[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12216

There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: tripe, now what?
From: costrowski75
1b. Re: tripe, now what?
From: Scott Baker
1c. Re: tripe, now what?
From: Josephine Morningstar
1d. Re: tripe, now what?
From: MARJORY
1e. Re: tripe, now what?
From: Scott Baker

2a. ADMIN/Re: house cleaning product for dogs
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: How Long to Freeze Fresh Venison (first time)
From: costrowski75
3b. Re: How Long to Freeze Fresh Venison (first time)
From: helpshelteranimals

4a. Re: upset tummy
From: Anna Labriola
4b. Re: upset tummy
From: dutcher_katherine
4c. Re: upset tummy
From: dutcher_katherine

5a. Re: Scratching
From: linoleum5017

6a. starting feeding
From: mbrown33333
6b. Re: starting feeding
From: jennifer_hell

7a. Re: backward??
From: Dawn Ruhl

8. tripe and stool
From: MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com

9a. runny stools
From: doreenchui
9b. Re: runny stools
From: ed_khang

10a. Re: Green tripe location
From: Josephine Morningstar

11a. Re: Bella, yet again.
From: Josephine Morningstar

Messages
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1a. Re: tripe, now what?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:20 pm ((PDT))

"Kevin & Nancy McCloskey" <kpmnlm@...> wrote:
>> I keep reading how smelly the green tripe is
*****
It is only smelly if you've never been in a working barn. I mean
it's not roses but it's also not rose fertilizer. Chicken poop is
FAR worse!

Do your dogs smell like it
> when they are done feeding on it???
*****
Absolutely not. At least not mine, not ever. Yesterday I fed great
hunks of the stuff (first time I've had the opportunity to feed tripe
hunks) and was in fact curious if whole tripe would be linger longer.

Nope.

No lingering smell. Not on the dogs, not from the dogs.

Nada.

Didn't know if I'd have to be prepared for
> "smelly dog" when I get around to trying it!
*****
Your hands might smell more than you'd prefer but I seriously doubt
your dog will at all.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (16)
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1b. Re: tripe, now what?
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:06 am ((PDT))

Yup, my pup loves tripe as well. I try and feed large peices of it, as whole
as I can.

If anyone is interested, this is my pup eating and shaking and ripping and
tearing at his whole tripe :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdwcB_fKaQk

--
Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (16)
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1c. Re: tripe, now what?
Posted by: "Josephine Morningstar" josephine.morningstar@gmail.com jomorningstar
Date: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:21 am ((PDT))

is that tripe denatured? as it looks quite pale to me.

but my only exposure to raw tripe is what is ground up fresh from cows that
i buy in tube s (not bravo) and the only white hunks in is the lungs that
is combined in it.

just curious.

On 10/29/07, Scott Baker <scottsbaker@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yup, my pup loves tripe as well. I try and feed large peices of it, as
> whole
> as I can.
>
> If anyone is interested, this is my pup eating and shaking and ripping and
> tearing at his whole tripe :)
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdwcB_fKaQk
>
> --
> Scott
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying
> on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated
> with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You
> agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal
> responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats,
> ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't
> agree, please unsubscribe immediately.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Josephine MorningStar & Heather, Pyr, Mobility & MASD
Native American in Massachusetts

Never threaten anyone. It ruins the surprise.
www.apachecreations.com

By Believing, One Sees.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (16)
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1d. Re: tripe, now what?
Posted by: "MARJORY" birdgirl@hvc.rr.com lovinalldogs
Date: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:03 am ((PDT))

I wash their beards with one of those extra absorbent cloths and warm water after their meals. Any meat would make their beards smell if it wasn't cleaned off. They don't love that part, but.......

And, my dogs' breath is very sweet. I've found that only their fuzzy faces will smell if I don't wash them.

