Feed Pets Raw Food: Nov 2, 2007

Friday, November 2, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12231

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Introduction(s)
From: katkellm
1b. Re: Introduction(s)
From: Laura Wimpey
1c. More Happy Tails
From: krystal_brr
1d. Re: More Happy Tails
From: katkellm
1e. Re: More Happy Tails
From: jennifer_hell
1f. Re: Introduction(s)
From: mmc2315

2a. Re: So....Deer Not Going Over Well...
From: Donna
2b. Re: So....Deer Not Going Over Well...
From: helpshelteranimals

3a. Eggs and Puppies
From: joanpmail
3b. Re: Eggs and Puppies
From: Tina Berry

4a. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
From: Dawn Crosier
4b. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
From: Yasuko herron
4c. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
From: amvilppu

5a. Re: soybean question
From: Sandee Lee

6a. Our first day! Yay!
From: mmc2315
6b. Re: Our first day! Yay!
From: Andrea
6c. Re: meal size for 10# dog (was: Our first day! Yay!
From: Laurie Swanson
6d. Re: meal size for 10# dog (was: Our first day! Yay!
From: mmc2315
6e. Re: Our first day! Yay!
From: Lauren

7a. Puppy is still throwing up
From: akhwbj1
7b. Re: Puppy is still throwing up
From: Howard Salob
7c. Re: Puppy is still throwing up
From: Denise and David Spotila
7d. Re: Puppy is still throwing up
From: Laurie Swanson

8a. bad gas.
From: hanson_jenlynn
8b. Re: bad gas.
From: Yasuko herron

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Introduction(s)
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 7:47 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Laura Wimpey <laura.wimpey@...>
wrote:
> I want to absorb everything I can about raw diets. I'll ask lots
of annoyingly simple questions but I know you'll all be a great help.

Hi Laura,
Nice to meet you and your family. The only way i'll be annoyed is if
you DON'T ask questions.<G> Seriously, with all the writing that goes
on here there is lots to read and absorb. When you need us, we are
just a click of the send message button away. KathyM

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Introduction(s)
Posted by: "Laura Wimpey" laura.wimpey@yahoo.com laura.wimpey
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 7:53 am ((PDT))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.

>"Around here we just refer to a raw diet as a species appropriate
diet, prey model diet, or just a raw diet. Originally BARF meant
ground meat and bones with veggies, grains, supplements, and more
bones"

Ah, thanks for the tactful reproach and lesson. I've already heard the same from others. Let me clarify I'm not researching BARF but a prey model approach - just a misspeak.

Thanks all.

Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:
Welcome to the group, you'll learn a lot here.

> I'm ready to wisen up and switch to BARF.

Around here we just refer to a raw diet as a species appropriate
diet, prey model diet, or just a raw diet. Originally BARF meant
ground meat and bones with veggies, grains, supplements, and more
bones. I think it has morphed a bit to try and cover all aspects of
raw feeding, but it still holds a negative connotation for lots of us
here.

You want an easy healthy way to feed your pet carnivores without the
extra expense, time, and confusion associated with a barf diet. You
want just good old raw foods.

I don't know if you joined the rawcat list as well as this one, but
it is a great resource for switching cats to a raw diet. They can be
somewhat trickier than dogs are.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

Have fun reading up and ask questions when you have them!

Andrea

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Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. More Happy Tails
Posted by: "krystal_brr" rkbarr@hughes.net krystal_brr
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 8:42 am ((PDT))

Hi All,

I enjoyed the other happy tail so much I wanted to add my own:-)

My ridgebacks have been loving the raw food. Yesterday my husband
came home with an antelope and while we were butchering it, my 65#
female took off with the bottom half of a back leg, unbeknownst to
us. Well, when we were done I finally realized what had happened and
I went looking for her (we have 10 acres). When I found her and the
leg, she had eaten off all the hide and the hoof and was gnawing away
on the bone. I kind of paniced because of what has been said by some
of you about leg bones, plus I was worried about what to expect when
all that hide and hoof hit the digestive system of a dog who had
never had it before. I almost ran to my computer to email you all,
but then I thought "well, there is nothing to do about it but wait
and see", so I just waited and lo and behold this morning she had all
her normal movement. Whew! I was really expecting the worse.

