[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12204

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Hamburger???
From: nkayl
1b. Re: Hamburger???
From: Andrea
1c. Re: Hamburger???
From: nkayl
1d. Re: Hamburger???
From: cmhausrath
1e. Re: hot dogs/sausage (was Hamburger???)
From: Laurie Swanson
1f. Re: Hamburger???
From: costrowski75
1g. Re: Hamburger???
From: mousegirls
1h. Re: Hamburger???
From: mousegirls
1i. Re: Hamburger???
From: Morledzep@aol.com

2.1. Turkey necks
From: Patty Linden
2.2. Re: Turkey necks
From: Andrea

3a. Elk organs
From: Liz
3b. Re: Elk organs
From: Yasuko herron
3c. Re: Elk organs
From: costrowski75
3d. Re: Elk organs
From: moemahood@aol.com

4.1. Re: Now what?
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: Egg questions;which type of Eggs would you choose to feed if you
From: Yasuko herron
5b. Re: Egg questions;which type of Eggs would you choose to feed if you
From: Laurie Swanson

6a. Re: Two cats, different levels of transition
From: Andrea

7. Need advise on how to approach the subject of raw feeding
From: Kathy Tompson

8a. Re: Skin or not?
From: ri_bulldogs
8b. Re: Skin or not?
From: katkellm
8c. Re: Skin or not?
From: nkayl
8d. Re: Skin or not?
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: Need advice on how to approach the subject of raw feeding
From: Giselle

Messages
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1a. Hamburger???
Posted by: "nkayl" doglover72@gmail.com nkayl
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:00 pm ((PDT))

Someone on freecycle is offering me hamburger. I'm thinking it's not
something I want, but I wanted to check here first to make sure. Is
hamburger ok to give the dogs?

Natalie

Messages in this topic (9)
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1b. Re: Hamburger???
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT))

Heck yeah if it is for free! I don't spend doggy dollars on hamburger,
but I wouldn't turn it down. You can stuff kongs with it, stuff the
cavity of poultry with it and freeze it, etc.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nkayl" <doglover72@...> wrote:
>
> Someone on freecycle is offering me hamburger. I'm thinking it's not
> something I want, but I wanted to check here first to make sure. Is
> hamburger ok to give the dogs?

Messages in this topic (9)
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1c. Re: Hamburger???
Posted by: "nkayl" doglover72@gmail.com nkayl
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:15 pm ((PDT))

Oh, great idea with the Kong. Thanks!

So, it's ok to give them sausage and hotdogs then too? How about Blood
pudding? This lady is offering me all these things.

Natalie

Messages in this topic (9)
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1d. Re: Hamburger???
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:53 pm ((PDT))

"nkayl" <doglover72@...> wrote:

> Oh, great idea with the Kong. Thanks!

Hamburger -- or ground chicken, or turkey, or lamb, or whatever -- is
great inside Kongs. Especially if frozen, IME. While I don't find
that ground meat has much other purpose in my dog's diet, I do buy it
for this limited reason.

> So, it's ok to give them sausage and hotdogs then too? How about
Blood
> pudding?

BUT it's a jump to go from stuffing Kongs -- basically a treat or
entertaining toy -- with something that's basically just ground-up,
unseasoned, raw meat, all the way to ground-up, seasoned, salted,
perhaps cooked foods.

No sausages, no hot dogs, no blood pudding (or any other kind). As a
snippet, a special taste of something you're eating, a training
treat -- okay, fine. As a meal? Not appropriate.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (9)
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1e. Re: hot dogs/sausage (was Hamburger???)
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:09 pm ((PDT))

Hi Natalie,

I would pass on the sausage and hot dogs and any other seasoned meats
(hot dogs are also cooked, anyway)--they have way too much salt and
other ingredients that aren't healthy. I don't know what blood pudding
is. If you think you need to take it all or none, you can decide if
there's enough other stuff to make it worth it and just throw some of
it away when you get home. Or, just tell her you can only use
unseasoned meats due to your dog's allergies, or whatever.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nkayl" <doglover72@...> wrote:
> So, it's ok to give them sausage and hotdogs then too? How about
Blood
> pudding?

Messages in this topic (9)
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1f. Re: Hamburger???
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:37 pm ((PDT))

"nkayl" <doglover72@...> wrote:
Is
> hamburger ok to give the dogs?
*****
Sometimes, sure.
It's useful for hiding meds in.
It's useful for carnivores that can't for whatever reason rassle
with their meat.
It's useful mixed with tripe.

You can feed it in a block.
You can stuff it in a dock. (Okay, duck.)

But I think we all agree:
It's especially useful when it's free.

