Feed Pets Raw Food: Oct 14, 2007

Sunday, October 14, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12161

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Hives, Dogs get hives?
From: Virginia Snider
1b. Re: Hives, Dogs get hives?
From: Casey Post

2a. Re: My dog has a chicken allergy.
From: Renate

3a. Re: Is this true? J' question?
From: Jai
3b. Re: Is this true? J' question?
From: susrob061174

4.1. Re: New to group
From: Giselle
4.2. Re: New to group
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: a question on beef
From: kickrocks54

6a. Re: Not constipated, just no poop
From: Yasuko herron

7a. Is this true?
From: Delinda Harmon
7b. Re: Is this true?
From: costrowski75

8a. Ear infection
From: great_dane_devotee

9a. Still a Newbie to this
From: totaly_his
9b. Re: Still a Newbie to this
From: costrowski75
9c. Re: Still a Newbie to this
From: Yasuko herron
9d. Re: Still a Newbie to this
From: carnesbill

10a. HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting??
From: alexanderdewey
10b. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
From: temy1102
10c. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
From: Tracy P-C
10d. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
10e. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
From: Casey Post
10f. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
10g. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
From: Giselle
10h. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
From: T Smith

11a. Re: Wretching Dog
From: patrice_quinn

Messages
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1a. Hives, Dogs get hives?
Posted by: "Virginia Snider" vsnider@cogeco.ca rawbglass
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:45 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

My Pug, (11 mos), was slipped a chicken wiener yesterday and today has mild
hives. He had a much worse reaction about 2 weeks ago when given a
pepperoni dog treat.

When I first got him he had been on the cheapest cardboard available, going
4 times a day. He's been doing pretty well for the last few months, with
the exception of intro to organs, (and now I know firsthand the true meaning
of cannon butt :-))

I never knew dogs got hives. What gives? Is it some sort of grain problem?

TIA, you guys are a real help,

Virginia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: Hives, Dogs get hives?
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:52 pm ((PDT))

> I never knew dogs got hives. What gives? Is it some sort of grain
> problem?

An allergic reaction to something, surely.

More reason to feed this dog raw - so you know exactly what is going into
him...

Casey

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: My dog has a chicken allergy.
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT))

You can't know if it's an allergy or not without specific IGe tests.
Sensitivities and allergies are all quite alike in how they behave. It's
like a tap dripping into a bucket. There are things that trigger a drip
(reaction) and at a certain point the bucket overflows. It may be a mild
reaction to something but if the bucket is full, it will overflow. So the
thing to do is to lighten the overall load.

Also, cooked and raw things can cause totally different reactions or
non-reactions. Because the proteins are altered during cooking.

Renate

> form and he may do just fine with raw? Has anyone else had this
> > issue?
> >
> I agree with Bill, it is most likely the cooked chicken in the kibble
> or almost any of the other ingredients they put in there. Don't rule
> out a nutritious and cheap source of food based on kibble.
>
> I believe that 'allergy' is one of the most overused terms of the
> century. A dog whose immune system is under attack from inappropriate
> foods is likely to be more 'intolerant' of certain things. This is
> not an allergy.
>
> Jo
>
>
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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3a. Re: Is this true? J' question?
Posted by: "Jai" jredwing@windstream.net onesupercat
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT))

Susanne,
Where are you in GA? I am in N. GA., near Dalton.
Jai...>^.^<...

He told me that it was agaisnt the law to give the organs out.
Susanne

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Is this true? J' question?
Posted by: "susrob061174" susrob061174@yahoo.com susrob061174
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:59 pm ((PDT))

I guess you can call it Mid East Georgia. About 52 miles east of
Macon, GA and about 12 north of Dublin, Ga. Back country, I may add.

Susanne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jai" <jredwing@...> wrote:
>
> Susanne,
> Where are you in GA? I am in N. GA., near Dalton.
> Jai...>^.^<...

Messages in this topic (2)
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4.1. Re: New to group
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:06 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Cindy!
Welcome to the raw side! ^_^

Here's an archived post with suggestions to begin raw feeding. It includes a
great compilation of ideas for how to find a variety of raw for your dog.;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*

You can print the info out for future reference if you want.

btw, don't think "meaty Bones", think "MEAT with a little bone", much more
helpful! Organs can wait, but you can fed what you can get with whole
chickens.*
*
I have to say that you have done the best thing by deciding to feed your dog
raw. Kibble has so many inappropriate ingredients, and its all cooked to
boot, that it can cause a lot of problems. Raw is species appropriate and so
much more bioavailable, that I'm sure your guy will get the nutrients he
needs to be less itchy real soon and be able to wean off the pred.

Be prepared, tho'. Some dogs are not only sensitive to Kibble, but have
inhalant allergies to such things as pollen, molds and mildew. As well as
environmental pollutants, such as common everyday chemicals that we use on
ourselves, our dogs, house and yards, even what carpets and fabrics are made
of or treated with can off gas and cause itchy skin in dogs. So, while you
and your dog are learning about raw feeding, try to review what chemicals he
is exposed to, and reduce these to the absolute minimum. I'm sure that you
will see a terrific difference in him soon!

A few websites to help with raw feeding, too;

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

http://mypetcarnivore.com/dogs_eating.htm

TC and keep us posed with your progress! What's your dog's name?

Giselle

with Bea in New Jersey
<http://mypetcarnivore.com/dogs_eating.htm>

On 10/14/07, cwnsc <cwells5@charter.net> wrote:
>
> My Golden suffers from skin problems. He was put on prednisone and is
> not himself. I am beginning raw feeding today. I have found all
> local grocers in my area do not carry organs - they rely on shipped in
> packaged products - no meaty bones - no butchers. I was able to find
> ox tails and turkey necks.
> Cindy
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (80)
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4.2. Re: New to group
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:46 pm ((PDT))

"cwnsc" <cwells5@...> wrote:>
> My Golden suffers from skin problems. He was put on prednisone and is
> not himself.
*****
Oh I expect not! Poor dog. We must get him off the Pred as soon as we
can (safely of course) and start him on the road to wellness. I had a
golden with "allergies" and skin issues but was fortunate enough not to
have succumbed to Pred...and then of course to have discovered raw.
Can you say BIG DIFFERENCE?

I have found all
> local grocers in my area do not carry organs - they rely on shipped
in
> packaged products - no meaty bones - no butchers.
*****
Hmm. Where have you been looking? If local grocers don't (how odd),
then branch out to chain supermarkets that offer a larger selection.

I have always been able to find without too much effort the basic whole
chicken, chicken parts including gizzards, hearts and liver; pork
shoulders (although some have been awfully small for a golden) and
other boneless pork parts; frozen (probably enhanced) whole turkeys;
various beef parts (boneless is not only fine, it's generally
recommended) plus beef liver; and very often some token offering of
lamb. Keep looking!

