Feed Pets Raw Food: Aug 28, 2007

Tuesday, August 28, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11970

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Concerned about lethargic pooch
From: jrychcik01@comcast.net
1b. Re: Concerned about lethargic pooch
From: cmhausrath

2a. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Momvella@aol.com
2b. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Momvella@aol.com
2c. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Momvella@aol.com
2d. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Giselle
2e. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Giselle
2f. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Sandee Lee
2g. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: costrowski75

3.1. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Christina Veit
3.2. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Daisy Foxworth

4.1. Re: constipation
From: Yasuko herron
4.2. Re: constipation
From: Laurie Swanson
4.3. Re: constipation
From: Linda Edgington

5a. Re: legumes Unhealthy? - Cheryl
From: tottime47

6.1. Hi
From: Stephanie
6.2. Re: Hi
From: costrowski75

7a. One week in..updates!
From: lar07911
7b. Re: One week in..updates!
From: Laurie Swanson
7c. Re: One week in..updates!
From: coriowen

8a. Re: gnaw-worthy bones
From: costrowski75

9. New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
From: ferrarious

10a. Re: Do you all rotate Fish oil Brand??
From: costrowski75

11a. Re: Feeding wing and thigh separately to large dogs
From: costrowski75

12a. Re: apple cider vinegar & digestive enzymes
From: Ivette Casiano

Messages
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1a. Re: Concerned about lethargic pooch
Posted by: "jrychcik01@comcast.net" jrychcik01@comcast.net jrychcik07
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

Could there be another factor? I know my yorkie who was started on raw a few months ago, and recently developed the same symptoms. She tested positive for lyme's disease last week.

Good luck!

Jennifer
Spiritual Danes
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Pam Vojtas" <pam.vojtas@datacore.com>

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:14:57
To:<rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [rawfeeding] Concerned about lethargic pooch

Hi,

I posted 5 weeks ago and have been feeding my two pooches raw ever
since. We're getting the hang of it!

But I am getting very concerned about my two year old terrier, who
recently seems very tired and uninterested (someone described it quite
appropriately as 'sad'). He has no energy and 'trots' at our agility
classes, where just weeks ago he was a little speed demon. I have seen
several other posts with the same lament, and this reply:

As for acting lethargic, raw fed dogs don't have the same carb fed
frenzied energy that ki**le fed dogs do. Many owners think their dog is
sad at first when in fact, they are just calm for the first time.

Any comments on whether or not this new behavior is truly raw-related
and whether there is any remedy? I miss my happy energetic little guy!

Pam (and Charlie and Quincy)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
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1b. Re: Concerned about lethargic pooch
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:03 pm ((PDT))

"Pam Vojtas" <pam.vojtas@...> wrote:

> But I am getting very concerned about my two year old terrier, who
> recently seems very tired and uninterested

My dog certainly didn't become lethargic when I started raw feeding --
if anything, his energy and stamina increased. He happily joined me
for 5-8 mile runs (he's a good-sized dog, and I'm a slow runner!) and
always had energy to do more. He's 13ish now, so he IS less
energetic than he used to be (no more long runs), but he still has
well-balanced energy and **plenty** of enthusiasm. In other words, I
wouldn't attribute this change to raw feeding.

BUT I do have one question: where do you live? B/c where I am,
central Virginia, it has been HOT as all-get-out, with the humidity
over 90%, for weeks. Everyone here is feeling it!

If it's not hot or humid where you are, I'd do some further
investigating to find out where your guy's energy went. What exactly
are you feeding? When did you notice a drop in his energy? Has
anything else changed in his environment? Etc...

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (12)
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2a. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Momvella@aol.com" Momvella@aol.com kobeesmom
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Marty,
I never thought of that.They were already in a mix.It was broccoli carrots pintobeans,stingbeans and kidney. They are called a rancho mix.I just put them in a blender frozen and made a veggie slop with applecider vinigar and pumpkin and a lil garlic. than I added it to my ground meat.
???????????????????????????????????????? Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: darkstardog <darkstardog@charter.net>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 4:18 pm
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: legumes Unhealthy?

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kobeesmom" <Momvella@...> wrote:

> Have a quick question . I made up a batch of raw food for Kobi. Needed

> some veggies so I used a package of frozen Broccoli mix. It had some

> pinto beans in the mix. I never heard of uncooked beans being

> dangerous but I read in this months dog Journal mag that they are if

> there uncooked. I made a 2 month supply. Do I have to throw this out?

> Anybody else heard of this? Thanks in advance for the replies.

> Cindy

You know, it takes hours to cook raw dried pinto beans and only a few

minutes to cook broccoli. I'm guessing that the pinto beans in that

broccoli mix are already cooked. So you can make the decision to use

it or not, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have to worry specifically

about raw legumes in the food. That's my guess, but the company should

be able to tell you.

Marty

________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (19)
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2b. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Momvella@aol.com" Momvella@aol.com kobeesmom
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:36 pm ((PDT))

I let him gnaw on rec bones. Marrow bones and such. Had to push a chicken wing down his throat once . Scared the life out of me. From now on I grind.He is a shih Tzu
????????????????????????????????????????? Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: Olga <olga.drozd@gmail.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 5:49 pm
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: legumes Unhealthy?

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Momvella@... wrote:

> Thanks for the reply. I do only feed raw. The veggie mix is raw. My

shih Tzu is a gluper so I grind his meat with bones than add the

veggie mix to it. Been on raw for 8 years now.

> ?????????????????????????????? Cindy

Hi Cindy,

Raw or not, dogs don't need veggies. And if your dog is a gulper you

need to feed him bigger pieces, not grind his food into a mush. Aim

for feeding pieces that are bigger than his head, he can't swallow

that. :)

Olga

________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (19)
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2c. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Momvella@aol.com" Momvella@aol.com kobeesmom
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:37 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for clearing that up. I have been feeding raw for about 8 years I add a very small amount of veggies to kobi mix always varying them maybe about a 1/2 a cup to a 2 month mix.Most of the books that I have read said to put some in but not to over power the protein . I would say maybe 1/4 of it is veggie maybe even a little lower.
?????????????????????? Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 5:45 pm
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] legumes Unhealthy?

>The veggie mix is raw.

Well, I guess the way I said was misunderstood i guess.

No,here on this list,people feed raw meat,raw organ and raw bone and no veggies (cooked or raw).

Veggies are carb and,dog does not need carb but protin and fat most.

You could give veggies if small amount as treats,but not in part of diet menu here.

In your feeding carb is dominating over protins??

yassy

---------------------------------

Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.

Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

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________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (19)
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2d. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:53 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Cindy!
Raw or not, vegetables are entirely unnecessary for dogs.

Why do you think you have to make 'veggie slop'? To try to make the
nutrients in veggies more accessible to your dog, so he can digest
them. NO way.

This list supports a species appropriate raw whole prey model of
feeding. Dogs are wolves, except for their outer wrapper. Wolves eat
whole prey. Herbivores, which are prey, eat vegetation. Wolves, who
are carnivores, eat herbivores. Each animal gets the most optimal
nutrition for its biological needs from the source it evolved to eat,
its ecological niche.

All your dog needs is raw meat, edible bones and organs. 80% meat
(muscle, fat, skin, connective tissue), 10% edible bone and 10%
organs. (5% liver, 5% 'other')

He has his own teeth, and can learn better how to chew his meat if you
don't prechew it for him. Serve hunks of meat 'n bone bigger than his
head. Let him engage with the meal and obtain the physical, mental and
dental activity he needs for optimal health.

Sell your grinder and get a freezer to hold some lovely meat for your
dog instead. : )

Save yourself lots of time and money, eat the veggies yourself.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I never thought of that. They were already in a mix. It was
broccoli, carrots, pinto beans, string beans and kidney. They are
called a rancho mix. I just put them in a blender frozen and made a
veggie slop with apple cider vinegar and pumpkin and a lil garlic.
than I added it to my ground meat.
> ???????????????????????????????????????? Cindy

Messages in this topic (19)
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2e. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:12 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Cindy!
"Rec" bones are wreck bones! Dogs should have bones that are
mostly consumable. Bones sold under the label of "rec", recreational,
marrow, dog or soup are euphemisms for tooth breakers and wearers. Any
bones not eaten in a meal are not needed by the dog and should be
tossed into the trash. Never feed the hard, dense bones from large
animals. Think how much weight those bones have to hold up, and how
strong they have to be!