Marjory

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (16)
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1e. Re: tripe, now what?
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:03 am ((PDT))

Thats as raw/unprocessed as it gets. Not to sound gross, but I cut it up in
the field

On 10/29/07, Josephine Morningstar <josephine.morningstar@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> is that tripe denatured? as it looks quite pale to me.
>
> but my only exposure to raw tripe is what is ground up fresh from cows
> that
> i buy in tube s (not bravo) and the only white hunks in is the lungs that
> is combined in it.
>
> just curious.
>
> .
>
>
>

--
Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (16)
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2a. ADMIN/Re: house cleaning product for dogs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:27 pm ((PDT))

This thread needs to go quite promptly to RawChat. Consider it a done
deal on this list.
Thanks.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (16)
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3a. Re: How Long to Freeze Fresh Venison (first time)
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:31 pm ((PDT))

"helpshelteranimals" <helpshelteranimals@...> wrote:
>I freeze it for 3
> to 4 weeks right?
*****
Sometimes I freeze it not at all.
Three weeks is plenty, four weeks buy you nothing more than three do.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: How Long to Freeze Fresh Venison (first time)
Posted by: "helpshelteranimals" helpshelteranimals@yahoo.com helpshelteranimals
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:49 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> Sometimes I freeze it not at all.

> Chris O
************

You mean I don't have to freeze at all????!!!

If that is the case I won't!

AG & Ruffian (mystery mutt)

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: upset tummy
Posted by: "Anna Labriola" taggartgalt@yahoo.com taggartgalt
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:56 pm ((PDT))

Yassy, that was an awesome argument!!! Brava! Thanks for putting
the time in to type that out.

Anna

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> I agree to kathy. I cannot force people how to feed their own dogs
but I think rawfeeding is most healthiest feeding way.
> <kibble>

> <home-made>

> <rawfeeding>

> Since I belive the dog diet should be based on
meat,andrawstatehas more nutrientsandthey can digest the raw better
than cooked with nothing added to food,I decided to feed raw andI
never regret the decision I made.
>
> yassy

Messages in this topic (16)
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4b. Re: upset tummy
Posted by: "dutcher_katherine" katherinedutcher@hotmail.com dutcher_katherine
Date: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:21 am ((PDT))

+++Mod note. please sign and trim your emails. This one trimmed for you by a mod. ta. ++++++++++++

I see all of your points and actually probably would go cold turkey
if it was totally up to me. However, I share my dogs with my
husband and he is not at all keen on raw feeding. He is only very
reluctantly allowing me to feed RMBs a few nights a week now. He
has agreed to let me introduce those and to begin research which is
why I joined this group. Since they are his dogs too I really cant
totally insist we go 100% raw immediately when he is so opposed to
it. Right now my only choice, unless I want to risk MAJOR marital
discord, is a slow introduction and hopefully transition to raw. I
discussed with him the idea that combining would only make their
tummies more upset but he is still convined a slow transition is
better. He has read some of the data on variouos raw feeding
websites but is still not totally convinced. I dont want to give up
and go back to kibble, which he would prefer, because I know kibble
is not the best for my dogs. I understand you all support 100% raw,
but do you think a combination of raw and kibble is worse then all
kibble? Also remember I am combining with the goal of convincing
him to go 100% raw. It also doesnt help that every vet we have been
to, and recently Ive tried out 4, is very leery about raw. Three
out and out said its bad (I know that they are wrong and vets no
little about nutrition but my husband is not so sure) and the fourth
said maybe raw is ok but its a risk. Im hoping to get more
information on this group to make the transition to raw easier and
to convince my husband that we can make it work for our dogs without
making them sick and going broke byung raw meat for four dogs.

