Feed Pets Raw Food: Sep 15, 2007

Saturday, September 15, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12040

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Urgent about Pet treats!
From: Belinda van de Loo

2a. Re: Not Digesting Bone
From: Belinda van de Loo
2b. Re: Not Digesting Bone
From: Sandee Lee
2c. Re: Not Digesting Bone
From: carnesbill

3a. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucus
From: Yasuko herron
3b. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucus
From: tottime47
3c. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucus
From: Yasuko herron

4. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and m...
From: Morledzep@aol.com

5a. Re: lamb kidney (was: regurgitating)
From: Laurie Swanson

6a. Re: regurgitating
From: katkellm
6b. Re: regurgitating
From: steph.sorensen

7. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucus
From: Klayton Lapa

8. How to start a 6 year old on raw feed?
From: advocate_tears

9a. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
From: Howard Salob
9b. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
From: costrowski75

10a. new rescue -- has temp of 102
From: moemahood@aol.com
10b. Re: new rescue -- has temp of 102
From: Sandee Lee
10c. Re: new rescue -- has temp of 102
From: Belinda van de Loo
10d. Re: new rescue -- has temp of 102
From: Doguefan@aol.com
10e. Re: new rescue -- has temp of 102
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

11a. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
From: linoleum5017

12a. Tried to feed raw diet today.. NO LUCK
From: Jenn
12b. Re: Tried to feed raw diet today.. NO LUCK
From: Sandee Lee

13a. Re: update on Molly - she's home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: Trish

14a. ADMIN/Re: "Treats?"
From: costrowski75

Messages
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1. Urgent about Pet treats!
Posted by: "Belinda van de Loo" auntielindyloo@yahoo.com belindavandeloo
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:36 pm ((PDT))

Hello all,
I'm forwarding/reposting the message below concerning a critical
situation.
This afternoon I stopped by our local PetCo and found the "Chicken
Tenders" and, sure enough, they were made in China. I alerted the
store manager about them and mentioned the report below. He was
unaware but assured me he would contact the head office about this
product.
I couldn't help but have the feeling that if many of us did the same,
there would be fewer dogs suffering from these products. Therefore I
forward it and pass it on to each of you.
BTW, has anyone heard an update on Bella?

Greetings,
Belinda and "Honey" from Holland
--- In Earthdog_fanciers@yahoogroups.com, "Jan W" <jpw@...> wrote:
>
> As a rule, I do not normally forward mail, but this is important to
all dog owners.
>
> Jan in NS
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joan B Blackstaffe
> To: canadacairns
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 1:40 PM
> Subject: [CanadaCairns] FW: URGENT PET FOOD - BELLA IN THE HOSPITAL
>
>
>
> PLEASE READ AND SHARE THIS WITH ANYONE WHO HAS DOGS, ESPECIALLY
SMALL DOGS
> >>
> >>Bella, 3 years old, 4 pounds
> >>
> >>Product - Smoke House Chicken Breast Tenders Treats
> >>
> >>Bella became suddenly ill ,and now hospitalized with her life
threatened
> >>due to Smoke House Chicken Tenders.I recently purchased at Pet
Smart.
> It
> >>doesn't matter where you purchase them, just don't purchase them.
> >>
> >>This was the first time I bought the Smoke House treats. Having
> read the
>
> >>label, it was listed as all natural, no additives, dyes etc. The
treats
> >>were purchased on or about August 17. She loved them and I was
happy
> >>because she typically only likes one treat. By August 23 she
vomited
> >>bile, and again on August 24. Her personality began to change
becoming
> >>lethargic, wanting to stay in her bed, loss of appetite. excessive
> >>drinking, urinating frequently in excessive amounts. urine became
orange
> >>like in color. By August 28 she was severely dehydrated and lost
one of
> >>her three pounds.
> >>
> >>Sugar was found in her urine which would typically indicate
diabetes.
> >>Bella was put on IV and given an antibiotic to take while tests
were
> being
>
> >>done over Labor Day weekend.
> >>
> >>Test results showed "irregularity in the lower part of her kidney.
> >>Possibly a hole in the kidney because of the malfunction.
> >>
> >>By today Sept 7, she was no better and very low on energy and
> interest in
> >>being around anyone. I brought the package of Smoke House Chicken
> Tenders
>
> >>with me to the vet because it was the only thing that was
different
> in her
>
> >>diet.
> >>
> >>My wonderful vet, a graduate of Cornell University searched the
Cornell
> >>Veterinarian site where veterinarians report unusual cases which
are
> >>tracked. The search was done by symptoms. A second search by
chicken
> >>treats.
> >>
> >>There were numerous cases on the Cornell University Veterinarian
web
> site,
>
> >>all with the same symptoms, test results and yes, related to
chicken
> >>tender treats made in China. Never did it cross my mind that this
> product
>
> >>was made in China. When Dr. didn't find complete listing of
ingredients
> >>on the package he called the number listed on the back of the
package
> >>identifying himself and asked for ingredients to help understand
what
> was
> >>happening to my pet. The only thing the person on the phone with a
> >>strong Chinese accent was "all natural, all natural". Sure enough
> looking
>
> >>at the small print on the bottom back of the package is "product
of
> >>China", the same source of other products that have been killing
our
> pets.
>
> >>I sat beside my vet and read along with him. Following are primary
> >>repeated findings;
> >>
> >>-severe damage to the kidney often resulting in complete renal
> failure and
>
> >>death
> >>-numerous reports in the past four to five weeks, a larger number
on the
> >>East Coast
> >>- chicken and beef treats promoted as all natural
> >>-it does not matter what the label is, if it is a product of China
> >>-if caught early enough, hospitalized on IV hydrating and
flushing the
> >>kidney over days with nutrients may help the kidney heal itself
and the
> >>pet could then live with the damaged kidney
> >>-if not caught early complete renal failure is expected
> >>-most cases reported are related to small dogs
> >>-initial symptoms indicate diabetes
> >>-mold is often found when flushing the kidney (found in Bella)
> >>
> >>I have been in touch with Pet Smart requesting them to help get
the
> >>ingredients. Time is lost analyzing the food. Today a vet at
Cornell
> >>purchased a bag after reading the report my Vet posted on Bella.
He
> then
> >>contacted my vet to say the bag he bought had mold in it despite
an
> >>expiration date one year from now. I was asked to look closely at
> >>whatever was left in my bag, but saw none.
> >>
> >>After Bella was admitted to the vet I went directly to Pet Smart
in
> Nanuet
>
> >>NY, told the Manager what happened and asked her to assist
getting the
> >>ingredients identified. I was met with a hostile attitude. She
was
> only
> >>interested in getting my name because she felt I was going to
file a
> >>complaint. The person at PS headquarters responsible for knowing
food
> >>ingredients at Pet Smart headquarters is trying to help.
> >>
> >>The information available to vets on the Cornell web site is not
public
> >>information. No one seems to be aware of this. Dogs are
misdiagnosed
> >>
> >>PLEASE SEND THIS ON TO YOUR PET LOVING FRIENDS AND SAVE A PET AND
> LOTS OF
> >>HEARTACHE.
> >>
> >>PLEASE POST THIS INFORMATION ON ANY WEB SITE YOU CAN CONCERNING
PETS.
> >>
> >>Allan and I are hoping and praying.
> >>
> >>View full sizeSmoke House Chicken Breast Tenders.
> >>
> >>
> >>View full sizeSmoke House Chicken Breast Tenders. Chicken on the
> right and
>
> >>left side are from a bag I bought today. All but one bag on the
shelf
> >>which was light in color were the deeper color. The center pieces
are
> >>from the bag Bella ate from. Because of the difference in color I
asked
> >>Pet Smart what the difference was. Were there dyes added? The
response
> >>was "it's all natural chicken so that's why the difference in
> shades". I
> >>pointed out that every single package was the deep color, except
the one
> >>left from the same batch I bought.
> >>
> >>
> >>I hope we have better news to tell you soon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jan, thanks for forwarding that email about the Smokehouse Chicken
tenders. I nearly bought some of those from PetCo a few weeks ago but
then thought they'd probably been super-processed to be hanging in a
bag in a store like that. However, I did then start dehydrating
chicken breasts for my pups at home - they love them. But, I am
POSITIVE mine are organic and natural with no additives. Not so, the
ones hanging in the store.
I just may pop over to PetCo today or tomorrow to inform them about
this product. The headquarters of these PetCo and PetSmart stores may
not respond, but it's worth a try for us to deal with it individually,
store by store.

