[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12200

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Pup with worms
From: Fredo A.
1b. Re: Pup with worms
From: carnesbill

2a. Re: Raw vs. Kibble
From: merril Woolf

3. Feeding Lamb
From: T Smith

4a. Hi everyone!
From: everfade79
4b. Re: Hi everyone!
From: katkellm
4c. Re: Hi everyone!
From: Sandee Lee

5a. Re: When feeding organ meat question
From: Yasuko herron

6a. Skin or not?
From: ri_bulldogs
6b. Re: Skin or not?
From: katkellm
6c. Re: Skin or not?
From: Sandee Lee
6d. Re: Skin or not?
From: Loraine Jesse

7a. Re: Elderly dog gaining weight... (long post)
From: Yasuko herron

8a. Re: Butchering help
From: Mary Tinder

9a. Re: Another Organ Meat Question
From: Yasuko herron
9b. Re: Another Organ Meat Question
From: katkellm
9c. Re: Another Organ Meat Question
From: D. Rajska
9d. Re: Another Organ Meat Question
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

10a. Egg questions;which type of Eggs would you choose to feed if you wer
From: Yasuko herron
10b. Re: Egg questions;which type of Eggs would you choose to feed if you
From: Casey Post

11a. New with Questions
From: sherri_cappabianca

12a. Re: Bone & raw meat meals?
From: iumadness64

13. Question: what is *appropriate prey diet* for hypothyroid doberman g
From: Josephine Morningstar

14a. Re: Packaged raw diets (slightly OT)
From: carnesbill

15a. Re: Now what ? (repeating the question due to lack of response)
From: Monica

Messages
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1a. Re: Pup with worms
Posted by: "Fredo A." everfade79@yahoo.com everfade79
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:19 pm ((PDT))

I have found from a dog owner who gives raw food to her dog that when you start giving a dog raw food it goes through a detox process and part of this process is worms being expelled during a bowel movement. Have you recently started the raw feeding? If so that is exactly what this might be!

Nope...not food related.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Annaliisa Readman" <amvilppu@hotmail.com>

Well...we went out for a poo this morning in the raining ash (we are in san
diego surrounded by fires but not in any danger) and out came what looked
like a spaghetti bowl. Laila is 4 months and I know that puppies are prone
to worms, especially ones like her that love to sneak in a munch of stray
poo, but I just wanted to see what everyone's opinion was on whether or not
it could be food related.

Fall*Glimmer*Sparkle*n*Fade
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Messages in this topic (5)
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1b. Re: Pup with worms
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:14 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Fredo A." <everfade79@...> wrote:
>
> I have found from a dog owner who gives raw food to her dog
> that when you start giving a dog raw food it goes through a
> detox process and part of this process is worms being
> expelled during a bowel movement.

Thats just one of those myths. Doesn't happen.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Raw vs. Kibble
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:20 pm ((PDT))

Would that be like 'reduced for a quick sale' due to being past their 'sell by' date?

Merril

> And like all dedicated shoppers, packs look for the deals, the
> closeouts, the introductory offers, the limited time only's. Except
> that their deals are elk slowed by circumstance or separated form the
> herd, their closeouts are the old and infirm, their introductory offers
> are the newly born, and for wolf packs limited time offers are seasonal
> windfall.
>
> And--like humans--wolves do pay. Often with their lives.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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3. Feeding Lamb
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:20 pm ((PDT))

I asked a friend about lamb, goat or pig farmers on the island here & she
told me that lamb specifically carry diseases & worms that will infect
dogs. I am looking for outlets for bulk food for all my dogs!
I told her that I would freeze it for a time before I fed but she rebutted
that a lamb farmer told her this & stood her ground.
Anyone here feed lamb? Or know what she is referring to?
Trina
--
Chip (deaf Dalmatian)
Casper (deaf Great Dane)
Whisper (deaf Great Dane)
Louie (hearing Great Dane)
Joey (deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
Amy (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
Chloe (deaf & blind Spaniel mix)