Dogs should get their 'recreation'; physical mental and dental
activity, from the meat 'n bones they eat. Their food should be
'bigger than their head', meaning big enough to eliminate the problem
of hasty gulping. A dogs digestion doesn't start in its mouth, he just
needs to tear or crunch off a chunk that will fit down his throat and
swallow.

That's how we can be helpful to them, by watching and monitoring and
assisting when necessary with bringing up or pulling out a hunk of
meat or bit of bone in an emergency. How can a dog that has been used
to kibble all his life 'just know' the right way to eat real food? He
doesn't, he needs to learn by trial and error. If it doesn't fit,
crunch some more. Doesn't sit right in the stomach? NP, Hork it up,
and re eat it. They're dogs, not people, with people manners and mores.

Shih Tzu or Papillon, Labrador or Newfoundland, they are all wolves
under their skin.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I let him gnaw on rec bones. Marrow bones and such. Had to push a
chicken wing down his throat once. Scared the life out of me. From now
on I grind. He is a Shih Tzu
> ????????????????????????????????????????? Cindy

Messages in this topic (19)
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2f. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:15 pm ((PDT))

Cindy,

Rec bones are more commonly known as "wreck bones" for the tooth damage they
do.

Far better to ditch those, feed your little guy some nice large whole
portions that he can't swallow whole or choke on...much healthier for his
gums and teeth as well as digestive system. Wings are far too small and
contain too much bone.

Dogs are carnivores...they require meat, a little bone and some organs.
They have no need for carbohydrates. Skip the veggies!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <Momvella@aol.com>

>
> I let him gnaw on rec bones. Marrow bones and such. Had to push a chicken
wing down his throat once . Scared the life out of me. From now on I
grind.He is a shih Tzu
> ????????????????????????????????????????? Cindy

Messages in this topic (19)
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2g. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:21 pm ((PDT))

"rosey031801" <rosey031801@...> wrote:
>
> I don't give my dog anything but raw meat. I thought this whole group
> did that. I thought they are not susposed to get veggies.
*****
Not as a significant part of the raw diet, no. Perhaps some people
were responding to the specific question without actually addressing
the larger issue of "why?". There is no need to feed vegetables,
fruits, grains, or legumes. You're correct.

Occasional veggies (tablescraps, windfall) are not likely to screw up a
good raw diet. Intentional veggies are something else entirely,
especially unfriendly ones (exactly like legumes!). They are
inappropriate, yes.

The veggies my dogs get as scraps do not even show up on radar.
They're not likely to get legumes though, ever.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (19)
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3.1. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Christina Veit" friztin@earthlink.net FRIZTIN
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

"Homeopathics work equally well for animals as humans, but only when the
totality of symptoms indicate the particular remedy is the simillimum."

Well... this one in particular (Carbo Veg) is for nausea and heartburn, also
for gas and stomach discomforts.

I found this in the internet:

"Carbo Vegetabilis (Vegetable Charcoal) is a homeopathic relief remedy to
aid someone who is about to collapse or has low vitality after an illness"

"Carbo Veg is from vegetable charcoal, well known for its ability to absorb
toxins in the body.

Carbo veg is great for excess gas in your stomach, indigestion, bloating,
belching.

Calm your digestive system from overeating, eating wrong foods, poorly or
slow digestion, eating bad combinations of food. Carbo veg is indicated for
conditions from toxicity such as fatigue, constipation and diarrhea, feeling
under the weather with colds. Tinnitus with dizziness. Rattling cough."
-----

"Good luck with your pooch."

Thanks! He looks pretty stable right now, he took some zips of broth, no
vomiting today so far!
-----

Christina.

Messages in this topic (36)
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3.2. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:27 pm ((PDT))

>
> "Homeopathics work equally well for animals as humans, but only
when the
> totality of symptoms indicate the particular remedy is the
simillimum."
>
> Well... this one in particular (Carbo Veg) is for nausea and
heartburn, also
> for gas and stomach discomforts.
>
> I found this in the internet:

Hi, Christina, that's a good start, but it is better to work with
both a Materia Medica (a book describing in great deal the features
of different remedies) and a repertory (a book that lists and also
rates remedies associated with very specific symptoms) in fine-tuning
which remedies are most likely and then reading everything you can on
those individual remedies. It is also an art to know which symptoms
are worth paying attention to. Still learning myself. You may be
right about carbo veg, but I think you need to know more about that
remedy and the others which may fit the symptoms.

By all means learn what you can about homeopathy for both yourself
and your pets! There are some sister lists here at Yahoo where you
can get more information.

>
> Thanks! He looks pretty stable right now, he took some zips of
broth, no
> vomiting today so far!
> -----
>
That's great! Maybe he has settled down for now.

Daisy

Messages in this topic (36)
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4.1. Re: constipation
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

>My dog is having a hard time pooping

Hi.My suggestions are..

1> read many postings.You will be able to find poopy prob related posts when you search archives

2>Give more boneless meat,reduce bone intake

3>Give liver

4>Go for walk because walking encourage bowel movement.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

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Messages in this topic (35)
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4.2. Re: constipation
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:49 pm ((PDT))

Hi Linda,

Do you mean that your dog is pooping less, or is he actually straining
to go? Has he been pooping? If so, what's coming out? :-) Raw-fed
dogs poop less than kibble-fed, and sometimes a dog won't go for 2 or 3
days when they first start. But some people feed too much bone, which
can cause constipation and hard, dry stool. Not sure how much of each
type of food you've given and what body parts--are you feeding mostly
meat with some bone?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Linda Edgington <lindagail849@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi, My dog is having a hard time pooping.

Messages in this topic (35)
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4.3. Re: constipation
Posted by: "Linda Edgington" lindagail849@yahoo.com lindagail849
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:40 pm ((PDT))

he is actually straining to poop and I have to "pinch" it out. Gross, I know. But on other times it is loose or sticks to his hair anyway. He has had more baths than a dog should have I'm sure. Yes he has prob had more bone than just meat. How often should bone be fed? Once a week? or more. I am having such a prob with him on this. My cat is doing wonderful, transistioned well. I don't seem to have this prob with K......but I'm not going back to that. To the moderator, I don't know how to trim my posts. Linda

Laurie Swanson <laurie@mckinneyphoto.com> wrote: Hi Linda,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Linda Edgington <lindagail849@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi, My dog is having a hard time pooping.

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (35)
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5a. Re: legumes Unhealthy? - Cheryl
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:48 pm ((PDT))

Cheryl,

You have it right, we don't feed veggies....

Sometimes a new person will come on board that is still
feeding them till "teach" them about the error of the ways, lol.

Carol, Charkee & Moli ( meat please!)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rosey031801" <rosey031801@...>
wrote:
>
> I don't give my dog anything but raw meat. I thought this whole group
> did that. I thought they are not susposed to get veggies.
> Cheryl

Messages in this topic (19)
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6.1. Hi
Posted by: "Stephanie" stef.scott@yahoo.com stef.scott
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:08 pm ((PDT))

Hello all. I am new to the group. I have 2 standard poodle pups, one 9
months and the other 3.5 months. Been learning a lot about feeding raw
and think I'm ready to make the switch now. Want to learn as much as I
can so my boys will be healthy. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to
learn. I have lots of questions so I hope that's ok :)

Messages in this topic (27)
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6.2. Re: Hi
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:32 pm ((PDT))

"Stephanie" <stef.scott@...> wrote:
Been learning a lot about feeding raw
> and think I'm ready to make the switch now.
*****
Good!

Want to learn as much as I
> can so my boys will be healthy. Thanks for giving me the
opportunity to learn.
*****
Gooder yet!

I have lots of questions so I hope that's ok :)
*****
Questions are fine and dandy. I recommend you do some more reading.
Two websites to check out pronto are:
http://rawfed.com
http://rawfeddogs.net

And please, if you have not browsed the list archives, do so. Just
search for a likely topic, or type in a message number and see what
ya get. In order to access the archives, you must obtain a
Yahoogroups ID number. At the bottom of the list emails you receive
you will find an appropriate link for one.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (27)
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7a. One week in..updates!
Posted by: "lar07911" lar07911@yahoo.com lar07911
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:32 pm ((PDT))

So, I posted several weeks about about waiting to start raw until I
had a bigger freezer...never mind that! I just decided to take the
plunge. My dog has transitioned wonderfully and even put on some much
needed weight. She has been doing so well I decided yesterday I would
put an egg with her chicken quarter.