Blessings,
Belinda and "Honey" from Holland

Messages in this topic (1)
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2a. Re: Not Digesting Bone
Posted by: "Belinda van de Loo" auntielindyloo@yahoo.com belindavandeloo
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:36 pm ((PDT))

Hi Roxanne,
Same situation with my Westie...
I only give him the smallest part of the wings now or chicken necks.
If I give him a bigger bone - be it rib, chicken leg, etc. I attach a
vice grip to one end which forces him to break off and crush the bone
more thoroughly.
Either that or I order raw ground whole carcass from Hare-Today.com
Blessings,
Belinda and "Honey" from Holland

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Not Digesting Bone
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:10 pm ((PDT))

Roxane,

It is not unusual for a dog new to raw to not digest all of the bone. You
might want to either smash the bone with a mallet...or feed less bone.
Chicken breasts might be a good starter for him....lots of meat with soft
easily digestible bones.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Roxane" <roxanegraham@yahoo.com>

I have a pug with irritable bowel syndrome that I have just started to
raw feed. He chews off the biggest pieces possible and swallows them. I
have been feeding chicken leg quarters. He has chewed off a couple of
good size chunks of bone and swallowed them, he just literaly pooped
out a bone so he is not digesting the bone. So this worrys me. Any
thoughts about this? Thanks Roxane

Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: Not Digesting Bone
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:26 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Roxane" <roxanegraham@...> wrote:
>
> He chews off the biggest pieces possible and swallows them.

He's digesting bone, just not completely ... yet. As your dog eats
more and more meat, bones, and organs, his digestive juices will
reach a natural acidic level and all the bones will digest. It's
common for newly switched dogs to poop out some bone fragments and
even to vomit some bone fragments. This will happen less and less
as time goes by.

Don't think of your dogs chewing in the same terms as human
chewing. Humans(omnivores) chew food into a mush before
swallowing. Our saliva contains amylaze which is a digestive juice
so digestion begins in the mouth while we are chewing. Dogs, on the
other hand, merely crunch up food small enough to fit down their
throat and then they swallow large chunks. Digestion for a dog
begins in the stomach. No digestive juices in dog's saliva.
Chewing for a dog is a completely different process than human
chewing.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucus
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:36 pm ((PDT))

I for got to add this;she ate morning meal at 8:30am,and vomitted at 4pm.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucus
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:27 pm ((PDT))

Hi Yassy,

Sorry to hear Palette is under the weather.......I don't think it
would hurt her to try and make up the slippery elm balls that Giselle
recommends and give them to her. If it is viral then it will help to
coat her tummy and bowls. Other than that I wouldn't give her
anything but broth and water for the day, give her tummy a
rest........
As someone said if she keeps throwing up, then a visit to the vet is
in order........

Hope she's better soon..........

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> Hi. I have just found my dog vomit 5 spots
>
> I know that if there were bits of bone,it means,too much bone in
one sitting right?
>
> Greyish brownish liquid is telling you any??
>
> It is not from butt but from mouth with chunk of meat and bone.
>
> I am thinking she got rid of most of all meal she had this
morning.

> No idea what is causing this.
>
> Shedid vomitted this morning before feeding,but yellow bile which
I know because hungry.
>
> I did not fast her and just fed because it is just hungry sign. I
do not feed on exactly same time,but today,she did vomitted up
bile,and now this.
>
> Any suggestionswill be appreciated.
>
> I took her out again and she gave water out from butt so,i think
sheseems having butt prob too.
>
> yassy

Messages in this topic (6)
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3c. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucus
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:15 pm ((PDT))

>Sorry to hear Palette is under the weather.....

Hi,everyone.Thank you for your kinds words for palette.

So, your thoughts are either virus,or blockage or just tummy got irritated?

First off,I do not think rib was too bony because it got about 2 inch of meat on top of bone,and she did not have prob before,but not sure why she had prob this time.

For virus,I do not know.Well,last night,it was heavy rain when I took her to potty before bed and she got wet. I did dried her fur with my hair dryer and,let her go to bed,but this morning,she was active as usual except she vomited yellowish bile according to my husband (I was in shower so,did notget to see it).

I interpreted as hungry so,I fed as usual after yellow bile this morning.

New thing we did other than food,I did not feel good due woman thing,and my husband took Palette for walk yestreday morning after he comes home in the morning.

He took her to different road than mine and she seemed sniffing places(road) like crazy.

She could catch virus by sniffing on walk??

She was acting as usual yesterday whole time.this morning to 4pm.She as usual woofing when dog passes,and when I said "Let's go check mail",she got excited and took me to mail box with full run.

Funny thing is that,both vomitting happen after my husband pet her. I know that petting is not all that great after 1hour or so from eating meal,but vomitting was before morning meal and after 7 hour from meal. I do not understand. Petting and vomitting related?

Right after palette vomitted large amount of vomit,she never show interests in re-eating,no interest in drinking water,no interests in getting frozen yogurt cube I give as cool down treats after walk in general (she usually drool onto floor but this time,no interests at all.I just wanted to give her some liquid but no go).

I thought that she did probably 1tbs worth of water out with tiny bit of mucus from butt,so, I thought she would probably get diarrhea after that,but does not look like that. She did not do gooey poo or anything.

So,I think she does not have butt prob now. Poo itself i picked up inside the house was solid,and did not leave any brown spots on carpet.

It just that make me surprise of how much amount of vomit she did..never saw it before.She did vomit only once with Turkey but,she re-ate it.And vomitting was no big deal to me,and I thought that I could be calm but this.. not really because never seen such big amount..with under the weather palette.

At this moment, she looks tired a bit,but now showed interests in water to drink so,she drank that and she showed interests in what human is eating and stand up with paw on my lap and checked on my plate,and she is more responding to our calling of her name almost spontaneously like usual not like at 4pm,when she did not like to move much although her eye stare at you and look like she is listening.And,she is moving around bit.My husband brought left-over pizza to living room,and she soon went to his place and showing how pretty she can sit.She is looking herself now.

So,I think, she feels better than 4pm.

I know that I am bit behind reading posts but, did not recognise the post others talked about;same vomit color andthedog turned out to have virus.. I think I try search on archive as well and read about it. I may have missed reading or not reading it yet.

So,when blockage happen, dog vomits too? At least,she did poo when she did vomit because we saw they were sitting next each other:-<

My husband said it could be that she got cold or something and not foodrelated,not sure,but we will keep an eye on her,and if it persists,we go to vet.

Thank you everyone.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (6)
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4. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and m...
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:57 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/15/2007 12:33:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com writes:

Was it too much fat because Idid not trim fat??? Anyway,she is looking not
feeling good.

I took her out again and she gave water out from butt so,i think sheseems
having butt prob too.

Yassy,

calm down.. relax. Put the pork you're planning to feed her back in the
fridge.. or even the freezer. DO NOT feed her any more today. Offer small
amounts of water ONLY every couple hours..

IF this continues for more than 24 hours get her to the vet ASAP..