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Messages in this topic (1)
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4a. Hi everyone!
Posted by: "everfade79" everfade79@yahoo.com everfade79
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:20 pm ((PDT))

Hi All,
My name is Fredo and Im in Phoneix AZ. I have recently taken home a
beautiful Min Pin pup and Im interested in what diet would be best for
her. This is how I stumbled across information on raw feeding and it
intrigued me. I had been feeding that garbage Science Diet to her that
the vet gave me but I noticed right away she started getting dandruff
and was having to go to the bathroom way more than usual. I simply
wasnt happy with the food or the reaction my puppy was having from it.
Well Im definitely going the raw route with her and my two cats and I
have found plentiful information on the subject and what to feed
however I havent really found anything that covers what to feed a
puppy who is now going to be introduced to this diet for the first
time.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should offer up to her
first to get her warmed up to this? I have wanted a Min Pin for a long
time and I really want whats best for her so I want to be sure I start
this out right.
Thanks!

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: Hi everyone!
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:11 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "everfade79" <everfade79@...> wrote:
> Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should offer up to her
> first to get her warmed up to this?

Hi Fredo,
Congratulations on getting the puppy that you always wanted and on
researching what is best for your new girl. I would think that you
might want to start with a chicken breast. They have lots of meat and
nice and easy bones to chew. I would serve it at room temperature.
Just put it down, step back, and see what she does. Give her a little
time and if she seems confused you could slice the chicken open for
her to give her a dig in place to start. Let us know how her first
"real" meal goes, KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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4c. Re: Hi everyone!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:22 pm ((PDT))

A few past messages about weaning/feeding puppies.....
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135757
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135847
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/137170

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "everfade79" <everfade79@yahoo.com>
I
have found plentiful information on the subject and what to feed
however I havent really found anything that covers what to feed a
puppy who is now going to be introduced to this diet for the first
time.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should offer up to her
first to get her warmed up to this? I have wanted a Min Pin for a long
time and I really want whats best for her so I want to be sure I start
this out right.

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: When feeding organ meat question
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:21 pm ((PDT))

> My dogs loved beef liver and brain, but will not touch pork liver. Anyone with this or any >suggestions.

I do. Hi. Mine does the same thing.I mean,my dog eats pork liver without anything added to it but pork kidney, she never touch,never come closer if it were just as is. Maybe smell???

when I bought pork products;pork tongue,pork liver,pork kidney etc...I had to buy 10lb bucket because it was the smallest size I can get so,I cannot ditch the 10lb without trying anything let my dog eat it.

I tested her with raw egg;you put pork liver,pork kidney and pour raw Egg over it andlightely beaten it with spoon and serve.

If fed that way,she eats entoustically and finish off without any prob in a second.

Why don't you try mixing something your dog likes;tripe,Egg etc? Something that hasstronger smell may cut the porky smell I think.

My human nose can tell pork kidney and liver has stronger smell than beef liver or kidney..
Something distinctive.Maybe that is why your dog is acting like that.

If you try and no improvement,then,you can ditch the pork organs because there is no rule that dog must have pork organs.As long as your dog gets organ from other animals,maybe fine....

good luck,

yassy

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Messages in this topic (12)
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6a. Skin or not?
Posted by: "ri_bulldogs" ri_bulldogs@yahoo.com ri_bulldogs
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:21 pm ((PDT))

We bought some chicken leg 1/4's at the meat market. We are curious as
to whether or not we should remove the skin before feeding to the
bulldogs. We did remove it for tonights meal as a precautionary
measure. We assumed that they should be fed 3/4 of a pound each this
evening. When the skin and fat is removed the meat loses a lot of
weight. So we added more meat and bone to make up for this. It seems
that with 7 bulldogs in the house perhaps fat and skin removal is not
economical. However would the pups get the runs from the fat and skin
as this would be their first completely raw meal?

