[rawfeeding] Re: When you forget to defrost...

I am concerned about feeding frozen chicken; are the frozen bones
brittle like cooked ones, or am I worried about nothing?
Stephanie in L.A.

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[rawfeeding] Re: Why gorge and fast?

Hi Charlene,

I think maybe it takes longer for a really large raw gorge meal to
digest than a smaller raw meal, but I believe raw digests quicker than
kibble or canned.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Randy & Charlene Harrison
<bluemoonwolfster@...> wrote:
>
the days that are not fed they still have raw in them raw takes longer
to digest

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[rawfeeding] Re: nasty emails

Who and where is your vet?
Stephanie in L.A.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, nina kelly <ninatkelly@...> wrote:
>
> I haven't received a negative reaction. My vet told me to feed raw.
After seeing how wonderful my Lab looks, her teeth are super white and
her fur is like silk, my brother is switching to raw. I just don't
understand how people can think raw is bad. Hello all carnivores in
the wild eat raw, nature designed them to be able to digest it.
>
> Nina

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[rawfeeding] Re: cleaver

How long is the blade?
Stephanie in L.A.
ps: I bought a cleaver from Smart & Final for $20. It broke the
first time we used it.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "native7tongue" <native7tongue@...>
wrote:
>
> Yassy,
>
> My Wusthof badass cleaver can cut thru anything. I chop fatty oxtails
> and huge turkey necks (mostly bone) in 1-2 chops each. It easy as
> hell. If you get a good quality cleaver, you shouldn't have to hack
> and hack and hack at it. It should be easy.
>
>
> Brian & Sampson
>
>
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
> <sunshine_annamaria@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,Shannon,thank you for recommendation. you said it goes through
> anything,but you have never had problems with Beef neck bones or beef
> rib bones or lamb neck bones too?
> >
> > My cleaver could not go through Beef bones and,had hard time with
> Turkey so,if that cleaver works quite great,then,I considar buying then.
> >
> > Thank you.
>

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[rawfeeding] Dalmation...feeding/ gorge meal amount

Mini Schnauzer Lexie lady she is not gorged.
She is fed daily she will eat anything she can find or get to
if I would let her. If I watch her closely and my son she does fine!

But she seems to always be ready for anything that she can get to
excluding my sons snacks:-( I tell him all the time get to the table
don't sit that down because she will be on it and poof it is gone.
She will climb or crawl to get to human foods. She acts like she is starved.
I read up on them and it said they will over eat and known for getting fat and getting what they called fat pockets when they get fat. Any suggestions?
Charlene

Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:
Whoever it is that is fat and gets fat just looking at food would be suspect
for hypothyroidism.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Randy & Charlene Harrison" <bluemoonwolfster@yahoo.com>

> Hello Sandee,
> No! "Juliet" is 6 yrs old spayed soon to be 7 yrs and has never been
sick ever and has been feed this way from the age of 5 months. She seems
very Healthy and Happy has Good Shiny coat, bright eyed, very active, very
loving, ready to go all the time stool is solid and looks great not thin and
not fat just right:-) Whe she goes place's with me you think people never
saw one they say she is a beauty.
> And has her own end of the couch lol... We got her at 6 weeks old.
> Do you think she needs a Full Thyroid panel run? And why?:-)
> Charlene
>
> Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:
> Have you had a full thyroid panel run on "Dalmatian"?
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "Randy & Charlene Harrison" <bluemoonwolfster@yahoo.com>
> >Also our dog "Dalmatian"The other dog she is fat and I have to watch her
> closely she can look at food and gets fat it seems!

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[rawfeeding] Re: Why gorge and fast?

> I've read a lot about people who gorge and fast their pets. But I was
> wondering... why do you do it? Is it just for convenience, or are
> there certain benefits for the animal?
>
> Thanks. :)

I'm still a newbie, so I can't speak to any long term effects, but
here's my reasoning, which only factored in after my dogs sorta put
themselves on this feeding style...

1. Dogs digestive system = wolves digestive system, which is designed
to eat huge amounts whenever they can get a big kill, some smaller
meals occasionally when they can grab a rabbit or whatever, and to
fast for long periods of time while hunting for the next meal. So,
it's perfectly natural for their systems to gorge/fast.

