Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12194

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
From: colliewoman

2a. RILEY'S FIRST VISIT TO VET SINCE STARTING RAW
From: miensasis

3a. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
From: Sandee Lee
3b. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
From: Denise Strother
3c. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
From: woofwoofgrrl
3d. Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)
3e. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
From: cynthiashankman
3f. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
From: Yasuko herron

4a. Re: Blood in poop
From: ginny wilken

5a. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
From: Giselle
5b. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
From: Denise Strother
5c. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)
5d. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
From: cdhaik

6a. Re: swallowing food whole
From: Denise Strother
6b. swallowing food whole
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)

7. Soft pork bones
From: doreenchui

8a. Re: Packaged raw diets
From: moemahood@aol.com
8b. Re: Packaged raw diets
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

9. Raw vs. Kibble
From: Dina

10. why is my dog eating her poo
From: maradethc

11.1. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
From: linoleum5017

12. Re: Bone & raw meat meals?
From: T Smith

13. Urine output from a puppy on Raw Diet.
From: naps2003

14. First time feeding raw and . . .
From: liebo1134

15a. Now what?
From: Monica

Messages
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1a. Re: while we're on the subject of tripe... what's the deal?
Posted by: "colliewoman" donna.frankland@ukonline.co.uk colliewoman
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:55 pm ((PDT))

in my house it IS considered a superfood. i have no idea what the
nutritional content of the stuff is though!
i do however know that if tikki is feeling a bit grim and has a dodgy
tummy, green tripe seems to sort him out.
i have heard that it is bang full of nice enzymes, apperently extra
enzymes can help a dog with hepatocutaneous syndrome. ergo tikki gets
lots of tripe :)
if i could afford to/could get enough to feed him it 3 times a week i
most certainly would.
an extra bonus is its the only thing i feed the dogs that the cats
dont try and steal ;)
love
donn

Messages in this topic (14)
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2a. RILEY'S FIRST VISIT TO VET SINCE STARTING RAW
Posted by: "miensasis" kpmnlm@patmedia.net miensasis
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:55 pm ((PDT))

Hi Everyone...

The recent posts here about how to handle the vet when feeding raw
were very timely and helpful. I've had my wheaten, Riley, on raw for
about a month now and was nervous about his upcoming vet visit and
how to handle the subject of diet if it came up (plus the fact that
they always ask for a stool sample...and Riley's always has little
bits of bone in it!). Well...it never came up because the vet was SO
IMPRESSED with him. He said Riley's teeth were immaculate, his body
size and weight was perfect, and that Riley gets a gold star for the
healthiest dog he has seen in awhile. He even asked if we had just
come from the groomer because Riley's coat was so shiny and soft.
(Riley is actually DUE for a bath tomorrow!) He said...I don't know
what you are doing with this guy....but whatever it is KEEP IT UP! I
just kept quiet, said THANK YOU, and we went on our way. Riley has
seen this vet several times since he was a pup, and he has NEVER,
EVER had this kind of praise for him! I left feeling so good about my
decision to feed raw and it was just extra proof of the power of this
very natural way of eating.

Nancy

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:05 pm ((PDT))

I don't understand how a raw diet would be responsible for an enlarged lymph
node and low platelet count...or how that would translate into the need to
feed low fat? You need a vet who will look at the dog, not blame the diet!
Get a diagnosis and go from there.

Either way, the diet did not cause this. When you get a diagnosis you can
easily tweak a raw diet if necessary. Judging by what you are feeding, you
definitely need to add a bunch of red meat but we can deal with that when he
recovers.

Get a new vet if you have to, but find out what's wrong, treat the disease,
then get him back on raw as quickly as possible.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "nahteo1" <nahteo1@yahoo.com>

My 5 month mini-doxie began vomiting/ diarrhea last week and within two
days, took to my vet for a check. Long story short, they suspected
either a blockage or pancreatitis. Tests came back normal, x-
rays/ultrasound negative. One week and NO diagnosis. Another blood
test, another ultra-sound of the abdomen, then pancreatitis was finally
ruled out, but they found an enlarged lymph node, which was causing low
platelet count. Vet's making it sound that it's due to raw feeding??

My doxie's diet rotation consisted of turkey necks, chicken wings/
drummet, fish twice a week (full, raw sardine) and a piece of chicken
liver weekly. IF my doxie survives this unexplainable sickness,
they're suggesting completely OFF raw and switch to a low-fat kibble.

