Feed Pets Raw Food: Jan 6, 2008

Sunday, January 6, 2008

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12468

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: How much protein?
From: Sandee Lee
1b. Re: How much protein?
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: How much protein?
From: gypsyjazmine
1d. Re: How much protein?
From: gypsyjazmine
1e. Re: How much protein?
From: Yasuko herron
1f. Feeding a puppy concern
From: Mandy Walter
1g. Re: How much protein?
From: susrob061174
1h. Re: How much protein?
From: Sandee Lee
1i. Re: How much protein?
From: darkstardog

2a. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: Sandee Lee

3a. Re: Feeding Hope
From: carnesbill

4a. Re: Tight budgets...and NEW Raw-fed Furbabies!
From: godkrittersnkids
4b. Re: Tight budgets...and NEW Raw-fed Furbabies!
From: T Smith
4c. Re: Tight budgets...and NEW Raw-fed Furbabies!
From: godkrittersnkids

5a. Re: poop discussion
From: carnesbill

6a. Ooops...My intro!
From: h h

7a. Re: Pork? / wild hog
From: linoleum5017
7b. Re: Pork? / wild hog
From: Laurie Swanson
7c. Re: Pork? / wild hog
From: godkrittersnkids

8a. Re: I got TONS of free meat!!
From: A.

9a. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
From: Elizabeth
9b. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
From: Yasuko herron

10a. Re: Tip to those with tight budgets
From: Heather

11a. Re: Portion size for Mastiffs
From: tdifr62

12a. Re: Horse Turds
From: susrob061174

Messages
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1a. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:15 pm ((PST))

www.pedigreebreeder.com.au
"Protein nutrition is obviously still not completely understood, however it
is an essential part of every dog's diet. You can't give too much protein in
your dog's diet; however quality not quantity makes the difference."

www.purina.com
"Dietary protein requirements are much higher for growing puppies than
for fully grown dogs. In addition to supplying the protein needed to support
protein turnover and normal cellular metabolism, protein is needed to build
growing muscles and other tissues."
"Research at the Purina Pet Care Center and at other facilities has
shown that puppies fed inadequate protein do not grow as well and are more
susceptible to health problems than those fed nutritionally complete diets.
At the Pet Care Center, English setter puppies that were fed a low-protein
diet showed stunted growth compared to puppies fed higher levels of protein.
However, when the protein level was increased in the puppies at the Pet Care
Center, the deficiency was corrected."
"Concern about protein causing developmental bone problems in
large-breed puppies has led some breeders to reduce the amount of protein
they fed. However, in research published in 1993 based on studies of Great
Dane puppies at Utrecht University in the Netherlands, it was shown that
dietary protein does not contribute to these problems."
"Herman A. Hazewinkel, D.V.M., Ph.D., professor of veterinary medicine
at Utrecht University, led the research that found no detrimental effects
from protein levels up to 32 percent of the diet. However, puppies fed a
diet of only 15 percent protein showed evidence of inadequate protein
intake."
"Too low protein decreases the growth rate of puppies and also their
immunological response," Hazewinkel says. "This is true for large- and
small-breed puppies. An adequate protein level should be higher than 15
percent."
"This study, conducted in young Great Danes during their first
half-year of life, concluded that dietary protein increased to 32 percent
does not negatively affect skeletal or cartilage development in these dogs.
The research also confirmed that dietary protein did not have detrimental
effects on liver and kidney functioning."
So the conclusion of the above referenced research stresses the need
for high quality protein to achieve the best growth and immune systems. No
proof was found that protein amounts affect skeletal growth in any adverse,
except when using too little or too poor quality.

www.eukanuba-eu.com
This article reiterates that high protein does not cause OCD or HD, in
either the hips or elbows:
Research into the growth of Great Danes (Nap RC, The Netherlands,) has
shown that the protein level of a diet has no significant influence on
skeletal development. High protein intake does not result in increased risk
for OCD or HD, and there is no effect on the development in the longitudinal
growth of the bone."
Additionally, while protein does not cause orthopedic problems, other
nutrients can.

www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu
"In addition to excessive calcium intake, researchers have shown that
over nutrition can also initiate these disturbances in skeletal maturation
and growth. An excess protein intake, without an excess of other nutrients
revealed NOT to influence skeletal maturation and growth in growing Great
Danes (Ref. 2)."

