[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11970

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Concerned about lethargic pooch
From: jrychcik01@comcast.net
1b. Re: Concerned about lethargic pooch
From: cmhausrath

2a. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Momvella@aol.com
2b. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Momvella@aol.com
2c. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Momvella@aol.com
2d. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Giselle
2e. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Giselle
2f. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Sandee Lee
2g. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: costrowski75

3.1. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Christina Veit
3.2. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Daisy Foxworth

4.1. Re: constipation
From: Yasuko herron
4.2. Re: constipation
From: Laurie Swanson
4.3. Re: constipation
From: Linda Edgington

5a. Re: legumes Unhealthy? - Cheryl
From: tottime47

6.1. Hi
From: Stephanie
6.2. Re: Hi
From: costrowski75

7a. One week in..updates!
From: lar07911
7b. Re: One week in..updates!
From: Laurie Swanson
7c. Re: One week in..updates!
From: coriowen

8a. Re: gnaw-worthy bones
From: costrowski75

9. New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
From: ferrarious

10a. Re: Do you all rotate Fish oil Brand??
From: costrowski75

11a. Re: Feeding wing and thigh separately to large dogs
From: costrowski75

12a. Re: apple cider vinegar & digestive enzymes
From: Ivette Casiano

Messages
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1a. Re: Concerned about lethargic pooch
Posted by: "jrychcik01@comcast.net" jrychcik01@comcast.net jrychcik07
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

Could there be another factor? I know my yorkie who was started on raw a few months ago, and recently developed the same symptoms. She tested positive for lyme's disease last week.

Good luck!

Jennifer
Spiritual Danes
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "Pam Vojtas" <pam.vojtas@datacore.com>

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:14:57
To:<rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [rawfeeding] Concerned about lethargic pooch

Hi,

I posted 5 weeks ago and have been feeding my two pooches raw ever
since. We're getting the hang of it!

But I am getting very concerned about my two year old terrier, who
recently seems very tired and uninterested (someone described it quite
appropriately as 'sad'). He has no energy and 'trots' at our agility
classes, where just weeks ago he was a little speed demon. I have seen
several other posts with the same lament, and this reply:

As for acting lethargic, raw fed dogs don't have the same carb fed
frenzied energy that ki**le fed dogs do. Many owners think their dog is
sad at first when in fact, they are just calm for the first time.

Any comments on whether or not this new behavior is truly raw-related
and whether there is any remedy? I miss my happy energetic little guy!

Pam (and Charlie and Quincy)

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Messages in this topic (12)
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1b. Re: Concerned about lethargic pooch
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:03 pm ((PDT))

"Pam Vojtas" <pam.vojtas@...> wrote:

> But I am getting very concerned about my two year old terrier, who
> recently seems very tired and uninterested

My dog certainly didn't become lethargic when I started raw feeding --
if anything, his energy and stamina increased. He happily joined me
for 5-8 mile runs (he's a good-sized dog, and I'm a slow runner!) and
always had energy to do more. He's 13ish now, so he IS less
energetic than he used to be (no more long runs), but he still has
well-balanced energy and **plenty** of enthusiasm. In other words, I
wouldn't attribute this change to raw feeding.

BUT I do have one question: where do you live? B/c where I am,
central Virginia, it has been HOT as all-get-out, with the humidity
over 90%, for weeks. Everyone here is feeling it!

If it's not hot or humid where you are, I'd do some further
investigating to find out where your guy's energy went. What exactly
are you feeding? When did you notice a drop in his energy? Has
anything else changed in his environment? Etc...

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (12)
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2a. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Momvella@aol.com" Momvella@aol.com kobeesmom
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Marty,
I never thought of that.They were already in a mix.It was broccoli carrots pintobeans,stingbeans and kidney. They are called a rancho mix.I just put them in a blender frozen and made a veggie slop with applecider vinigar and pumpkin and a lil garlic. than I added it to my ground meat.
???????????????????????????????????????? Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: darkstardog <darkstardog@charter.net>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 4:18 pm
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: legumes Unhealthy?

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kobeesmom" <Momvella@...> wrote:

>

> Have a quick question . I made up a batch of raw food for Kobi. Needed

> some veggies so I used a package of frozen Broccoli mix. It had some

> pinto beans in the mix. I never heard of uncooked beans being

> dangerous but I read in this months dog Journal mag that they are if

> there uncooked. I made a 2 month supply. Do I have to throw this out?

> Anybody else heard of this? Thanks in advance for the replies.

