Feed Pets Raw Food: Nov 21, 2007

Wednesday, November 21, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12302

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Best of Yahoo Groups
From: mrbob02140
1b. Re: How to find and nominate the Best of Yahoo Groups
From: folkdancer1

2a. Re: anyone feeding raccoon? any problems or reasons not to?
From: katkellm

3a. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
From: carnesbill
3b. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
From: Michelle Radcliff
3c. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
From: Anntiga@aol.com
3d. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
From: MORGAN LEWIS

4a. Question About Feeding High Food Drive Puppy
From: momentumm5
4b. Re: Question About Feeding High Food Drive Puppy
From: Tina Berry

5a. possible sources
From: Mary Tinder
5b. Re: possible sources
From: costrowski75
5c. Re: possible sources
From: Kathie Middlemiss

6a. Re: 8 Week Old Puppy
From: tdifr62
6b. Re: 8 Week Old Puppy
From: costrowski75

7. replies to 'Must Read'
From: logbreath2000

8a. Enough Variety?
From: h h
8b. Enough Variety?
From: costrowski75
8c. Enough Variety?
From: mrbob02140

9.1. Introduction
From: Michelle Radcliff

10a. Where can I find green tripe?
From: geraldinebutterfield
10b. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
From: marblekallie

11a. Re: 1st Timer....Refused to eat it!! Confused!
From: Michelle R

12a. Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
From: windmilldairy
12b. Re: Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
From: Sandee Lee
12c. Re: Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
From: windmilldairy

Messages
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1a. Re: Best of Yahoo Groups
Posted by: "mrbob02140" bob_roth@comcast.net mrbob02140
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:22 pm ((PST))

>
> Hi Bob,
> I couldn't agree with you more!! Where does one go to do the
nominating?
> :-) Patty

The best of Y! groups is just to the left of the messages... click on
that and it will show you the current "Best of" then there is an icon
on the right to click on to nominate other groups.

Bob

Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: How to find and nominate the Best of Yahoo Groups
Posted by: "folkdancer1" folkdancer1@yahoo.com folkdancer1
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:02 pm ((PST))

This is how I found it.

Click on Groups. In the center of the page look for and click on Best
of "Y" groups.

Then go to bottom right and click on the "nomination" icon.

Ellen

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mrbob02140" <bob_roth@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi Bob,
> > I couldn't agree with you more!! Where does one go to do the
> nominating?
> > :-) Patty
>
> The best of Y! groups is just to the left of the messages... click on
> that and it will show you the current "Best of" then there is an icon
> on the right to click on to nominate other groups.
>
> Bob
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: anyone feeding raccoon? any problems or reasons not to?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:22 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sktnurse" <sktnurse@...> wrote:
>
> I may have a new source for skinned raccoons and dont know of any
> reasons not to feed it.

Hi Sherry,
Raccoons are classified as carnivores, and i wouldn't feed a carnivore
to a carnivore because wolves, although they will attack and kill
carnivores to defend their territory, do not eat carnivores. My farm
dogs, who catch squirrels, rabbits,....and dine have never ever eaten
a raccoon that they caught. So if i were going to try feeding them, i
would test drive before i bought lots. KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:39 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jaygaughan" <jaygaughan@...>
wrote:
>
> I need some help as to what are appropriate treats for an 8 week
old
> Great Dane puppy already eating all raw? The breeder has him
eating
> ground chicken backs and green tripe. Since this is my first dog
going
> all raw I really don't know what to give him for treats.

It's really not critical what you feed as treats such they take up
such a small portion of the diet. I ususally feed some sort of
commercial treat such as Authority Little Liver treats or Bil-Jac
liver treats. Carrots are ok as are freeze dried or frozen chunks
of meat.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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3b. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
Posted by: "Michelle Radcliff" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:14 pm ((PST))

Jay, you could try gizzards (can be chopped) , or make up little
hamburger meatballs (my kids LOVE hamburger).
Best of luck with your little one,
Michelle

>
> I need some help as to what are appropriate treats for an 8 week old
> Great Dane puppy already eating all raw?

Messages in this topic (7)
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3c. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
Posted by: "Anntiga@aol.com" Anntiga@aol.com anntiga
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:57 pm ((PST))

The treats that my dog loves are hot dogs. I get mine from a good butcher
and I get the ones that have the least amount of anything in them. I cut them
up so each piece is the size of a pea.

You can give twenty pieces and really give very little.

I used to make my own beef jerky out of ground sirloin but my dog always
went after the people with hot dogs and ignored my jerky.

Good luck!

Ann and Norman (Portuguese Water Dog)
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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3d. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
Posted by: "MORGAN LEWIS" shadowland22000@yahoo.com shadowland22000
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:44 pm ((PST))

Every dog is different, mine hate hot dogs, not love Liver or chicken for training. Morgan (highly reccomend plastic bag)

Anntiga@aol.com wrote: The treats that my dog loves are hot dogs. I get mine from a good butcher
and I get the ones that have the least amount of anything in them. I cut them
up so each piece is the size of a pea.

You can give twenty pieces and really give very little.

I used to make my own beef jerky out of ground sirloin but my dog always
went after the people with hot dogs and ignored my jerky.

Good luck!

Ann and Norman (Portuguese Water Dog)
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Morgan and His Angels
Precious, OFA
Princess, CGC, TDI, GSDCA Health Award

---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

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Messages in this topic (7)
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4a. Question About Feeding High Food Drive Puppy
Posted by: "momentumm5" Momentumm5@aol.com momentumm5
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:47 pm ((PST))

I have a new 15 week old Malinois Bitch that has almost over the top
food drive. She came being fed ground raw/bone and grain-free kibble. I
want to switch her to whole prey like my other dogs (Giant Schnauzers).
So far she has tried to gulp everything I have given her and she almost
choaked on a big hunk of beef. If I give her larger pieces/more complex
food to make it more difficult she will eat everything and it is far
more than she should eat. When I try to get to her to take some away
after I think she has had enough, she tries to gulp and swollow the
remaining piece without chewing so that I can't take it away. That's a
disaster waiting to happen. Any suggestions?

Chris.

Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. Re: Question About Feeding High Food Drive Puppy
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:07 pm ((PST))

"If I give her larger pieces/more complex food to make it more difficult she
will eat everything and it is far
more than she should eat. When I try to get to her to take some away after I
think she has had enough, she tries to gulp and swollow the remaining piece
without chewing so that I can't take it away."

How long have you had her? Do think it might settle down after awhile if
this is fairly new for her to be eating whole prey? It's probably because
she is used to ground and she can just gulp that down. I think if it were
me I'd give her large pieces, bigger than her own head and let her eat. At
15 weeks you're still feeding them twice a day and I wonder if you continued
giving her large pieces twice a day for a week or so, if it this would slow
her down after awhile.

Also mine don't really chew up their whole prey food; it's more like pull
off a hunk and swallow or if it is a chicken, it's pull off a piece, give it
a couple crunches then swallow it whole.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. possible sources
Posted by: "Mary Tinder" mtinder@tinderco.com mmmaryt
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:07 pm ((PST))

I just came back from my butcher shop. Evidently, some folks bring the
deer in to be butchered and never come to pick up. She said we can have
those for the butchering fee after 3 wk wait! Also Gave me 20 deer
necks for free! Bless her heart. Be nice to your local butcher.
Mary, Rumble, Boda, Lily

Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: possible sources
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:30 pm ((PST))

"Mary Tinder" <mtinder@...> wrote:
> She said we can have
> those for the butchering fee after 3 wk wait! Also Gave me 20 deer
> necks for free!
*****
O. M. G.
I am faint with envy.
Green.
Weeping.

How absolutely WONDERFUL!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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5c. Re: possible sources
Posted by: "Kathie Middlemiss" geekgirl717@gmail.com katjermid
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:46 pm ((PST))

costrowski75 wrote:
>
> "Mary Tinder" <mtinder@...> wrote:
> > She said we can have
> > those for the butchering fee after 3 wk wait! Also Gave me 20 deer
> > necks for free!
> *****
> O. M. G.
> I am faint with envy.
> Green.
> Weeping.
>
> How absolutely WONDERFUL!
> Chris O
>

No kidding! My dogs LOVE venison and it's so hard to get my hands on
some here in RI.
Yay you! And Hooray for your pups!

Kathie M.