So, thank you all for all the help and I am learning so much reading
all the posts. My dogs are happy and so am I. They loved the
slivers of antelope that they got, and are anxiously awaiting the big
chunks:-)

Krystal

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: More Happy Tails
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 9:21 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "krystal_brr" <rkbarr@...> wrote:
> My dogs are happy and so am I. They loved the
> slivers of antelope that they got, and are anxiously awaiting the big
> chunks:-)

Hi Krystal,
Deer bow and arrow season has started in ILL, and my dogs just got
their first deer meat of the season. I totally know how you feel. As
i was watching my dogs eat, i got this all warm and fuzzy feeling
about how good life is. Judging from the appearance of my dogs, they
were awfully happy, too. I just wish ALL dogs could eat a prey model
diet. I am so thankful that our dogs are raw fed and happy. KathyM

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

1e. Re: More Happy Tails
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 10:11 am ((PDT))

And that is such a great feeling!! Until Christmas we'll have lots of
venison, and my girl loves it. And I love feeding it to her.

Jennifer with Mandy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
>
As
> i was watching my dogs eat, i got this all warm and fuzzy feeling
> about how good life is.

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

1f. Re: Introduction(s)
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 11:50 am ((PDT))

Hi Laura,

I'm new too, and learning a lot.

I found the link below to be very helpful, as a beginner. For me, it explained things simply,
and I like the myth busting page too.

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

I didn't know there was a difference between BARF and RPM until I stumbled upon this list.
Glad I did! :)

Michelle

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: So....Deer Not Going Over Well...
Posted by: "Donna" donnad2998@yahoo.com donnad2998
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 8:09 am ((PDT))

Try freezing it first. Thats how I have to feed KC (GD) her deer.
She likes it frozen and I also mix it with Chicken. I purchased a
dehydrator ( SP) and dry the deer meat in strips for treats and they
love it. Good Luck.
Donna

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "helpshelteranimals"
<helpshelteranimals@...> wrote:
>
> So my wonderful score from the game processing place is not going
over
> big. Ruffian ate a couple of pieces of hide w/ meat and a little
hair
> still attached but he isn't touching the spine. He won't even try
it.
> Day two he didn't even want the meat from the deer.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> AG & Ruffian (Mystery Mutt)
>

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: So....Deer Not Going Over Well...
Posted by: "helpshelteranimals" helpshelteranimals@yahoo.com helpshelteranimals
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 10:11 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Donna" <donnad2998@...> wrote:
>
> Try freezing it first. Thats how I have to feed KC (GD) her deer.
> She likes it frozen ...Good Luck.
> Donna
***********

Thanks Miss Donna! I'll try giving him a frozen piece tonight and see
if he likes it any better.

AG & Ruffian (Fresh Deer Hold Out)

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Eggs and Puppies
Posted by: "joanpmail" joanpmail@yahoo.com joanpmail
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 10:10 am ((PDT))

My Tibetan Spaniel loves chicken eggs. Is there a limit to how many
she should get in a week? She is 11 weeks old/5.5 lbs.

Thanks,

Joan in IL

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Eggs and Puppies
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 11:04 am ((PDT))

"She is 11 weeks old/5.5 lbs."

You can feed raw eggs to their bowel tolerance. My puppies got daily eggs
since 5 weeks old; of course at 11 weeks they probably weighed 20lbs or
more. So start off slow, if the stools get loose then you know where the
tolerance is.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
Posted by: "Dawn Crosier" dlcrosier@sbcglobal.net dlc110161
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 11:49 am ((PDT))

My husband was appalled at the idea that the regular treats we had around
the house were being thrown out. He loves to give into our Westie Geanie's
begging for something. So as a compromise, we keep boiled eggs in the
fridge. Kevin can then peel and cut up an egg and let Geanie dance for her
treat. Sometimes she will get as many as two eggs in a day. She loves them,
and never had any problems with her bowels. I keep an eye on the quantity
she gets and will adjust her RMB as appropriate.

Hope that helps!

Dawn

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Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 5:59 pm ((PDT))

>So as a compromise, we keep boiled eggs in the fridge.

Are you feeding fully cooked Egg and raw Egg?? or only cooked Egg?

Egg we mean here is raw Egg...

yassy

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Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
Posted by: "amvilppu" amvilppu@hotmail.com amvilppu
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 6:41 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> >So as a compromise, we keep boiled eggs in the fridge.
>
> Are you feeding fully cooked Egg and raw Egg?? or only cooked Egg?
>
> Egg we mean here is raw Egg...
>
> yassy
>

That was a red flag for me too! From what I have read in former postings here, cooked egg is
supposed to be a big allergen trigger and very different than a raw egg. Some more
knowledgeable posters can perhaps shed more light on this.

