[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11969

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Christina Veit
1.2. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Christina Veit
1.3. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Andrea
1.4. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Christina Veit
1.5. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Daisy Foxworth

2a. Re: Feeding wing and thigh separately to large dogs
From: Olga

3.1. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
From: cypressbunny

4a. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Olga
4b. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: chrisstfo@aol.com
4c. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Andrea
4d. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: darkstardog
4e. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: rosey031801
4f. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Momvella@aol.com
4g. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Yasuko herron
4h. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Olga

5a. Re: Are goldfish ok to eat?
From: ginny wilken
5b. Re: Are goldfish ok to eat?
From: Yasuko herron

6. Suggestions for feeding a 1.5lb pup?
From: Monica

7a. Re: Frothy vomit
From: Tina Berry

8. 4 Week Old Kitten
From: Jen - E'Clat Standard Poodles

9a. Concerned about lethargic pooch
From: Pam Vojtas
9b. Re: Concerned about lethargic pooch
From: Andrea

10. Re: chicken egg
From: Penelope Quillen

11a. Re: Do you all rotate Fish oil Brand??
From: Yasuko herron

12.1. constipation
From: Linda Edgington

Messages
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1.1. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Christina Veit" friztin@earthlink.net FRIZTIN
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:07 am ((PDT))

"Is there anything like paints or glues involved? Anything that gives off
fumes may be affecting him even if he's in another part of the house...and
his liver is much smaller than yours, so toxins like that will affect him
first."

No, no fumes, paints or glues here... have been a while since we did that
part.
-----

How is his gum color? His temperature?

Gum color is black (pigmented, so I can't really tell). Temperature, maybe a
little bit down. It feels a little bit dehydrated to the touch.
-----

I've been thinking... what if I give him some Pepto-Bismol or something to
ease the symptoms...? His stomach sounds very active this morning, yesterday
was very quiet. He has been gassy too. I have Hyland's Carbo Veg 30x. I
don't know if I can give him that... I just want him to feel better :(

Christina

Messages in this topic (34)
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1.2. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Christina Veit" friztin@earthlink.net FRIZTIN
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:42 am ((PDT))

"That's ok. If he was able to wait to go outside and find a spot to poo it
isn't diarrhea, it's just loose stools"

Ok, that makes me feel better...
-----

If he's still acting like he doesn't feel good you should let him fast
another day. Make sure lots of water is available if he wants it and try
giving him some homemade broth.

He's got fresh clean water available at all times, but he doesn't want to
drink any. I just gave him 3 tablespoons and he didn't like it too much.
I'll try later with a new broth that I'm making from a cup of water and a
tablespoon of ground lean beef. He is already sniffing, nose up.. so I guess
he may want to try it. Let's see...
------

Thanks again for your help guys...

Christina.

Messages in this topic (34)
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1.3. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:09 pm ((PDT))

You can try slippery elm bark powder added to some water or a small
meatball of ground meat. They should have it at a health food store
(in powder or capsule form). The slippery elm kind of coats the
digestive tract making it less uncomfortable for the dog. I'm iffy
about giving dogs human stomach remedies since their stomach atmosphere
is so different than ours. You never know if it is actually going to
help or not.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Christina Veit" <friztin@...> wrote:

> I've been thinking... what if I give him some Pepto-Bismol or
> something to ease the symptoms...? His stomach sounds very active
> this morning, yesterday was very quiet. He has been gassy too. I
> have Hyland's Carbo Veg 30x. I don't know if I can give him that...
> I just want him to feel better :(

Messages in this topic (34)
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1.4. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Christina Veit" friztin@earthlink.net FRIZTIN
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:05 pm ((PDT))

Yeah... you are right. That's why I haven't give it to him. Carbo Veg is an
homeopathic remedy (which I bought for me, since I suffer from heartburn
myself), but I'm not sure if homeopathic vets prescribe it to animals, just
wondering if anyone here knew..

I will look for the Slippery Elm Bark powder though.

Thank you!

Christina.

"You can try slippery elm bark powder added to some water or a small
meatball of ground meat. They should have it at a health food store (in
powder or capsule form). The slippery elm kind of coats the digestive tract
making it less uncomfortable for the dog. I'm iffy about giving dogs human
stomach remedies since their stomach atmosphere is so different than ours.
You never know if it is actually going to help or not."

Messages in this topic (34)
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1.5. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:51 pm ((PDT))

Carbo Veg is an
> homeopathic remedy (which I bought for me, since I suffer from
heartburn
> myself), but I'm not sure if homeopathic vets prescribe it to
animals, just
> wondering if anyone here knew..
>
>
Homeopathics work equally well for animals as humans, but only when
the totality of symptoms indicate the particular remedy is the
simillimum.