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: 8 Week Old Puppy
Posted by: "tdifr62" tdifraia@comcast.net tdifr62
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:07 pm ((PST))

OK my plan is to start the first few days with bone in chicken
breasts. Watch and see how well he tolerates that. Check his stools.
If all is well after say 2 days, add 1 chicken liver and see how he
adjusts. If he reacts with indifference ie ... loose stools or vomit,
cut back to just chicken. If all goes well Im on bone in chicken and
some organ. The following week try a little beef heart, again see how
he tolerates that. Any signs of intolerance slow down on the beef
heart. Another words Add small amounts of variety as long as he
tolerates it. If not wait and try it again. Slowly allowing his
digestive system to adjust to each type of food. Small amounts and
slowly increasing over time. Hows that sound for a plan?

Tommy D.

> I'm going to jump right in and say just start feeding him raw. I
wean mine to raw and
> there has never been anything they can't eat or won't eat. It's
just dinner to them.
>
> I start with variety and never waiver....but that's just how I do it.
> I don't follow any rules and they grow up great. Whatever the
adults are eating is what
> the pups are eating.
> Try the bone-in chicken breasts and see how that works then progess
as you see fit. Bet
> he'll be eating what the adults are eating pretty quickly.
>
> Merril
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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6b. Re: 8 Week Old Puppy
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:41 pm ((PST))

"tdifr62" <tdifraia@...> wrote:
> 1. Should I start him with just Bone in-Chicken Breast, or can he
> start right out with the recommended 80-10-10 ratio of meat to organ
> to bone?
*****
Since the 80/10/10 is only a guide and refers to the big picture as
opposed to the daily grind (metaphoric, not literal) you can start out
pretty much however you want. Rib-in chicken breast sounds good to
me. Maybe remove the skin. If that appears to be too much meat/not
enough bone for the kid, feed some chicken backs, bashed up a bit if
you need to.

> 2. How soon can I begin to introduce different types of foods ie..
> beef, pork, turkey, fish and lamb?
*****
Well, here's the thing. An eight week old pup should get three if not
four meals a day. Over a week that's 21 to 28 separate meals you'll be
feeding. During this fairly short period of frequent small meals you
can introduce most everything you're likely to be feeding; just do it
in small doses. Since the meals ARE small doses at this stage, you
have a natural canvas to work with. With pups I see little
justification for feeding chicken ala chicken for 21 to 28 meals!

Obviously, if the pup's system says take it easy, you take it easy.
Always always use the dog as your guide.

> 3. Which method is best a slow introduction while cutting back on the
> kibble, or cold turkey switching?
*****
Get rid of the kibble. There is no virtue in prolonging the insult.
There is no benefit in feeding kibble while you are introducing raw
food. Ditch. The. Kibble.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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7. replies to 'Must Read'
Posted by: "logbreath2000" elisabethlasser@sbcglobal.net logbreath2000
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:29 pm ((PST))

Thank You to all who have replied to my post-and given me lots of pointers/
encouragement.
I am still quite insecure about raw feeding, especially since I'm the only one in a
neighbourhood full with dogs on kibble.
It's unnerving when I come across articles such as the one I gave the link to.
I wanted you to read the article and have your helpful comments.
A group like this is most valuable for us beginners - it's good to be able to have advise
from real people with real experience.
Many Thanks
Elisabeth

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Enough Variety?
Posted by: "h h" deedeekinsisme@yahoo.com tarbedyh
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:14 pm ((PST))

OMG! I'm stunned and bummed! I want to do this right, but money is
tight. The chicken ranges from $.79/lb for the hind qtrs to $.99 for
the breasts... The rabbit costs $2.49/lb (but he loves it so much I
don't mind) and the beef over $2/lb. I have also fed turkey necks for
$.99/lb and occasionaly pork with bones for $.99/lb that seem to hard
so I smash them with a meat cleaver. What should I do? I got started
on this using Bill's page that consisted of a mainly chicken back diet
(which he also gets when I can find them - also $.99/lb). I figured
if chicken backs were a good staple, the hind quarters were much
better, with more meat than bone. I have seen pork ribs for $1.99/lb
are those bones suitable? I have stayed away from boneless cuts of
pork but I could probably afford to add some of that, and I will add
turkey.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well, I said ideal--not essential. <g> (and actually "ideal" would be more along the lines of being able to toss a moose or a buffalo out in the back yard and let the dogs eat it). I know very well the money being tight situation...in fact, my poor dogs have been stuck in a chicken rut the last few months thanks to dh having to take a month off work and right after that the cam shaft going out on our car.

I think Bill is about the only regular on this list that thinks that chicken backs make a great staple (and if you search the archives, you'll find a few debates on the merit of backs). While there may not be very many hunters around since you live in a big city, I bet there are a few large ethnic areas where you can find "oddball" meats for cheap. If you learn when your grocery stores mark their meat down, you can get good deals too. Plus, you don't need a huge honkin freezer to be able to buy meat in bulk. There are several people who live in apartments and have a 2.2 cubic feet freezer. It doesn't take up much more room than an end table (17" wide, 24" long, 33 1/2" high), and should hold between 60 to 70 pounds of meat. The cases of beef heart I buy at my local meat shop, and 60 pounds and cost 80 cents per pound....though prices and weight may vary in your area.

I can't vouch for any of the following groups since I live in the Midwest and don't belong to any of them, but here are a couple I found that may be able to point you towards where to find the good deals near you:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rawfed-NE/

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalFeeding-MD_DC_VA_PA/

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawmeatsearch/

And finally, even if you are feeding more chicken than anything else, it's still better than feeding doom nuggets.

HEIDI MARIE
~with the woofs-Cheyenne and Lazy B~
~and the moggies-Minerva, Shasta, and Misty-Jo~

---------------------------------
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
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8b. Enough Variety?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:20 pm ((PST))

"mrbob02140" <bob_roth@...> wrote:
>I want to do this right, but money is
> tight. The chicken ranges from $.79/lb for the hind qtrs to $.99
for
> the breasts... The rabbit costs $2.49/lb (but he loves it so much I
> don't mind) and the beef over $2/lb. I have also fed turkey necks
for
> $.99/lb and occasionaly pork with bones for $.99/lb that seem to
hard
> so I smash them with a meat cleaver.
*****
Skip the rabbit. Rabbit is not the big door prize. Pork neck bones
are not even worth worrying about right now. If things is tight and
until you have read more (oh, there's so much reading you can be
doing!), feed chicken parts with whatever boneless meat (that's NOT
chicken) you can get cheap. I recommend starting a search right this
very now for beef heart and pork shoulder roasts. These two and
chicken (and whatever turkey you can score) ought to be plenty
adequate for the time being.

Follow the sales, learn to read those supermarket flyers. Find a meat
wholesaler from whom you can buy bulk at generally good prices.

I got started
> on this using Bill's page that consisted of a mainly chicken back
diet
> (which he also gets when I can find them - also $.99/lb). I figured
> if chicken backs were a good
*****
IMO chicken is not "a good staple" and although Bill joyously
endorses a chicken back menu not all of us do. Chicken is better
than a poke in the eye with a stick but it too is not the big door
prize. I would recommend chicken over kibble any day you betcha; I
would also recommend broading your horizons with all due haste.

I have stayed away from boneless cuts of
> pork but I could probably afford to add some of that, and I will
add
> turkey.
*****
You should seek out boneless pork; added to a measly chicken back, a
heap a pork meat can be quite a fine meal. Both pork and heart (any
kind: beef, pork, even chicken) are good companions to chicken bones.

> I still am stunned by the idea that chicken only once a week is
ideal.
*****
Heck, IMO ideal is no chicken at all. Since reality is not often
ideal (although a girl can dream), I settle for limiting chicken when
I can but even with my firm conviction that there are more healthy
animals to depend on if my finances dictate chicken, chicken it is.

I am not sure why you had your hopes pinned so thoroughly on
chicken. What did you read that set you up for such disappointment?

> I live in the city and have no access to hunters or anything like
> that. I have no room for a freezer so I can't buy in bulk.
*****
Okay, so forget the meat wholesaler.

What are the
> health consequences of a heavy chicken diet?
*****
I doubt very much chicken ala chicken provides the full gamut of
amino acids, minerals and vitamins; it certainly offers a HUGE
unremitting supply of omega 6 fatty acids which are often implicated
in various inflammations including what vets might lump together
as "allergies." Your dog is a wolf: He needs red meat.

The further one gets from whole prey (now THERE'S the ideal), the
more protein variety and body part variety are needed for the
complete nutrition a dogs needs.