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "gypsyjazmine" <GYPSY_JAZMINE@MSN.COM>

Are you saying that there isn't too much protein in RAW or that high
protein isn't a concern?

Messages in this topic (15)
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1b. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:22 pm ((PST))

"gypsyjazmine" <GYPSY_JAZMINE@...> wrote:
> Are you saying that there isn't too much protein in RAW or that high
> protein isn't a concern?
*****
I think we're saying raw meat is not just about protein and it's clear
from the USDA site that raw meat is about lots more. And since this is
a rawfeeding list, what happens to protein kibble is not a salient
issue.

In a raw diet there is no such thing as too much protein.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (15)
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1c. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "gypsyjazmine" GYPSY_JAZMINE@MSN.COM gypsyjazmine
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:32 pm ((PST))

I love Tibetan Mastiffs!
& ty for your input!...I have my 1st CH bitch & a CH stud that is
complimentary picked out & I am interested in getting on RAW full time
& being able to wean my 1st litter to RAW...Ty all who answered me!
I am sure I will be around with many more questions though! ( :
Michelle
Samsong Great Pyrenees
Iowa

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "windmilldairy" <drwindmill@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Michelle
> I raise Neapolitan Mastiffs and in the past Tibetan Mastiffs, and
when feeding raw do not
> concern yourself with the protein. Too much protein will burn out
dogs and make them grow
> too rapidly. Just feed meat and don't worry about it....They will
be beautiful.
>
> Pat

Messages in this topic (15)
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1d. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "gypsyjazmine" GYPSY_JAZMINE@MSN.COM gypsyjazmine
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:34 pm ((PST))

K..gotcha & ty for clarifying! ( :
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "gypsyjazmine" <GYPSY_JAZMINE@> wrote:
> > Are you saying that there isn't too much protein in RAW or that high
> > protein isn't a concern?
> *****
> I think we're saying raw meat is not just about protein and it's clear
> from the USDA site that raw meat is about lots more. And since this is
> a rawfeeding list, what happens to protein kibble is not a salient
> issue.
>
> In a raw diet there is no such thing as too much protein.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (15)
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1e. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:45 pm ((PST))

Hi. If you look at this site http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20F3.html

I picked Cornish Game Hen(with Skin,meat,fat,raw state) and if you see thesite,you can easily can tell how much actual protin in the Cornish game hen. 63% fat,37% protin,0% carb.

Human tend to call meat "Protin" but actual nutrition in the meat is not just protin but it has fat too. some meat contains tiny amount of carb like 1% or so.I forgot which meat it was but I have seen it.

I think that high protin concern is orginally coming from liver problem.Because in the past,people thought protin consumption is damaging organsin dog,but now,after some resarch,people know that protin is highly digestable and not going to damage organ.

Since unlike kibble,our way of feeding is preservative free,additive free,too much or too little vitamins in meal, and no damage is made in nutrition by high heat and food itemsare real meats,organ,bone,so,I can tell you that you would not regret choosing rawfeeding for your dog.

I think rawfeeding is best diet that people can give for dogs,and let them be live longer,healthier than before.

I would not regret my choice.

yassy

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

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Messages in this topic (15)
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1f. Feeding a puppy concern
Posted by: "Mandy Walter" mandy.0613@hotmail.com mandy07cherries
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:20 pm ((PST))

Hi Everyone, I am fairly new to the forum, I have just been reading the discussions. I am new at feeding raw and I have 4 puppies. I was told that I needed to buy the pre-packaged raw in order to balance the meal for the puppies. I found that my puppies front legs started turning out when I was giving the chicken quarters. I wasnt sure how to balance their meals or if there was something I was doing wrong. I was giving more than just the chicken of course. I gave organ meat, green beans, yogurt, pumpkin, etc etc.

