[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12231

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Introduction(s)
From: katkellm
1b. Re: Introduction(s)
From: Laura Wimpey
1c. More Happy Tails
From: krystal_brr
1d. Re: More Happy Tails
From: katkellm
1e. Re: More Happy Tails
From: jennifer_hell
1f. Re: Introduction(s)
From: mmc2315

2a. Re: So....Deer Not Going Over Well...
From: Donna
2b. Re: So....Deer Not Going Over Well...
From: helpshelteranimals

3a. Eggs and Puppies
From: joanpmail
3b. Re: Eggs and Puppies
From: Tina Berry

4a. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
From: Dawn Crosier
4b. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
From: Yasuko herron
4c. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
From: amvilppu

5a. Re: soybean question
From: Sandee Lee

6a. Our first day! Yay!
From: mmc2315
6b. Re: Our first day! Yay!
From: Andrea
6c. Re: meal size for 10# dog (was: Our first day! Yay!
From: Laurie Swanson
6d. Re: meal size for 10# dog (was: Our first day! Yay!
From: mmc2315
6e. Re: Our first day! Yay!
From: Lauren

7a. Puppy is still throwing up
From: akhwbj1
7b. Re: Puppy is still throwing up
From: Howard Salob
7c. Re: Puppy is still throwing up
From: Denise and David Spotila
7d. Re: Puppy is still throwing up
From: Laurie Swanson

8a. bad gas.
From: hanson_jenlynn
8b. Re: bad gas.
From: Yasuko herron

Messages
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1a. Re: Introduction(s)
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 7:47 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Laura Wimpey <laura.wimpey@...>
wrote:
> I want to absorb everything I can about raw diets. I'll ask lots
of annoyingly simple questions but I know you'll all be a great help.

Hi Laura,
Nice to meet you and your family. The only way i'll be annoyed is if
you DON'T ask questions.<G> Seriously, with all the writing that goes
on here there is lots to read and absorb. When you need us, we are
just a click of the send message button away. KathyM

Messages in this topic (8)
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1b. Re: Introduction(s)
Posted by: "Laura Wimpey" laura.wimpey@yahoo.com laura.wimpey
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 7:53 am ((PDT))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.

>"Around here we just refer to a raw diet as a species appropriate
diet, prey model diet, or just a raw diet. Originally BARF meant
ground meat and bones with veggies, grains, supplements, and more
bones"

Ah, thanks for the tactful reproach and lesson. I've already heard the same from others. Let me clarify I'm not researching BARF but a prey model approach - just a misspeak.

Thanks all.

Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:
Welcome to the group, you'll learn a lot here.

> I'm ready to wisen up and switch to BARF.

Around here we just refer to a raw diet as a species appropriate
diet, prey model diet, or just a raw diet. Originally BARF meant
ground meat and bones with veggies, grains, supplements, and more
bones. I think it has morphed a bit to try and cover all aspects of
raw feeding, but it still holds a negative connotation for lots of us
here.

You want an easy healthy way to feed your pet carnivores without the
extra expense, time, and confusion associated with a barf diet. You
want just good old raw foods.

I don't know if you joined the rawcat list as well as this one, but
it is a great resource for switching cats to a raw diet. They can be
somewhat trickier than dogs are.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

Have fun reading up and ask questions when you have them!

Andrea

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Messages in this topic (8)
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1c. More Happy Tails
Posted by: "krystal_brr" rkbarr@hughes.net krystal_brr
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 8:42 am ((PDT))

Hi All,

I enjoyed the other happy tail so much I wanted to add my own:-)

My ridgebacks have been loving the raw food. Yesterday my husband
came home with an antelope and while we were butchering it, my 65#
female took off with the bottom half of a back leg, unbeknownst to
us. Well, when we were done I finally realized what had happened and
I went looking for her (we have 10 acres). When I found her and the
leg, she had eaten off all the hide and the hoof and was gnawing away
on the bone. I kind of paniced because of what has been said by some
of you about leg bones, plus I was worried about what to expect when
all that hide and hoof hit the digestive system of a dog who had
never had it before. I almost ran to my computer to email you all,
but then I thought "well, there is nothing to do about it but wait
and see", so I just waited and lo and behold this morning she had all
her normal movement. Whew! I was really expecting the worse.

