[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12212

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: More reasons to go raw!
From: Shannon Parker
1b. Re: More reasons to go raw!
From: jennifer_hell

2a. Re: Pig feet
From: moemahood@aol.com
2b. Re: Pig feet
From: carolejc2007

3a. Re: 8 year old with sugar
From: Laurie Swanson
3b. Re: 8 year old with sugar
From: raeminpin24
3c. Re: 8 year old with sugar
From: Giselle

4a. Re: Sweet Breads, Spleen & Tongue ...yum yum?
From: Laurie Swanson
4b. Re: Sweet Breads, Spleen & Tongue ...yum yum?
From: costrowski75

5.1. Deer
From: susrob061174
5.2. Re: Deer
From: carnesbill
5.3. Re: Deer
From: susrob061174

6.1. Re: Feeding Fish
From: Shelly
6.2. Re: Feeding Fish
From: Yasuko herron

7a. Re: Vet is horrified
From: Finster Boy

8a. Re: best suppliers?
From: costrowski75
8b. Re: best suppliers?
From: T Smith

9a. Re: Marrow bone question
From: T Smith

10a. Re: Why is Liver so important?
From: Yasuko herron
10b. Re: Why is Liver so important?
From: jennifer_hell

11a. Day #3 of Raw Feeding
From: Lynette
11b. Re: Day #3 of Raw Feeding
From: Denise Strother

12a. Please help with Stool issues (sorry so graphic)
From: ri_bulldogs
12b. Re: Please help with Stool issues (sorry so graphic)
From: Denise Strother
12c. Re: Please help with Stool issues (sorry so graphic)
From: amvilppu

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: More reasons to go raw!
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:30 am ((PDT))

Hi Marlena,

I don't want to start a holy war on animal ethics, I just want to play the devils advocate for a second and point out that you have to consider the source of the information. I'm not advocating animal testing by kibble companies, especially since it is such an inappropriate and unnecessary way to feed, but keep in mind that the animal rights groups often post for shock value, without actual facts. I agree, that if we could get everyone to feed raw, there would be no need for kibble companies with resort to testing, but posting extreme sites such as the ones you did, are based on an advocacy group trying to shock and upset the reader, not necessarily on fact.

Shannon

p.s. I have no urge to turn this into a debate, just asking readers to use common sense when they go onto these sites. Also, I know this will be thrown into cyberspace by the moderators pretty soon as it is OT.

marlena_adema <marlena_adema@yahoo.ca> wrote:
+++Mod note: don't forget to sign your emails ++++++++++++

I just read some very disturbing stuff about the cruelty animals go
thru in the name of research by well known pet food companies! Those
warm and fuzzy commercials are but a shameful cover for the cruelty
they inflict on our furry brethren!! If anyone needs yet another
reason (other than the health of your pet) to go raw - check this
out: http://www.uncaged.co.uk/iams.htm
http://www.uncaged.co.uk/petfood.htm

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Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: More reasons to go raw!
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:51 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Shannon Parker <mrbatisse@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Marlena,
>
> I don't want to start a holy war on animal ethics, I just want to
play the devils advocate for a second and point out that you have to
consider the source of the information.
>
Good point. I answered Marlena too, but my post wasn't allowed, it
seems- I'll try again: if you feed meat from chicken mills and other
animals that are not free range, you feed animals who had a pretty
horrible life.
Anywho- we all agree that k*bble is bad, and that this should be in
RawChat. Lol!

Jennifer

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Pig feet
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:31 am ((PDT))

If you saw sliced feet, I recommend you ask for or keep looking for
unsliced feet that will be a greater challenge to you dog.

The other thing is most of the pig feet I have found in the stores are pickled.....so high fat and sodium.? My dogs loved them, but after I realized what I was feeding I quit.? Then I got my hands on real raw pigs feet and my two turned their noses up at them.....go figure.

?Maureen

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Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: Pig feet
Posted by: "carolejc2007" mooska2me@sbcglobal.net carolejc2007
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:35 am ((PDT))

EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.

My fur kids love chewing on pigs feet. I can throw one out in the
back yard and the first one to it enjoys it for a while, walks off
and another will take up where the first one left off. It will last
a couple of days before it is either all eaten or gets too nasty and
needs to be thrown away. It is a great past time and gives them
chewers a great work out. I can fide whole pigs feet at the local
hispanic market.