Annaliisa, Drew, and Boxer pup Laila

Messages in this topic (7)
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________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: soybean question
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 12:11 pm ((PDT))

For anyone who is questioning why soy is not fit for man or beast <g>, I
found some interesting messages in the archives.....
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/38989

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Casey Post" <mikken@neo.rr.com>
>
> Um, I can't answer this one objectively...I'm in the "soy is evil" camp...

Messages in this topic (8)
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________________________________________________________________________

6a. Our first day! Yay!
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 1:44 pm ((PDT))

The kids and I walked down to the butcher's today and bought some chicken quarters.

I cut some of the fat/skin off since it was his first time eating raw. He did great! <g>

Our dog is a little 10# Cairn terrier mix we got from the shelter ~ middle of October.

He ate every last morsel of the chicken quarter. I don't want to be a newbie obsessing
over portion size, but it sure seemed like a lot of food for such a little dog.

From reading the archives/links, I know we are shooting for about 2-3% of ideal adult
body weight. I also know that portion sizes "bigger than their head" are good to avoid
small pieces/gulping/choking.

I suppose I could cut up the chicken quarter and not feed the whole thing in one day. Or
do a breast with bone in?

Any tips/encouragement welcome. We're so excited!

And according the butcher, we're not the only ones in town feeding raw. ;)

Michelle

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Our first day! Yay!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))

Good for you! I'm glad your pup was so excited about the food. It's
possible he will end up with some loose stools after eating a whole
chicken quarter, but that isn't a big deal if you are expecting it.
For future meals you can give him a whole chicken quarter and then just
take it away when he's eaten enough (about half?). IMO, it is much
easier to do that than cut up the quarter and risk a gulping incident.
Glad everything went well, keep us updated.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mmc2315" <m.chelap@...> wrote:

> He ate every last morsel of the chicken quarter. I don't want to
> be a newbie obsessing over portion size, but it sure seemed like a
> lot of food for such a little dog.

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: meal size for 10# dog (was: Our first day! Yay!
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 2:22 pm ((PDT))

Hi Michelle,

Is your dog a puppy, or full-grown? If he's full-grown, and the
quarter was around 1#, then that's probably about 3 days' worth of
food. If he's going to get bigger, then it's not quite as much.
Smaller dogs usually need a higher percentage of food per body weight
(more like 3%), but just watch your dog's weight and adjust as
needed.

You could feed the whole quarter, and then not feed again (or feed a
small snack) the next day or two (this usually needs to be worked up
to, so their systems can get used to digesting that much food at
once). You could feed part of the quarter and feed the remainder at
the next meal. You could feed smaller, like a drumstick for one meal
and a boneless meal the next (drumsticks on end would eventually be
too much bone)... Unless he gets bigger and/or is a gulper, then a
drumstick might be on the small side (poss. choking hazard for bigger
dogs, but would probably be fine for yours).

Laurie

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6d. Re: meal size for 10# dog (was: Our first day! Yay!
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 3:45 pm ((PDT))

"Laurie Swanson" wrote:

> Is your dog a puppy, or full-grown?

Hi Laurie, he's full grown. Yes, it was a lot of food!

Thanks for the tips,

Michelle

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

6e. Re: Our first day! Yay!
Posted by: "Lauren" lfunaiol@yahoo.com lfunaiol
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 3:53 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mmc2315" <m.chelap@...> wrote:
>
> Our dog is a little 10# Cairn terrier mix we got from the shelter ~
middle of October.
>
> He ate every last morsel of the chicken quarter. I don't want to be
a newbie obsessing
> over portion size, but it sure seemed like a lot of food for such a
little dog.

Hi Michelle,

That is a lot of food if he is a 10 pound adult dog. My 20 pound
border terrier mix eats about 8 ounces of food a day. Most leg
quarters weigh about a pound. I usually buy whole chickens and cut
them up for my 4 dogs. The terrier gets 8 ounces of whatever piece I
cut off for her. She doesn't gulp and does just fine with drumsticks,
wings with a piece of breast attached, thighs, or neck and giblets.
If your dog doesn't gulp his food, it's not really a problem to feed
something closer to his appropriate amount for the day.

Lauren Funaiole

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Puppy is still throwing up
Posted by: "akhwbj1" akhwbj1@yahoo.com akhwbj1
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT))

++++Mod note: please ensure all emails are signed. ++++++

We have a 3 month old boston terrier who was throwing up every time he
ate dog food, so we changed him to RAW. He has been on raw now for 2
weeks and he is still throwing up almost every time he eats. Is there
something we can do to help him?

