Feed Pets Raw Food: Nov 26, 2007

Monday, November 26, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12320

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
From: h h
1b. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
From: Yasuko herron
1c. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
From: Yasuko herron
1d. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
From: marclre
1e. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

2a. Re: dog with diabetes
From: cypressbunny
2b. Re: dog with diabetes
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

3a. Re: trying not working
From: carnesbill

4a. Update, part I
From: mozookpr
4b. Re: Update, part I
From: Yasuko herron
4c. Re: Update, part II -- I did it!!
From: mozookpr

5a. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
From: miningcamp_labs
5b. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
From: Sonja
5c. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
From: Andrea
5d. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
From: Belinda van de Loo

6a. Re: Making the switch
From: paula.0666

7a. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
From: catar2catars
7b. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
From: Morledzep@aol.com

8a. vomiting chicken
From: fillermac
8b. Re: vomiting chicken
From: Andrea
8c. Re: vomiting chicken
From: Yasuko herron

9a. Re: Pig Leg bones...
From: Morledzep@aol.com

10. Re: Soft bones
From: Sai Simonson

11a. Re: Buying from the source
From: Gayle

12. First Raw feed mixed reviews
From: groomindiva67

Messages
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1a. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
Posted by: "h h" deedeekinsisme@yahoo.com tarbedyh
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:58 am ((PST))