Thanks for your help.
Becky

Messages in this topic (4)
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6b. Re: Skin or not?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:10 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ri_bulldogs" <ri_bulldogs@...> wrote:
>However would the pups get the runs from the fat and skin
> as this would be their first completely raw meal?

Hi Becky,
While i can't make my answer a promise, my answer is probably not.
Most dogs can eat the skin and fat just fine as part of a first
chicken meal. Some can't, but i think they are the exception. Now
that you fed a meal with no skin/fat you have an advantage because you
can see how it goes before your next meal and if all is going well, no
loose stools, l'd leave the chicken as is for the next meal.
Nice to meet you and your bulldog crew, KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
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6c. Re: Skin or not?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:15 pm ((PDT))

Becky,

I wouldn't remove skin or fat unless they have problems. Don't anticipate
them! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "ri_bulldogs" <ri_bulldogs@yahoo.com>

We bought some chicken leg 1/4's at the meat market. We are curious as
to whether or not we should remove the skin before feeding to the
bulldogs. We did remove it for tonights meal as a precautionary
measure. We assumed that they should be fed 3/4 of a pound each this
evening. When the skin and fat is removed the meat loses a lot of
weight. So we added more meat and bone to make up for this. It seems
that with 7 bulldogs in the house perhaps fat and skin removal is not
economical. However would the pups get the runs from the fat and skin
as this would be their first completely raw meal?

Messages in this topic (4)
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6d. Re: Skin or not?
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:14 pm ((PDT))

Becky I started feeding my pups ground up quarters, did not remove anything. They are over 8 wks now and eating the quarters with skin and all, same with turkey wings, pork hocks etc.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

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7a. Re: Elderly dog gaining weight... (long post)
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:21 pm ((PDT))

I have read that older dog tend to get inactive compare to younger years,so,lower the daily intake (about 20% gradually) and lower the fat intake and do more excercise to maintain the healthy weight.

If thyroid was not prob for a dog,then,you could try that.

yassy

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8a. Re: Butchering help
Posted by: "Mary Tinder" mtinder@tinderco.com mmmaryt
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:21 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Andrea! That was just what I needed to know.
Mary Tinder
>
> Unless you have little bitty dogs I would ask for the goat in about
> seven pieces. The head/neck, left front leg/shoulder, right front
> leg/shoulder, left ribcage, right ribcage, left rear leg/butt, right
> rear leg/butt.

Messages in this topic (3)
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9a. Re: Another Organ Meat Question
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:21 pm ((PDT))

>Should I only be giving organ meat once a week or is it ok to give a small fraction everyday?

I give liver 3 times a week rotating between Beef,pork,chicken. I feed liver 3 times per week just because I giving my dog gizzard and poultry heart as side dish on other days. I rotate them in a week.

Heart can be muscle meat and if your dog does well torelated on it,then,you can feed big.

You can feed liver daily too in small amount(5% daily) if you prefer.

yassy

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9b. Re: Another Organ Meat Question
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:10 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <ladyver@...> wrote:
>
> I have a question to add onto this one....the ducks I get are really
boney. Would it be OK to supplement the boney duck with duck hearts?

Hi Sonja,
This is a perfect plan. Heart is an always a welcome addition to a
bony meal. Heart is a wonderful meal all by itself-remembering bowel
tolerance. Heart is great food and you certainly won't hurt her by
feeding lots of it. KathyM

Messages in this topic (8)
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9c. Re: Another Organ Meat Question
Posted by: "D. Rajska" d.rajska@gmail.com deerajska
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:11 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I just wanted to ask for clarification - you said heart is easier to digest?
In comparison to liver? Or other meatymeats?

Thanks....

Dee

On 10/24/07, katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> You can make a whole meal out of heart if your dogs like heart and
> their bowels can tolerate it-heart seems to be easier for a dog in
> that respect. Mine love lamb hearts, and i will often feed them solo.
> Like Laura, i find it easier to give a smidgen of liver everyday. KathyM
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZWNlaWI3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc0MjM1MjYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3NDIxMDgwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE5MzI3NTE3MA-->
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9d. Re: Another Organ Meat Question
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:15 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/24/2007 9:20:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, "nkayl"
writes:

is it ok to give a small fraction everyday?