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Puppy is still throwing up
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 3:45 pm ((PDT))

Dear akhwbji,

Time to get him to a vet. Losing electrolytes- being dehydrated and kibble food might have been tainted- happened to my dog(switched her to raw). Get blood panel and urine panel done. Raw food should not hurt him- sounds like something pre-existing.

Sincerely,

Howard

akhwbj1 <akhwbj1@yahoo.com> wrote:
++++Mod note: please ensure all emails are signed. ++++++

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Messages in this topic (4)
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7c. Re: Puppy is still throwing up
Posted by: "Denise and David Spotila" brookside_casa@yahoo.com brookside_casa
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 3:52 pm ((PDT))

I know of a Boston who was throwing up every time it ate. In this case it was caused by eating to quickly and taking in to much air with the food. Are you feeding large? Maybe feeding very large pieces of food, double pups head size, would help to slow the puppy down. Instead of chicken parts feed the whole bird and take it away when you think the pup has had enough.

David and Denise Spotila

Brookside Casa
Standard Poodles
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Messages in this topic (4)
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7d. Re: Puppy is still throwing up
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 3:52 pm ((PDT))

Poor little guy! How many times a day are you feeding? What exactly
are you feeding now? Does he have any other health issues/symptoms?
Are there certain meals that seem to stay down better? Does he throw
up his food immediately? Have you tried giving his system a break and
not feeding for a meal or two (maybe even a full day, and then re-
introducing food in small amounts and building back up to regular
meals)? Not that the vet would necessarily have an answer or any help,
but have you been?

Laurie

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. bad gas.
Posted by: "hanson_jenlynn" hanson_jenlynn@yahoo.com hanson_jenlynn
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 4:57 pm ((PDT))

my little pittie has been eating raw for a full month now! i'm
completely loving it and so is she. before we changed over to raw she
used to have terrible smelly gas every day. the gas stopped entirely
until three days ago. i'm unsure what has caused it and am wondering
what i should do to stop it. this past month all her diet has consisted
of was mostly chicken thighs, a little beef liver, a couple of pork
ribs and some beef ribs. also she has had her eggs and fish oil
caplets. she had beef ribs for dinner the night the gas came back. i
was really hoping this stinky problem wouldn't return. thanks in
advance for all the help
~jen&valkyrie

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: bad gas.
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

Hi.my dog used to fart more when shewas on kibble and after switching to raw,I smell rare. Occasionary,she does fart but much less.

I am thinking fattier cuts of meat gives my dog gas but not all the time.

I think that as time passes by,your dog would digest food much better than now and I think gas will be very rare,and occasional gas.

I do not mind my dog fart at all. she seems so self-concerned and she go to bathroom to fart and come back dragging the smell to us.Not as bad..

She is very lady-like:-P

yassy

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12230

There is 1 message in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Introduction(s)
From: Andrea

Message
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Introduction(s)
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 6:46 am ((PDT))

Welcome to the group, you'll learn a lot here.

> I'm ready to wisen up and switch to BARF.

You want an easy healthy way to feed your pet carnivores without the
extra expense, time, and confusion associated with a barf diet. You
want just good old raw foods.

Have fun reading up and ask questions when you have them!

Andrea

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12229

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Happy tails :)
From: Giselle

2a. Re: Feeding whole prey in close quarters???
From: Laurie Swanson
2b. Re: Feeding whole prey in close quarters???
From: carnesbill
2c. Re: Feeding whole prey in close quarters???
From: connie
2d. Re: Feeding whole prey in close quarters???
From: miensasis
2e. Re: Feeding whole prey in close quarters???
From: miensasis

3a. Left some goat out, is it still good?
From: Maria
3b. Re: Left some goat out, is it still good?
From: Laurie Swanson
3c. Re: Left some goat out, is it still good?
From: costrowski75
3d. Re: Left some goat out, is it still good?
From: carnesbill
3e. Re: Left some goat out, is it still good?
From: Maria
3f. Re: Left some goat out, is it still good?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

4a. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refus
From: Giselle

5.1. Re: New to Raw Feeding
From: girlndocs

6a. soybean question
From: Kim
6b. Re: soybean question
From: Casey Post
6c. Re: soybean question
From: carnesbill
6d. Re: soybean question
From: Sandee Lee
6e. Re: soybean question
From: merril Woolf
6f. Re: soybean question
From: costrowski75
6g. Re: soybean question
From: ginny wilken

7a. Re: still swallowing whole
From: connie

8. Introduction(s)
From: Laura Wimpey

9a. What's the word on peanut butter?
From: marlena_adema
9b. Re: What's the word on peanut butter?
From: Andrea

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Happy tails :)
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 5:49 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Dee!
YaY for you! And Yay for your open minded family!