2. That being said, I'm not going to fast my dogs for weeks at a time
just because 'they might not catch anything for that long.' But a
couple days, sure. This is because my dogs love to eat a large amount
of food at a time. If I feed them daily, they're always bothering me
in the kitchen unless I make them go lay down. If I let them eat
themselves silly, they don't bother me for a couple days. Topaz can
eat a 5lb chicken in about 15 minutes- one day's worth of food takes
him about 10 seconds, so it also allows me to feed things that I'm not
worried about him gulping. I could take it away after he's eaten some
of it, but then I still wind up giving him a small, gulpy piece all by
its lonesome some days instead of that piece coming on a full tummy
when he's not so eager to bolt it.

3. Convenience is a factor. I dislike raw meat and don't really like
having it sit in my fridge. This way I can thaw out a week's worth of
food for them, let them eat as much of it as they want to in one go,
then put the rest away. They get whatever they didn't eat three or
four days later and snacks of eggs or liversicles or nothing on the
in-between days. I can also give them each a whole kidney this way
without it giving them the runs since it's part of a large whole =
less cutting for me.

Crystal and the Zoo

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[rawfeeding] I'm so excited!!!

i've recently gone to raw for all our danes and with one exception
things have been great. Due to unknown causes Kody died at the end
of may from a bowel obstruction in which the original vet blamed on
raw feeding at first and when the xrays came back their was no bone
(as she thought) causing the obstruction. needless to say our 10
month old boy's death is still a mystery and OSU vet clinic hasn't
sent the necropsy yet.

Anyway, on to why i'm excited!!! Yesterday one of the danes dropped
a piece of turkey chunks in the pool with my friend's 3 week old
puppies (we whelped and are raising the litter for her)...one little
puppy ran over and grabbed the food and tried to eat it...it was
soooo cute...I'm just really excited I can't wait to start raising
completely raw fed danes from birth. These guys will be K**ble fed
because that is what the breeder wants. I on the other hand will
raise all my puppies (when I decide to have a litter again) on raw.
right now we aren't going to have puppies because of kody's death we
want to heal first so we can focus on the other kids who are still
having problems with losing one of their brothers.

Hopefully, when kody's results come back it wont be because of the
raw feeding. I will be devasted if it was because we have seen
several benefits, although I'm not sure I would go back to K**ble at
this point, but it will give me pause. Kody was a wonderful show
prospect that died at 10 months of age.

Lillian

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Re: [rawfeeding] Why gorge and fast?

HI,
Well mine seem to prefer it and by the way they look like they get as much out of it as feeding daily and the days that are not fed they still have raw in them raw takes longer to digest and cuts way down on poop. And I would feed everyday if that's what they wanted I made the choice when I felt they where still hungrey after a meal and I added more and more then I decided I would gave them all they wanted and see how that worked they loved it where all full and happy. I tried to feed next day they don't want it! 3rd day was ready to gorge again. And their life's are a little more than about eating here IMHO:-) We keep enriching their life's daily also. Plateforms to lay on and play on, tires hanging to play with, metal condo dog house's with plateforms also. Large secure acre enclosuers. Pools to play in. Fresh live fish in their large tubs to catch and eat also they love it:-) Whole eggs around enclosure to find and eat. Meaty bones inbetween feedings.
Pool time in summer we all have a blast with balls and toys.
Howls, Charlene
blueberry5297 <blueberry5297@yahoo.com> wrote:
I've read a lot about people who gorge and fast their pets. But I was
wondering... why do you do it? Is it just for convenience, or are
there certain benefits for the animal?

.

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[rawfeeding] ADMIN/Re: Food Aggression [was: where do you feed your dogs...]

Hello?
This topic was admined over to RawChat last week, is it back again?
Please, this is a training issue or maybe even related to disease but
it is not about diet. Please take it back to RawChat where it belongs.
Thank you.
Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Re: Turkey neck bone percentage?

"Sonja" <ladyver@...> wrote:
>
> How many days does it usually take for a turkey, and for what size
turkey?
*****
I think it takes a year for a turkey to fully defrost in the fridge.
You certainly have to start the Thanksgiving turkey on Labor Day; the
Christmas turkey no later than Thanksgiving Day.

I defrost turkeys in a Rubbermail basin on top of my little chest
freezer. I usually buy birds that are 12lb to 14lb and it takes two
days to thaw them out.

You can also buy legs and thighs and wings separately, as you would
buy necks. I'm not keen on wings--they are no more meaty than
chicken wings are--but legs and thighs are good choices.