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: lamb kidney (was: regurgitating)
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:10 pm ((PDT))

Hi Vickie,

I think my dog wasn't too excited about lamb kidney the first time.
The smell and texture are probably different than anything they've
eaten before. My dog kind of curled up his lip and licked it and
didn't eat it right away, but finally did eat it after the rest of
his meal. I would just keep trying it--maybe hand feed it so they
know for sure it's food, or slice into it or cut it up. If none of
those work, you could try also adding a bit of parmesan to it or
searing it a bit on the outside. It might just take a couple tries,
though. Some others will also give only that and once that's eaten,
they get the rest of the meal. Depends how long they hold out and
how bad you want them to eat it.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Vickie" <dals4creekside@...>
wrote:

Also I fed some lamb kidney today and both dogs left
> that laying and wouldn't touch it. Any idea on this?

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: regurgitating
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:11 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Vickie" <dals4creekside@...> wrote:
Usually its lamb. She doesn't seem to
> have a problem when I give lamb without any bone, but when there is
> bone with the lamb she seems to puke it up.

Hi Vickie,
I would guess that, because the lamb is probably the fattiest meat you
are feeding, her digestive juices have a hard time breaking down both
the fat and the bone in the meal, so the tummy gets rid of the bone
that isn't moving along fast enough. Since you didn't say what piece
of lamb you were feeding, it could also be that there is just more
bone than she is use to eating. Aside from the clean up mess, been
there and scrubbed up that, i wouldn't worry about it and would guess
she'll be able to eat it in time. KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
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6b. Re: regurgitating
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:26 pm ((PDT))

Vickie,

I just got to experience this first-hand yesterday afternoon - I fed
the girls a half chicken apiece. Lucy ate hers first, then promptly
threw up the entire contents of her meal immediately after being given
a small piece of beef liver. She re-ate the entire meal again with no
further recurrence of tummy issues.

I have heard that sometimes they do this. If it isn't sitting right or
needs to be chewed more, they will regurge. I have been told this is
normal, so I wouldn't worry unless their behavior changes markedly
after eating or their is blood in the regurged contents.

Pretty gross, but for some reason, watching my own dogs puke doesn't
really bother me. They're like my children!

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Vickie" <dals4creekside@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a problem with their dog occasionally regurgitating
> meals? My one dog will go along just fine, but about once a week and
a
> half will regurgitate a meal. Usually its lamb. She doesn't seem to
> have a problem when I give lamb without any bone, but when there is
> bone with the lamb she seems to puke it up. She has no problem with
> chicken, or pork. Also I fed some lamb kidney today and both dogs
left
> that laying and wouldn't touch it. Any idea on this?
> Thanks
> Vickie
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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7. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucus
Posted by: "Klayton Lapa" klaynkolt@hotmail.com klaynkolt85220
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:11 pm ((PDT))

We had a dog a couple months ago who you descripted his episode almost to
the T. Same color and consistence. We let his tummy rest a day or two
until he showed interest in food, and slowly put him back on his food.
Think it was a viral thing. Can not remember if anyone else picked it up.
Kelly

Messages in this topic (1)
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8. How to start a 6 year old on raw feed?
Posted by: "advocate_tears" carole.m@telus.net advocate_tears
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:42 pm ((PDT))

I did try to feed my dog raw meat and bones when he was a pup (about 8
months old) but he didn't like it. We are vegetarians so after trying
for a coupke of weeks we quit it. I was buying the meat for my dog only
and it was all going to waste. I tried chicken and ground beef.
He has been on what I consider a better commercial food (Fromms) since
then. 10 months ago we acquired a cat and in the process I changed my
dog's food to Orijen (becasue the cat liked the Orijen cat food better)
anyway... now he is having problems - liver enzyme count(AP)is high,
weight gain, less energy, and has had eye and ear infections. A friend
said to try the raw food diet but I am not sure how to start.
Can you please share your tips and tricks with me and my dog?

Carole

Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:25 pm ((PDT))

Dear Chris O,

My experience is that the most finicky dogs cannot resist green tripe. It is like candy to them, but it is good for them. Other sources besides my experience are www.dogaware.com and www.greentripe.com. I do not sell it, but I buy it every week and think it is a miracle since it made a humongous difference for my dog. I think it helped her immensely.

Sincerely,'

Howard

costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote:
Howard Salob <itiskismet1968@...> wrote:
>
> try giving green tripe.
*****
How will that help?
Chris O

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (8)
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9b. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:33 pm ((PDT))

Dave Brown <quahog@...> wrote:
>
> Green tripe (i.e. unbleached, lightly washed) is the filet mignon of
> organ meats.
*****
Well maybe not. And it's hardly an organ meat. No question that a
reliable bingo treat is a major score but I don't see the connection
between eating green tripe and eating whole raw foods. Are you saying
that green tripe will convince a reluctant dog to eat whole raw meats,
or are you simply suggesting green tripe as an alternative to not
eating anything?

Perhaps I am simply (and yet again) confused.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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10a. new rescue -- has temp of 102
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:01 pm ((PDT))

So I got?a new foster today.? She is a little bearded collie mix -- cute as can be with blonde hair and real dark soulful eyes (behind her bangs...). pictures will come tomorrow.

Anyway she has a temp of 102 and everyone is screaming URI! but there are no sypmptoms -- no nasal discharge, no coughing, nothing.....? she ate about a lb of ground deer and beef mixture with some powdered supps (animal essentials herbal multi-vitamin).?

I think that it may be a urinary tract infection as she seems to pee a little more than usual.?

Other than her being underweight and just getting over a flea infestation, and icky tartar, gingivitus teeth there aren't too many other sypmtoms.? Oh and she is whiney and nervous but that is to be expected -- but she did sleep this afternoon and she is laying quietly in her kennel right now.....

Any ideas?

?Maureen G Mahood

Messages in this topic (5)
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10b. Re: new rescue -- has temp of 102
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:14 pm ((PDT))

I don't see any problem here...102 is normal for a canine. Let the girl
adjust to her new home...sounds like she's been through a lot!
And get her some nice whole chicken parts to clean those teeth.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <moemahood@aol.com>

>
> Anyway she has a temp of 102 and everyone is screaming URI! but there are
no sypmptoms -- no nasal discharge, no coughing, nothing.....? she ate about
a lb of ground deer and beef mixture with some powdered supps (animal
essentials herbal multi-vitamin).?
>
> I think that it may be a urinary tract infection as she seems to pee a
little more than usual.?
>
> Other than her being underweight and just getting over a flea infestation,
and icky tartar, gingivitus teeth there aren't too many other sypmtoms.? Oh
and she is whiney and nervous but that is to be expected -- but she did
sleep this afternoon and she is laying quietly in her kennel right now.....

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

10c. Re: new rescue -- has temp of 102
Posted by: "Belinda van de Loo" auntielindyloo@yahoo.com belindavandeloo
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:27 pm ((PDT))

A temp of up to 102 is normal for dogs.
Blessings,
Belinda and "Honey" from Holland

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

10d. Re: new rescue -- has temp of 102
Posted by: "Doguefan@aol.com" Doguefan@aol.com knoxkennels
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:18 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

I agree with Sandee, she just sounds a little stressed, but 102 is pretty normal then.? Make sure you also de-worm her a couple times because of the flea infestation.? Maybe try D-earth.

Bless you for taking her in.? :)

Chelsea

-----Original Message-----
From: Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 8:12 pm
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] new rescue -- has temp of 102

I don't see any problem here...102 is normal for a canine. Let the girl
adjust to her new home...sounds like she's been through a lot!
And get her some nice whole chicken parts to clean those teeth.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <moemahood@aol.com>

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

10e. Re: new rescue -- has temp of 102
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:21 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Why on earth is "everyone" screaming URI? A temp of 102 is normal, hence no temp.:) Your dog sounds fine unless there is something else you have left out. She is a rescue with a life she can't tell us about, so she is going to have to adjust to her new surroundings, give her some time, she seems like she needs a little space, give her some, and let her come to you, she will, and give her lots of chicken, she sounds like she needs a few more pounds:)
Thanks for being the blessed one who saved her from a life she is better off without, you are her godsend.
Jeni

----- Original Message ----
From: "moemahood@aol.com" <moemahood@aol.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 5:47:07 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] new rescue -- has temp of 102

So I got?a new foster today.? She is a little bearded collie mix -- cute as can be with blonde hair and real dark soulful eyes (behind her bangs...). pictures will come tomorrow.

