[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12214

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. tripe, now what?
From: MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com
1b. Re: tripe, now what?
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: tripe, now what?
From: moemahood@aol.com

2a. Re: menu planning?
From: mousegirls
2b. Re: menu planning?
From: Sandee Lee

3a. Whole turkeys
From: kjdaughtridge
3b. Re: Whole turkeys
From: Denise Strother
3c. Re: Whole turkeys
From: katkellm

4a. Re: Supplement?
From: Shirley

5a. Re: Scratching
From: Shirley

6a. New at this... Need advice...
From: barkingcantaloupe
6b. Re: New at this... Need advice...
From: Anntiga@aol.com
6c. Re: New at this... Need advice...
From: Sandee Lee
6d. Re: New at this... Need advice...
From: katkellm

7a. upset tummy
From: katherine dutcher
7b. Re: upset tummy
From: Sandee Lee
7c. Re: upset tummy
From: katkellm
7d. Re: upset tummy
From: dutcher_katherine
7e. Re: upset tummy
From: katkellm

8a. Prey Model and some other questions
From: Caitlin
8b. Re: Prey Model and some other questions
From: Sandee Lee
8c. Re: Prey Model and some other questions
From: katkellm

9. Turkey necks and legs
From: Patty Linden

10a. Re: More reasons to go raw!
From: marlena_adema

11. backward??
From: Cdandp2@aol.com

Messages
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1a. tripe, now what?
Posted by: "MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com" MustBLuvSpaniels@aol.com mustbluvspaniels
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:42 am ((PDT))

I bought some green tripe yesterday, made by Bravo. This is the 1st time I
have found some. It looks and smells disgusting. So should I consider this a
treat, of something I can feed a little bit everyday with their meal? Do I
feed it instead of a meal? Lisa

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: tripe, now what?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:43 am ((PDT))

MustBLuvSpaniels@... wrote:
>
> I bought some green tripe yesterday, made by Bravo. This is the 1st
time I
> have found some. It looks and smells disgusting.
*****
Thanks goodness you're not doing the eating!

So should I consider this a
> treat, of something I can feed a little bit everyday with their
meal? Do I
> feed it instead of a meal?
*****
All of that. It can function as a whole meal, it can be a side dish
if you want it that way, it can be a morsel treat if you'd prefer.
What you can afford and the extent to which your dog likes it fully
determine how much green tripe you feed and how you feed it.

Yesterday I gave my dogs several pounds (each) of partly thawed green
tripe wad, courtesy Merril and one very big dead cow (blessings on
you Merril!) along with a chicken quarter. That was yesterday's and
today's meal.

When I have it around, I feed it. When I feed it I typically feed it
in generous servings.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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1c. Re: tripe, now what?
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:49 pm ((PDT))

I bought some green tripe yesterday, made by Bravo. This is the 1st time I
have found some. It looks and smells disgusting. So should I consider this a
treat, of something I can feed a little bit everyday with their meal? Do I
feed it instead of a meal? Lisa

Lisa, I feed green tripe all the time.? My dogs love it and my supplier will cut it into .5lb baggies for me so its real easy to feed.? Mine just went through about 20lbs of it and I've ordered some more.?

Is it whole or ground?? I like the whole better because it gives them great chewing time.?

?Maureen

________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: menu planning?
Posted by: "mousegirls" mousegirls@gmail.com ladysown
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:03 am ((PDT))

Hi Nicole

Welcome
yes, dogs can be fed mice. For a rottweiler you are going to need a lot
of them. :) One adult mouse weighs on average 2 oz. Dogs are
generally fed at 2% ideal bodyweight. So that's 8 mice for a pound.
My guess for a rotty you're looking at about 1.5 pounds of food each day
possibly up to 2 so that 12-16 mice. Now...if you have a big colony of
mice that is eminently doable. That's about 2-3 litters of mice.

Not sure what the resale value of mice are...I find that raising them
and then selling the babies at 6 weeks I get 75 cents a piece for them.
I can buy more meat than I can raise just on mice. In fact between my
mice and freecycle I don't have to use our hard earned money for our
meat anymore. :)

They can eat rats to. Some dogs won't eat the tails. That's normal.
Just toss 'em. A good rat will run at 1-2 pounds or so. Makes the
feeding easier.