I was under the assumption that it was 10% if their daily meal or more
if you feed every few days...should I not be giving them organ every
day? So if my dogs get 2 lbs of food each day I give them about .2 lbs
of organ...if it's not a daily thing, how much should I give and how
often?
~~~~~~~~~~~
You can do it that way if you want, but you don't need to be giving precisely 3.2 oz of organ meat every single day. For example, my dogs get a pound of food every day (give or take) and I try to feed them one organ meal every week to two weeks. Sometimes it has been two and a half or even (gasp) three weeks in between organ meals, and other times they have had three organ meals in less than two weeks (dh, bless his heart, doesn't always take out the right thing out of the freezer if I hadn't done it already). In the long run, it all balances out.

HEIDI MARIE
~with the woofs-Cheyenne and Lazy B~
~and the moggies-Minerva, Shasta, and Misty-Jo~

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Messages in this topic (11)
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1b. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:37 pm ((PST))

> I use the premade as a supplement because my mom HATES the smell of tripe and organs which ushually complete a raw diet.

I do not like pre-made raw medalion things or pre-made ground items because you really have no control over the ratio of bone,organ,meat and somehas veg or fruits in it which dog really no need it for.I feel more comfortable to know waht really goes into our dogs by feeding hunks of meat.bone,organs. Those are no added vitamin sprays over it like kibbles get andI feel comfortable feeding as natural as food can be.

as for tripe,it is not must item but,I feed it as side dish and it seems to gives my dog more energy and coat color seems to be little darker more. It just my feeling so,I may be wrong though.

Smell is ... like cow barn. and sight is little too much for me,but i wanted to see what it is like and,see if palette likes it,andtried but palette really likes it so,I guess i keep it in menu but it is not must item.You do not need to feed it if you choose not to.Not a big thing.

As for organs though,it hasso nutrients rich in it so,I think dog diet should have some organs included. Squashy feeling or little smell of organs could make you feel nautious but,dog needs it. If your mother did not like the smell or sight of organs,you can just go outside orsomewhere mother is not around and cut the organs for your dog and feed it.Organ should be part of diet around 10%.

> Plus I use it because venison and duck are really hard to find.

I have never fed Venison but I feed Elk. The big deer. I buy big from CO and stock up in freezer and it lasts months. For Duck,local grocery store sell it.

If you in VA,I have seen Duck in Giant and Shoppers.

and if you go to Asian stores,you may find one.one bird at shoppers were about 16 dollars or so with 6lb Duck.It is frozen. At Giant,same 6lb Duck was around 30 dollars.

I feed Duck but palette cannot have Duck meal with skin on.If skin is on,she either gets loose poo or diarrhea. I gradually move from combo meal to Duck only meal without skin but with skin,she has prob,so,I need to be slow to feed bird with skin on for Duck.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (11)
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1c. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:38 pm ((PST))

>should I not be giving them organ every day?

Hi. you could if you want to. It just that organs especially Liver has high in Vitamin A so,as long as you do not feed too much daily, then,you are ok to go.

I am rotating side dish among poultry ziblet bag items(heart,gizzard),chicken liver,tripe,liver of pork,and Beef in a week. So,for me,technically I can say I feed 3 times per week for liver but if I wanted,I can feed smidge of liver daily.It is just me.

Oh,and liver tends to loose up the poo too so, it is like combination of how much your dog can torelate plus as long as amount of liver you give is not too much liver,then,you are fine.

When I feed liver,I combine with kidney.So,palette gets 5% pork kidney 5% liver for example.But % is rough guide line so,sometimes,when I cut the liver,she maybe getting little less than 5%.I just eyeball it so,I may sometimes little over andsomedays,little less.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (11)
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1d. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
Posted by: "marclre" marclre@aol.com marclre
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:08 pm ((PST))

"It wont hurt. would it?"

***Just as when you feed crap-in-a-bag, with prepackaged 'medallions' etc you really have
no way of knowing what other dreck may have been added to the mix. Apart from the fact
that you're being royally ripped off pricewise. My own personal view is that commercially
prepared raw food is mostly a waste of space and only helps fuel the tired old myths &
misunderstandings circulating about raw feeding. One of which is that it has to be hideously
expensive ;)
Marie-Claire***

Messages in this topic (11)
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1e. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:50 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 11/26/2007 7:03:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
twilli55@tampabay.rr.com writes:

Marci,

the percentages are NOT exact.. what the percentages we use really mean is
that a very small amount of the diet is organs..

let me give you an example.. in the last week i've fed my dogs (9 large
beasts 60lbs - 150 lbs) pork picnics, 2 - 20 lb turkeys, 1 bag of pork spleen
(melts), 4 - 5lb frying chickens, and the old man forgot to feed the dogs a couple
days.

each of the pork picnics are about 9 lbs, it usually takes 2 or 3 to feed the
entire crew. the organs from the turkeys were handed out as treats to the
silly ones that finished their meals first. And the "bag" of pork melts is
gallon bags that i conveniently counted 9 pork melts into the bag when i packaged
them after i bought them.

so this week all the organs that ALL of my dogs have had is a pork melt each
with whatever else they ate that day. and some turkey livers i tossed in the
air for someone to catch when i fed turkey.

sometime next week.. or the week after we might whack a beef or ostrich liver
into 9 hunks. or we might not.

all that measuring and weighing things will get to you sooner or later, it'll
cause you to either throw your hands up and say "i can't do this anymore" or
you'll relax and just feed organs when you remember, and not worry about it.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (11)
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2a. Re: dog with diabetes
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:04 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laura Stock" <stockhouse@...>
wrote:
>
> Has anyone here had any luck reversing diabetes by switching to raw?

*** Many dogs and cats have, depending on how severe the damage to the
pancreas is. In any case, cutting out the carbs will reduce the
glucose roller coaster ride and allow better control if insulin is
necessary. Dogs just aren't designed to ingest many carbs, but kibble
is usually chock-full of them.

Many folks find that the insulin dosage needs to be reduced after the
switch to raw. If this dog is not on insulin, I would switch to raw
first and see how he does. If he is on insulin, I would switch to raw
but pay careful attention to the glucose numbers. Do not rely on
glucose curves done in the vet hospital--they should be done at home.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: dog with diabetes
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:38 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 11/26/2007 2:58:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, "Laura
Stock" writes:

My parents have a 6yo medium-sized mixed breed dog who's just been diagnosed
with diabetes. Has anyone here had any luck reversing diabetes by switching
to raw?

****
Hi, Laura,

I have cats, not dogs, but I am confident that the answer is the same.
Kibble is the WORST thing possible to feed a diabetic cat. Here's a website with
good information by a nationally respected vet in the field of cat diabetes,
who rawfeeds her own cats.

_http://yourdiabeticcat.com/diet.html_ (http://yourdiabeticcat.com/diet.html)

Lynda

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Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: trying not working
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:37 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ELLEN DIX" <ellileeah22@...>
wrote:
>
> YES, Bill, I like this Group and I would like to share this
> post with my potential puppy people to encourage them to feed
> raw and to take a step "out of the box", even to join this
> group BEFORE they get a puppy!. Could I cross post this message
> to them?

Sure, no problem. I don't know if you need anyone elses permission
but you have mine.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (8)
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4a. Update, part I
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:38 pm ((PST))

Today is the day. I am armed with two whole chickens, waiting to be
cut unto appropriately sized meals. Thanks to all who suggested
portion sizes, I think I will try half breasts, as so many have
recommended.

What finally prompted me to move NOW, instead of when I stopped being
nervous, got a freezer, found 29 cent leg quarters?

Foxy almost choked on a kibble today. Which has also cured me
permanently of any notions I ever had that free feeding was a good
idea. (Yeah, I know: dumb. But this is what most people I know do.
Be kind. I only just heard of raw meaty bones a few days ago, and have
literally been staying up half the night since then learning all I can.)

Here's what happened. Two dogs, two bowls, out all the time. It had
to happen sooner or later: both dogs went for the same bowl at once.
In the ensuing dust-up, Foxy got so excited he almost inhaled the food
he had in his mouth and hacked for about 10 minutes.

So...even if I had never heard of raw feeding, we would have two new
house rules: Regular mealtimes and truly seperate feeding stations,
not just two bowls. I can see experienced multiple-dog owners shaking
their heads in disgust; what can I say, I have only ever had multiples
of the feline variety before, and they can share a bowl just fine. At
least, they have been, I am pretty sure when I switch them over it will
be a different story!

Since I am introducing these other new rules, it seems like a good time
to, as I was advised, JUST DO IT, and switch today to raw. I am still
a little nervous, but I think this feeling is outweighed by my
excitement at knowing my dogs will really enjoy their meals, and that I
will be doing the best thing for them. They will be fed in their
crates, which are, thank Heaven, in my room. (I live with my 82-year
old mother, who has Alzheimer's and would be far more nervous about
this switch than I, as she freaks out when the dogs play together
because she is convinced they are going to kill each other.)

Thanks for listening to this newbie ramble, and to all who said there
was a disconnect between my intellectual acceptance of raw and my
emotions...you are right. There has been. I am reminded of my first
time on the high dive at the pool as a child. I saw the other kids
doing it, I knew they were okay when they did it, and I wanted to do it
myself. That scared me, too, but once I did it, I was fine, and better
than fine: I loved it, and was proud of overcoming my fear. I am sure
this will be the same.

Will let you know how it went in update, part II...

Thanks again for your patience in helping me recover from my "tizzy."

;)

Wendy the bi-ped, and Foxy and Sophie the carnivores

Messages in this topic (18)
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4b. Re: Update, part I
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:39 pm ((PST))

> Two dogs, two bowls, out all the time. It had to happen sooner or later: both dogs went for >the same bowl at once. In the ensuing dust-up, Foxy got so excited he almost inhaled the >food he had in his mouth and hacked for about 10 minutes.

Hi. What breed of your dog? Mine is Corgi(pembroke),and I do not use bowl to feed other than raw egg or liver orsomething that will pread over the shower curtain I use as mat on kitchen floor.I feed main meal without bowl.

Since i have only one dog not malti dog family so,I cannot have suggestion for you for feeding dog more than one,but I do knowthat thislist hadtopics on it months ago.You can look up the past archive andyou may find more suggestion there.this list really is full of info and,very good to learn things on feeding.Very helpful people here.I really like this list.

I switched my dog Cold Turkey way since it was recomended to me on this list and,my dog did fine with it.

I remember how nervous I was to handing out bone to my dog..

At first feeding time,she was way too excited and probably mis-judged the size she could swallow and after swallowing,she hoakedit up again andchew more and swallow. But she learnt quick she needed to chew bit and,that the raw food is not just one time thing but rather daily thing so,she got real relaxed on feeding time and enjoy meal every chewing/swallowing she does.I am glad that I changed her diet.It was big step for me to not to feel nervous about feeding it untril I actyually feed it but after that,feeding bone came to feel natural to me and,I feel comfortable feeding it.As long asyou stay away from knuckle bone,femur bone,marrow bone and some other bone from pet shop,then,you are ok.And you would learn the dog's eating habit too.Then,you can judge the bone with it.

> Regular mealtimes and truly seperate feeding stations, not just two bowls.

I think that feeding schedule is better off not deciding. I am not deciding whattime we feed her. Only rule here is,she get fed after human and then,she sit nicely before meal and,start eating after we say ok.

And I trade meal that is big andneed to trade with chicken feet.

That is about it.

Today,I woke up quite late for me,but she was fine,no bile vomit as well since I do not have exact feeding time.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (18)
