Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12223

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Newbi eIntro
From: Andrea
1b. Re: Newbi eIntro
From: Sandee Lee

2a. Re: Allergies in raw vs. cooked meats
From: Tina Berry
2b. Re: Allergies in raw vs. cooked meats
From: girlndocs

3a. pork shoulder blade
From: brutus_buckley
3b. Re: pork shoulder blade
From: Sandee Lee
3c. Re: pork shoulder blade
From: cynthiashankman
3d. Re: pork shoulder blade
From: cmhausrath
3e. Re: pork shoulder blade
From: cmhausrath
3f. Re: pork shoulder blade
From: cynthiashankman
3g. Re: pork shoulder blade
From: Sandee Lee
3h. Beef necks??
From: babyboyfila1
3i. Re: Beef necks??
From: costrowski75
3j. Re: Beef necks??
From: cmhausrath
3k. Re: Beef necks??
From: Yasuko herron

4a. Re: Salmonella question
From: brutus_buckley
4b. Re: Salmonella question
From: Yasuko herron

5a. Re: Eating carcass but not whole chicken?
From: Nicole
5b. Re: Eating carcass but not whole chicken?
From: Laurie Swanson

6. Beef Kidneys/another pregnancy question
From: diannem200400

7a. Re: 7# Chihuahua Ready for more than chicken
From: cynthiashankman
7b. Re: 7# Chihuahua Ready for more than chicken
From: Giselle
7c. Re: 7# Chihuahua Ready for more than chicken
From: Morledzep@aol.com

8a. Re: Dogs Losing Weight Advice
From: mikkeny
8b. Re: Dogs Losing Weight Advice
From: Yasuko herron

Messages
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1a. Re: Newbi eIntro
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:51 pm ((PDT))

No need to apologise! There is a ton of misinformation in the form of
old wive's tales out there. Feel free to voice any concerns you have
about raw feeding. We were all new at one point.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jaygaughan" <jaygaughan@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry Andrea. I'm not trying to debate you on this. It's just
> something I have not heard of in anything I read as far as feeding
> raw. Out of the norm for me.

Messages in this topic (11)
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1b. Re: Newbi eIntro
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:53 pm ((PDT))

Hi Jay,

Sounds like my yard! :)) I feed my Danes chicken, turkey and deer out in
the yard with live chickens, turkey and deer. They haven't chased anything
yet and don't associate them with the food I provide. We've hauled home
some pretty intact fresh carcasses, fresh warm tripe, etc., and I feed fresh
poultry but they don't think of the live ones as food. In fact the biggest
problem around here is the chickens trying to steal the dog's food! It's
pretty funny watching a flock of chickens come running when the dogs get fed
outside, hoping for any little morsel. :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "jaygaughan" <jaygaughan@yahoo.com>

I have a problem with the thought of letting my dog eat any dead
animal that is still intact. I would think this could be very
confusing to my dog. How do you tell him it's okay to eat a dead deer
I drag out of the woods for him and not the ones walking around in my
yard?

It's totally illegal to hunt down animals with a dog here in CT as in
most other states. If anyone sees a dog chasing down a deer or any
game animal they can legally shoot the dog on sight.

I have deer and turkeys in my yard daily. I don't want my dog
thinking its meal time when he smells or sees a deer and starts
chasing one down.

Messages in this topic (11)
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2a. Re: Allergies in raw vs. cooked meats
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:18 pm ((PDT))

"A true food allergen isn't going to go away due to raw... "

Unless it's a grain allergy which is super common. Taking grains out of a
pets diet has eliminated many allergies - but as mentioned, it can also be
other type of allergies not food related.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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2b. Re: Allergies in raw vs. cooked meats
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:01 pm ((PDT))

Golden! Thanks so much Andrea.

This whole episode has reminded me not to spout my mouth off about
information I haven't personally researched and verified.