Anyway she has a temp of 102 and everyone is screaming URI! but there are no sypmptoms -- no nasal discharge, no coughing, nothing..... ? she ate about a lb of ground deer and beef mixture with some powdered supps (animal essentials herbal multi-vitamin) .?

I think that it may be a urinary tract infection as she seems to pee a little more than usual.?

Any ideas?

?Maureen G Mahood

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:17 pm ((PDT))

Beth,

Glad to hear your heeler is doing well. One day you'll look back at
all this, (like the rest of us have,) and say, 'Gee, I didn't need to
be so worried...." Your love for your dogs shows through in your
concern. What carries us through in the end is realizing the menu
is 'God-designed,' and ultimately, the results speak for themselves.

>I feed alot of chicken of course and some boneless cuts like ground
> turkey and beef cuts without bones. What beef can I feed with bones?

I'm in agreement w/Sandee and the gang, that beef bones overall are
not ideal, though ribs are the least potentially harmful.

> He is fairly big but can't small bones still get stuck if not
chewed?
***
Well, the raw bones are fairly soft, so that makes them ideal for dog
digestion.

>What kinds of RMB's do you most recommend?
***
My rule of paw is that if a dog (or dog pack) could down an animal, it
is safe to leave them to the bones. Cattle, bison, giant-type
animals, are not really in this category, so the weight-bearing bones
of them are not ideal. Regarding their meat, however, it is
conceivable to be 'stolen' from larger predators in the wild. In this
case, once the big bones are cleaned by my dog, I remove them, and
treat him with a piece of rawmeat that he prefers.

If you read more from this list, more will become clear.

It turns out to be fairly simple, thankfully,
Lynne

Messages in this topic (9)
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________________________________________________________________________

12a. Tried to feed raw diet today.. NO LUCK
Posted by: "Jenn" jamyers@swampfoxpc.com rdnckgrl83
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:17 pm ((PDT))

I tried to start my 4 yr old rottie and 1 yr old cat off on the raw
diet today with no luck. We completely pulled up all kibble so my poor
dog is probaly starving. LOL. We tried to give her pigs feet to chew
on and eat with no luck from either the cat or dog. They showed
absolutely no interest. We also gave them 1 oz for the dog and 1/2 oz
for the cat of liver with ABSOLUTELY no luck. I gave in and fed them 1
boneless skinless chicken breast which the dog ate with seemingly no
problem. Any Suggestions? I am trying here with no luck.

Jenn Myers

Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: Tried to feed raw diet today.. NO LUCK
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:28 pm ((PDT))

A pig's foot and liver? I can see why they wouldn't go for it! :))

A chicken breast would be a more feasible beginning...with skin and bone.
And be sure the cat eats something even if it's kibble. You cannot let a
cat go without food in order to get them interested.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Jenn" <jamyers@swampfoxpc.com>

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. Re: update on Molly - she's home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: "Trish" trishwelham@hotmail.com trishwelham
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:19 pm ((PDT))

I just wanted to give an update that Molly came home this morning. It
was such a close call. Had she not been well enough for them to let
her come home today I don't want to think what would've happened. I
really didn't think I'd ever see her in our home again. The vet and
other specialists he spoke to are amazed that she recovered. They also
knocked $500 off our bill b/c they saw how dedicated we were to seeing
her through this illness. We are so grateful.

She is on a prescription diet, which I know you all probably don't
agree with, but right now we are so on edge I think if the vet asked
us to dance a hula while she was eating we would do it.

I still would appreciate hearing any success stories of recovery from
extreme cases of pancreatitis.

Happy to be tripping over Molly again, Trish

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14a. ADMIN/Re: "Treats?"
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:26 pm ((PDT))

Just a reminder that treat recipes and other how-to discussions are not
appropriate for the Rawfeeding list. Please post all recipes on
RawChat. The "what" and "why" of treats can be discussed on Rawfeeding
as needed. Thanks.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12039

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. cairn puppy won't eat raw
From: one_sojourner_one
1b. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
From: Howard Salob
1c. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
From: costrowski75
1d. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
From: Sandee Lee
1e. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
From: Dave Brown
1f. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
From: Dave Brown

2a. Re: Ostrich Egg
From: merril Woolf

3a. is all Tripe the same?
From: Marcella Burgess
3b. Re: is all Tripe the same?
From: Sandee Lee
3c. Re: is all Tripe the same?
From: Marcella Burgess
3d. Re: is all Tripe the same?
From: Sandee Lee

4a. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
From: rosielefty
4b. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
From: rosielefty
4c. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
From: Yasuko herron
4d. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
From: Yasuko herron
4e. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
From: Sandee Lee

5a. Re: anal sacs?
From: K Carolyn Ramamurti
5b. Re: anal sacs?
From: Yasuko herron

6. regurgitating
From: Vickie

7. Not Digesting Bone
From: Roxane

8a. Re: raw vs. cooked / other newbie questions
From: darkstardog

9a. Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucusy po
From: Yasuko herron
9b. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucus
From: Casey Post
9c. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucus
From: Belinda van de Loo

10a. Re: "Treats?"
From: eyed_blue

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. cairn puppy won't eat raw
Posted by: "one_sojourner_one" onesojourner@gmail.com one_sojourner_one
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:43 am ((PDT))

I think we have the pickiest dog ever and that's part of the reason we wanted to try a raw diet. Our cairn is just over 4 months old. We have been trying to feed him canidae and it has been hit and miss. Tonight I thawed him a small chicken breast to see if he would eat it. First he sat there and licked at it in the bowl. He then picked it up and ran into the yard with it for some more licking. I ripped a small bite size piece off for him but he just dropped it. Finally he took the meat to a corner and buried it. He has done the same thing with a small cooked piece of steak. I have read about sprinkling with garlic but thats just going to make him lick it some more. any thoughts?

-peter

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:01 am ((PDT))

Dear one sojourner one,

try giving green tripe.

sincerely,

Howard

one_sojourner_one <onesojourner@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we have the pickiest dog ever and that's part of the reason we wanted to try a raw diet. Our cairn is just over 4 months old. We have been trying to feed him canidae and it has been hit and miss. Tonight I thawed him a small chicken breast to see if he would eat it. First he sat there and licked at it in the bowl. He then picked it up and ran into the yard with it for some more licking. I ripped a small bite size piece off for him but he just dropped it. Finally he took the meat to a corner and buried it. He has done the same thing with a small cooked piece of steak. I have read about sprinkling with garlic but thats just going to make him lick it some more. any thoughts?

-peter

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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1c. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:51 am ((PDT))

Howard Salob <itiskismet1968@...> wrote:
>
> try giving green tripe.
*****
How will that help?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:43 am ((PDT))

Peter,

Try warming it up, slice into it in a few spots and smash some Parmesan
cheese down into the slices! You might have to try it a couple of times but
should work.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "one_sojourner_one" <onesojourner@gmail.com>

I think we have the pickiest dog ever and that's part of the reason we
wanted to try a raw diet. Our cairn is just over 4 months old. We have been
trying to feed him canidae and it has been hit and miss. Tonight I thawed
him a small chicken breast to see if he would eat it. First he sat there and
licked at it in the bowl. He then picked it up and ran into the yard with it
for some more licking. I ripped a small bite size piece off for him but he
just dropped it. Finally he took the meat to a corner and buried it. He has
done the same thing with a small cooked piece of steak. I have read about
sprinkling with garlic but thats just going to make him lick it some more.
any thoughts?