Keep us updated on your progress.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 11/1/07, D. Rajska <d.rajska@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I think so often many of us newbies tend to write to the list only
> when we're stressed out or have a million questions, and I just wanted
> to email with a great feel-good story instead.
>

Well, success is happening a lot faster than I had hoped! I had spoken to my
> sister about my plans to feed raw, and mentioned why and how.
>

Well, after a week of seared ribs, she has ventured to turkey, and
> yesterday... she
> finally made the switch, to feeding fully raw, a hunk of lamb!!!
> HOORAY!!! In the meantime, Luna has become calmer, happier, and my sis
> has felt reconnected with her dog, not just because her behaviour has
> improved, but also, because she just feels so much more like a
> nurturer to her now that she is concsiously making choices to offer
> varied, healthy, nourishing food every day.
>

<snip>
> Next episode - Luna tries chicken livers for dessert, this coming
> Saturday. Stay tuned :)
>
> So... Thanks guys. Thanks for all the support and help you have given
> me - my niece loves you for it.
>
> And more good news - last weekend, my sister went to visit my parents,
> and now they're supplementing their Rottweiler puppy's diet with raw
> bones... And eggs from my prents' chickens. They aren't full-out
> switching yet, but this is much more than I had expected at this point
> in time. Stay tuned...
>
> Dee
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Feeding whole prey in close quarters???
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 5:56 pm ((PDT))

Hi Nancy,

I have a Boston Terrier and he eats on a towel in the living room in
my small apt. (no yard--large deck, but we have so much cold weather,
I don't make him eat outside). He's very good about keeping his food
on the towel. To train him, I just put his food back on the towel if
he took it off and he figured it out pretty quickly. If I'm feeding
something bigger like a goat leg, I'll put down extra towels to make
his eating space bigger or else it will end up edging onto the carpet
(he moves his food around a bit, turns it over, etc.). I've fed
whole rabbit with no mess (I'm not sure if the organs were inside,
though.). Keep feeding in your kitchen if it's big enough, or put
something down in another room. Some people use washable, vinyl
tablecloths or shower curtains--something like that would be good if
you really want to make sure there's never a speck of anything on
your carpet. I haven't found there to be blood pouring out of
carcasses or body parts or anything, though. :-) If there's excess
blood when I thaw something, I'll usually pour that in a bowl and
feed it.

Does that help?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:
> The problem I have is this...I
> live in a townhome and do not have a yard. Thus far I've been
> feeding large parts of grocery cuts in my kitchen, but I'd like to
> move as much in the direction of an in-tact prey model as my living
> arrangements will support. For us feeding a whole deer carcass is
> not possible, but is there anyone that feeds smaller whole animals
> (like rabbits) inside their homes? Exactly how messy (i.e. bloody)
> is it?

Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: Feeding whole prey in close quarters???
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 7:54 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "miensasis" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:
>
> is there anyone that feeds smaller whole animals
> (like rabbits) inside their homes? Exactly how messy
> (i.e. bloody) is it?

I have bought skinless whole rabbits for my dogs and feed them
outside. However ... About a year ago my 2 cats drug a rabbit to
the bathroom and prceeded to kill it by beating it against the
wall. :) :) :)

Then they ate it, a freshly killed rabbit still warm. I left them
alone and checked back about an hour later and they were still
eating it. After another hour I checked in the bathroom and found a
small pile of intestines and stomach and a very small clump of fur
and absolutely nothing else. No mess except for a little blood on
the wall where they were throwing it against the wall to kill it.

Weird huh?

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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2c. Re: Feeding whole prey in close quarters???
Posted by: "connie" justbullies@hotmail.com bullienut
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 8:50 pm ((PDT))

However ... About a year ago my 2 cats drug a rabbit to
> the bathroom and prceeded to kill it by beating it against the
> wall. :) :) :)
> Weird huh?
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>
> Feeding Raw since October 2002
>
> "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
> Dr. Tom Lonsdale
>
Ya know...I absolutley had the most hilarious vision of 2 cats
holding a rabbit up in the bathroom...lol...and smackin his head on
the wall...am I sick or what?...lol...