Kristin

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know that you really need studies to prove it. Someone is
> allergic to something because their body sees a specific protein as
> an antigen and produces antibodies to get rid of it. The protein
> needs to be a specific shape in order for the antibodies to hook up
> with it. Cooking denatures many proteins, that is, it changes their
> shape, so they can't connect with the antibodies anymore. Or vice
> versa, cooking changes the shape of the protein so that it *does*
> hook up with an antibody.

Messages in this topic (7)
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3a. pork shoulder blade
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:18 pm ((PDT))

Just curious: anyone's dog able to eat the whole blade? My oldest
bullie just chews on the ends, but my pup almost ate the whole thing
the other night. I couldn't beleive it! She is a little maniac when it
comes to food.
-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (11)
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3b. Re: pork shoulder blade
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:23 pm ((PDT))

Renee,

The Danes generally eat the entire blade...once in a while there will be a
tiny piece left behind.
Your pup sounds darling! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "brutus_buckley" <brutus_buckley@yahoo.com>

Messages in this topic (11)
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3c. Re: pork shoulder blade
Posted by: "cynthiashankman" ShankMa4@aol.com cynthiashankman
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:51 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:

> The Danes generally eat the entire blade...once in a while there will
be a
> tiny piece left behind.
> Your pup sounds darling!

I have read a lot about pork shoulder here and I want to make sure I
bought the right thing. The piece of bone inside the meat I bought is
retangular in shape. Maybe 8 x 6, like large index card. My 30 lb.
dog at the whole thing except a 1" x 1" piece that was stuck on his
tooth. I just pulled the piece off and threw it away.

Does that sound like the pork shoulder you are all talking about?

Cindi

Messages in this topic (11)
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3d. Re: pork shoulder blade
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:57 pm ((PDT))

"brutus_buckley" <brutus_buckley@...> wrote:

> Just curious: anyone's dog able to eat the whole blade?

Yep. Back in the day, Griff would eat the whole thing at a sitting
(blade roast or picnic roast, whatever I happened to pick up -- never
noticed a difference in his response), as in:
http://rawfeddogs.net/RecipePhoto/32/11

Now, he'll get it spaced out over several days, but he still eats the
whole thing, unless I take parts of it away. Then again, he'll also
eat beef necks, oxtail, and occasionally beef ribs in their entirety.

I'm hoping he likes mutton just as well -- since I have two complete
ewes (heads & all) waiting for me to pick up this weekend.

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (11)
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3e. Re: pork shoulder blade
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:00 pm ((PDT))

"cynthiashankman" <ShankMa4@...> wrote:

> I have read a lot about pork shoulder here and I want to make sure I
> bought the right thing. The piece of bone inside the meat I bought
is
> retangular in shape. Maybe 8 x 6, like large index card.

Well, that doesn't sound like either the picnic roasts or the blade
roasts I usually get (maybe something like a butt roast?), but the good
news is, it hardly matters. All parts of the pig are good feeding, so
if your dog likes it and does well on it, keep it up!!

-- sandy & griffin

Messages in this topic (11)
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3f. Re: pork shoulder blade
Posted by: "cynthiashankman" ShankMa4@aol.com cynthiashankman
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:11 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cmhausrath" <cmhausrath@...> wrote:
>
> Well, that doesn't sound like either the picnic roasts or the blade
> roasts I usually get (maybe something like a butt roast?), but the
good
> news is, it hardly matters. All parts of the pig are good feeding,
so
> if your dog likes it and does well on it, keep it up!!

Thanks! Hmmm I wonder what I had??? Well I feel comfortable now
knowing that all parts of the pig are good feeding. I think next time
I will go to the store and actually as for the picnic roast or the
blade roast.

Thanks!

Cindi

Messages in this topic (11)
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3g. Re: pork shoulder blade
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:00 pm ((PDT))

That's exactly what I've been feeding and it's labeled a pork shoulder blade
roast!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "cynthiashankman" <ShankMa4@aol.com>

Does that sound like the pork shoulder you are all talking about?