> Cindy

>

You know, it takes hours to cook raw dried pinto beans and only a few

minutes to cook broccoli. I'm guessing that the pinto beans in that

broccoli mix are already cooked. So you can make the decision to use

it or not, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have to worry specifically

about raw legumes in the food. That's my guess, but the company should

be able to tell you.

Marty

________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (19)
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2b. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Momvella@aol.com" Momvella@aol.com kobeesmom
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:36 pm ((PDT))

I let him gnaw on rec bones. Marrow bones and such. Had to push a chicken wing down his throat once . Scared the life out of me. From now on I grind.He is a shih Tzu
????????????????????????????????????????? Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: Olga <olga.drozd@gmail.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 5:49 pm
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: legumes Unhealthy?

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Momvella@... wrote:

> Thanks for the reply. I do only feed raw. The veggie mix is raw. My

shih Tzu is a gluper so I grind his meat with bones than add the

veggie mix to it. Been on raw for 8 years now.

> ?????????????????????????????? Cindy

Hi Cindy,

Raw or not, dogs don't need veggies. And if your dog is a gulper you

need to feed him bigger pieces, not grind his food into a mush. Aim

for feeding pieces that are bigger than his head, he can't swallow

that. :)

Olga

________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (19)
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2c. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Momvella@aol.com" Momvella@aol.com kobeesmom
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:37 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for clearing that up. I have been feeding raw for about 8 years I add a very small amount of veggies to kobi mix always varying them maybe about a 1/2 a cup to a 2 month mix.Most of the books that I have read said to put some in but not to over power the protein . I would say maybe 1/4 of it is veggie maybe even a little lower.
?????????????????????? Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 5:45 pm
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] legumes Unhealthy?

>The veggie mix is raw.

Well, I guess the way I said was misunderstood i guess.

No,here on this list,people feed raw meat,raw organ and raw bone and no veggies (cooked or raw).

Veggies are carb and,dog does not need carb but protin and fat most.

You could give veggies if small amount as treats,but not in part of diet menu here.

In your feeding carb is dominating over protins??

yassy

---------------------------------

Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.

Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

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________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (19)
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2d. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:53 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Cindy!
Raw or not, vegetables are entirely unnecessary for dogs.

Why do you think you have to make 'veggie slop'? To try to make the
nutrients in veggies more accessible to your dog, so he can digest
them. NO way.

This list supports a species appropriate raw whole prey model of
feeding. Dogs are wolves, except for their outer wrapper. Wolves eat
whole prey. Herbivores, which are prey, eat vegetation. Wolves, who
are carnivores, eat herbivores. Each animal gets the most optimal
nutrition for its biological needs from the source it evolved to eat,
its ecological niche.

All your dog needs is raw meat, edible bones and organs. 80% meat
(muscle, fat, skin, connective tissue), 10% edible bone and 10%
organs. (5% liver, 5% 'other')

He has his own teeth, and can learn better how to chew his meat if you
don't prechew it for him. Serve hunks of meat 'n bone bigger than his
head. Let him engage with the meal and obtain the physical, mental and
dental activity he needs for optimal health.

Sell your grinder and get a freezer to hold some lovely meat for your
dog instead. : )

Save yourself lots of time and money, eat the veggies yourself.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I never thought of that. They were already in a mix. It was
broccoli, carrots, pinto beans, string beans and kidney. They are
called a rancho mix. I just put them in a blender frozen and made a
veggie slop with apple cider vinegar and pumpkin and a lil garlic.
than I added it to my ground meat.
> ???????????????????????????????????????? Cindy

Messages in this topic (19)
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2e. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:12 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Cindy!
"Rec" bones are wreck bones! Dogs should have bones that are
mostly consumable. Bones sold under the label of "rec", recreational,
marrow, dog or soup are euphemisms for tooth breakers and wearers. Any
bones not eaten in a meal are not needed by the dog and should be
tossed into the trash. Never feed the hard, dense bones from large
animals. Think how much weight those bones have to hold up, and how
strong they have to be!

Dogs should get their 'recreation'; physical mental and dental
activity, from the meat 'n bones they eat. Their food should be
'bigger than their head', meaning big enough to eliminate the problem
of hasty gulping. A dogs digestion doesn't start in its mouth, he just
needs to tear or crunch off a chunk that will fit down his throat and
swallow.