Good luck with your pooch.

Daisy

Messages in this topic (34)
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2a. Re: Feeding wing and thigh separately to large dogs
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:41 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "steph.sorensen"
<steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
> Besides, I
> think it will make the chicken last longer, because if I just gave
> them the whole bird, they would sit there until they ate the whole
> bird in one sitting!

You can still divide the chicken in a more natural way so that each
meal can be in one piece rather than multiple ones. For example, cut
down the middle to make two half chickens, and then cut those in half
to make 4 quarters. It's better than having two wings, drumsticks,
thighs, breasts, and a back all in little bits, especially if you're
giving more than one of those anyway.

Olga

Messages in this topic (4)
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3.1. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:41 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "darkstardog" <darkstardog@...>
wrote:
>
> Okay, I've never heard that the stomach secretes amylase.
> But as far as an enzyme secreted
> into the stomach for digestion of food, that's new to me.

*** Ok, not amylase but enzyme precursors--zymogens. Which give rise
to various types of enzymes. Zymogens manufactured by stomach cells
give rise primarily to proteases, not amylases. The article I was
reading did not specify which sort of zymogens they had isolated from
canine stomach cells. My bad.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (36)
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4a. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:48 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kobeesmom" <Momvella@...> wrote:
> I made up a batch of raw food for Kobi.

While I admire all the effort you went to, it's really not necessary
to "make" raw food. You just buy meaty items (like chickens, or
chicken leg quarters, or turkey, or pork) and feed them. Make sure
that over time you're feeding lots of meat together with some bone and
organs here and there.

> Needed some veggies

You don't need any veggies. Well, you do, but your dog sure doesn't. ;)

I think we can greatly simplify the whole process for you, and your
dog will be better for it too! Broccoli, for one, often gives dogs
the toots. :D

Olga

Messages in this topic (11)
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4b. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "chrisstfo@aol.com" chrisstfo@aol.com chrisstfo
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:10 pm ((PDT))

Is it OK to feed any kind of chicken. I was told you should freeze it first
to kill any bacteria. Is this true? Is OK to feed animals that are given all
these steroids. Thanks, Chris

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Messages in this topic (11)
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4c. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:05 pm ((PDT))

I guess ok is a relative term. Some chicken is injected with
juicifiers (broth, saline, whatever) and some dogs have an adverse
reaction to it. Some people don't like feeding enhanced meats because
of the mystery broth. I wish I had the funds to purchase only free
range humanely raised and killed chicken, beef and pork (do they do
free range pork?), but I don't have that kind of money, so I do my
best. At any rate, the "meat" that is in ki**le is no better than what
you get at the store, and usually much worse.

Oh, and freezing doesn't get rid of bacteria, it kills off parasites,
which you shouldn't have to worry about with meats for human
consumption. However, it is recommended to freeze wild game before
feeding, just in case.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, chrisstfo@... wrote:
>
> Is it OK to feed any kind of chicken. I was told you should freeze
> it first to kill any bacteria. Is this true? Is OK to feed animals
> that are given all these steroids.

Messages in this topic (11)
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4d. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "darkstardog" darkstardog@charter.net darkstardog
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:50 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kobeesmom" <Momvella@...> wrote:
>
> Have a quick question . I made up a batch of raw food for Kobi. Needed
> some veggies so I used a package of frozen Broccoli mix. It had some
> pinto beans in the mix. I never heard of uncooked beans being
> dangerous but I read in this months dog Journal mag that they are if
> there uncooked. I made a 2 month supply. Do I have to throw this out?
> Anybody else heard of this? Thanks in advance for the replies.
> Cindy
>

You know, it takes hours to cook raw dried pinto beans and only a few
minutes to cook broccoli. I'm guessing that the pinto beans in that
broccoli mix are already cooked. So you can make the decision to use
it or not, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have to worry specifically
about raw legumes in the food. That's my guess, but the company should
be able to tell you.

Marty

Messages in this topic (11)
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4e. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

I don't give my dog anything but raw meat. I thought this whole group
did that. I thought they are not susposed to get veggies.
Cheryl

Messages in this topic (11)
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4f. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Momvella@aol.com" Momvella@aol.com kobeesmom
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the reply. I do only feed raw. The veggie mix is raw. My shih Tzu is a gluper so I grind his meat with bones than add the veggie mix to it. Been on raw for 8 years now.
?????????????????????????????? Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 1:36 pm
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] legumes Unhealthy?