So, thank you all for all the help and I am learning so much reading
all the posts. My dogs are happy and so am I. They loved the
slivers of antelope that they got, and are anxiously awaiting the big
chunks:-)

Krystal

Messages in this topic (8)
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1d. Re: More Happy Tails
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 9:21 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "krystal_brr" <rkbarr@...> wrote:
> My dogs are happy and so am I. They loved the
> slivers of antelope that they got, and are anxiously awaiting the big
> chunks:-)

Hi Krystal,
Deer bow and arrow season has started in ILL, and my dogs just got
their first deer meat of the season. I totally know how you feel. As
i was watching my dogs eat, i got this all warm and fuzzy feeling
about how good life is. Judging from the appearance of my dogs, they
were awfully happy, too. I just wish ALL dogs could eat a prey model
diet. I am so thankful that our dogs are raw fed and happy. KathyM

Messages in this topic (8)
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1e. Re: More Happy Tails
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 10:11 am ((PDT))

And that is such a great feeling!! Until Christmas we'll have lots of
venison, and my girl loves it. And I love feeding it to her.

Jennifer with Mandy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
>
As
> i was watching my dogs eat, i got this all warm and fuzzy feeling
> about how good life is.

Messages in this topic (8)
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1f. Re: Introduction(s)
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 11:50 am ((PDT))

Hi Laura,

I'm new too, and learning a lot.

I found the link below to be very helpful, as a beginner. For me, it explained things simply,
and I like the myth busting page too.

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

I didn't know there was a difference between BARF and RPM until I stumbled upon this list.
Glad I did! :)

Michelle

Messages in this topic (8)
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2a. Re: So....Deer Not Going Over Well...
Posted by: "Donna" donnad2998@yahoo.com donnad2998
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 8:09 am ((PDT))

Try freezing it first. Thats how I have to feed KC (GD) her deer.
She likes it frozen and I also mix it with Chicken. I purchased a
dehydrator ( SP) and dry the deer meat in strips for treats and they
love it. Good Luck.
Donna

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "helpshelteranimals"
<helpshelteranimals@...> wrote:
>
> So my wonderful score from the game processing place is not going
over
> big. Ruffian ate a couple of pieces of hide w/ meat and a little
hair
> still attached but he isn't touching the spine. He won't even try
it.
> Day two he didn't even want the meat from the deer.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> AG & Ruffian (Mystery Mutt)
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: So....Deer Not Going Over Well...
Posted by: "helpshelteranimals" helpshelteranimals@yahoo.com helpshelteranimals
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 10:11 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Donna" <donnad2998@...> wrote:
>
> Try freezing it first. Thats how I have to feed KC (GD) her deer.
> She likes it frozen ...Good Luck.
> Donna
***********

Thanks Miss Donna! I'll try giving him a frozen piece tonight and see
if he likes it any better.

AG & Ruffian (Fresh Deer Hold Out)

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Eggs and Puppies
Posted by: "joanpmail" joanpmail@yahoo.com joanpmail
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 10:10 am ((PDT))

My Tibetan Spaniel loves chicken eggs. Is there a limit to how many
she should get in a week? She is 11 weeks old/5.5 lbs.

Thanks,

Joan in IL

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Eggs and Puppies
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 11:04 am ((PDT))

"She is 11 weeks old/5.5 lbs."

You can feed raw eggs to their bowel tolerance. My puppies got daily eggs
since 5 weeks old; of course at 11 weeks they probably weighed 20lbs or
more. So start off slow, if the stools get loose then you know where the
tolerance is.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
Posted by: "Dawn Crosier" dlcrosier@sbcglobal.net dlc110161
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 11:49 am ((PDT))

My husband was appalled at the idea that the regular treats we had around
the house were being thrown out. He loves to give into our Westie Geanie's
begging for something. So as a compromise, we keep boiled eggs in the
fridge. Kevin can then peel and cut up an egg and let Geanie dance for her
treat. Sometimes she will get as many as two eggs in a day. She loves them,
and never had any problems with her bowels. I keep an eye on the quantity
she gets and will adjust her RMB as appropriate.

Hope that helps!