Also, it's generally possible to have the meat guys slice frozen
turkeys, often they'll even quarter the birds. After the parts have
been wrapped separately, you can feed the bird quarter by quarter.
Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Pig's Feet

This is an old subject but I am a new raw feeding gal. Now I know the
true meaning of "City Girl". I always thought I'd like farm life.
After opening my first "CASE" of pig's feet, I can see why some people
opt for vegetarianism! I had absolutely NO idea!!! GAROSSSSSSSSSSS!!!

My dogs marveled at me as I took one bloodied foot after another and
packed them neatly into large zip locks for deep freezing.

Much as I wanted to give them a yummy right then and there, I was
worried about freezing these delicacies first so that any disease
might be killed. Is this status quo?

Next I am wondering, isn't this a pretty hefty "snack"? I mean those
things have flesh and blood on them still! And they were hairy! Some
looked pink, while others were more brown. Are these large pigs and
baby pigs? Or girls and boys? I mean I know absolutely nothing about
this.

When I saw I had an entire case I said, "How did I do that? That's a
LOT of pit's feet!"

Finally I am wondering how dependent are dogs on red meat for
sustenance? I have some red but not much.

Thanks,
Darlyne

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[rawfeeding] Re: Why gorge and fast?

I think there are some really good posts in the archives about this.
You can probably just search by the word "gorge" and get lots.
Basically, it's how wolves eat in the wild--making a kill, gorging, and
then hunting again when they're hungry (if food is avail.). They may
get some snacks in between. For us, it allows us to feed bigger, more
complicated body parts that provide a lot of mental and physical
stimulation, as well as great dental hygiene. If you've never fed your
dog something really big (for his size), it's amazing. For his first
gorge meal, I fed my 20 lb. Boston a 5 lb. goat leg and let him eat his
fill (I think it was about 2 lbs.). To see him really sink his teeth
in and rip and tear for an hour really helped me see what he's designed
for! And the dog gets to feel satiated, rather than maybe always a
little bit hungry. I think Carrie and some others also recently talked
about how their stomachs are designed to stretch a lot, then shrink up,
and repeat.

It doesn't work for all people or dogs (if your dog has a particular
health issue, you might run it by the long-timers here), but it is
something fun to play around with. It is also good to work up somewhat
gradually, since feeding more than normal can lead to loose stools (and
having to let your dog out many times in the night!).

My understanding is that people on this list do everything from feeding
twice a day to maybe twice a week?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "blueberry5297" <blueberry5297@...>
wrote:
>
> I've read a lot about people who gorge and fast their pets. But I was
> wondering... why do you do it? Is it just for convenience, or are
> there certain benefits for the animal?
>
> Thanks. :)
>
> - Jeni & Blue -
>

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[rawfeeding] Re: "more appropriate than chicken" (was: grass eating)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, jrtsnabc <jrtsnabc@...> wrote:
>> What do you mean "turkey is arguably more appropriate than
chicken"?
*****
In general, fowl doesn't count for a lot of meals, for a wolf. Birds
would almost always be windfall food, like nestlings or wounded or
just dumb ducks or partridges or chukkar or whatevers.

Domestic turkey was wild turkey before we humans got to domesticating
it. There are still wild turkeys today. No, they do not look like
our gigundo white factory turkeys.

Domestic chicken did not come from wild chicken. There is no such
thing, as least as relates genetically to chicken. The ancestor of
domestic chicken is the red jungle fowl, and the likelihood of a gray
wolf getting its fangs on a red jungle fowl is pretty slim.

I don't feed a lot of turkey because I feed more chicken. Should I
be feeding more turkey than I do chicken (which is about twice a
week), if possible?
*****
DO *I* think so? Yes. Does that mean much in the scheme of things?
Nope. Do *I* feed more turkey than chicken? Not usually, though I
certainly do seasonally. OTOH, I don't feed much chicken.

Probably more relevant than how often to feed turkey is knowing that
it is not the same protein as chicken (unlike cornish game hens which
ARE the same protein as chicken). Which may give those with limited
critter options one more critter option.
Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Re: Toothless old dog - hammering bones

Claudia NUnes <claudiacpn_groups@...> wrote:
> Need some help on how to feed my 14+ year old whos is almost
toothless. when I started her on raw she still had some teeth and
could chew up bones and tear meat, however she has lost some teeth (
2 at least ) and she now is having some difficulties eating . I am
cutting up the meat . yesterday i gave them quails and i got a meat
hammer and banged the quail , after i noticed she was having
difficulties . Is it ok ? or can this lead to some pointy bones ?
can i do this with chicken also ? Or should i ask the butcher
for "bone meal " ?
*****
She never needed much bone, she needs less now. If you want to get
some ground meat and bone, sure, why not? Just be sure the fat
content is not too much for her. I think you should be feeding her
what she likes, what she can get down, keep down and digest easily.
If that includes ground bone, okay. You bet cut up her meat. If she
does well on scrambled eggs or cottage cheese, feed those as well.

Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Re:whew: we hit 9000 members

Excellent!!!! Our dogs and cats thank us for it!!!
Jackie

---------------------------------
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.

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[rawfeeding] Concerned about food getting all over fur on face and ears

I have been reading through the posts and like to thank everyone for
sharing there experiences. I makes this transition much easier. There
is only one issue I am concerned with and please forgive me if I am
being over cautious, I am farely new at this. My dogs have long ears
and lots of fur on their beard and fice. They get the raw meat all
over their ears,face and beard. I have kids and i am concerned that
bacteria can linger on their fur after meals. Am I the only one
concerned or is there something I can do to minimize the chance of
contamination? I don't want to have to bathe them after each meal. I do
wipe their faces with a cloth which they hate? What do others do after
mealtime?
Gloria

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: When you forget to defrost...

"Just wondering what you guys feed when you forget to defrost a meal?"

Feed it frozen; takes them longer to eat and gives them a great jaw workout
;-)
--
Tina Berry
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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[rawfeeding] Turkey neck bone percentage?

Hello all,

I understand the 80/10/10 percentages, but how do you figure out how much bone is too much? I've been giving my 55 lb lab 1 pound of ground turkey a day (storage issues keep me from buying whole turkeys) and I give her a turkey neck on most days. Is this too much bone in her diet?

I haven't given it too much thought until now because she's not having digestive issues. She's not throwing up over missed meals anymore, and has had consistent stools for a good chunk of time now.

Does anyone know the rough percentage of meat vs bone on a turkey neck?

We're starting her on turkey organs this weekend, and I want to make sure I get all ratios in the ballpark range without obcessing about the numbers. I'm the type who will write out a page-long equation and figure out exactly how many ounces of what I need to feed to get to the 80/10/10. I've been telling myself every day that normal people don't do that, so that's why I'm here....is a turkey neck a day too much bone for a 55 lbs dog? Or is it appropriate since I'm feeding a pound of 100% meat every day?

This group is great, thank you so much for your help and support!

Sonja
and Kodie, the 2yr old bionic Labrador

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[rawfeeding] Re: New to RAW

Hi. I have 3 GSDs and prey style has been the best thing for our guys
and gal than anything else out there. It is really so easy. To
start, you feed chicken. For a 65 lb dog you want to feed 2-3% of her
weight or 1.3 - 1.95 lbs per day. So this would mean that every day
for about a week or two, you are going to feed her that much chicken.
Chicken leg quarters, chicken breasts, whole chickens, half chickens,
anything goes. But stick to chicken as she is adjusting to raw.
After a week or two start adding in some other meats like beef or pork
and start adding in some organs. Prey style tries to achieve an
80/10/10 mix with 80% being meat, 10% being bone and the other 10%
being organs (half of this should be liver). That is it. We stuck
with chicken for about 4 weeks because I was a nervous mom, but now
they handle just about everything. Only thing I supplement is Fish
Oil and they get 3 capsules every other day. No vegetables, no
enzymes, etc. Hope that helps.
Kimberly

I was really surprised at the meat only logic on
> this site. Everyone else has been telling me to make sure the ratio
> of meat to veg is correct, supplements, enzymes - blah, blah, blah.
> It is really confusing! Everyone here seems to be really educated in
> this matter; how much should I be feeding her daily and how varied?
> Could someone provide a sample diet that they would feed a dog like
> mine over the course of a week?
>

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[rawfeeding] French Bulldog puppy

I should also mention,,

Even though he has decreased the amount of water he is drinking,, he
is if anything, peeing more than he did before.

Sorry for the addendum.

Ben.

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[rawfeeding] French Bulldog Puppy, no longer sick.

Thanks for everyones input. I have been feeding him raw for the last 3
days and everything looks great. I am giving him leg/thigh parts 3
times per day and he seems to be enjoying them.

He is still too little to tear them up himself so I am prepping the
meat for him with a cleaver.