Since Gizzard and heart are more considered as meaty meat is that then
ok to give in larger doses everyday than say a liver or spleen?

*****
Yes, and yes. :)

It's safer to feed a little bit of organ at a time, in the beginning, but
not a lot--you don't want total organ over 10% of the total, over time.

Gizzards are pretty little unless the dog is, too--it's even gulpable for my
cats (who will gulp it down, throw it back up, stare at it, and re-eat it
more thoroughly). When I was first starting, I fed a lot of gizzards which came
packaged with the chicken hearts I wanted, and I fed a little heart nearly
every day. Once I got hold of beef hearts, I have been skipping gizzards and
feeding the beef. Heart like that is a little rich for a newbie, so you might
take building up to full meals of that, but boy, do my cats love it!

Lynda

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Messages in this topic (8)
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10a. Egg questions;which type of Eggs would you choose to feed if you wer
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:21 pm ((PDT))

Hi,everybody. I have a question for you all.

I been buying "Eggland's best Egg" the white cartoned white eggs.

Those Eggs are quite fresh(delivered within 24-48hours after Eggsare laied) and they test their Egg weekly etc and care for their quality of Egg and health of chicken,and it tastes real good and I been buying.

but I saw 3 types of egg carton at store;all natural(caged),caged free,organic (free range).

I once bought cage-free,but palette did not torelate on it very well,so,I backed to white Egg(caged).

I was thinking that even if the carton says cage free,you never know that chicken really went outside and moved around and it could be an Egg from chicken that did not go outside at all.

And, caged one... I was wondering if the chicken above one chiciken could give droppings to chicken that live under...

Which Egg do you pick if you were me?

Below is reply from company on my inquiry.

============
Thanks for your interest in Egglandfs Best eggs and the care of our hens. We have three different products with three different management systems. Each has advantages and disadvantages as far as bird health and welfare are concerned. Our regular Eggland's Best eggs in the white carton are from caged hens and the Eggland's Best Cage-Free and Eggland's Best Organic are cage free. Eggland's Best Organic are also allowed outdoor access (free range), as environmental conditions permit. The cage-free environment offers greater freedom for movement. Cages are still the most prevalent housing system, since they offer the best dietary control, sanitation, ventilation, and freedom from dust and ammonia, plus the lowest mortality rate. Cages now provide significantly more space than they did a few years ago. Eggland's Best is committed to making every effort to ensure that all of our hens are in optimum health.

The free range environment has visual appeal and certainly offers greater freedom to roam. It also permits exposure to adverse weather conditions, disease-carrying wild birds, soil-borne and insect-borne diseases and parasites, and predators (foxes, hawks, cats, dogs, etc.). For any housing system used, farmers will make every effort to keep their birds healthy and comfortable, and also to ensure that the product they market is safe and sanitary. The survival of their business is dependent on maintaining healthy and sanitary practices, so it will always be a high priority.

Please write back if you have any other questions or comments.

=====

yassy

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10b. Re: Egg questions;which type of Eggs would you choose to feed if you
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:34 pm ((PDT))

> but I saw 3 types of egg carton at store;all natural(caged),caged
> free,organic (free range).

> Which Egg do you pick if you were me?

Yassy,

Animal welfare aside (the caged birds have very little space and I avoid
those on general principle), you have to keep in mind that all of these
choices are for eggs from birds that were fed what is essentially "chicken
kibble".

The ideal choice for eggs is from your local farmer who pastures his birds
where they can eat grass and bugs and what have you. Eggs from those birds
will be very different from your usual store-bought eggs.

http://www.localharvest.org/pastured-eggs.jsp

You can even see the difference - pastured eggs have a firm yolk that stands
up tall and is nearly a deep orange color. Not the pale yellow wimpy yolks
in commercially-raised eggs.