Messages in this topic (16)
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4c. Re: upset tummy
Posted by: "dutcher_katherine" katherinedutcher@hotmail.com dutcher_katherine
Date: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:21 am ((PDT))

+++Mod note. please sign and trim your emails. This one trimmed for you by a mod. ta. ++++++++++++

I just want to reitierant Im not trying to argue with you guys at
all. I agree raw is best, but I do need to respect my husbands
concersns. Another question I bought the book the easy way to feed
your dog raw food which will hopefully help, but the chicken legs I
bought are actually quite meaty. I got a cleaver to cut them up for
the litle guys. I know the 2% of weight rule, thats with the bone
right? I dont want to over feed. I also got pork necks which I
know lots of people feed but they look so tiny (they where chopped
up in the supermarket package) Im worried about choking. What do
you guys think. Also when I go over 100% to raw should I feed some
meals just ground meat because they are already getting so much bone
or should everything (other then organ meats which I havent started
yet) be on the bones---

Messages in this topic (16)
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5a. Re: Scratching
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:56 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Rae,

I am sympathetic to the 'scratching a lot' syndrome, as my pup did
that at several points in his 1-year life, (so far.) The first
scratching episode seemed to be related to his new fur coming in, (at
around 3 months...) No problem with that one. I wasn't rawfeeding
him yet. Then I began rawfeeding, and no problemo. He loved it. His
fur got so glossy and thick, everyone wanted to pet him just for the
experience. : )

The next bout of scratching began right after he was neutered, (10
months,) and I'm convinced it was a reaction to the anasthesia. Much
of his fur fell out, and the vet blamed his diet, though it had not
changed one bit from his heyday of thick, luscious fur. His immune
system seemed compromised from the surgery, and he fell prey to fleas,
etc. Once we got the fleas under control, the fur has begun to grow
back, and it feels luxurious again. All the same diet.

All that to say, PA and NJ are not that different, weather-wise.
Don't think it can be that.... is it possible it is flea-related??? If
so, that can be good news, as the weather is finally getting cold.
Another idea is to try diotomaceous earth baths, a tip from Giselle
from this list.

If you believe strongly the scratching is diet-related, then reduce
the variables to only one protein source. If the scratching continues
past one week, try changing the source entirely, and stick with it for
at least a week. If there is improvement, then perhaps there is a
sensitivity in your dog to the original type of meat. That is really
rare, however, for a dog to be sensitive to a rawmeat. Just the same,
should that be the case, continue rawfeeding the meat that is
agreeable, adding eggs and organs a little at a time, once the
acceptable rawmeat has proven symptom-free.

It is not a bad idea to go back to the initial rawmeat eventually, and
see if it is still an irritant. I'm guessing there may have been too
many variables introduced in a short period of time, and your dog's
system may have gotten overloaded.

FTR, yellow bile sometimes is a product of a dog not having eaten in a
while, and throwing up the 'emptiness.' It seems to happen in
the 'between' stages of puppy-hood and adulthood, when the owner
reduces the number of feedings in the day. Is one of your dogs in
transition?

Grass-eating seems to be a dog's way of straightening out its system.
A little vomit now and then is not a bad thing, in and of itself. Any
extreme condition, however, like not eating for 5 days, or severe
diarrhea is reason to consult a veterinarian right away.

HTH,
Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "raeminpin24" <raeminpin24@...>
wrote:
>
I started on raw and now I noticed last night that my german pinscher
is scraching a lot, could this be the weather as she came from New
Jersey to Pa or is it the raw diet and something I'm not or doing
needs changed? She has been with me since July 5th of this year. I
also have her and my minature pinscher eating grass and wanting out to
get it more often and my other Fox Terrior thew up some yellow acid
color but dosen't eat the grass as often. Any sugestions would be much
welcome.
>

Messages in this topic (11)
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6a. starting feeding
Posted by: "mbrown33333" mbrown33333@yahoo.co.uk mbrown33333
Date: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:26 am ((PDT))

Hi
i have a 5 year old staffy (ruby) and getting a 8 week old amstaff pup
(cleo) in a couple of weeks time and would like to start the staffy on
raw now and when i pick up the amstaff pup put her on raw as well.
I have got some chicken mince and chicken necks to start with but
after more reading it seems like people dont like to feed the necks as
they are to small for the staffy but would i be able to feed them to
the pup or is that not a good idear as well.
How long should i keep ruby on the mince before i start adding chicken
legs ect and other raw meats to here meals and when do i start to add
liver.

thanks mike

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: starting feeding
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:13 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mbrown33333" <mbrown33333@...> wrote:

> How long should i keep ruby on the mince before i start adding chicken
> legs ect and other raw meats to here meals and when do i start to add
> liver.
>

No mince, no necks, just give them whole chicken cut into four parts
if necessary. No chicken necks, apart from the choking hazard the
meat/ bone ratio is bad.
Keep on chicken for a week, then start incorporating other animal
parts.Wait a month or so before feeding liver.