Carole (Mom of 2 Greyhounds and 2 Italian Greys)

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: 8 year old with sugar
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:33 am ((PDT))

Hi Rae,

Just a few thoughts on the diabetes to consider (keeping in mind I do
not have specific experience with dogs with this disease, but my dog
has had some minor pancreatitis issues)...make sure you're not feeding
too much overall. Since you're doing 2% of body weight per day, that
sounds good, or even a bit low for a toy dog (that's my recollection,
sorry if I'm remembering wrong). Are you feeding once per day, then?
Most people say you may need to feed smaller meals more frequently, but
there is also the idea that dogs are evolved/designed to eat less often
and that it stresses the pancreas less to eat a bigger meal less often
(daily? every other day?). You'll have to research and do what you
feel most comfortable with.

You'll also probably want to feed easy on the fat. Trim off big hunks
of excess fat and skin for a bit and then add a little back in if
things are going well. Pork ribs and hamburger are usually quite
fatty. You might want to save those for trying later when things are
more stable, and then you can see how it goes when you add them in, if
you choose to. And feeding ground meat is harder for pancreas/sugar
issues because it's eaten so fast that the body doesn't have enough
time to get all the enzymes ready for digestion. Don't feed marrow
bones (really fatty). Bones from the butcher are usually not meaty
enough and often quite fatty. You can sometimes use some of them to
mix in with meatier meals.

You might want to do a little checking into which meats are leaner than
others. I can't remember the numbers, but rabbit, goat, emu, wild game
like deer and elk, chicken, and turkey are usually on the leaner side.
Beef, lamb, and pork are usually fattier. But if you can get grass-
fed, that will also help it be healthier fats.

Good luck,

Laurie

Messages in this topic (12)
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3b. Re: 8 year old with sugar
Posted by: "raeminpin24" raeminpin24@yahoo.com raeminpin24
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:33 am ((PDT))

EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Rae,
>
> Just a few thoughts on the diabetes to consider (keeping in mind I
do
> not have specific experience with dogs with this disease, but my
dog
> has had some minor pancreatitis issues>

Thank you so much for the time for your ideas.

Rae

Messages in this topic (12)
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3c. Re: 8 year old with sugar
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:53 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Rae!
This recent post from the archives might help you a bit;

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/143318

message # 153318
Also, exploring the archived messages on this page might offer some good
advice;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=diabetic+diabetes&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
*http://tinyurl.com/2l3xpm
*
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 10/27/07, raeminpin24 <raeminpin24@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ++++Mod note: don't forget to sign your emails +++++++++++
>
> Thank you for the website and I will read that today as 2 years ago
> my vet wanted to put her down and I said no I will do something for
> her then I read about this raw diet and what people are saying from
> my 1 pups breeder. I am willing to do anything.
>
> __
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
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4a. Re: Sweet Breads, Spleen & Tongue ...yum yum?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:34 am ((PDT))

Hi Annaliisa,

I haven't fed sweetbreads. My dog loves pork spleen--if it's in a
combo meal, it's always the first thing to go. I've fed beef tongue a
few times--it's very tough and chewy, and kind of on the fatty side.
He seems to like it.

Laurie

Messages in this topic (6)
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4b. Re: Sweet Breads, Spleen & Tongue ...yum yum?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:50 am ((PDT))

"amvilppu" <amvilppu@...> wrote:
What are Sweetbreads?
*****
Depends on who you read. I learned them to be thymus gland.

Does anyone feed spleen and tongue.
*****
I feed spleen a lot and tongue rarely. I have--through accident and an
alignment of plants--probably a lifetime supply of beef liver and
spleen. Beef spleen is really REALLY bloody, pork spleen is less so
and easier to distribute. My dogs have always liked spleen and
digested it well; as with any bloody food, stools will be dark and
generally loose. You might consider feeding spleen with something
bonier if you are not keen on (or set up for) loose black stools.