Cindi

Messages in this topic (11)
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3h. Beef necks??
Posted by: "babyboyfila1" babyboyfila1@yahoo.com babyboyfila1
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:41 pm ((PDT))

> eat beef necks, oxtail, and occasionally beef ribs in their
entirety.

where in the heck do you get a beef neck?
Dawn

Messages in this topic (11)
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3i. Re: Beef necks??
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:15 pm ((PDT))

"babyboyfila1" <babyboyfila1@...> wrote:
> where in the heck do you get a beef neck?
*****
I can get them by the case from a local supermarket; they get them
whole but for their customers slice them, making the necks even less
useful for my retrievers. I could probably also order some from the
meat wholesaler I buy from, but I haven't asked.

Virtually all beef necks, whether they're purchased sliced or whole,
are lacking meaningful meat. For small dogs the nooks and crannies
probably provide a meaty enough meal; for big dogs whole beef necks
are bones with some meat on them. IMO they are kinder on teeth than
marrow or knuckle bones and carry more meat. They are not
brilliantly meaty though.

Oh, and they're not really whole, they're sliced lengthwise. This
is insult enough, but then most retailers slice the slice crosswise,
which diminishes the size even more.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (11)
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3j. Re: Beef necks??
Posted by: "cmhausrath" cmhausrath@yahoo.com cmhausrath
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:36 pm ((PDT))

"costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "babyboyfila1" <babyboyfila1@> wrote:
> > where in the heck do you get a beef neck?
> *****
> ... Oh, and they're not really whole, they're sliced lengthwise.

Ah, but see, back in the glory days of Griffin's diet, back when
Georgetown Farm in central VA was still raising not only quality beef
but also bison, and selling it at a criminally low price and cut to
specifications -- back then, I got hunks of beef neck that were
dripping with meat, with a nice not-terribly-sliced-up chunk of bone
in the middle. (Something like a half a vertebra per chunk, I
think? I rarely got a good look at them -- Griff motored through
them fairly quickly.) I can't remember what they charged for those,
but I do remember that bags of beef and bison "trim" -- basically odd
hunks of meat, with some fat but not an overwhelming amount -- were
under $1 a pound.

Those low prices may have contributed to the short-lived nature of
the place, but man, while it lasted, it was wonderful.

I'd try asking any beef processor, if you're lucky enough to get to
know one.

-- sandy & griffin (about to re-enter the glory days, once Mom gets
off her butt and picks up the two sheep she's bought)

Messages in this topic (11)
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3k. Re: Beef necks??
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:35 pm ((PDT))

>> where in the heck do you get a beef neck?

Shoppers Grocery store carry Beef Neck,Lamb Neck,Pork Leck too.

the package I have got monthsago is big enough for my dog as is,and I got those packages there and when I feed,I add more boneless meat to it.

If the size was smaller than you want it to be,ask the meat guy behind the counter and he may have something uncut.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (11)
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4a. Re: Salmonella question
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:18 pm ((PDT))

//In other words, she's been eating raw chicken (and some pork ribs)
for a month - so what risks could be involved if she's now fed k**ble
for 4 days??//

***Alex,
There's no need to resort to kibble just because someone else is caring
for your pets. I simply make all my dog's meals, bag and lable them and
leave instructions. Of course, I try to plan meals that aren't going to
freak out my non-raw feeding neighbors. For example, I wouldn't ask
them to feed a goat head while I'm gone <g> but maybe a few boneless
meals or chicken breasts. Even many boarding facilities will feed your
dog raw if you bring the food. When we travel, we do the same thing:
plan out the meals and toss them into a cooler. It's really no big deal.

Also, just because your dog has been 'vax'd2themax' doesn't mean it's
too late to feed raw: quite the opposite! This is a *great* reason to
start feeding raw. A raw diet isn't going to undo years of vaccine
damage; it is not a miracle cure...but it will help and you will see
your dog benefit from this diet.

-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (17)
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4b. Re: Salmonella question
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:35 pm ((PDT))

> maybe a few boneless meals or chicken breasts. Even many boarding facilities will feed your dog raw if you bring the food.