Jennifer with Mandy (pit girl too!)

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: backward??
Posted by: "Dawn Ruhl" Dawnofthedanes@mac.com dawnofthedanes
Date: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:13 am ((PDT))

Hey Casey,
I agree about all the stress somewhere that is bothering this dog,
and also testing to make sure the thyroid meds are doing their job...
I would also recommend probiotics in heavy doses and digestive enzymes.
Making sure the enzymes are not from plant sources, only animal sources.
B-Naturals enzymes are made that way....

How long has this dog been on raw? Sounds like he has yet to detox, or
may be he is just starting. Sometimes when a dog detoxes it will get
more
inflamed and aggravated before it finally calms down. Have seen it more
than once in some Dane rescues that have come through here. Especially
older dogs who have been vaxed out the ying-yang and fed ki**le for
eons.
Takes a long time to undo what has been done. I know first hand what
yeast can do to a body! And it is not a quick fix kind of problem,
either.
The raw diet is not a guarantee that the dog will ever be perfect,
don't we
all wish. I certainly would never vaccinate this dog again, either.

I would also get him off of tap water, unless you have a well. And I
would
be putting Oxydrops in his water. Fluoride is linked to thyroid problems
and should not be ruled out.... and I would also get some good
herbals to
strengthen his immune system.

He is truly blessed to have an owner who is so willing to go that
extra mile
for him... hope you find the solution soon.
Dawn

~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~
Re: backward??
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:32 pm (PST)

he smells like chee-tos.
>
> Seems yeasty to me,

**Sounds like a good call - the smell is usually a giveaway...staph
smells a
bit different.

>> but why yeasty on meat?

**Yeast is an opportunistic beggar. While it thrives on sugars and
starches, it can also bloom simply as a result of the body's immune
system
being less than optimal and not able to balance it out as well as it
should.

> I'm giving him fish oil capsules (no soy) and he's on
> soloxine .3 mg (is that right?) daily (1.5 2x day) per Dr. Dodds.
>
> He has heartworms too (it's been almost two years since diagnosis).

**Hypothyroid and heartworm + ... both stresses on the immune system.

> I thought th diet would help more???

**Diet is the foundation of health, yes. But it isn't a be-all, end-
all to
wellness (unfortunately). Other factors play a role - genetics, stress,
environment, allergies, vaccines, etc.

**If this were my dog, I would have his thyroid rechecked to make
sure that
his meds don't need to be adjusted and I'd talk to my vet about
reevaluating
the heartworm situation to see if there's any new issues that need to be
addressed. Something is stressing this dog's body more than it used to
be...

**Good luck.

Casey

~;*;~ Dawn ~;*;~
"There's enough for a Bull, There's enough for a Bear,
But, there's never enough for a Pig"- John P Ruhl Sr.
http://www.dawnofthedanes.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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8. tripe and stool
Posted by: "MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com" MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com mustbluvspaniels
Date: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:06 am ((PDT))

does feeding the tripe cause any loose stool? Lisa

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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9a. runny stools
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:27 am ((PDT))

does pumpkin help to firm up stool? if so, cooked or raw?
Doreen

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: runny stools
Posted by: "ed_khang" ed_khang@yahoo.com ed_khang
Date: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:02 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "doreenchui" <doreenchui@...> wrote:
>
> does pumpkin help to firm up stool? if so, cooked or raw?
> Doreen
>

Yes and no. At first it will firm it up a bit, then it may cause gas
and explosive poo-cano. I learned the hard way, very messy. Best way
is to feed lean bone rich meat. My personal favorite for firming up
the poo is chicken breast, no skin, with plenty of rib bone left in.