As with waterskiing or walking across a bed of burning embers, as
long as you keep moving, you're good. It's only when you stop that
you get into trouble. IMO it's variety that keeps our dogs at the
top of their form.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (13)
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8c. Enough Variety?
Posted by: "mrbob02140" bob_roth@comcast.net mrbob02140
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:44 pm ((PST))

Once again, thanks for all the support and advice, I will add more beef
to his diet and look into getting a small freezer and check out the
local ethnic stores to see what they have...

Bob

PS. This group is definitely "The Best of Yahoo!"

Messages in this topic (13)
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9.1. Introduction
Posted by: "Michelle Radcliff" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:13 pm ((PST))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!

Hello, I am new here. A friend of mine has introduced me to the
benefits of feeding raw. I have Chinese Cresteds, and have many
things to learn about the particular of feeding this new stuff, but
all my kids seem to think Ive gone nuts and cant believe they get to
eat this stuff every day. :-) The favorite so far Ive found is
hamburger, to which I add yogurt for calcium. They also get alot of
venison (Ive got access to pretty much all my kids can eat), which
they prefer cut into nice bite sized peices... haha Im new to
feeding raw, so we havent had alot of time to discover everything Im
sure we will on this new path we're taking. We plan to try some bones
this holiday weekend and Ive also got some turkey necks. We plan to
tackle some chicken next week. Starting slow, since we are just still
getting used to this diet. Only been a short time and I already see
positive changes in my kids. I cant beleive I didnt do this sooner!
If anyone has any suggestions for good smaller bones for my kids,
half of whom are fairly toothless I would appreciate it. I am adding
a bit of yogurt just about daily to supplemet them with calcium,
since most really cant gnaw real bones to get any value from them. I
also plan to grind soon, just havent yet. Also, I know the amounts to
feed vary per dog, type, activity, metabolism, etc and etc...but what
is the general goal? I think I read somewhere a certain % of their
ideal adult body weight?? What do some of you do? if the % is
correct, what % do you folks suggest?

Thanks much and I look forward to learning more from everyone willing
to share!
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

Messages in this topic (357)
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10a. Where can I find green tripe?
Posted by: "geraldinebutterfield" gbutterflied@comcast.net geraldinebutterfield
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:14 pm ((PST))

I live in Albany, Or. and have called the grocery stores and butchers
and can't locate green tripe! One store butcher was kind enough to
call his sources, no luck. Where do you Oregon folks get yours?

Thanks soooo much,
Geraldine

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: Where can I find green tripe?
Posted by: "marblekallie" marble@pipeline.com marblekallie
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:20 pm ((PST))

Hi:

You won't find green tripe at a butcher's or a supermarket -- ever.
It is not for human consumption.

http://www.hare-today.com/,

Prey4Pets, http://www.aplaceforpaws.com are among some who sell it for
pets. On the West Coast there is http://www.greentripe.com/

Philippa Jordan
New York City

> Where do you Oregon folks get yours?

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: 1st Timer....Refused to eat it!! Confused!
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:34 pm ((PST))

EDITED BY MODERATOR. TRIM YOUR MESSAGES

You might try giving the meat a few pounds with a mallet..get it juiced up, a bit "broken in" so to speak. Ive seen dogs who prefer to wait until thier housemates have chewed on things a bit, got them good and gooey before they go and snatch the goodies away. Also, since he may be used to the ground meat the texture of an intact piece will be different and by pounding on the meat, you will loosen up the ymmu juices and smells which most of the kids find completly irresistable.
Hope this helps,

Michelle Radcliff

Messages in this topic (7)
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12a. Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
Posted by: "windmilldairy" drwindmill@gmail.com windmilldairy
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:20 pm ((PST))

I have posted in the past with questions about chicken backs and have been trying to locate a
source to buy them in bulk cases in WI or the Twin Cities area....Any help would be
appreciated.

Thanks

Pat

Messages in this topic (3)
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12b. Re: Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:35 pm ((PST))

No need to worry about backs...just buy whole chickens when they go on sale
locally.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "windmilldairy" <drwindmill@gmail.com>

I have posted in the past with questions about chicken backs and have been
trying to locate a
source to buy them in bulk cases in WI or the Twin Cities area....Any help
would be
appreciated.

Messages in this topic (3)
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12c. Re: Chicken Backs in WI or Twin Cities area????
Posted by: "windmilldairy" drwindmill@gmail.com windmilldairy
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:49 pm ((PST))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM AND AND SIGN YOUR MESSAGES

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> No need to worry about backs...just buy whole chickens when they go on sale
> locally.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "windmilldairy" <drwindmill@...>
>
>
> I have posted in the past with questions about chicken backs and have been
> trying to locate a
> source to buy them in bulk cases in WI or the Twin Cities area....Any help
> would be
> appreciated.

I just want something really cheap to feed with my venison and beef......
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12301

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: 1st Timer....Refused to eat it!! Confused!
From: Giselle
1b. Re: 1st Timer....Refused to eat it!! Confused!
From: Shirley
1c. Re: 1st Timer....Refused to eat it!! Confused!
From: Patty Linden
1d. Re: 1st Timer....Refused to eat it!! Confused!
From: Sandee Lee
1e. Re: 1st Timer....Refused to eat it!! Confused!
From: Michael Moore

2a. Re: Trichinosis
From: Kathie Middlemiss

3a. Enough Variety?
From: mrbob02140
3b. Enough Variety?
From: carnesbill
3c. Re: Enough Variety?
From: MORGAN LEWIS
3d. Re: Enough Variety?
From: Tina Berry
3e. Enough Variety?
From: mrbob02140

4a. Re: Heartburn (?)
From: Marguerite

5a. Best of Yahoo Groups
From: mrbob02140
5b. Re: Best of Yahoo Groups
From: Patty Linden

6a. Re: NewBEEZ
From: dario

7a. how/what to feed nursing mom
From: nikkisevy@aol.com
7b. Re: how/what to feed nursing mom
From: Tina Berry
7c. Re: how/what to feed nursing mom
From: Felicia Kost

8a. Re: 8 Week Old Puppy
From: Tina Berry
8b. Re: 8 Week Old Puppy
From: merril Woolf

9a. TREATS for a new raw puppy
From: jaygaughan
9b. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
From: Tina Berry
9c. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
From: Dawn Crosier

10a. anyone feeding raccoon? any problems or reasons not to?
From: sktnurse
10b. Re: anyone feeding raccoon? any problems or reasons not to?
From: chandler_baby

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: 1st Timer....Refused to eat it!! Confused!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:36 am ((PST))

Hi, uh Lisa, is it?
Sounds like you boy wasn't sure if he was given
food, a toy or something to take care of! ^_^ Its a common enough occurrence
with new-to-raw dogs.

There's a few things you can do to help him understand that its *really*
food, and its *really* his to eat. ; )

Getting out of the mindset that 'dogs must be fed in a dog dish' can help
your dog to learn to eat raw. Feed him in his regular eating place, if this
is a really happy and comfortable place for him, a place where he doesn't
feel he has to guard his food from house mates or have an audience. Put an
old towel, blanket or rug down in that spot and put the food on it.
Essentially giving him 'permission' to eat 'out of the box', can help him
learn that engaging with this new shape of food is OK.

Rolling his new foods in ground tripe can help. Its really stinky, but thats
why dogs love it!

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/134336

*Message #134336*

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/130758 *

*Message #130758*
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Nov 21, 2007 8:17 AM, lisakzuber <lisakzuber@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I gave my dog a small game hen yesterday. He was excited because he
> knew I was giving him food. He picked it up very gently and licked it
> a couple of times. He then moved it to different places 2 or 3 times
> licked it a couple more times and then was done with it.
>

> <snip.
>

> Are there any tricks to getting
> him to eat it? I placed an order yesterday for a TON of raw meat and I
> am thinking I should cancel it. Help!
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: 1st Timer....Refused to eat it!! Confused!
Posted by: "Shirley" ssthunderpony@yahoo.com ssthunderpony
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:11 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lisakzuber" <lisakzuber@...> wrote:
>
Are there any tricks to getting
> him to eat it? I placed an order yesterday for a TON of raw meat and
I
> am thinking I should cancel it. Help!
>
########### lisa, , After 15 minutes take it up and save in the
refrigerator for the next meal. Missing meals is not harmful and no
dog has ever starved to death with a hunk o chicken in front of him.