In order to make life easier and instead of asking advice I switched back to kibble (big mistake) I had bloody diarhea for days. To say the least they are all back on raw. I guess I just had to try switching back for myself. I will never go back to kibble, raw has changed their lives for the better!

My biggest question and concern is how and what to feed my growing puppies. They are border collies and high energy. I have a hard time keeping weight on them so I would give beef often but when I did that I found they got the runs. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks so much!Mandy
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

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Messages in this topic (15)
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1g. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "susrob061174" susrob061174@yahoo.com susrob061174
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:37 pm ((PST))

Hi Sandee,

Thanks for the research information you have provided. I have a
question. When they did this research, what type of protein were they
giving, meat based or grain based? This researching being from a
variety of K****E companies, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could
throw them and that ain't far.

Thanks

Susanne, Courtney & the Danes (Zoe, Wilson & Annie)

Having a Dane is Grand? Have you licked your Dane today? :P

Messages in this topic (15)
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1h. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:21 pm ((PST))

All of the studies were not carried out by kibble companies and they do
state that quality is important.

Regardless, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Several of the up
to date studies regarding protein and kidney disease were done by dog food
companies, Waltham has admitted dogs have no need for carbohydrates, Iams
has put out studies showing that dogs require meat based protein. Selling
their food is all about business and profit...that doesn't mean they don't
know the truth or that all of their studies are unfounded.

Anyway, if we follow nature our pups will have all the nutrients they
require for perfect growth without us worrying about doing a balancing act.
Controlled growth is a result of feeding appropriately which is prey
model....that means lots of meat, a little bone and organs.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "susrob061174" <susrob061174@yahoo.com>

Messages in this topic (15)
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1i. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "darkstardog" darkstardog@charter.net darkstardog
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:37 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "susrob061174" <susrob061174@...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks for the research information you have provided. I have a
> question. When they did this research, what type of protein were they
> giving, meat based or grain based?

Bloodmeal, casein (dehydrated), soyabean flour, corn gluten meal
(these were protein sources). Also, hominy feed, potato starch, wheat
middlings, sugar, tallow, soyabean oil, etc.

marty

Messages in this topic (15)
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2a. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:17 pm ((PST))

Nope...don't measure up! :)) I actually harvested and froze since they
were easier to process when crunchy...and of course had to get enough to
make it worthwhile, and gather up all of the other supplies. Definitely
silliness!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Casey Post" <mikken@neo.rr.com>

> > Do I win????
>
> Well...I'd say it beats me if you pulped them up within minutes of
> harvesting so as to get the maximum amount of *phytonutrients* (cool word!
> Not helpful for canids, but oh so important sounding!) for your dogs.
>
> Isn't it nice that we can look back and laugh at our silliness?

Messages in this topic (18)
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3a. Re: Feeding Hope
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:29 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Atkinson" <hopenfox@...>
wrote:
>
> Does this sound okay? Would you do anything differently?

Sounds to me like you have made the necessary adjustments and all is
going great. If she looks good physically, has good teeth, and is a
happy energetic dog, what else could you ask for? If one of those
things are missing, try to adjust to take care of it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Tight budgets...and NEW Raw-fed Furbabies!
Posted by: "godkrittersnkids" godkrittersnkids@yahoo.com godkrittersnkids
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:30 pm ((PST))

This is a wonderful program! My 2-footed kids and I just took part in
this program last month, are looking forward to this month, and
NOW...as of last night...there are 2 more kids in my home who will be
taking advantage of these bargains>>>MY BOYS ARE RAW-FED!!!!

I'm so excited...the looks on their precious faces were AMAZING!
Jackie, the 80-lb Labradawg, age 8, and Lonnie, the 34-lb B/C mix, age
14-1/2 (!), are just as happy as could be.

After only 2 (1 yesterday, 1 today) meals, they are more content, sleep
better, and their eyes just light up when I hand them their chicken.

Jack caught on more quickly than Lonnie...both have been fed k***le
their entire lives. Tonight, Jack was done pretty quickly, chewing and
crunching very well; I was afraid he was going to be a gulper.