His stool consistency has changed drastically over the last few days
from semi runny to hard with visible bone fragment in it, though the
amount of visible bone is decreasing as well.
Also, the volume of stool has decreased drastically, perhaps as much
as 90%, is this reason for concern? The stools are well shaped and
much thicker than previous movements, just very small in comparison to
his kibble fed movements.
In addition his water consumption has decreased massively, I have not
seen him drink any water in the last 2 days, but despite the hard tiny
stool and from what I can tell his cessation of drinking water, he is
if anything more energetic than before.

Any input? Cause for concern? Corrective measures?

Thanks a lot,
Ben.

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[rawfeeding] Re: Advice on loose stools

Thank-you Giselle. I will be getting the Slippery Elm Bark today and
will try what you suggested.

Thank-you you again everyone for the input. GREAT GROUP!

Rob

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[rawfeeding] Re: feed "ol Roy"

8. feeding "ol Roy "
Posted by: "fstwrtr2000" fstwrtr2000@yahoo.com fstwrtr2000
Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:07 am (PST)

I rescue pit bulls and other animals, but mainly pit bulls. You can
imagine the "clientele" I come into contact with. Whenever I try to
approach someone about diet, I appeal to their prudent side. They are
buying "ol Roy" out of convenience and because it's cheap. Try to
start up a conversation and suggest they get some cheap chicken necks
or other cheap parts and supplement. That way, you aren't attacking
their choice of dog food, but helping them feed their dog a great
diet, what he was meant to eat (at least partially). What I stress is
by feeding what they were intended to eat, you cut back on vet bills
etc. Suggest they might not have to spend any money on flea meds,
shots, etc. You might end up making a new friend out of a crotchety
neighbor. If approached gently, how could anyone mind someone trying
to help them, right? Cindy

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Re: [rawfeeding] cancer rates...my experience

On Jun 18, 2007, at 5:59 AM, Shannon Parker wrote:

> ....I started her on raw in October, and miraculously her the scab
> on her tumour healed over. By December the tumour size had started
> to regress and she started breathing better. Now, 8 months later
> the tumour is no longer noticable and she can breathe
> normally. No more snoring, no more breathing problems at all! I
> know that some may think this is a coincidence, and I have read
> that these tumours can spontaneously regress, but I am convinced it
> is diet related.

Makes sense to me. The skin is the body's largest organ of
elimination, and the first avenue the body will use for that purpose
whenever it can. This is why using conventional meds for skin issues
is so dangerous; the body is frustrated in its attempts to heal, and
the trouble is internalized, to crop up in more serious ways.

When the whole metabolism is under siege from poor food, often
combined with other insults, it works to get rid of the bad energy
and products any way it can. Skin and mucous membrane tumors are a
very common result. So, in this case, cleaning up her dietary act
relieved her of enough burden that she no longer needed the
expression in the tumor.

Bottom line, there is no health condition that is not benefited by
providing the best and most natural diet one can, for man or beast.
You may have to go on from there with assistive treatment if there is
just not enough strength left to fight the residual dysfunction, but
the food is absolutely vital. I surely wish everyone would get this;
the world would be a different place.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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[rawfeeding] Re: New to RAW

"kimsoutoftown" <kim-rollins@...> wrote:

> Going RAW and going crazy.
*****
The word "raw" does not have to be capitalized, although it often is--
out of disgust or enthusiasm, depending on who's doing the
commenting. At any rate, in normal conversation the word "raw" is
simply raw, lower case, no shouting needed. Definitely crazy is not
required.

. . I have a year old, female 65 lb. White
> German Shepherd. I was really surprised at the meat only logic on
> this site.
*****
If you are reading the list messages and getting "meat only", I'd say
you aren't paying close enough attention.

We do not recommend meat only. We recommend meat, meaty bones, and
organs We recommend what Ma Nature sets out at the buffet table.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Everyone else has been telling me to make sure the ratio
> of meat to veg is correct, supplements, enzymes - blah, blah, blah.
> It is really confusing!
*****
It's confusing because all that is just shuck and jive. It's busy
work recommended by people who
A. do not understand they are feeding wolves, or
B. haven't taken the time to figure out what really wolves eat, or
C. understand completely but believe Ma Nature is wrong (this is
hubris and if you read Greek mythology, you'll see that hubris NEVER
goes unpunished), or
D. understand completely and concede that Ma Nature is right BUT feel
compelled to add their own special footnote to natural history, for
whatever reason but probably ego gratification.