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1e. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
Posted by: "Dave Brown" quahog@netnet.net quahogwi
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:55 am ((PDT))

You may want to try a little hamburger for starters. Just because
it's chicken and it's raw doesn't mean that they're going to like
it. Alternatively, you may want to try dicing some of the raw
chicken so that the pieces are too small to be buried and they may
stick to his tongue. Leave it down for about 15 minutes and then
pick up the bowl and put it away. Bring it out at the next
feeding. No snacks or treats in between. Also, it may be that you
Cairn doesn't like the coldness. Maybe try warming it a bit to
nearer room temp.

I'm no expert, but this is what I'd do.

David G. Brown
Green Bay, WI

At 08:23 AM 9/15/2007, you wrote:
>I think we have the pickiest dog ever and that's part of the reason
>we wanted to try a raw diet. Our cairn is just over 4 months old. We
>have been trying to feed him canidae and it has been hit and miss.
>Tonight I thawed him a small chicken breast to see if he would eat
>it. First he sat there and licked at it in the bowl. He then picked
>it up and ran into the yard with it for some more licking. I ripped
>a small bite size piece off for him but he just dropped it. Finally
>he took the meat to a corner and buried it. He has done the same
>thing with a small cooked piece of steak. I have read about
>sprinkling with garlic but thats just going to make him lick it some
>more. any thoughts?
>.
>-peter

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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1f. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
Posted by: "Dave Brown" quahog@netnet.net quahogwi
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:56 am ((PDT))

Green tripe (i.e. unbleached, lightly washed) is the filet mignon of
organ meats. You can even get freeze dried green tripe. I think of
it as THE special treat for the hard to train or for the jackpot
treat after a particularly busy training session. One taste of tripe
and it is the rare, and I do mean RARE, dog who will spit it out.

David G. Brown
Green Bay, WI

At 10:51 AM 9/15/2007, you wrote:

>Howard Salob <itiskismet1968@...> wrote:
> >
> > try giving green tripe.
>*****
>How will that help?
>Chris O

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Ostrich Egg
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:06 am ((PDT))

>
> Anyway, you got a good deal and hope your guys enjoy it. I often feed un-hatched
ostrich
> eggs and they are definitely on the weird list of feeding items. The hatched version would
> be so much nicer to try though.
>
> Merril
>

OK, in case you were wondering, that would be UN-laid ostrich eggs, not un-hatched.

Sheesh,

Merril

Messages in this topic (17)
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3a. is all Tripe the same?
Posted by: "Marcella Burgess" proudfootkennels@sympatico.ca marciongrass
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:04 am ((PDT))

We recently purchased some tripe from the local abbatoir, but when I mentioned to him about Green Tripe... he looked at me as though I was off my rocker!
The tripe that my husband brought home is not Green in color and I am wondering if this is still the same thing or are there different sorts of tripe?

Marcella

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: is all Tripe the same?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:46 am ((PDT))

Green tripe refers to unprocessed, uncleaned tripe. It could be green,
black, etc....usually there are bits of green stomach contents adhering to
it. For some nice pictures, visit Kevin's recipes. That tripe was fresh
out of the cow...still warm...Yumm....

http://www.RawFedDogs.net/

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Marcella Burgess" <proudfootkennels@sympatico.ca>

> We recently purchased some tripe from the local abbatoir, but when I
mentioned to him about Green Tripe... he looked at me as though I was off my
rocker!
> The tripe that my husband brought home is not Green in color and I am
wondering if this is still the same thing or are there different sorts of
tripe?

Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: is all Tripe the same?
Posted by: "Marcella Burgess" proudfootkennels@sympatico.ca marciongrass
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:55 am ((PDT))

yup.. that's exactly what my husband picked up... he brought it into the house and my girls (dogs) were all over him instantly.
as for the color.... welll... it's definately what you described....
so then my next question would be.. is that given the same way that any other meat is given or should I be more restrictive and give less?

Marcella

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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3d. Re: is all Tripe the same?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:29 am ((PDT))

That depends on your dogs. I feed entire meals of tripe but my dogs have
been eating raw for many years and if they do end up with soft stools, I'm
not alarmed! If your dogs are new to raw you might want to begin with a
small portion, just like you would introduce any new meat.

Have fun! :)) I love watching my dogs eat tripe...that's the one thing
they pick up and shake like they are going in for the kill! I learned early
on to stand up quickly after I hand it out!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Marcella Burgess" <proudfootkennels@sympatico.ca>

> yup.. that's exactly what my husband picked up... he brought it into the
house and my girls (dogs) were all over him instantly.
> as for the color.... welll... it's definately what you described....
> so then my next question would be.. is that given the same way that any
other meat is given or should I be more restrictive and give less?

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
Posted by: "rosielefty" rosielefty@yahoo.com rosielefty
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:55 am ((PDT))

*** Mod Note: please trim your posts! ***

My 9 yr old 60lb heeler Lefty has the issues. I feed alot of chicken
but I make sure to feed some boneless cuts several days a week. They
are usually turkey or beef. Lefy has since had a normal poop and
seems brighter. I was concerned because he swallowed three small rib
bones whole. Thanks again, Beth
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> What exactly are you feeding and which dog has the problem?
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "rosielefty" <rosielefty@...>
> I am new to the site. I read a lot of your messages and read
about
> raw feeding on the internet. I also bought "Raw Dog Food Make It
Easy
> For You and Your Dog" by Carina Beth MacDonal. So I don't know
enough
> yet I am sure. Anyway, I have two Cattle dogs. One is 9 yrs and
one is
> 5 yrs. I have been raw feeding for about four weeks and it has
been
> rocky. First she didn't want to eat and now possible constipation
with
> the 5 yr old. The 9 yr old has allergies to everything and he is
the
> reason I began raw feeding. He likes the meat but has had loose
> stools, gas, burping and now very loose stools with very small
firmer
> peices at the end. I did a really stupid thing. I wasn't sure
which
> bones were okay and I fed some beef ribs with 1 inch bones. He ate
> about three of the bones and now I am very afraid one may be
stuck. He
> eats some but not enthusiastically. He vomited two nights ago but
not
> since. Does anyone have any input? Thanks in advance, Beth
>

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
Posted by: "rosielefty" rosielefty@yahoo.com rosielefty
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:04 am ((PDT))

Hi Lynne,
Lefty is my 9yr old 60lb heeler. He has since had a normal bowel
movement and seems brighter. He swallowed 3 small rib bones whole so
I was concerned. He is fairly big but can't small bones still get
stuck if not chewed? What kinds of RMB's do you most recommend? I
feed alot of chicken of course and some boneless cuts like ground
turkey and beef cuts without bones. What beef can I feed with bones?
Thanks for your help this can be a little scarey at
first. Beth
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "linoleum5017" <linoleum5017@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rosielefty" <rosielefty@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> > I am new to the site. First she didn't want to eat and now
> possible constipation with the 5 yr old.
>
> ***
> Hi, Beth,
>
> Possibly too much bone in this one's diet. Much like the rest of
us,
> some need more 'thickening' than others!
>
> The 9 yr old has allergies to everything and he is the reason I
began
> raw feeding. He likes the meat but has had loose stools, gas,
burping
> and now very loose stools with very small firmer peices at the end.
> ****
> Sounds like this one's system might benefit from more bone.
Remember,
> increased bone produces increased stool firmness. Still, like us,
> expect varied stools, depending on what is consumed.
>
>
> I did a really stupid thing. I wasn't sure which bones were okay
and
> I fed some beef ribs with 1 inch bones. He ate about three of the
> bones and now I am very afraid one may be stuck. He eats some but
not
> enthusiastically. He vomited two nights ago but not since. Does
> anyone have any input?
>
> ***
> Need more info, please. What size dog is the 9-year old? Larger
dogs
> are able to handle larger bones. Ribs are not 'weight-bearing,' so
> may fall in the realm of edible bones for your dog, depending on
his
> size. Vomiting and lack of appetite may not be 'bad things,'
> necessarily, coupled with other behaviors. How much is your 9-yr.
old
> eating, since he last consumed the ribs? And what is his allergy
> history?
>
> If the lack of appetite lasts more than 4 or 5 days, it might be
> worthwile to go to the vet. Stlll, it would help if you gave more
> info.
>
> Thanks,
> Lynne
>

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:12 am ((PDT))

>My 9 yr old 60lb heeler Lefty has the issues. I feed alot of chicken

Hi. How do you feed chicken? if you feed parts by parts such as you feed couple of wings in meal etc,then,it is like tempting your dog to swallow whole.