Messages in this topic (7)
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3b. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:37 pm ((PDT))

Your vet can't find out what is wrong with your dog and so he is
blaming your dog's diet. Your dog's diet does sound a little bone
heavy though. Raw diet doesn't cause enlarged lymph nodes. A dog needs
protein and fat, carbs are not required and that's all a kibble can
offer your dog. I'd tell your vet to find something else to suggest.
This is not your fault or your dog's diet. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nahteo1" <nahteo1@...> wrote:
My 5 month mini-doxie began vomiting/ diarrhea last week and within
two days, took to my vet for a check. Long story short, they suspected
either a blockage or pancreatitis. Tests came back normal, x-
rays/ultrasound negative. One week and NO diagnosis. Another blood
test, another ultra-sound of the abdomen, then pancreatitis was
finally ruled out, but they found an enlarged lymph node, which was
causing low platelet count. Vet's making it sound that it's due to
raw feeding??
My doxie's diet rotation consisted of turkey necks, chicken wings/
drummet, fish twice a week (full, raw sardine) and a piece of chicken
liver weekly. IF my doxie survives this unexplainable sickness,
they're suggesting completely OFF raw and switch to a low-fat kibble.
My resolve w/ raw food is being tested and somehow, I feel responsible
for his being sick. What's going on??

Messages in this topic (7)
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3c. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:38 pm ((PDT))

What, pray tell, is the vets rationale for blaming an enlarged lymph
node on diet? I'm curious about the path of "logic" that brought him to
that conclusion.

There are MANY possible reasons for an enlarged lymph node - some very
serious, some not. I'd be pushing the vet for detailed explanations
about possible diagnosis, determining tests, and courses of treatment
for each. Keep in mind that sometimes, regardless of the cause, the
treatement would be the same - in which case, perhaps it's not worth the
money to continue doing tests. Once I had that info I'd be making sure
we have an agreed upon course of action based on a logical sequence of
events.

On the side I would also be researching everything the vet says plus
looking at the breed for common congenital defects - perhaps doxie's are
prone to lymph related issues? Has the dog had any vaccinations
recently? Perhaps it's reacting to one of those?

It's not the diet. When presented with cases that are hard to diagnose,
vets want to remove variables they don't understand - sadly diet is one
of those variables that they don't understand unless it's prescription
crap in a bag. So they immediately want to switch all sick dogs to that
so they can think they've eliminated a 'variable' that will "help
stabilize the dog". It's idiotic. Read the label on the low fat
prescription diets and you'll be disgusted. It's all carbs! Plus - I
would think that a low fat diet for a puppy would be detrimental since
they need higher calories to support growth....

You might want to include more meaty meat in the diet. It looks pretty
bone heavy, but that would have nothing to do with your baby's symptoms.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Christine

Here's the ingredients for the Science Diet low fat formula....
They have the worst ingredients...<shiver>

Ground Whole Grain Corn, Powdered Cellulose 15% (source of fiber),
Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Peanut Hulls 11% (source of
fiber), Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Mill Run, Dried Egg Product, Corn
Gluten Meal, Soybean Oil, Iron Oxide, Vitamin E Supplement, Potassium
Chloride, Iodized Salt, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of
vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin
A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement,
Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3
Supplement), Choline Chloride, preserved with BHT, BHA and Ethoxyquin,
Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate,
Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Carnitine,
Beta-carotene.

nahteo1 wrote:
>
>
> MODERATORS NOTE;SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!!
>
> My 5 month mini-doxie began vomiting/ diarrhea last week and within two
> days, took to my vet for a check. Long story short, they suspected
> either a blockage or pancreatitis. Tests came back normal, x-
> rays/ultrasound negative. One week and NO diagnosis. Another blood
> test, another ultra-sound of the abdomen, then pancreatitis was finally
> ruled out, but they found an enlarged lymph node, which was causing low
> platelet count. Vet's making it sound that it's due to raw feeding??
>
> My doxie's diet rotation consisted of turkey necks, chicken wings/
> drummet, fish twice a week (full, raw sardine) and a piece of chicken
> liver weekly. IF my doxie survives this unexplainable sickness,
> they're suggesting completely OFF raw and switch to a low-fat kibble.
>
> My resolve w/ raw food is being tested and somehow, I feel responsible
> for his being sick. What's going on??

Messages in this topic (7)
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3d. Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:53 pm ((PDT))

Are you sticking to the guidelines of 80% meat, 10% organs, and 10%
bone? The diet you described sounded heavy on bone, but perhaps that's
because I don't know what "drummet" is.