To start out, what most people do is pick one meat source and just feed
that for at least 2 weeks before introducing a different meat source.
then every two weeks or so add another. in a couple of months add some
liver, but do so slowly.

annette
http://ladysown.blogspot.com/
http://agilitynut.wordpress.com/

"What a man is alone on his knees before God, that he is, and no more".-Robert Murray M'Cheyne
"I believe that prayer is the measure of the man, spiritually, in a way that nothing else is, so that how we pray is as important a question as we can ever face"- J.I. Packer

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: menu planning?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:32 pm ((PDT))

Hi Nicole,

For the first week or two, just buy a few chickens, cut into quarters and
hand to dog. Easy, huh??

Once he has adjusted to digesting chicken well, you can slowly begin adding
in variety, more meat and some organs. By then you should be able to see
just how much he requires per meal or per day

Sandee & the Dane Gang

My first question is can anyone supply me with their actual weekly
meals for their dog? I can find lots on what types of things to feed
- but i am kind of wanting a plan to follow for the first week or two
to kick me off. Any suggestions would be great.

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Whole turkeys
Posted by: "kjdaughtridge" kjdaughtridge@yahoo.com kjdaughtridge
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:28 am ((PDT))

I got a good deal on turkeys so I decided to feed the whole bird,
intact, over the course of several days. Previously, I've always fed
pieces that were "meal-sized," so I am exited to give them
a "bigger" experience. (At this moment, they are out in the yard
with their birds, doing a lot of licking and pulling at skin--they
know they want it, but can't quite figure out how to eat it--but
that's not my question.)

I got the biggest birds I could find, since there was a limit of two
per purchase. So my question is, How long can I keep hauling these
things out to feed before they are even too ripe for the dogs. For
example, my greyhound is about 90 pounds and needs about 3lbs/day to
maintain his optimal weight. His bird is about 24 pounds so it could
take him 8 days to finish it. My other dog is a 65 lb GSD mix, who
needs about 1.5 lbs/day. With a 20-ish pound turkey, that should
last him a couple of weeks.

Also, any hints on how to gauge when they've had enough for a meal?
These are both dogs that would keep eating until they exploded so I
can't count on them to let me know when they're full.

Thanks! --Kathleen D

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Whole turkeys
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:58 am ((PDT))

Kathleen,
It depends on several things. The weather, how long they stay in the
yard, your nose and the dogs nose. I feed stuff to my dogs (right now
a Pitbull and 2 Chihuahuas) as long as they will eat it and I can
stand it. As to the regulating how much they are eating: I have two
self regulaters and a glutton. I thought the glutton would eat til she
popped. Turns out that she eats until she is just this side exploding.
I mean she looks like she is gonna whelp a litter of 10 puppies at any
moment kinda full. Mind you this is a 5lb Chihuahua. I don't weigh my
dogs food, but one day I'm gonna get a bathroom scale and weigh her
before one of her Roman Bachanalian Eat Fests and after, just to see
the weight difference. Anyway, the next day she just lays around and
sleeps a lot and I don't feed her. Amazingly enough, she will if you
let her. If she still resembles a slightly deflated beachball with
legs the next day, I might give her a snack size meal and leave it at
that. Then feed again the next day when she looks like her normal
svelte self. The other two eat what they want everyday. I've seen some
dogs start to self-regulate on their own after a few gorge type
feedings. Not Sweetie though, if you put it in front of her, she will
try to eat it. Strangely enough, this is a dog that I've had since she
was a couple of months old (she's 9 now) and she has never done
without, the self-regulators are a dog that was rescued off of the
streets starving and a dog that was dropped in the night box at a
nearby shelter. Sweetie doesn't eat this way every day, but, pretty
often as I'm lazy and don't have the desire or time to portion out
pork shoulder roasts and such. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kjdaughtridge" <kjdaughtridge@...>
wrote:
How long can I keep hauling these things out to feed before they are
even too ripe for the dogs.... Also, any hints on how to gauge when
they've had enough for a meal? These are both dogs that would keep
eating until they exploded so I can't count on them to let me know
when they're full.
Thanks! --Kathleen D

Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: Whole turkeys
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:36 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kjdaughtridge" <kjdaughtridge@...>
wrote:
> Also, any hints on how to gauge when they've had enough for a meal?
> These are both dogs that would keep eating until they exploded so I
> can't count on them to let me know when they're full.

