[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12226

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
From: mgitaville
1b. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
From: carnesbill
1c. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
From: Yasuko herron
1d. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
From: Denise and David Spotila

2. {Raw Feeding} Lab Work II
From: Brandi Bryant

3a. Re: still swallowing whole
From: Morledzep@aol.com
3b. Re: still swallowing whole
From: delcaste
3c. Re: still swallowing whole
From: delcaste

4a. Re: video - my dog eating a furry rabbit
From: Brandi Bryant
4b. Re: video - my dog eating a furry rabbit
From: Deb
4c. Re: video - my dog eating a furry rabbit
From: chandler_baby
4d. Re: video - my dog eating a furry rabbit
From: Lisa S.
4e. Re: video - my dog eating a furry rabbit
From: Donald J. O'Neill

5a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Lab work
From: Sandee Lee
5b. Re: {Raw Feeding} Lab work
From: Brandi Bryant
5c. Re: {Raw Feeding} Lab work
From: carnesbill
5d. Re: {Raw Feeding} Lab work
From: costrowski75
5e. Re: {Raw Feeding} Lab work
From: Sandee Lee
5f. Re: {Raw Feeding} Lab work
From: costrowski75
5g. ADMIN/Re: {Raw Feeding} Lab work
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: Ready for Next Step/Question about lamb shanks
From: blue eyed

7a. rabbit
From: Cindy Morettin

8a. Re: Salmonella question
From: alexanderdewey

9a. Ground Food
From: mrsmenk
9b. Re: Ground Food
From: Sandee Lee

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:48 pm ((PDT))

So, the video with the dog eating the whole rabbitt got me
wondering.... for those dogs that did not start out as pups on raw or
at least whole food why is it some will take the whole prey while
others refuse? (by whole food I am referring to the whole bunny,
goat, deer, etc. with fur and all intact vs. the gutted, skinned,
animals many of us have access to).

I tried many months ago whole piglets killed prior to even being able
to nurse with my bullmastiff boys. Though the one I have had since a
pup has been known to be picky at times (his dislike for turkey is
well known and he won't eat fish if skin is still on), I had never
seen my rescue refuse something prior to the piglet. They both
looked at me nd each other like I was trying to poison them. After 4
full days of fasting (after putting it in front of them on the 5th
and still being refused I gave in) and quite the smell the poor
piglets were sent to the trash uneaten. The most I could get was a
lick or two where I gutted it for them.

So obviously dogs that are used to eating whole prey will eat it, but
does anyone else have dogs that refuse simply b/c fed easier cuts
without fur usually?

I don't get access to whole prey much so this is more a curiosity
question but please indulge me. What got others started? Do others
have dogs that after repeated attempts still would rather fast than
eat something with fur?

Any insight to this is appreciated.
Thanks
Marguerita

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mgitaville" <mgitaville@...> wrote:
>
> So, the video with the dog eating the whole rabbitt got me
> wondering.... for those dogs that did not start out as pups on raw
or
> at least whole food why is it some will take the whole prey while
> others refuse?

My theory is that if you give them a whole rabbit for example with fur
on they don't know what it is. It kinda answers the question "will my
dog kill other animals if they eat raw?". It's prey drive in
reverse. They don't realize this is actually prey.

My dogs had a hard time with whole skinned rabbits in the beginning.
they would carry it around, lick it, play with it, toss it in the air
and any kind of play they could come up with. Finally they figured it
all out and decided it was real food.

I suggest you try skinned animals before feeding with fur on. Cut
open the belly so you expose the organs. This will usually get them
started after a few minutes of play with it. Don't introduce skin on
until they are very used to skinned.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

>So obviously dogs that are used to eating whole prey will eat it, but
does anyone else have dogs that refuse simply b/c fed easier cuts
without fur usually?

Hi,Marguerita. I think that it is because dog daoes not know waht to do with it if you fed fur-less items all the time.

My dog started rawfeeding in May this year so,well,it been on it about 5 months.

First 2-3 months,I did not feed anything with fur but I concentrated on feeding variety of meat,bone,organ without any digestive upset if needed,I tried learning how to tweak the diet detail.

My dog still cannot take normal amount of Duck-only andLamb Tongue only andstill need to be combo meal on those 2 protins but shedoes pretty good on other things.