Carolyn J. Garnaas

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Messages in this topic (7)
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3e. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
Posted by: "cynthiashankman" ShankMa4@aol.com cynthiashankman
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:12 pm ((PDT))

>
> My doxie's diet rotation consisted of turkey necks, chicken wings/
> drummet, fish twice a week (full, raw sardine) and a piece of
chicken
> liver weekly. IF my doxie survives this unexplainable sickness,
> they're suggesting completely OFF raw and switch to a low-fat
kibble.

Doesn't the above rotation need more meaty meat???? All the meals
have bone in them!!?? Right?

It seems we don't talk enough about "just meaty meals" without bone.
We talk more about bone meals and it can be misleading to a
beginner. Especially when we talk about giving chicken with bone in
for one week -two weeks in the beginning. Then a beginner doesn't
realize about giving just meaty meals. And the name of the diet is
confusing too ... "Raw Meaty Bones".

80% meat; 10% bone; and 10% organ. That is not what the above
rotation consists of. Right?

Moderators: Could we please talk more about meaty meals, aka no bone
meals.

Thanks, because I know I was confused in the beginning too. I fed
too much bone. My dog had powder-like poops.

Cindi

Messages in this topic (7)
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3f. Re: Dog's serious sickness blamed on raw food?!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:33 pm ((PDT))

> I don't know what "drummet" is.

I maybe wrong,but I thoght drummet is from chicken wing and it isquite tiny stuff..

Even if dog sized around chiwawas,I think those are way too small and not much meat...

What do you all think? I have never fed drummet to my corgi as meal at all...

yassy

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Messages in this topic (7)
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4a. Re: Blood in poop
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:13 pm ((PDT))

On Oct 23, 2007, at 1:06 PM, merril Woolf wrote:
> And what's even funnier :- I read the post and knew exactly what
> she was talking about and
> didn't even notice the mistake until I saw the correction.
>
> Guess you can add me to the dumb blonde reader.

No, really, Merril, I did exactly the same thing. Read it and just
knew what she said, even if it wasn't written there.

And I AM a blonde, dumb when it's profitable:)

ginny

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (10)
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5a. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:15 pm ((PDT))

Hi! Erika, is it?
Actually, tiny dogs often need MORE than the 2-3% of their estimated ADULT
ideal body weight.
Sometimes they need as much as 4-6%, and if they are still growing, even
more than that.
You could figure out her estimated adult weight, and plan to feed, say, 5%
of that daily, split into 3-4 meals a day.
4lbs as an adult weight? Tiny dogs mature fast, so your girl may be near her
full growth.
5% of 4lbs = 90.718474 grams or 3.2 oz a day
6% of 4lbs = 108.862169 grams or 3.84 oz a day
5% of 5 lbs = 113.398093 or 4 oz a day
6% of 5 lbs = 136.077711 or 4.8 oz a day
BUT, there's no need to figure it out this way! The percentages are there
JUST to provide a guideline, a place to start, its not a hard and fast
*rule*.
Letting a small or tiny dog eat from a large portion, and then 'trading'
that portion for a yummy treat when she's eaten a meal's worth, so it can be
put away for the next meal is a terrific way to feed!

A few recommendations to think about;
A tiny dog should be fed in several small meals a day to begin with.
But there's no need to cut the portions up in teensy bits.
Offer a chicken leg or breast, maybe with the meat ribboned with heavy
kitchen shears and take it up and put it in the fridge when the pup has
obviously had enough.
Next meal, serve it up again.
You may want to warm it on a plastic bag in very warm water, as cold foods
can lower a toy dog's core body temperature.
There's not need to worry about getting enough bone at first, once she eats
down to the bone, the soft gristle is often enough for a tiny dog's needs.
Whatever bone she doesn't eat, toss out.

EDIBLE bone, what your dog can manage at her size and proficiency, is whats
important. You'll want to feed mostly meat, and fat, and some organs, too.
Whole prey, with skin and fur on and organs intact, is the ideal species
appropriate raw prey model. Small critters, like small size rabbits, Game
Hens (young chickens), quail, rats, hamsters, guinea pigs, small fish, etc.
are of a size thats appropriate for edible bone for your tiny dog. You can
feed turkey, pork, beef, lamb, goat, etc, too, but most of those bones will
not be edible for a toy dog.