Hi Kathleen,
My dogs first big meal was turkey, also, last year at Thanksgiving.
You can always count on your dogs to let you know when they are full;
its just that your definition of full is probably going to be a whole
lot different than theirs. When your dogs quit eating, they are full.
If you take the food away while they are still eating and you gauge
that they should be full, well, they are not full. Different
definitions of full is all. If you have been raw feeding for awhile, i
would like to offer up the idea that you let them tell you when they
are full and let them eat till they stop eating. If your dogs are new
to raw, i think you should still regulate how much they eat. KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: Supplement?
Posted by: "Shirley" ssthunderpony@yahoo.com ssthunderpony
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:58 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "trayc2244" <BreeZ119@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> If my dog rarely gets fish in his diet, is it appropriate to
> supplement with fish oil capsules? And if so, what is the best to
buy?
>
> Thanks,
> Tracy

######## Tracy, If you cannot get the correct fish , not just ANY
fish , that will supply
Omega 3's you can feed fish body oil in caps.

they are very reasonable and found easily at any vitamin counter (
walmart for one , is good for cold water salmon oil caps).

Most meat we feed is fed on grains in a feedlot and are almost
devoid of O 3's.
If you are lucky enough to feed grass fed meat you already have O
3's in the meat.

O 3 oil as a bottled liquid is expensive and you run the risk of it
becoming rancid once opened to the air and it begins to
oxidize ,unless it has preservatives
in
it but then you would not want to feed it anyway.

It is simple to feed oil caps.
to start ............ just prick it with a sharp knife or
snip the end carefully just enough so some oozes out and your dog can
taste it. Before long you can just toss the cap to the dog right out
of the bottle.

My GSDs love them as a treat just as the chicken feet
they get every evening. Geeze, even when I open my own vitamin bottle
they hear it and come running thinking it is something for
them .....lol

Cheers,
Shirley and the Kitchen Wolves

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: Scratching
Posted by: "Shirley" ssthunderpony@yahoo.com ssthunderpony
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:24 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "raeminpin24" <raeminpin24@...>
wrote:
> not read the last question I have 3 dogs that this friday I
started on
> raw and now I noticed last night that my german pinscher is
scraching a
> lot, could this be the weather as she came from New Jersey to Pa or
is

######## Hi Rae, it can take several weeks or months with some dogs
to get their digestive system running full speed coming out of the
pathetic state it was in digesting kibble.

My silly Kitchen Wolves seem to like grass sometimes so I just let
them do what they want.

The scratching is allergies to 'something' either indoor or outdoor
environment , vaccines, drugs , worming poisons, anti flea/tick
nerve agents or diet.

Dogs are not allergic to raw meat ! ! !

Remember that allergies and other chronic diseases do not 'suddenly'
appear , they have been long at work before you finally see them
surface in many different ways.

HTH,
Shirley & the Kitchen Wolves

Messages in this topic (9)
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6a. New at this... Need advice...
Posted by: "barkingcantaloupe" CTbarbuto@comcast.net barkingcantaloupe
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:22 am ((PDT))

I am trying my best to read archives and other Internet sources, but
there is a lot of info out there to absorb, so I apologize in advance
if this has been asked/answered before. I transitioned my small Bichon-
mix off of kibble and onto Oma's Pride pre-made mixes over the last few
weeks. Everything seems fine. Under direction of a friend, I gave my
dog a breakfast of chicken necks this morning. I also have a marrow
bone defrosting in my fridge.