I was able to find
> oxe tails and turkey necks.
*****
I would without question postpone oxtails for now, if not
indefinitely. Unless what you got is one glorious whole length of
oxtail that your dog can really work on, the product is a collection of
small, mostly bony sections that are just the right size to encourage
gluttony, particularly in a novice dog.

Turkey necks may be useful, but I have never felt comfortable feeding
them (at least not the hen necks sold in most markets) to my Labs and
goldens. Even my BC when she was still quite a baby chomped right
through a hen neck and swallowed the last two-ish inches in a grand
gesture. No thanks, I don't do turkey necks, except to give to my
cat. Others have found them successful, so the choice is yours. If
you have an enthusiastic golden you might want to delay feeding the
turkey necks as well.

I suggest two things to start: chicken parts and a good browse of the
archived messages. You can buy a whole chicken and cut it up, you can
buy leg quarters ready to hand out, you can buy rib-in breasts. These
are plenty good enough to begin with.

The list archives will answer most of the questions you have, including
how to deal with poorly stocked grocers. Here's how to join
Yahoogroups so you can access the Rawfeeding message archives:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

Additionally, here are a couple websites you will find useful:
http://rawfed.com
http://rawfeddogs.net

Chris O

Messages in this topic (80)
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5a. Re: a question on beef
Posted by: "kickrocks54" kick_rocks54@hotmail.com kickrocks54
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:32 pm ((PDT))

great, thanks guys. He's doing well eating the ribs and chewing on the
bones a bit, but the big help was the comment about rushing in and
causing digestive problems. last couple days hes been having some
nasty mucusy stool. im actually getting a little discouraged. ill
probably take it easy on the beef and stick to chicken quarters as his
main staple for a bit. maybe give him a small amount of hamburger to
get him used to it? anyway, thanks again.

adam and rabbit

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: Not constipated, just no poop
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:39 pm ((PDT))

Tracy,

After switching to raw,my dog's poo times got lessen andvolume got lessen too.

Now,after about 5 months from diet change,my dog does poo about 1 per day maybe about pinky finger size or little more but not as much as times on kibble.

Very rare but sometimes,she gets no poo too.

Don't be alarmed.It is just that digested and no waste to poop out.

If you feed mostly grain(unnecessary food for dogs and cannot utelize),you can see the difference how much difference poo volume would makes... maybe you see 3 times more of volume or something I imagine..

As long as yourdog seems fine and not walking around with back hunching or something,I would not worry about it.

yassy

---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Is this true?
Posted by: "Delinda Harmon" dharmon@homenetnw.net delinda_harmon
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:40 pm ((PDT))

Tracy,

I have known plenty of hunters who eat the organs right after the kill. So
I know it is not illegal here in Washington state either. I think the guy
just may have objections to raw feeding the organs to a pet.

Delinda

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: Is this true?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:31 pm ((PDT))

"trayc2244" <BreeZ119@...> wrote:
He told me that it was agaisnt the law
> to give the organs out. He said they had to be sent to the CDC. Have
> you guys heard of this?
*****
For the most part I'd say the guy is confused. However, I know
California is freaked out by the potential for CWD to find its way
across state lines; perhaps this organ round up is related to a CWD
scare in your state. What state are you in?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Ear infection
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:06 pm ((PDT))

My Flat Coat Retriever appears to be having an ear infection. She's a dog who has pretty bad
allergies and I took her off of her Chinese herbs when I switched her to raw. The herbs are
specialy formulated for a variety of needs and given under the supervision of her chiropractic
vet. Does moving a dog to raw generate a cleansing process in the dog, like fasting does for
a human? So this is just a part of the balancing of her body? Or is it just seasonal allergies
acting up in the fall. I have an appt with her regular vet tomorrow.

Since she has been on raw, I've definitely noticed she has been happier. She's actually been
playing with our other dog--nicely! It's kind of a shock since she has a thyroid imbalance
and has tended to be cranky.

Thanks for your input.

Libby

Amica and Serena

Messages in this topic (11)
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9a. Still a Newbie to this
Posted by: "totaly_his" totaly_his@yahoo.com totaly_his
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:06 pm ((PDT))

I have a few questions:
Does frozen raw food have a "shelf life"?
When I feed my dog the raw food, do I wash it real well before giving
it?
When I begin feeding, do I buy organic meats or just buy what my local
supermarket carries?
Without so many of you "veteran" rawfeeders out there to help us
newbies begin this, we would be up a creek. Thanks for all your
experience in helping us start this great way of feeding.
Thank you, Jackie

Messages in this topic (4)
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9b. Re: Still a Newbie to this
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:45 pm ((PDT))

"totaly_his" <totaly_his@...> wrote:
> Does frozen raw food have a "shelf life"?
*****
Not so a dog would notice, no.

> When I feed my dog the raw food, do I wash it real well before giving
> it?
*****
Heck no. Just feed it. Sometimes and for my own tolerances--if the
meat is gotten stinky and/or slimy from languishing in the fridge too
long--I will rinse the meat but truly this is for my nose, not my dogs'
stomachs.

> When I begin feeding, do I buy organic meats or just buy what my
local
> supermarket carries?
*****
You really ought not waste your money on organic meats. Livestock fed
organic soybeans are still inappropriately fed; and organic corn is
still corn and is still another inappropriate food. Organic is rarely
required to meet the needs of a species appropriate diet.

If you want to direct your money most effectively, buy grassfed
livestock and freerange poultry. The food these animals eat may not be
organic but it will be real and correct, which in terms of health is
more relevant by far.

If you can't find or afford grassfed meats, buy what you can at the
supermarket and from other sources; don't let the absence of perfection
bog down your progress. FWIW, goat and most lamb sold in the US are
grassfed.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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9c. Re: Still a Newbie to this
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:54 pm ((PDT))

>Does frozen raw food have a "shelf life"?

I think frozen for human maybe,but for dogs,I doubt it. I know that someone on this list got nice frozen meat from somebody who kept meat about 5 years and her/his dog was ok eating it,I remember the post.so,probably ok for old meat that is frozen.

>When I feed my dog the raw food, do I wash it real well before giving it?

I once have read that people dunk the meat into grape seed extract to kill bacteria or something,but I just feed as is and no washing.My dog is 2 years old but doing fine for last 5 months now.

Dog lick the paws after walking around the neighborhood and seem no ill effect and some dogs loves eating other dogs' poo andstill no ill efect,so,I think that meat's bacteria is no prob.

Dog has shorter intestine than human so, what we cannot eat is not necessary be bad for them.If you worry about salmonella,then,dog has short intestine so,before the bacteria tries to infect dogs,the bacteria poop out in feces and dog do not get sick from it.

Human has long intestine andfood stay in body longer than dogs.So,when you eat something that is infected by bacteria,the bacteria tries to infect you and since you have longer intestine,before it gets poop out,you get infected by the bacteria;bacteria gets more chance to grow in longer intestine.