I don't feel freezer burn is a big deal but if the stuff is
defrosted and is just sitting out, I would be inclined to pasadena,
myself.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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1g. Re: Hamburger???
Posted by: "mousegirls" mousegirls@gmail.com ladysown
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:51 pm ((PDT))

hamburger...ground meat.
yes, not something you find in the wild, but meat none the less.
good for stuffing kongs, using as filler for bonier meats etc.

I use it whenever I am offered it. It's free! :)

nkayl wrote:
>
> Someone on freecycle is offering me hamburger. I'm thinking it's not
> something I want, but I wanted to check here first to make sure. Is
> hamburger ok to give the dogs?
>

--

annette
http://ladysown.blogspot.com/
http://agilitynut.wordpress.com/

"What a man is alone on his knees before God, that he is, and no more".-Robert Murray M'Cheyne
"I believe that prayer is the measure of the man, spiritually, in a way that nothing else is, so that how we pray is as important a question as we can ever face"- J.I. Packer

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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1h. Re: Hamburger???
Posted by: "mousegirls" mousegirls@gmail.com ladysown
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:51 pm ((PDT))

yes!
it's all free,
it's all edible
It's not like you are giving it all the time

only caution with teh sausage...if you have a dog that reacts poorly to
fat, restrict the amount of sausage given in one meal.

Hotdogs... up to you. I don't feed the really poor hotdogs because they
are 90% filler, but the others... go for it. :)

nkayl wrote:
>
> Oh, great idea with the Kong. Thanks!
>
> So, it's ok to give them sausage and hotdogs then too? How about Blood
> pudding? This lady is offering me all these things.
>
> Natalie
>
> __._,_._
annette
http://ladysown.blogspot.com/
http://agilitynut.wordpress.com/

"What a man is alone on his knees before God, that he is, and no more".-Robert Murray M'Cheyne
"I believe that prayer is the measure of the man, spiritually, in a way that nothing else is, so that how we pray is as important a question as we can ever face"- J.I. Packer

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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1i. Re: Hamburger???
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:47 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/25/2007 11:01:04 AM Pacific Standard Time,
doglover72@gmail.com writes:

Someone on freecycle is offering me hamburger. I'm thinking it's not
something I want, but I wanted to check here first to make sure. Is
hamburger ok to give the dogs?

Natalie,

Free is Free.. take it, smile and feed it to the dogs..

if you want to make it more interesting for the dogs, thaw it and make it
into meal size balls or sticks and refreeze and feed frozen..

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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2.1. Turkey necks
Posted by: "Patty Linden" pattykat3@yahoo.com pattykat3
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:00 pm ((PDT))

I am new to this group--have been feeding my 13 lb. Pomeranian raw food for a month now. I have been feeding him chicken (breasts, backs, started out with wings). He has been doing fine for the past several weeks on the chicken. I have tried offering a little chicken liver, but each time I do, it seems to give him diarrhea. The same with beef (I have given him beef rib bones)--which each time causes him to have a very black, very loose stool. For the past several days, he doesn't seem to want to eat the chicken--so I am trying turkey. I found some really nice, large turkey necks on sale, and he seems to love them. I know they have a lot of bone, so I plan on feeding him just some turkey meat for his second meal today. My question is--I have read that there is a chance of choking on turkey necks. Does this just apply to a dog larger than a 13 lb. pom? I love this list--have read lots of material on raw feeding, but you guys have been my best teachers!u
:-) Patty

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Messages in this topic (67)
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2.2. Re: Turkey necks
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:06 pm ((PDT))

> I have tried offering a little chicken liver, but each time I do,
> it seems to give him diarrhea.

With a little thing like your dog I would make sure you are giving
only a thumbnail's worth of liver at a time. Maybe try giving the
liver bit with a bonier meal to keep the loose stools away.

> The same with beef (I have given him beef rib bones)--which each
> time causes him to have a very black, very loose stool.

Beef is fattier, and ribs don't have much meat but they do have lots
of fat and sinew which will probably cause the loose stools.
Intensive chewing also seems to loosen up poo as well, so it might be
better to try a meatier piece of beef mixed in with a normal chicken
meal.

> For the past several days, he doesn't seem to want to eat the
> chicken--so I am trying turkey.

Variety is great, but make sure you are adding variety on your
schedule, not your dog's. Switching up proteins just because the dog
doesn't feel like eating what you give them isn't quite the answer,
you don't want to end up with a picky dog.

> I have read that there is a chance of choking on turkey necks.
> Does this just apply to a dog larger than a 13 lb. pom?