So,second round, I am trying to give bigger amount on one meal and smaller meal on the other and decided to give big big meal on once a month just for her to have more fun and getting used to bigger amount.

One of the time, I fed cow hooves,it is about 3lbs and size of hovves are about your palm and quite heavy and big.

It had I think cow ankle area?? and still fur around.

That was probably for her most wierdest thing she ever saw and,she was not sure how to tackle it. Of course this was not main meal but I fed normal meal and gave this for recreational purpose.

What do you think she did when she first saw it? She stalked around it andtried to nip it and herd it. Since it does not move (Of course),she was not sure and kept staring at me.

Time passes by about 15 min or so and,my husband told me "She would not like it,toss the stinky"

I said "Give her thetime and she will get it,I think she does not know waht to do with it"

And after some more minutes after she comes close andlick a bit and stare,I cut out the fur about 1 inch square andlet her eat it,and she did eat it and from that point on,she kept putting her nose on the patch that I cut out and tried to tackle it but still hard.So,I did little bit ribborning;I did not cut sking off but cut some so that she can get good grab of skin and fur and rip.

It went good.After that shespent 2 hours on it and enjoyed it.She did not finish it off everything so,I still have the leftover in freezer but, if you try ribborn theskin if dog had bit difficulty understanding,probably the dog gets it.

Funny thing is that,next day,she had this wierdest poo I have seen. Kind of like all fur plicked from the cow skin and only fur got round up and came out as poo.

Talking of big meal, her big meal is last day of each month I decided so, today will be big meal day.

I can tell sheis hungry because I hear her tummy gargling loud:-P

I will give her 5lb of goat leg(I will take it out when I think she ate enough meat to avoid mid night call for poo),and I give her bone from beef short rib that I used for today's meal for human (Ireland's style sheppherd pie).I took meat for human and left bone for her so that she can eat and I use it to trade leg with me.I know she can eat all rib bone of beef so,I giveitto her.I will still get leftover goat leg so,she get it again sometime later.

Goat meat meal make her nose so wet even before I put on mat and,I can imagine she will be so excited.

yassy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: Theories - Why some will eat Whole Foods & Others Refuse
Posted by: "Denise and David Spotila" brookside_casa@yahoo.com brookside_casa
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:18 pm ((PDT))

I do not have an answer but my poodles will not eat a bunny with fur or a bird with feathers or any hide covered meat. I have tried several times.......They will kill a chicken who happens to get into the dog yard, but never have they tried to eat it.

David and Denise Spotila

Brookside Casa
Standard Poodles
Great minds discuss ideas
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.
E Roosevelt

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2. {Raw Feeding} Lab Work II
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:24 pm ((PDT))

I know you guys worship Dr. Dodd but I'm telling you and I trust my vet 100%
and my gut tells me that Max is not hypothyroid - he's not fat. The
symptoms that goes along with Cushings disease fits him more. I didn't
think anything of it at the time but I'd come home from work and the trash
would be dumped over. That wasn't like him, and he started begging for
food, and drinking more, he has the pot belly look to him etc...also I was
doing some research on skin conditions on GS and I found an article with
pictures with a dog that had a yeast infection...Max looks like the dog from
that article. If I've run my course I will do a full blood work up for
hypothyroid and send it to CA to Dr. Dodd. I just want Max to get
better....

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: still swallowing whole
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:31 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/31/2007 3:04:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
delcaste@yahoo.com writes:

Maybe large chunk of beef/pork ribs? Goat leg? She
will tackle these with gusto. Big pieces one day then on the next day
a piece of kidney with gizzard? I'm lost.

Silvina,

from what i've gathered on this list, cause i've never lived with a pug, they
are gulpers extraordinaire. They need BIG food, even though they aren't big
dogs.

And the best way to feed a gulper is to force them not to gulp. Feed things
that are FAR bigger than their heads. And when you think they've had enough,
remove what is left, or when they are full and leave it alone. But at that
point it would probably be best to not feed them the next day.. or just to give
them a snack the next day. Depending of course on how much they eat.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: still swallowing whole
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:37 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:

> I suspect the six ounces of ribboned meat was too small a meal for
> her ambitions. And of course a ribbon of meat is precisely the
> right shape for mindless grabbing and gobbling. Since she's a
> competent eater, I recommend you do nothing to make meals easier
for
> her. Only the timid or unadventurous feeders need their meats
> ribboned.