>When I begin feeding, do I buy organic meats or just buy what my local grocery carry?
If you could afford grassfed meat,then great,but it is costy. Grocery meat is ok.
Just watch out not to buy meat seasoned or meat in brined or meat that has broth injected etc.Those tend to irritate dog's stomach.

yassy

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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9d. Re: Still a Newbie to this
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:55 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "totaly_his" <totaly_his@...> wrote:
>
> Does frozen raw food have a "shelf life"?

Not really ... I often get meat from friends thats been in their
freezer for 2 or 3 or more years. I fed some the other night that had
a 2002 date on it.

> When I feed my dog the raw food, do I wash it real well
> before giving it?

No need.

> When I begin feeding, do I buy organic meats or just buy what
> my local supermarket carries?

I buy what my local supermarket carries and what I can beg off
friends. :) :) :)

> Without so many of you "veteran" rawfeeders out there to help us
> newbies begin this, we would be up a creek.

Not really. It's pretty hard to do it wrong. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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10a. HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting??
Posted by: "alexanderdewey" alexanderdewey@yahoo.com alexanderdewey
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:06 pm ((PDT))

+++++Mod note: pls sign your emails +++++++++++

I KNOW this is the forum for RAW but please help. My 46 lb pit ate a
twix bar 15 minutes ago. Should I induce vomiting? She's never
accidently consumed chocolate before. You can reply directly to my
email. Thanks!

Messages in this topic (8)
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10b. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
Posted by: "temy1102" ahn.tammy@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:24 pm ((PDT))

If she doesn't decide to vomit by herself, she's probably fine. You
may have some funky diarrhea to deal with later though. It actually
takes more chocolate than you would think to harm a dog, especially a
big one. I had a 6 lb. chihuahua eat a box of truffles and was fine.
The higher the percentage of cocoa, the higher the danger, so with
milk chocolate, especially a twix bar that's mostly cookie and
caramel, I don't think you have anything to worry about. But of
course, if she's acting strangely (besides a sugar high), call an
emergency vet.

-Tammy

Messages in this topic (8)
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10c. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
Posted by: "Tracy P-C" tpreston721@yahoo.com tpreston721
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:25 pm ((PDT))

I wouldn't worry about it too much - Just keep an eye on her - It is usually Baker's Chocolate or dark chocolate that cause problems in dogs - I had my Rottweiler eat to chocolate candy bars (my husband left them out) when she was younger - The only problem she had was a little tummy ache, but nothing to worry about - Good luck with her

Tracy

alexanderdewey <alexanderdewey@yahoo.com> wrote:
+++++Mod note: pls sign your emails +++++++++++

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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10d. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:55 pm ((PDT))

Alexander,
Have you been able to take care of the problem, haven't seen anymore emails?
Did you go to the vet, did you enduce vomiting?
How is the dog doing now?

Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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10e. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:10 pm ((PDT))

> I KNOW this is the forum for RAW but please help. My 46 lb pit ate a
> twix bar 15 minutes ago. Should I induce vomiting? She's never
> accidently consumed chocolate before. You can reply directly to my
> email.

A Twix bar - like the milk chocolate/cookie/caramel thing? If so, that
would NOT CONCERN ME AT ALL. There isn't enough chocolate in there to so
much as phase the liver of a healthy 46 lb dog. Her liver isn't even going
to blink at that amount/type of chocolate.

Your girl will be FINE.

The sugar, on the other hand, may result in some squirty poops. And if
she's prone to yeasty ears, you may see an increase in yeastiness (from the
sugar).

But this is NOT a life-threatening situation. It's just another example of
the fine opportunistic nature of our beloved carnivores.

Casey

Messages in this topic (8)
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10f. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:28 pm ((PDT))

I forgot to say, with larger dogs, it is usually ok, and a twix is not alot of chocolate, more cookie and gooey, and then chocolate. So if he hasn't done any weird stuff, probably ok.
Hope all is well.
Jeni

----- Original Message ----
From: John and Jeni Blackmon <jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 7:36:42 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting??

Alexander,
Have you been able to take care of the problem, haven't seen anymore emails?
Did you go to the vet, did you enduce vomiting?
How is the dog doing now?

Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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10g. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:24 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Alexander!
How is your dog doing?

Here's a couple links, both about chocolate toxicity, and one with other
poison warnings and the ASPCA poison control center number;
http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/dtoxin.html
http://www.gsrne.org/Chocolate.htm

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 10/14/07, alexanderdewey <alexanderdewey@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> +++++Mod note: pls sign your emails +++++++++++
>
> I KNOW this is the forum for RAW but please help. My 46 lb pit ate a
> twix bar 15 minutes ago. Should I induce vomiting? She's never
> accidentally consumed chocolate before. You can reply directly to my
> email. Thanks!
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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10h. Re: HELP!! Dog just ate a whole twix bar - should I induce vomiting?
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:52 pm ((PDT))

He should be totally fine.
Trina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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11a. Re: Wretching Dog
Posted by: "patrice_quinn" patrice@patricequinn.com patrice_quinn
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:07 pm ((PDT))

Thank you, Jo, I will keep that in mind. Right now Sadie is eating 5-
6 oz. of baby food meats per day without any difficulty. However, her
esophagus must still be slightly injured and healing as we gave her a
couple of very small, soft pieces of meat yesterday and she
immediately had that gagging reflex kick in for a little bit. So
we're thinking of pureeing some raw ground london broil and see how
she does with that for another few days before we re-introduce chunks
of meat again and then go from there. But I do understand your point
that bones are important for many reasons, Patrice

Messages in this topic (15)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12160

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: how long to hold out with not eating
From: Jolene Nelson

2a. Re: Raw Food
From: Loraine Jesse
2b. Re: Raw Food
From: costrowski75
2c. Re: Raw Food
From: jennifer_hell
2d. Re: Raw Food
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: Whole Pork Shoulder
From: costrowski75

4.1. constipated dog
From: Vom Eishenblick Rottweilers
4.2. Re: constipated dog
From: angela182548

5a. Not constipated, just no poop
From: trayc2244
5b. Re: Not constipated, just no poop
From: Casey Post
5c. Re: Not constipated, just no poop
From: trayc2244

6a. Re: What do I feed my dane pup that's recovering from Parvo?
From: pelirojita

7.1. New to group
From: cwnsc
7.2. Re: New to group
From: Sandee Lee
7.3. Re: New to group
From: katkellm
7.4. Raw Feeding
From: cwnsc

8a. Poo
From: abeautiful3
8b. Re: Poo
From: jennifer_hell
8c. Re: Poo
From: carnesbill

9a. Re: switching kitten to raw
From: Renate

10a. Re: Finding rabbit
From: Renate

11a. Re: Gathering Info.
From: Renate

12a. Is this true?
From: trayc2244
12b. Re: Is this true?
From: susrob061174

13. Re: Lamb for raw feeders?
From: Renate

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: how long to hold out with not eating
Posted by: "Jolene Nelson" imperial_bloodlines@yahoo.com imperial_bloodlines
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:34 am ((PDT))

>>>Is 4-5 days
usually the longest amount of time. Thanks, Joy>>>>

Trust me your dog will not starve himself to death. Try shredding a chicken breast to open it up a little bit to get his interest. Or you can take a skin on chicken breast and sear it very lightly so it gives off an odor to get his interest.