Are you feeding cutted portion from whole chicken?

As for chicken or Turkey,feeding that way would be better,That would reduce the risk of swallowing too big piece in one swallow.

My dog once did mis-judged the size of bone she chould swallow after some crunch and,she hoaked the bone up,and re-ate it with more crunching. Sometimes,dog can take care by themselves,but feeding bigger is better than inviting incident by feeding small.

> They are usually turkey or beef. Lefy has since had a normal poop and
>seems brighter.

poo color changes depending on what you gave to them. If you gave carrot and cucamber for example (although we do not feed veggie),you would have orange and green colored mixed poo,I am guessing.

My dog tends to have yellowish brown poo from poultry,but Beef gives mahagoney colored poo. After Heart meal,it gets bit darker softer poo. Poo color can relate to waht you feed.

> I was concerned because he swallowed three small rib bones whole.

Are you talking about Beef ribs? Poultry breast area with rib bones?

My suggestion is that,feed bigger,and know that the poo changes its color and firmness depending on what you feed to dog,and they are not human so,they do not chew like us and couple of crunching and swallolw ifthey think they can swallow.

I would not worry now if yourdog seems happy active as usual but try feed bigger.

yassy

---------------------------------
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

4d. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:23 am ((PDT))

> What kinds of RMB's do you most recommend?

This is just me but..

<Turkey>
Whole

<chicken>
Whole
feet (treat)

<Beef>
Short Ribs (it is much meatier than back ribs,and my dog eat all bone;corgi)
Neck with added boneless meat

Heart
Tongue
Boneless Beef meat
Cheek meat

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (8)
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4e. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:56 am ((PDT))

Beth,

Dogs don't need to chew. If it fits down the throat, it is fair game. Beef
bones are hard and most are not edible. Just feed beef meaty meals and get
your bone content (which is only about 10% of the overall diet) from
chicken, turkey, pork, goat, lamb, fish, etc.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "rosielefty" <rosielefty@yahoo.com>

Lefty is my 9yr old 60lb heeler. He has since had a normal bowel
movement and seems brighter. He swallowed 3 small rib bones whole so
I was concerned. He is fairly big but can't small bones still get
stuck if not chewed? What kinds of RMB's do you most recommend? I
feed alot of chicken of course and some boneless cuts like ground
turkey and beef cuts without bones. What beef can I feed with bones?

Messages in this topic (8)
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5a. Re: anal sacs?
Posted by: "K Carolyn Ramamurti" lilith23360@yahoo.com lilith23360
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:04 am ((PDT))

My family has kept dachsunds all my life, and my understanding is that calcifications in the anal sacs, requiring expression, is specific to the breed. All my previous dachsunds have had to have this procedure done, from time to timie. I have two mini doxies I'm raw-feeding now, and one went to the vet to have her anal sacs expressed yesterday.

Raw feeding is best and resolves many health issues, but not all of them!

Carolyn Ramamurti in Seattle

Laurie Swanson <laurie@mckinneyphoto.com> wrote:
My dog used to scoot his butt on the carpet every so often and had his
anal sacs expressed once by the vet. The problem wasn't bad enough for
me to worry about treating it too much and I really didn't like the
idea of having them expressed, but I noticed it went away after I
removed the veggies from his diet. I used to feed ground raw meat and
pureed veggies. Since going to prey model and getting rid of veggies
about a year ago, the scooting stopped.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "johkemp" <johkemp@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone's raw fed dog have these problems?
>

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Messages in this topic (14)
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5b. Re: anal sacs?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:25 am ((PDT))

> I have two mini doxies I'm raw-feeding now, and one went to the vet to have her anal sacs >expressed yesterday

Hi. I thought that since dog gets firmer poo with rawfeeding unlike kibble poo which is mushy,dog rarely have anal sac expression needed at vet or groomers.

I do not remeber where I read it but I remember I read it.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (14)
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6. regurgitating
Posted by: "Vickie" dals4creekside@comcast.net vivkie
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:19 pm ((PDT))

Does anyone have a problem with their dog occasionally regurgitating
meals? My one dog will go along just fine, but about once a week and a
half will regurgitate a meal. Usually its lamb. She doesn't seem to
have a problem when I give lamb without any bone, but when there is
bone with the lamb she seems to puke it up. She has no problem with
chicken, or pork. Also I fed some lamb kidney today and both dogs left
that laying and wouldn't touch it. Any idea on this?
Thanks
Vickie

Messages in this topic (1)
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7. Not Digesting Bone
Posted by: "Roxane" roxanegraham@yahoo.com roxanegraham
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:13 pm ((PDT))

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Re: raw vs. cooked / other newbie questions
Posted by: "darkstardog" darkstardog@charter.net darkstardog
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:20 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@...>
wrote:
>
> It's evident enough why dogs would eat only meat, but I'm wondering
> what the benefits are for raw vs. cooked. Is it just for the edible
> bones or are there "enzymes" I've heard of that are so beneficial?
If so, what are they exactly?!
>
>

I would not give much weight to claims for benefits from the enzymes
in raw meat. I have never seen any actual evidence that they gave
health benefits.

Enzymes are a specific types of protein molecules which are able to
assist in making specific chemical reactions happen in the body. There
are thousands of types of enzymes because they are so specific in
their actions. The cells of the body make enzymes from amino acids (as
they do all proteins), using instructions from the DNA. The production
and destruction of enzymes is controlled in each cell depending on
what reactions the cell needs to have going on at any time. Because
cells make the enzymes they need, we don't need to get enzymes in the
diet. Most enzymes act inside the cells where they are made. Digestive
enzymes for digesting food are secreted into the gut.

Because enzymes are protein, the enzymes contained in raw food are
attacked by the protein-digesting enzymes in the stomach and intestine
just as other proteins are, and they can be denatured (lose their
shape and made inactive) by the acid in the stomach. They are too
large to normally be absorbed intact from the gut. They would be
broken down into single amino acids just like the other protein
molecules and absorbed into the body that way. So there is no reason
we need intact functioning enzymes from the meat in the diet. Enzymes
in the cell are made and transported to the correct site within the
cell, so it wouldn't do any good to supply them in the diet because
they wouldn't go where they needed to go inside the cells.

Because proteins do need to be broken down inside the cell after they
have served their purpose, there are protein-digesting enzymes (etc.)
inside the cells in addition to those secreted into the gut. So it is
possible that when a dog eats a piece of meat, some of those enzymes
in the meat cells start to digest that meat in addition to the
digestion that happens from the dog's digestive enzymes. This is what
happens when meat is aged to make it more tender. So there may be some
contribution from the enzymes in raw meat to digestion of that meat.
But the dog's body naturally makes protein-digesting enzymes to digest
its food so the absence of those enzymes does not prevent digestion.
Some people make health claims for the fraction of digestion that
might be done by the enzymes in raw meat. I have never seen any
evidence that there is any benefit from those enzymes on a dog's health.
(Some claims for possible benefits of enzymes in raw foods that were
made in the past were based on poor information, and those claims are
made much less often now.)

If you want to feed your dog the way a wolf eats, then you would feed
raw meat, and there would be enzymes in the meat. So that is the
natural state of a dog's ancestral diet, and it might be important to
some people to duplicate all the properties of the natural diet,
whether there is a known benefit or not, since there are many things
we don't know about nutrition. But as far as the claim for specific
benefits from the enzymes, I don't think there's good evidence for a
health benefit from intact enzymes in raw meat during digestion and
absorption.