My questions are:
1) Is it safe to give my dog chicken necks?
2) It seems the majority of people on this discussion group are against
marrow bones. What the heck do I give him if not marrow bones for
recreation?
3) It also seems that RMB is more M than B. Is this the case?
4) I saw a website with horror stories about raw bones getting stuck in
the dog's esphagus, mouth, etc. How is this prevented?
5) I am a vegetarian and have never prepared more than a chicken breast
and a steak for my husband. I have no idea what a "chicken back" is or
how to buy these types of things. How do I know what RMB to give my
dog?

I am far more confused than I was a week ago, due to all of the
different opinions in my area and on the Internet. HELP!

Thank you for your time,
Claudia

Messages in this topic (4)
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6b. Re: New at this... Need advice...
Posted by: "Anntiga@aol.com" Anntiga@aol.com anntiga
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:18 pm ((PDT))

Hi!

I have a 54 pound Portuguese Water Dog but what I will say will work for
your dog too.

1) Is it safe to give my dog chicken necks?
I would feed big chunks of raw meat and raw chicken breasts (cut the breast
into fourths), bone included, instead of chicken necks. Chicken necks don't
have a great deal of meat on them. I would never feed a dog my size chicken
necks because he could choke on them.

2) It seems the majority of people on this discussion group are against
marrow bones. What the heck do I give him if not marrow bones for
recreation?
Marrow bones can break teeth very easily. They are called "wreck Bones" on
this list. You can give your dog a marrow bone if you know the dog will not
try to chew it, and you watch your dog all the time. I do give my guy a
marrow bone each night. He gets the marrow out and is very happy. The second I
hear that he might be trying to eat the bone he gets the bone taken away. He
eats the marrow bone about five feet from me, I monitor him the entire time
he has the bone, and after he is done I throw it out.

3) It also seems that RMB is more M than B. Is this the case?
Yes, 80% raw meat, 10% organ meats and 10% raw bone. You can include a few
raw eggs in the raw meat percentage. If your dog wants to eat the shell that
is fine. My dog breaks the shell, eats the yoke and white part, then leaves
the shells to munch on throughout the day. This makes a mess so he just
gets the egg without the shell.

4) I saw a website with horror stories about raw bones getting stuck in
the dog's esophagus, mouth, etc. How is this prevented?
There are many horror sites that will try to scare you away from raw
feeding. Dogs choke on kibble and ground food also. My first dog was very ill when
I started feeding him raw. He thrived. My 19 month old has been on prey
model raw since 12 weeks old. Neither dog ever choked on a bone. Ask the list
an additional question about the specific bones to feed and the size for
your dog.

5) I am a vegetarian and have never prepared more than a chicken breast
and a steak for my husband. I have no idea what a "chicken back" is or
how to buy these types of things. How do I know what RMB to give my
dog?
The back is between the two breasts. The back and the neck are very bony.
I get whole chicken breasts, skin on, bone in. Cut the breasts in fourths or
ask the butcher to do so. If you are feeding the back, feed as part of
the breast and not as a separate piece.

For what kind of meats to get check out the following website:
_http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes_ (http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes)

Click on any of the "recipes." You will see a picture of what the meat
looks like and how it should be fed.

Neither of my dogs were ever weaned to raw feeding. Both were switched cold
turkey (no pun intended) and they both did great. My first dog, as I said,
was very ill, and had Inflammatory Bowel Disease. Switching with no
transition did not cause him any problems.

Good luck. Keep asking questions. Feeding your dog prey model raw is the
best thing you can do for him.

Ann
Norman (19 month old PWD) and Angel Scamp
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

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Messages in this topic (4)
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6c. Re: New at this... Need advice...
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:53 pm ((PDT))

Claudia,

Once you begin feeding some nice whole meaty parts to your dog, you will
probably find he won't need recreational bones at all. Ground up mixes and
an occasional chicken neck are not going to be very satisfying or provide
much in the way of exercise or enjoyment. Food should provide more than
nutrition.