-Ed

Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Re: Green tripe location
Posted by: "Josephine Morningstar" josephine.morningstar@gmail.com jomorningstar
Date: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:21 am ((PDT))

On 10/28/07, Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I have seen canned tripe,but is it any good,everybody?

some heating is required to can it properly. but maybe some that have fed
raw tripe for long time. then try the canned. might be able to tell if there
is much difference.

If so,where do you get the canned tripe from?

http://www.sitstay.com/store/edibles/tripett.shtml

this seems to be about the best form of canned tripe i have seen.. others
have used the tripe from stores. that is bleached.

this at least is coming out as the same color of the raw fresh / frozen i
get.. its from upper ny state. and i pay just over $1 per lb its in 5 lb
tubes

--
Josephine MorningStar & Heather, Pyr, Mobility & MASD
Native American in Massachusetts

Never threaten anyone. It ruins the surprise.
www.apachecreations.com

By Believing, One Sees.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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11a. Re: Bella, yet again.
Posted by: "Josephine Morningstar" josephine.morningstar@gmail.com jomorningstar
Date: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:39 am ((PDT))

On 10/28/07, Renate <renate.tideswell@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We are now about 2 weeks later, and Bella, my pregnant bitch (due around
> 11
> Nov) still is very resistant to eating the foods she loved when we started
> on raw - no chicken, no pork,

have you tried just ckn meat? no bone.

yogurt / cheese would have the calcium crushed egg shell would also.

she is thrilled to bits to eat beef kidney,

other enzymes in here then in muscle meats.

but that is about all for major joy-dance reactions. I can hand-feed her a
> bit of lamb or beef (but very limited success in this),

more energy to digest them i suspect.

She'll also eat a bit of chicken liver.

I found that chicken liver has some extra (to the ckn) T4 , thyroid
hormone. not just for fighting infection, but for help in regulating the
body functions.

And is
> usually willing to eat beef heart.

easier to digest beef muscle meat.. the fibers are not as firmly packed as
in weight bearing muscle meat. so its easier to digest and she seems to not
want to spend much energy on digestion .. from what you have written.

I gave my other dogs some pork shanks
> and they brought the bones in and she stole one of those tonight and
> chewed
> on that quite happily for an hour. My vet is on my back to feed 'balanced
> meals' - science diet is her prescription.

thats full of antifreeze.. and not healthy forms of meats. and its also
grains.. when i challenged my own vet on the stuff.. he had not really read
the labels.. just took the salesman's hype about it.. as defense.. i looked
up all the ingredeints and handed him a paper on them.. with the websites to
check me out.. he has stopped pushing the diet since then.. and is seriously
thinking of not carrying it anymore for HIM thats a big step.

and Bella's poop is definitely
> reflecting her diet. I'm feeding her 3 times a day now unless I just
> cannot
> make it home. Should I panic? There doesn't seem to be any problem with
> her or growth. She does sleep alot, but who wouldn't in her state? I had
> to be away all day today and came back to some very black, nasty wet
> poopies,

very black would mean there is stomach irritation? im GUESSING.. but BLACK
anything is not from lack of bone..

> Should I try to get her to eat some egg shells - -

yogurt has calcium, and cheese does also.. yogurt will supply her with
natural iodine to help the thyroid function better and that regulates the
rest of the endocrine system in the body. cheese also will help firm up the
stools.. provides calcium and is usually something that dogs seem to WANT
badly..

i use white cheese rather then stuff that is colored.. some grocery stores
have cheese from the end of the deli product.. ours sells them at a much
reduced price and you can get it quite often.. at my stores.. check out the
deli if there is nothing offered .. and see if they would sell you the ends
at a reduced rate.. cant hurt to try.

--
Josephine MorningStar & Heather, Pyr, Mobility & MASD
Native American in Massachusetts

Never threaten anyone. It ruins the surprise.
www.apachecreations.com

By Believing, One Sees.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

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