And, my darling old boy took about 25% the time tonight that it took
him last night!

I'm so proud of both of them.

OUR thanks to all of you who have posted the last 5-6 weeks while I've
lurked...I, like another newbie from last night, am one to study
something to the hilt before jumping in. I have learned a huge amount
of information which I pray I can use to the utmost to make my boys'
lives longer, healthier, and happier.

Thank you again so much...I am SOOO excited!

Linda
Jackie, Lonnie, and (the soon-to-also-be-rawfed) Annie, kitty
extraordinaire!

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "homesforallpets"
<homesforallpets@...> wrote:
>
> I found a very interesting program. Its called Angel Food Ministries
> they do a monthly box deal and if you get the box you can get the
> monthly specials. This month's special is 20# of chicken breasts
> (don't remember if its boneless or not) for $20. This could work out
> to help feed the people and the dogs! For $50 you get lots of food
> for both. I believe the website is angelfoodministries.com might
> be .net or .org I'm not on my computer at the moment.
>
> Kathy in MO
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: Tight budgets...and NEW Raw-fed Furbabies!
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:21 pm ((PST))

Nothing for WA state.
oh well.
Trina

On Jan 6, 2008 7:31 PM, godkrittersnkids <godkrittersnkids@yahoo.com> wrote:

> This is a wonderful program! My 2-footed kids and I just took part in
> this program last month, are looking forward to this month, and
> NOW...as of last night...there are 2 more kids in my home who will be
> taking advantage of these bargains>>>MY BOYS ARE RAW-FED!!!!
>
>

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Messages in this topic (5)
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4c. Re: Tight budgets...and NEW Raw-fed Furbabies!
Posted by: "godkrittersnkids" godkrittersnkids@yahoo.com godkrittersnkids
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:37 pm ((PST))

SOOOO sorry to hear that ... :(

Linda

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> Nothing for WA state.
> oh well.
> Trina
>
> On Jan 6, 2008 7:31 PM, godkrittersnkids <godkrittersnkids@...>
wrote:
>
> > This is a wonderful program! My 2-footed kids and I just took
part in
> > this program last month, are looking forward to this month, and
> > NOW...as of last night...there are 2 more kids in my home who
will be
> > taking advantage of these bargains>>>MY BOYS ARE RAW-FED!!!!
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Re: poop discussion
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:31 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rolypolyloly" <einafets83@...>
wrote:
>
> I found large chunks of bone laying
> in the yard (we feed her inside) and have no idea why it is there.

It was probably inside the early poops. Don't worry about it. It's
normal and will stop in time. It's normal for poops to turn white
in a day or two and turn to dust only to wash away the next time it
rains. I have 2 Great Danes and pick up poop maybe 2 or 3 times a
year when we go a long time between rains.

> Also, some of her poop was very crumbly and grainy. I don't
> know why it should be grainy.

Don't worry about it. Its normal. I THINK its bone powder but I'm
not sure. Just a guess.

> I am most worried about the mucus-like slime that
> was on a lot of her poop.

Don't worry about it. I suspect is a type of lubracation to help it
pass through the intestines. It will also decrease over time.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Ooops...My intro!
Posted by: "h h" deedeekinsisme@yahoo.com tarbedyh
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:31 pm ((PST))