Chicken necks are too small for most dogs...in any case, they are far too
bony, especially when offered with a premade mix which is already high in
bone content and lacking meat and fat. If anything, you would want to add
nice large, consuming chunks of meat. Overall you'd do better by just
dumping the Oma's and start feeding your guy "real" food! :) So for now,
go buy a whole chicken, cut into serving sized portions and hand to dog. As
he adjusts to digesting the chicken, you will slowly begin adding in
variety, lots of nice red meat and some organs.

Ignore the horror stories......if even a fraction of them were true, I doubt
there would be 9929 members of this list and countless numbers of dogs
successfully being fed raw. Stick around here where you will hear facts,
read through rawfed.com and the myths section. That will help in allaying
your fears! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "barkingcantaloupe" <CTbarbuto@comcast.net>

My questions are:
1) Is it safe to give my dog chicken necks?
2) It seems the majority of people on this discussion group are against
marrow bones. What the heck do I give him if not marrow bones for
recreation?
3) It also seems that RMB is more M than B. Is this the case?
4) I saw a website with horror stories about raw bones getting stuck in
the dog's esphagus, mouth, etc. How is this prevented?
5) I am a vegetarian and have never prepared more than a chicken breast
and a steak for my husband. I have no idea what a "chicken back" is or
how to buy these types of things. How do I know what RMB to give my
dog?

Messages in this topic (4)
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6d. Re: New at this... Need advice...
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:01 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "barkingcantaloupe" <CTbarbuto@...>
wrote:

Hi Claudia and welcome,
> 1) Is it safe to give my dog chicken necks?

Chicken necks are too small to feed to all but the tiniest of dogs.
Since you didn't mention what size dogs you are feeding, i wouldn't
say don't feed them because of their size, but because they are too
bony to be really useful.

> 2) It seems the majority of people on this discussion group are against
> marrow bones. What the heck do I give him if not marrow bones for
> recreation?

I don't own a kong, but lots of people stuff them with frozen ground
beef for your dog's entertainment. Since most marrow bones that you
see sold in grocery stores are stripped naked of all meat, they are
inadvisable to feed because of tooth wear and breakage. Some people,
however, are able to feed leg bones with meat still covering the bones
and then toss the bone when it becomes a bare naked bone. If you are
worried about your dogs because they like to chew stuff, i think
you'll find that a lot of that energy will be drained by eating their
raw food.

> 3) It also seems that RMB is more M than B. Is this the case?

Absolutely, positively, 100% it is the case. A typical prey animal
that a wolf would eat, on average, is 80% meat. That's a lot of meat
compared to 10% bone. The other 10% would be the organs. While those
are just numbers, they are useful to help feed your dog
proportionately balanced meals over time.

> 4) I saw a website with horror stories about raw bones getting stuck in
> the dog's esphagus, mouth, etc. How is this prevented?

I would guess that is precisely what they are-stories-fiction-not
fact. Of course a dog can choke on anything, kibble, a tennis ball, a
sock..so i would never say never, but if it were a frequent occurrence
the wolf, whom our dogs are a direct descendant of, would be extinct.
What could be safer than feeding a species appropriate diet to the
species.

> 5) I am a vegetarian and have never prepared more than a chicken breast
> and a steak for my husband. I have no idea what a "chicken back" is or
> how to buy these types of things. How do I know what RMB to give my
> dog?

Here is a link to a list that Cris O posted from a while ago. I used
this list the first few times i went shopping. I saved it to help
others and just recently found it hidden away in my folder.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/113215

HTH, KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. upset tummy
Posted by: "katherine dutcher" katherinedutcher@hotmail.com dutcher_katherine
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:19 pm ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!!