Yup, she's a mindless, grabbing pig (sorry, still feeling the effects
of her "eating"). I thought she was doing so much better til the
choking episodeS...She is a competent eater I guess the lamb was so
soft and already coming apart that she aspirated the chunk. That's
how she eats, she aspirates.
>
> I > thougtht I had lost her. I kept doing the Heimlich and was able
> to get
> > the offending piece out.
> *****
> Scary. Good you kept at it! Did you try going into her mouth to
> pull or/push down the piece of food? Sometimes that is more
quickly
> effective than the Heimlich. I have a pair of those surgical tongy
> things for reaching down deep if needs be.

She was clenching her teeth so tightly that I couldn't go into her
mouth. I think it was when it came up into her throat that I was able
to get in and grab the chunk of food.
>
> She did the same thing the following day (it
> > was goat meat that I had left, not frozen, but "hard." I truly
> > believe that if I hadn't intervened, she would have choked to
> death.
> *****
> Hard to know, good you didn't have to find out. Again, perhaps you
> are feeding something just a hair larger than she can easily
swallow
> (again, overstated ambitions on her part), or, on the other hand,
> food that's not quite large enough to stifle the challenge.
>
> I have found through similar experiences that it's the "middle
> sized" food that causes the most anxiety. So I don't feed middle
> sized food. If it's not significantly BIG, I cut it smaller. If I
> have any doubt about the hunk being big enough, it gets made
> smaller. But this comes from time on the job and knowing how
greedy
> my dogs are.
>
> What is "middle sized" to you, specifically? I have no idea. But
> conceptually it's food that may be viewed by the dog as swallowable
> without further processing, even if it isn't. Like, perhaps, the
> six ounces of lamb you fed or the somewhat frozen hunk of goat. My
> guess is the Big Food you are feeding is not Big enough.

You're right it's not Big Food. I have given her a goat leg that was
probably over 14 inches long with enough meat on it for her. She did
very well. Goats are built weird to me so I can't tell what other
parts I've given her but they have been complicated. I try to feed
bigger than her muzzle and I was doing fine til the other day. Now
it's just plain scary.
>
>
> > Please tell me what exactly should I give her for dinner?
> *****
> I can't tell you exactly. To what extent have you tested her self-
> regulatory ability? Have you? Or do you call it quits when YOU
> think it's quitting time? Perhaps there's a gap between her quits
> and your quits that you should re-evaluate.

I have let her go until she herself has stopped out of tiredness or
fullness. I don't feel too sorry for this piglet, trust me. I will be
giving her much bigger food and see when she stops.
>
> Maybe large chunk of beef/pork ribs? Goat leg?
> *****
> These sound fine, but I recommend though that you are sure the both
> of you agree on what constitutes a "large chunk." I'm guessing you
> need to make the chunk larger yet.
>
> Beef ribs are not generally fed for edible, and the meat on beef
> ribs is not abundant. If you want to feed a slab of beef ribs for
> the effort, good; to make the event a full meal consider adding
some
> meat (either a big enough hunk or meat that's cut small enough to
> gulp foolishly). I'd think a goat leg would be dandy.

I guess I'll just be watching her ribcage to make sure she doesn't
get porky on me. SHE is getting BIG pieces from now on, in fact,
today she got a goat leg destined for pittie-boy
>
>
> She
> > will tackle these with gusto. Big pieces one day then on the next
> day
> > a piece of kidney with gizzard? I'm lost.
> *****
> I don't think you're lost. I think you are there but don't
> recognize it.
>
> If a goat leg is a Big Meal for your pug, then yes, some kidney or
a
> rew gizzards would fine small meals the next day. However--based
on
> what she did with her hunk o' lamb--perhaps the piece of kidney
> should be fed in either notably small pieces or a notably larger
wad.
>
> If finding the right hunk of meat is difficult, you can always feed
> a lovely meaty body part (goat leg is excellent; lamb shank might
be
> another option, as are tom turkey necks or drums, or trimmed out
> pork shoulder half-roasts) one day and an appropriate amount of cut
> up meat the next. Or--even--offer a really big hunk o' meat that
> she simply cannot jam into her greedy maw but take it away when
> she's eaten her share.