Try him with different meats, pork or beef ground up with some egg and a little cheese in it or something smelly like sardines mixed in.

Good luck and again, he WILL NOT STARVE!

Jolene

Jolene Nelson
I'm a proud Raw Bully owner!
Imperial Bulldoggs

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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2a. Re: Raw Food
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:34 am ((PDT))

Hi Jennifer,
Great post. May I share as a newbie myself on this group and being on other groups, I do understand the rules that are set to keep us on track about raw feeding. I believe raw chat has been set up so if the subject goes off topic, it can be continued there. There are some groups where the subjects have gone so far off of topic that you really wonder if you are in the right group. I have to admit there are times on this group that I am concerned going off topic, so yeah I get a tad uptight. But all in all, I am so grateful to now have a full, proper understanding of this diet. My concerns and worries have been addressed.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.comFrom: kali_moonwolf@yahoo.comDate: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 08:33:45 +0000
_________________________________________________________________
Send a smile, make someone laugh, have some fun! Start now!
http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Raw Food
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:33 am ((PDT))

"Jennifer" <kali_moonwolf@...> wrote:
> So they get it, so they don't. Not a big deal. If you are imitating
> nature and you hunt and have access to a full carcass, then great,
> let the dog go at it and see what he eats! If not, Im sure he'll be
> fine with the easily procurred meat and bones from the store.
*****
I'd have to ditch Billinghurst and add organs, but other than that, I
agree.

Americans probably moreso than any other culture love to make simple
things complicated. It's as if a procedure's value is judged not by
its success but rather its complexity.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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2c. Re: Raw Food
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:50 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

>
> Americans probably moreso than any other culture love to make simple
> things complicated. It's as if a procedure's value is judged not by
> its success but rather its complexity.
> Chris O
>

Aw, no, Chris- Germans beat them effortlessly. Everybody here feeds
veggies, algae, oils, some kind of herbs and so on and so on. It's
driving me bonkers.
Sorry for the OT!!

Jennifer with Mandy from Germany (we're not on German forums/ groups
because they all pretty much feed barf, meh!)

Messages in this topic (5)
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2d. Re: Raw Food
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:06 am ((PDT))

"jennifer_hell" <jenniferhell@...> wrote:
>> Aw, no, Chris- Germans beat them effortlessly.
*****
Well then. It's reassuring to know where we got it from.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Whole Pork Shoulder
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:54 am ((PDT))

"thebestformyboys" <llb6984@...> wrote:
Cooper is
> huge....a big gentle giant. He looks good at 76-78lbs. Nice waist,
> very muscular. He will not swim, but loves to run. Right now he
could
> stand to lose maybe 3lbs. My husband disagrees and thinks he's
> perfect. Logan has a bad hip from an injury and will not run too
much
> at all,he is incredibly lazy too, but he does love to swim.
*****
I urge you to get those pounds off Cooper and consider having Logan's
thyroid checked--just to make sure the battle you're fighting isn't
more than "just" excess calories. Goldens are famous for having
thyroid issues.

I also recommend you work on your husband's appreciation of chubby
goldens. Excess weight taxes the heart and other organs, and the
joints. You're right, they should be trim. You should be able to
feel their ribs down there underneath all that coat. A comfortably
trim golden with a blown coat may show a lot of bone but the bones
will not have much padding.

Fortunately, muscle weighs more than fat, so a fully muscled and fit
rawfed golden may look leaner than a kibblefed golden but weigh the
same or more. So don't just go by the scale, use your hands and your
eyes to see what's happening.

> I'm feeding approx. 1lb at night and 8oz. in the morning for Cooper
> and 5 for Logan. Think this is too much?
*****
I was feeding my field golden (yes, another animal altogether) a
pound and a half a day to keep him tidily at 70lb. It seems like a
reasonable enough amount to be feeding Cooper but how it looks on him
is more important than how it looks on the scale. Adjust if you have
to in order to keep him trim.

Do you think I can try some pork now? They've only had
> chick, beef and turkey, since going prey model. Should I wait
longer
> to add more things? 7 days today.
*****
I think you're going to feed yourself into loose stools but since
loose stools invariably indicate little more than too much (too much
food, too much fat, too much new), you can always back off if things
get messy. If loose stools don't worry you, go for it. It's
entirely possible they will take the new meat in stride.

At seven days I would probably be relying still on chicken but I
definitely would be adding small amounts of other meats to the meals.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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4.1. constipated dog
Posted by: "Vom Eishenblick Rottweilers" vomeishenblick@hotmail.com vomeishenblick
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:20 am ((PDT))

one of my girls is constipated not sure what to do . she has been
trying hard to poop. forcing alot ect... a bit came out today but not
much after I gave her a enima. there was a tinge of blood and very
hard poop (she did yelp a bit) when it came out. I had given her rib
bones for chewing. (will never do that again)! anyting else I can do ??
please help !

thanks,
Brenda Dumesnil

Messages in this topic (32)
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4.2. Re: constipated dog
Posted by: "angela182548" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:55 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Vom Eishenblick Rottweilers"
<vomeishenblick@...> wrote:
>
> one of my girls is constipated not sure what to do . she has been
> trying hard to poop. forcing alot ect...

I was just wondering if your little girl is doing better?
Angela

Messages in this topic (32)
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5a. Not constipated, just no poop
Posted by: "trayc2244" BreeZ119@catt.com trayc2244
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:04 am ((PDT))

I am really worried. I now have my rescue dog and switched her to raw
Friday. I have fed her chicken twice a day since Friday. So she has
now had around 5-6 meals. She doesn't seem to be in distress, but she
hasn't pooped AT ALL since I have had her. She is acting fine, and her
abdomen isn't hard. But I'm sure it isn't healthy for that meat to be
sitting in her stomach. Please please tell me what I can do to get
things moving along.

Thanks so much
Tracy

Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: Not constipated, just no poop
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:24 pm ((PDT))

>She doesn't seem to be in distress, but she
> hasn't pooped AT ALL since I have had her.

Tracy,

This isn't terribly uncommon for new to raw dogs (and cats). Their bodies
are starved for proper nutrition and are assimilating just about everything
you're putting into them, raw-wise.

The meat isn't "sitting in her stomach" - it's been digested and utilized.
I expect you'll see a poop soon, but in the meantime I wouldn't be overly
concerned - sounds like she's feeling just fine.