>I used a package of frozen Broccoli mix

Hi.This list is for raw feeding and I don't think peopleon thislist don't feed home cooked food to dogs and don't feed veggie too.

One thing,I think I have readsomewhere that broccoli surpress thyroid function.

I maybe wrong,but certain veggie aggrevitate dogs knee if dog were having arthritis and certain veggie surpress thyroid function as well.

I don't know about bean but I know that Macadamia nuts are fatal to dog andshould not be fed.

yassy

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4g. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:11 pm ((PDT))

>The veggie mix is raw.

Well, I guess the way I said was misunderstood i guess.

No,here on this list,people feed raw meat,raw organ and raw bone and no veggies (cooked or raw).

Veggies are carb and,dog does not need carb but protin and fat most.

You could give veggies if small amount as treats,but not in part of diet menu here.

In your feeding carb is dominating over protins??

yassy

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Messages in this topic (11)
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4h. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:22 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Momvella@... wrote:
> Thanks for the reply. I do only feed raw. The veggie mix is raw. My
shih Tzu is a gluper so I grind his meat with bones than add the
veggie mix to it. Been on raw for 8 years now.
> ?????????????????????????????? Cindy

Hi Cindy,

Raw or not, dogs don't need veggies. And if your dog is a gulper you
need to feed him bigger pieces, not grind his food into a mush. Aim
for feeding pieces that are bigger than his head, he can't swallow
that. :)

Olga

Messages in this topic (11)
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5a. Re: Are goldfish ok to eat?
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:06 pm ((PDT))

On Aug 28, 2007, at 10:45 AM, Mary Whetsel wrote:

> They are Comet Goldfish anywhere between 3 and 7 inches long.
> They've been in my pond, no chemical treatment... What do you think?
> Would you feed the excess goldfish to your pets?
>

Yep. They are carp, and as clean and nutritious as the water in which
they live. I'd worry a bit about teaching your cats that goldfish are
fair game:)

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: Are goldfish ok to eat?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:50 pm ((PDT))

>> Would you feed the excess goldfish to your pets?

Oh,poor Gold fish.. I used to have Gold fish when I was kids and raised to more or less about 1 foot..

When raw feeding,Gold fish can become one of protin sources too?

At summer time,Japan has Kingyo(Gold Fish) sukui (scooping) and you try get as much gold fish as possible with papered tool to scoop and it was fun but I never thought it is one food source..

And I for the first time learnt that it is carp family.

Carp in Japan is highly delicacy food like Cavier here in US. So,I knew Carp couldeat but Gold fish... never thought about it..

Palette at least would not have chance to get it though:-P

yassy

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6. Suggestions for feeding a 1.5lb pup?
Posted by: "Monica" mommyof2gals@comcast.net mommyof2gals
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:10 pm ((PDT))

I am picking up a 9 week pomeranian pup on Thursday evening who only
weighs about 1.5lbs right now (she will eventually weigh about 5lbs). I
am really not sure how to feed her as she is SO tiny. Its my
understanding that breed is prone to hypoglycemia, so they need to eat
frequently especially as puppies.

I am open to all suggestions!
Thanks
Monica

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7a. Re: Frothy vomit
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:11 pm ((PDT))

"She ate a bone-in turkey breast (faster than she normally would) and with a
few coughing hacks, she seems to be fully recovered. "

Good to hear. Usually they are fine in 24 hours. Just depends on what it
was.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (9)
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8. 4 Week Old Kitten
Posted by: "Jen - E'Clat Standard Poodles" jswog@yahoo.com JSWOG
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:03 pm ((PDT))

Hi! I've just taken in an approximately 4 week old
kitten found in my church parking lot. The last time I
handfed kittens was before I was raw feeding and now I
feel that I don't know what to do for this little
girl. She's currently on pre-packaged milk replacers
(would use goat's milk if I could find someone milking
goats...) and shows no interest in eating anything
else whatsoever. She's currently topping the scales at
.85#, so she's a teeny thing. Any help and/or advice
would be greatly appreciated.

TYIA,
Jen

PS - She will be non-vacc'd, but I did go ahead and
worm her since she came from the streets and has been
having horrid diarrhea.