That said, if you cannot get locally-raised pastured eggs, I would go with
either the cage free or organic choices -

http://www.americanhumane.org/site/PageServer?pagename=nr_news_releases_07egglands

Just because of the whole caged bird versus uncaged issue.

Casey

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. New with Questions
Posted by: "sherri_cappabianca" sherri_cappabianca@yahoo.com sherri_cappabianca
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:10 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I'm new to the group - trying to do some research before getting a
new golden retriever pup in December. I want to go raw, so I've been
reading a lot about raw diets on several websites, this and other
groups, and various books. In looking at raw diets, I'm having an
issue with the amount of antibiotics, hormones, and other junk
injected, fed, etc. to our human feed supply. Does this concern
anyone else? If so, how do you handle it? I did manage to find a
couple of local organic ranchers, but don't know yet how expensive
it will be to buy from them.

The other questions I have concern Pitcairn's book. He seems quite
knowledgeable, he's been doing it for a long time, and he advocates
feeding raw, but he makes some points about a prey diet that I would
like to have group members' opinions on.

- He states that "while a prey diet is closer to the natural diet,
it has the disadvantage of being too rich for inactive animals
(inactive compared with wolves who hunt for extended periods)".

- He also discusses the high chemical content in meat and bones due
to environmental contamination which he states is still present to
some degree in organic meat and bones.

- Then he goes on to talk about bones and the fact that lead is
deposited in bones and doesn't break down. He talks about the
excessive amount of lead in the bones of US cattle and therefore
human grade bone meal can't be derived from these cows.

His solution is (in addition to feeding organic wherever possible)
to add grains, veges and fruits, I think because he believes that by
reducing the amount of meat fed, it will reduce the risks stated
above.

I just want to do the right thing for my new pup, perhaps I'm over
thinking it. Any advice?

Thanks,

Sherri

Messages in this topic (4)
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12a. Re: Bone & raw meat meals?
Posted by: "iumadness64" iumadness64@yahoo.com iumadness64
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:11 pm ((PDT))

Trina,
I started about the same time as you did in switching my dog over to
the raw diet. At first, I was real nervous about the ratio of bone,
meat and organs. When I ran across the post that said to not make a
simple process difficult, it really made me realize that was exactly
what I was doing. Most people don't worry about what they put into
their own bodies. They don't follow the dietary recommendations
established for optimum human health...grains, dairy, meat, etc. I
don't have the vast experience behind me as these other posters, but I
will whole-heartily back what Bill Carnes and many others have stated.
Just keep it simple. Go slow if you want or need to. I only have one
dog so your household is definitely more complicated to feed than mine.
All the more reason to keep it as simple as possible IMO. Listen to
your heart. If you're like me, you know in your heart that feeding the
raw prey diet is the only path that really makes sense. Like I have
read...it isn't rocket science...just common sense. Best wishes for
you and your dogs.

Mark

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13. Question: what is *appropriate prey diet* for hypothyroid doberman g
Posted by: "Josephine Morningstar" josephine.morningstar@gmail.com jomorningstar
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:14 pm ((PDT))

first off.. NOT my dog, but one that lives in this household.

first thought huge swelling was lymphoma, paperwork from rescue came LATE
(like 5 months after adoption was final) and it was hypothyroidism from the
start and not lymphoma

What foods? ratio? timetable would he need to get over the 2 wks of chemo
and help straighten this poor service dog doberman out?

owner still insists crap is better, BUT he isnt tolerating it. he LOVES
tripe and LOVES raw chicken.. but should he get other meats? and im
confused? not sure what to tell her

(chemo meds were cell specific, vincristine and L-Asparaginase and 50mg
prednisone)

due to my disability, im not able to read posts on the website. i have
enough trouble reading it here on gmail,
--
Josephine MorningStar & Heather, Pyr, Mobility & MASD
Native American in Massachusetts

Never threaten anyone. It ruins the surprise.
www.apachecreations.com

By Believing, One Sees.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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14a. Re: Packaged raw diets (slightly OT)
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:14 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@...>
wrote:
>
> Eh, I'm all about variety. There are some people who include
> a small bit of veggies with the raw diet and their dogs
> still thrive on it.