The closer you feed to whole prey, the less you have to worry about
the details. Those pundits whose menus are far, far away from whole
prey must reply on measuring and supplementing to approximate the
contents of whole prey.

Everyone here seems to be really educated in
> this matter;
*****
Na Nature is a stern but loving teacher.

how much should I be feeding her daily and how varied?
*****
2%-4% of her ideal adult weight (not necessarily what she IS, but
rather what you see her as being) per day. Technically that would be
one and a half pounds to two and a half pounds. Realistically, you
feed amounts that help her look and act her best, whatever those
amounts are; and you adjust as needed.

You got your protein variety (critters) and body part variety (necks,
shoulders, ribs, legs, backs, wings, brisket, organs, etc.). Unless
you can feed appropriate whole prey, variety in both source and body
part are useful for getting the most nutrition into your dog.

Poultry, livestock, fish: yours to choose from.

> Could someone provide a sample diet that they would feed a dog like
> mine over the course of a week?
*****
You should access the list archives by joining Yahoogroups
<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join> The archives
abound (teem!) with recommedations for newbie dogs. Start there, see
what questions can be answered, ask the ones that are not.

I recommend you buy two whole chickens, maybe five pounds each. Cut
each onto four parts (two leg/thigh quarters, two wing/breast
quarters), which gives you eight meals. Feed one of these quarters a
day, which will get you through seven days with one to grow on. If
the birds come with liver, gizzard, heart and neck stuffed into the
cavity, feed that, too, over the course of the week, bit by bit.

Similarly, you can buy bags of leg/thigh quarters, and you can buy
flats of skin-on, rib-in breast halves.

Actually you can start with any old meat/meaty bones you have lying
around, but chicken seems to be the least intimidating to beginners.
Also, available and inexpensive. And the bones are easily eaten.

If/when your dog has loose stools try these fixers:
--reduce meal size
--reduce meal frequency
--strip off the skin and fat

Check out http://rawfed.com, http://rawfeddogs.net
Chris O

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: nasty emails

I haven't received a negative reaction. My vet told me to feed raw. After seeing how wonderful my Lab looks, her teeth are super white and her fur is like silk, my brother is switching to raw. I just don't understand how people can think raw is bad. Hello all carnivores in the wild eat raw, nature designed them to be able to digest it.

Nina

mwood8402 <mwood8402@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yes, I got pretty much a unanimous negative reaction from everyone I
told about it. Vets, nutritionists, etc scared me into doing home
cooked instead... No more. I'm trying it for myself now, and my dog's
reaction will determine who is right. So far, so good. ;-)

-Melissa W

> I have so many people now telling me I am doing the WRONG thing
letting my dogs eat raw meat and especially the raw chicken bones.
Did you get this reaction when you started?
>
> Laura

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[rawfeeding] Re: Feeding bloat dog

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jen" <jboydmorin@...> wrote:
>
> Comparative anatomy of barrel chested breeds to wolves?

*** What barrel chested breeds? Compared to wolves, most dogs are
short-chested and lack wind. Any experienced dog breeder can tell
you how easy it is to make significant changes in skeletal anatomy
in only a few generations. Besides, the Purdue studies showed that
the bloat risk isn't in ALL deep-chested dogs, it is in dogs deeper-
chested than normal for the breed.

> Until there's conclusive research on what does
> or does not affect bloat I will do what I can to lower my dogs'
risk
> of bloating.

*** Without conclusive research on what does and does not affect
bloat, you are not able to do anything to lower the risk of
bloating. A better idea would be to do everything possible to
increase the dogs' health.

> What
> you lose in teeth cleaning, jaw workout, etc. can easily be
addressed
> by offering some really terrific recreational items, like the cow
feet
> we've been discussing. What am I missing?

*** The form of the food is as important as the chemical makeup of
the food. The further you stray from nature's model, the more likely
the dogs are to have problems. It simply does not make sense to
compromise the quality of the diet in hopes that doing so will
lessen the chances of a disease.