Hi, Im sorry if this topic has been addressed before but there is just so much information on the group page. I am planning on transitiong my doggies to raw and am doing it slowly. They currently eat wellness core and nature's variety kibble. I have strated feeding RMBs three nights a week. They get skinless bone in chicken breasts or thighs since I read chicken is a nice bland RMB for beginniers. I know not to add any new protein sources for a while, but Im not really sure how long to wait. They also have a little dirrarhea which i know is normal when you are starting a new food. Im wondering how long it will take to go away. Especially since Im now feeding RMBs only three nights a week friday saturday and wednesday Im wondering if these days are spaced to far apart for them to adjust to the raw. do I need to do a raw dinner every night? Id rather start a few days a week first and then transition to every night and then to every meal. Thanks
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Messages in this topic (10)
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7b. Re: upset tummy
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:36 pm ((PDT))

Before even thinking about adding in other sources of protein, you need to
dump the kibble and begin feeding totally raw. You are not doing your dogs
any favors by continuing kibble and you aren't going to know how well they
are digesting the chicken and when to move on until you rid their system of
all those carbohydrates.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "katherine dutcher" <katherinedutcher@hotmail.com>

Hi, Im sorry if this topic has been addressed before but there is just so
much information on the group page. I am planning on transitiong my doggies
to raw and am doing it slowly. They currently eat wellness core and
nature's variety kibble. I have strated feeding RMBs three nights a week.
They get skinless bone in chicken breasts or thighs since I read chicken is
a nice bland RMB for beginniers. I know not to add any new protein sources
for a while, but Im not really sure how long to wait. They also have a
little dirrarhea which i know is normal when you are starting a new food.
Im wondering how long it will take to go away. Especially since Im now
feeding RMBs only three nights a week friday saturday and wednesday Im
wondering if these days are spaced to far apart for them to adjust to the
raw. do I need to do a raw dinner every night? Id rather start a few days
a week first and then transition to every night and then to every meal.
Thanks

Messages in this topic (10)
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7c. Re: upset tummy
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:01 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, katherine dutcher
<katherinedutcher@...> wrote:
>Id rather start a few days a week first and then transition to every
night and then to every meal.

Hi,
I know that you think that you are doing the right thing for both you
and your dog by preceding at this pace, but, even though it sounds
safer to you or more logical, you are actually making the transition
harder for yourself and your dog. It is best to just jump right in,
take that leap of faith, ditch the kibble completely, and just feed
the chicken. KathyM

Messages in this topic (10)
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7d. Re: upset tummy
Posted by: "dutcher_katherine" katherinedutcher@hotmail.com dutcher_katherine
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:43 pm ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!

Everything I read online has suggested a gradual transition. Until
joinign this website. I also got lots of advice from raw feeders on
the dogster forum to feed RMBs for tooth cleaning. Dont some people
combine kibble and raw (at seperate meals)---
In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, katherine dutcher
> <katherinedutcher@> wrote:
> >Id rather start a few days a week first and then transition to every
> night and then to every meal.
>
> Hi,
> I know that you think that you are doing the right thing for both you
> and your dog by preceding at this pace, but, even though it sounds
> safer to you or more logical, you are actually making the transition
> harder for yourself and your dog. It is best to just jump right in,
> take that leap of faith, ditch the kibble completely, and just feed
> the chicken. KathyM
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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7e. Re: upset tummy
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:49 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dutcher_katherine"
<katherinedutcher@...> wrote:
> Dont some people
> combine kibble and raw (at seperate meals)---

Hi,
Yes, some people do combine them. Some people feed just kibble. Some
people cook meat for their dogs and make homemade dog food. Some
people feed pre made raw patties. I guess what i think is that just
because some people do it doesn't mean that it is right or that it is
what is best for a dog. I think the question would better be asked,
"What would be the advantage of combining kibble and raw?" If you
asked me that i could say with all sincerity, nothing. Just because it
can be done that way doesn't mean it should be done that way. The
best way to feed a species is with the diet the species was designed
to eat. Mixing the two only detracts from the diet and adds nothing.
I don't mean to sound "soap boxy," and i apologize if i do. Its
just that you are sooo close to making the best choice for your dog by
feeding an all raw diet. KathyM

Messages in this topic (10)
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8a. Prey Model and some other questions
Posted by: "Caitlin" caitlin@baileyridgedogs.com fancyfacepoms
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:01 pm ((PDT))

I'm still fairly new at this but I am LOVING being a part of this list!

I've been feeding my two Poms the premades from Northwest Naturals,
Nature's Variety, and Oma's... but I've been seeing a lot of posts
pertaining to feeding in a prey model way. Can you guys describe that a
little further or provide me with some links? Is prey model feeding the
"standard" 80% meat 10% bone 10% organ ratio, or is there much more
involved?