It was for a great laugh tho...thanks!
~connie~
and a bunch of bulldogs
www.justbullies.com

Messages in this topic (6)
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2d. Re: Feeding whole prey in close quarters???
Posted by: "miensasis" kpmnlm@patmedia.net miensasis
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 10:04 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...> wrote:
>
Keep feeding in your kitchen if it's big enough, or put
> something down in another room. Some people use washable, vinyl
> tablecloths or shower curtains--something like that would be good if
> you really want to make sure there's never a speck of anything on
> your carpet. >
> Does that help?

Laurie...

YES, that helps a great deal!

Nancy

Messages in this topic (6)
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2e. Re: Feeding whole prey in close quarters???
Posted by: "miensasis" kpmnlm@patmedia.net miensasis
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 10:05 pm ((PDT))

Bill...

OMG...way weird, although very natural I guess! I am still adjusting
to this whole raw thing. Intellectually I get it and believe it is
the best thing for my little carnivores; BUT there is still that
little part of me that freaks out when I hear my dogs crunching on
bones, or thinks about them ripping and tearing apart a rabbit in the
middle of my kitchen (or in your case--bathroom). I'm not letting
that stop me though--I'm going to push through the weirdness...LOL.

Nancy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
>About a year ago my 2 cats drug a rabbit to the bathroom and
>prceeded to kill it by beating it against the wall. :) :) :)
>
> Then they ate it, a freshly killed rabbit still warm. I left them
> alone and checked back about an hour later and they were still
> eating it. After another hour I checked in the bathroom and found
> a small pile of intestines and stomach and a very small clump of
> fur and absolutely nothing else. No mess except for a little blood
> on the wall where they were throwing it against the wall to kill it.

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Left some goat out, is it still good?
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 5:56 pm ((PDT))

Wendesday (around 12PM) I fed the dogs some goat, I had to hack it up
first. It was frozen at the time, my father told me that I left a goat
leg in the basement so it stayed there till about 7:00 Thursday night
when I put it back it the freezer. The basement isn't heated but stays
at around 70 degrees and there aren't any flies or anything. Should it
still be OK?

Thanks!
Maria

Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: Left some goat out, is it still good?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 6:46 pm ((PDT))

I would feed it unless it smells bad, and many people would feed it
even if it stinks.

Laurie

Messages in this topic (6)
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3c. Re: Left some goat out, is it still good?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 7:34 pm ((PDT))

"Maria" <plava_93@...> wrote:

> Wendesday (around 12PM) I fed the dogs some goat, I had to hack it
up
> first. It was frozen at the time, my father told me that I left a
goat
> leg in the basement so it stayed there till about 7:00 Thursday
night
> when I put it back it the freezer.
*****
I doubt this is even close to being close to being an issue. I have
done worse, intentionally. No problema.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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3d. Re: Left some goat out, is it still good?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 8:16 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...> wrote:
>
> I would feed it unless it smells bad, and many people would feed it
> even if it stinks.

Hehe ... I fed some stuff (not exactly sure what) the other night that
it took a whole can of spray and a fan blowing out the kitchen window
for two hours to clean out the smell. :) :) :) No ill effects at
all. Wife pitched a double dog dying duck fit. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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3e. Re: Left some goat out, is it still good?
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 8:49 pm ((PDT))

Thanks everybody!! I've only thawed meat over night, I didn't know what
would happen after orver 30 hours out of the fridge or freezer. I have
fed spoild meat (super stinky, room clearing chicken and pork) but it
was in the fridge the whole time. I'm glad to know it's OK. It is a
nice 2 lb hunk that I really wouldn't want to trash.

Maria

Messages in this topic (6)
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3f. Re: Left some goat out, is it still good?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 1:40 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 11/1/2007 4:56:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
plava_93@yahoo.com writes:

The basement isn't heated but stays
at around 70 degrees and there aren't any flies or anything. Should it
still be OK?

Maria,

even if there were flies or the basement was warmer than 70 degrees it would
still be good, even for humans, but most certainly for dogs.. Dogs eat far
worse than slightly tainted meat all the time with no ill effects.

Dogs drink out of toilets, they lick each other's behinds, they eat the poop
of every animal they come across.. meat that isn't kept below 40 degrees isn't
going to hurt them and probably won't hurt you either as long as it doesn't
stink.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refus
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 6:11 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Marguerita!
The next logical steps in adapting a dog to eating whole
prey after feeding whole-but-skinned, would be to offer skinned-but-with-the
skin-still-attached, and then partly-skinned - maybe with the skin left on
the head, tail and feet, in either order.