--Carrie

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[rawfeeding] Re: nasty emails - zoo food

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "helpshelteranimals"
<helpshelteranimals@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "fstwrtr2000" <fstwrtr2000@>
> wrote:
> .the day i see zoo keepers pouring out kibble to the
> timber wolves and African dogs, is that day i sit down to bowl of
> kibble with my dog
>
> Fastwater

Sadly that comment won't cut it where I live. The Living Desert,
(livingdesert.org)an African Plains themed wildlife park just down
the road from me feeds their Mexican Wolves delicious, nutritious
crap-in-a-bag!!!! I know this to be true as I know the one of the
head zoo-keepers or whatever they call themselves. I asked her a
couple of months ago what they fed and my only response was WTF!!
Her reason was that they didn't want to feed the wolves
anything 'worth causing them to fight over'! The only good that came
out of this conversation was I learned that the wolves are going to
be released into the wild here in the US western states sometime soon.

The hyena was fed kibble mixed with restruant leftovers - grapes and
veggies that particular day, different fruits and veggies other days.

Very disappointing.

Barb

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: When you forget to defrost...

>Just wondering what you guys feed when you forget to defrost a meal?

Hi,like sandee said, I put meat in warm water and defrost,or my mother in law told me to put meat on teflon skillet to thaw meat quickly.I have never tried that one yet but she said it works.

Or,I feed canned Mackerrel/Sardine/Salmon/Crab.

I do not have set up time for feeding too.I eat whenever dinner is ready and,my dog waits till I finish eating and she eats her dinner.

Also,I have weekly planned Excel chart on fridge so that I remember what to put out from freezer in the morning for next day;24 hours defrost in fridge make sure it gets defrosted..
And I used this to make buying list for palette's menu for a week when I go grocery shopping for us.

yassy

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: lamb rib bones

Hi, Lamb meat with bones I see at grocery stores are Lamb Shank,Leg of Lamb,Lamb Chop, butt where do you find lamb rib? Anyone has reasonable priced Lamb rib saler's link ?

yassy

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[rawfeeding] Re: lamb rib bones

, "Sandy Ross" <MacPhail@...> wrote:

> I am new to the list and have been feeding raw frozen patties to my
adult dogs for a year or so.
*****
It is not the goal of this list to support prefab food. The lamb
bones would be fine for your pups.

They would be fine for your adult dogs. They would be finer than
frozen patties.

Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Two videos on Youtube

For those of you who may be interested, I've put a couple of videos on
Youtube of one of my dogs eating his raw food.

Brett eating a pig's foot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r42BknN84gY

Brett eating lamb ribs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRPnwSSd_lk

If these links don't work, put raw fed dogs into the search engine on
Youtube. You should then be able to find these two videos amongst the
list that comes up.

Mal Firth

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[rawfeeding] FYI -- %'ages ina 65 pound lamb

Hi all -- One of the supppliers I use just got lambs from an Amish
farm near her. After butchering the first one she weighed all the
various parts. She did not bone out the meat, but just as an FYI
this is what the lamb ended up being comprised of (I think it is the
one I am getting...) (Nicole gave permission to cross-post -- she is
also on this list...):

The six-way cut "with everything" includes 2 rib racks, 2
hindquarters, 2 shoulder/foreshanks, and the neck. Extra bits include
a goodie-bag of lower legs/feet, tail (these sheep are not docked,
it's a full tail), rather sizable testicles, and pizzle; the whole
head, rinsed and bagged; tripe, emptied and bagged; organs (lungs,
heart, liver, spleen, kidneys) bagged - and I will remove the
gallbladder, nobody wants to eat that and it will spill icky yellow
bile all over; and intestines, emptied (mostly) and bagged. The hide,
if you want it, will be rolled up & bagged. The wool is not too bad
on these lambs, it's about 1" long, and it wouldn't be unreasonable
to think that an experienced prey-eater would consume it, at least
the thin belly-hide, but I haven't tried it on my dog so couldn't say
for sure. The wool will be dirty; easy enough to brush off the worst
of it, but not so easy to wash.

On to the data: I weighed all the parts and turned them into
percentages, .... So here's what a 56.69# lamb contains:

47.5% Raw Meaty Bones
14.1% stomach contents and fluids (approximate)
13.8% head, lower legs, tail, "boy parts"
7.5% intestines (contents emptied, for the most part)
7.3% hide
5.8% organs (lung, heart, spleen, kidneys, liver)
4% tripe (contents emptied)

So, if you eliminate the 41% of the animal that is usually considered
"waste" (head, feet, digestive contents, hide), then your percentages
go
like this:

83% Raw Meaty Bones
10% Organs
7% Tripe

Kathy R.

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[rawfeeding] Re: When you forget to defrost...