If you're still worried, a few boneless meals will soften things up and
maybe produce what you're looking for.

Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
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5c. Re: Not constipated, just no poop
Posted by: "trayc2244" BreeZ119@catt.com trayc2244
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:56 pm ((PDT))

Casey,
Thank you so much. I was so worried about this. I thought that since
she was fed science diet Friday morning before she came to me that she
would at least need to get that out. But thanks for easing my mind.

Tracy

> This isn't terribly uncommon for new to raw dogs (and cats). Their
bodies
> are starved for proper nutrition and are assimilating just about
everything
> you're putting into them, raw-wise.
>
> The meat isn't "sitting in her stomach" - it's been digested and
utilized.

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: What do I feed my dane pup that's recovering from Parvo?
Posted by: "pelirojita" kerrymurray7@gmail.com pelirojita
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:33 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dogsofnature" <dogsofnature@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> My five month old dane puppy was diagnosed with Parvo yesterday.

Is it safe to give her
> raw food? Does parvo wipe out the beneficial bacteria in the stomach
> that aids in the digestion of raw food? I'm not going to feed her
> until breakfast time, I just want to make sure I give her the right
> boost for her immune system. Should I feed her chicken broth and then
> ease into the raw diet? Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Kesha & Princess Nala
>
Hi Kesha,

I posted a long response to your email in RawChat. But in case you
miss it or others need the info, check out http://www.ambertech.com/
and download the Parvo self help guide. This is a wonderful company,
with excellent remedies and I would encourage you to call them with
any and all questions.

Good luck to you and your puppy,
Kerry

Messages in this topic (2)
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7.1. New to group
Posted by: "cwnsc" cwells5@charter.net cwnsc
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:55 pm ((PDT))

My Golden suffers from skin problems. He was put on prednisone and is
not himself. I am beginning raw feeding today. I have found all
local grocers in my area do not carry organs - they rely on shipped in
packaged products - no meaty bones - no butchers. I was able to find
oxe tails and turkey necks.
Cindy

Messages in this topic (78)
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7.2. Re: New to group
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:42 pm ((PDT))

Cindy,

You'd be better off with whole chickens or turkeys. Generally the oxtails
found in the grocery store have been cut into small pieces and turkey necks
are not really the best beginning meal. Not only are they far too bony but
not knowing how your dog is going to eat, they could be a choking hazard.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "cwnsc" <cwells5@charter.net>

Messages in this topic (78)
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7.3. Re: New to group
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:55 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cwnsc" <cwells5@...> wrote:
I am beginning raw feeding today. I have found all
> local grocers in my area do not carry organs - they rely on shipped in
> packaged products - no meaty bones - no butchers.

Hi Cindy,
I think that you are confused about what you are looking for. I would
guess that most people just buy from a grocery store. You are looking
for stuff like chicken, turkey, pork roasts,...regular old "lets have
chicken for dinner tonight" meat-not butcher bones or trim. I would
freeze the ox tails and turkey necks for making soup for you and go
back to the store and buy a chicken. As far as the organs go, you
won't want to feed any for at least a week, some people advice longer,
so you have time to find stuff. Most grocery stores sell frozen liver
already sliced into 4 pieces. You are not looking for "doggy" bones.
If i am confused about what you were looking for, sorry. KathyM

Messages in this topic (78)
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7.4. Raw Feeding
Posted by: "cwnsc" cwells5@charter.net cwnsc
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:45 pm ((PDT))

Thank you for the advie.
Cindy W.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cwnsc" <cwells5@> wrote:
> I am beginning raw feeding today. I have found all
> > local grocers in my area do not carry organs - they rely on
shipped in
> > packaged products - no meaty bones - no butchers.
>
> Hi Cindy,
> I think that you are confused about what you are looking for. I
would
> guess that most people just buy from a grocery store. You are
looking
> for stuff like chicken, turkey, pork roasts,...regular old "lets
have
> chicken for dinner tonight" meat-not butcher bones or trim. I
would
> freeze the ox tails and turkey necks for making soup for you and go
> back to the store and buy a chicken. As far as the organs go, you
> won't want to feed any for at least a week, some people advice
longer,
> so you have time to find stuff. Most grocery stores sell frozen
liver
> already sliced into 4 pieces. You are not looking for "doggy"
bones.
> If i am confused about what you were looking for, sorry. KathyM
>

Messages in this topic (78)
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8a. Poo
Posted by: "abeautiful3" abeautiful3@yahoo.com abeautiful3
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:03 pm ((PDT))

Hi all I have to say that when I started looking into feeding RAW I
talked to Adam from performance fuels and he was telling me the
benefits from feeding RAW; and one of the selling points for me since
I have six AM Bulldogs was the lack of the amount of poo and the
smell. I feel the same way you really have to experience it for
yourself to appreciate the difference.

Arlene

Messages in this topic (8)
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8b. Re: Poo
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:39 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "abeautiful3" <abeautiful3@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all I have to say that when I started looking into feeding RAW I
> talked to Adam from performance fuels and he was telling me the
> benefits from feeding RAW; and one of the selling points for me since
> I have six AM Bulldogs was the lack of the amount of poo and the
> smell. I feel the same way you really have to experience it for
> yourself to appreciate the difference.
>
> Arlene
>
Cofusingly enough my dog has more output on raw than she had on super
premium k*bble.

Jennifer with Mandy from Germany

Messages in this topic (8)
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8c. Re: Poo
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:56 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jennifer_hell" <jenniferhell@...>
wrote:
>
> Cofusingly enough my dog has more output on raw than she had on super
> premium k*bble.

What exactly are you feeding???

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (8)
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9a. Re: switching kitten to raw
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:56 pm ((PDT))

There is a rabbit processing plant in Arthur. If you call them you will
probably be able to find a source. I best guess would be Kensington
Market.
REnate
(used to breed rabbits, but haven't lived in TO since 1989)

On 10/12/07, Gail Edmond <windybond1@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I am not a vegeterian but eh what is the difference surely a rabbit is a
> rabbit.
>
> Gail
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Kristen <kristengilkinsonrmt@rogers.com<kristengilkinsonrmt%40rogers.com>
> >
> To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 11 October, 2007 11:34:54 AM
> Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: switching kitten to raw
>
> Thanks Lynda
>
> I think I'll start with chicken and duck hearts with some neck after
> reading your advice. I was wondering where you get frog legs?
>
> I'm trying to find a rabbit breeder in the Toronto area (meat - not pet
> rabbits) but I'm having trouble and I just can't spend $18 on a little
> thing at the grocer ;-)
>
> All the best,
> Kristen
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit Yahoo! For Good
> http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/environment.html
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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10a. Re: Finding rabbit
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:56 pm ((PDT))

Sorry, didn't give you the info re processing plant: Abate Rabbit Packers,
Arthur, Ont.,
519-848-2107