That's how we can be helpful to them, by watching and monitoring and
assisting when necessary with bringing up or pulling out a hunk of
meat or bit of bone in an emergency. How can a dog that has been used
to kibble all his life 'just know' the right way to eat real food? He
doesn't, he needs to learn by trial and error. If it doesn't fit,
crunch some more. Doesn't sit right in the stomach? NP, Hork it up,
and re eat it. They're dogs, not people, with people manners and mores.

Shih Tzu or Papillon, Labrador or Newfoundland, they are all wolves
under their skin.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I let him gnaw on rec bones. Marrow bones and such. Had to push a
chicken wing down his throat once. Scared the life out of me. From now
on I grind. He is a Shih Tzu
> ????????????????????????????????????????? Cindy

Messages in this topic (19)
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2f. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:15 pm ((PDT))

Cindy,

Rec bones are more commonly known as "wreck bones" for the tooth damage they
do.

Far better to ditch those, feed your little guy some nice large whole
portions that he can't swallow whole or choke on...much healthier for his
gums and teeth as well as digestive system. Wings are far too small and
contain too much bone.

Dogs are carnivores...they require meat, a little bone and some organs.
They have no need for carbohydrates. Skip the veggies!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <Momvella@aol.com>

>
> I let him gnaw on rec bones. Marrow bones and such. Had to push a chicken
wing down his throat once . Scared the life out of me. From now on I
grind.He is a shih Tzu
> ????????????????????????????????????????? Cindy

Messages in this topic (19)
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2g. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:21 pm ((PDT))

"rosey031801" <rosey031801@...> wrote:
>
> I don't give my dog anything but raw meat. I thought this whole group
> did that. I thought they are not susposed to get veggies.
*****
Not as a significant part of the raw diet, no. Perhaps some people
were responding to the specific question without actually addressing
the larger issue of "why?". There is no need to feed vegetables,
fruits, grains, or legumes. You're correct.

Occasional veggies (tablescraps, windfall) are not likely to screw up a
good raw diet. Intentional veggies are something else entirely,
especially unfriendly ones (exactly like legumes!). They are
inappropriate, yes.

The veggies my dogs get as scraps do not even show up on radar.
They're not likely to get legumes though, ever.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (19)
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3.1. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Christina Veit" friztin@earthlink.net FRIZTIN
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

"Homeopathics work equally well for animals as humans, but only when the
totality of symptoms indicate the particular remedy is the simillimum."

Well... this one in particular (Carbo Veg) is for nausea and heartburn, also
for gas and stomach discomforts.

I found this in the internet:

"Carbo Vegetabilis (Vegetable Charcoal) is a homeopathic relief remedy to
aid someone who is about to collapse or has low vitality after an illness"

"Carbo Veg is from vegetable charcoal, well known for its ability to absorb
toxins in the body.

Carbo veg is great for excess gas in your stomach, indigestion, bloating,
belching.

Calm your digestive system from overeating, eating wrong foods, poorly or
slow digestion, eating bad combinations of food. Carbo veg is indicated for
conditions from toxicity such as fatigue, constipation and diarrhea, feeling
under the weather with colds. Tinnitus with dizziness. Rattling cough."
-----

"Good luck with your pooch."

Thanks! He looks pretty stable right now, he took some zips of broth, no
vomiting today so far!
-----

Christina.

Messages in this topic (36)
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3.2. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:27 pm ((PDT))

>
> "Homeopathics work equally well for animals as humans, but only
when the
> totality of symptoms indicate the particular remedy is the
simillimum."
>
> Well... this one in particular (Carbo Veg) is for nausea and
heartburn, also
> for gas and stomach discomforts.
>
> I found this in the internet:

Hi, Christina, that's a good start, but it is better to work with
both a Materia Medica (a book describing in great deal the features
of different remedies) and a repertory (a book that lists and also
rates remedies associated with very specific symptoms) in fine-tuning
which remedies are most likely and then reading everything you can on
those individual remedies. It is also an art to know which symptoms
are worth paying attention to. Still learning myself. You may be
right about carbo veg, but I think you need to know more about that
remedy and the others which may fit the symptoms.

By all means learn what you can about homeopathy for both yourself
and your pets! There are some sister lists here at Yahoo where you
can get more information.

>
> Thanks! He looks pretty stable right now, he took some zips of
broth, no
> vomiting today so far!
> -----
>
That's great! Maybe he has settled down for now.

Daisy

Messages in this topic (36)
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4.1. Re: constipation
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

>My dog is having a hard time pooping

Hi.My suggestions are..