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4c. Re: Update, part II -- I did it!!
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:13 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mozookpr" <mozookpr@...> wrote:
>
> Today is the day.

One half chicken, demolished!

I gave Foxy a bit less than the whole breast quarter, he ate about
half of it, with some encouragment from me. He did finally chomp on
the bones, and finished most of the wing, along with some of the back
and breast. He is used to getting to nibble whenever he likes, so I
suspect tomorrow or the next day he will get the idea that those days
are over, and may eat more then.

Sophie worked that quarter like...well...like she was born to do it
(fancy that!) It was so cool! There was a little scrap of backbone
left that I will give her in the morning. I think she would be able
to handle leg quarters, and will probably try that tomorrow, since
the chicken came with two of them.... ;) If that works well, I will
give her the leg quarters and save the breasts and ribs for Foxy, who
is smaller.

Mom saw Foxy chewing a wing, and was horrified. "He's a LITTLE DOG,
little dogs should not get the same things as big dogs like THAT"
(meaning Sophie, who weighs all of 19 lbs....) I told her he did get
a different meal...smaller, with smaller bones, but that he is still
a dog, with the same digestive system as any other dog.

Anyway, both dogs seemed to enjoy their meal, Sophie perhaps more,
because she is a puppy and not yet addicted to kibble. Am looking
forward to the next feeding! (And I know Sophie's cannon butt five
minutes after dinner was NOT the chicken, it was probably the cat
poop she sneaks out of the litter box every time I turn my
back....any suggestions for that? Grrrr....) Just wondering, does
rawfeeding help with that issue? Would be awesome if it did...

Once again, thanks,

Wendy, Foxy, and Sophie
Official raw feeders :D

Messages in this topic (18)
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5a. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
Posted by: "miningcamp_labs" miningcamp_labs@yahoo.com miningcamp_labs
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:38 pm ((PST))

Sara,
I've been raw feeding 8 labs for about four months. One of my labs
developed extremely itchy, bumpy skin and was very much allergic to
whatever they're putting in chicken. After several weeks of pork
riblets and beef heart, the problem went away. She cannot tolerate
any additives. And I've since found out that chicken can be labeled
all natural as long as the additives are natural.

If this is something new, you should also probably have your vet do a
skin scraping to make sure no mites are involved. In the Phoenix
area we have had several cases of sarcoptic mange, which has the same
symptoms as allergies. Most vets will treat for allergies if the
test is negative, but you need to stay on it. Study up on mange on
the internet. I had one dog get it at the dog park before I knew
better.

Eliminate the chicken.
Pam and her labs

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sara Buchanan <judge742@...> wrote:
>
> I've had my 4 year old Choc Lab on raw for about a month and her
allergies are worse than ever. We have mainly been feeding her
chicken, with turkey and pork. She has had no trouble moving to raw
but her skin is so red and bumpy we put her back on pred and atopica.
Could she be allergic to chicken??
> Sara and Rose

>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
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> Make Yahoo! your homepage.
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>
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>

Messages in this topic (7)
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5b. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:38 pm ((PST))

I have a lab that is very sensitive to chicken, even the minimally processed, non-enhanced variety. I won't feed it to her anymore. When I can afford it, I'd like to try her on organic chicken to see if that might make a difference, but until that day, she's stuck with pork, turkey, and duck. She has negative reactions to lamb, beef, and of course, chicken. She used to be mildly reactive to pork (excessive itching), but that seems to have gone away.

I've been feeding raw since around March/April because of allergies, and we're leaps and bounds ahead of where we were, but Kodie is still not 100% allergy free, and we probably shouldn't expect her to be at this point. At least we have it under control now, and she doesn't need meds or shots anymore.

I know it's frustrating, and when you have a dog that seems to react to EVERYTHING, the learning curve with raw is a lot steeper! Stick with it, the rewards might be further away, but they're there!

Sonja

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Messages in this topic (7)
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5c. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:49 pm ((PST))

> What kind of pork bones my 85lb dog cant get through neck bones.

Neck bones are generally pretty meatless and even though my dogs can
consume the bones they don't always do so. My newf pup had no problems
with the bone in a picnic roast even when he was 12 weeks old. Pork
rib slabs are really easy to eat as well.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (7)
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5d. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
Posted by: "Belinda van de Loo" auntielindyloo@yahoo.com belindavandeloo
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:33 pm ((PST))

Hello Sara,
You didn't perchance have a vaccination recently, like within a couple
months? That could explain some of this type of reaction, as it did
with my dog who was seemingly allergic to chicken for a long time. It
turned out to be a vaccinosis reaction and it took several months for
my dog to finally be able to enjoy all types of raw meat. I had him
treated homeopathically for vaccinosis and he came right.
Just a thot.
Blessings,
Belinda and "Honey" from Holland

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sara Buchanan <judge742@...> wrote:
>
> I've had my 4 year old Choc Lab on raw for about a month and her
allergies are worse than ever. We have mainly been feeding her chicken,
with turkey and pork. She has had no trouble moving to raw but her skin
is so red and bumpy we put her back on pred and atopica. Could she be
allergic to chicken??
> Sara and Rose
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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6a. Re: Making the switch
Posted by: "paula.0666" roogirl@adam.com.au paula.0666
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:38 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "paula.0666" <roogirl@> wrote:>
> but is it okay to switch a dog straight to all raw feeding or
> > should there be a transitional phase?
> *****
> It's fine, Paula. The sooner you get the kibble out of the dog's
life,
> the better.
>
> If you haven't joined Yahoogroups (the link is at the bottom of
every
> email you receive from this list), please do. Access to the message
> archives will help you tremendously.
> Chris O
>*****
Thank you very much. I will spend the coming weekend scouring the
archives. I can't believe Jasper's not crying for my dinner after he's
eaten. He couldn't be satiated for the first time, could he? Also, no
crazy carb laps after dinner - just a contented protein induced coma.
Amazing!!!

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
Posted by: "catar2catars" roger.may@telenet.be catar2catars
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:39 pm ((PST))

>
> Hiya Roger ,
> Welcome , grab a chair and lets chat ;-)
>
> JSYK ........... We are not a BARF list.
>
> Raw feeding is PREY model feeding so the dogs and cats get the
> entire benefit of the TOTAL nutrition they need to thrive along
with
> the mental and physical part that is so important.
>
> A nice side effect of true raw feeding is there are no trips to
the
> vetspital unless there is an emergency or for the dreaded
mandated
> by law Rabies poke ........... grrrrrrrrrrr.
>
>
> > or is this no
> > concern at all >
>
> ########## NO COMMENT ! ! ! hahahahahaha
>
> Best as Always,
> Shirley & the Kitchen Wolves
> imagegermanshepherds.com
> est 1959

Thanks for the reply Shirley,

And for the good order, I'm not a barfer , nor a raw feeder.

I feed my dogs already more than 35 years raw meaty bones, organ
meat, all parts of so called prey animals and table scraps.
and before those 35 years , I saw my grandfather doing that 25 years
before.

So, I know what is Barf, prey model feeding and all the stories
aroud, and I also know where carnivorous pets get there benefits.

I was just curious if the stories which where on the Dutch boards
were true , and if the FDA could have some impact on the pulp-pap-
dog-food industries in America !

as You wrote , no further comment.

roger.

Messages in this topic (9)
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7b. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:34 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 11/26/2007 4:25:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
roger.may@telenet.be writes:

Is this a concern only for those compagnys who are producing raw,
minced meat "sausages" like Barf TM style , or is this a concern for
compagnies who sell the real stuff as it should be , or is this no
concern at all and just a poker game from the FDA boys and girls ?

Roger,

i don't see how this affects us? we feed whole meats, on and off the bone,
and organs. we don't use, nor to do recommend using pre-made, ground raw
anything.

IF we find ground meat at the grocery store for a price that just can't be
passed up, we'll include it in a meal or feed a hunk of it frozen so it still
requires work to eat. But that and ground green tripe is all the ground meat
most of our dogs ever get.

FDA, no matter how big they think they are, can't stop that..

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (9)
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8a. vomiting chicken
Posted by: "fillermac" jkffiller@msn.com fillermac
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:33 pm ((PST))

Hi,
My dog has never liked raw chicken all that well. But I gave her
two chicken legs last evening. About 4 hours later she vomited
projectilely and it looked more like feces. She did not eat it.
She is fine. She ate today. She pooped today. Any ideas. Thanks Eileen

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. Re: vomiting chicken
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:12 pm ((PST))

Hmm. . .any chance she went outside and ate some poo? Seems like after
four hours the chicken should still resemble chicken, especially if she
ate ok and went poo today.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "fillermac" <jkffiller@...> wrote:

> I gave her two chicken legs last evening. About 4 hours later she
> vomited projectilely and it looked more like feces.

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

8c. Re: vomiting chicken
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:34 pm ((PST))

> I gave her two chicken legs last evening. About 4 hours later she vomited
projectilely and it looked more like feces

Hi,Eileen. Are you new to rawfeeding? If so,then,your dog has problem of eating bland flavored and different textured chicken and it maybe look as if your dog does not like the chicken.Give your dog time and your dog may change taste-buzz.

It is bit different but my dog hadprob with Elk before but now she likes it and gubbles down. So,once she gets used to food,then,maybe she does good on it.

As for vomitting, maybe you fed it right from the fridge and meat was too cold for stomack?

Or too bony for your dog in one sitting?

Or maybe chicken was enhanced with some ways?

She has no prob with poo??

yassy

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Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: Pig Leg bones...
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:34 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 11/26/2007 11:06:33 AM Pacific Standard Time,
shirl-ed@hotmail.com writes:

Are these safe as a good chew for a large dog? Or are then teeth-breakers?

Shirley,

these are bare naked bones? there is no earthly reason to give any dog bare
naked bones. appropriately sized meals that include meat on bones is all that
should be necessary to satisfy all of your dogs' chewing needs.

Anything above and beyond that is a training issue.

Pork bones in general are not too hard for all but the tiniest dogs. a hunky
pork picnic provides several meat only meals and one or two nice meat ripping
bone chewing workouts.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (2)
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10. Re: Soft bones
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:50 pm ((PST))

Hi Snezana,

I can not advise about bones, however I am very impressed by all the
choices you have available.

Sai in Oregon, USA
====================
I can get chicken, beef, pork (meat, bones and organs), mackarel,
sardines and other fish, and sometimes lamb or turkey. Is this enough
variety?
I appreciate any help.

Regards from Serbia,
Snezana and Tina
--
*~~ SaiCzarina*

Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: Buying from the source
Posted by: "Gayle" gayle@gayleturner.net gayle28607
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:13 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "the swamp witch" <theswampwitch@...> wrote:
>
Can anyone offer some words of wisdom about buying from the source.
> For example, would it be worth the effort to buy a quarter cow, or will I
> get a comparable price from buying sales? I like the idea of buying local

Jennifer,

I think I am on a parallel path. I am in Boone, NC, and am running into nothing but confusion
about both venison and beef at the moment. I am trying to do whole prey as much as
possible. Given what many processors take as the USDA rules, it has begun to make me
wonder if it would be easier to raise my own cow, or shoot my own deer. If I simply wanted a
quarter of a cow that is free range, I could get that, but it would be about $3.50 a pound.
That is not going to happen at that price.

