[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11967

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: Andrea
1b. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
From: carnesbill

2a. Re: slippery elm questions
From: Andrea

3a. Re: Panting and lethargy
From: ptmagi

4a. Re: Lily Update
From: Shannon Hully

5. Second day of raw feeding...
From: steph.sorensen

6. Weaning pups from Mom to raw
From: Perri Eskew

7a. Re: Shannon
From: Shannon Hully

8a. Freezer burned meat
From: steph.sorensen
8b. Re: Freezer burned meat
From: carnesbill
8c. Re: Freezer burned meat
From: john payne

9.1. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker
9.2. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
From: cypressbunny
9.3. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
From: Tina Berry

10a. chicken egg question need input.
From: MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com
10b. Re: chicken egg question need input.
From: carnesbill

11. dehydrated food
From: tamarabajema

12a. I think he's constipated...suggestions?
From: kfong22
12b. Re: I think he's constipated...suggestions?
From: carnesbill
12c. Re: I think he's constipated...suggestions?
From: Yasuko herron

13a. Re: chicken eggs
From: cypressbunny
13b. Re: chicken eggs
From: MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com
13c. Re: chicken eggs
From: Melissa

14a. Leather poop
From: Cdandp2@aol.com

15a. Re: So much for the "prey model"
From: Melissa

Messages
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1a. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:36 am ((PDT))

Chicken necks and hearts are pretty small and don't require much in
the way of chewing. Does Joe finish his dinner really quickly? One
of my dogs throws up his food if he eats too quickly. If this is a
food digesting issue, your best bet is to give him larger meals that
he will have to work on eating so his tummy has time to get ready for
the food. It was the mixture of veggies et all that he ate before he
vomited the first time, right?

As for acting lethargic, raw fed dogs don't have the same carb fed
frenzied energy that ki**le fed dogs do. Many owners think their dog
is sad at first when in fact, they are just calm for the first time.
However, since Joe isn't holding food down and isn't drinking either,
I wouldn't say for sure that his lack of energy is normal.

How are Joe's poops? He might just have an upset stomach and he
doesn't feel like eating until he's better. You could fast him for
today and offer some water and the broth you made to give him fluids.

Don't let fear of the vet keep you from taking him in against your
better judgement. There's no need to go into the raw debate with
him, you can always just say you think Joe got into something that
didn't agree with him and you want to make sure he's ok. If he asks
what he ate, say you aren't sure. Easy peasy. And don't let hubby
make you feel guilty, you're stepping out of your comfort zone to do
the best for your dog, not just because you think it would be cool
for your dog to eat meat.

Once Joe is feeling better, try again with just chicken quarters for
a week or so. Hearts and other chicken innards can wait for the time
being. Good luck and keep us updated.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Christina Veit" <friztin@...>
wrote:

> I would say he was eating about 70% meat & bones and 30% veggies
> with each serving. That was about 4 days ago... until yesterday
> night, when he vomited his dinner, like 2 hours after eating it. I
> didn't get to see it, but my husband told me it was totally
> unprocessed.
<snip>
> he ate about 5 chicken hearts. About 2 hours later he throw
> them up, again non-digested.
>
> He has been sleeping all day (went potty twice, all normal) and he
> doesn't want to eat, play or anything... just sleep.

Messages in this topic (25)
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1b. Re: my beagle is vomiting and not eating - lethargic
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:59 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Christina Veit" <friztin@...>
wrote:
>
> My husband went to the
> supermarket and he didn't find any necks, so he bought
> chicken stomachs and
> yogurt.

I think you need to let his tummy rest a day by fasting him then
feed him some real chicken parts. For now, don't worry about organs
as they are relatively "rich" and tend to cause digestive problems.
Feed meat and bones only. I don't like necks as they are very small
and can easily be swallowed whole. I suggest you feed him backs or
leg quarters or even buy whole or half chickens and cut them
suitable pieces. Suitable pieces would be as large or larger than
his head. Don't grind or crush. Let him eat the meat and bones.