And this is the link for the ontario commercial rabbit breeders assoc -
these people all raise meat rabbits - in fact if anyone says they raise new
zealand whites, they are raising meat rabbits. Call any one of these and
I'm sure they will help you.

http://www.ocrga.ca/ssdirectory.shtml

REnate

On 10/12/07, becca1066 <becca1066@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I know there are several sources who ship, but your best bet is either
> a query on the yahoo group "meatrabbits", or check the ARBA site for
> breeders. Sometimes people raising little cute bunnies are horrified
> at the idea of anyone eating them-but most people appreciate a chance
> to get rid of culls (NOT bad rabbits, just not show quality or brood
> quality)
> I know a champion breeder who sells culls to raw feeders-just ask how
> they're raised
>
> and nutritionally, rabbit is one of the most nutritious meats you can
> get-we got started feeding a little girl with a bad heart
>
> becca
>
>
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: Gathering Info.
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:56 pm ((PDT))

I think that is a co-op, a co-operative, a group that buys together to get
better prices due to volume discounts.
Renate

On 10/12/07, Lynette <lraefried@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> I just wanted to thank all of you who have given me information. I will
> start paying more attention to store adds, and check out craigs list and
> the other(which I cant recall at the moment). Also, one of you
> mentioned a Coop. I am not sure what a Coop is? And how do I look for
> one? Is it as simple as searching the internet?
>
> Lynette
>
>
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (18)
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12a. Is this true?
Posted by: "trayc2244" BreeZ119@catt.com trayc2244
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:42 pm ((PDT))

I found a guy that processes deer meat, so I asked him if I could get
the left overs and the organs. He told me that it was agaisnt the law
to give the organs out. He said they had to be sent to the CDC. Have
you guys heard of this?

Tracy

Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: Is this true?
Posted by: "susrob061174" susrob061174@yahoo.com susrob061174
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:45 pm ((PDT))

> He told me that it was agaisnt the law
> to give the organs out. He said they had to be sent to the CDC. Have
> you guys heard of this?

Never heard of this. It not agaisnt the law here in GA as far as I
know. I get alot of my organs from deer processing centers. I guess it
depends on who you ask too and telling them what its for. Some of them
dont what to fool with having to do something extra. I keep my own
cooler with him, so when he cleans the deer, it right there instead of
having to put them in the freeze for you. I'm guessing it all depends
on where you are from too wheathers it against the law or not. Another
way to get deer meat is ask the Sheriff office to call you when they
have road kill. Dont be surpised if they call you at 2 am. Im lucky to
have a road kill ever so often since I live in the country and a deer
crossing is at my land site.

Susanne

Messages in this topic (2)
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13. Re: Lamb for raw feeders?
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:45 pm ((PDT))

Jenna, where do you live? I had a sheep farm for 17 years up until 2 years
ago, so email me off-list and I will try to help you out. I am in Ontario,
Canada.
Renate

On 10/13/07, Jenna Baxter <jennabaxter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone. I am new to raising sheep, about a year experience now,
> and I was wondering what kind of market there is for selling lamb to
> raw feeders. How much could I expect to make? How large should the
> lambs need to be? Would I be responsible for slaughtering them or
> would someone come and pick up a live lamb? I have a million questions
> so if anyone wants to help me out I'd appreciate it. I don't know the
> first thing about marketing lambs. I had all ewe lambs last Feb. and I
> kept them all for breeding and I just had triplet ram lambs last
> night, so I am wondering about which market to try to advertise to.
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Jenna Baxter
>
>
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12159

There are 19 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: poop
From: Sandee Lee
1b. Re: poop
From: angela182548
1c. Re: poop
From: Sandee Lee
1d. Re: poop
From: angela182548
1e. Re: poop
From: katkellm

2a. Re: Newbie, dog losing weight, how much do I feed?
From: Sandee Lee
2b. Re: Newbie, dog losing weight, how much do I feed?
From: Giselle

3a. Re: pet sitter and raw food - how to prepare
From: Monica

4a. Re: How do I find the archives?
From: angela sims

5. Lamb for raw feeders?
From: Jenna Baxter

6a. Info needed for someone interested in switching
From: Trish Chapman
6b. Re: Info needed for someone interested in switching
From: Giselle

7. What do I feed my dane pup that's recovering from Parvo?
From: dogsofnature

8a. Re: Wretching Dog
From: johkemp

9a. Re: cooked diets
From: johkemp

10a. Re: butchering
From: Tracey WAGC

11a. Re: My dog has a chicken allergy.
From: johkemp

12. Raw Food
From: Jennifer

13a. Re: Whole Pork Shoulder
From: thebestformyboys

Messages
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1a. Re: poop
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:12 pm ((PDT))

Dry stools are the result of bony meals....meaty meals will produce softer
stools. You could add a bit more meat, but don't overdo it! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "angela182548" <angela182548@yahoo.com>

Quick question about poo.... Baby is a bit constipated w/ dry
stoole. Is this normal? Is this also part of thier body detoxing? What
can I do to help her? Thanks, Angela

Messages in this topic (15)
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1b. Re: poop
Posted by: "angela182548" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:18 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:

> Dry stools are the result of bony meals....meaty meals will produce
softer
> stools. You could add a bit more meat, but don't overdo it! :)

Actually today is the first day that she has had any bones, well she
had a little last night but i ended up cutting the bone out for her :-)
Tonight I did great with my "chicken bone choking fear" and I gave her
a 1/4 chicken ...and she did great..bone & all. But this AM she had
about 7oz of beef and about 2oz of liver. I have been giving them
liver & beef every day for the past 8 days.
Would this be a time for some veggies? She has been grazing ALOT. I
just want her to be comfortable. What else can I do?
Thanks for your help, Angela

Messages in this topic (15)
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1c. Re: poop
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:34 pm ((PDT))

Nope, there's never a time for veggies, Angela! :) I thought she had eaten
bone with the chicken half you gave her yesterday...before the second
feeding when you got scared? And turkey necks a couple of days ago?

I really wouldn't worry about it unless she is clearly showing symptoms of
distress. Didn't sound like she is actually constipated...she just had some
dry stool, right? Let her body get used to digesting this new food. If she
needs something to help her along, fatty meat and organs will do it...but
it's pretty easy to overdo that and end up with the opposite problem!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "angela182548" <angela182548@yahoo.com>

Actually today is the first day that she has had any bones, well she
had a little last night but i ended up cutting the bone out for her :-)
Tonight I did great with my "chicken bone choking fear" and I gave her
a 1/4 chicken ...and she did great..bone & all. But this AM she had
about 7oz of beef and about 2oz of liver. I have been giving them
liver & beef every day for the past 8 days.
Would this be a time for some veggies? She has been grazing ALOT. I
just want her to be comfortable. What else can I do?