Assuming I finally learn something, I'll post here. I hope you will do the same!

Gayle and Chakotay

Messages in this topic (3)
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________________________________________________________________________

12. First Raw feed mixed reviews
Posted by: "groomindiva67" redneckdiva@sbcglobal.net groomindiva67
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:13 pm ((PST))

Okay I fed my crew tonight there first raw meal. I got mixed reviews.
2 of my standards thought I had lost my mind and refused to eat. My
female Standard loved them she had 2 thighs (but threw up about 30 mins
after eating) did I feed her to much at first?? My golden refused to
eat until I cut it up in smaller pieces. I started with a quarter of
chicken and then gave her a thigh instead she would put in her mouth
that was it until I cut it up. I strips some of the meat then fave her
the meat and bone she loved it. Had to do the same with my
mini/standard. she loved it. My Ridgeback love them ate it like candy.

So I took up the chicken the boys refused to eat. Maybe tomorrow they
will be hungry. So how did I do???

Monica and the Redneck Crew

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12319

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: South African Boerboel puppy question?
From: cdhaik
1b. Re: South African Boerboel puppy question?
From: cdhaik

2. Pig Leg bones...
From: Eddie Scholten

3a. Re: concerned
From: Belinda van de Loo

4a. Re: Dog with heartworm
From: Tina Berry
4b. ADMIN/Re: Dog with heartworm
From: costrowski75
4c. Re: Dog with heartworm
From: DM H

5a. Allergic Dog not any better
From: Sara Buchanan
5b. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
From: Andrea
5c. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
From: Laveda Barritt

6a. Re: S.O.S and venison ribs in NE Michigan
From: Tina Berry

7a. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
From: Bumble1994@aol.com
7b. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
From: Shirley
7c. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
From: Shirley
7d. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
From: carnesbill

8a. Re: Soft / edible bones
From: judy tallant

9. dog with diabetes
From: Laura Stock

10a. Re: Bone size
From: groomindiva67

11a. Re: Dr. Pitcairn's recipe questions
From: Tina Berry

12a. Re: Deer carcases
From: Tina Berry

13a. Re: new to rawfeeding with Dobes
From: Lisa Blair

14a. Re: Buying from the source
From: carnesbill

15a. Re: Salmon Oil/How much???
From: cynthiashankman

16a. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
From: Marci
16b. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
From: carnesbill

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: South African Boerboel puppy question?
Posted by: "cdhaik" cdhaik@yahoo.com cdhaik
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:06 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "footblack78" <footblack78@...>
wrote:
>
> I need some help on understanding good diet for my puppy. My
breeder that I am
> buying my dog from spoke to me about bone growth and protein. She
stated that it is
> important that I can slow the bone growth down, with using the
right food with the right
> percentage of protein can help. So I need some help in figuring
out proper puppy/dog food,
> treats, chew bones, vitamin brands that are out there. Also what
kind of human food do some
> of you give your boerboel that continues to give them good health?
>
> This will be a huge help you guys, I appreciate it.
>
> Good day,
> Johann
>

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: South African Boerboel puppy question?
Posted by: "cdhaik" cdhaik@yahoo.com cdhaik
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:06 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "footblack78" <footblack78@...>
wrote:
>
> I need some help on understanding good diet for my puppy. My
breeder that I am

Oh jees sorry Johan the first reply i sent was done by cyber
gremlin. Now good to see South Africa here baie lekker om die
waarheid to se so welcome! Finding whole sources of food should not
be a problem depending on where you live. I think the only probs we
had was rabbit but other than that whole fish and green tripe from a
butcher and of course when hunting season begins you can have a ball
if you know any hunters. We lived in the Overberg regioin and i made
friends with a butcher there who supplied me with all the considered
throw away stuff so green tripe was easy to get as well as heads of
anything slaughtered. We managed to get fresh fish from the close by
harbours and of course when the sardien run is on all is OK. One
thing stressed on this list is cold water fish being better than
warm water but i am not sure how that affects us in SA. Living Cape
side it has always been cold water vis so it has been easy.

I have two Australian Shepherds. One is South African born and bred
from Constantia and the other we took the opportunity to get while
living in North America temporarily. The raw diet does slow down the
growth rate appropriately and satisfactorily. I have been feeding
raw fully for 11 months now and am very happy. There truly is very
little you need to feed other than the variety and the correct
percentage of raw. You can get cheaper sources of meat like i say
make friends with your butcher and if you hunt or know anyone else
who does even better. Tongue and brain were quite easily obtained
and cheap from our local Spar as well again as the butcher. Eggs are
easily available too. Dont worry about the human food aspect our
dogs will eat meat that we might not consider at all palatable,
remember they are descended from wolves and stuff that is a little
green is just fine for them. This is where i find many bargains on
meat here and also back home in SA. I know the raw meat and veggie
diet is very popular in SA but truly the raw meat only is the best
way to go.

For chews stay away from the rawhide. What we did for our Aussie
girl and i know this sounds gross but we just got whole and fresh
ears and feet and such. We managed quite well getting legs and feet
from ostrich farmers so you just have to be inventive and the
unbleached hoofies are also brilliant. The only supplements we give
the dogs is the 1000miu Salmon capsules that you can by at any
Dischem at a good price. Those are given daily as a supplement for
the omega 3 intake but truly you need nothing else. For training of
course biltong pieces and dry wors are hundred percent acceptable
and loved.

Check out the archives on this site and the links. There is
excellent advice from people doing this for years. Raw feeding will
provide you Boer Bull with good food and optimum health and start as
young as you can according to the begginers advice on this site. You
will not be sorry.

Lekkerbly

Caren y Rain y Amber

Messages in this topic (5)
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2. Pig Leg bones...
Posted by: "Eddie Scholten" shirl-ed@hotmail.com shirley11964
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:06 am ((PST))

Hello everyone,

I have a local source (FREE) of pig leg bones and I have some here now, but I don't think I should give them as they are the really solid/heavy feeling bones, with just a very small amount of meat on them.

Are these safe as a good chew for a large dog? Or are then teeth-breakers?

If they are safe, I will wait until my GR pup is older (at just 8 weeks now, I guess he's got no use for them?).

Shirley

_________________________________________________________________
Nooit meer offline met Windows Live Messenger op je mobiele telefoon
http://www.getlivemobile.nl/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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3a. Re: concerned
Posted by: "Belinda van de Loo" auntielindyloo@yahoo.com belindavandeloo
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:06 am ((PST))

Hi Nante,
I don't recall your intial post but I also have a young puppy in the
house and I do not give drumsticks - only wings. Their teeth are not
able to crush the larger "weight-bearing" bones at that age and
therefore the bones are not crushed sufficiently to navigate the
intestinal tract.
What to do now? Just wait, feed only meat (not bone) for a day. It
should work itself through. And, de-bone those thighs and drumsticks
or whack them with a mallet to crush the bones... or (what I do) attach
a vice grip to one end of the bone and this forces them to work on the
bone instead of swallowing.
Hope this helps.
Belinda

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dario" <nanterossi@...> wrote:
>
> My little 13 week old pupp has been on raw for a few weeks. I was
feeding him on chicken
> wings and some carcasses and his stools were really hard. I posted up
and had a few
> replies. I took the advice and and have been giving him drumsticks,
and thighs (with
> drumsticks). Now he has really bad watery stools. Quite smelly
too...What to doooo???
> Getting a little concerned. HELP!!!!
>
> nante
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: Dog with heartworm
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:06 am ((PST))

"He is going in for his neuter tomorrow, then will start his treatment for
heartworm in approximately one to two weeks, during which he must be kept as
calm and quiet as possible. (No control over timing on my part,
unfortunately.)"

I would seriously consider this alternative to the vet's HW treatment.

http://www.wolfcreekranch.net/heartworm_free.html

--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (15)
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4b. ADMIN/Re: Dog with heartworm
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:18 am ((PST))

A reminder to all that heartworm is not an appropriate topic for
rawfeeding. Please take the topic to RawChat, DogHealth or private.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (15)
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4c. Re: Dog with heartworm
Posted by: "DM H" hawks.bluff@yahoo.com hawks.bluff
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:37 am ((PST))

Hi Tina,

Funny you should recommend Wolf Creek Ranch. I know
Julie and have spent time with her wolves. :-) I
used to live just down the road from her.

I had a bad experience with the whole Parvaid and
colloidal silver thing, though, lost pretty much every
puppy in a litter of approx eleven, even though Julie
personally treated each one (and did so diligently and
tirelessly, so absolutely no blame on her).
Consequently, I am pretty leery of the "cure in a
bottle" approach.

Donna

Messages in this topic (15)
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5a. Allergic Dog not any better
Posted by: "Sara Buchanan" judge742@yahoo.com judge742
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:07 am ((PST))

I've had my 4 year old Choc Lab on raw for about a month and her allergies are worse than ever. We have mainly been feeding her chicken, with turkey and pork. She has had no trouble moving to raw but her skin is so red and bumpy we put her back on pred and atopica. Could she be allergic to chicken??
Sara and Rose

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Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:31 am ((PST))

It's pretty rare for a dog to have true allergies to raw meats but it
is possible. First I would check to see if you are feeding enhanced
meats at all. One of my boys gets terribly itchy when he eats
chicken that has some kind of broth injected into it. Next I would
eliminate all treats from the diet. If the chicken is fine and you
don't give treats you should switch to pork only for about 6 weeks.
It takes a long time for allergens to get out of the system
sometimes. If the allergies subside I would suggest not feeding
chicken for a long while and later (if at all) go back and try it
again to see if the allergies come back.

I'd also take a good hard look at environmental allergies. Is there
more pollen, a new detergent being used, new shampoo? Keep us
updated, and good luck.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (3)
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5c. Re: Allergic Dog not any better
Posted by: "Laveda Barritt" l.barritt@yahoo.com l.barritt
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:57 am ((PST))

Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote: What kind of pork bones my 85lb dog cant get through neck bones. He is allergic to chicken and I,m trying to find something else to feed him. Thanks Laveda Barritt

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Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: S.O.S and venison ribs in NE Michigan
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:07 am ((PST))

"but, the bones feel so fragile and sharp to me (it is a deer, after all).
At this point of his transition, should I set one slab down and let him have
it?"

Since he is new to raw I would agree with Bill and stick with whole
chickens, organs for about a month; I have fed fresh venision with no
problems not freezing first, but since this is a new meat I would wait. But
yes, you can give the whole rack and let him have at it.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:07 am ((PST))

In a message dated 11/26/2007 9:22:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
"catar2catars" writes:

On a few Dutch Barf boards, the rumour was spread that the FDA want to
close down the raw dog food industry in the USA.

After the recall of some contaminated prepacked frozen meat packages
from the Bravo Doog Food Cy, the FDA inspectors themselfs confirmed
this to the manager of that compagny.

****
Hi, Roger,

You won't find people on this board who think ANY companies sell "the real
stuff as it should be"...except meat departments in grocery stores. :)

I am confident that it is a rumor. After all, the FDA didn't even have the
power to recall the tainted pet food that was clearly killing cats and dogs.
Only the companies themselves could do that. And all some of them did was put
a new sticker over the old one and send it out again, with no repercussions.
(The lack of power of the FDA has is truly amazing.)

There WERE congressional hearings about the recalls and what's wrong with
the FDA (underfunded and understaffed, along with powerless), and I have no
doubt that some of what was said there sounded very threatening to some pet food