Marty

Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucusy po
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

Hi. I have just found my dog vomit 5 spots ;near bathroom where I was,top of the stairs on her favorite bed 2 parts,and next to bed,mucousy poo but solid,and shewas laying on entrance door where she vomitted 2 spots.

When i just out from bathroom,I saw this pile of meat chunk with bone bits in greyish brownish liquid on carpet and,I heard vomiting sound,so,I went up stairs and found her vomitting around door,and my husband came out from shower and found another vomitting spots with poo.

I know that if there were bits of bone,it means,too much bone in one sitting right?

Greyish brownish liquid is telling you any??

It is not from butt but from mouth with chunk of meat and bone.

I am thinking she got rid of most of all meal she had this morning.

I did not cut any fat off from rib,and I know she was doing ok last feeding months ago and I am not sure waht was bad about it.

I fed... Beef Short Rib and 1oz sized Green Tripe, and Fish oil.All that she is familiar with.

No idea what is causing this.

Shedid vomitted this morning before feeding,but yellow bile which I know because hungry.

I did not fast her and just fed because it is just hungry sign. I do not feed on exactly same time,but today,she did vomitted up bile,and now this.

Should I fast her?? My husband say we better fast her but she vomitted most of her morning meal...

After I saw all these, I am feeling she looks bit under the weather.

Would you tell me what is causing this and how should i do for feeding?

I know i need to give her liquid but, not sure if I like to feed boneless pork or not which I defrosted in fridge for tonight.

Any suggestionswill be appreciated.

I do not think meat was bad because she had no prob before..and she been fed tripe for 2weeks or so,and saw no prob ..with it.

Was it too much fat because Idid not trim fat??? Anyway,she is looking not feeling good.

I took her out again and she gave water out from butt so,i think sheseems having butt prob too.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (3)
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9b. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucus
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:31 pm ((PDT))

Yassy,

Sounds like she may be ill. It might not be related to the food at all, but
something viral.

Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
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9c. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucus
Posted by: "Belinda van de Loo" auntielindyloo@yahoo.com belindavandeloo
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:36 pm ((PDT))

Yassy,
If it were my dog, I'd give his tummy a rest by fasting or giving broth
(boil a meaty bone and cool down the broth).
Whatever he ate obviously did not settle well. The mucousy poop is
indication of the bowels being irritated, possibly by bone bits. The
vomit sounds like the contents of the stomach with some bile.
Keep monitoring his poop... make sure he has bowel sounds. If he
refuses water/broth and is not pooping... get him to a vet - could be
blockage.
All the best,
Belinda and "Honey" from Holland

Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. Re: "Treats?"
Posted by: "eyed_blue" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:35 pm ((PDT))

I much prefer to give natural treats so I give liver that I have
boiled then dried in the oven myself but if Im using treats out of a
shop then I use Bob Martin puppy bites as it is a dried meat treat
instead of a biscuit, they are great for recall, they stink! You can
get them in Asda.

Have to admit though, I dont mind giving the occasional dog biscuit as
long as it is a treat and not part of his main diet. I have seen a
range in Pets at Home that are all natural dried treats, heart,liver,
prawn and others, think the product is called Thrive. I have not tried
it but I would buy that rather than a cereal based biscuit. Sorry
this is so long winded, hope its of some help.

Natalie

Messages in this topic (2)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12038

There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Ostrich Egg
From: merril Woolf

2a. Re: 2 weeks on Raw
From: linoleum5017

3a. Re: raw vs. cooked / other newbie questions
From: carnesbill
3b. Re: raw vs. cooked / other newbie questions
From: merril Woolf

4a. Re: About Chicken
From: Renate

5a. Re: I need help starting a Raw diet for my Rottweiler
From: carnesbill
5b. Re: I need help starting a Raw diet for my Rottweiler
From: Giselle

6a. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
From: Sandee Lee
6b. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
From: linoleum5017

7a. Re: Trimming...
From: Melindhra

8a. "Treats?"
From: rareimer1979
8b. Re: "Treats?"
From: Dave Brown

Messages
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1a. Re: Ostrich Egg
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:46 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "Susanne MacLeod" <suzmacleod@> wrote:
> >It's
> > almost a big as a football. Huge for my 2 Frenchies!
> *****
> Zounds!
> I vote you scramble the contents, then freeze the results in a ice cube
> tray so that you can feed through the monster in gentle doses.
> Chris O
>

Heck, one of those wouldn't be enough for my crew.

Anyway, you got a good deal and hope your guys enjoy it. I often feed un-hatched ostrich
eggs and they are definitely on the weird list of feeding items. The hatched version would
be so much nicer to try though.

Merril

Messages in this topic (16)
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2a. Re: 2 weeks on Raw
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:43 pm ((PDT))

Sounds like you're off to a great start for your lucky-to-be-rescued-
from-being-bait doggie. Great mix of meat & organs! Keep reading
the posts on this list to refine your choices, but be encouraged
that you're doing a wonderful thing for him!

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "gbongi1" <gbongi1@...> wrote:
> He was used as coyote bait on the farm.

> He is about 1.2 years old. 33lbs. Great dog.
>
> I have been feeding my Heeler mix raw chicken for 2 weeks now.
>
> How I do it:
> - Buy whole oven stuffers.
> - Quarter them.
> - skin them.
> - He gets a quarter a day.
> - He also eats Lamb heart, beef heart, Chicken livers, Necks and
> gizzards as a "side" or later in the evening.
>
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: raw vs. cooked / other newbie questions
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:44 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "spricketysprock"
<jess.hamway@...> wrote:
>
> I generally feed enough bone so that he poops regularly.
> Should that
> be adequate to ensure a proper calcium-phosphorous ratio or
> should I be more diligent?

Don't spend a lot of time worrying about cal/phos ratio. Do you
worry about it in your own diet? If not, then don't worry about it
in your dog's diet.

> Is that an adequate diet? I'm afraid to introduce pork, I've
> heard too
> many horror stories, and don't have much access to other cuts
> of meat
> that are reasonably priced.

Forget the old wives tales you hear about pork. If you live in the
US or Canada or Australia pork bought in a grocery store is as safe
as any other meat. Thousands upon thousands of us feed pork at
least once a week with no prolems and have been doing so for years.
I would wager that after poultry, pork is the most often fed meat in
a dog's raw diet. IMO you need a little more variety.

> My dog is around 65 lbs, 10.5 yrs, a shepherd mix. I would REALLY
> appreciate it if someone could tell me just how much liver
> he should
> be getting... I have a feeling I'm not feeding nearly enough
> (one palm-
> sized piece every 3 weeks or so) but I'm afraid to feed too much
> because I heard too much vit. A is toxic.

You would almost have to feed nothing but liver to get enough Vit A
to be toxic. Don't worry about it. I feed a about a fist size glob
every week or so to dogs twice the size of yours. I am more
concerned that I am feeding enough rather than too much.

> Also, I'm wondering if anyone on this group are long-time
> veterans of
> raw feeding, and how your dogs have responded to it. Anyone
> here feed
> raw to a pup through old age?

I've only been feeding almost 5 years so I don't consider myself a
long-time raw feeder. Both of my dogs and both cats are in perfect
health as far as I know.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: raw vs. cooked / other newbie questions
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:44 pm ((PDT))

> Also, I'm wondering if anyone on this group are long-time veterans of
> raw feeding, and how your dogs have responded to it. Anyone here feed
> raw to a pup through old age?
>
> I'm loving this group, thanks so much everyone!!
>
> Jessica and Toby
>

Everyone who has seen my response to this just close your ears.

Jessica,
Yes, I'm a long term raw feeder. I have raised, bred and laid to rest a lot of raw fed dogs
over the years. It's the only thing I'd ever feed and the only thing I do feed. (other than a
short stint feeding 50/50 kibble raw during the late 80's-early 90's, all have been only raw
fed.

I feed many odd items but that's because I make it my lifes work to make sure my dogs
have a never ending supply of different food items.