Messages in this topic (15)
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1d. Re: poop
Posted by: "angela182548" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:24 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Nope, there's never a time for veggies, Angela! :)

Ok No Veggies..lol

I thought she had eaten
> bone with the chicken half you gave her yesterday...before the
second
> feeding when you got scared? And turkey necks a couple of days
ago?

OK i must admit as far as the turkey neck goes ..I cut what meat I
could off the bone for her.
And yesterday she got a little bit of bone and then once again I cut
the bone out.. I know ..I know... lol
But tonight I stepped back and let her do her thing.. :-)

>fatty meat and organs will do it...but
> it's pretty easy to overdo that and end up with the opposite
problem!

OK, I wont stress.... and if she is still straining to go tomorrow I
will give her more liver.
Thanks so much! Angela

Messages in this topic (15)
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1e. Re: poop
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:38 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "angela182548" <angela182548@...>
wrote:
> But tonight I stepped back and let her do her thing.. :-

Way to go Angela--by george, i think ya got it!

>and if she is still straining to go tomorrow I
> will give her more liver.

Now, i know ya got it.

Great job finding the archives and reading. I know that talking is
fun, i like all the sharing and stuff, but you can learn way more, way
faster reading there.

Also, that was a perfect trim on your last post. You did WAY good
today. Let us know how it goes for you tomorrow. KathyM

Messages in this topic (15)
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2a. Re: Newbie, dog losing weight, how much do I feed?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:51 pm ((PDT))

Helen,

You may not need to feed more if you just replace the veggies with some nice
meat. Remember, the diet should consist of mainly meat (approximately 80%
overall), a little bit of bone and organs (around 10% each).

And if that doesn't work, by all means, increase the amount of food. But
stick to meat, bones and organs...no carbs!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "helenlogan5" <helenlogan5@yahoo.co.uk>

I started with chicken wings, minced tripe and chicken from the pet
store and lightly cooked veg which is then put through the food
processor. I have just found a fabulous 'proper' butcher who saves
all his bones and offcuts for me (free - it costs him £35 a week to
get rid of them!!) They had a breast of lamb each last night - it
was wonderful to see them ripping a tearing at their food - and
today have been really lazy - did I feed them too much? or is this
what they would do in the wild - sleep off a heavy meal?

My youngest, Gypsy (2 yrs) is always on the go and I have noticed
that she is losing weight, do I 'fill her up' with pasta, rice,
carbs etc? or should I increase her meat/bone food? She has a cast
iron stomach. All 3 of them love fruit - a real treat for them is a
wrinkly satsuma!

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Newbie, dog losing weight, how much do I feed?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:16 am ((PDT))

Hi, Helen!
Welcome to the raw side! ^_^

You'll want to feed more meat. No grains, carbs, veggies or fruits.
Lots more meat, and some organs, 'specially liver.

You can add more fatty meats, such as pork; fresh hams or shoulders
with the skin and lovely fat layer. Feed whole chickens without
trimming any fat or skin off, and tongue. Heart is lean meat, but if
you can get it with the fat cap still on thats great for adding
weight, too.

Check out this message from the archive on starting raw feeding;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374

post # 141374

And these websites;
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

http://mypetcarnivore.com/dogs_eating.htm

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts.html

http://www.livefoods.co.uk/

HTHs
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hi I started feeding my 3 border collies raw about 4 weeks ago
<snip>
> I would appreciate any advice and tips anyone can give.
>
> Helen
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: pet sitter and raw food - how to prepare
Posted by: "Monica" mommyof2gals@comcast.net mommyof2gals
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:18 pm ((PDT))

I have 2 50lb keeshonden on raw. When we went to Disney for two weeks, I had
a large Tupperware filled with first few days meat. Then, in the freezer, I
had other Tupperware stacked in order (top to bottom, and then back behind
in rows) and told the dog sitter to just pull the next container to the
counter in the morning to defrost and feed it at night.

It allowed for the variety, but was brainless for the sitter. He said it was
a breeze, even though he had never raw fed before.

Monica in iL

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: How do I find the archives?
Posted by: "angela sims" angela182548@yahoo.com angela182548
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:18 pm ((PDT))

Thank you, I found them. Angela

Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote: Angela,

If you are on individual emails, it's easy as there are several links to
click on at the bottom of each message. If you are not receiving individual
emails, go to the group website....
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/
and click on messages.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "angela182548" <angela182548@yahoo.com>

Can you guys direct me to the archives.... pls & thank you,

---------------------------------
Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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5. Lamb for raw feeders?
Posted by: "Jenna Baxter" jennabaxter@sbcglobal.net baxterbcollie
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:24 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone. I am new to raising sheep, about a year experience now,
and I was wondering what kind of market there is for selling lamb to
raw feeders. How much could I expect to make? How large should the
lambs need to be? Would I be responsible for slaughtering them or
would someone come and pick up a live lamb? I have a million questions
so if anyone wants to help me out I'd appreciate it. I don't know the
first thing about marketing lambs. I had all ewe lambs last Feb. and I
kept them all for breeding and I just had triplet ram lambs last
night, so I am wondering about which market to try to advertise to.
Thanks in advance!

Jenna Baxter

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Info needed for someone interested in switching
Posted by: "Trish Chapman" twotheark@verizon.net twotheark
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:39 pm ((PDT))

I know someone who is interested in switching to raw and need to give them
some info to read. I am going to refer them to bluegrace.com, rawfed.com,
and rawmeatybones.com. Is there anywhere else I should refer them? Also,
I thought Work Wonders by Tom Lonsdale was available some where online to
read, but I can't find it. Thanks for any help.

Trish

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: Info needed for someone interested in switching
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:08 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Trish!
Kewl!
You can go here and print out this post if you want;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*

and those websites are great;

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

http://mypetcarnivore.com/dogs_eating.htm
Tom Lonsdale's book used to be available free online to read or dl, but
they're charging for it now.
I wouldn't recommend that you, or they, buy it. But if you want to look it
over, let me know and I'll email the pdf file to you.
TC
Giselle

I know someone who is interested in switching to raw and need to give them
some info to read. I am going to refer them to bluegrace.com, rawfed.com,
and rawmeatybones.com
Is there anywhere else I should refer them? Also I thought Work Wonders by
Tom Lonsdale was available some where online to read, but I can't find it.
Thanks for any help.
Trish

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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7. What do I feed my dane pup that's recovering from Parvo?
Posted by: "dogsofnature" dogsofnature@yahoo.com dogsofnature
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:05 pm ((PDT))

Hello,

My five month old dane puppy was diagnosed with Parvo yesterday. She
was vaccinated in Aug with a single dose, but somehow she tested
positive for it. She stayed in the hospital last night and was
cleared to come back home tonight. They said she's doing well, but
will have diarrhea for a few days. I just moved to Athens, OH and
there are no Holistic Veterinarians here. I feed my dane raw meaty
bones, but the vet wants me to give her cans of garbage, a.k.a.
Science Diet, for a few days. I don't want to give her commercial
food, it might slow down her healing progress. Is it safe to give her
raw food? Does parvo wipe out the beneficial bacteria in the stomach
that aids in the digestion of raw food? I'm not going to feed her
until breakfast time, I just want to make sure I give her the right
boost for her immune system. Should I feed her chicken broth and then
ease into the raw diet? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Kesha & Princess Nala

Messages in this topic (1)
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8a. Re: Wretching Dog
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:15 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "patrice_quinn" <patrice@...> wrote:
>
> We will continue to rawfeed but will not be giving bones anymore.
I'll be adding ground eggshells for now and looking into bonemeal as a
substitute to get them the calcium they need.
>
> I'm glad to read that your dog is over the difficulties it was having.
While I can understand your reluctance to risk a repeat of this problem
I would urge you to reconsider not feeding any bones. Instead of just
feeding drumsticks try quarters or freeze them to slow down her
eating. Bones are for so more than just nutrition.