I agree.I asked the boarding place when I was about switching to raw,and they said that they feed whatever owner brings,so,I am planning to label the bag with date/day/pets' name on it and bag up the meal in zip bag frozen except just one meal and hand to staff at boarding place.

I probably would not bag up something that require long gnawing time such as Neck or tail or ribs.. maybe boneless meat from any animals with cut-up poultry like Turkey or chicken etc. That way,staff would not worry about bone thing just as I felt when I was just about starting..If poultry,soft enough to crunch down without too much worry.

I probably try ask them to supervise my dog when eating if possible.

And I probably tell them do not give any biscuit or anything they have at their place.'cause my dog tends to get bad diarrhear if fed commercial made treats now.If your dog is ok with those things,then,fine,but not mine..

yassy

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Messages in this topic (17)
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5a. Re: Eating carcass but not whole chicken?
Posted by: "Nicole" reotec@mertonrush.com.au mammosgrub
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the replys - the drumsticks were frozen inside the cavity
of the chicken frames -so it makes a big frozen lump when frozen -
takes him a while to gnaw it all apart. that shouldnt be a choking
hazard like that should it? It is the same size as the whole chicken
i feed - so no difference in size - but maybe texture and taste?
We are away for the weekend - but will perservere next week with the
whole chicken thing.. thanks for the advice.. it sure makes it easier
to be able to ask questions like these.
kindest regards
nicole and maverick

Messages in this topic (6)
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5b. Re: Eating carcass but not whole chicken?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:12 pm ((PDT))

Nicole,

Sounds like it's probably not a choking hazard like that. Maybe he was
confused since it was thawed that time. I'm sure you'll work it out!
Get back to us if you continue to have issues. Just don't swap things
out and cater to him TOO much or he'll learn to hold out for something
better ("Hmmm...I wonder what I might get if I just don't eat this?").
That said, I do listen to my dog somewhat... :-)

Laurie

Messages in this topic (6)
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6. Beef Kidneys/another pregnancy question
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:43 pm ((PDT))

I have worked my way through most of the archives on rawfeeding
pregnant bitches, but I am still not comfortable I'm doing okay with my
girl. This is my first rawfed pregnancy. She is 130 lbs and about 31/2
weeks pregnant. She loves all raw meat and has never turned down
anything new. About 3 days ago, she stopped eating. I've tried beef,
pork, rabbit and venison, no go. She will eat beef or pork tongue, and
a tad of beef heart and craves organ meats. I think she would eat
those exclusively if I let her. I know not to overdo the liver, but I
wonder how much beef kidney I can safely give her. She will not touch
fat and does not want any bone. This morning I gave her a few pieces
of Natural Balance Beef and Rice roll that I use for show training, and
she wolfed them down. Questions: How much beef kidney is too much?
Should I feed her some NB roll during this time just to get an array of
vitamins and minerals in her? Do any of you rawfeeding breeders have
any advice for this refusal to eat?

THANKS for any responses.

Dianne M.

Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Re: 7# Chihuahua Ready for more than chicken
Posted by: "cynthiashankman" ShankMa4@aol.com cynthiashankman
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:01 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, autumnji@... wrote:
>
> she's been doing great on chicken backs, organs
> and necks for over 2 months. i mean really great.
> she'll do anything i ask, for me to please put that bowl down.
> moving on is long overdue.

Sorry to be a pest here, but isn't the above menu way to high in
bone. Shouldn't we explain to Autumn that her chi needs 80% meat. I
don't feel at liberty to explain that as I am so new to this myself
and I'm trying to understand all this theory behind this too. How
could the dog be thriving on so little meat???

I am not trying to be a pest, I'm just trying to undersand the
learning curve for all of us alone in our houses, bucking the system,
doing this with one dog, coming from a conventional place, feeling
like a bit of a weirdo while everyone else we know is feeding ki$$le.