Piglet has eaten goat legs, goat thighs?, turkey drums and she is
such a darling compact little pug. Pig is what she is. And yes,
that's what she does, aspirates and jams, lol. Sorry I sound giddy
but her choking really, really scared me. Thanks for your help, Chris.

Silvina

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: still swallowing whole
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:38 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> If she refuses to eat politely you'll have to make an artificial
small
> meal for her. Give her a big chunk of stuff and just take it away
> after she's had a little bit. I'm sorry you had such a scary
moment
> with her. Just keep things big and she might learn to eat politely
> down the road.
Yes, I'm going to be trying that. She is getting BIG food from now on
that I will relish taking away from her ;0) It really was horrible
and the fact that it happened twice didn't make matters any better.

>
> BTW, you mention that you've given up on the other one, what does
that
> mean?

Poor Chunkie, I haven't given him away or locked him in a dark room.
Chunkie is my timid, "tender" pug ;0). He will not touch his food, he
raises his head way up and dangles it, if I give him an RMB he will
chew it until it's turned white and very mushy and he still hasn't
taken any meat off of it. Mind you, I've left him outside with his
RMB until he wants to come in (that's been over an hour) and I've
given the RMN to the other dog. I really am envious of everyone with
a ripping and tearing dog and my other ones are like that but the
pugs.....I'm going to have to keep feeding him his rabbit, turkey
drums, etc, and give him the extra meat in small chunks. Thanks for
your concern, Andrea.

Silvina

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: video - my dog eating a furry rabbit
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:36 pm ((PDT))

Where's the video, do we have to go the website to view it?

Brandi

On 10/31/07, Patty Linden <pattykat3@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Lisa--Just wanted to tell you your video was great--a little choppy,
> like you said. It's so interesting for me to hear that some other's dogs
> don't like to use their paws to eat--I was beginning to think there was
> something wrong with my little fellow.
> :-) Patty
>
> Hi,
>
> I posted a couple videos I took of my dog eating two types of raw
> food - a whole, furry rabbit ... and a chicken back (when he was a
> pup).
>
>
> .
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: video - my dog eating a furry rabbit
Posted by: "Deb" thegrittons@yahoo.com thegrittons
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:18 pm ((PDT))

Hi Lisa! Loved the clips. Was interesting to watch! Was a little
blurry, but was fun to see. And, what a good looking dog!
~Deb~

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Lisa S." <acbrio@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I posted a couple videos I took of my dog eating two types of raw
> food - a whole, furry rabbit ... and a chicken back (when he was a
> pup).

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: video - my dog eating a furry rabbit
Posted by: "chandler_baby" chandler_baby@yahoo.com chandler_baby
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:52 pm ((PDT))

Lisa,

What a nice video and Brio is a beautiful Toller!

Thanks for sharing.

Roxane

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

4d. Re: video - my dog eating a furry rabbit
Posted by: "Lisa S." acbrio@shaw.ca trzazz
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:32 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the nice comments, everyone ! :) Glad you like them.
Brio is blushing from the compliments. Yep, he has been called a handsome dude
before :).
I have now posted the rabbit and chicken back videos on YouTube as well.

Brio (a 40 pound, 2.5 yr old duck Toller) eating his first whole, furry rabbit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzCldGfvS40

Brio as a puppy (about 12 weeks old) eating half a chicken back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X91j4dByAZM

Hopefully that is a little better quality picture and sound. They display better for me. I
loaded the best quality YouTube would allow me to upload.

I have described my dog eating a rabbit to several people, including vegetarian friends....
heh heh. Good "gross out" or fascination factor. One of the vegetarians asked (with a look
of total concern on her face) if the rabbit was live when I gave it to him. Oh brother !! I
assured her that it was quite dead... and frozen.. then I thawed it out and gave it to him.

On the "I don't want to touch ANY icky thing with my paws unless I absolutely have to !
Ewww gross !!" issue, I have heard of others on these lists with dogs like that :).