Jennifer Lorenzen
E'Clat Standard Poodles, home of:
BIS/RBIS U-CH U-CD Jazz It Up II CGC CD "Harley"
E'Clat's Lady Luck "Elle"
E'Clat's Man of My Dreams "Parker"
E'Clat's Cover Girl "Emma"
http://www.geocities.com/eclatsps/EClat_Standard_Poodles

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9a. Concerned about lethargic pooch
Posted by: "Pam Vojtas" pam.vojtas@datacore.com pvojtas
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:49 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I posted 5 weeks ago and have been feeding my two pooches raw ever
since. We're getting the hang of it!

But I am getting very concerned about my two year old terrier, who
recently seems very tired and uninterested (someone described it quite
appropriately as 'sad'). He has no energy and 'trots' at our agility
classes, where just weeks ago he was a little speed demon. I have seen
several other posts with the same lament, and this reply:

As for acting lethargic, raw fed dogs don't have the same carb fed
frenzied energy that ki**le fed dogs do. Many owners think their dog is
sad at first when in fact, they are just calm for the first time.

Any comments on whether or not this new behavior is truly raw-related
and whether there is any remedy? I miss my happy energetic little guy!

Pam (and Charlie and Quincy)

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9b. Re: Concerned about lethargic pooch
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:13 pm ((PDT))

Don't get me wrong, my pooches have lots of puppy energy, but it
isn't frenzied energy all the time. They've been raw fed for as long
as they've been with me, so I can only compare them with other
people's dogs. However, my mom and sister are on again/off again raw
feeders (because they are extremely lazy to be honest), so I get to
see how the dogs act differently when on ki**le and raw.

Sis's chi is generally a maniac, and though that doesn't change when
he's eating a species appropriate diet, he is much calmer about it.
If he wants to go for a walk or go outside he gets her attention and
waits by the door instead or racing back and forth between her and
the door. He doesn't jump up on me to get attention, just stands by
me. And he doesn't pick fights with my dogs (imagine a chi picking a
fight with a newf). Of course this is the way I see it, I could
easily say that he doesn't look forward to his walks as much, doesn't
dance for me, and isn't interested in playing with his cousins. In
reality, he's just a calmer, happier dog.

I look at it as the difference between a dog that gets proper
exercise and one that is cooped up inside all day. Imagine if you
didn't do activities like agility with your terrier and never took
him on walks. He'd probably become a nightmare from all the extra
energy. Combining well exercised dogs with a species appropriate
diet will result in much calmer dogs than your average dog.

Today seems like my rambling day, because all of that wasn't what I
set out to say in the first place.

Pam, if you are exercising your dogs regularly in addition to doing
agility fun with them, they just might be telling you they need more
energy. You can try feeding them some fattier food like pork or
tongue so he'll have more energy. Newbie dogs might have less "all
the time" energy, but when it is needed for play or activities they
usually have more stamina than your average pup. Let us know if the
fattier foods make any difference.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Pam Vojtas" <pam.vojtas@...>
wrote:

> Any comments on whether or not this new behavior is truly raw-
> related and whether there is any remedy? I miss my happy energetic
> little guy!

Messages in this topic (10)
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10. Re: chicken egg
Posted by: "Penelope Quillen" copperquillpen@hotmail.com copperquillpen1958
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:50 pm ((PDT))

My question about raw eggs is, can they be fed to cats? & how? Penelope

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11a. Re: Do you all rotate Fish oil Brand??
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

>I hear tell that Wallmart has a soy free fish oil, but I haven't gotten over there to check it >out for myself. Anyone have ideas?

Hi,Andrea. I hear some people buy Fish oil from Wallmart too.I too never had chance to go there and see whatit is like.

Me, on the other hand,started from quite nervous about everything from feeding method to which one is good to feed to what to supplement with..you name it,so,I got it from B-natural in MN.

http://www.b-naturals.com/product_info.php?products_id=141

I don't think it had soy in it.My dog does not show itchness.

I was thinking to try their Salmon oil as well after finishing this up.

And also,I was interested in trying Monica Segal Salmon oil because the web looked like real pure oil.

Those I talking here are all capsules,not liquid.

>Back to the original question (sorry about the digression, Yassy),

that is ok,everyone can ask their own questions too.

I was thinking that I may alternate Fish oil and Salmon oil Capsules.

Andrea,check the web.I double check the fish oil I have and see if it lists soy in it. If not,you can try it to yourdog too.

yassy

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12.1. constipation
Posted by: "Linda Edgington" lindagail849@yahoo.com lindagail849
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:13 pm ((PDT))

Hi, My dog is having a hard time pooping. He seems to be constipated. What can I give him so that he doesn't go the other way? He is a tiny toy poodle. 5.5pounds. I have been feeding chicken, pork, gizzards, is what he has had so far in a weeks time.

Thnaks,

Linda

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