After that meal she threw up brown and yellowish chunks. I had fed
her a treat and I am suspecting that might be the actual culprit, but
wanted to ask you all first.

Also, I found some chicken meat in my freezer, but it does contain sea
salt and chicken broth. Is that still ok to give?

Are pork neck bones ok to give? When can I start introducing new
protein sources?

She is only 17 lbs, how much should I actually be feeding? Is one
chicken quarter a day plenty? I was feeding her one breast in the
morning and a chicken quarter at night. I am already noticing some
weight gain, but she needed it. No matter how much food I used to
feed her...she just couldn't keep weight on very well. No visible
ribs, but close. She is looking great! Thank you to everyone on this
list!

Laura

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: One week in..updates!
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi Laura,

Congrats!

You'll probably be feeding in the ball park of 1/2# per day--adjust
as needed.

I've only fed eggs a few times, but my dog doesn't seem to do that
well with them. He kind of spits up, and I think he might get
itchy. But I'm going to give it a few more tries. For your dog, I'd
just give the eggs a break, especially since your dog is a newbie,
and then try one again in a couple weeks or so and see how she does.

Some dogs do fine w/the "enhanced" meats, but many have problems
(loose stool, itchiness, etc.). I don't like giving my dog added
salt or other ingredients. It's up to you.

I feed my dog (20# Boston) big pork necks in hunks that are about 1#
ea. or bigger. I get them from an Asian market. If your dog is a
dainty eater, you might be able to feed smaller pieces than that, but
the bigger and less-sawed, the better, to minimize gulping/choking.
My dog was more of a gulper in the beginning, but after almost a year
of the prey model diet, he's slower and more careful about how he
eats.

Many people feed chicken or one other protein source without organs
for a couple weeks in the beginning, to minimize chances of loose
stool. You can do that, or you can introduce more variety and then
back up and simplify if you have any issues. It sometimes takes
newbie dogs' systems a bit to get up to speed. Organs and eggs are
more loosening, bone helps firm up the stool, too much bone is
constipating.

Laurie

Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: One week in..updates!
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:11 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lar07911" <lar07911@...> wrote:
>
> So, I posted several weeks about about waiting to start raw until I
> had a bigger freezer...never mind that! I just decided to take the
> plunge. My dog has transitioned wonderfully and even put on some
much needed weight. She has been doing so well I decided yesterday I
would put an egg with her chicken quarter.

> After that meal she threw up brown and yellowish chunks. I had fed
> her a treat and I am suspecting that might be the actual culprit,
but wanted to ask you all first.

It depends on what the treat was? I would definitely think it's the
treat, if it contains all the junk kibble contains, that made her
sick. When you finally get her system used to the new raw diet, at
only 17lbs. I would think even a small dog bisquit could push her
system out of whack again. The raw egg could possibly do it but I
would suspect the treat quicker.

I am new at this also, and I took some time to read the "Raw Food
Myths" and it answered a TON of questions for me. I think anyone
thinking about raw or just starting out on raw should have this as a
good reference, as well as this group.

> Also, I found some chicken meat in my freezer, but it does contain
sea
> salt and chicken broth. Is that still ok to give?

I'd save that chicken for you, she needs as close to natural as she
can get and the salt and the "broth" they use aren't natural.

>> She is only 17 lbs, how much should I actually be feeding? Is one
> chicken quarter a day plenty? I was feeding her one breast in the
> morning and a chicken quarter at night. I am already noticing some
> weight gain, but she needed it. No matter how much food I used to
> feed her...she just couldn't keep weight on very well. No visible
> ribs, but close. She is looking great! Thank you to everyone on
this
> list!

It sounds like you have her at the weight you would like and she
needed it, but if I fed my adult 17lb. Dachshund the amount you are
feeding, I could see her putting on weight. It should be about 3% of
her body weight per day. I had to use a scale at first to know
approx. what my 4 dogs would eat per day. I also have a 10 mos. old
Dachshund that is very thin and doesn't seem to put on any weight
with the 3% body weight per day so I am going to up her intake. She
is still growing so I think I am going to start feeding her 3 X day.
I hope I helped a little.
Cori

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: gnaw-worthy bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:32 pm ((PDT))

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:

> The one I got is with fur. About palm size is cow hooves and
second half is looking foot with fur.
>
> Is this too th breaker or something?
*****
Hard to know. The cow feet I give to my dogs are whole (although
without skin...lucky you!) and much of the work that goes into
tackling a cow foot is getting the skin off. A split foot may be
easier to break apart since one side is already exposed. My dogs
usually eat the skin, the joint bones and the connective tissue, and
get most of the marrow from the length of cannon bone (I think it
is?. When they're down to bare cannon bone, I take the bone away.

I don't know how much easier half a foot will be to dismantle. For a
good gnawer, the hide ought not present an insurmountable problem,
and of course the open side provides ready access to the bones. So
how much "trouble" she can get herself into is, I guess, up to you to
discover! If halving the foot allows her to make quick work of it,
perhaps next time you might try an unsliced foot.

Whole, cow feet are generally the only "rec" bones I will give my
adult dogs. And that's because there's a job to be done before they
even get to the hunk of weight bearing bone. Which of course they
have to turn in, like good little Doobies.

I think you should give the foot try and be there to call it quits if
you aren't comfortable with her performance.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (17)
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9. New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
Posted by: "ferrarious" ferrarious@yahoo.com ferrarious
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:48 pm ((PDT))

Hi,
I have two dogs, 4 years mixbreed bitch that ate for her all life
k***le food, and 3.5 month old Vizsla puppy who ate k***ble and
chicken+rise until now. After reading the mailing list for few days and
anything I could find on the net I switched to raw. For the past two
days they ate only chicken. I got whole chickens and they got it parts
by parts. Every thing was ok until the pup woke me up now and I took
him outside. He had diarrhea and I think worms ( it was dark so I am
not sure about the worms ). In the evening both of the dogs were ok (
it only took them more time until they pooped and I didn't see worms ).
What should I do? Not to feed in the morning and give them both anti
worms treatment and feed them, chicken in the evening?

While I am writing he threw up a little ( grass and a little part of
the bone ) and pooped liquid at the house, his first time, he never
pooped at the house before.

Thank you in advance,
Dan.

Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: Do you all rotate Fish oil Brand??
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:03 pm ((PDT))

"Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> I hear tell that Wallmart has a soy free fish oil, but I haven't
> gotten over there to check it out for myself. Anyone have ideas?
> I'm up for salmon, herring, liquid, capsules, you name it.
*****
Update on Walmart soy-free FBO.
It appears to be gone.

A while back I found at Walmart both Rexall brand FBO and Rexall brand
SO. Nice soy-free capsules, good basic dose, good price. Last week I
went looking for more. Not only was no there no Rexall FBO or SO (soy-
free or otherwise) the product currently on the shelf was a 3, 6 combo
product or worse, a 3, 6, 9 combo. And soy-based to boot. Straight
FBO was still available through the standard Green Valley label, but
that's always had soy.

I was able to find (by breaking the rules and standing on a lower shelf
to reach the top of the top shelves) two last jars of the Rexall SO,
but that seems to be it, at least for the two stores I shopped.

I checked for Rexall online, and it does appear that the hot item is
now the 3, 6 combo. Boo hiss.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: Feeding wing and thigh separately to large dogs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:09 pm ((PDT))

"steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
>> Yes, I did separate, but that is only because I know how my dogs
> eat. They are not rushers and prefer to take the time to chew
> thoroughly. I knew it would be okay doing it this way. Besides, I
> think it will make the chicken last longer, because if I just gave
> them the whole bird, they would sit there until they ate the whole
> bird in one sitting! I don't want them eating that much. There is
> always the option of taking it away from them after a while in
order
> to save some, but since I'm not having issues with separating the
> pieces, I'll continue to do it that way.
*****
I think there is some confusion here. That your dogs can eat small
food doesn't mean small food is what you should be feeding. Food is
more than nutrition. It is exercise, dental and mental hygiene, and
fun. If your dogs can carefully dismantle a wing, they can carefully
dismantle a wing/breast quarter or a leg/thigh quarter...and they
have every right to do so.

In fact, if your dogs can carefully dismantle a whole chicken they
should have a crack at that as well. Why don't you want them to eat
that much? Can you not "sort it all out" in subsequent meals? This
would be a likely and sensible way to allow for big eating as well as
not-so-big eating. Maybe not all the time, but certainly some of the
time your dogs should have Big Food opportunities.