We would probably be on RAW 100% by now but we moved across the state
to a completely unfamiliar & rural area & I am finding my
"connections" here still....

~~~~~~~~~~
Not sure where in IA you are, but there's a "BARF Iowa" group that mainly has members from Des Moines and on East. Not the most active list, but they can tell you where some of the "connections" can be found. (just ignore the neck/back & veggie talk)

Heidi on the other side of the Muddy Mo.

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: Pork? / wild hog
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:32 pm ((PST))

***
Donna,

What is BF? I'm picturing a Bishon Fries (or however you spell it!)
running down a 300 lb. sow..... not a realistic image! Please assist.

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Donna Forrester <birdiegirl67@...>
wrote:
>
> My BF just killed a wild sow hog, over 300 pounds live weight. Out
> freezer is stocked, and everything we didn't keep for ourselves will
go
> to the animals- my 4 dogs and 6 cats. > Donna
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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7b. Re: Pork? / wild hog
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:19 pm ((PST))

Lol--thanks for the chuckle, Lynne--usually that means boyfriend!

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "linoleum5017" <linoleum5017@...>
wrote:

> What is BF? I'm picturing a Bishon Fries (or however you spell it!)
> running down a 300 lb. sow..... not a realistic image! Please assist.
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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7c. Re: Pork? / wild hog
Posted by: "godkrittersnkids" godkrittersnkids@yahoo.com godkrittersnkids
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:21 pm ((PST))

lol...I'm thinking that was an abbreviation for boyfriend....

Linda
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "linoleum5017" <linoleum5017@...>
wrote:
>
> ***
> Donna,
>
> What is BF? I'm picturing a Bishon Fries (or however you spell it!)
> running down a 300 lb. sow..... not a realistic image! Please assist.
>
> Lynne

Messages in this topic (8)
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8a. Re: I got TONS of free meat!!
Posted by: "A." ols@charter.net cesare.1920
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:33 pm ((PST))

> How did you word it? I posted I fed my dog raw and wanted any
> unwanted meat including what folks were unsure were ok for people
to
> eat (ie too old, off odor) got raw feeders yelling at me for
> attempting to poison my dogs and telling me this is not what raw
> feeding is all about.
>
> Kathy in MO
>

****I just put something like the following in each ad-

"I am feeding 2 large dogs on a natural diet for health reasons. It
gets quite expensive and we will take meat, scraps from hunters,
organs... basically any extra meats you don't want! We would even
take freezer burned meat! We can use just about anything you have,
even meat that has been frozen for years.

Please respond if you have anything."

I didn't know you couldn't ask for meat. I haven't got any rude
responses yet but I have gotten quite a few offers for small
amounts. Problem is they are to far to drive to still be worth it
(craigslist doesn't have a city closer to me so I post in the
surrounding).

~Amanda

Messages in this topic (22)
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9a. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:34 pm ((PST))

I was just making sure that there was not some sort of sizable
difference between feeding heart or feeding regular muscle meats, or
if I would be missing something from buying heart as the muscle meat.
I also wasn't sure if there is any reason why I couldn't feed
exclusively heart as a muscle meat instead of regular muscle meat,
since heart is cheap, cheap, cheap! I can buy lamb, beef, chicken and
pork hearts. I don't feed much chicken heart, but the others appear to
work very well for my dog.

It's not that I am looking to limit menu items, but my dog gets gassy
and itchy when she eats turkey and chicken, and she hates rabbit and
raw fish. We cannot find venison for a good deal around here, nor can
I acquire goat for a decent price, and am still looking for suppliers
for elk and bison. Otherwise I would certainly feed those, too. I've
posted, on numerous occasions, to the Carnivore Feed Suppliers list
and have found nothing so far. I keep trying, though.:)

The best score I made recently were some pheasant innards that my
father gave me from a hunting trip. He went deer hunting, but sadly,
his bounty was zero.

-Liz

Messages in this topic (8)
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9b. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:19 pm ((PST))

>I also wasn't sure if there is any reason why I couldn't feed exclusively heart as a muscle meat instead of regular muscle meat,