> I will not be able to take him to the vet's
> office until afternoon (or maybe more) and... the vet is going
> to kill me if
> I tell him I gave him raw food :(

No need to go to the vet at this stage. No need to worry about what
he is going to say. He works for you. He doesn't own you or your
dog and he can't dictate what you feed him. Don't be afraid of your
vet.

> Any idea of what may be happening to him? What should I do...
> just let him
> fasten until he's ready to eat again?

I think you started with too rich foods. I wouldn't feed organs for
a couple of months until his body is completely comfortable with a
variety of meat and bones. I would fast him today and feed him good
chicken parts tomorrow morning.

> Should I be worried?

Not at this point. I think it will all be ok in a day or two.

> Oh.. forgot to mention he hasn't drinking any water neither...

Make sure he has water availiable. He will probably drink some
today.

You need to do a little more research on raw feeding. Get the
book "Work Wonders" by Tom Lonsdale. You may download the book for
$9.95 from http://www.ebookmall.com/ebooks-authors/tom-lonsdale-
ebooks.htm or order hard copy either at http://www.dogwise.com or at

http://www.amazon.com (cheaper).

A few informative web sites are:
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm (My web page)
http://rawfeddogs.net/

--- be sure and check the recipes page.
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (25)
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2a. Re: slippery elm questions
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:36 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Katie" <kcrockett@...> wrote:

> A few minutes before he has this expulsion of liquid, he
> refuses food (i'm a dog trainer, and i use him as a demo dog, so he
> gets little treats throughout the day) and acts frantic. Then he
> has a liquid explosion and is fine.

That sounds like Geiger when he eats a lot of an especially "rich" meal
such as heart or tongue. If there's no problem other than the squishy
dark liquid poo, I'd just chalk it up to too much <enter food choice
here> and make a note to feed a little less of it next time around.
Big globs of organs can also result in the dark liquidy stool, too. If
you use dehydrated liver as training bits maybe he has too many in one
day? I'll admit, I might be reaching there.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: Panting and lethargy
Posted by: "ptmagi" ptmagi@gmail.com ptmagi
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:37 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Ivette Casiano <ivettecasiano@...>
wrote:
Deb, It sounds to me like you're feeding too much. I gave 2/3 of
what you're feeding per day to my 90 lbs. Lab and he was fine. As
soon as I gave 50% more in one feeding he became lethargic and
sluggish also.
> I agree with Lauri, no more food for today. Hope you decided the
right thing by now.
> Ivette

Well I did withhold his dinner, Ivette. But I am really a little
freaked about doing that. Everything I've read says "puppies MUST be
fed at LEAST three times a day" and that their daily intake should be
2-3% of their ideal adult weight. When you read that over and over
and over and then people are suddenly telling you to feed less....
It's hard to do!

I did withhold his dinner last night, and tried to be creative today
in filling him up without taxing him. Gave him a 1# piece of bone-in
pork shoulder that he worked on for almost an hour before trying to
"bury" it. Scooped it up and put it in the frig. At lunchtime he was
still/again acting pretty lethargic, so I gave him a couple of raw
eggs. He had NO idea what to do with them. I finally punctured them
so he could see it was a familiar food and he scarfed them down. Then
gave him the remaining bit of pork shoulder (mostly bone by this time)
from his breakfast.

He worked on that for awhile but I finally took it away because the
size and angle of the bone worried me (choke hazardly). At this point
he had taken just under a pound of food and he seemed a bit less
lethargic, so when dinnertime rolled around five hours later I gave
him a 12 ounce chicken leg quarter. I left home for an hour or so and
when I returned he not only didn't come to greet me (as he ALWAYS did
prior to three days ago) he reminded me of our last dog, Zelda, after
she had had a stroke and could barely move. He got up, but the
movement was slow and lethargic.

Deb in CO

Messages in this topic (7)
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4a. Re: Lily Update
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:37 am ((PDT))

Carrie,

She craves the cat's "food" because it smells very strongly, unlike
raw. I think it's safe to say that as long as you have ki**le in the
house she'll want it. The only thing it provides that you're not is
chemicals, grains and sugars. Just because it's addictive doesn't make
it good for you. ;-)

Shannon H.