The issue you aren't having with separated body parts is the same
issue you won't have when you feed your dogs larger chunks o'
chicken. From the sound of it, your dogs are readier to go than you
are.

I recommend you give 'em a chance.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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12a. Re: apple cider vinegar & digestive enzymes
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:28 pm ((PDT))

<<...Please excuse my lack of knowledge, but why did you have him on DE
for three months?
Chris O...>>

I started feeding raw but he was vomitting a lot. My sister suggested DE but little did I know at the time that what I was doing wrong was feeding one meal of raw and one of ki**le. This went on for over 2 months until I switched to 100% raw a little over 3 weeks ago after an incident of vomitting and 4 days of diarrhea. It took a house of bricks to fall on us to finally make the move (that's what it took for me to convince my boyfriend to let me feed 100% raw). All's well now.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11969

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Christina Veit
1.2. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Christina Veit
1.3. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Andrea
1.4. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Christina Veit
1.5. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Daisy Foxworth

2a. Re: Feeding wing and thigh separately to large dogs
From: Olga

3.1. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
From: cypressbunny

4a. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Olga
4b. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: chrisstfo@aol.com
4c. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Andrea
4d. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: darkstardog
4e. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: rosey031801
4f. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Momvella@aol.com
4g. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Yasuko herron
4h. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Olga

5a. Re: Are goldfish ok to eat?
From: ginny wilken
5b. Re: Are goldfish ok to eat?
From: Yasuko herron

6. Suggestions for feeding a 1.5lb pup?
From: Monica

7a. Re: Frothy vomit
From: Tina Berry

8. 4 Week Old Kitten
From: Jen - E'Clat Standard Poodles

9a. Concerned about lethargic pooch
From: Pam Vojtas
9b. Re: Concerned about lethargic pooch
From: Andrea

10. Re: chicken egg
From: Penelope Quillen

11a. Re: Do you all rotate Fish oil Brand??
From: Yasuko herron

12.1. constipation
From: Linda Edgington

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1.1. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Christina Veit" friztin@earthlink.net FRIZTIN
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:07 am ((PDT))

"Is there anything like paints or glues involved? Anything that gives off
fumes may be affecting him even if he's in another part of the house...and
his liver is much smaller than yours, so toxins like that will affect him
first."

No, no fumes, paints or glues here... have been a while since we did that
part.
-----

How is his gum color? His temperature?

Gum color is black (pigmented, so I can't really tell). Temperature, maybe a
little bit down. It feels a little bit dehydrated to the touch.
-----

I've been thinking... what if I give him some Pepto-Bismol or something to
ease the symptoms...? His stomach sounds very active this morning, yesterday
was very quiet. He has been gassy too. I have Hyland's Carbo Veg 30x. I
don't know if I can give him that... I just want him to feel better :(

Christina

Messages in this topic (34)
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1.2. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Christina Veit" friztin@earthlink.net FRIZTIN
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:42 am ((PDT))

"That's ok. If he was able to wait to go outside and find a spot to poo it
isn't diarrhea, it's just loose stools"

Ok, that makes me feel better...
-----

If he's still acting like he doesn't feel good you should let him fast
another day. Make sure lots of water is available if he wants it and try
giving him some homemade broth.

He's got fresh clean water available at all times, but he doesn't want to
drink any. I just gave him 3 tablespoons and he didn't like it too much.
I'll try later with a new broth that I'm making from a cup of water and a
tablespoon of ground lean beef. He is already sniffing, nose up.. so I guess
he may want to try it. Let's see...
------

Thanks again for your help guys...

Christina.

Messages in this topic (34)
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1.3. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:09 pm ((PDT))

You can try slippery elm bark powder added to some water or a small
meatball of ground meat. They should have it at a health food store
(in powder or capsule form). The slippery elm kind of coats the
digestive tract making it less uncomfortable for the dog. I'm iffy
about giving dogs human stomach remedies since their stomach atmosphere
is so different than ours. You never know if it is actually going to
help or not.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Christina Veit" <friztin@...> wrote:

> I've been thinking... what if I give him some Pepto-Bismol or
> something to ease the symptoms...? His stomach sounds very active
> this morning, yesterday was very quiet. He has been gassy too. I
> have Hyland's Carbo Veg 30x. I don't know if I can give him that...
> I just want him to feel better :(

Messages in this topic (34)
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1.4. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Christina Veit" friztin@earthlink.net FRIZTIN
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:05 pm ((PDT))

Yeah... you are right. That's why I haven't give it to him. Carbo Veg is an
homeopathic remedy (which I bought for me, since I suffer from heartburn
myself), but I'm not sure if homeopathic vets prescribe it to animals, just
wondering if anyone here knew..

I will look for the Slippery Elm Bark powder though.

Thank you!

Christina.

"You can try slippery elm bark powder added to some water or a small
meatball of ground meat. They should have it at a health food store (in
powder or capsule form). The slippery elm kind of coats the digestive tract
making it less uncomfortable for the dog. I'm iffy about giving dogs human
stomach remedies since their stomach atmosphere is so different than ours.
You never know if it is actually going to help or not."

Messages in this topic (34)
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1.5. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:51 pm ((PDT))

Carbo Veg is an
> homeopathic remedy (which I bought for me, since I suffer from
heartburn
> myself), but I'm not sure if homeopathic vets prescribe it to
animals, just
> wondering if anyone here knew..
>
>
Homeopathics work equally well for animals as humans, but only when
the totality of symptoms indicate the particular remedy is the
simillimum.

Good luck with your pooch.

Daisy

Messages in this topic (34)
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2a. Re: Feeding wing and thigh separately to large dogs
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:41 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "steph.sorensen"
<steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
> Besides, I
> think it will make the chicken last longer, because if I just gave
> them the whole bird, they would sit there until they ate the whole
> bird in one sitting!

You can still divide the chicken in a more natural way so that each
meal can be in one piece rather than multiple ones. For example, cut
down the middle to make two half chickens, and then cut those in half
to make 4 quarters. It's better than having two wings, drumsticks,
thighs, breasts, and a back all in little bits, especially if you're
giving more than one of those anyway.

Olga

Messages in this topic (4)
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3.1. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:41 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "darkstardog" <darkstardog@...>
wrote:
>
> Okay, I've never heard that the stomach secretes amylase.
> But as far as an enzyme secreted
> into the stomach for digestion of food, that's new to me.

*** Ok, not amylase but enzyme precursors--zymogens. Which give rise
to various types of enzymes. Zymogens manufactured by stomach cells
give rise primarily to proteases, not amylases. The article I was
reading did not specify which sort of zymogens they had isolated from
canine stomach cells. My bad.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (36)
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4a. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:48 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kobeesmom" <Momvella@...> wrote:
> I made up a batch of raw food for Kobi.

While I admire all the effort you went to, it's really not necessary
to "make" raw food. You just buy meaty items (like chickens, or
chicken leg quarters, or turkey, or pork) and feed them. Make sure
that over time you're feeding lots of meat together with some bone and
organs here and there.

> Needed some veggies

You don't need any veggies. Well, you do, but your dog sure doesn't. ;)

I think we can greatly simplify the whole process for you, and your
dog will be better for it too! Broccoli, for one, often gives dogs
the toots. :D

Olga

Messages in this topic (11)
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4b. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "chrisstfo@aol.com" chrisstfo@aol.com chrisstfo
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:10 pm ((PDT))

Is it OK to feed any kind of chicken. I was told you should freeze it first
to kill any bacteria. Is this true? Is OK to feed animals that are given all
these steroids. Thanks, Chris

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Messages in this topic (11)
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4c. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:05 pm ((PDT))

I guess ok is a relative term. Some chicken is injected with
juicifiers (broth, saline, whatever) and some dogs have an adverse
reaction to it. Some people don't like feeding enhanced meats because
of the mystery broth. I wish I had the funds to purchase only free
range humanely raised and killed chicken, beef and pork (do they do
free range pork?), but I don't have that kind of money, so I do my
best. At any rate, the "meat" that is in ki**le is no better than what
you get at the store, and usually much worse.

Oh, and freezing doesn't get rid of bacteria, it kills off parasites,
which you shouldn't have to worry about with meats for human
consumption. However, it is recommended to freeze wild game before
feeding, just in case.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, chrisstfo@... wrote:
>
> Is it OK to feed any kind of chicken. I was told you should freeze
> it first to kill any bacteria. Is this true? Is OK to feed animals
> that are given all these steroids.

Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________

4d. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "darkstardog" darkstardog@charter.net darkstardog
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:50 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kobeesmom" <Momvella@...> wrote:
>
> Have a quick question . I made up a batch of raw food for Kobi. Needed
> some veggies so I used a package of frozen Broccoli mix. It had some
> pinto beans in the mix. I never heard of uncooked beans being
> dangerous but I read in this months dog Journal mag that they are if
> there uncooked. I made a 2 month supply. Do I have to throw this out?
> Anybody else heard of this? Thanks in advance for the replies.
> Cindy
>

You know, it takes hours to cook raw dried pinto beans and only a few
minutes to cook broccoli. I'm guessing that the pinto beans in that
broccoli mix are already cooked. So you can make the decision to use
it or not, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have to worry specifically
about raw legumes in the food. That's my guess, but the company should
be able to tell you.

Marty

Messages in this topic (11)
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4e. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

I don't give my dog anything but raw meat. I thought this whole group
did that. I thought they are not susposed to get veggies.
Cheryl

Messages in this topic (11)
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4f. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Momvella@aol.com" Momvella@aol.com kobeesmom
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the reply. I do only feed raw. The veggie mix is raw. My shih Tzu is a gluper so I grind his meat with bones than add the veggie mix to it. Been on raw for 8 years now.
?????????????????????????????? Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 1:36 pm
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] legumes Unhealthy?

>I used a package of frozen Broccoli mix

Hi.This list is for raw feeding and I don't think peopleon thislist don't feed home cooked food to dogs and don't feed veggie too.

One thing,I think I have readsomewhere that broccoli surpress thyroid function.

I maybe wrong,but certain veggie aggrevitate dogs knee if dog were having arthritis and certain veggie surpress thyroid function as well.

I don't know about bean but I know that Macadamia nuts are fatal to dog andshould not be fed.

yassy

---------------------------------

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Messages in this topic (11)
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4g. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:11 pm ((PDT))

>The veggie mix is raw.

Well, I guess the way I said was misunderstood i guess.

No,here on this list,people feed raw meat,raw organ and raw bone and no veggies (cooked or raw).

Veggies are carb and,dog does not need carb but protin and fat most.

You could give veggies if small amount as treats,but not in part of diet menu here.

In your feeding carb is dominating over protins??

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________

4h. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:22 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Momvella@... wrote:
> Thanks for the reply. I do only feed raw. The veggie mix is raw. My
shih Tzu is a gluper so I grind his meat with bones than add the
veggie mix to it. Been on raw for 8 years now.
> ?????????????????????????????? Cindy

Hi Cindy,

Raw or not, dogs don't need veggies. And if your dog is a gulper you
need to feed him bigger pieces, not grind his food into a mush. Aim
for feeding pieces that are bigger than his head, he can't swallow
that. :)

Olga

Messages in this topic (11)
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5a. Re: Are goldfish ok to eat?
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:06 pm ((PDT))

On Aug 28, 2007, at 10:45 AM, Mary Whetsel wrote:

> They are Comet Goldfish anywhere between 3 and 7 inches long.
> They've been in my pond, no chemical treatment... What do you think?
> Would you feed the excess goldfish to your pets?
>

Yep. They are carp, and as clean and nutritious as the water in which
they live. I'd worry a bit about teaching your cats that goldfish are
fair game:)

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: Are goldfish ok to eat?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:50 pm ((PDT))

>> Would you feed the excess goldfish to your pets?

Oh,poor Gold fish.. I used to have Gold fish when I was kids and raised to more or less about 1 foot..

When raw feeding,Gold fish can become one of protin sources too?

At summer time,Japan has Kingyo(Gold Fish) sukui (scooping) and you try get as much gold fish as possible with papered tool to scoop and it was fun but I never thought it is one food source..

And I for the first time learnt that it is carp family.

Carp in Japan is highly delicacy food like Cavier here in US. So,I knew Carp couldeat but Gold fish... never thought about it..

Palette at least would not have chance to get it though:-P

yassy

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Messages in this topic (3)
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6. Suggestions for feeding a 1.5lb pup?
Posted by: "Monica" mommyof2gals@comcast.net mommyof2gals
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:10 pm ((PDT))

I am picking up a 9 week pomeranian pup on Thursday evening who only
weighs about 1.5lbs right now (she will eventually weigh about 5lbs). I
am really not sure how to feed her as she is SO tiny. Its my
understanding that breed is prone to hypoglycemia, so they need to eat
frequently especially as puppies.

I am open to all suggestions!
Thanks
Monica

Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Re: Frothy vomit
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:11 pm ((PDT))

"She ate a bone-in turkey breast (faster than she normally would) and with a
few coughing hacks, she seems to be fully recovered. "

Good to hear. Usually they are fine in 24 hours. Just depends on what it
was.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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8. 4 Week Old Kitten
Posted by: "Jen - E'Clat Standard Poodles" jswog@yahoo.com JSWOG
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:03 pm ((PDT))

Hi! I've just taken in an approximately 4 week old
kitten found in my church parking lot. The last time I
handfed kittens was before I was raw feeding and now I
feel that I don't know what to do for this little
girl. She's currently on pre-packaged milk replacers
(would use goat's milk if I could find someone milking
goats...) and shows no interest in eating anything
else whatsoever. She's currently topping the scales at
.85#, so she's a teeny thing. Any help and/or advice
would be greatly appreciated.

TYIA,
Jen

PS - She will be non-vacc'd, but I did go ahead and
worm her since she came from the streets and has been
having horrid diarrhea.

Jennifer Lorenzen
E'Clat Standard Poodles, home of:
BIS/RBIS U-CH U-CD Jazz It Up II CGC CD "Harley"
E'Clat's Lady Luck "Elle"
E'Clat's Man of My Dreams "Parker"
E'Clat's Cover Girl "Emma"
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9a. Concerned about lethargic pooch
Posted by: "Pam Vojtas" pam.vojtas@datacore.com pvojtas
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:49 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I posted 5 weeks ago and have been feeding my two pooches raw ever
since. We're getting the hang of it!

But I am getting very concerned about my two year old terrier, who
recently seems very tired and uninterested (someone described it quite
appropriately as 'sad'). He has no energy and 'trots' at our agility
classes, where just weeks ago he was a little speed demon. I have seen
several other posts with the same lament, and this reply:

As for acting lethargic, raw fed dogs don't have the same carb fed
frenzied energy that ki**le fed dogs do. Many owners think their dog is
sad at first when in fact, they are just calm for the first time.

Any comments on whether or not this new behavior is truly raw-related
and whether there is any remedy? I miss my happy energetic little guy!

Pam (and Charlie and Quincy)

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Messages in this topic (10)
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9b. Re: Concerned about lethargic pooch
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:13 pm ((PDT))

Don't get me wrong, my pooches have lots of puppy energy, but it
isn't frenzied energy all the time. They've been raw fed for as long
as they've been with me, so I can only compare them with other
people's dogs. However, my mom and sister are on again/off again raw
feeders (because they are extremely lazy to be honest), so I get to
see how the dogs act differently when on ki**le and raw.

Sis's chi is generally a maniac, and though that doesn't change when
he's eating a species appropriate diet, he is much calmer about it.
If he wants to go for a walk or go outside he gets her attention and
waits by the door instead or racing back and forth between her and
the door. He doesn't jump up on me to get attention, just stands by
me. And he doesn't pick fights with my dogs (imagine a chi picking a
fight with a newf). Of course this is the way I see it, I could
easily say that he doesn't look forward to his walks as much, doesn't
dance for me, and isn't interested in playing with his cousins. In
reality, he's just a calmer, happier dog.

I look at it as the difference between a dog that gets proper
exercise and one that is cooped up inside all day. Imagine if you
didn't do activities like agility with your terrier and never took
him on walks. He'd probably become a nightmare from all the extra
energy. Combining well exercised dogs with a species appropriate
diet will result in much calmer dogs than your average dog.

Today seems like my rambling day, because all of that wasn't what I
set out to say in the first place.

Pam, if you are exercising your dogs regularly in addition to doing
agility fun with them, they just might be telling you they need more
energy. You can try feeding them some fattier food like pork or
tongue so he'll have more energy. Newbie dogs might have less "all
the time" energy, but when it is needed for play or activities they
usually have more stamina than your average pup. Let us know if the
fattier foods make any difference.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Pam Vojtas" <pam.vojtas@...>
wrote:

> Any comments on whether or not this new behavior is truly raw-
> related and whether there is any remedy? I miss my happy energetic
> little guy!