Just like larger bones that are more difficult to consume, I can see that
some dogs might not feel the need to consume skin and fur, apart from the
strangeness and unfamiliarity of it. Fur provides bulk to the stool, needed
or not, maybe it would slow down digestion somewhat. And skin surely has
some nutrition to offer, even if the same nutrients can be obtained from
other body parts.

Hmm, I looked up raw pig ears, which has not only skin but gristle, but
virtually no meatymeat and it seems to be pretty high in protein and fat,
relatively low in water. Seems nutritious to me.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl

TC
Giselle

<snip>
>
>
> ****** Usually the organs have been pulled and then put back
> in....you know the way chickens are at the grocery store, but still
> whole for the most part.
>
> I don't really have any objections to him not eating fur since as you
> said it doesn't serve nutritional purpose. However, it is
> frustrating to occasionally have the "find" of something whole and
> NOT from a grocery store and then not be able to take someone up on
> it. Clearly what I see as a nutritional treasure that is as fresh as
> you can get is not seen as the treasure by my dog.
>
> Marguerita
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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5.1. Re: New to Raw Feeding
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 6:46 pm ((PDT))

Hi Jennifer,

I once spent two days standing in front of my sink, flinging gobs of
raw chicken over my shoulder and saying "oops!" while I pretended not
to notice Zoe eating them.

*fling* "oops!" *splat* *snarf*
*fling* "oops!" *splat* *snarf*
*fling* "oops!" *splat* *snarf*

I'm kinda glad my neighbors can't see in my kitchen window ...

Kristin

>I picked up the plate, got out some good
> sharp scissors, and proceeded to cut it into chunks on the counter, as
> if I was making food for me and hubby. She was mesmerized! I grabbed
> a small chunk and said "Well, Ok...but only one for you" as I gave it
> to her.....GULP.

Messages in this topic (62)
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6a. soybean question
Posted by: "Kim" khkern@yahoo.com khkern
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 7:36 pm ((PDT))

Hi guys,
I know that as a carnivore my dog doesn't need veggies, but will a few
steamed soybeans as a snack or treat hurt the dog? I often eat
soybeans (Edamame)and the dogs love a few as a snack. I know the dog
doesn't get anything nutritionally from them, but is it ok to let him
have a few occasionally?

Thanks,
Kim Gardner

Messages in this topic (7)
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6b. Re: soybean question
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 8:10 pm ((PDT))

> I often eat
> soybeans (Edamame)and the dogs love a few as a snack. I know the dog
> doesn't get anything nutritionally from them, but is it ok to let him
> have a few occasionally?

Um, I can't answer this one objectively...I'm in the "soy is evil" camp...

Casey

Messages in this topic (7)
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6c. Re: soybean question
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 8:17 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" <khkern@...> wrote:
>
> I know the dog
> doesn't get anything nutritionally from them, but is it ok to
> let him have a few occasionally?
>
Sure, go for it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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6d. Re: soybean question
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 8:23 pm ((PDT))

Soy as a treat or snack probably isn't harmful to either of you....more than
that, I would be concerned for both of you! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Kim" <khkern@yahoo.com>

I know that as a carnivore my dog doesn't need veggies, but will a few
steamed soybeans as a snack or treat hurt the dog? I often eat
soybeans (Edamame)and the dogs love a few as a snack. I know the dog
doesn't get anything nutritionally from them, but is it ok to let him
have a few occasionally?

Messages in this topic (7)
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6e. Re: soybean question
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 10:04 pm ((PDT))

>
> Um, I can't answer this one objectively...I'm in the "soy is evil" camp...
>
> Casey

Me too.
I lecture my friends if they even think about eating or drinking anything with soy in it.

I can't imagine feeding it to my dogs....even as a treat. It's an evil food...

I have my fingers in my ears and I refuse to think about this anymore. ;-)))

Merril

Messages in this topic (7)
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6f. Re: soybean question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 10:10 pm ((PDT))

"Casey Post" <mikken@...> wrote:
> Um, I can't answer this one objectively...I'm in the "soy is evil"
camp...
>
*****
Um, yeah, me too. Soy in any form is not what I want to put into my
dogs.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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6g. Re: soybean question
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 11:43 pm ((PDT))

On Nov 1, 2007, at 9:14 PM, Casey Post wrote

Um, I can't answer this one objectively...I'm in the "soy is evil"
camp...
>
> Casey