My "OH S#*$!!! routine is the same. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
You'd be surprised how quickly you can thaw food in a sinkful of warm
water....and since I don't feed at a set time, they don't mind waiting.
Or, eggs, canned mackerel, human leftovers if there are any...I even
add cottage cheese (horrors!)! :) Or skip a meal, skip a day,
whatever...all works out in the end!
Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
From: "Tegan Whalan" <macdogald@...>
Just wondering what you guys feed when you forget to defrost a meal?

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[rawfeeding] Re: Well that was fun!

added a sprinkle of tamari
and wouldn't you know it ... he wolfed the whole bowl down,

Isn't Tamari a soy sauce? From reading on this list, I understand that
soy can be an allergen. Plus tamari is really salty, so you should skip
that next meal. Hopefully, Maximus now knows that the chicken is food
and won't need any additives, but if he does, people here recommend
garlic powder (not salt) or parmesan cheese. (For my dog Rusty, I use
green tripe to get him to eat liver, etc.)

Good luck!

Metra

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[rawfeeding] New to RAW

*** Mod Note: please sign your posts ***

Going RAW and going crazy. . . I have a year old, female 65 lb. White
German Shepherd. I was really surprised at the meat only logic on
this site. Everyone else has been telling me to make sure the ratio
of meat to veg is correct, supplements, enzymes - blah, blah, blah.
It is really confusing! Everyone here seems to be really educated in
this matter; how much should I be feeding her daily and how varied?
Could someone provide a sample diet that they would feed a dog like
mine over the course of a week?

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[rawfeeding] Re: undigested bone

Thank you Kimberly. I am relieved to know this.

Pauline

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kimberlykay1119"
<kimberlykay119@...> wrote:
>
> Pauline - It is very normal for dogs to throw up little bits of bone.

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Re: [rawfeeding] cancer rates...my experience

Shannon-
Your story made my heart smile:) Thanks for sharing and best wishes for continued good health for your greyhound girl:)
Caren O'Connor
Nansemond Cavaliers

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[rawfeeding] Interesting observations

Well we are half way through our first week of raw feeding and it
always seems surprising! Some observations so far:

* Maverick (cat) is SOOOO very happy each meal time - he positively
sings for his supper! He is loving his chicken.

* Maximus (dog) still isn't sure what to do with his chicken - I'm
still smashing it but if he finds a "chunk" he grabs it and races
outside to bury it! As I'm gone to work during the day , I'm not sure
if he's digging it up to eat yet! It's a bit of a jungle back where
he's burying it.

* both their water consumption has gone WAAAAY down! Maximus used to
do this "camel thing" at night - he'd drink his whole water bowl in
one go. I'm refilling the bowl just once or so a day now!

* they see me pick up their food dishes and the salivating/lip
smacking begins! And I know this might sound strange but they both
seem to be happy!

* I found a very helpful fella in the meat dept at Nugget yesterday -
he helped me find some heart & liver, as well as promise me that he
could get me just about anything else I needed with a little bit of
notice!

Kirsty

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[rawfeeding] Re: nasty emails

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "fstwrtr2000" <fstwrtr2000@...>
wrote:
.the day i see zoo keepers pouring out kibble to the
timber wolves and African dogs, is that day i sit down to bowl of
kibble with my dog

Fastwater
**************

BRAVO!! SOOO well said! I LOVE the logic!!!

AG & Ruffian - Mystery Mutt

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[rawfeeding] lamb rib bones

Hi-
I am new to the list and have been feeding raw frozen patties to my adult dogs for a year or so. They are doing well. A friend gave me some raw lamb rib bones. Can I give these to 9 wk old wheaten terrier puppies? Or would these be a bad choice for their age?

Sandy

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Dogs losing weight

Ginny,

Yes, way too many dogs are fat. I am keen on keeping my own dogs trim so there are no overweight dogs in my own home.

Feeding more, maybe a few times a day will be the answer. These two dogs won't eat if they're not hungry. (My other two on the raw diet are doing great, it's just the Dobe and the Crested.)

Mary

It could be that
your perception of their ideal condition is skewed by the customary
fat dogs. They know more than you about how much to eat, perhaps.

ginny and Tomo

.

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re:Duck eggs/ vomiting

I raise poultry and have ducks as well as chickens. Duck eggshells are very much thicker and harder than chicken eggshells. It takes a good pounding on the counter for me to get through the shell and the inner membrane on a duck egg. So it could be that your dog's stomach couldn't handle the tough shells??? Just a thought.

Marion

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