Messages in this topic (10)
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10. Re: chicken egg
Posted by: "Penelope Quillen" copperquillpen@hotmail.com copperquillpen1958
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:50 pm ((PDT))

My question about raw eggs is, can they be fed to cats? & how? Penelope

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Re: Do you all rotate Fish oil Brand??
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

>I hear tell that Wallmart has a soy free fish oil, but I haven't gotten over there to check it >out for myself. Anyone have ideas?

Hi,Andrea. I hear some people buy Fish oil from Wallmart too.I too never had chance to go there and see whatit is like.

Me, on the other hand,started from quite nervous about everything from feeding method to which one is good to feed to what to supplement with..you name it,so,I got it from B-natural in MN.

http://www.b-naturals.com/product_info.php?products_id=141

I don't think it had soy in it.My dog does not show itchness.

I was thinking to try their Salmon oil as well after finishing this up.

And also,I was interested in trying Monica Segal Salmon oil because the web looked like real pure oil.

Those I talking here are all capsules,not liquid.

>Back to the original question (sorry about the digression, Yassy),

that is ok,everyone can ask their own questions too.

I was thinking that I may alternate Fish oil and Salmon oil Capsules.

Andrea,check the web.I double check the fish oil I have and see if it lists soy in it. If not,you can try it to yourdog too.

yassy

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12.1. constipation
Posted by: "Linda Edgington" lindagail849@yahoo.com lindagail849
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:13 pm ((PDT))

Hi, My dog is having a hard time pooping. He seems to be constipated. What can I give him so that he doesn't go the other way? He is a tiny toy poodle. 5.5pounds. I have been feeding chicken, pork, gizzards, is what he has had so far in a weeks time.

Thnaks,

Linda

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11968

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. legumes Unhealthy?
From: kobeesmom
1b. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Giselle
1c. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Yasuko herron

2a. Re: Weaning pups from Mom to raw
From: Tina Berry
2b. Re: Weaning pups from Mom to raw
From: Rebecca Little

3a. Re: chicken egg question need input.
From: costrowski75

4a. ADMIN/Re: dehydrated food
From: costrowski75

5.1. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Christina Veit
5.2. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Christina Veit
5.3. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Casey Post
5.4. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Andrea

6a. Do you all rotate Fish oil Brand??
From: Yasuko herron
6b. Re: Do you all rotate Fish oil Brand??
From: Andrea

7a. Re: Second day of raw feeding...
From: Yasuko herron
7b. Feeding wing and thigh separately to large dogs
From: steph.sorensen

8a. Re: chicken eggs
From: MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com
8b. Re: chicken eggs
From: Sonja

9a. PIG HEAD AND MAGGOTS...
From: LaUrA
9b. Re: PIG HEAD AND MAGGOTS...
From: Andrea
9c. Re: PIG HEAD AND MAGGOTS...
From: PAM CURL

10.1. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
From: darkstardog

11a. Re: Panting and lethargy
From: Andrea

12a. Re: Frothy vomit
From: Nathalie Poulin

13a. Re: gnaw-worthy bones
From: Yasuko herron

14. Are goldfish ok to eat?
From: Mary Whetsel

Messages
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1a. legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "kobeesmom" Momvella@aol.com kobeesmom
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:31 am ((PDT))

Have a quick question . I made up a batch of raw food for Kobi. Needed
some veggies so I used a package of frozen Broccoli mix. It had some
pinto beans in the mix. I never heard of uncooked beans being
dangerous but I read in this months dog Journal mag that they are if
there uncooked. I made a 2 month supply. Do I have to throw this out?
Anybody else heard of this? Thanks in advance for the replies.
Cindy

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:54 am ((PDT))

Hi, Cindy!
Throw it out. ALL veggies are species INappropriate and
therefore unhealthy for dogs.

Buy some nice whole raw chickens and feed them to Kobi.

Raw meat, edible bones and organs are all he needs to be healthy.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Have a quick question . I made up a batch of raw food for Kobi. Needed
> some veggies so I used a package of frozen Broccoli mix. It had some
> pinto beans in the mix. I never heard of uncooked beans being
> dangerous but I read in this months dog Journal mag that they are if
> there uncooked. I made a 2 month supply. Do I have to throw this out?
> Anybody else heard of this? Thanks in advance for the replies.
> Cindy
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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1c. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:01 am ((PDT))

>I used a package of frozen Broccoli mix

Hi.This list is for raw feeding and I don't think peopleon thislist don't feed home cooked food to dogs and don't feed veggie too.

One thing,I think I have readsomewhere that broccoli surpress thyroid function.

I maybe wrong,but certain veggie aggrevitate dogs knee if dog were having arthritis and certain veggie surpress thyroid function as well.

I don't know about bean but I know that Macadamia nuts are fatal to dog andshould not be fed.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Weaning pups from Mom to raw
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:36 am ((PDT))

"Hi everyone, I am needing help with weaning puppies from Mom's milk to a
raw diet. I am new to feeding a raw diet and never had puppies raised on a
raw diet and very excited to have a litter raised on raw.Could someone
please help me with this. Thanks in advance for any help you guys can
offer."

I started mine on ground meat and organic goats milk at 4 weeks; I started
with ground venison, that at around 5 weeks they started playing with
chicken wings, not really eating the bone, but tearing the meat off; then at
around 6 weeks they were eating bone in breast (again, not all of the bone
yet really) but it quickly moves on from their. They were not on ground for
very long.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: Weaning pups from Mom to raw
Posted by: "Rebecca Little" pbgs@delhitel.net canucme278
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:01 am ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

I did ground turkey and goats milk and they had NO problem at all switching over matter of fact they were FAR easier then trying to get them to eat the junk dog food manufacturers say they should eat!
Rebecca Little
Peakes Brook German Shepherds
http://sites.centralpets.com/mammals/peakesbrookgsd/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: Tina Berry
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Weaning pups from Mom to raw

www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: chicken egg question need input.
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:45 am ((PDT))

, MustBLuvSpaniels@... wrote:
>
> One of my dog is allergic to chicken, should I assume he is also
allergic to
> chicken eggs, or are they different?
*****
If your dog is allergic to chicken, chicken eggs are probably not such
a hot idea. How do you know your dog is allergic to chicken?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. ADMIN/Re: dehydrated food
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:52 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tamarabajema" <tamarabajema@...>
wrote:
>
> I have seen that feeding dehydrated food as a treat is not uncommon,
so
> I am assuming that it is okay to do.
*****
Tamara, you can feed dehyrated food as a treat and many foods are quite
suitable for dehydrating. But the process of dehydrating is off topic
for the Rawfeeding list and "how to" posts will be rerouted.

Please everyone, take all dehydrating conversations to RawChat.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (2)
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5.1. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Christina Veit" friztin@earthlink.net FRIZTIN
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:04 am ((PDT))

"Chicken necks and hearts are pretty small and don't require much in
the way of chewing. Does Joe finish his dinner really quickly? "

Well, He normally do gulps whatever he finds. I was hand feeding him at
first (and when fed him necks) to make sure he wasn't eating too fast, so he
ate piece by piece. This particular meal, he ate it directly from the bowl
because didn't have the necks..
-----

"It was the mixture of veggies et all that he ate before he
vomited the first time, right?"

Yeah, it was a mix (my husband just told me it was the lunch what he
vomited... it actually was in his stomach for about 4 hours before he
vomited it totally undigested). I feel very guilty right now :(
-----

"Many owners think their dog is sad at first when in fact, they are just
calm for the first time"
Oh no.. this is not normal, is not just lack of activity, he is really
depressed. He wouldn't come if I call him, no eat or drink. He was very
"serious" the first days, he didn't want to play much, just wanted to eat

"How are Joe's poops?"
The poops are small and in good thick consistency. They are just a little
bit more pasty that the first days. I'm taking him outside right now.. let's
see how is today.
-----

He might just have an upset stomach and he doesn't feel like eating until
he's better. You could fast him for
today and offer some water and the broth you made to give him fluids.