- Lisa S.
and Brio

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "chandler_baby" <chandler_baby@...> wrote:
>
> Lisa,
>
> What a nice video and Brio is a beautiful Toller!
>
> Thanks for sharing.
>
> Roxane
>

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

4e. Re: video - my dog eating a furry rabbit
Posted by: "Donald J. O'Neill" DonaldJONeill@gmail.com donaldjoneill
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:49 pm ((PDT))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR MESSAGES PLEASE.

Hi Lisa,

It was quite interesting to see the technique Brio used. It's a bit different
from what my Airedale, Duncan, uses. But then, Duncan usually catches wild
rabbits, so maybe, that's the reason for the different technique, or maybe
not. Duncan will skin the rabbits first. then start working on eating them,
beginning with the stomach area first. Usually what's left is, maybe, one
foot and a whole lot of fur. One year, he caught 7 rabbits and 6 woodchucks.
Woodchucks are easier, they can't move as fast as rabbits.

Don

On Wednesday 31 October 2007 05:50:13 pm Lisa S. wrote:
> Thanks for the nice comments, everyone ! :) Glad you like them.
> Brio is blushing from the compliments. Yep, he has been called a handsome
> dude before :).
> I have now posted the rabbit and chicken back videos on YouTube as well.
>
> Brio (a 40 pound, 2.5 yr old duck Toller) eating his first whole, furry
> rabbit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzCldGfvS40
>
> Brio as a puppy (about 12 weeks old) eating half a chicken back:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X91j4dByAZM
>
> Hopefully that is a little better quality picture and sound. They display
> better for me. I loaded the best quality YouTube would allow me to upload.
>
> I have described my dog eating a rabbit to several people, including
> vegetarian friends.... heh heh. Good "gross out" or fascination factor. One
> of the vegetarians asked (with a look of total concern on her face) if the
> rabbit was live when I gave it to him. Oh brother !! I assured her that it
> was quite dead... and frozen.. then I thawed it out and gave it to him.
>
> On the "I don't want to touch ANY icky thing with my paws unless I
> absolutely have to ! Ewww gross !!" issue, I have heard of others on these
> lists with dogs like that :).
>
> - Lisa S.
> and Brio

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Lab work
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:18 pm ((PDT))

Brandi,

This is getting far off topic for this list, but I think you are confused
about this.
If the blood had been sent to Dr. Dodds to begin with, she would have run
the tests and you'd have the results already! The lab is right there...she
doesn't ship to Tennessee. I don't know where you got that idea?

We don't worship Dr. Dodds, but she is *the* expert in thyroid disease so if
there is any chance of hypothyroidism, she's the one you want evaluating the
blood. There is absolutely nothing that says a hypothyroid dog has to be
fat! Here is a list of the many possible symptoms, and only one need be
present to indicate disease....
http://siriusdog.com/articles/hypothyroid-dog-signs.htm

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@gmail.com>

> Are you in California though where she is? I'm in Oklahoma where the vet
> would ship it to her in California then they would ship to
> Tennessee...what's the point?
>
> Brandi

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: {Raw Feeding} Lab work
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:52 pm ((PDT))

This is getting far off topic for this list, but I think you are confused
about this.

Then I will let the subject drop - I'm beginning to get the impression
nobody really cares what going on with my boy anyway! And I'm not confused
- I trust my vet COMPLETELY and he also thinks that Max isn't
hypothyroid!!! Subject DROPPED!!! Sorry to bother everyone about this, I
thought this group cared!!!

Brandi
Bartlesville, OK

On 10/31/07, Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>

--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: {Raw Feeding} Lab work
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...>
wrote:
>
> - I trust my vet COMPLETELY and he also thinks that Max isn't
> hypothyroid!!!

Brandi,
I think you are going to find that there are people on this and a few
other lists that mistakenly think Dr Dodds is the only vet in the
world capable of doing a thyroid test or diagnosing most anything.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5d. Re: {Raw Feeding} Lab work
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:46 pm ((PDT))

"Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...> wrote:
>And the lab that Dr. Dodd uses is
> the same lab that my vet uses. Why spend the extra money, if Dr.
Dodd took
> the blood sample and did the tests in her own lab I could see doing
it but
> that's just an extra step that I can avoid if my vet uses the same
lab.
*****
It's not the lab, it's the interpretation.
Chris o

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5e. Re: {Raw Feeding} Lab work
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:50 pm ((PDT))

There are only two labs that run the complete panel....MSU and Antech.
Using Antech you get the benefit of Dr. Dodds' experience and research to
not only diagnose but communicate with the pet owner and their vet to
recommend a treatment program.
It's a win/win situation!