Also, if there's any other links you guys could point me in the
direction of, that would be WONDERFUL. I'm assuming I can find a bunch
in the files on yahoogroups?

Another thing...

Lindsay, my 6 year old Pom is quite the gulper. I either have to hold
onto what she eats to make sure she chews, or cut everything up pretty
fine (hence why at the moment we're doing the ground premix). I gave her
some chicken gizzards a while back and she nearly choked on it which was
a very frightening situation for me... so I'm a little gun-shy with her.
My boy, Kyler, is kind of what I would consider the "dream" raw dog.. he
knows when to stop eating, he chews, he minds his own business... while
Lindsay is the nightmare! Eats super fast, doesn't chew, very food
aggressive (we're working on that...) and as soon as she finishes she
tries her hardest to steal Kyler's through the crate. Anything you could
suggest with either the food aggression or the gulping? Like I said,
I've tried holding her food (she HATES that and usually tries to get my
fingers) and feeding her things that are partially thawed so she has to
chew... but when it's only partially thawed she won't even touch it. I
want to get her off of ground meats, but there are times when I'm
working and my parents feed the dogs for me, and I don't want her
choking on something when they're the only ones here with the dogs and
have no idea what to do.

Thanks in advance,

Caitlin
BaileyRidge Poms

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. Re: Prey Model and some other questions
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:54 pm ((PDT))

Caitlin,

Prey model is just as it sounds...feeding according to the natural prey of a
carnivore. The majority of their diet consists of large ungulates which are
approximately 80% meat, 10% edible bone and 10% organs. It's just that
simple! :)

In contrast ground up mixtures generally contain too much bone, not enough
meat or fat, various ingredients which are of no benefit (fruits, veggies
and supplements) and provide no exercise, tooth cleaning or lasting
satisfaction as they are gulped in a few seconds.

To slow down a gulper, you want to feed large portions of food....chicken
quarters, various roasts, racks of ribs, etc.
When feeding ground, there is nothing to chew...and as you can see, holding
the food is counterproductive. She's trying to get that food as quickly as
possible for fear you are going to take it away from her.

Read through rawfed.com and the rawfeeding myths.
http://rawfed.com/myths/preymodel.html - description of prey model
http://rawfed.com/myths/ground.html - ground vs. whole foods
http://rawfed.com/myths/index.html
http://rawfed.com/
http://www.RawFedDogs.net/ - check out the Recipe section

And here are some cute pictures of small dogs and puppies eating nice large
meals! :))
http://homepage.mac.com/rhbmgmt/PhotoAlbum14.html
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=7040435&uid=171870&members=1
http://i5.tinypic.com/14ybct1.jpg
http://rawfed.com/myths/toybreeds.html

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Caitlin" <caitlin@baileyridgedogs.com>
>
> I've been feeding my two Poms the premades from Northwest Naturals,
> Nature's Variety, and Oma's... but I've been seeing a lot of posts
> pertaining to feeding in a prey model way. Can you guys describe that a
> little further or provide me with some links? Is prey model feeding the
> "standard" 80% meat 10% bone 10% organ ratio, or is there much more
> involved?
>
> Also, if there's any other links you guys could point me in the
> direction of, that would be WONDERFUL. I'm assuming I can find a bunch
> in the files on yahoogroups?
>
> Another thing...
>
> Lindsay, my 6 year old Pom is quite the gulper. I either have to hold
> onto what she eats to make sure she chews, or cut everything up pretty
> fine (hence why at the moment we're doing the ground premix).

Messages in this topic (3)
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8c. Re: Prey Model and some other questions
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:03 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Caitlin <caitlin@...> wrote:
Is prey model feeding the
> "standard" 80% meat 10% bone 10% organ ratio, or is there much more
> involved?

Hi Caitlin,
Yep, its that easy. I could take it down a notch and say to feed a
variety of parts from a variety of critters and over time, all will be
well. The diet only seems harder initially because our dogs are use
to eating inappropriate food, kibble, and we are use to thinking in
inappropriate ways in regard to feeding. After the transition is
made, digestive for the dog and concepts for his person, its very simple.