A helpful link;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*
As for where to find good meat for your dog, shop where you would shop for
yourself!
Its that simple.

HTHs
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.

New here.

So here is the deal, I have 6 month old female Chihuahua who is around 3lbs.
The only brand
of food available here is purina which is basically corn and some chicken
fat. I don't want to
feed her that.

So, I'm thinking very seriously about putting her on a raw diet. Are there
any Mexico resident
raw feeders here (I live in Oaxaca City) or for that matter third world
country residents that
can give me suggestions as to where I can buy SAFE raw meat?

And for every one, what is the best kind of diet for a dog of this size?
Everything a normal
dog gets but smaller? How much do I feed a day?

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Messages in this topic (6)
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5b. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:38 pm ((PDT))

I have two grown Chis that weigh about 5 lbs each. Any meat that you
would buy for yourself is safe for your dog. And many of us feed meat
to our dogs that we ourselves would not eat. Matter of fact my dogs
get much more excited about meals if they are on the smelly side. Yes
they eat the same as larger dogs, but less. I don't weigh my dog's
food, but the starting point is 2-3% of your dogs estimated adult
weight. Then just adjust- more if your dog is getting thin and less if
your dog is getting portly. Me? I'd get a chicken and give her a leg
for the first meal and just keep feeding the chicken til it's gone.
Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cringingsphinx" <anielkacsaky@...>
wrote:
So here is the deal, I have 6 month old female Chihuahua who is around
3lbs. The only brand of food available here is purina which is
basically corn and some chicken fat. I don't want to feed her that.
So, I'm thinking very seriously about putting her on a raw diet. Are
there any Mexico resident raw feeders here (I live in Oaxaca City) or
for that matter third world country residents that can give me
suggestions as to where I can buy SAFE raw meat?
And for every one, what is the best kind of diet for a dog of this
size? Everything a normal dog gets but smaller? How much do I feed a
day?

Messages in this topic (6)
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5c. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:44 pm ((PDT))

You can feed the little dogs the same things you feed the big dogs. My
six-pound Toy Poodle will eat everything the big dogs eat, but the only
bones she fully consumes are chicken bones. I think the other bones are
just too daunting for her size. She strips them and leaves them. Then I
remove them.

I tried to get her to eat those nice soft bunny bones, but she dislikes
bunny and steadfastly refuses to eat it. I allow her one refusal - bunny
is it. Everything else, she has to eat. Including liver.

BTW, she is just absolutely, completely and totally nuts about tripe! I
can hide anything I need to in tripe and she devours it and asks for
more immediately! It's like Belgian chocolate is to me - or Haagen Daz.

Carolyn J. Garnaas

Thank you

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Messages in this topic (6)
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5d. Re: Raw feeding a chiuauah... in Mexico.
Posted by: "cdhaik" cdhaik@yahoo.com cdhaik
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:28 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cringingsphinx"
<anielkacsaky@...> wrote:
>
> So, I'm thinking very seriously about putting her on a raw diet.
Are there any Mexico resident
> raw feeders here (I live in Oaxaca City) or for that matter third
world country residents that
> can give me suggestions as to where I can buy SAFE raw meat?
>

hi there and welcome

I live in Guatemala City. I have been feeding raw for 10 months now
and it is a battle to find cheaper cuts of meat here but i have and
have found a few sources out of the city willing to supply me with
whole rabbit. These guys farm them for personal consumption but are
very happy to sell to me as well. i also found out by asking the
locals where it was cheaper to go for meat. They sent me to the
local markets of which every town has one here. Would i eat the meat
myself. NO!! In my opinion not sanitary conditions at all but my two
Aussies and one old boy maltese X and one and a half cats (one
princess purr is still stubborn about raw) thrive on what i get.

Ocassionally i get to the big supermarkets with imported meat and
cry a few tears as i fork out money for pork shoulder roasts and
ribs or lamb leg but this is such a small portion of my monthly
budget. Turkey is also a popular meat here so drums thighs and wings
are great buys when i see them. I would strongly recommend asking
the locals where they buy their meat and speak to the local farmers.
You might be very suprised what you can come up with and for a dog
that size oh what heaven for the purse. I dont tell anyone what i
buy is for my dogs, they would be horrified that i feed my dogs what
could feed their families for a while.