A bit of an insight from this recent newbie ... this is hard and even
though we are in a healthy state of mind, we can still do it wrong.
A person can do a good thing incorrectly. We are all trying to do
right by our dogs.

Messages in this topic (6)
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7b. Re: 7# Chihuahua Ready for more than chicken
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:45 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Cynthia and Autumn!
Cynthia, you're right, new-to-raw peeps
do need to learn the basics of raw feeding. They do need the help, advice
and support from experienced raw feeders on this list. And many of us are
pleased to be able to help those who come to this list for the best ways to
feed a species appropriate raw whole prey model diet.

But many of these same people seem to blow off the files sent to them as new
subscribers, don't read them, don't print them out, don't follow the links
or don't take in the significance of the information provided to their own
dogs.

A lot of them have read so much dreck online and in the 'experts' books that
they are very confused, and can't remember where they read what information,
and so skip a lot of the important info provided by the files, don't follow
the links and don't search the archived messages on this list. They simply
have information overload, and can't figure out what's relevant and
important for them to remember, and what's not.

Also, many new subscribers don't take the time to give complete or coherent
information in their posts, or even have the courtesy to sign their names or
tell us about their dogs so that we can know and care about who we are asked
to help.

Those of us who volunteer our time to answer questions by newbies who don't
do their 'homework' can get burned out by the sheer volume of the sameness
of the questions posted.

We DO remember what it was like being a newbie to raw, that is why we stay
active on the list, and offer our experience, advice and support. Many of us
have been raw feeding for 5, 10, 15, 20 or more years, and feed multiple
dogs. We came to raw feeding by critical thinking, trial and error, and not
a lot of support or ready made information.

That said, feeding raw to your dogs doesn't take the mental ability of a
rocket scientist, its not brain surgery. ^_^

It takes common sense, trust in yourself as a competent adult, and the
knowledge that dogs are wolves, and both are carnivores. Being carnivorous
means that you eat the critters that eat the vegetation. You don't need a
grinder, or a food processor, or a juicer. You don't need supplements or
additives, all your nutrients are in one package. You take advantage of
seasonal prey, you follow it when it migrates if necessary. And, if you find
yourself in lean times or without a pack to help you take down large
critters, you catch mice, or rabbits, or birds, or you fish.

Whether a dog weighs 2 pounds or 200 pounds, they all need plenty of meat, a
little edible bone, and some organs. Common sense will tell you that a pack
of 2 pound wolves would search out small prey, and a pack of 200 pound
wolves would need very large prey indeed. ; )

The 80% meatymeat (muscle, skin, fat, connective tissue), 10% edible bone
and 10% organ (5% of which is liver, 5% is 'other') is a helpful GUIDELINE,
not a hard and fast rule. Truth is, each prey animal has a different
percentage of meat to bone to organ ratio, and each one is 'perfect' for
that critter. The larger the critter, the less available edible bone,
depending on the size of your dogs. A specific ratio is helpful to be able
to quote to newbies, who want to be TOLD what and how much to feed by
EXPERTS and want hard and fast RULES to follow. There is plenty of variation
in the amount of 'perfect' meatymeat to edible bone to organs needed by each
individual dog. The closer you feed to prey model, the closer you get to
'perfect' feeding for your own dog.

Short term - limited protein sources, too much or too little edible bone and
organs doesn't matter too much to a dog's health. But, Balance Over Time IS
important, and the sooner after you start raw that you begin to add in a
variety of protein, edible bone and organs in the form of whole prey or
animal parts, the better for your dog's long term optimum health.