> Lindsay, my 6 year old Pom is quite the gulper. I either have to hold
> onto what she eats to make sure she chews, or cut everything up pretty
> fine......

The solution is to feed bigger pieces. Feed Lindsay pieces that are
bigger than the size of her head. There is no way she can gulp it
down then. Actually, holding on to food for a dog makes them worse
because they feel like they need to grab the whole thing and get it
away from you. Small pieces rob a dog of the dental benefits that
come with a raw diet. I think that if you feed bigger pieces and
relax and don't crowd over Lindsay when she eats she'll do just fine.
After a few meals, i think you will be comfortable enough with the
situation to leave the dogs with your parents at feeding time. I'm
happy you are so happy to be here. Its way nice to meet you, KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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9. Turkey necks and legs
Posted by: "Patty Linden" pattykat3@yahoo.com pattykat3
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:43 pm ((PDT))

Hi,
I am so impressed with the knowledge in this list -- am new to raw feeding, and have a couple of questions about feeding turkey. My 13 lb. pom began eating raw about a month ago. Because he has had 3 attacks of pancreatitis since I adopted him 3 years ago, I kept him on chicken for the first 3-4 weeks, not wanting to introduce a new protein source too quickly. I then found some nice, big turkey necks on sale a week ago. He loves chewing on it. I do give him cut up chicken breast with this. My question is, is it wise for me to be feeding him a turkey neck? I have read in a number of places, including this list, that turkey necks can be dangerous. Would that just apply to dogs bigger than a pom? The other question is--what about turkey legs. The bone looks quite large and hard. Is there a danger he could either damage his teeth on it, or perhaps choke? Sorry if these are silly questions--I just want to make sure. Thank you for any advice-- :-) Patty

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Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: More reasons to go raw!
Posted by: "marlena_adema" marlena_adema@yahoo.ca marlena_adema
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:43 pm ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!!!

Three weeks ago I adopted a 6 mos. old Shepard mix from a shelter.
Since I got her, I have been doing soooooo much research on the
internet - mostly to learn about this 'raw meaty bone diet'. (I
have concluded that it's the best thing I can do for my girl and she
has been on it for a week now.) This site is a great source of
information and I really appreciate the free exchange of ideas and
advice.

My research has taken me in so many directions, following links and
such. One thing I have learned is it seems everything is a
controversy! Some people thinking raw feeding is crazy and think WE
are radical, some dog training websites say Cesar Milan is nuts etc
etc. I agree with you Shannon, you have take it all with a grain of
salt, and I suspect I had an emotional reaction to that website when
I stumbled upon it. (Anything that even smells of animal cruelty
and I react!) Pardon my naivete, but could this organization make
such strong accusations and just get away it? Where there is smoke
blah blah blah...

Regardless, it wasn't my intention to use this site to get
controversial. I'm new and am learning my way. Thanks for the
feedback.

Messages in this topic (4)
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11. backward??
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:43 pm ((PDT))

Spencer was doing great with the raw diet, but he's taken a down turn in
terms of his skin/coat lately. Itching, scratching, kind of dull, almost
powdering, singed looking coat in parts, and he smells like chee-tos.

Seems yeasty to me, but why yeasty on meat? No grains or veggies (except
extremely once in awhile a bite of raw carrot or apple or something he'll find
outdoors etc). I'm giving him fish oil capsules (no soy) and he's on
soloxine .3 mg (is that right?) daily (1.5 2x day) per Dr. Dodds.

He has heartworms too (it's been almost two years since diagnosis).

I bathe him in Dr. B's lavendar and rinse with apple cider vinegar or lemon
solution. Using the lemon solution and/or aloe on the most aggravated areas.
Both seem to help. He's worse in dampness and also licks sometimes just
out of habit I think (?). He can be interrupted and doesn't seem to try to get
at himself when he's wearing the e-collar.

I thought th diet would help more???

Carol

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Messages in this topic (1)
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