Tongue is a delicacey here so costs me more than it would back home.
Heart is very cheap and i get fresh slaughter monthly that i pack
and freeze. As for the safety aspect of meat a lot of people on this
list will tell you they feed stuff they find slightly off, heck some
even feed completely off. I have never had a problem even the
slightly slimy pork i find on sale at the end of sell by date seems
to all go down and out quite normally. I am quite sure once you have
settled into the raw diet you will see incredible changes and
benefits in your little one.

Caren y Amber y Rain

Messages in this topic (6)
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6a. Re: swallowing food whole
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:37 pm ((PDT))

Hi Erika,
I have two 5lb Chihuahuas. Feed your dog bigger food. Try a leg or
thigh, a whole leg quarter or a breast quarter. Wings are a little
heavy on bone. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "erikamdey" <erikamdey@...> wrote:
This is a wonderful message board, thanks all to the great insight. I
have a little dog, a 7# papillon who just started on this diet. How
do I get him to NOT swallow his food whole, or maybe is this okay at
first? He's decided that this was the best invention created by me,
but man, I think he's overzealous. This morning he got a chicken
wing and after eating the first joint off, he swallowed the upper
joint whole! He hasn't acted uncomfortable, quite the contrary (I've
never seen him with soooo much energy!), but I don't know that a
whole chicken bone is healthy inside his system. Wondering what
other's experiences, comments, sugesstions are... Thanks, Erika

Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. swallowing food whole
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:46 pm ((PDT))

Give your Papillon things to eat that start out bigger than his head.
That prevents gulping. Be sure to stick around during the meal to remove
that last gulp-sized bite that is throat-sized and could cause choking.

Carolyn J. Garnaas

Thank you

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7. Soft pork bones
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:38 pm ((PDT))

I have just started feeding raw pork since 5 days ago. For the RMB, I
am giving the soft pork bones, is this considered as bones?
Doreen

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8a. Re: Packaged raw diets
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:38 pm ((PDT))

Reading the Bravo website, I saw
that
> the beef flavor has almost a 5% ash content.

My understanding is the ash is included because it is an FDA regulation so that it is not fit for human consumption.?

Personally, I think its just as easy to feed whole pieces of meat and my dogs enjoy the ripping, knawing and chewing.?

Not sure why you are looking at prepackaged.? It is much more expensive.

?Maureen

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (4)
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8b. Re: Packaged raw diets
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:25 pm ((PDT))

I'm sure there must be, but not the people who hang out at this board. :)
This group feeds a whole lot of various parts of various animals' raw meat,
plus a little bit of bone and a little bit of organ. Just like dogs and cats
evolved while eating.

Lynda

In a message dated 10/23/2007 7:55:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, "Margo
Farnsworth" writes:

Does anyone else do this, a combination of RMBs
and the packaged raw diet?

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (4)
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9. Raw vs. Kibble
Posted by: "Dina" dotdog99@comcast.net dmmelendez
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:15 pm ((PDT))

Hi group--
I had to share this story with a group of people that would "get it"--
and have a good laugh.

I am on a breed list, very narrow minded and not much thinking outside
of "their" little box. Ofcourse whenever raw is brought up in a
discussion, I'll hop in.

This last discussion ended up private and the debate was about the
protein content in kibble--up until this point it had been an
question/answer--then debate--then she began arguing my points--

Long story short:

I told this person that kibble wasn't a true protein source for a
carnivore as it is cooked (and so many other things, I know, but the
little brain couldn't take too much at once) and carnivores don't cook--

Her reply was "and carnivores don't shop...That would eliminate your
raw food plan..."

Obviously a talent in the debating arena.

Sad, sad people...

Still laughing at the stupidity,
Dina Melendez

Messages in this topic (1)
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10. why is my dog eating her poo
Posted by: "maradethc" maradethc@yahoo.com maradethc
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:18 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone. Its so gross my dog is eating poo. I am not sure if its
hers. I have 4 dogs. But maybe she is missing somthing in her diet.
They are on the raw diet. I make my own vegie min and they get chicken
backs. They also eat marro bones to. Is there something i can do. Thanks
Maradeth

Messages in this topic (1)
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11.1. Re: How do you deal w/ vets that blame raw diet
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:26 pm ((PDT))

Gotta lov ya, Jane! Your experience shows. Thanks for always having
a sense of humor, as that's what's needed more than all the
arguments. A pet's health tells the truth, every time, and needs no
defense. Thank you, sincerely, for starting this site.