companies. However, those in the USA know that Congress isn't going to do
anything that will impact the purses of their good sponsors....er, campaign
donors...

Lynda

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

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Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
Posted by: "Shirley" ssthunderpony@yahoo.com ssthunderpony
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:36 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "catar2catars" <roger.may@...>
wrote:
>
> On a few Dutch Barf boards, the rumour was spread that the FDA want
to
> close down the raw dog food industry in the USA.
###########

Hiya Roger ,
Welcome , grab a chair and lets chat ;-)

JSYK ........... We are not a BARF list.

Raw feeding is PREY model feeding so the dogs and cats get the
entire benefit of the TOTAL nutrition they need to thrive along with
the mental and physical part that is so important.

A nice side effect of true raw feeding is there are no trips to the
vetspital unless there is an emergency or for the dreaded mandated
by law Rabies poke ........... grrrrrrrrrrr.

> or is this no
> concern at all >

########## NO COMMENT ! ! ! hahahahahaha

Best as Always,
Shirley & the Kitchen Wolves
imagegermanshepherds.com
est 1959

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
Posted by: "Shirley" ssthunderpony@yahoo.com ssthunderpony
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:37 am ((PST))

Hiya Roger ,
Welcome , grab a chair and lets chat ;-)

JSYK ........... We are not a BARF list.

Raw feeding is PREY model feeding so the dogs and cats get the
entire benefit of the TOTAL nutrition they need to thrive along with
the mental and physical part that is so important.

A nice side effect of true raw feeding is there are no trips to the
vetspital unless there is an emergency or for the dreaded mandated
by law Rabies poke ........... grrrrrrrrrrr.

> or is this no
> concern at all >

########## NO COMMENT ! ! ! hahahahahaha

Best as Always,
Shirley & the Kitchen Wolves
imagegermanshepherds.com
est 1959

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

7d. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:58 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "catar2catars" <roger.may@...>
wrote:
>
> On a few Dutch Barf boards, the rumour was spread that the
> FDA want to
> close down the raw dog food industry in the USA.

As far as I know it's just a rumor and personally I don't care if they
do or don't. It makes no difference to me or the way I feed. All
that stuff is just raw kibble anyway.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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8a. Re: Soft / edible bones
Posted by: "judy tallant" judy@tallant.com judyltallant
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:07 am ((PST))

In addition to salmon heads and tails, I give my golden retrievers
the skeletal remains of filleted salmon. I do have to cut these up as
they irritate (tickle, I think) the digestive system and sometimes
come back up if eaten in whole pieces. These are raw - so soft you
could wrap the salmon ribs around your finger like a ring - so no
chance of sticking your dog. I think that if the whole salmon filet
was still attached to them, they would go down and stay down.

On Nov 26, 2007, at 4:39 AM, sneza61_st wrote:

> Is there any possibility of fish bones to stick in her throat or
> elsewhere?

Judy Tallant
Snohomish, Wa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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9. dog with diabetes
Posted by: "Laura Stock" stockhouse@uniserve.com oceanchickens
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:07 am ((PST))

Hello. My parents have a 6yo medium-sized mixed breed dog who's just been diagnosed with diabetes. Has anyone here had any luck reversing diabetes by switching to raw?

Thanks!

Laura

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: Bone size
Posted by: "groomindiva67" redneckdiva@sbcglobal.net groomindiva67
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:08 am ((PST))

Andrea thanks so much. I think I am starting to get the idea. Just
talked to a friend of mine that is getting a new golden puppy. told
her about this forum and she is excited about learning this also.

Monica and the Redneck Crew

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. Re: Dr. Pitcairn's recipe questions
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:08 am ((PST))

"I would suggest forgetting about Dr. Pitcairn's book altogether.

What you want to feed is a prey model style raw diet which is raw meat, raw
bones covered in raw meat and some raw eggs. Zero fruits and zero veggies.

The standard way to start is to feed 2% to 3% of the dog's ideal adult body
weight. A 100 pound dog would be fed 2 to 3 pounds of raw food a day. Once
you have some experience feeding your dog a raw diet you can adjust the
amount depending on how much your dog actually needs.

You want to feed 80% raw meat, 10% raw bone and 10% organ meat (like liver
or kidney).

No ground anything."

Ditto what Ann said.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
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12a. Re: Deer carcases
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:08 am ((PST))

"Can i just give them the entire thing in the back yard?"

You can - I sometimes hack mine up into smaller pieces with a saw just so I
can freeze smaller pieces, which are still fairly large. It's up to you.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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13a. Re: new to rawfeeding with Dobes
Posted by: "Lisa Blair" lkblair@yahoo.com lkblair
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:08 am ((PST))

Hi, April. I'm in the Austin area, too. Feel free to email me offlist if you find anything.

Lisa

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogro ups.com, "arabianbluedobe"

<arabianbluedobe@ ...> wrote:

> Anyone here live near Lockhart, Tx about 1 hr souhteast of Austin?

> I would like to get a group together to buy in bulk. There is only

> one meat market near here. No fish markets either.

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Messages in this topic (3)
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14a. Re: Buying from the source
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:36 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "the swamp witch"
<theswampwitch@...> wrote:
>
> I am contemplating sourcing our meats straight off
> the farm.

Absolutely the best thing you can do if you can swing it.

> What kind of hassle is it to get the animal processed, etc?

DOn't have a clue. I've never done it.

> Thanks for any words of wisdom as we sort through this decision.

Wish I had some widom along these lines. I haven't had the
opportunity to do it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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15a. Re: Salmon Oil/How much???
Posted by: "cynthiashankman" ShankMa4@aol.com cynthiashankman
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:36 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> Since the origin of the recommendations is somewhat vague, I think
one
> can use /30 pounds or /20 pounds as one sees fit. It's hardly a
> formula and it is more about the dog than anything else. FWIW, I
give
> my 32lb dog one 1000mg capsule a day as "maintenance".
> Chris O

Thanks Chris, that is helpful!

Cindi
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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16a. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
Posted by: "Marci" twilli55@tampabay.rr.com mtm1will
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:36 am ((PST))

The only reason I feed daily is because weekly i'd have to give 1.4
lbs which is 1 1/2 meals of just organs. The like organ when mixed
with something else but not plain so I feed daily for that reason
only. I understand what you're saying though. Thanks for the
clarification.

Marci

> "Marci" <twilli55@> wrote:>
> > I was under the assumption that it was 10% if their daily meal or more
> > if you feed every few days...should I not be giving them organ every
> > day? So if my dogs get 2 lbs of food each day I give them about .2 lbs
> > of organ...if it's not a daily thing, how much should I give and how
> > often?
*********
>
> If you prefer to feed organs daily (for whatever reason) you'd feed 10%
> of the amount you feed daily. So you'd offer 1.6 ounces of organ if
> you were feeding 16 ounces of meal.
>
> If you prefer to feed organs once a week, you'd feed 11.2 ounces of
> organ meats because 16 ounces a day x 7 days is 112 ounces and 11.2
> ounces is 10% of that.
>
> But this is all very silly. What the "10% organs" says is you don't

> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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16b. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:37 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jordan_spiva" <jordan_spiva@...>
wrote:
>
> I feed my dog a diet of raw meaty bones from a variety
> of different animals.

Cool, that plus organs occasionally is all you need to feed. Forget
the other stuff. It is a waste of money and not really
accomplishing anything.

> It wont hurt. would it?

I won't hurt but it's not accomplishing anything.

> I use the premade as a supplement because my mom HATES the
> smell of tripe and organs which ushually complete a raw diet.

No need to feed tripe. In over 5 years of raw feeding I have never
one time fed tripe. I have never even seen any. I don't have a
clue what it smells like and don't care although I understand it's
not real pleasant. Organs don't smell all that bad. You can get
past that part. The smell of organs is an excuse not a reason.

> Plus I use it because venison and duck are really hard to find.

I feed venison when I can talk people into GIVING me some.
Otherwise I don't feed it. I have never fed duck in 5 years of raw
feeding.

> Plus even the website I buy
> from is always out of venison and duck because so many people
> are crazy about feeding it to their dogs.

Forget websites, they are much too expensive.

> I am getting nothing but positive comments from my vet after
> every checkup.

It's not the medallions causing that. It's the raw diet in general.

> If you want to suggest flicking off the premade,what should I
> use to replace it (besides tripe).

More of the other stuff you are already feeding. If you are not
feeding pork or beef roasts, they are good things to feed.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12318

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Questions on perground
From: jennifer_hell

2a. Re: Soft / edible bones
From: Andrea
2b. Soft / edible bones
From: h h

3a. Re: concerned
From: Andrea
3b. concerned
From: blue eyed
3c. Re: concerned
From: costrowski75

4a. raw food compagnies in the USA
From: blue eyed
4b. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
From: Marci
5b. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: new to rawfeeding with Dobes
From: Andrea

7a. Re: Support when making the switch?
From: blue eyed
7b. Re: Support when making the switch?
From: costrowski75
7c. Re: Support when making the switch?
From: Andrea

8a. Re: Making the switch
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: chicken necks
From: Andrea

10a. Re: South African Boerboel puppy question?
From: costrowski75

11a. Re: First Feeding
From: h h
11b. ADMIN/Re: First Feeding
From: costrowski75

12a. Bone size
From: groomindiva67
12b. Re: Bone size
From: Andrea

13a. Re: support when making the switch
From: costrowski75

14a. Re: Excessive urinating
From: costrowski75

15.1. New member
From: Kim

16a. Re: 8 Week Old Puppy
From: Geri

Messages
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1a. Re: Questions on perground
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:33 am ((PST))

My dog has teeth. She uses them for eating her food. And watching her,
I wonder how I could ever think that feeding anything that doesn't
need to be teared and chewed could be okay for any dog.

Jennifer

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jetblst2002" <bosboy101@...> wrote:
>
> I have been looking at a preground mix that has the bone, meat, and
> organs all ground together. Has anyone on here every used these
> premixes and if so how did you find them, did you have to add anything
> to them? Any info on these would be great.
>
> Travis
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Soft / edible bones
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:44 am ((PST))

> Can you give me the link or the list of soft / edible bones for
> Tina's size?

The only bones you should consider inappropriate to feed her are weight
bearing bones from very large animals (like cow legs). These bones are
too dense for safe eating, they can crack and damage teeth. All other
bones are options for her, though she'll decide wether or not she wants
to eat them. My GSP mix happily crunches through goat leg bones, but
my newf mix would rather just strip the meat off. I'm sure if he
wanted to eat the bone he could, he just doesn't choose to.

> Is there any possibility of fish bones to stick in her throat or
> elsewhere?

Only if you cook it or feed just fish skeleton. Fish bones when
encased in fish meat don't warrant a seccond thought.

> I can get chicken, beef, pork (meat, bones and organs), mackarel,
> sardines and other fish, and sometimes lamb or turkey. Is this enough
> variety?

Sounds good. There's no magic number for "enough" variety, but as long
as you try your best to keep giving new cuts or animals you're doing
fine. Just get started with one of the proteins and work up from there.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Soft / edible bones
Posted by: "h h" deedeekinsisme@yahoo.com tarbedyh
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:05 am ((PST))

Few weeks ago I switched to raw, so far no problems. Please help me
with these questions:
Can you give me the link or the list of soft / edible bones for
Tina's size?
Is there any possibility of fish bones to stick in her throat or
elsewhere?
I can get chicken, beef, pork (meat, bones and organs), mackarel,
sardines and other fish, and sometimes lamb or turkey. Is this enough
variety?
I appreciate any help.