Tongue is dense and fatty and almost always too pricey for my budget.
It, too, will likely produce loose stools, but fatty, not blood dark.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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5.1. Deer
Posted by: "susrob061174" susrob061174@yahoo.com susrob061174
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:36 am ((PDT))

Hi guys and mostly Bill,

By the way Bill, we miss you on dol. I have a question. Deer season is
in and now all the hunters seem to be running what deer are in the
woods out. I live at a major deer crossing. Every once in a while a
deer does get hit. I look everyday and get lucky about every week.
Since I get so much deer and not have enough room in my dog's freeze.
My question is "Is it okay to let the dogs just eat and grouge
themselves after I skin the deer before actually freezing the meat. Thanks

Susanne, Courtney & The Danes

www.streborsgreatdanes.com

Life is grand when you love a Dane! Have you licked you Dane today?:P

Don't know, ask. Don't ask,wont know. No question is too stupid.

Messages in this topic (55)
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5.2. Re: Deer
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:34 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "susrob061174" <susrob061174@...>
wrote:
>
> I look everyday and get lucky about every week.
> Since I get so much deer and not have enough room in my
> dog's freeze.
> My question is "Is it okay to let the dogs just eat and grouge
> themselves after I skin the deer before actually freezing
> the meat.

No, what you do is UPS the deer down to me and I'll handle it for
you. :) :) :) ... Actually, I would do exactly what you said. If
your freezer is full, just open the carcass up and let the dogs go
at it. You COULD leave the carcass out for a couple of days,
depending on the weather. Lucky you!! Good to hear from you. :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (55)
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5.3. Re: Deer
Posted by: "susrob061174" susrob061174@yahoo.com susrob061174
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

Well, not even ten minutes of getting off the internet and posting. My
father-in-law come down to tell me a nice size deer was on the side of
the road. Much to my surpise, it was about a 190lb six point buck. No
husband to be around, so I to drag the deer to the house and pulled in
the back yard on by myself with the help of the truck. What a shame,
pretty one too!!!. I did what you said Bill. The dogs loved it and I'm
sure they enjoyed it too. Have you ever seen Redquins and one red
brindle? I should have taken pictures, but cant you imagine, 4
Harlequins going at it covered in red. All getting baths tonight.

Well, you dont live too far Bill, your more than welcome too have
soon. LOL!!! Thats if the dogs dont eat it all.

Susanne, Courtney & The Danes

Messages in this topic (55)
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6.1. Re: Feeding Fish
Posted by: "Shelly" StuartLittle@comcast.net stuartjeanlittle
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:36 am ((PDT))

I don't feed canned salmon, but I do keep some in my emergency kit, the kind
with the bone still in it, I figure if there's a big enough emergency that we
have to evacuate, it's a good enough source of protien for all of us (dogs
and people) on a temporary basis.

Shelly

cynthia iparraguirre <cyn7711@...> wrote:
I have found canned salmon at a very, very reasonable price, but is it good to
feed?
*****
"A house without either a cat or a dog is the house of a scoundrel."

Portuguese Proverb

Messages in this topic (38)
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6.2. Re: Feeding Fish
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:07 pm ((PDT))

Hi. Canned fish is good to keep in closet for time you forgot defrost etc.

You can feed canned Jack Mackerral/Salmon/sardine packed in water not in oil not in tomato sauce or other spicey sauce etc.

You can pour the water out from can and feed.

14oz can has actual 12oz of fish (salmon/mackerral)

3.75oz can of sardine has 3 oz of actual fish in it.

if you worry about salt in water,just rinse them throughly and feed.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (38)
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7a. Re: Vet is horrified
Posted by: "Finster Boy" finster_boy1@yahoo.com finster_boy1
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:36 am ((PDT))

Ursula- I just went thru a similar experience w/ my dog. I gave him
something off raw diet and he ended up w/ bloody diarreah. A trip to
the vet was almost a waste- he dx'd colitis and he blamed the raw diet,
and pushed the i/d. I tried to pin down the little pinhead about what
he thought was in the raw diet that was causing "colitis"...he said the
fat. So we looked at the ingredient list of i/d and guess what was in
it? Animal fat! I declined, also, and can't go back to him because he
says I'm non-compliant with his recomedations!

Anyway, I fasted my dog for less then 2 days. I was going to try to
give him the boiled chicken (he spits out rice) and only boiled it for
a minute so it was still raw in the middle. He ate that fine and the
next meal he refused it. So I gave him some raw chicken breast and he
ate fine. I was also giving him homeopathic remedies and glutamine and
a digestive enzyme to help him heal from this episode.