Hi,Liz.Heart tends to make poo softer andif you fed too much(more than dog can torelate),then you get runny poo. You probably can try give small bits andgradually increase theamount if dog could not torelate amount you like to feed. Herat is very nutritious and great item and I too feed animal heart from many kinds.

> my dog gets gassy and itchy when she eats turkey and chicken,

Check the label. Are they enhanced any ways like broth?? After Thanksgiving,I too got Turkey for cheaper price but,I found that fresh Turkey wasenhanced with brothand frozen one was just retaining water up to 2% or something.sometimes,such enhancing or salt solution cause itchying to dogs.

>she hates rabbit

Mine too! First couple of times on introduction phase,she did ate it but after some times,on second round,she went on longer strike not to eat it by laying on side on eating mat,not looking meat at all and if she ever ate it,then,she made such a disgusting face and I ended up giving rabbit to other rawfeeder.

>raw fish.

Did you try quick searing method?That helped my dog. But my dog cannot be fed catfish because for some reason,all shedoes is roll on the fish with delightful smile on her face,and no eating,just engaging on rolling on it and make her fur stink like catfish.

>nor canI acquire goat for a decent price,

Sometimes, Asian store carry it I hear.Where do you live? If you live in east coast,you can get goat rib from Hare today in PA. and for Vewnison,if you could fuind hunter friend it works great.

>for elk and bison.
I feed Elk and buffalo from Colorado and,the owner,Jan is nice person. Some of the item she carry like Buffalo tongue or hearts,you need to buy in 10lb as minimum amount so,you may need so so space in freezer. From CO to VA, it comes with 2 day Air and shipping fee is little high. So,I decided to order once a year or 6 months gathering up what is out of stock in my freezer for palette though.If you live closer to CO, then,shipping fee may not be a prob.
Are you interested?it is at www.elkusa.com

>The best score I made recently were some pheasant innards that my
father gave me from a hunting trip. He went deer hunting, but sadly,
his bounty was zero.

Maybe even if not all thetime but now and then,he could get lucky with deer,and you may get wholedeer.That is good thing.

I get pheasant whole from Hare today in PA too.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (8)
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10a. Re: Tip to those with tight budgets
Posted by: "Heather" newbeginnings06@gmail.com malignstar
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:35 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "homesforallpets"
<homesforallpets@...> wrote:
>
> I found a very interesting program. Its called Angel Food
Ministries
> they do a monthly box deal and if you get the box you can get the
> monthly specials. This month's special is 20# of chicken breasts
> (don't remember if its boneless or not) for $20. This could work
out
> to help feed the people and the dogs! For $50 you get lots of food
> for both. I believe the website is angelfoodministries.com might
> be .net or .org I'm not on my computer at the moment.

You can buy chicken quarters at Walmart - 10 lb bag for $4.70. My
stepdad gets food thru Angel Food and I think it's cheaper to buy at
Walmart when you do a price per pound comparison. :)

Heather

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: Portion size for Mastiffs
Posted by: "tdifr62" tdifraia@comcast.net tdifr62
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:38 pm ((PST))

I have 2 Mastiffs. My oldest is a 14 Mo Old Male, and weighs about 180
lbs. He is VERY lean and still growing. He has been on raw since I
brought him home from the breeder, who is a raw feeder. My breeder
educated, coached and guided me all the way. I am VERY grateful for
her. Thank god because having dogs all my life, I never knew just how
good a raw diet is, and how bad kibble is. What a difference it makes.
Thank You Geri!!!
My 180 lber eats between 2-6 lbs a day. I go by what I fed him the
past few days and adjust accordingly. Lets say he had a small bony
meal the previous 2 days, lets say.. .Turkey necks and chicken backs,
with very little meat (which is what I usually feed when he has loose
stools), Ill go with a meatier meal ie... a whole chicken (4-5 lbs)
cut in half and served in 2 seperate meals, or some chicken backs with
a nice HUNK of beef heart and a slab of beef liver.
Some days he gets 2 lbs, some days he gets 5 lbs. I go for balance
over time. I keep an eye on his form and if he looks like hes getting
a lil chubby, Ill cut back a bit. If I see a few ribs popping out Ill
increase the meals. It really is about balance over time. I use the
guidlines 60-70 / 40-30 / 10. Being RMB / Meat / Organs. I make sure
he gets a good variety of poultry, beef, fish, pork, and now and then
lamb. The thing that I enjoy the most is watching how excited he gets
when I prepare his food.