Here's a link to the list's files. There's some very good reading and
informative links there;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/files/

The archives, if you use some simple search keywords, like new to raw,
newbie, puppy, etc. can turn up many helpful messages;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?date=before&DM=9&DD=20&DY=2007&DM2=------------&DD2=----&DY2=----&AM=contains&AT=&SM=contains&ST=new+to+raw+newbie&MM=contains&MT=&charset=UTF-8
*http://tinyurl.com/2wjp9z
*
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?date=any&DM=------------&DD=----&DY=----&DM2=------------&DD2=----&DY2=----&AM=contains&AT=&SM=contains&ST=new+to+raw+newbie+puppy&MM=contains&MT=&charset=UTF-8
*
**http://tinyurl.com/38lrqk

*Some informational links to websites and archived posts that are helpful to
new to raw people, no matter the size of their dogs; *
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawlearning.com/supplementmyths.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

http://rawfeddogs.net/FAQlist

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/144402

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/144075

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/143301
Some online sources of whole prey;

http://www.rodentpro.com/products.asp

http://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFront

http://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=23

www.taylorpondfarm*s*.com/ <http://www.taylorpondfarms.com/>

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts.html
TC, Cynthia, and Autumn - let us know how you progress with raw feeding your
dogs!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 10/30/07, cynthiashankman <ShankMa4@aol.com> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>,
> autumnji@... wrote:
> >
> > she's been doing great on chicken backs, organs
> > and necks for over 2 months. i mean really great.
> > she'll do anything i ask, for me to please put that bowl down.
> > moving on is long overdue.
>
> Sorry to be a pest here, but isn't the above menu way to high in
> bone. Shouldn't we explain to Autumn that her chi needs 80% meat. I
> don't feel at liberty to explain that as I am so new to this myself
> and I'm trying to understand all this theory behind this too. How
> could the dog be thriving on so little meat???
>
> I am not trying to be a pest, I'm just trying to undersand the
> learning curve for all of us alone in our houses, bucking the system,
> doing this with one dog, coming from a conventional place, feeling
> like a bit of a weirdo while everyone else we know is feeding ki$$le.
>
> A bit of an insight from this recent newbie ... this is hard and even
> though we are in a healthy state of mind, we can still do it wrong.
> A person can do a good thing incorrectly. We are all trying to do
> right by our dogs.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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7c. Re: 7# Chihuahua Ready for more than chicken
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:58 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/30/2007 3:02:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ShankMa4@aol.com writes:

***seriously.. chicken backs and necks.. are TOO MUCH BONE. This can and will
cause constipation and possibly impaction over time..

but one of the big things that all newbies have to get over is making this
hard for themselves.

we try to mimick a prey animal fed over time. and you basic average prey
animal is APPROXIMATELY (this varies from one prey animal to the next.. these are
only approximate percentages) 10% edible bone, 10% organ meats (liver,
kidney, sweetbreads, lungs, spleen. Heart is considered a muscle meat because it's
almost solid muscle even though it is an internal organ). The rest.. skin,
meat, fat, connective tissue, fat, meat, digestive tract parts, etc. is about
80% of the overall diet.

the thing to do is stop worrying so much about percentages.. feed MEAT, MEAT
on a bone, and organs. It seriously isn't any more difficult than that.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (6)
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8a. Re: Dogs Losing Weight Advice
Posted by: "mikkeny" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:28 pm ((PDT))

> Here's the problem: both of my dogs are pretty significantly
> underweight.

>> Is their weight loss likely just a lack of fat in their diet?

Menhaden is an oily fish, but also bony...I would think that it's more
a lack of meat in the diet than anything. Menhaden aren't
particularly meaty, you know?

>Would adding pork fat
> to the fish be helpful or cause more problems? We just this weekend
> found a good price on bulk chicken "giblet" packages (the neck/organs
> found stuffed inside grocery store chickens), so I'm adding that, but
> is that likely to directly help this issue?

Any extra meat you can get into them would be wonderful and meat would
be more desirable than fat, since they likely get plenty of fat from
the fish.

Are you in the US? If so, it's deer season and there's free bounty to
be had if you can hook up with the right folks...

Casey

Messages in this topic (4)
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8b. Re: Dogs Losing Weight Advice
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:04 pm ((PDT))

Why not trying fatty cut of meat;mutton,lamb??

If you live in US,mutton can be found at hare today in PA.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (4)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Wednesday, October 31, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12223

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