(= Yes, I believe a turkey neck is about the size of your pom, yes?
I don't consider anything a choking hazard unless the dog can try to
swallow it in one gulp.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (67)
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3a. Elk organs
Posted by: "Liz" tvliz24@izoom.net liztv2456
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:00 pm ((PDT))

My sister and her husband live on an elk farm and butcher a few elk a
couple times a year. They are going to save (for me) the stuff they
don't use, mostly the internal organs.

Are there any organs that you WOULD NOT use to feed dogs?

Thanks,
Liz
MN

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: Elk organs
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:15 pm ((PDT))

>Are there any organs that you WOULD NOT use to feed dogs?

Well...intestine and bladder maybe???

I am not sure about genital area...anybody feed it to dogs?

My dog occasionally get bully sticks(made from cow genital area) but that is only thing she gets made with genital stuff.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: Elk organs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:18 pm ((PDT))

"Liz" <tvliz24@...> wrote:

> Are there any organs that you WOULD NOT use to feed dogs?
*****
No.
Although there may be organs my dogs might reject, once fed.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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3d. Re: Elk organs
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:25 pm ((PDT))

I am not sure about genital area...anybody feed it to dogs?

I have fed pork fries which is pig testicles and my dogs really like them....

?Maureen

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Messages in this topic (4)
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4.1. Re: Now what?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT))

Please take all parasite and all vaccine discussion to RawChat or
DogHealth. The rawfeeding list is not (as in NOT) the place for these
topics.

Further non-diet postings to this thread will be deleted.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (29)
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5a. Re: Egg questions;which type of Eggs would you choose to feed if you
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:15 pm ((PDT))

>Perhaps try beating the raw egg and mixing it or pouring it over some other item she likes

Hi,Ginny. Thank you for your suggestion.

I know that brown egg and white egg is nutritionally same and justfrom different breed of chicken.

My problem was when I feed cage free Eggto palette (in thiscase,brown one),she gets loose poo. And,when I feed white egg (caged) ,she does well on it...

I am not sure why she torelates differently.

so,your suggestion is, pour tiny bit over several feeding til she gets better torelates?

She loooves Egg,so,she needs nothing to eat with to eat Egg.She loves Egg.only torelance prob.

If cooking it does not help building torelance,then,try little by little over several feeding then?

thank you

yassy

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Messages in this topic (7)
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5b. Re: Egg questions;which type of Eggs would you choose to feed if you
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:09 pm ((PDT))

Hi Yassy,

Maybe Palette is reacting to a difference in what the chickens are fed
(soy, corn, etc.). I think it would be hard to figure out the exact
reason.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:

> My problem was when I feed cage free Eggto palette (in
thiscase,brown one),she gets loose poo. And,when I feed white egg
(caged) ,she does well on it...
>
> I am not sure why she torelates differently.
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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6a. Re: Two cats, different levels of transition
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:16 pm ((PDT))

Well, my cats were big fans of canned tuna and canned cat food to
start with, so that was a big help. Cut the meat into tiny tiny
pieces and mix them in with a can of their regular food and let it
marinate overnight. The cats would eat the food if it smelled like
their regular food and was cut into tiny bits. Over several months I
would slowly increase the size of the bits until they were used to
eating chunks. Then over several more months I reduced the amount of
canned food that was mixed in until they would try meat all on its
own.

I'll also say that trying different kinds of meats is really
important with cats. I had to go through the whole rigamrol with
every kind of meat until I discovered the magic that is pork cheek.
All three cats went crazy for pork cheek and now all I have to do is
add some pork with a new protein and they *might* try it without
fussing.

Have you checked out the rawcat list? It's a list completely
dedicated to our finicky felines and everyone there has really
helpful ideas. That's where I learned to do the "Oops" way of
feeding. My most finicky cat will eat anything if I "accidentally"
drop it on the floor.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "persephoneinfall"
<persephoneinfall@...> wrote:
>
> Andrea,
> can you share any tips on how you transitioned the finicky cats?

Messages in this topic (4)
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7. Need advise on how to approach the subject of raw feeding
Posted by: "Kathy Tompson" imscottish@sbcglobal.net imscottishtoo
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:09 pm ((PDT))

Hi Carole,

I am a boardmember and foster for a small dog rescue group. We feed raw exclusively and strongly recommend that adopters do continue to feed raw. Honestly, we send an email with links and general info once the application starts to look like it might be approved and prior to the home visit. We tell the potential adopter that this is information on the diet that mother nature intended and the diet the dog has been on. We ask the potential adopter to read over it and check out the links, then let us know what they think and ask any questions they may have.