Dawn

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Messages in this topic (7)
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4b. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 5:59 pm ((PDT))

>So as a compromise, we keep boiled eggs in the fridge.

Are you feeding fully cooked Egg and raw Egg?? or only cooked Egg?

Egg we mean here is raw Egg...

yassy

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Messages in this topic (7)
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4c. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
Posted by: "amvilppu" amvilppu@hotmail.com amvilppu
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 6:41 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> >So as a compromise, we keep boiled eggs in the fridge.
>
> Are you feeding fully cooked Egg and raw Egg?? or only cooked Egg?
>
> Egg we mean here is raw Egg...
>
> yassy
>

That was a red flag for me too! From what I have read in former postings here, cooked egg is
supposed to be a big allergen trigger and very different than a raw egg. Some more
knowledgeable posters can perhaps shed more light on this.

Annaliisa, Drew, and Boxer pup Laila

Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. Re: soybean question
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 12:11 pm ((PDT))

For anyone who is questioning why soy is not fit for man or beast <g>, I
found some interesting messages in the archives.....
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/38989

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Casey Post" <mikken@neo.rr.com>
>
> Um, I can't answer this one objectively...I'm in the "soy is evil" camp...

Messages in this topic (8)
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6a. Our first day! Yay!
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 1:44 pm ((PDT))

The kids and I walked down to the butcher's today and bought some chicken quarters.

I cut some of the fat/skin off since it was his first time eating raw. He did great! <g>

Our dog is a little 10# Cairn terrier mix we got from the shelter ~ middle of October.

He ate every last morsel of the chicken quarter. I don't want to be a newbie obsessing
over portion size, but it sure seemed like a lot of food for such a little dog.

From reading the archives/links, I know we are shooting for about 2-3% of ideal adult
body weight. I also know that portion sizes "bigger than their head" are good to avoid
small pieces/gulping/choking.

I suppose I could cut up the chicken quarter and not feed the whole thing in one day. Or
do a breast with bone in?

Any tips/encouragement welcome. We're so excited!

And according the butcher, we're not the only ones in town feeding raw. ;)

Michelle

Messages in this topic (5)
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6b. Re: Our first day! Yay!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))

Good for you! I'm glad your pup was so excited about the food. It's
possible he will end up with some loose stools after eating a whole
chicken quarter, but that isn't a big deal if you are expecting it.
For future meals you can give him a whole chicken quarter and then just
take it away when he's eaten enough (about half?). IMO, it is much
easier to do that than cut up the quarter and risk a gulping incident.
Glad everything went well, keep us updated.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mmc2315" <m.chelap@...> wrote:

> He ate every last morsel of the chicken quarter. I don't want to
> be a newbie obsessing over portion size, but it sure seemed like a
> lot of food for such a little dog.

Messages in this topic (5)
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6c. Re: meal size for 10# dog (was: Our first day! Yay!
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 2:22 pm ((PDT))

Hi Michelle,

Is your dog a puppy, or full-grown? If he's full-grown, and the
quarter was around 1#, then that's probably about 3 days' worth of
food. If he's going to get bigger, then it's not quite as much.
Smaller dogs usually need a higher percentage of food per body weight
(more like 3%), but just watch your dog's weight and adjust as
needed.

You could feed the whole quarter, and then not feed again (or feed a
small snack) the next day or two (this usually needs to be worked up
to, so their systems can get used to digesting that much food at
once). You could feed part of the quarter and feed the remainder at
the next meal. You could feed smaller, like a drumstick for one meal
and a boneless meal the next (drumsticks on end would eventually be
too much bone)... Unless he gets bigger and/or is a gulper, then a
drumstick might be on the small side (poss. choking hazard for bigger
dogs, but would probably be fine for yours).

Laurie

Messages in this topic (5)
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6d. Re: meal size for 10# dog (was: Our first day! Yay!
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 3:45 pm ((PDT))

"Laurie Swanson" wrote:

> Is your dog a puppy, or full-grown?

Hi Laurie, he's full grown. Yes, it was a lot of food!