Messages in this topic (14)
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9a. Re: cooked diets
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:15 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Joanne Thompson" <stnhvn@...> wrote:
>
> Ooops...ofcourse I should also have asked...does anyone have any
links to very user friendly and simple pro-rawfeeding articles on the
web ?
>
>
These are the links I add to any YA posts I do on rawfeeding.

An informative article called 'Dogs are Carnivores"
http://www.dogtorj.net/id51.html
A feeding guide written by Tom Lonsdale,a vet who advocates raw feeding.
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/diet/exp-diet-guide.pdf
A page answering myths about raw feeding and bones
http://rawfed.com/myths/

I hope they help,

Messages in this topic (25)
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10a. Re: butchering
Posted by: "Tracey WAGC" wagc@sasktel.net frustrated_tracey
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:16 pm ((PDT))

Well I'm new to raw feeding but I will just hack it up, not sure about leaving the fur on, maybe someone from the group can answer that. I know that Ill be leave the hooves and lower leg with the fur on just to try it. But I'll freeze the pieces first. Maybe leave it on the head also. But I don't think I'll be as careful as I would if I were eating it, after all in the wild the dogs would just tear pieces off.

Tracey

----- Original Message -----
From: krystal_brr
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 2:31 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: butchering

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Tracey WAGC <wagc@...> wrote:
>
> Krystal, What do you need to know? >

I guess I just wanted to know if you just hack it up or if you are as
careful as when you will be consuming the meat? I am envisioning just
chunks of meat with pieces of bone left in... is that about it?

I am with you.. loins are mine, but they can have the rest:-)

Krystal

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This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.

http://www.eset.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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11a. Re: My dog has a chicken allergy.
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:16 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "m.thompson74" <m.thompson74@...>
wrote:
>
> ++++++Mod note: please sign all emails. ++++++++++++
>
>
> Hi, I'm new to raw food. I'm reading that chicken would be best to
> start out with. My problem is that one of my dogs is allergic to
> chicken. Is it possible that he may be allergic just to the kibble
> form and he may do just fine with raw? Has anyone else had this
> issue?
>
I agree with Bill, it is most likely the cooked chicken in the kibble
or almost any of the other ingredients they put in there. Don't rule
out a nutritious and cheap source of food based on kibble.

I believe that 'allergy' is one of the most overused terms of the
century. A dog whose immune system is under attack from inappropriate
foods is likely to be more 'intolerant' of certain things. This is
not an allergy.

Messages in this topic (8)
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12. Raw Food
Posted by: "Jennifer" kali_moonwolf@yahoo.com kali_moonwolf
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:15 am ((PDT))

Wow, it seems so simple now. Not that I want to offend anyone by
talking off topic, so please, as several of you have, I'd appreciate
other emails on the topics I've discussed. The raw food diet is going
great. It is difficult to understand all the excuses and worries.
Maybe because I lived in Australia, where it's so easy *sometime not,
lol*, but maybe because I've also had health doctors that like the
natural approach.. anyway. Why would things like fur and skin matter?
So they get it, so they don't. Not a big deal. If you are imitating
nature and you hunt and have access to a full carcass, then great,
let the dog go at it and see what he eats! If not, Im sure he'll be
fine with the easily procurred meat and bones from the store. Not
happy? Read a book from Ian Billinghurst (or other's, noted in
archives) and feed MEAT. As long as it has BONE and MEAT what does it
matter, whether it's pig, beef, chicken or human? All the posts here
make it seem so complicated. I just wanted to discuss this as it was
surprising how many individuals worried about somewhat trivial
issues, but in not wanting to go off topic, I had to be somewhat
swiss. At any rate, Im loving my new puppy and greatly appreciate all
the individual support I've gotten. Thanks again!
SIGNED-
-JENNIFER MILLIRON

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13a. Re: Whole Pork Shoulder
Posted by: "thebestformyboys" llb6984@comcast.net thebestformyboys
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:57 am ((PDT))

> These two characters are quite young. How do they look in their 80
> pounds each? That is high for goldens unless they quite large, as
in
> oversized. Are your youngsters lean machines or are you having to
> watch their weight?

> Chris O
>

Chris,

I live in Florida, and in the summer both dogs tend to put on a
little weight, its hard to exercise in 95 degree heat. Cooper is
huge....a big gentle giant. He looks good at 76-78lbs. Nice waist,
very muscular. He will not swim, but loves to run. Right now he could
stand to lose maybe 3lbs. My husband disagrees and thinks he's
perfect. Logan has a bad hip from an injury and will not run too much
at all,he is incredibly lazy too, but he does love to swim. Although
it's not alway convenient to have a sopping wet dog in the house, and
of course since its a swimming pool, he has to be washed after due to
chlorine and it drys his skin out if he goes in too much. He looks
good at maybe 70-73lbs max. He is a lot smaller than his brother, he
still has a waist (barely) but looks good from the side. Both dogs
will slim down this winter, I make sure of it, not doing Logan's hip
any favors with extra weight. I'm hoping without feeding grains
anymore it will be even easier. I feel better a little too skinny
than too fat, husband fights me on this. Dogs are 3 1/2 years young.
I'm feeding approx. 1lb at night and 8oz. in the morning for Cooper
and 5 for Logan. Think this is too much? It looks like a lot less
than what they were getting. Not much coming out the other end!Cooper
is always looking for food, Logan doesn't care and refused breakfast
yesterday. This is not uncommon for him.
I'm taking every one's advice on the pork shoulder! I bought two
more. Cut up 2 in big hunks leaving lots on the bones and I'll leave
one whole and try taking turns. Cooper has some nice poops (as far as
poops go!) Logan's are a little wet and small--poodle poops, but
together. Do you think I can try some pork now? They've only had
chick, beef and turkey, since going prey model. Should I wait longer
to add more things? 7 days today.

Laurie Barnett
PSL, FL

Messages in this topic (6)
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