When we visit their home, we discuss this further and get a feel for whether the will really feed raw or not. Truthfully, if they don't want to feed raw. they are not approved for adoption but we do not throw it at them that way. We just educate them about the problems caused by commercial foods and we do tell them if they do not feed raw, the poor dog will end up with the same problems we just spent time and energy rehabilitating them from.

I hope this helps. We adopted a sweet ex puppy mill dog to a family of 4 vegetarians last weekend. They are feeding raw! Oh, we do stay in touch and offer to mentor and help so that it is easy for the adopter and so we know if they are sticking with it AND we take the 6 meals (3 days) of meals frozen seperately.

Hope this helps!

Kathy

Please give me some suggestions on how to begin the
discussion and things to say since the topic of "what food do you
feed?" ALWAYS comes up. Thanks to all of you for all of the
wonderful information that is given on this website!

Carole (Mom of 2 Greyhoumds and 2 Italian Greys)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Re: Skin or not?
Posted by: "ri_bulldogs" ri_bulldogs@yahoo.com ri_bulldogs
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:51 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
Now
> that you fed a meal with no skin/fat you have an advantage because you
> can see how it goes before your next meal and if all is going well, no
> loose stools, l'd leave the chicken as is for the next meal.
> Nice to meet you and your bulldog crew, KathyM
>
Kathy,

Their stool is actually far better than it has ever been, prior to
feeding raw chicken everything was too loose, and the quantity was much
larger. How many days, in your opinion, would be a fair trial before
allowing them to try the skin?

Thanks,
Becky

Messages in this topic (8)
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8b. Re: Skin or not?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:25 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ri_bulldogs" <ri_bulldogs@...> wrote:
How many days, in your opinion, would be a fair trial before
> allowing them to try the skin?

Hi Becky,
Since everything is going great for your dogs, i would let them eat
the skin at their next meal. If you are seeing such positive results
instantly, i would say with confidence that you will be fine. Just
don't get all excited and introduce any new meat, yet. Lets see how
the chicken with all the skin and fat works for you for a few days.
Its great to hear good news from you. Let us know how it goes, KathyM

Messages in this topic (8)
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8c. Re: Skin or not?
Posted by: "nkayl" doglover72@gmail.com nkayl
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:25 pm ((PDT))

I have a skin question too. My dogs seem to choke on it. It's like
they can't chew it up and start to just swallow it whole and end up
choking themselves. I have to pull it out of their mouths like a clown
pulling colored scarves from his sleeve. I've been cutting it off and
throwing it out. Maybe I should be cutting it off then into small
edible pieces and put it back in the bowl? Is a must to have the skin
or would it be ok to never have it?

Natalie

Messages in this topic (8)
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8d. Re: Skin or not?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:37 pm ((PDT))

"nkayl" <doglover72@...> wrote:
My dogs seem to choke on it. It's like
> they can't chew it up and start to just swallow it whole and end
up
> choking themselves. I have to pull it out of their mouths like a
clown
> pulling colored scarves from his sleeve.
*****
I have a dog like this as well. He crushes body parts and since
skin don't crush, when he swallows the crushed bone the skin just
goes along in one long section and he chokes. In five years he's
never figured this out. Chomp, swallow, choke. Chomp, swallow,
choke.

I've been cutting it off and
> throwing it out.
*****
Don't toss it. What I do is "perforate" the skin by snipping it in
places; making it pre-sliced for him, if you get my drift. I leave
all the skin on but when he chomps and swallows, the skin pulls
apart before it can clog up the tubing. If this doesn't work (it
should), then cut the skin up and feed it in the bowl.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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9a. Re: Need advice on how to approach the subject of raw feeding
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:08 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Christine!
You've gotten some great advice!
The only additional suggestions that I'd make would be to offer to have the
prospective adoptors come by at feeding time, maybe more than once; to see
raw feeding in action, let them see 'how you do it', how the dogs eat and
love it, show them your fridge, freezer, feeding areas, feeding and cleaning
practices and solutions.
You could also offer to package up several day's worth of a variety of meals
for her, so they would have a 'cushion' of time to get used to what and how
to feed her before having to shop for stuff.
You could make up a list of sources; supermarkets, ethnic markets, local
farmers, online places, whatever you use, so that they wouldn't have to do
any searching on their own at first.
HTHs
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 10/25/07, Christine <chrizk20@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "carolejc2007" <mooska2me@...> wrote:
> Please give me some suggestions on how to begin the
> > discussion and things to say since the topic of "what food do you
> > feed?" ALWAYS comes up. Thanks to all of you for all of the
> > wonderful information that is given on this website!
> >
> > Carole (Mom of 2 Greyhoumds and 2 Italian Greys)
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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