Also do not fuss and talk to him while he is eating/figuring it out .
Stay a distance that still allows you to monitor his eating.

You did OK cutting it open but that is all you need to do for the
first time , just be quiet and watch or else your dog will be
training you to be his servant instead of his pack leader. You toss
food and he eats it. That is all !

Remember to stick to one protein source for the first week or 2 .

Good Luck,
Shirley & The Kitchen Wolves

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: 1st Timer....Refused to eat it!! Confused!
Posted by: "Patty Linden" pattykat3@yahoo.com pattykat3
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:03 am ((PST))

lisakzuber <lisakzuber@yahoo.com> wrote: I gave my dog a small game hen yesterday. He was excited because he
knew I was giving him food. He picked it up very gently and licked it
a couple of times. He then moved it to different places 2 or 3 times
licked it a couple more times and then was done with it.

Hi Lisa,
My dog, Mica, and I are also new to this. He's been eating raw for about 2 months now, and started out very much like you describe your dog. Eventually, I began rubbing a tiny bit of nutritional yeast on his food (a whole game hen), and this really seemed to do the trick! He licked it for a long time, then began tearing off pieces of meat. I don't know how big your dog is, but mine is a 13# pomeranian, and it takes him about 4 days to finish off a game hen. I've read where some on this list recommended sprinkling a little Parmesan cheese to get them started. He just needs something to entice him into eating. My little Mica now doesn't need anything sprinkled on the meat to get him started. Hope this might help--
:-) Patty

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: 1st Timer....Refused to eat it!! Confused!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:49 am ((PST))

It's never too late...don't cancel that meat order!! :))

You can try warming up the food (in a baggie in warm water), slicing into it
in a few spots to give him a starting place and "release" the odor a bit,
sprinkle with Parmesan smashing some down into the slices.

Raw chicken is quite bland compared to kibble so sometimes it just needs to
be spiced up a bit. Also, if you still have kibble in your house, get it
out of there. The smell is powerful and some dogs will hold out hoping for
you to give in and feed it!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "lisakzuber" <lisakzuber@yahoo.com>

I cut it in half thinking it was to big for him to
figure out what to do with it. Also I thought if he got a taste of the
inside it would trigger something in him. He is older (6 yrs) I am
wondering is it just too late to try and switch him to something he
has never had before??? That is sooo different from what he is used
to. Has anyone else had this problem? Are there any tricks to getting
him to eat it? I placed an order yesterday for a TON of raw meat and I
am thinking I should cancel it. Help!

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1e. Re: 1st Timer....Refused to eat it!! Confused!
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:42 am ((PST))

>> I cut it in half thinking it was to big for him to figure out what to do with it. Also I thought if he got a taste of the inside it would trigger something in him. He is older (6 yrs) I am wondering is it just too late to try and switch him to something he has never had before??? That is sooo different from what he is used
to. Has anyone else had this problem? <<

When I switched to rawfeeding over 6 yrs. ago, one of my Corgis was 6 and one was 8; they switched with no problem, but some dogs just don't "get" it right away. My 8 yr. old Corgi was, thankfully, convinced that I'd finally gotten it right and was feeding him real food for the first time.
But, there are *lots* of tricks you can try -- very lightly searing the meat for just a few seconds to enhance the smell, for example. Raw meat is very bland compared to kibble (which has grease/additives sprayed on for flavor). You can also "ribbon" the meat so your dog has something to grab onto. You can sprinkle a little parmesean cheese or garlic onto it. This is discussed often, so try searching the archives for this subject.
Keep offering the food -- you can try various things, but remember this -- a healthy dog won't starve itself to death in the presence of food. Your dog will figure it out, and will be so much healthier and happier when all is said and done.

-- Anne and the PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Trichinosis
Posted by: "Kathie Middlemiss" geekgirl717@gmail.com katjermid
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:55 am ((PST))

Jo:

I really hope that you find out what is wrong with this dog and get
things sorted.

On the comment about an indoor dog and rats, I just wanted to offer that
simply because the dog is kept inside does not mean they do not have
access to rats.

I say this because *my* dogs brought me a rat this morning. They are
doing sewer work four neighborhoods over and apparently disturbed a
rather large colony of rats. People are having them come up through
drains in their houses. While it may not be typical for an indoor dog
to come in contact with rats/eat rats, it is possible. (I have put
cinderblocks over the drains in my basement sink as that is how we
believe they came up in my house.)

And just in time for the holiday here too. Ugh!

Good luck with the pup and please let us know how she makes out.

--
~Kathie Middlemiss

I'm looking to take back my life, get motivated, stay on track and get healthy with other people just like me. Sound good? Then check out www.sparkpeople.com

Tell them Kathie717 sent you and add me to your friends. We can do this together!

Messages in this topic (23)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Enough Variety?
Posted by: "mrbob02140" bob_roth@comcast.net mrbob02140
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:55 am ((PST))

Mainly chicken isn't enough variety. I know it's very easy to fall
into the cheap chicken rut (especially if money is tight), but
ideally you should be feeding chicken once a week instead of six days
a week.
>
OMG! I'm stunned and bummed! I want to do this right, but money is
tight. The chicken ranges from $.79/lb for the hind qtrs to $.99 for
the breasts... The rabbit costs $2.49/lb (but he loves it so much I
don't mind) and the beef over $2/lb. I have also fed turkey necks for
$.99/lb and occasionaly pork with bones for $.99/lb that seem to hard
so I smash them with a meat cleaver. What should I do? I got started
on this using Bill's page that consisted of a mainly chicken back diet
(which he also gets when I can find them - also $.99/lb). I figured
if chicken backs were a good staple, the hind quarters were much
better, with more meat than bone. I have seen pork ribs for $1.99/lb
are those bones suitable? I have stayed away from boneless cuts of
pork but I could probably afford to add some of that, and I will add
turkey.

I still am stunned by the idea that chicken only once a week is ideal.
I live in the city and have no access to hunters or anything like
that. I have no room for a freezer so I can't buy in bulk.

Do others agree that chicken once a week is ideal? What are the
health consequences of a heavy chicken diet? As I mentioned in my
original post he is doing great on this diet as far as I can tell.
His weight is great, he has a ton of enery, his coat is great, he's
had no health problems, but I guess it's his long term health I need
to worry about. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Bob

PS. If there are any of you in the Boston area, perhaps we could get
together and buy in bulk.

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Enough Variety?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:33 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mrbob02140" <bob_roth@...> wrote:
>
> OMG! I'm stunned and bummed! I want to do this right, but money is
> tight. The chicken ranges from $.79/lb for the hind qtrs to
> $.99 for the breasts...

Have you checked at Walmart? Most places in the country, Walmart
sells chicken quarters for around $.47/lb. in 10lb. packages. Thats
where I get all my quarters. I get my backs in bulk for $.26/lb.
You need to be able to buy in bulk. It's LOTS cheaper.

> I have also fed turkey necks for
> $.99/lb and occasionaly pork with bones for $.99/lb that seem
> to hard so I smash them with a meat cleaver. What should I do?

You should be able to get turkey necks much cheaper in bulk. The
price will vary greatly from time to time. I get them anywhere from
$.50/lb to as much as $.80/lb. I wouldn't fool with pork bones if
you have to smash them.

> I figured
> if chicken backs were a good staple, the hind quarters were much
> better, with more meat than bone.

You are exactly right. I feed backs every day and quarters 2 or 3
times a week. Have been for over 5 years. I also feed 2 or 3
boneless meals a week.

> I have seen pork ribs for $1.99/lb are those bones suitable?

They are OK but I don't feed them. I prefer pork roasts when on
sale.

> I have stayed away from boneless cuts of
> pork but I could probably afford to add some of that, and I
> will add turkey.

Cool. The boneless pork would be great.

> I still am stunned by the idea that chicken only once a week
> is ideal.

Bob, it's one person's ideal. You've got to realize that there are
probably no 2 people that feed exactly alike. Thats the beauty of
the raw diet. You feed raw meat, boness, and organs from a variety
of animals. Mostly meat, some bone, some organs. Exact ratios
don't matter. Exact meats don't matter. Exact bones don't matter
as along as your dog can eat them. The exact amount of variety
doesn't matter. Keeping those things in mind, the entire diet is up
to you.

> I live in the city and have no access to hunters or anything like
> that. I have no room for a freezer so I can't buy in bulk.