1> read many postings.You will be able to find poopy prob related posts when you search archives

2>Give more boneless meat,reduce bone intake

3>Give liver

4>Go for walk because walking encourage bowel movement.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

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Messages in this topic (35)
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4.2. Re: constipation
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:49 pm ((PDT))

Hi Linda,

Do you mean that your dog is pooping less, or is he actually straining
to go? Has he been pooping? If so, what's coming out? :-) Raw-fed
dogs poop less than kibble-fed, and sometimes a dog won't go for 2 or 3
days when they first start. But some people feed too much bone, which
can cause constipation and hard, dry stool. Not sure how much of each
type of food you've given and what body parts--are you feeding mostly
meat with some bone?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Linda Edgington <lindagail849@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi, My dog is having a hard time pooping.

Messages in this topic (35)
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4.3. Re: constipation
Posted by: "Linda Edgington" lindagail849@yahoo.com lindagail849
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:40 pm ((PDT))

he is actually straining to poop and I have to "pinch" it out. Gross, I know. But on other times it is loose or sticks to his hair anyway. He has had more baths than a dog should have I'm sure. Yes he has prob had more bone than just meat. How often should bone be fed? Once a week? or more. I am having such a prob with him on this. My cat is doing wonderful, transistioned well. I don't seem to have this prob with K......but I'm not going back to that. To the moderator, I don't know how to trim my posts. Linda

Laurie Swanson <laurie@mckinneyphoto.com> wrote: Hi Linda,

Do you mean that your dog is pooping less, or is he actually straining
to go? Has he been pooping? If so, what's coming out? :-) Raw-fed
dogs poop less than kibble-fed, and sometimes a dog won't go for 2 or 3
days when they first start. But some people feed too much bone, which
can cause constipation and hard, dry stool. Not sure how much of each
type of food you've given and what body parts--are you feeding mostly
meat with some bone?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Linda Edgington <lindagail849@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi, My dog is having a hard time pooping.

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (35)
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5a. Re: legumes Unhealthy? - Cheryl
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:48 pm ((PDT))

Cheryl,

You have it right, we don't feed veggies....

Sometimes a new person will come on board that is still
feeding them till "teach" them about the error of the ways, lol.

Carol, Charkee & Moli ( meat please!)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rosey031801" <rosey031801@...>
wrote:
>
> I don't give my dog anything but raw meat. I thought this whole group
> did that. I thought they are not susposed to get veggies.
> Cheryl

Messages in this topic (19)
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6.1. Hi
Posted by: "Stephanie" stef.scott@yahoo.com stef.scott
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:08 pm ((PDT))

Hello all. I am new to the group. I have 2 standard poodle pups, one 9
months and the other 3.5 months. Been learning a lot about feeding raw
and think I'm ready to make the switch now. Want to learn as much as I
can so my boys will be healthy. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to
learn. I have lots of questions so I hope that's ok :)

Messages in this topic (27)
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6.2. Re: Hi
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:32 pm ((PDT))

"Stephanie" <stef.scott@...> wrote:
Been learning a lot about feeding raw
> and think I'm ready to make the switch now.
*****
Good!

Want to learn as much as I
> can so my boys will be healthy. Thanks for giving me the
opportunity to learn.
*****
Gooder yet!

I have lots of questions so I hope that's ok :)
*****
Questions are fine and dandy. I recommend you do some more reading.
Two websites to check out pronto are:
http://rawfed.com
http://rawfeddogs.net

And please, if you have not browsed the list archives, do so. Just
search for a likely topic, or type in a message number and see what
ya get. In order to access the archives, you must obtain a
Yahoogroups ID number. At the bottom of the list emails you receive
you will find an appropriate link for one.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (27)
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7a. One week in..updates!
Posted by: "lar07911" lar07911@yahoo.com lar07911
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:32 pm ((PDT))

So, I posted several weeks about about waiting to start raw until I
had a bigger freezer...never mind that! I just decided to take the
plunge. My dog has transitioned wonderfully and even put on some much
needed weight. She has been doing so well I decided yesterday I would
put an egg with her chicken quarter.

After that meal she threw up brown and yellowish chunks. I had fed
her a treat and I am suspecting that might be the actual culprit, but
wanted to ask you all first.

Also, I found some chicken meat in my freezer, but it does contain sea
salt and chicken broth. Is that still ok to give?

Are pork neck bones ok to give? When can I start introducing new
protein sources?