And no, it is not possible to properly diagnose or treat hypothyroidism by
merely running the T3, T4, whatever is included in normal bloodwork
routinely run by local vets.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "carnesbill" <carnesw@bellsouth.net>

I think you are going to find that there are people on this and a few
other lists that mistakenly think Dr Dodds is the only vet in the
world capable of doing a thyroid test or diagnosing most anything.

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5f. Re: {Raw Feeding} Lab work
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:56 pm ((PDT))

"Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...> wrote:
I'm beginning to get the impression
> nobody really cares what going on with my boy anyway!
*****
Brandi, if you would be so kind as to offer some evidence that your
respondents don't care, I'd appreciate it. The replies I've read
appear to be concerned that his blood work be read properly so that
proper diagnosis and treatment can be made. How is that not caring?

My guess is you are anoyed because people aren't buying into your
choice. That's life, it doesn't mean the people on this list don't
give a hoot about your dog. It means people disagree with your
choice. Heck, that happens. About blood work, about chicken necks,
about chicken backs, about green tripe, about veggies, about vaccines.

It's your money, he's your dog, the final answer is always yours. No
one is dismissing your dog. I think if anyone owes anyone an apology,
it would be coming from you and offered to the people on this list who
responded and are indeed concerned about his recovery.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

5g. ADMIN/Re: {Raw Feeding} Lab work
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:58 pm ((PDT))

This subject is closed. Further discussion should be taken to RawChat.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Ready for Next Step/Question about lamb shanks
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:18 pm ((PDT))

I would feed a new food in with the already tolerated food for a day, maybe two, then on its own for maybe three days, but you will know by your dog after a day or two of feeding it, I'm sure.

I dont feed lamb leg bones as often now as my pup is a larger breed with a very strong bite so I feel its a bit brittle for him, since he can consume the whole bone and its the middle part that seems to cause a bit of the 'runs' with bone in it, just the body's way of getting rid. However, I will let him eat the softer joint end, which he seems to mush up more and this causes no problem what so ever.I would be tempted to feed them, sometimes get them free at the end of the night in the butchers too! Flank is usually cheap enough and softer bones with plenty meat between and fat to go with it.

Natalie

---------------------------------
For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. rabbit
Posted by: "Cindy Morettin" superdogz@sbcglobal.net cindymorettin
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:52 pm ((PDT))

Hi Guys,

I am wondering if it'll okay to feed my dogs rabbits that may have had rabbitt fever? Is this something to be concerned about? A friend of mine is offering to bring me whole raw rabbit but warned me of the rabbit fever thing.

Thanks!
Cindy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Salmonella question
Posted by: "alexanderdewey" alexanderdewey@yahoo.com alexanderdewey
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:37 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for all the replys and info. I see the general consensus here
is - Don't worry about salmonella. So I won't.

On the issue of feeding Gigi k***ble for a few days next week while
I'm away - I'm not boarding her, she's staying with a friend of mine
and the idea is to make things "as easy as possible" for my friend.
So if it wont be to Gigi's detriment to feed her those 'doom nuggets'
for a few days (ie: cause bacterial problem), at least I know we have
that option.

THANKSAGAIN,

Alex

Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Ground Food
Posted by: "mrsmenk" mrsmenk@starpower.net mrsmenk
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:39 pm ((PDT))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.

I am new to raw feeding - about a week into it now. I have been
hearing about ground food (bones, organs, etc.). I have two dogs over
100 lbs and a 10 lb cat. Is this type of ground useful at all in a raw
diet?

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: Ground Food
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:43 pm ((PDT))

No, there is really no benefit to ground foods. What exactly have you been
feeding?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "mrsmenk" <mrsmenk@starpower.net>

I am new to raw feeding - about a week into it now. I have been
hearing about ground food (bones, organs, etc.). I have two dogs over
100 lbs and a 10 lb cat. Is this type of ground useful at all in a raw
diet?

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------