You need to figure out a way to handle bulk because of costs and
ease of use. My first freezer was very small. It was about 4' high
and a lot smaller than a refigerator.

> Do others agree that chicken once a week is ideal?

Hehe, Since I feed chicken every day, of course I don't.

> What are the health consequences of a heavy chicken diet?

None. I will compare my dog's health with anyones.

> As I mentioned in my
> original post he is doing great on this diet as far as I can tell.
> His weight is great, he has a ton of enery, his coat is
> great, he's
> had no health problems, but I guess it's his long term health
> I need
> to worry about. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I think your dog is telling you what you are feeding him is great.
Don't worry too much that your method of feeding raw doesn't conform
with someone elses. You will gain more confidence as time goes on.
My oldest dog has been eating this diet for over 5 years and has
never had a health problem during that time. My youngest has been
fed raw for all of his 3 years of life and has had no health
problems either.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: Enough Variety?
Posted by: "MORGAN LEWIS" shadowland22000@yahoo.com shadowland22000
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:57 am ((PST))

HAVE YOU CHECKED THE PRICE OF "HIGH QUALITY" KIBBLE. TRY $1.00- 1.50 POUND; SO RAW IS A BETTER DEAL BOTH IN PRICE AND QUALITY. MORGAN

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mrbob02140" <bob_roth@...> wrote:
>
> OMG! I'm stunned and bummed! I want to do this right, but money is
> tight. The chicken ranges from $.79/lb for the hind qtrs to
> $.99 for the breasts...

> I have also fed turkey necks for
> $.99/lb and occasionaly pork with bones for $.99/lb that seem
> to hard so I smash them with a meat cleaver. What should I do?

> I figured
> if chicken backs were a good staple, the hind quarters were much
> better, with more meat than bone.

You are exactly right. I feed backs every day and quarters 2 or 3
times a week. Have been for over 5 years. I also feed 2 or 3
boneless meals a week.

> I have seen pork ribs for $1.99/lb are those bones suitable?

They are OK but I don't feed them. I prefer pork roasts when on
sale.

> I have stayed away from boneless cuts of
> pork but I could probably afford to add some of that, and I
> will add turkey.

Cool. The boneless pork would be great.

> I still am stunned by the idea that chicken only once a week
> is ideal.

> I live in the city and have no access to hunters or anything like
> that. I have no room for a freezer so I can't buy in bulk.

You need to figure out a way to handle bulk because of costs and
ease of use. My first freezer was very small. It was about 4' high
and a lot smaller than a refigerator.

> Do others agree that chicken once a week is ideal?

Hehe, Since I feed chicken every day, of course I don't.

> What are the health consequences of a heavy chicken diet?

None. I will compare my dog's health with anyones.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Morgan and His Angels
Precious, OFA
Princess, CGC, TDI, GSDCA Health Award

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

3d. Re: Enough Variety?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:32 am ((PST))

"As I mentioned in my original post he is doing great on this diet as far as
I can tell. His weight is great, he has a ton of enery, his coat is great,
he's had no health problems, but I guess it's his long term health I need to
worry about."

If you keep him on a raw diet, you most likely will not have to worry about
long term health either. Call around to grocery stores/butchers and see
where you can buy in bulk. When we lived in Seattle, I found a butcher that
would sell me whole beef heart for $1/lb and chicken necks/backs for
.49./lb. I researched kibble for about a year before acquiring my next dog,
and the one I started with was 1.49/lb human grade. Raw can actually be
cheaper and if you include no vet bills it get's even cheaper. Raw diet
alone does not make your dog have no issues, but it's a great start. Other
contributing factors are pesticides, chemicals, some city water, any
chemical you put in your dogs body ie; wormers; there are lots of natural
remedies to a lot of what vets want us to poison our dogs with - but that's
another group - jstsayno2vaccs and truthaboutvaccines if you want to learn
more on that subject.

But keep feeding raw, find deals, and as far as feeding chicken, I used to
feed it daily for a year because it was what I could afford with the
occassional liver meal. So IMO anything raw is better than kibble - don't
make it complicated - and grocery stores will let you stock up on sales if
you call them ahead of time. In Seattle when Albertson's had chicken or
turkey on sale for .49 I would go buy 30-40 at a time to stock up. Also
invest in used freezers - we have 3 now just for the dogs and each was under
$100 in the paper.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

3e. Enough Variety?
Posted by: "mrbob02140" bob_roth@comcast.net mrbob02140
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:20 am ((PST))

Thanks so much to everyone that replied... I feel much better now and I
guess I am doing alright. I will try to add some more variety of
protein sources when the price is right. You guys are the best! Thanks
for all the advice and support.

Bob

PS. I nominated this group for "Best of Yahoo" and even if it is not
recognized as such, it will always be "Best" in my mind... thanks again!

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Heartburn (?)
Posted by: "Marguerite" semitruestory@gmail.com margo532001
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:55 am ((PST))

Sorry, I dont have an answer for you, just another question for anyone....
Will Slippery Elm help a SEVERE belching problem in an 88 # Golden?
Marguerite

On 11/14/07, jennifer_hell <jenniferhell@web.de> wrote:
>
> Anyone? I ordered Slippery Elm now. Hope that will solve it?
>
> Jennifer
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "jennifer_hell" <jenniferhell@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I hope that is the correct term in English, I looked it up, another
> > term would be pyrosis.
> > What can I do to help Mandy when she's experiencing heartburn?
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Best of Yahoo Groups
Posted by: "mrbob02140" bob_roth@comcast.net mrbob02140
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:55 am ((PST))

I just wanted to mention that I nominated Rawfeeding for "Best of Yahoo
Groups". I would encourage others to do the same... This group
definitely deserves the recognition. As I said in my nomination, "This
is the most helpful, civil group of people I have ever met, answering
hundreds of questions every week and thousands every month"

Bob

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: Best of Yahoo Groups
Posted by: "Patty Linden" pattykat3@yahoo.com pattykat3
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:22 am ((PST))

mrbob02140 <bob_roth@comcast.net> wrote: I just wanted to mention that I nominated Rawfeeding for "Best of Yahoo
Groups". I would encourage others to do the same... This group
definitely deserves the recognition.

Hi Bob,
I couldn't agree with you more!! Where does one go to do the nominating?
:-) Patty

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: NewBEEZ
Posted by: "dario" nanterossi@yahoo.co.uk nanterossi
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:11 am ((PST))

Giselle, many thanks for that. I think its def. too much bone.
nante

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. how/what to feed nursing mom
Posted by: "nikkisevy@aol.com" nikkisevy@aol.com mavreenhering
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:20 am ((PST))

Hello,

I have a new litter of 11 pups and a very tired mommy. What and how
should I feed her to make sure she has enough nourishment and produces enough
milk for these hungry babies. She is an 80 lb Rhodesian Ridgeback if that
helps. Any help and advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Nicole

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

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Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: how/what to feed nursing mom
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:22 am ((PST))

My gsd is about 80 lbs and all I did was increase the same foods I was
already feeding her. Same raw diet, just more of it. I did not supplement
with anything because she was pregnant or nursing, just more food.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: how/what to feed nursing mom
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:35 am ((PST))

Congradulations:)!!!!!!
Felicia

nikkisevy@aol.com wrote:
Hello,

I have a new litter of 11 pups and a very tired mommy.

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

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---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: 8 Week Old Puppy
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:22 am ((PST))

"1. Should I start him with just Bone in-Chicken Breast, or can he
start right out with the recommended 80-10-10 ratio of meat to organ
to bone?"

Bone in chicken breast first, you don't want to upset his tummy with too
much variety at first.

"2. How soon can I begin to introduce different types of foods ie..
beef, pork, turkey, fish and lamb?"

I fed chicken for 3 weeks, then added venison for 3 weeks, then tried pork.
Usually 3 weeks they adjust to new meat- each dog is different.

"3. Which method is best a slow introduction while cutting back on the
kibble, or cold turkey switching?"

Absolutely cold turkey.

--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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8b. Re: 8 Week Old Puppy
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:42 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tdifr62" <tdifraia@...> wrote:
>
> Hi I am going to be bringing home my new 8 week old OEM puppy. He has
> been weaned on kibble and I will be switching him over to raw. I
> currently have a 1 yr old OEM who has been on raw since I brought him
> home at 12 weeks, so I have some experience with raw and have been
> reading this list as well as a few books on raw for the past year.
> My questions are:
> 1. Should I start him with just Bone in-Chicken Breast, or can he
> start right out with the recommended 80-10-10 ratio of meat to organ
> to bone?
> 2. How soon can I begin to introduce different types of foods ie..
> beef, pork, turkey, fish and lamb?
> 3. Which method is best a slow introduction while cutting back on the
> kibble, or cold turkey switching?
> Thanks for all the help!
> Tommy D.