Me, too, but I think I'm being perfectly objective:)

ginny

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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7a. Re: still swallowing whole
Posted by: "connie" justbullies@hotmail.com bullienut
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 8:17 pm ((PDT))

> Please tell me what exactly should I give her for dinner?
She won't
> self-regulate. Maybe large chunk of beef/pork ribs? Goat leg? She
> will tackle these with gusto. Big pieces one day then on the next day
> a piece of kidney with gizzard? I'm lost.
>
> Silvina

Hi Silvina,
I have english and mini bulldogs. Everyone of them eats differently. I
don`t always give big meaty bones to eat. They get quartered chicken
about 3-4 days a week. The other meats I get like beef tongue I
realized my dogs cannot tear it up because the front top teeth are so
far pushed in and when I examined inside their mouths...whoa...they
have a mess of bunched up teeth..everyone of them has their own unique
mass display all shoved into the back of their mouths. I give them
irregular pieces of beef and pork...but not so big they choke. I also
cut off all solid chunks of fat..ie:beef brisket,lamb and pork ribs.
But I make up for it with a beef rib for desert. They have no problem
with chicken and rabbit bones. But Henry I have to give 1/2 chicken
instead of a quarter...he`s a gulper. I just examined my dogs teeth the
other day again and they all have very nice white healthy teeth. I also
purchase the bully sticks(all natural) to make up for any meat tearing.
The redmeat is the toughest for my bulldogs..the rest is fine.
If you have any other questions on the snub nosed breeds you can
contact me off line also.
~connie~
and a bunch of bulldogs.
www.justbullies.com

Messages in this topic (19)
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8. Introduction(s)
Posted by: "Laura Wimpey" laura.wimpey@yahoo.com laura.wimpey
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 6:24 am ((PDT))

Hello all,

This'll be a long introduction, I'll go ahead and say that.

I just joined the list this week and here's why: I've got four fur babies; two cats and two dogs. They are all on a blue buffalo ki**le (as I've seen it typed here) diet. I'm ready to wisen up and switch to BARF. I load them up with acidophilus and omega-3's and I whine and moan about the evils of dry foods but I've never done anything about it. Shame on me. But it's not too late! Here's a breakdown of the kritturs:

Elias (Eli): 3 year old rescue mix of something that looks like a labradoodle, 55 lbs, all white with peanut butter colored freckles on his ears and one coffee mug-sized peanut butter spot on his back. Weird eh. Anyway, he's got the temperment of a golden retriver and the energy level of a sloth until we get to the forest or Cool School for Dogs, raw diet will work wonders for allergies which aren't currently bad but could be
Maggie: 1+ year old tri-colored English Setter (field type, Llewellin, kinda smalllish for a setter) 31 lbs, energy and intensity of a t-rex, body of a gazelle, raw diet would do wonders for her, sweet but shy
Chloe: Domestic longhair resuce cat, 7 years old, just a plain old witch but we love her
Hyde: Domestic rescue flame point siamese, 3 years, a lot like maggie in temperment, sleeps on your head at night until you get upset and push him off at which point he'll pad around the house for 3 minutes making strange noises of protest and then he'll return to perch on your head again, cooing softly with purrs and starting the process all over again.

Me & Hubby: Laura & Caleb, I'm the driving force behind seeking a raw diet but Caleb supports wholeheartedly, love our family but no kids of our own, only married 4 years, just moved to East TN from Asheville, NC.

I want to absorb everything I can about raw diets. I'll ask lots of annoyingly simple questions but I know you'll all be a great help.

Regards,

Laura Wimpey

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. What's the word on peanut butter?
Posted by: "marlena_adema" marlena_adema@yahoo.ca marlena_adema
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 6:33 am ((PDT))

I stuff about 1 tablespoon of natural peanut butter in my dog's Kong
to get her into her kennel each night. She just loves it! But I'm
wondering what is the general consensus on pb - is it okay?

BTW, I have also stuffed ground chicken and froze it, as per
suggestions I've read here. She loves that too, but pb has become her
night-time treat....

Marlena

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: What's the word on peanut butter?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 6:37 am ((PDT))

Peanut butter certainly isn't part of a species appropriate diet, but
not all treats have to be raw foods. As puppies my boys loved pb
stuffed kongs but they lost interest in them after a while.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "marlena_adema" <marlena_adema@...>
wrote:
>
> I stuff about 1 tablespoon of natural peanut butter in my dog's
> Kong to get her into her kennel each night. She just loves it!
> But I'm wondering what is the general consensus on pb - is it okay?

Messages in this topic (2)
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