We feed:
chicken in any form
rabbit - hares and domestic
goat in all forms - grass fed
whole cows - grass fed
some lamb/mutton
ostich in all forms
some venison
pork - all forms
whole fish - all kinds
very green tripe (some stomach contents as well as the stomach lining)
eggs
free fall fruit from our own trees (their choice)
free range veggies from our own garden (their choice)
table scraps
the heads from all kinds of critters (cow, goat, rabbit, chicken etc)
fetuses
un-laid ostrich egss (no shell)
anything else that comes their way.

My sister lives with us and has her own dogs who she raw feeds.
She has 2 15 year olds
I have 2 15 year olds
We both have a pack that range in age from 6 months to the aforementioned 15 years.
They don't eat kibble and don't know what it is.
The average age at death for my dogs is 16 with 17 being the oldest and 15 being the
youngest. NONE have died from any diet related health problems.
They all remain healthy into old age with wonderful coats and good teeth. No dentals.
These are working dogs who compete at a very high level within their breed. Many people
have converted to raw because of my dogs and how they look.

I recently had a vet staying with us for the week and she was amazed at the health of all
our dogs and was quick to tell me how well they looked.
The vet is a kibble feeder but with a bit of help from me, is changing over to raw bit by bit.

One person at a time, that's all we ask.

I wean all my pups to raw as it's all they know. Never had a dog with any digestive
problem ever. Never have diarreah or stomach upsets. They all have iron stomachs.

Merril

Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Re: About Chicken
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:44 pm ((PDT))

I'm in Canada, and I haven't seen meat anywhere near the $1 per pound you
guys are talking about, and our dollar has been only about 10cents below
yours. I used to be a sheep farmer and rabbit farmer, so I know these guys
would love to get some better prices than they can get in the normal course
of farming. There's a quite large egg farm up the road that I'm thinking
for the chicken and I still have some rabbit contacts for culls. And
there's the abbatoir that has been really great so far with special
requests. So I can probably get them to put aside all those beefy and porky
bits people don't want. Then there's my freezer that is full of
freezer-burned beef and the somewhat lame grocery store sales. If I can put
it all together it may well cost less than the price of Canidae which is
what I'm feeding at the moment. And a lot more interesting - for me and for
the dogs!

This is really exciting. I'm learning so much. Thank you all!
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

On 9/14/07, Morledzep@aol.com <Morledzep@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> if you can get the culled layers for less than you can buy fryers in the
> grocery store go for it.. dogs won't care.. and how tough the bones are is
> NOT an
> issue.. no matter how old the chicken is, the bones can never get too
> tough
> for a dog to eat.
>
> They will still most likely have a kinda lopsided meat/bone ratio like
> grocery store birds do, but that is easily remedied with added meat.
>
> Catherine R
>
--

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Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: I need help starting a Raw diet for my Rottweiler
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:48 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jamyers@...> wrote:
>
> I am wanting to start a raw diet for my 4 year old rottweiler.
> I have
> been reading some things, but am at a loss for where to start.

My web page at http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding will get you
started on the right path. It should answer most of your questions.

Get the book "Work Wonders" by Tom Lonsdale. You may download the
book for $9.95 from http://www.ebookmall.com/ebooks-authors/tom-
lonsdale-ebooks.htm or order hard copy either at

http://www.dogwise.com or at http://www.amazon.com (cheaper).

A few informative web sites are:
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm (My web page)
http://rawfeddogs.net/

--- be sure and check the recipes page.
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: I need help starting a Raw diet for my Rottweiler
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:54 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Jenn!
Welcome to the raw side!
Start here;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374

There are others on the list that raw feed ferrets. I'm sure someone
will post with great advice!

For switching cats, visit;

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/
Tc, let us know how you progress!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I am wanting to start a raw diet for my 4 year old rottweiler. I have
> been reading some things, but am at a loss for where to start. We are
> currently feeding her Canidae dry dog food. I also have a 1 year old
> cat and 2 ferrets one who is 4 and one that is 1yr old. Any help on
> starting the raw diet would be extremely helpful. Thanks in advance.
> Jenn Myers
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:05 pm ((PDT))

What exactly are you feeding and which dog has the problem?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "rosielefty" <rosielefty@yahoo.com>
I am new to the site. I read a lot of your messages and read about
raw feeding on the internet. I also bought "Raw Dog Food Make It Easy
For You and Your Dog" by Carina Beth MacDonal. So I don't know enough
yet I am sure. Anyway, I have two Cattle dogs. One is 9 yrs and one is
5 yrs. I have been raw feeding for about four weeks and it has been
rocky. First she didn't want to eat and now possible constipation with
the 5 yr old. The 9 yr old has allergies to everything and he is the
reason I began raw feeding. He likes the meat but has had loose
stools, gas, burping and now very loose stools with very small firmer
peices at the end. I did a really stupid thing. I wasn't sure which
bones were okay and I fed some beef ribs with 1 inch bones. He ate
about three of the bones and now I am very afraid one may be stuck. He
eats some but not enthusiastically. He vomited two nights ago but not
since. Does anyone have any input? Thanks in advance, Beth

Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. Re: Worried about a possible blockage?
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:17 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rosielefty" <rosielefty@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
> I am new to the site. First she didn't want to eat and now
possible constipation with the 5 yr old.

***
Hi, Beth,

Possibly too much bone in this one's diet. Much like the rest of us,
some need more 'thickening' than others!

The 9 yr old has allergies to everything and he is the reason I began
raw feeding. He likes the meat but has had loose stools, gas, burping
and now very loose stools with very small firmer peices at the end.
****
Sounds like this one's system might benefit from more bone. Remember,
increased bone produces increased stool firmness. Still, like us,
expect varied stools, depending on what is consumed.

I did a really stupid thing. I wasn't sure which bones were okay and
I fed some beef ribs with 1 inch bones. He ate about three of the
bones and now I am very afraid one may be stuck. He eats some but not
enthusiastically. He vomited two nights ago but not since. Does
anyone have any input?

***
Need more info, please. What size dog is the 9-year old? Larger dogs
are able to handle larger bones. Ribs are not 'weight-bearing,' so
may fall in the realm of edible bones for your dog, depending on his
size. Vomiting and lack of appetite may not be 'bad things,'
necessarily, coupled with other behaviors. How much is your 9-yr. old
eating, since he last consumed the ribs? And what is his allergy
history?

If the lack of appetite lasts more than 4 or 5 days, it might be
worthwile to go to the vet. Stlll, it would help if you gave more
info.

Thanks,
Lynne

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Re: Trimming...
Posted by: "Melindhra" melindhra@gmail.com melindhra
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:22 am ((PDT))

I know I'm a bit late to the party here, but I just wanted to add one
thing: If you need to remove skin from chicken for whatever reason, you
will find it much easier if you put the chicken in the freezer for a few
minutes beforehand. Even though I am a vegetarian, I know that one trick!

--
- Melindhra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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8a. "Treats?"
Posted by: "rareimer1979" rareimer@gmail.com rareimer1979
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:23 am ((PDT))

Just wondering what types of things raw feeders use as training treats
and such...or if you use them at all?

Robyn

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: "Treats?"
Posted by: "Dave Brown" quahog@netnet.net quahogwi
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:28 am ((PDT))

At 02:25 AM 9/15/2007, you wrote:

>Just wondering what types of things raw feeders use as training treats
>and such...or if you use them at all?
>
>Robyn

I've been known to make my own jerky and then break it into
pieces. Also, and I know that they're not raw, my Maxx is wild for SPAM.

But on the raw side I use freeze dried raw meat Nibblets from AFS (

http://animalfood.com/db0081/ ) They also have freeze dried chicken
Nibblets as well as freeze dried 100% Green Tripe Nibblets. It just
so happens that I'm a distributor of their products and like them
(was actually using them before I became a distributor). There may
be others out there that I'm not familiar with.

David G. Brown
Real Meal Pet Food
Green Bay, WI

(920) 362-7574
realmealpetfood@netnet.net

Messages in this topic (2)
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