I'm going to jump right in and say just start feeding him raw. I wean mine to raw and
there has never been anything they can't eat or won't eat. It's just dinner to them.

I start with variety and never waiver....but that's just how I do it.
I don't follow any rules and they grow up great. Whatever the adults are eating is what
the pups are eating.
Try the bone-in chicken breasts and see how that works then progess as you see fit. Bet
he'll be eating what the adults are eating pretty quickly.

Merril

Messages in this topic (4)
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9a. TREATS for a new raw puppy
Posted by: "jaygaughan" jaygaughan@yahoo.com jaygaughan
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:20 am ((PST))

I need some help as to what are appropriate treats for an 8 week old
Great Dane puppy already eating all raw? The breeder has him eating
ground chicken backs and green tripe. Since this is my first dog going
all raw I really don't know what to give him for treats.

What can I have on hand so my kids don't hand him any Oreo's?

Thank you

Jay

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:32 am ((PST))

"Since this is my first dog going all raw I really don't know what to give
him for treats."

Mine get raw treats - either frozen in individual little baggies to make
them treat size and then I feed it to them frozen. Or cooked meat (less
messy) cubed up and kept in the frig for quick treats. I usually use heart
and liver for treats- baked then cut into 1/2" squares or smaller for
training treats. Raw heart isn't too messy cubed up for treats. Also
people freeze meat/yogurt in kongs for long keep occupied treats. Ground
meat works great since it sticks in the kong better without falling out and
takes them a long time to get it. And when it thaws, it still sticks inside
the kong.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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9c. Re: TREATS for a new raw puppy
Posted by: "Dawn Crosier" dlcrosier@sbcglobal.net dlc110161
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:00 am ((PST))

Mine gets parts of hardboiled eggs as treats. I also use the Salmon Oil
capsule as a treat, with that, we just have to watch that everyone doesn't
give her one a day. LOL - that would be bad!, but the hardboiled egg is
pretty easy, once the one for the day is gone, no more treats.

Dawn

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Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. anyone feeding raccoon? any problems or reasons not to?
Posted by: "sktnurse" sktnurse@yahoo.com sktnurse
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:00 am ((PST))

I may have a new source for skinned raccoons and dont know of any
reasons not to feed it. these will be wild hunted raccoons. would be
great if could feed, price is right. HA. what do yo think?
sherry and 2 soon to be 3 raw fed dogs.

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: anyone feeding raccoon? any problems or reasons not to?
Posted by: "chandler_baby" chandler_baby@yahoo.com chandler_baby
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:43 am ((PST))

Personally, I would say do not feed. I would stick to herbivores as
food for a carnivore. I see raccoons as carnivores, they eat a lot of
meat. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but wolves will not eat
raccoons, they will kill them but not eat them.

Roxane

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sktnurse" <sktnurse@...> wrote:
>
> I may have a new source for skinned raccoons and dont know of any
> reasons not to feed it. these will be wild hunted raccoons. would
be
> great if could feed, price is right. HA. what do yo think?
> sherry and 2 soon to be 3 raw fed dogs.
>

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12300

There are 14 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Enough Variety?
From: h h

2. Fw: Fwd: The 7 Up's of Thanksgiving
From: Tracey Leaym

3a. Re: Feeding rabbits -- disappointing response!
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski
3b. Re: Feeding rabbits -- disappointing response!
From: carnesbill
3c. Re: Feeding rabbits -- disappointing response!
From: miensasis

4a. Re: Must Read
From: Sandee Lee
4b. Re: Must Read
From: carnesbill
4c. Re: Must Read
From: Sandee Lee
4d. Re: Must Read
From: Giselle

5a. 8 Week Old Puppy
From: tdifr62
5b. Re: 8 Week Old Puppy
From: Giselle

6a. Re: NewBEEZ
From: dario
6b. Re: NewBEEZ
From: Giselle

7. 1st Timer....Refused to eat it!! Confused!
From: lisakzuber

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Enough Variety?
Posted by: "h h" deedeekinsisme@yahoo.com tarbedyh
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:51 pm ((PST))

My only concern is if he is getting enough
variety. His diet consists mainly of chicken hind quarters, a chicken
breast with bone in once a week, beef once a week and rabbit once every
week or two with a few ounces of beef liver just about every day

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mainly chicken isn't enough variety. I know it's very easy to fall into the cheap chicken rut (especially if money is tight), but ideally you should be feeding chicken once a week instead of six days a week.

HEIDI MARIE
~with the woofs-Cheyenne and Lazy B~
~and the moggies-Minerva, Shasta, and Misty-Jo~

---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2. Fw: Fwd: The 7 Up's of Thanksgiving
Posted by: "Tracey Leaym" onfireivu@yahoo.com onfireivu
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:51 pm ((PST))

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Carrie Grubaugh <grubaugh74@yahoo.com>
To: Bsma <lil_mama_30505@yahoo.com>; Katrina 2 <xxrockcutiexx3@aol.com>; Kim <kstarrj@yahoo.com>; Mom <flillian2@aol.com>; Nichole <nichole82982@yahoo.com>; Rob and Debbie <tubbsundancer@chartermi.net>; Starr <kissntell9669@yahoo.com>; Tammy <angel_halfpint@yahoo.com>; Uncle Steve <abeargbear2001@yahoo.com>; Jamie <jktubb@charter.net>; Renee <reneeeash@yahoo.com>; Deb <debidick2@aol.com>; Jason <JD_libra01@yahoo.com>; Kimberly <kimberly-doherty@hotmail.com>; Laura <medgirl1987@yahoo.com>; Shelly <shellydice63@yahoo.com>; Teena <teenagarver@charter.net>; Tracey <onfireivu@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 8:45:19 PM
Subject: Fwd: The 7 Up's of Thanksgiving

Note: forwarded message attached.

Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

The 7 Ups!

1. Wake Up !!
Decide to have a good day.
'This is the day the Lord hath made;
let us rejoice and be glad in it.'
Psalms 118:24

2. Dress Up !!

The best way to dress up is to put on a smile.
A smile is an inexpensive way to improve your looks.
'The Lord does not look at the things man looks at.
Man looks at outward appearance,
but the Lord looks at the heart.'
I Samuel 16:7

3. Shut Up!!
Say nice things and learn to listen.
God gave us two ears and one mouth,
so He must have meant for us to do twice as much listening as talking.

'He who guards his lips guards his soul.'
Proverbs 13:3

4. Stand Up!!

.. . . for what you believe in.
Stand for something or you will fall for anything.
'Let us not be weary in doing good; for at the proper time,
we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good...'
Galatians 6:9-10

5. Look Up !!

.. . . to the Lord.
'I can do everything through Christ who strengthens me'.
Philippians 4:13

6. Reach Up !!
.. . . for something higher.
'Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and lean not unto your own understanding.
In all your ways, acknowledge Him, and He will direct your path.'
Proverbs 3:5-6

7. Lift Up !!
.. . . your Prayers.
'Do not worry about anything; instead
PRAY ABOUT EVERYTHING.'
Philippians 4:6

A POSITIVE THOUGHT
If God had a refrigerator, your picture would be on it.
If He had a wallet, your photo would be in it.
He sends you flowers every spring, and a sunrise every morning.
Whenever you want to talk, He'll listen.
He could live anywhere in the universe, and He chose your heart.
What about the Christmas gift He sent you in Bethlehem;
not to mention that Friday at Calvary.
Face it, He's crazy about you.

Invite people here that you care about.
I thought this was mighty special, just like you.
Pass this on and brighten someone's day, and remember . .

God answers Knee-Mail!

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

Michelle (Shelly) Dice

Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

The 7 Ups!

1. Wake Up !!
Decide to have a good day.
'This is the day the Lord hath made;
let us rejoice and be glad in it.'
Psalms 118:24

2. Dress Up !!

3. Shut Up!!
Say nice things and learn to listen.
God gave us two ears and one mouth,
so He must have meant for us to do twice as much listening as talking.