He went back on raw a few days after the diarreah and has been back on
raw ever since-altho only chicken right now. And his stools are once
again firm and dark-it's a beautiful thing! LOL
Hope this helps!
Patricia

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: best suppliers?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:09 am ((PDT))

"amvilppu" <amvilppu@...> wrote:
> Anyone give you grief about only feeding meat, organs and bone?
*****
As far as I can recall (which ain't too far these days), these are the
griefs I have gotten:

--from Billinghurstians and others who feed raw but are unclear on the
wolf/carnivore thing: veggie and grain grief.

--from kibblefeeders: death by diet grief.

--from feeders of cooked or prefab food: supplement grief.

--from my husband: too many freezers grief. Also stinky meat grief.

--from a certified nutritionist from UCDavis School of Vet Medicine:
balanced diet grief.

My husband, I deal with. The others? Pfft.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (11)
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8b. Re: best suppliers?
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:21 am ((PDT))

I would ask you, why worry about what others think if you know what you are
doing is right.
Trina

"amvilppu" <amvilppu@...> wrote:
> > Anyone give you grief about only feeding meat, organs and bone?
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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9a. Re: Marrow bone question
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:21 am ((PDT))

Hi Rae!
Yes, those would be the kind we feed for treats. With 300+ pounds of puppy
running aorund wrestling in the house on a rainy day, it's a great
distraction & 'relax' time for them (and us!)
They love them & like to rip off the meat but it takes work so it pulls
through their teeth alot. I assume that does some teeth 'flossing' :-)
Trina & the dane pups

On 10/27/07, raeminpin24 <raeminpin24@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
>
> > *****
> > Where do you find marrow bones with pullable meat on them?
> > Chris O
> >
>
> I get really nice ones at our local meat market (butcher shop) and
> they pull the meat off chew them for a while then toss. T<snip>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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10a. Re: Why is Liver so important?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:07 pm ((PDT))

>I'm also a great believer in the power of Parmesean cheese. Cut the
liver into bite sized chunks and then sprinkle it on there.

Hi. I tried this method(parmesan cheese sprinkle on whateer dog does not touch),but it was failed method for my dog.

I did with catfish when I was trying to entice her to eat the fish,but whatshe did was only licking off the cheese off from the fish and kept going on strike not to eat it...

Each dog is different so,that may work for other dogs but not mine.Mine usually works when mixed with Egg.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (12)
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10b. Re: Why is Liver so important?
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:51 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
> whatshe did was only licking off the cheese off from the fish and
kept going on strike not to eat it...

Meh, that's what mine does too.

Jennifer with Mandy

Messages in this topic (12)
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11a. Day #3 of Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Lynette" lraefried@sbcglobal.net cherrysmomma
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:09 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

Cherry, 41 lbs, has done fine the past couple days. Though she is
tentative about grabbing the chick 1/4 and knawing, she mainly licks
for about 10min. and drags it around before eating. Is it OK for her
to eat part of it and leave it outside in the warm Texas sun for a few
hrs or so before finishing it?

Also, on the 3rd morning(today) she ignored her chicken and left it
outside till mid afternoon. Does this mean I am giving her too much
each day? I beleive each chick peice is a wee bit over a 1 lb. I do
not weigh it. I just took a 5 lb chick and 1/4rd it.

Thanks,
Lynette

Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: Day #3 of Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

Hi Lynette,
I'm in Texas too, Houston to be exact. I wouldn't worry about her
getting sick after eating chicken after it sat in the sun for a few
hours. I feed smelly meat, I've fed stuff that required airing the
house out after opening the ziplock bag. But, if my dogs haven't
started eating after about 15 minutes, I take the meal and put it into
the fridge until the next meal time. It sounds to me like your dog
just isn't that hungry. I'd just skip a meal and see if that improves
her appetite. I have a 48lb female Pit that is very active and will
still not be interested in an occaisional meal. It's no big deal as
long as they are not acting unusual in other ways. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Lynette" <lraefried@...> wrote:
Cherry, 41 lbs, has done fine the past couple days. Though she is
tentative about grabbing the chick 1/4 and knawing, she mainly licks
for about 10min. and drags it around before eating. Is it OK for her
to eat part of it and leave it outside in the warm Texas sun for a few
hrs or so before finishing it?
Also, on the 3rd morning(today) she ignored her chicken and left it
outside till mid afternoon. Does this mean I am giving her too much
each day? I beleive each chick peice is a wee bit over a 1 lb. I do
not weigh it. I just took a 5 lb chick and 1/4rd it.
Thanks,
Lynette