It's not the veggies they are thriving on, rather the meat, bones, and
organs.

> Regardless, even if wolves didn't eat veggies, some think
> the nutrients
> in veggies are still absorbed and beneficial to dogs.

Those are the same people who don't understand cellulose, dentation,
and digestive tracts.

You can find "some" who will think anything. There are "some" who
think the world is flat. There are "some" who think the moon landing
was staged. There are "some" who think we are being visited by aliens
from outer space. There are "some" who think dogs should eat veggies.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (8)
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15a. Re: Now what ? (repeating the question due to lack of response)
Posted by: "Monica" mommyof2gals@comcast.net mommyof2gals
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:15 pm ((PDT))

I don't know if my questions get lost in the usual drabble about the
consistency of poop or if veteran raw feeders are choosing not to
answer, as I have had SO MANY questions go completely unanswered in
the last six months while my dog and I suffer blindly.

So I am resending - purposefully - my entire original post looking
for direction with a sick dog (yet again, Keeshond, 4yrs old, 60lbs
no vaccinations since puppyhood).

I am sorry if I sound harsh, but every time I have asked a question
about this dog who is suddenly having problems with his raw diet I
only get silence. I am starting to feel - right or wrong - as if no
one wants to deal with or acknowledge this particular dog might
actually have a difficulty with a raw diet after 4yrs. Yes, he might
have died if he were a wolf and unable to eat what the pack was
eating. But he is NOT a wolf, he is my life companion and he is in
pain, vomitting and no one can or WILL guide me - not this list, not
my raw-feeding vet who just weakly says perhaps he should be on a
commercial kibble diet. What is someone who is wholeheartedly sold on
rawfeeding supposed to think when everyone just steps back and turns
their back???

I do not expect medical diagnosis, but I cannot believe that no one
will just flat out tell me if it is HEALTHY or not to keep a dog
strictly on poultry with no organ meat, fish, rabbit etc. For Gods
sake, if its not healthy then just say it. I'm sure other committed
rawfeeders will not turn away when their pets are thriving. And if
one or two who are on the fence walk away from the prospect, then so
be it.

So many of you take such a high-brow, sarcastic tone with newbies
trying to do right by their dog by EVEN seeking information on
rawfeeding while so many here are very good at making many of them
feel stupid. Where are the opinions when a long time (4yr poster)
needs help?

Frustrated and tired of the silence
Monica and Loki

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Monica" <mommyof2gals@...> wrote:
>
> Some of you might remember, my Loki started suffering from
> pancreatitis back in April after a nasty illness of unknown origin.
> It took until June to get it under control and was a nightmare
during
> those two months.
>
> We managed to keep it in check by carefully monitoring fat,
primarily
> by skinning his poultry.
>
> We finally tried adding back some liver yesterday, as I feel organ
> meat is essential to this diet. He had one *tiny* piece (less than
1"
> square - he is 60lbs) and he is back to having an upset tummy -
> tonight he refused dinner after acting sick all day, and just now
> vomitted - mostly water and bile. I have purposely only fed him
> skinned chicken quarters this week so I could gauge his reaction to
> the organ meat.
>
> If he continues to have an intolerance to organ meat and is limited
> on other meat he can eat, will he be nutrient deficient? I already
> cannot feed him lamb or veal anymore, he hates fish and rabbit and
> the only pork he can tolerate is heavily boned pieces like ribs or
> neck bones. His diet is basically chicken and turkey.
>
> I have complete faith in a well-rounded raw diet, but with
everything
> we've had to omit since April I am as worried as I was when he was
on
> premium kibble as a pup.
>
> And no, he hasn't had any vaccinations since he was a pup and
nothing
> else has changed but that little piece of liver.
>
> Thanks
> Monica and Loki
>

Messages in this topic (20)
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