>Why does she crave the cat's food? What am I missing in her diet?

Messages in this topic (5)
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5. Second day of raw feeding...
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:38 am ((PDT))

...and all is well! I haven't started the cat yet (waiting until I
can go fishing and stock up on some free fish!), but the doggies are
LOVING it!!

Lucy, my black lab, is a picky eater, so I was worried about how she
would deal with being handed a chicken carcass. She eats it like a
champ! She was finished 20 minutes before my pit bull, who took
hers over by a huge tree that she likes to lay next to and just
nibbled for about 45 minutes. They just keep looking at me with
surprise, like they can't believe Mom is so off her rocker that she
has started handing them such good things to eat!

I gave each of them a wing and a thigh the first day, and then the
body carcass (including all the breast meat) this morning. Tomorrow
evening, they each get another wing and thigh, along with the organs
that were packaged along with the bird. I figured that each dog can
get through a 4 lb bird in 3 days (they weigh 55lbs and 65lbs).

So far, this is fun and easy! The poop is hard with a coating of
mucous, which I expected. There was also much less of it, which was
also expected. I imagine it will regulate itself over time. I also
cut an organic boneless skinless breast I had left over last night
(I had used the rest for my meal) and gave them each half in order
to up their meat content.

Just wanted to update everyone on our progress. We're doin' great,
and they're hoping I don't stop handing them chickens! I can't wait
until their first taste of lamb, venison and pork!

-Steph
Lucy "I love chicken!"
and Scarlet "Not gonna eat it fast, but NO you can't have it back!"

Messages in this topic (1)
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6. Weaning pups from Mom to raw
Posted by: "Perri Eskew" pdsq@sbcglobal.net sqbullys3
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:39 am ((PDT))

Hi everyone, I am needing help with weaning puppies from Mom's milk to
a raw diet. I am new to feeding a raw diet and never had puppies
raised on a raw diet and very excited to have a litter raised on raw.
Could someone please help me with this.
Thanks in advance for any help you guys can offer.
Perri

Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Re: Shannon
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:49 am ((PDT))

Penny,

Are you asking how I switched them or how they eat it? They eat the
entire animals (though at first they'd leave tails and feet and such,
hehe).

As to how I switched them, I started them on ground meat, then slowly
chunked it more and more but I was getting frustrated/worried because
one of my cats refused to eat any bones. Finally I went to the
petstore and bought a couple frozen feeder mice to try. ...they
loved them! So I bit the bullet and just started buying them little
bodies from an on-line place (rodentpro.com) and hoped like heck
they'd like the other things I bought since, to make it worth the
money, I bought a full box of things, hehe. Luckily they've taken to
them all. :-)

One of my cats (the one who wouldn't eat the bones) is 7 and the
other just turned one. We began switching them this past February.

Shannon

>
> Shannon,
> I was just wondering about how they handled that stuff. Since this
is the
> first time I've gotten into this. Growing up we always fed our dogs
& cats
> the bag stuff, & maybe some ppl scraps.

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Freezer burned meat
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:36 am ((PDT))

I just talked to a co-worker (one of the hunters I mentioned
previously) that said he has some venison in his freezer from two
years ago that I could have. No bones, just meat. I asked if it was
bad, he said he doubted it, that it was frozen fresh, but it may have
some freezer burn.

Would my dogs be okay eating freezer burned venison? Or if just a
portion were freezer burned and that wasn't safe for them, would it be
okay if I just trimmed the burned parts off?

-Steph

Scarlet and Lucy "can't wait to try venison!!"

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. Re: Freezer burned meat
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:47 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "steph.sorensen"
<steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
>
> Would my dogs be okay eating freezer burned venison? Or if just a
> portion were freezer burned and that wasn't safe for them, would
> it be okay if I just trimmed the burned parts off?

FEED IT!!! It is great stuff. Don't worry about the freezer burned
part. Feed it too. I get meat like that all the time from friends.
I have some in my freezer now that I've been feeding for several weeks
(not every day).