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "bluegracepwd" <janea@...> wrote:
>> It's probably going to be impossible to refute that sort of
> allegation at a dinner party without looking terribly defensive.
> You could use the other approach of saying, "yes, we're trying to
> see how quickly we can kill our dogs on this diet. So far, we're
> incredibly unsuccessful!"
>
> Good luck.
>
> - Jane
>

Messages in this topic (27)
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12. Re: Bone & raw meat meals?
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:29 pm ((PDT))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.

I know I am giving bones in EVERY meal.........This is wrong????
I don't want my dogs getting runny poop again, which they did when I didn't
have bone in it a couple days ago.....so back to a turkey neck in each
meal. Since they ALWAYS had runny/soft poop before raw.....& with bone in
their raw meals, fir the first time they had normal poop, I would be very
apprehensive not to feed bone?
Trina
new to RAW

On 10/23/07, cynthiashankman <ShankMa4@aol.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> It seems we don't talk enough about "just meaty meals" without bone.
> We talk more about bone meals and it can be misleading to a
> beginner. Especially when we talk about giving chicken with bone in
> for one week -two weeks in the beginning. Then a beginner doesn't
> realize about giving just meaty meals. And the name of the diet is
> confusing too ... "Raw Meaty Bones".
>
> 80% meat; 10% bone; and 10% organ. That is not what the above
> rotation consists of. Right?
>
> Moderators: Could we please talk more about meaty meals, aka no bone
> meals.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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13. Urine output from a puppy on Raw Diet.
Posted by: "naps2003" naps2003@yahoo.com naps2003
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I have been feeding a raw diet to my adult dogs and now my 4 month old
Border Collie pup. Has anyone every had a problem with large amounts
of urine output, as though he can't hold it. I had his urine checked
and the specific gravity is ok in the AM, but he piddles alot, even
when walking around :-( Any thoughts on this?

Messages in this topic (1)
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14. First time feeding raw and . . .
Posted by: "liebo1134" liebo1134@yahoo.com liebo1134
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:31 pm ((PDT))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES PLEASE.

Hey guys my name is Jeremy and I'm new to the group . . . I have a 14 month old American
Pit Bull Terrier named Achilles and have been researching RAW or BARF for quite some time
now . . . i just decided to buy some chicken drumsticks at the local food store (no hormones
injected and no additives or anything) and decided to give it to Achilles tonight . . . anyway I
put him in a small area and put down 2 of the drumsticks and sat right next to him and he
kept smelling them and licking them a lot . . . then he took one of them and nawed on it and
at it pretty fast and then he went immediately to go to the bathroom . . . after that he didn't
touch the 2nd one so i put it in a ziplock bag and threw it out cause i didn't want it to be
exposed for salmonella and stuff like that . . . anyway I have a few questions . . . did i do this
right? why did he only eat 1 if it was his first meal of the day? i disenfected by washing the
floor with a nice lemon disenfectent so i'm assuming i did that write . . . i basically just put
the chicken on paper plates by the way don't know if that was right . . . but yeh anyway i feel
like the chicken drums were cold and maybe he didn't like them that cold? I don't know any
help would be good . . . his 2nd and last meal is going to be solid gold barking at the moon
cause i don't wanna mess everything up with him so quick . . .

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15a. Now what?
Posted by: "Monica" mommyof2gals@comcast.net mommyof2gals
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:34 pm ((PDT))

Some of you might remember, my Loki started suffering from
pancreatitis back in April after a nasty illness of unknown origin.
It took until June to get it under control and was a nightmare during
those two months.

We managed to keep it in check by carefully monitoring fat, primarily
by skinning his poultry.

We finally tried adding back some liver yesterday, as I feel organ
meat is essential to this diet. He had one *tiny* piece (less than 1"
square - he is 60lbs) and he is back to having an upset tummy -
tonight he refused dinner after acting sick all day, and just now
vomitted - mostly water and bile. I have purposely only fed him
skinned chicken quarters this week so I could gauge his reaction to
the organ meat.

If he continues to have an intolerance to organ meat and is limited
on other meat he can eat, will he be nutrient deficient? I already
cannot feed him lamb or veal anymore, he hates fish and rabbit and
the only pork he can tolerate is heavily boned pieces like ribs or
neck bones. His diet is basically chicken and turkey.

I have complete faith in a well-rounded raw diet, but with everything
we've had to omit since April I am as worried as I was when he was on
premium kibble as a pup.

And no, he hasn't had any vaccinations since he was a pup and nothing
else has changed but that little piece of liver.

Thanks
Monica and Loki

Messages in this topic (17)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Tuesday, October 23, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12194

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