She is only 17 lbs, how much should I actually be feeding? Is one
chicken quarter a day plenty? I was feeding her one breast in the
morning and a chicken quarter at night. I am already noticing some
weight gain, but she needed it. No matter how much food I used to
feed her...she just couldn't keep weight on very well. No visible
ribs, but close. She is looking great! Thank you to everyone on this
list!

Laura

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: One week in..updates!
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi Laura,

Congrats!

You'll probably be feeding in the ball park of 1/2# per day--adjust
as needed.

I've only fed eggs a few times, but my dog doesn't seem to do that
well with them. He kind of spits up, and I think he might get
itchy. But I'm going to give it a few more tries. For your dog, I'd
just give the eggs a break, especially since your dog is a newbie,
and then try one again in a couple weeks or so and see how she does.

Some dogs do fine w/the "enhanced" meats, but many have problems
(loose stool, itchiness, etc.). I don't like giving my dog added
salt or other ingredients. It's up to you.

I feed my dog (20# Boston) big pork necks in hunks that are about 1#
ea. or bigger. I get them from an Asian market. If your dog is a
dainty eater, you might be able to feed smaller pieces than that, but
the bigger and less-sawed, the better, to minimize gulping/choking.
My dog was more of a gulper in the beginning, but after almost a year
of the prey model diet, he's slower and more careful about how he
eats.

Many people feed chicken or one other protein source without organs
for a couple weeks in the beginning, to minimize chances of loose
stool. You can do that, or you can introduce more variety and then
back up and simplify if you have any issues. It sometimes takes
newbie dogs' systems a bit to get up to speed. Organs and eggs are
more loosening, bone helps firm up the stool, too much bone is
constipating.

Laurie

Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: One week in..updates!
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:11 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lar07911" <lar07911@...> wrote:
>
> So, I posted several weeks about about waiting to start raw until I
> had a bigger freezer...never mind that! I just decided to take the
> plunge. My dog has transitioned wonderfully and even put on some
much needed weight. She has been doing so well I decided yesterday I
would put an egg with her chicken quarter.

> After that meal she threw up brown and yellowish chunks. I had fed
> her a treat and I am suspecting that might be the actual culprit,
but wanted to ask you all first.

It depends on what the treat was? I would definitely think it's the
treat, if it contains all the junk kibble contains, that made her
sick. When you finally get her system used to the new raw diet, at
only 17lbs. I would think even a small dog bisquit could push her
system out of whack again. The raw egg could possibly do it but I
would suspect the treat quicker.

I am new at this also, and I took some time to read the "Raw Food
Myths" and it answered a TON of questions for me. I think anyone
thinking about raw or just starting out on raw should have this as a
good reference, as well as this group.

> Also, I found some chicken meat in my freezer, but it does contain
sea
> salt and chicken broth. Is that still ok to give?

I'd save that chicken for you, she needs as close to natural as she
can get and the salt and the "broth" they use aren't natural.

>> She is only 17 lbs, how much should I actually be feeding? Is one
> chicken quarter a day plenty? I was feeding her one breast in the
> morning and a chicken quarter at night. I am already noticing some
> weight gain, but she needed it. No matter how much food I used to
> feed her...she just couldn't keep weight on very well. No visible
> ribs, but close. She is looking great! Thank you to everyone on
this
> list!

It sounds like you have her at the weight you would like and she
needed it, but if I fed my adult 17lb. Dachshund the amount you are
feeding, I could see her putting on weight. It should be about 3% of
her body weight per day. I had to use a scale at first to know
approx. what my 4 dogs would eat per day. I also have a 10 mos. old
Dachshund that is very thin and doesn't seem to put on any weight
with the 3% body weight per day so I am going to up her intake. She
is still growing so I think I am going to start feeding her 3 X day.
I hope I helped a little.
Cori

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: gnaw-worthy bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:32 pm ((PDT))

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:

> The one I got is with fur. About palm size is cow hooves and
second half is looking foot with fur.
>
> Is this too th breaker or something?
*****
Hard to know. The cow feet I give to my dogs are whole (although
without skin...lucky you!) and much of the work that goes into
tackling a cow foot is getting the skin off. A split foot may be
easier to break apart since one side is already exposed. My dogs
usually eat the skin, the joint bones and the connective tissue, and
get most of the marrow from the length of cannon bone (I think it
is?. When they're down to bare cannon bone, I take the bone away.

I don't know how much easier half a foot will be to dismantle. For a
good gnawer, the hide ought not present an insurmountable problem,
and of course the open side provides ready access to the bones. So
how much "trouble" she can get herself into is, I guess, up to you to
discover! If halving the foot allows her to make quick work of it,
perhaps next time you might try an unsliced foot.