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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8c. Re: Freezer burned meat
Posted by: "john payne" brendajohn2823@yahoo.com brendajohn2823
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:56 am ((PDT))

I get freezer burnt meat all the time for my dogs, and have done so for close to 2 years. I get it off our local freecycle and craigslist. One guy gave me a huge roast that was 5 years old, and when i sliced it ( i was going to dehydrate it for treats) there was about 1/4" freezer burnt and then inside was pink as ever!!! It doesnt hurt the dogs @ all, grab what you can get!!
Brenda

"steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@yahoo.com> wrote:
I just talked to a co-worker (one of the hunters I mentioned
previously) that said he has some venison in his freezer from two
years ago that I could have. No bones, just meat. I asked if it was
bad, he said he doubted it, that it was frozen fresh, but it may have
some freezer burn.

Would my dogs be okay eating freezer burned venison? Or if just a
portion were freezer burned and that wasn't safe for them, would it be
okay if I just trimmed the burned parts off?

-Steph

Scarlet and Lucy "can't wait to try venison!!"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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9.1. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:37 am ((PDT))

All this chemistry is interesting, but I don't feed raw with kibble for
one reason and one reason only: CANNON BUTT!
Why put the animal we are intrusted to love and take care of of through
that?
Penny & The Menagerie

Messages in this topic (34)
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9.2. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:47 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>

> I too have never read
> anywhere by any author or seen any study by anyone that even
hinted
> that dogs might have amalyse in their salava under any conditions.

*** They do have it in their saliva in very small quantities. The
question is whether that quantity increases when carbs are fed. Some
studies say yes, others say no. Either way, it seems sure that they
do not produce enough to qualify for omnivore status.

> I have read that they CAN have it in their stomach under certain
> conditions but never salava. I'm not sure I even believe those
> sources. :) :) :)

*** There is no question that the dog stomach produces amylase
and/or amylase precursors. I can point you to that research if you
care that much. Even carnivores need to process a small quantity of
carbs--liver has lots of glycogen, for example.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (34)
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9.3. Re: Why not to feed raw with kibble
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:30 am ((PDT))

Putting the digesting differences aside, why would you want to ruin a
perfect diet of raw with kibble? Defeats the purpose don't you think?
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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10a. chicken egg question need input.
Posted by: "MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com" MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com mustbluvspaniels
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:37 am ((PDT))

One of my dog is allergic to chicken, should I assume he is also allergic to
chicken eggs, or are they different? Lisa

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Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: chicken egg question need input.
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:48 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, MustBLuvSpaniels@... wrote:
>
> One of my dog is allergic to chicken, should I assume he is
> also allergic to
> chicken eggs, or are they different?

If he is truly allergic to chicken, I would guess that he is also
allergic to eggs. However, I sincerely doubt that he is allergic to
raw chicken. Almost no dogs are. Have you confirmed allergy to raw
chicken? (not kibble with chicken in it)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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11. dehydrated food
Posted by: "tamarabajema" tamarabajema@yahoo.ca tamarabajema
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:37 am ((PDT))

I have seen that feeding dehydrated food as a treat is not uncommon, so
I am assuming that it is okay to do. My question is it okay to feed
dehydrated as a meal for a couple of days (eg. while camping) or is the
dehydrating process changing the enzymes in the meat? Can you dehydrate
any meat? Mostly what I have read has been liver. But can you do
anything? Also I have seen different types of dehydrated. There are the
hard and sharp, then there are the soft and thicker. Are the soft and
thicker safe for handling without having to wash after? Also are the
hard and sharp safe for dogs? Seems like they wouldn't get chewed well
enough?? Thanks
Tamara

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12a. I think he's constipated...suggestions?
Posted by: "kfong22" kfong@lehman.com kfong22
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:37 am ((PDT))

Hello

Our 2 Eng mastiff boys have been eating raw their entire lives.
Staples include pork meat, tripe, turkey necks and less often lamb
necks and pork necks.

The younger guy is 2.5. He seems to have a more sensitive stomach,
getting the runs more often than the other guy. A week and a half ago,
he must have ate something bad because he became tired, had massive
diarrhea, and didn't eat. The cleared up however and he was eating
like a pig and hopping around again very soon.