Thanks for the tips,

Michelle

Messages in this topic (5)
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6e. Re: Our first day! Yay!
Posted by: "Lauren" lfunaiol@yahoo.com lfunaiol
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 3:53 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mmc2315" <m.chelap@...> wrote:
>
> Our dog is a little 10# Cairn terrier mix we got from the shelter ~
middle of October.
>
> He ate every last morsel of the chicken quarter. I don't want to be
a newbie obsessing
> over portion size, but it sure seemed like a lot of food for such a
little dog.

Hi Michelle,

That is a lot of food if he is a 10 pound adult dog. My 20 pound
border terrier mix eats about 8 ounces of food a day. Most leg
quarters weigh about a pound. I usually buy whole chickens and cut
them up for my 4 dogs. The terrier gets 8 ounces of whatever piece I
cut off for her. She doesn't gulp and does just fine with drumsticks,
wings with a piece of breast attached, thighs, or neck and giblets.
If your dog doesn't gulp his food, it's not really a problem to feed
something closer to his appropriate amount for the day.

Lauren Funaiole

Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. Puppy is still throwing up
Posted by: "akhwbj1" akhwbj1@yahoo.com akhwbj1
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT))

++++Mod note: please ensure all emails are signed. ++++++

We have a 3 month old boston terrier who was throwing up every time he
ate dog food, so we changed him to RAW. He has been on raw now for 2
weeks and he is still throwing up almost every time he eats. Is there
something we can do to help him?

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: Puppy is still throwing up
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 3:45 pm ((PDT))

Dear akhwbji,

Time to get him to a vet. Losing electrolytes- being dehydrated and kibble food might have been tainted- happened to my dog(switched her to raw). Get blood panel and urine panel done. Raw food should not hurt him- sounds like something pre-existing.

Sincerely,

Howard

akhwbj1 <akhwbj1@yahoo.com> wrote:
++++Mod note: please ensure all emails are signed. ++++++

We have a 3 month old boston terrier who was throwing up every time he
ate dog food, so we changed him to RAW. He has been on raw now for 2
weeks and he is still throwing up almost every time he eats. Is there
something we can do to help him?

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7c. Re: Puppy is still throwing up
Posted by: "Denise and David Spotila" brookside_casa@yahoo.com brookside_casa
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 3:52 pm ((PDT))

I know of a Boston who was throwing up every time it ate. In this case it was caused by eating to quickly and taking in to much air with the food. Are you feeding large? Maybe feeding very large pieces of food, double pups head size, would help to slow the puppy down. Instead of chicken parts feed the whole bird and take it away when you think the pup has had enough.

David and Denise Spotila

Brookside Casa
Standard Poodles
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Messages in this topic (4)
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7d. Re: Puppy is still throwing up
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 3:52 pm ((PDT))

Poor little guy! How many times a day are you feeding? What exactly
are you feeding now? Does he have any other health issues/symptoms?
Are there certain meals that seem to stay down better? Does he throw
up his food immediately? Have you tried giving his system a break and
not feeding for a meal or two (maybe even a full day, and then re-
introducing food in small amounts and building back up to regular
meals)? Not that the vet would necessarily have an answer or any help,
but have you been?

Laurie

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. bad gas.
Posted by: "hanson_jenlynn" hanson_jenlynn@yahoo.com hanson_jenlynn
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 4:57 pm ((PDT))

my little pittie has been eating raw for a full month now! i'm
completely loving it and so is she. before we changed over to raw she
used to have terrible smelly gas every day. the gas stopped entirely
until three days ago. i'm unsure what has caused it and am wondering
what i should do to stop it. this past month all her diet has consisted
of was mostly chicken thighs, a little beef liver, a couple of pork
ribs and some beef ribs. also she has had her eggs and fish oil
caplets. she had beef ribs for dinner the night the gas came back. i
was really hoping this stinky problem wouldn't return. thanks in
advance for all the help
~jen&valkyrie

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: bad gas.
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

Hi.my dog used to fart more when shewas on kibble and after switching to raw,I smell rare. Occasionary,she does fart but much less.

I am thinking fattier cuts of meat gives my dog gas but not all the time.

I think that as time passes by,your dog would digest food much better than now and I think gas will be very rare,and occasional gas.

I do not mind my dog fart at all. she seems so self-concerned and she go to bathroom to fart and come back dragging the smell to us.Not as bad..

She is very lady-like:-P

yassy

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