Messages in this topic (2)
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12a. Please help with Stool issues (sorry so graphic)
Posted by: "ri_bulldogs" ri_bulldogs@yahoo.com ri_bulldogs
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:51 pm ((PDT))

We started raw feeding the bulldogs on Tues. One of our boys now has
diarrhea. He has been fed a skinless chicken leg 1/4 each day. He had
no problems at all until this am. His stool was smaller but firm until
this morning and we were quite thrilled with the way things were
going. Now this am. his stool was softer and mucous covered (sorry for
being graphic but I want to be sure I cover the details)color was the
same as always. This afternoon he had an accident in the house (he has
not done this since he was trained) it was definately diarhea (loos
amost liquid consistency), there was quite a bit of mucous with it. No
blood no bones nothing else. This puppy never had any issues with
stool or anything else. He is drinking much less h2o since raw
feedings but I thought that maybe this is due to the moisture
content. None of the other 5 bulldogs are having this type of issue
though their stools are much smaller, firmer and less often. How
concerned should I be? What do I do from here?
Thanks
Becky

Messages in this topic (3)
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12b. Re: Please help with Stool issues (sorry so graphic)
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

Don't worry about being graphic on this list. You kinda have to be
on poop issues and such. And they do need less H2o on raw for
exactly the reason you figured. I wouldn't be very concerned at this
point. Just like us, their digestive systems vary from dog to dog.
You don't say how old this dog is or how much he weighs. Let us know
these things too. But, barring the issue of too much food, it could
be just one of those things. If he is acting his normal self, I
would skip a meal and see how things are tomorrow and go from there.
Glad the others are doing well. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ri_bulldogs" <ri_bulldogs@...>
wrote:
>
> We started raw feeding the bulldogs on Tues. One of our boys now
has
> diarrhea. He has been fed a skinless chicken leg 1/4 each day.
He had
> no problems at all until this am. His stool was smaller but firm
until
> this morning and we were quite thrilled with the way things were
> going. Now this am. his stool was softer and mucous covered
(sorry for
> being graphic but I want to be sure I cover the details)color was
the
> same as always. This afternoon he had an accident in the house
(he has
> not done this since he was trained) it was definately diarhea
(loos
> amost liquid consistency), there was quite a bit of mucous with
it. No
> blood no bones nothing else. This puppy never had any issues with
> stool or anything else. He is drinking much less h2o since raw
> feedings but I thought that maybe this is due to the moisture
> content. None of the other 5 bulldogs are having this type of
issue
> though their stools are much smaller, firmer and less often. How
> concerned should I be? What do I do from here?
> Thanks
> Becky
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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12c. Re: Please help with Stool issues (sorry so graphic)
Posted by: "amvilppu" amvilppu@hotmail.com amvilppu
Date: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:35 pm ((PDT))

Now this am. his stool was softer and mucous covered (sorry for
> being graphic but I want to be sure I cover the details)color was the
> same as always. This afternoon he had an accident in the house (he has
> not done this since he was trained) it was definately diarhea (loos
> amost liquid consistency), there was quite a bit of mucous with it. No
> blood no bones nothing else. This puppy never had any issues with
> stool or anything else.
None of the other 5 bulldogs are having this type of issue
> though their stools are much smaller, firmer and less often. How
> concerned should I be? What do I do from here?

I am not a raw expert as I am new to this too, but our pup has giardia right now and the
mucousy pooh and diarrhea are symptoms of giardia. It could just be transitioning to raw
but I would be skeptical since nothing has changed in the diet and the pup was tolerating it
fine. Others will have better advice, but I would monitor it and do stool sample to rule out
other factors if it persists. Good luck. Nothing worse that a pup not feeling well.

Annaliisa, Drew and Boxer pup Laila

Messages in this topic (3)
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