Whole, cow feet are generally the only "rec" bones I will give my
adult dogs. And that's because there's a job to be done before they
even get to the hunk of weight bearing bone. Which of course they
have to turn in, like good little Doobies.

I think you should give the foot try and be there to call it quits if
you aren't comfortable with her performance.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (17)
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9. New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
Posted by: "ferrarious" ferrarious@yahoo.com ferrarious
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:48 pm ((PDT))

Hi,
I have two dogs, 4 years mixbreed bitch that ate for her all life
k***le food, and 3.5 month old Vizsla puppy who ate k***ble and
chicken+rise until now. After reading the mailing list for few days and
anything I could find on the net I switched to raw. For the past two
days they ate only chicken. I got whole chickens and they got it parts
by parts. Every thing was ok until the pup woke me up now and I took
him outside. He had diarrhea and I think worms ( it was dark so I am
not sure about the worms ). In the evening both of the dogs were ok (
it only took them more time until they pooped and I didn't see worms ).
What should I do? Not to feed in the morning and give them both anti
worms treatment and feed them, chicken in the evening?

While I am writing he threw up a little ( grass and a little part of
the bone ) and pooped liquid at the house, his first time, he never
pooped at the house before.

Thank you in advance,
Dan.

Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: Do you all rotate Fish oil Brand??
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:03 pm ((PDT))

"Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> I hear tell that Wallmart has a soy free fish oil, but I haven't
> gotten over there to check it out for myself. Anyone have ideas?
> I'm up for salmon, herring, liquid, capsules, you name it.
*****
Update on Walmart soy-free FBO.
It appears to be gone.

A while back I found at Walmart both Rexall brand FBO and Rexall brand
SO. Nice soy-free capsules, good basic dose, good price. Last week I
went looking for more. Not only was no there no Rexall FBO or SO (soy-
free or otherwise) the product currently on the shelf was a 3, 6 combo
product or worse, a 3, 6, 9 combo. And soy-based to boot. Straight
FBO was still available through the standard Green Valley label, but
that's always had soy.

I was able to find (by breaking the rules and standing on a lower shelf
to reach the top of the top shelves) two last jars of the Rexall SO,
but that seems to be it, at least for the two stores I shopped.

I checked for Rexall online, and it does appear that the hot item is
now the 3, 6 combo. Boo hiss.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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11a. Re: Feeding wing and thigh separately to large dogs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:09 pm ((PDT))

"steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
>> Yes, I did separate, but that is only because I know how my dogs
> eat. They are not rushers and prefer to take the time to chew
> thoroughly. I knew it would be okay doing it this way. Besides, I
> think it will make the chicken last longer, because if I just gave
> them the whole bird, they would sit there until they ate the whole
> bird in one sitting! I don't want them eating that much. There is
> always the option of taking it away from them after a while in
order
> to save some, but since I'm not having issues with separating the
> pieces, I'll continue to do it that way.
*****
I think there is some confusion here. That your dogs can eat small
food doesn't mean small food is what you should be feeding. Food is
more than nutrition. It is exercise, dental and mental hygiene, and
fun. If your dogs can carefully dismantle a wing, they can carefully
dismantle a wing/breast quarter or a leg/thigh quarter...and they
have every right to do so.

In fact, if your dogs can carefully dismantle a whole chicken they
should have a crack at that as well. Why don't you want them to eat
that much? Can you not "sort it all out" in subsequent meals? This
would be a likely and sensible way to allow for big eating as well as
not-so-big eating. Maybe not all the time, but certainly some of the
time your dogs should have Big Food opportunities.

The issue you aren't having with separated body parts is the same
issue you won't have when you feed your dogs larger chunks o'
chicken. From the sound of it, your dogs are readier to go than you
are.

I recommend you give 'em a chance.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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12a. Re: apple cider vinegar & digestive enzymes
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:28 pm ((PDT))

<<...Please excuse my lack of knowledge, but why did you have him on DE
for three months?
Chris O...>>

I started feeding raw but he was vomitting a lot. My sister suggested DE but little did I know at the time that what I was doing wrong was feeding one meal of raw and one of ki**le. This went on for over 2 months until I switched to 100% raw a little over 3 weeks ago after an incident of vomitting and 4 days of diarrhea. It took a house of bricks to fall on us to finally make the move (that's what it took for me to convince my boyfriend to let me feed 100% raw). All's well now.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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