~~~~~~~~~~~
Edible bones for a dog your size:
Any chicken
Any turkey
Any waterfowl/game bird
Any rabbit
Any fish that is smaller than your dog (not sure how hard the bones on a 8' fish are)
Most pork (some of the larger bones may or may not be edible depending on how much of a chewer your dog is)
Most venison (see pork)
Most lamb (see pork)
Most goat (see pork)
?? Emu/ostrich, gator, or any other exotic meat
Very little Beef (ribs and similar sized bones maybe)
Very little Buffalo/bison (see beef)
No elephant bone <g>

Can a bone get stuck--yes...but then kibble can get stuck in a dogs throat too.

The variety sounds fine...just as long as the vast majority isn't one protein source, you are doing fine. Don't forget to toss in those organ meats too. :)

HEIDI MARIE
~with the woofs-Cheyenne and Lazy B~
~and the moggies-Minerva, Shasta, and Misty-Jo~

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Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: concerned
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:52 am ((PST))

It's ok, I think he's probably eating too much food in one sitting.
How many times are you feeding him per day? If you are feeding twice,
change it so he's eating the same amount of food, just divided into
three meals. Also make sure you aren't generally feeding him too much
food.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dario" <nanterossi@...> wrote:

> I took the advice and and have been giving him drumsticks, and thighs
> (with drumsticks). Now he has really bad watery stools. Quite smelly
> too...

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. concerned
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:38 am ((PST))

Personally I don't feed turkey drumsticks and I would recommend that if if you know that the chicken is OK with him then skip a meal to let his tum rest and give him chicken for another couple of days, then once fine again, try introducing softer bones such as lamb flank, this is the soft rib bones on the belly/breast area, also contains a good amount of fat and meat to bone (about 50% bone) Keep him on the lamb (mutton is good too) for at least three days, as he is so little this is a good one to let him have a good chew and massage the gums. I would maybe take off a bit of the fat for him though.

The only way that I feed turkey is either turkey mince or whole turkey necks.

Natalie

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Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: concerned
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:00 am ((PST))

"dario" <nanterossi@...> wrote:
>
> My little 13 week old pupp has been on raw for a few weeks. I was
feeding him on chicken
> wings and some carcasses and his stools were really hard. I posted
up and had a few
> replies. I took the advice and and have been giving him drumsticks,
and thighs (with
> drumsticks). Now he has really bad watery stools. Quite smelly
too...What to doooo???
*****
I believe you have swung from one extreme to the other. I suggest
you return to the last food he successfully ate and stick there for a
while. It would be easier by far and probably more profitable to
feed chicken carcasses with a bit of meat added; or a wing with some
meat added than what you are doing now.

You may well be feeding too much food as well. Back off, simplify.

OTOH, persistent watery stools may be a symptom of bacterial
overgrowth/disease and can be dangerously dehydrating. If you do not
get prompt results from taking him back to his original diet, you may
want to get a fecal sample and see a vet.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. raw food compagnies in the USA
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:03 am ((PST))

So, they dont want to shut down/penilise companys who have poisoned pets with their already dodgy pre-packed kibbles, but they want to target the raw pet food industry? Hmm, whats in it for them?

Another panick as more and more people are trusting their own and their dogs instincts instead of the pet food companys marketing.

At the end of the day even if this is true they cant stop hunters selling their kill to the locals for their pets or people going to the supermarket and buying the cheapest finds they can get to feed their dogs.

Natalie

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Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: raw food compagnies in the USA
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:14 am ((PST))

"catar2catars" <roger.may@...> wrote:
>
> On a few Dutch Barf boards, the rumour was spread that the FDA want
to
> close down the raw dog food industry in the USA.
*****
The FDA would like to close down everything that moves independently
so that only BigPharm exists. Fat chance.

> After the recall of some contaminated prepacked frozen meat
packages
> from the Bravo Doog Food Cy, the FDA inspectors themselfs confirmed
> this to the manager of that compagny.
*****
If this actually was said, my guess it would have been in anger or
jest. I am not sure the statement was made, though it's possible the
owner of Bravo or an official spokesperson made the comment
personally.

The fortunate thing for raw feeders is that prefab foods (such as
Bravo offers) do not ever have to be a part of a good raw diet. As
long as there are sources of meat for human consumption, there will
be food for our dogs and cats.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
Posted by: "Marci" twilli55@tampabay.rr.com mtm1will
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:03 am ((PST))

Marci

The good news is that organs, including liver,
> only need to be about 10% of the overall diet, so it's not a daily
thing. at
> the most maybe a weekly thing, and then only a part of a meal...
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: Supplementing with premade raw?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:27 am ((PST))

"Marci" <twilli55@...> wrote:>
> I was under the assumption that it was 10% if their daily meal or more
> if you feed every few days...should I not be giving them organ every
> day? So if my dogs get 2 lbs of food each day I give them about .2 lbs
> of organ...if it's not a daily thing, how much should I give and how
> often?
*****
How often you feed organs (liver especially) is more a factor of how
well the dog does on it than anything else. If you have a dog that a.
doesn't appreciate big pieces of liver or b. produces squirty stools
when given more than a smidgen then you might consider feeding a small
amount of liver in each meal, or once a day.