I thought so. Well he already fasted yesterday, do you think that fasting
him today again would be appropriate? I just offered him a dollop of yogurt
with no luck, he looks at me like telling me "are you crazy? This smell like
^%$%$#". Like it makes him sicker... that happens with anything, even raw
lean meat. The only food I have handy right now I think it would work is
ground lean meat (for human consumption, which will eventually end in some
yummy hamburgers)
-----

I will wait a little bit more before taking him to the vet. You are right, I
don't need to give the Vet any details about what he exactly ate... I want
to see if he feels better during the day. If not I will take him in the
afternoon. I will need to go shopping for some quarters. Thanks for your
reply... I will keep you guys posted.

Christina.

p.s.: ah... he is getting some gas coming out from his rear end now!! :\

Messages in this topic (29)
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5.2. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Christina Veit" friztin@earthlink.net FRIZTIN
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:14 am ((PDT))

Ok, we went outside and he has diarrhea; I think the color was normal but
not the consistency. He walks but he's kind of weak. He lost some weight
already (now he looks like he is in shape.. he was a little bit overweight 2
days ago).

How much time should I let him fast? I don't want him to get dehydrated :(
I'm about to force him to drink some water at least :/

Christina

p.s.: panicked yet...

Messages in this topic (29)
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5.3. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:26 am ((PDT))

>>We have been remodeling our house (the dog haven't been
> into anything, I'm 300% sure of that, since he's confined to other parts
> of
> the house), so there have been some changes going on... that made me think
> he was maybe depressed or stressed because of that.

Is there anything like paints or glues involved? Anything that gives off
fumes may be affecting him even if he's in another part of the house...and
his liver is much smaller than yours, so toxins like that will affect him
first.

> Any idea of what may be happening to him? What should I do... just let him
> fasten until he's ready to eat again? Should I be worried? My husband is
> looking at me like I was experimenting with the poor dog :/

Without knowing the detail of the remodel, I would have to guess that he's
unwell for some reason. FWIW, it most likely wasn't what you were feeding
him - no, the whole necks and veggies thing wasn't the best plan, but dogs
are pretty darn flexible in their abilities to eat less than ideal diets for
periods of time (otherwise, they'd all drop dead on kibble, right?).

How is his gum color? His temperature?

Casey

Messages in this topic (29)
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5.4. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:00 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Christina Veit" <friztin@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, we went outside and he has diarrhea; I think the color was normal
> but not the consistency.

That's ok. If he was able to wait to go outside and find a spot to poo
it isn't diarrhea, it's just loose stools. It's what you would expect
from eating a rich meal like hearts. Diarrhea is uncontrollable
explosive watery poo. Too much/too rich/too new food doesn't cause
diarrhea and dogs with true diarrhea should probably be taken to the
vet, at least IMO.

> How much time should I let him fast? I don't want him to get
> dehydrated :(

If he's still acting like he doesn't feel good you should let him fast
another day. Make sure lots of water is available if he wants it and
try giving him some homemade broth.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (29)
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6a. Do you all rotate Fish oil Brand??
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:05 am ((PDT))

Hi. I was reading magazine called Whole Dog Journal. One of the article this month was talking about dietting.

It said that since each offer their own unique combination of nutrients,it helps to rotate.
I am not sure if I interpret as writer is thinking and it may not be about Fish oil but other Vitamin supplements.

But I was curious if everybody rotate fish oil brand A to brand B etc.

It make sense that some months,feed Fish oil (oil from herring,anchovi etc)and some months Salmon oil(salmon),but do you do that?

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: Do you all rotate Fish oil Brand??
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:03 am ((PDT))

I don't intentionally rotate brands, but it happens since Itchy Pants
Geiger has a reaction to so many brands. Once apon a time I gave
Geiger fish oil that didn't make him itchy, but it was early on in
our raw journey and I didn't realize that this was a rarity so I
didn't make a note of the brand. Since then it's been hide and go
seek with the fish oil. I buy a brand. . .give it go Geiger. . .he
ends up itchy. . .Tycho gets the rest. . .I buy a new brand for
Geiger.

I hear tell that Wallmart has a soy free fish oil, but I haven't
gotten over there to check it out for myself. Anyone have ideas?
I'm up for salmon, herring, liquid, capsules, you name it.

Back to the original question (sorry about the digression, Yassy), if
and when I find a fish oil that works with Mr. Itchy Pants I doubt
I'll let it slip away again.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:

> But I was curious if everybody rotate fish oil brand A to brand B
etc.

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: Second day of raw feeding...
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:06 am ((PDT))

>Lucy, my black lab, is a picky eater, so I was worried about how she would deal with being >handed a chicken carcass. She was finished 20 minutes before my pit bull, who took
>hers over by a huge tree that she likes to lay next to and just nibbled for about 45 >minutes.

First of all,congratulation andwelcome to rawfeeding. Weare glad to hear you are doing great.

>I gave each of them a wing and a thigh the first day,

I am curious but did you feed separated wing and thigh to your dog?? It maybe better to be attached to other part of chicken for thesize of your dog.

You may read quite bit people telling others to cut the whole chicken into 4 parts or more to desired portion of the dogs.Buying a whole chicken is cheaper than getting bunch of each parts and more engaging meal for dog.

> then the body carcass (including all the breast meat) this morning. Tomorrow
>evening, they each get another wing and thigh, along with the organs that were packaged >along with the bird.

You may want to give organ after you see poo without mucous,and know that your dog do well on chicken without organ first. Moving too fast makes dogs tummy upset.

> I figured that each dog can get through a 4 lb bird in 3 days (they weigh 55lbs and 65lbs).

>The poop is hard with a coating of mucous, which I expected.

Wait till you see poo without mucous and maybe you can try chicken with organ(only smidge) .

First week,I fed just plain chicken and no organ. My dog accepted very well and no mucous poo.So,2nd week, I tried chicken liver smidge and fed chicken the second week. She did fine.

So, 3rd week,I moved on to Beef but organ stayed chicken liver,not like Beef liver.

You want to move slowly baby steps and then, you want to introduce new thing one at a time. THat makes easier for you to identify what is causing you a prob and you can tweak the dogs diet from there.

> I can't wait until their first taste of lamb, venison and pork!

Yeap,but be slow,and be patient.Too much food,Too much fat,too much new food too soon cause upset tummy too.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Feeding wing and thigh separately to large dogs
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:03 am ((PDT))

I wrote:
> >I gave each of them a wing and a thigh the first day,
>
Yassy wrote: I am curious but did you feed separated wing and
thigh to your dog?? It maybe better to be attached to other part of
chicken for thesize of your dog.
>
Answer:

Yes, I did separate, but that is only because I know how my dogs
eat. They are not rushers and prefer to take the time to chew
thoroughly. I knew it would be okay doing it this way. Besides, I
think it will make the chicken last longer, because if I just gave
them the whole bird, they would sit there until they ate the whole
bird in one sitting! I don't want them eating that much. There is
always the option of taking it away from them after a while in order
to save some, but since I'm not having issues with separating the
pieces, I'll continue to do it that way.

And thanks for the info about organ meat. I will keep it in the
fridge and try to give them some next week. I have been reading up
with all the cool sites I've been given and I am going to introduce
other meats slowly.

-Steph
Scarlet and Lucy

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: chicken eggs
Posted by: "MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com" MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com mustbluvspaniels
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:08 am ((PDT))

no problens before, He know eats turkey, beef, pork and venision. All with
no issues. I give eggs to my other dog , but am afraid to give them to the
allergic dog. My allergic dog also gets swollen ears and feet, hot spots if he
gets salmon oil. Lisa

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Messages in this topic (7)
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8b. Re: chicken eggs
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:04 am ((PDT))

I glad that there's another dog out there that has this reaction to chicken...I thought mine was the only one! I gave my dog some chicken liver a few weeks ago and she's STILL chewing the heck out of her paws. It's frustrating because it takes weeks to get out of her system, and I can't try any new proteins until she's healed. Then it just gets more frustrating if she has a bad reaction to the new protein. We have a vicious cycle going on over here!