We recently went 3-4 days of the big stuff, the lamb/pork necks. I
then noticed there was vomit with shards in it around the yard. The
last 2 days the vomit has not had shards but more liquidy. He hasn't
been able to pass a stool for 3 days now, only a few ounces of thin
white-ish liquid comes out.

I THINK he is just constipated from the thicker bone meals lately.
We've never had this before. My question is, does this pass naturally
or do at some point we need to see a vet? How long does it usually
take? I can just hear the local vet lecturing me for feeding them this
way. Is there something I can do to help him?

Thanks in advance.

Kelly

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12b. Re: I think he's constipated...suggestions?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:55 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kfong22" <kfong@...> wrote:
>
> He hasn't
> been able to pass a stool for 3 days now, only a few ounces
> of thin
> white-ish liquid comes out.

Give him a good size glob of liver. That should do the trick.
Possibly too well. :) If no change by tomorrow, I would be concerned.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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12c. Re: I think he's constipated...suggestions?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:31 am ((PDT))

>I THINK he is just constipated from the thicker bone meals lately

Hi,Kelly.When you fed Neck meal,did you feed boneless meal too ?

If you were feeding just neck,then,more likely the dog gets constipated.

My suggestions are..

1> Just like Bill suggested,try give liver

2> Give more meat to the dog

3> Go for walk.Walking usually makes bowel moving,and it helps when dog constipated.

If the no poop day lasts still,then,it probably good idea to go see your vet.

yassy

---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

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13a. Re: chicken eggs
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:42 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, MustBLuvSpaniels@... wrote:
>
> If a dog is allergic to chicken, would it be right to assume he is
allergic
> to chicken eggs?

*** How do you know the dog is allergic to chicken? Allergy tests? If
so they are unreliable. Dog reacts after eating chicken? If so, is it
all chicken, or chicken that has been "enhanced"? Could also be that
the dog is reacting to something the chickens are fed.

*** In short, no, just because the dog is allergic to chicken does not
necessarily mean that the dog will react to eggs.

--Carrie

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13b. Re: chicken eggs
Posted by: "MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com" MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com mustbluvspaniels
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:55 am ((PDT))

after eating raw chicken and nothing else for 2 week, 4 days into it his
hair started to fall out. But continued to feed, because of a detox Then he
started to chew himself, it took 3 months for the hair to grow back, and for his
sores to heal. Lisa

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13c. Re: chicken eggs
Posted by: "Melissa" mwood8402@yahoo.com mwood8402
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:31 am ((PDT))

Was he having problems before eating raw? What is he eating now?

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, MustBLuvSpaniels@... wrote:
>
> after eating raw chicken and nothing else for 2 week, 4 days into it
his
> hair started to fall out. But continued to feed, because of a detox
Then he
> started to chew himself, it took 3 months for the hair to grow
back, and for his
> sores to heal. Lisa

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14a. Leather poop
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:55 am ((PDT))

Also looking forward to responses on this one. Spencer has had that
leathery poop thing...on-going for a week or so at a time. I never raised the issue
because he doesn't seem at all bothered by it or uncomfortable, etc. in any
way. But it was something I'd never seen until we started the raw diet. His
poops are really tiny though for a 25-lb dog. People have said not to be
concerned, but you have to wonder, is he REALLY digesting all that food??

Thanks to all for the on-going help and information,
Carol for Spencer

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15a. Re: So much for the "prey model"
Posted by: "Melissa" mwood8402@yahoo.com mwood8402
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:31 am ((PDT))

You could give her whole turkey parts before you try chicken, since
she's used to the taste of turkey. When you try chicken again,
perhaps you could try a rib in breast or a thigh.

-Melissa

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "macattack0201" <bmcneil@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all.....I started my 6yo Boston on raw last week. Well, she loves
> the ground turkey. But I had given her RMB (chicken wings) and she
> won't eat them. I even cut the meat off the bone thinking that she
> loves the ground turkey, surely she'll love the chicken...maybe it's
> just the bone......nope.
> Any suggestions? I really don't want to give her nothing but ground
> turkey.
> Thanks!
> Bridget
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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