If your dog is quite comfortable with larger pieces of liver, then you
may feed it once a week or even less, but in larger amounts.

10% is 10% is 10%.

If you prefer to feed organs daily (for whatever reason) you'd feed 10%
of the amount you feed daily. So you'd offer 1.6 ounces of organ if
you were feeding 16 ounces of meal.

If you prefer to feed organs once a week, you'd feed 11.2 ounces of
organ meats because 16 ounces a day x 7 days is 112 ounces and 11.2
ounces is 10% of that.

But this is all very silly. What the "10% organs" says is you don't
have to feed very much of the stuff. So don't. Whether you feed it in
bits daily or feed it in larger amounts once a week, or feed it like I
do when I remember, you'll be fine because it all works out in the long
run.

Just don't feed lots all the time.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: new to rawfeeding with Dobes
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:09 am ((PST))

Welcome to the group, April. I'm not in Texas, but I have some cousins
in Austin that I'm working on transitioning. Have you checked out the
Carnivore Feed Supplier list?

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/

You might want to do a search for Austin or Lockhart and see if there
are any groups already existing.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "arabianbluedobe"
<arabianbluedobe@...> wrote:

> Anyone here live near Lockhart, Tx about 1 hr souhteast of Austin?
> I would like to get a group together to buy in bulk. There is only
> one meat market near here. No fish markets either.

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: Support when making the switch?
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:33 am ((PST))

'if the stools don't improve he will take the puppy off raw and seek vet advice! We know what the vet will say, don't we!'

-NO NO NO please dont let him do this.

How about explaining that some pups are just like this for the first while anyway, regardless of what food they are on. He has just left everything he has ever known, his litter-mates, dam, old owners and gone through a food change as well as starting to learn everything new about his new home and owners.

'he looks good, he smells wonderful now (he stank when we got him last week: skin/fur, breath & stools were all smelly' Remind him that your hands, carpet.. will stink everytime you touch him if he goes back on kibble. Although I know you will probably already done so - I had this trouble when my OH first seen the dog with bones (before he stayed on the mat to eat them!)

I would say also that I would cut out the legs and switch to just chicken wings for a couple of days and you should see the stools firming up. Unless the fat is causing a problem I would leave the skin on the wings as your pup can then get enough calorie but have a higher bone content and still some meat, this should firm his stools up in no time.

Sometimes overfeeding can produce loose motions but try the chicken wings first before cutting down his food as he is so young. Calcium carbonate will firm the stools pretty quick you can get it in the chemist sold as an ant-acid for us but I would only do that if you are concerned about fluid loss through diahrea or something.

Some dogs are just different to others and you might find he does better with tripe and chicken together....some lamb...maybe its just that he is taking a while to settle, he has been reared on kibble and now raw...maybe chicken wont be his 'staple'

If all else fails tell him that I'm now saving about £140. per month on vet bills, simply because I changed my pup to a raw diet. If he wants details you/he are welcome to email me.

Also remind him of the higher risk of heart disease through poor dental hygene in K*@!le fed dogs, even if you use denta rasks, this could carry the risks of the dog becoming overweight in years due to their high calorie count, not to mention thyroid problems stemming from the additives and more tummy upsets than ever since so many kibble fed dogs seem to just get the runs every now and again without reason. On top of this once reached mid-life, its likley that he will need to spend about £500. on dental work anyway, oh and put up with the honking breath!

Hope the wings help,

Natalie

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Messages in this topic (12)
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7b. Re: Support when making the switch?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:53 am ((PST))

Eddie Scholten <shirl-ed@...> wrote:
> Our 8 wks GR puppy still has loose stools since we began feeding
him raw when we brought him home 6 days ago. Now, my fiance (who
happily agreed to feed raw - but never did any research on the
subject himself) is telling me that if the stools don't improve he
will take the puppy off raw and seek vet advice!
*****
Six days is bubkes. If the pup belongs to your fiance, perhaps logic
will help you. If the pup is yours, just say no.

> Am I feeding him too much?
*****
I suspect you are feeding too much per meal, through not necessarily
too much per day. I recommend you divvy the food over four meals
instead of three, and continue to remove the skin and any dangly
fat.

Also, it may be that the leg and wing bones are too difficult for the
kid. You might want to try just backs, with meat added if not in
every meal certainly half of them. You could also try quail, which
should be available at ethnic markets at a price on the upside of
affordable. I have found whole quail butterflied and slightly bashed
to be very kind to newbie pups. They weigh about four ounces each.

I doubt the boy is sick. When I see loose stools I automatically
think "oops, too much." Too much food, too much fat, too much
variety, too soon. Too much excitement, too much lifestyle change,
too much life in general can also cause loose stools.

Back off, simplify, provide quiet time, don't overstimulate the kid.
Taking a young dog to the vet for something as easily remedied as
loose stools is exposing the baby to a diseased environment FOR NO
REASON.

Prevail you, for the good of your fine young gr.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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7c. Re: Support when making the switch?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:43 am ((PST))

> I would say also that I would cut out the legs and switch to just
> chicken wings for a couple of days and you should see the stools
> firming up.

While I agree that less food and/or a little more bone would be very
helpful, I think chicken wings are too small for a golden pup (unless I
misunderstood and the dog in question is a small dog). Perhaps chicken
backs with some meat added would be a better bet if smaller meals
doesn't do the trick.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (12)
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8a. Re: Making the switch
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:44 am ((PST))

"paula.0666" <roogirl@...> wrote:>
but is it okay to switch a dog straight to all raw feeding or
> should there be a transitional phase?
*****
It's fine, Paula. The sooner you get the kibble out of the dog's life,
the better.

If you haven't joined Yahoogroups (the link is at the bottom of every
email you receive from this list), please do. Access to the message
archives will help you tremendously.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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9a. Re: chicken necks
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:49 am ((PST))

IMO there's no real reason to feed something purely because it is a
source of bone. Your dogs don't need a lot of bone in the first
place. Unless you are feeding multitudes of meaty meat you shouldn't
need to add necks.

> I also have one dog Toby that doesn't have very big teeth and has a
> hard time with the leg bone so I use shears and cut the bone up as
> best I can and give it to him that way

If it were me, I would feed bone in breast or wings on breast for the
time being. As your pups build up their jaw strength they will be more
able to tackle the leg bones and such. At first my cats couldn't chew
through anything more than chicken ribs, but now they can eat their way
through the whole chicken. It just takes time.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (8)
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10a. Re: South African Boerboel puppy question?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:01 am ((PST))

"footblack78" <footblack78@...> wrote:
My breeder that I am
> buying my dog from spoke to me about bone growth and protein. She
stated that it is
> important that I can slow the bone growth down, with using the right
food with the right
> percentage of protein can help.
*****
That's correct. It's often difficult for kibble feeders to know what
laboratory formula provides the "best" puppy nutrition; in fact it's
difficult for tame industry scientists to know what in real food is
important to try to replicate and what is not.

However, when you ignore the bought and paid for nonsense that comes
from the dogfood industry and look straight to the source (Ma Nature)
for the right stuff, it's easy peasy.

Quick fix: don't feed kibble, feed a raw diet based on whole prey (Ma
Nature's laboratory), using a variety of body parts from a variety of
animals.

I need some help in figuring out proper puppy/dog food,
> treats, chew bones, vitamin brands that are out there. Also what kind
of human food do some
> of you give your boerboel that continues to give them good health?
*****
Buy no "puppy/dog food", buy only the whole meats, whole meaty edible
bones and organs that puppy/dog food companies try to emulate. No
commercial food.

Treats can be anything that the dog considers special; chew bones are
redundant in a raw diet that regularly offers edible bones; vitamins
like almost all supplements are not necessary. In a raw diet, "human
food" and "dog food" are pretty much the same thing. With the
exception of raw green tripe (don't worry about this for the time
being) and road kill (although there are some people who will eat some
roadkill though probably not on this list but you never know), most any
food you buy for your pup will be food for a human, somewhere, somehow.

If you are writing from South Africa, I do understand that finding
sources for whole foods can be difficult. Still, I suspect with the
right amount of creativity and flexibility you will not once have to
feed your pup "puppy/dog food".