Sonja

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Messages in this topic (7)
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9a. PIG HEAD AND MAGGOTS...
Posted by: "LaUrA" laurasue17@hotmail.com angel_2_u_23
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:14 am ((PDT))

Okay so we got a free pig head from the butcher when we went to go pick up the dog food last week. So we had put the pig head in the little plastic pool (we have one of those plastic kiddie pools for the dogs to cool off in). Eventually we thought they ate it all. We couldn't find it anywhere. Turns out Zoey buried it cuz she so kindly (not!) brought it in the house with her this morning full of dirt, when I wasn't watching (we have the doggie door). I later found her chewing away on what little was left of the head. She got up and walked away from it to follow me around as dogs do and I went to grab a plastic bag cuz that thing was grossing me out and I wanted to throw it out. I went to go pick it up and there were maggots everywhere on the carpet. I freaked out. I hurried up and cleaned up any remnants of the pig head and attempted to vacuum, but our vacuum is apparently still broken. So I got online really quick to search for a method to remove maggots from your carpet. I kept reading that the best method is to pour boiling water mixed with bleach on them. SO I did, but now I have splashes of bleached carpet. Steven is going to kill me. I think most them are dead or gone. I have wiped with a rag and sprayed with bug spray. I feel like I have tried it all. I stand around staring at the carpet looking to see if there is more or not. Analyzing the carpet is killing my back. Now I worry and wonder about the dogs. Will they be okay or will they get sick? Do you know anything else I can do about the carpet? Ever have this happen to you? OH man I have the creepy crawlers now. I am so grossed out. I am paranoid they will be everywhere. Any suggestions about the carpet or the dogs? The dogs "seem" fine right now. I am on digest with a lot of groups so if you know anything at all that can help me quickly please email me directly at laurasue17@hotmail.com
Thanks-
Laura
Proud Mommy to Miss Samantha (10 years old going on 16! LOL!!) and step mom to Heather -17, Nikki - 14 and Michelle - 9 - the most beautiful girls in the world!!!!!
Mom to furbabies: Snoopy (male - neutered - 11 month old - pit mix - 60lbs.) and Zoey (super smart hearing impaired female - spayed - 6 month old - pit mix - approx. 40lbs.)

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Messages in this topic (3)
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9b. Re: PIG HEAD AND MAGGOTS...
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:03 am ((PDT))

Yikes. All I can say is yikes.

Umm, as far as eating the gross head, the dogs should be fine. They
just got some extra protein from the maggots is all. However, I'd
keep them out of the living room for a while if I were you. Bleach
and bug spray residue will make them a lot sicker than the maggots
will.

I wish I had some advice on the carpet, but I can't think of anything
right now. Maybe you could rent one of those steam cleaners and give
the carpet a good deep cleaning? Go out and get a nice throw rug to
sit over the bleached spot?

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "LaUrA" <laurasue17@...> wrote:
>
> I went to go pick it up and there were maggots everywhere on the
carpet. I freaked out. I hurried up and cleaned up any remnants of
the pig head and attempted to vacuum, but our vacuum is apparently
still broken. So I got online really quick to search for a method to
remove maggots from your carpet. I kept reading that the best method
is to pour boiling water mixed with bleach on them. SO I did, but
now I have splashes of bleached carpet. Steven is going to kill me.
I think most them are dead or gone. I have wiped with a rag and
sprayed with bug spray.

Messages in this topic (3)
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9c. Re: PIG HEAD AND MAGGOTS...
Posted by: "PAM CURL" bpcurl@verizon.net bpcurl
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:04 am ((PDT))

Actually you did more then needed to be done with the carpet. All you
have to do is just pick up the maggots and throw them away. There aren't
any hidden "things" from them. If you should happen to miss one, it will
simply develop into a fly. Maggots are "baby" or pre- flies.
As far as your dog eating them--they are just protein, no harm done there
either.
Sorry you have bleach spots on your carpet :-( . Now have a glass of
wine or a cup of tea and relax!!!!
Pam C

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/
>
>
>
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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10.1. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
Posted by: "darkstardog" darkstardog@charter.net darkstardog
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:15 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cypressbunny" <cypressbunny@...>
wrote:
>
>

> *** There is no question that the dog stomach produces amylase
> and/or amylase precursors. I can point you to that research if you
> care that much. Even carnivores need to process a small quantity of
> carbs--liver has lots of glycogen, for example.
>

Okay, I've never heard that the stomach secretes amylase. So I'd be
interested in the research.
That there's a small amount of amylase in the blood supply in the
stomach, or in the individual cells of the stomach, or possibly some
pancreatic amylase in the stomach contents due to reflux from the
intestine - that would make sense. But as far as an enzyme secreted
into the stomach for digestion of food, that's new to me.

There is definitely amylase produced by the pancreas which is
available to digest carbs in the intestine.

Marty

Messages in this topic (35)
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11a. Re: Panting and lethargy
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:00 am ((PDT))

Am I correct in remembering that this is the pup's 3rd or so day
eating raw? It sounds to me like the little guy has a tummy ache.
You fed a lot of food at first, which can cause digestive upset, and
today he's had pork and chicken and two eggs. I'm all for giving
pups variety quickly, but if he's not feeling his best you should
stick with plain old boring chicken quarters. FWIW neither of my
dogs can eat two eggs in a day without getting gurgly tummies/sulfur
farts/ loose stool.

Ideally, yes, small pups should eat several times a day. From what I
gather this is because a small pup's digestive system isn't equipped
to digest a whole day's worth of food at once, and as they get older
they can eat bigger meals without losing the nutrients to loose
sloppy poo. Yes, you want a healthy pup, but you don't want to let
him become a roly poly either.

If this was the first time the pupster tried pork and/or eggs, I
think we have pinpointed the reason for the lack of energy. I know
it's hard to hold back on variety when there are so many cool things
you can feed, but for now stick with plain old chicken until he gets
the hang of things. Small meals for now so his tummy recovers, a day
of small meals won't hurt him, I promise. Let us know how he and you
are doing.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ptmagi" <ptmagi@...> wrote:

> I did withhold his dinner last night, and tried to be creative today
> in filling him up without taxing him. Gave him a 1# piece of bone-
> in pork shoulder that he worked on for almost an hour before trying
> to "bury" it. Scooped it up and put it in the frig. At lunchtime
> he was still/again acting pretty lethargic, so I gave him a couple
> of raw eggs. He had NO idea what to do with them. I finally
> punctured them so he could see it was a familiar food and he
> scarfed them down. Then gave him the remaining bit of pork
> shoulder (mostly bone by this time) from his breakfast.
<snip>
> when dinnertime rolled around five hours later I gave him a 12
> ounce chicken leg quarter.

Messages in this topic (8)
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12a. Re: Frothy vomit
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:01 am ((PDT))

Thanks for your input.
She started drinking the water in the morning, but she
was still a little off. Anyways I had to go out, and
when I came back she was full of energy and seemingly
back to her old self.
She ate a bone-in turkey breast (faster than she
normally would) and with a few coughing hacks, she
seems to be fully recovered.

Maybe she got into something in the garbage that we
didn't notice, anyways not sure.

Nathalie

>
> If it were enhanced it would say so on the package.
> Enhancement is
> not really the gremlin its sometimes touted to be
> anyway. It's
> often a convenient thing to blame digestive problems
> on when you
> can't find anything else.

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Messages in this topic (8)
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13a. Re: gnaw-worthy bones
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:01 am ((PDT))

>I am a big fan of whole cow feet, not hooves--feet

Hi,Chris. I wasreading up old post and found this post from you.

I have got Cow hooves from hare today gone tomorrow in PA(it is so huge! andweigh about 5lb,but it was cut into half and one is as much length as my tip of finger to elbows,maybe about 1 foot for cutted one part?).

and,I was planning to give it to palette to have fun time tomorrow(tomorrow is her BD).

The one I got is with fur. About palm size is cow hooves and second half is looking foot with fur.

Is this too th breaker or something?

I normally not comfortable feeding any animal's leg part except poultry but, I thought this big cow hooves/foot will be ok thinking she would not crunch down the bone.

I of course going to supervise her but,is this dangerous thing to try feed for fun??

Anyone has fed Cow hooves from Haretoday gone tomorrow in PA??

If so,would you tell me how your dogs were?

thanks,

yassy

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Messages in this topic (16)
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14. Are goldfish ok to eat?
Posted by: "Mary Whetsel" chickiboo@gmail.com cooljavachic
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:05 am ((PDT))

I have a bit of a pond goldfish overpopulation issue that needs to be
resolved. I hate to just kill the fish... I've tried giving them
away, but have had little or no luck. Now that I'm raw feeding, I'm
wondering if they'd make decent food?

My cats are resisting the move to raw and I thought the fish might be
extra tempting, but I suppose if people feed whole fish to dogs it
might broaden their diet too. The problem is that I can't seem to
find any information on whether or not goldfish are appropriate to
eat. They are Comet Goldfish anywhere between 3 and 7 inches long.
They've been in my pond, no chemical treatment... What do you think?
Would you feed the excess goldfish to your pets?

-Mary

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