'He who guards his lips guards his soul.'
Proverbs 13:3

4. Stand Up!!

5. Look Up !!

.. . . to the Lord.
'I can do everything through Christ who strengthens me'.
Philippians 4:13

7. Lift Up !!
.. . . your Prayers.
'Do not worry about anything; instead
PRAY ABOUT EVERYTHING.'
Philippians 4:6

Invite people here that you care about.
I thought this was mighty special, just like you.
Pass this on and brighten someone's day, and remember . .

God answers Knee-Mail!

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

Michelle (Shelly) Dice

Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

____________________________________________________________________________________
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.
Make Yahoo! your homepage.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Feeding rabbits -- disappointing response!
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:52 pm ((PST))

about feeding rabbits....I have no problem that some people eat them, and i realize that it is natural prey for a dog, but i am active in bunny rescue, and have fostered for the house rabbit society. I have 2 bunnies now.Soon, they will be living at the preschool i teach at, because i am fostering a litter of pups, and i just don't have the room in my house.
Because of all this, i am reluctant o feed rabbits. I really want to, i know they would love it, i just don't know if that would be, like really wrong. Would i never be able to have bunnies again if i feed them rabbits?
None of my friends feed raw, so i am having a hard enough time explaining to them that feeding my dogs chicken won't make them killers, but would this be pushing it?
What do you do if you have bunnies and love them, but want to feed rabbits to your dogs?
mallory

---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Feeding rabbits -- disappointing response!
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:46 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Mallory Kwiatkowski
<m_k_jesusfreak3@...> wrote:
>
> What do you do if you have bunnies and love them, but want to
> feed rabbits to your dogs?

Rabbit is not a necessary part of the diet. If you don't feel right
feeding them then don't. Whether or not you feed rabbits to the
dogs will have nothing to do with whether or not your dos will go
after the rabbits. Most dogs will chase rabbits if the rabbit is
running away regardless of his diet. I have known of kibble fed
dogs that ate the pet rabbits. I have known of raw fed dogs that
never bother pet rabbits even if they are fed rabbit in the diet.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: Feeding rabbits -- disappointing response!
Posted by: "miensasis" kpmnlm@patmedia.net miensasis
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:06 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Mallory Kwiatkowski
<m_k_jesusfreak3@...> wrote:
>
> about feeding rabbits....I have no problem that some people eat
them...(but) i am reluctant o feed rabbits. I really want to, i know
they would love it...Would i never be able to have bunnies again if i
feed them rabbits?

Mallory...

I struggled with feeding the rabbits as well. I have always owned
small animals like bunnies, guinea pigs, etc... as pets. I had to
work up to feeding rabbits....they were in the freezer for several
weeks. Funny thing is that once I got past the initial mental
weirdness of thinking it was once a furry bunny, it became like
chicken to me. It definitely helped that there was no head and it
was skinned. Also, the stomach and intestines were removed from the
belly...just the heart, kidneys and liver were still intact.

As for feeding bunnies and your ability to keep them as pets....your
dogs will likely not associate the rabbit you feed with the bunnies
you keep as pets if they haven't historically done so. This has to
do more with prey drive, than what is fed at mealtime.

Nancy

Messages in this topic (7)
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________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Must Read
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:33 pm ((PST))

Well, the diet she describes is high in bone and not what would be
recommended on this list. The normal prey animal would be more like 80%
meat...I don't see that in the diet she describes. Regardless, no one feeds
the same thing every day, week or month and balance is over time. I
wouldn't put too much stock in her analysis.

But, more importantly, what exactly are you feeding? Are you following the
prey model of 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs?
It's hard to tell from your description, but it sounds like you are lacking
in meat content. And you should be feeding whole foods rather than ground
meat, dump the veggies and supplements other than possibly the salmon oil.
Add some pork roasts, beef briskets and heart, some nice fatty fish (like
salmon), whole turkeys or chickens rather than bony wings, whatever other
red meat you have available in your area.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "logbreath2000" <elisabethlasser@sbcglobal.net>

BUT: he eats dirt and grass and other animal poop-which (poop) he hasn't
done since he
was a puppy.
Now he has eye discharge - eye infection????
He is a young dog - coming up to two and a half years old.
Seems to me he's lacking in some nutrition - which?
I feed whatever he will eat: beef: grounf and ribs, lamb necks, ground
turkey, turkey
wings, liver, kidney all in small amounts, raw eggs with shell
I even give him veggie mush, Salmon oil, Vitamin E, Probiotics, Enzymes

http://www.dogs-training.net/articles/dog-food/Dogs-Can-Look-Good-An-A-Bad-
Diet.html

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Must Read
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:45 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "logbreath2000"
<elisabethlasser@...> wrote:
>
> We've had diarhea and throwing up, he has refused to eat
> certain meats ......

Not real unusual for a newly switched dog.

> I've spend a great deal of money so far -the dog looks good on
> the raw diet, but he looked
> good on kibble too- except he got every infection going, which
> was the reason I switched to raw.....

As time goes on you wlil learn how to buy raw products. It will get
a lot cheaper down the road. I feed 2 Great Danes and 2 cats on
about $60 to $70/mo.

> BUT: he eats dirt and grass and other animal poop-which (poop)
> he hasn't done since he was a puppy.

He's a dog. He's gonna do that some. Cut out the veggies and
supplements and he will probably stop eating his own poop. My dogs
mostly eat deer and rabbit poop but not thier own.

> Now he has eye discharge - eye infection????

Well before the raw diet he caught every infection that came along.
He has only been on raw a couple of months. Give it a chance. It's
not a miracle cure for every known disease or infection. I'm sure
the infections, illnesses will decrease as time goes on.

> He is a young dog - coming up to two and a half years old.
> Seems to me he's lacking in some nutrition - which?
> I feed whatever he will eat: beef: grounf and ribs, lamb
> necks, ground turkey, turkey
> wings, liver, kidney all in small amounts, raw eggs with shell
> I even give him veggie mush, Salmon oil, Vitamin E,
> Probiotics, Enzymes

He's not lacking anything. Drop the veggie mush, vitamin E,
Probiotics and Enzymes. He doesn't need any of them. He is a
carnivore ... he has no need for veggies. He has plenty of vitamins
in his diet and he produces his own probiotics and Enzymes. No need
to add more of either.

You might add chicken to the diet as it is usually very cheap. You
were complaining about costs. Adding chicken will help lower
costs. I would suggest adding Beef heart as it is high in
nutritional value also. I wouldn't grind the food either. The dog
has a great grinder build in.

> http://www.dogs-training.net/articles/dog-food/Dogs-Can-Look-Good-
An-A-Bad-
> Diet.html

Always be wary of information you are given by someone who stands to
make money off decisions based on that information. That web page
sells dog food. Of course they are going to tell you nothing except
their food is good for any dog no matter what.

You are a little on the impatient side. You want instant results
and that rarely happens with diets. Be patient and continue what
you are doing. You will see results soon.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: Must Read
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:11 pm ((PST))

She also offers a nutritional consultation for $250.00 ($300 for a puppy) or
a diet analysis for $100!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "carnesbill" <carnesw@bellsouth.net>

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

4d. Re: Must Read
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:31 am ((PST))

Hi, Elisabeth!
Looking good is relative, many people can't believe how
healthy and handsome their dogs are after a few weeks or months of feeding
raw successfully. Not to mention their sweet breath. ; )

Have you been posting here for help during the last two months? Reading the
files and links and archived messages? There's a plethora of information on
this list and many experienced raw feeders quite willing to offer support
and advice.

But, if you don't subscribe to our basic tenets - feeding a species
appropriate raw whole prey model diet, with no unnecessary supps or
additives, adjusting and tweaking as needed for each individual dog, then
all our advice would be for nothing.

"From The Merck Veterinary Manual: "The carbohydrates added to pet foods are
mainly in the form of polysaccharides (starch and cellulose),
disaccharides (sucrose and lactose), and monosaccharides (glucose and
fructose). Carbohydrates are a less expensive source of energy than
fat or protein. In dogs, there appears to be **no dietary requirement
for carbohydrate**."
Are you paying the woman on the link you posted, as an "expert", to tell you
that you need to feed ground meat and bones, bony parts, veggies, and a
bunch of supps? She seems adept at marketing her business, but ascribes to
the "kitchen sink' method for nutrition, dog training advice, etc.