Please check out:
http://rawfed.com
http://rawfeddogs.net

And join Yahoogroups (the how-tos are at the bottom of each rawfeeding
post you receive) to access the group's message archives.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. Re: First Feeding
Posted by: "h h" deedeekinsisme@yahoo.com tarbedyh
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:09 am ((PST))

You did say one thing that bothers me greatly. It's a pet peeve of
mine. I suggest that you don't "take it away just to be sure she's
OK w/ that." More often than not people cause the very problem they
are trying to avoid using techniques like that.

~~~~~~~~~~
I'm going to have to disagree with you here Bill. The ability to take away something the dog is has in his mouth and/or is eating is very important. You never know if your dog might try eating something that could harm him, and if you don't establish to the dog that you have the right to take over any food it has (you are the alpha wolf type BS)--your dog may end up dead. Now, I wouldn't be forcing the issue if the dog has a problem with you near his food when you first switch to a raw diet, but with a little patience and training, you should be able to take anything from your dog to inspect and determine it is safe for the dog to have before giving it back.

HEIDI MARIE
~with the woofs-Cheyenne and Lazy B~
~and the moggies-Minerva, Shasta, and Misty-Jo~

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Messages in this topic (6)
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11b. ADMIN/Re: First Feeding
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:32 am ((PST))

This is not a diet issue. It is about resource guarding and resource
guarding is NOT a topic for the rawfeeding list. Please take ALL
discussion to RawChat or private.

Further postings on the subject of resource guarding are unacceptable.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (6)
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12a. Bone size
Posted by: "groomindiva67" redneckdiva@sbcglobal.net groomindiva67
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:09 am ((PST))

I have 1 golden 60lbs , 3 standard poodles 60lbs each, 1 standard/mini
30lbs and 1 Ridgeback 100 lbs. what is the good bones for my guys and
what should I stay away from. My father raises cattle so getting beef
processed for my dogs will be easy how should I have it done for the
dogs?? I can also get goat with no problem. what is good and bad
bones of a goat. I also can get fresh pork from my dad, can the dogs
have pork. I was always told to stay away from pork. I have fresh
pork heart and liver in my freezer as well as well as beef tongue.

how about chicken. I going to the store today to get chicken what
should I stay away from.

Thanks so much!

Monica and the Redneck Crew

Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: Bone size
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:50 am ((PST))

"groomindiva67" <redneckdiva@...>

> My father raises cattle so getting beef processed for my dogs will be
> easy how should I have it done for the dogs??

Big chunks of the beast are best. Don't feed any bare bones
(especially the leg bones). But legs with meat and sinew still
attached are ok if you take the bones away when they have been stripped
clean. Other parts of the cow should be perfectly usable.

> I can also get goat with no problem. what is good and bad bones of a
> goat.

All goat is good! Again, no naked bones, I get my goats 6-way cut.

> I was always told to stay away from pork.

Hogwash (pun intended)! Pork is a great addition to the party, and all
of it can be edible depending on wether or not the dog decides to eat
it.

> I have fresh pork heart and liver in my freezer as well as well as
> beef tongue.

Fantastic, you can feed them down the line, but I wouldn't use them as
first meats. Lots of dogs have to build up bowel tolerance for heart
and tongue otherwise they get loose stools.

> I going to the store today to get chicken what should I stay away
> from.

I'd stay away from anything smaller than chicken quarters. Lone wings
and lone drumsticks are too small for your crew. Sounds like you'll be
set once you guys get going. I'm jealous.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (2)
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13a. Re: support when making the switch
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:16 am ((PST))

Michael Moore <m-tak@...> wrote:
> Oh, geez, Chris, did you really dump coffee on people's heads over
rawfeeding??? LOL -- sorry, but I can indeed picture it!
*****
Alas, it was over a less vital topic than raw feeding. Imagine if you
will how I might respond to a raw feeding conflict. Oy.

Today, thanks to Valley Girls, if the person from whom the nonsense
spews is not worth the psychic energy, I just give 'em that really
really annoying "WHATever" and walk away. She who whatevers first wins.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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14a. Re: Excessive urinating
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:22 am ((PST))

Morledzep@... wrote:
>> i know that most folks don't think they do it, but female
dogs "mark" also.
> they squat many times and dribble just enough to leave a scent,
especially
> just before and during their "heat" cycle.
*****
Oh yes. One day I decided to count how many times my little Lab marked
while we were out for a lovely Spring walk. Fourteen. Fourteen times
she sniffed, piddled some paltry amount, and moved on. She had been
spayed at six months, she did not have a UTI, she was however a real
alpha bitch.

I think one really needs to know one's bitch to recognize the
difference. IMO if there's any doubt, consider testing.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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15.1. New member
Posted by: "Kim" kimamarok@yahoo.com shumonitu_siberians
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:05 am ((PST))

Hi all,

I thought Id post an intro as Ive just joined up.

Ive been feeding raw for about 13 years and have
never had any troubles with any of my dogs. When I
started out I just guessed what was best for my
dogs...then as I kept reading more I found out I was
on the right track!! I also dont use chemicals on my
dogs - Ive found alternative methods have worked for
us for years so no need to overload them with toxic
stuff they dont need!!

Ive raised one litter of pups raw fed and all went on
to homes that continued to do so (I kept one pup). I
try and get my rescues on to raw food as well. Also,
many friends and family now feed their dogs raw after
seeing how happy and healthy my dogs are and also from
learning that not everything vets tell us is whats
best for our dogs.

I currently have a 13 year old Begian Shepherd whos
only visit to the vet has been to be sterilised and
for an ear infection (which I now know how to treat
myself). He is a very fit dog and runs around like a
2 year old, his only problem is he is going deaf
although he still manages to hear the bag of bones
rustle!!

I also have a 8.5year old Siberian Husky (one visit
to the vet when a young dog jumped on her and pinched
a nerve in her neck), 3 year old Siberian Husky (one
visit - for a microchip!) and 9 week old Koolie pup.
Ive been very lucky with my dogs and put their good
health down to their appropriate diet!

I recently lost my 6 yr old male Siberian Husky,
although if it wasnt for raw feeding he wouldnt have
had as long as he did (he suffered a head injury as a
pup).

I was lucky in that my Koolie pup came from a working
farm so was fed bones and meat, so coming here and
getting proper food was no problem, I was happy to see
he sensibly chewed his food and wasnt a gulper! Even
after travelling almost 5000km to me he hasnt ever had
an upset stomach and he has grown so much in the one
and half weeks he has been here. I love watching him
(and all my dogs) get a great workout eating their
dinner.

I also know he will have an easier time when it
comes to loosing his puppy teeth, Ive known some
kibble fed dogs who suffer badly at the teething
stage, none of mine have ever had much trouble thanks
to their food.

I run my dogs in harness and I believe they gain peak
condition so quick because they get fed such good
quality food.

Ive recently moved and now live not far from a
slaughterhouse and free range, chemical free poultry
farm. So, once I get a freezer Im going to dive in and
buy some different meat for the dogs that Ive not got
before.... can anyone suggest what to ask for direct?

Ive never tried to feed things like chicken feet
and Ive never found anywhere to get green tripe... Im
tempted to ask for sheep or cow heads as I can imagine
the dogs would enjoy that too (do you let them eat
the brains????).

Anyway, thanks for letting me share, I hope to learn
more from this list and also to reassure anyone going
through the transition either to raw food or with a
pup on raw food - be content to know your doing the
best for your dog. I have seen so many dog's illnesses
go away after getting off rubbish junk/commerical food
and on to food they should be eating and my dogs are
proof enough for me that nature knows best!!

thanks

Kim

Shumonitu Siberian Huskies
*Raw Powered Sleddogs*
Western Australia

Siberian Husky Rescue,
Western Australia,
*180 rehomed since 2000*

wasled.com

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Messages in this topic (35)
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16a. Re: 8 Week Old Puppy
Posted by: "Geri" CapeWindMastiff@comcast.net capewindmastiffs
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:06 am ((PST))

Hi Tommy,

YOU may have only been feeding Caesar raw since 12 weeks, HE started
with raw at 3 weeks with me, out of generations of rawfed dogs:-)
Check your private email for advice of how to get my grandbaby
switched over to what you normally feed.

Get Brando OFF that k*bble crap ASAP. Hopefully with a bit more
mentoring Brando's breeder will make the jump to wean to raw.

You asked me to let you know how things went with my dogs being put
back on kibble short term since the fire. One word somes it up!
AWEFUL!!! You know I am a dedicated raw feeder, and will argue FOR
raw, and you KNOW what my dogs looked like on raw. It would break
your heart to see what this crap has done TO Cierra! Until we can get
the logistics worked out, I'm blowing about $25-30 per day at BJs to
feed the fur kids.

When we went to raw years ago, the improvements were VERY noticable,
and I knew things would not be great with kibble, but I had NO clue
of HOW bad the dogs would suffer.

--
Geri MacDonald
Mastiffs Raised Naturally
Mastiff Rescue Volunteer

http://CapeWindMastiffs.com

Messages in this topic (7)
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