If you are paying her a consulting fee, and buying supps from her, no wonder
you find it expensive to feed 'raw'!
I'll give you my advice for free! ^_^

I'd recommend that you start over; no supps, no veg, no meat or organ
variety, no eggs.
Buy some whole chickens. Unenhanced - no injected salt solutions or
flavorings or seasonings added, these can cause diarrhea, vomiting, itching,
and increased urination in some dogs.
Feed 2-3% of his IDEAL adult body weight a day. Google can calculate that
for you.
Cut the chickens into appropriate sized portions and divide the daily amount
into 2 meals.
Feed the gizzards and hearts with the bony parts. If your dog is small and
isn't liable to swallow it whole, add the neck in with part of a breast for
a meal. Otherwise, don't bother to feed it.
Hold the liver for now, freeze it.
Feed this way for a week.
Trim visible fat, if you get loose stools, and maybe some skin, too.
Gradually trim less and less.
When you have no loose stools for a week, then add a bit of liver to a daily
meal, the size of a pencil eraser for a week.
When you have no loose stools for a week, start adding bits of ONE other
protein, pork roasts or beef heart or turkey, whatever.
Gradually increase the bits of the new protein, while decreasing the amounts
of the chicken. Cut the meat from the chicken bones and feed the soft bones
with the new protein meat.
Continue this way, only moving on to adding a new protein when your dog
tells you he is ready.
Go back to feeding chicken, or the last protein he was OK on, if you have a
digestive upset, and move on again only when your dog is OK with it.
GO SLOW, add a bit of kidney or spleen or sweetbread to a meal a few times a
week after your dog is accustomed to several proteins and is having no
upsets. Less is more.

If your dog has vomiting or very loose stools now, I'd fast him first for a
day. Offer plenty of low sodium low fat broth, with some Slippery Elm Bark
Powder whisked in. A tsp per 8-10 ounces should be fine.
Then next day, start with small chicken breast meals.

Here's some links to helpful websites and archived messages, in case you've
missed them;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts.html

*
http://www.recipetips.com/kitchen-tips/t-37-436/Cutting-Up-a-Whole-Turkey.asp
*
*http://tinyurl.com/389ogz
*

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawlearning.com/supplementmyths.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

http://rawfeddogs.net/FAQlist

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/130758 *

*Message #130758*

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/134336 *

*Message #134336*
HTH
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Nov 21, 2007 12:17 AM, logbreath2000 <elisabethlasser@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> I've been feeding my dog raw for 2 month now - it hasn't been 'plain
> sailing' all the way so
> far.
> We've had diarrhea and throwing up
>

> <snip>
> I feed whatever he will eat: beef: ground and ribs, lamb necks, ground
> turkey, turkey
> wings, liver, kidney all in small amounts, raw eggs with shell
> I even give him veggie mush, Salmon oil, Vitamin E, Probiotics, Enzymes
>
>
> http://www.dogs-training.net/articles/dog-food/Dogs-Can-Look-Good-An-A-Bad-
> Diet.html
>
> Please reply
> Elisabeth
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. 8 Week Old Puppy
Posted by: "tdifr62" tdifraia@comcast.net tdifr62
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:06 am ((PST))

Hi I am going to be bringing home my new 8 week old OEM puppy. He has
been weaned on kibble and I will be switching him over to raw. I
currently have a 1 yr old OEM who has been on raw since I brought him
home at 12 weeks, so I have some experience with raw and have been
reading this list as well as a few books on raw for the past year.
My questions are:
1. Should I start him with just Bone in-Chicken Breast, or can he
start right out with the recommended 80-10-10 ratio of meat to organ
to bone?
2. How soon can I begin to introduce different types of foods ie..
beef, pork, turkey, fish and lamb?
3. Which method is best a slow introduction while cutting back on the
kibble, or cold turkey switching?
Thanks for all the help!
Tommy D.

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: 8 Week Old Puppy
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:33 am ((PST))

Hi, Tommy!
Congratulations on the new pup!

Hi I am going to be bringing home my new 8 week old OEM puppy. He has
> been weaned on kibble and I will be switching him over to raw. I
> currently have a 1 yr old OEM who has been on raw since I brought him
> home at 12 weeks, so I have some experience with raw and have been
> reading this list as well as a few books on raw for the past year.
> My questions are:
> 1. Should I start him with just Bone in-Chicken Breast, or can he
> start right out with the recommended 80-10-10 ratio of meat to organ
> to bone?
> **** Bone in chicken breast is a great way to start a pup off for the
> first few meals. You can then move on to the rest of the chicken parts. ****
>

> 2. How soon can I begin to introduce different types of foods ie..
> beef, pork, turkey, fish and lamb?
> **** After feeding through a few chickens with no problems, you can start
> adding bits and hunks of a new protein every few days. Add a bit more of
> each new protein to the chicken gradually. Hold off on the organs for
> awhile, maybe several weeks, then add dribs and drabs of organs to regular
> meals, watching to see how the pup's digestion responds. If you get
> digestive upset, retreat to just chicken until the stools normalize. ****
>

> 3. Which method is best a slow introduction while cutting back on the
> kibble, or cold turkey switching?
>

> **** Cold turkey, man! ^_^ Ditch that kibble! ****
>

> Thanks for all the help!
> Tommy D.
>

> **** YQW! TC Giselle with Bea in New Jersey ****
>

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Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: NewBEEZ
Posted by: "dario" nanterossi@yahoo.co.uk nanterossi
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:06 am ((PST))

Thanks for you replys.
Will try the drumsticks, half chicken and all.

leave a few more querys...
Little pupp eats all the food no prob. His poop is in bits, hard and not that much. Should
he eating more meat?

One other thing is over the last week Ive noticed his eyes are a bit blood shot. Not sure if
its stress. Could this be to do with change of diet?

Nante

Messages in this topic (5)
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6b. Re: NewBEEZ
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:56 am ((PST))

Hi, Nante!
Lots more meat will soften his poops.

Raw meat and bone is much more bioavailable than Doom Nuggets (*tm Carrie)
and so there is more of it utilized by the pup for growing and much less
waste to come out.

A diet much higher in bone content than 10-15% can cause harder, drier,
whitish, and crumbly poops.

Constipation could cause your pup to strain to poop and so possibly his eyes
could become bloodshot.

'Normal' poops on a raw diet vary with what is fed, chicken causes light
yellowish stool, boneless or fatty meatymeat meals makes for softer, looser,
maybe even runny poops, black tarry poops come from meals high in organs or
heart. None of this wrong, but is reflective of what is fed.

Try for 80% meatymeat - muscle, skin, fat, fur, feathers, connective tissue.
For practical purposes, meatymeat also includes heart, gizzards, tongue,
tripe.

10% EDIBLE bone - if the pup can't crunch it up and digest it, or
shouldn't, then it don't count.

10% organs - 3-5% liver and 5-7% 'other' - kidney, spleen, sweetbreads, etc.

You shouldn't worry about balancing each meal perfectly, but over weeks and
months this is what you want to shoot for.
This list supports and promotes a species appropriate raw whole prey model
diet, you should spend some time reading the files and recommended links and
websites and archived messages, there's lots of great advice there for you
already, you just have to search it out, or ask!

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Nov 21, 2007 3:06 AM, dario <nanterossi@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Thanks for you replies.
> Will try the drumsticks, half chicken and all.
>
> leave a few more queries...
> Little pup eats all the food no prob. His poop is in bits, hard and not
> that much. Should
> he eating more meat?
>
> One other thing is over the last week Ive noticed his eyes are a bit blood
> shot. Not sure if
> its stress. Could this be to do with change of diet?
>
> Nante
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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7. 1st Timer....Refused to eat it!! Confused!
Posted by: "lisakzuber" lisakzuber@yahoo.com lisakzuber
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:20 am ((PST))

I gave my dog a small game hen yesterday. He was excited because he
knew I was giving him food. He picked it up very gently and licked it
a couple of times. He then moved it to different places 2 or 3 times
licked it a couple more times and then was done with it. When he moved
it he was very gentle with it, very careful not to bite it. He acted
as if it was his friend and he didn't want to hurt it. The only other
raw meat he has ever had is ground beef. He loves that so I thought he
would like this. I cut it in half thinking it was to big for him to
figure out what to do with it. Also I thought if he got a taste of the
inside it would trigger something in him. He is older (6 yrs) I am
wondering is it just too late to try and switch him to something he
has never had before??? That is sooo different from what he is used
to. Has anyone else had this problem? Are there any tricks to getting
him to eat it? I placed an order yesterday for a TON of raw meat and I
am thinking I should cancel it. Help!

Messages in this topic (1)
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