My other is a 14 week old Male. He gets the same variety and
methodology, but I break his meals up into smaller portions and feed
3-4x a day. He weighs 48 lbs and is also lean. He will eat until he
explodes so I watch his amounts closer than my older boy. He will eat
between 2 and 4 lbs a day. Also I watch his body shape and make
adjustments. I walk these boys daily. The youngest just began to join
in on the daily hikes thru the woods. Also I take in to consideration
the distance and the intensity of the walks. On short walk days they
eat less, long hauls they eat more. Theres nothing more rewarding than
watching these 2 boys drool, moan and dance around while Im preparing
there food after a nice winter walk thru the woods. They really ENJOY
there meals. I could not imagine what it would be like if I was
placing a bowl of kibble in front of them every day.

So in a nutshell the 14 month old gets between 1 and 4 % of his body
weight on a daily basis. Over time he gets about 2%.

The 14 week old baby gets between 4 and 8 % on a daily basis, and over
time Id say he gets 6% of his body weight.
Good Luck, and dont ya JUST love the Mastiffs?

Tommy D.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/6/2008 11:37:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> ols@... writes:
>
> I was wondering about how many pounds you rawfeeders with Mastiffs (or
> other giant breeds) are feeding a day? How old are they and how much
> do they weigh too?
>
>
>

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Horse Turds
Posted by: "susrob061174" susrob061174@yahoo.com susrob061174
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:37 pm ((PST))

Hi Loraine

I was told about 10 years ago before I started to feed RAW that horse
or cow turds is great for dogs. I now run to the cow pasture to just
get some. It aids the digestive tract with Vit K to rid bad bacteria.

Susanne, Courtney & the Danes (Zoe, Wilson & Annie)

Life is grand when you love a Dane? Have you licked your Dane
today? :P

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12467

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: How much protein?
From: costrowski75
1b. Re: How much protein?
From: Sandee Lee
1c. Re: How much protein?
From: windmilldairy
1d. Re: How much protein?
From: Bumble1994@aol.com
1e. Re: How much protein?
From: gypsyjazmine

2a. Re: My first post:: an intro and a ?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

3a. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: costrowski75
3b. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: Sandee Lee
3c. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: Casey Post
3d. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: poop discussion
From: Chia
4b. poop discussion
From: Erika
4c. Re: poop discussion
From: homesforallpets

5a. Re: Portion size for Mastiffs
From: Morledzep@aol.com
5b. Portion size for Mastiffs
From: A.

6a. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
From: Elizabeth
6b. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Question about "sawdust" scraps from butchers
From: katkellm

8a. Re: Feeding raw egg to new puppy
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: woohoo great buy found
From: homesforallpets

10. Tip to those with tight budgets
From: homesforallpets

11a. Re: I got TONS of free meat!!
From: homesforallpets

12a. Re: Getting over intimidation (was Portion sizes)
From: costrowski75

13a. Re: Honey?
From: costrowski75

14a. Re: Varying views
From: costrowski75

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:49 pm ((PST))

"gypsyjazmine" <GYPSY_JAZMINE@...> wrote:
>> I have an x-large breed & am getting further into RAW feeding & am
> interested in the % of protein when feeding RAW.
*****
A XL breed dog needs the exact amount of protein meat contains. No
matter what meat, the amount of protein it has is the right amount.
There is no worry.

Check out the USDA nutrition database. Pick a meat, fill in the blanks
as requested, get your answer. You'll find the range of protein in
various meats does not vary substantially. Figure off hand that meat
is about 2/3 water.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:56 pm ((PST))

Hi Michelle,

It's not protein you need to be concerned about when growing a large breed
puppy. In fact, you just about cannot feed too much protein.

But, you are right, raw isn't just protein....it's meat and bone and lots of
moisture, gristle, ligaments, etc. Here are some of the stats....

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
100g beef chuck
19% protein/62% water

100g pork shoulder
17% protein/62% water

100g chicken
18% protein/66% water

100g domestic rabbit
20% protein/73% water

BTW, Great Pyrenees isn't an x-large breed...they are tiny! :)) Just
kidding!!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "gypsyjazmine" <GYPSY_JAZMINE@MSN.COM>

I had someone explain to me once that feeding RAW doesn't carry as
much protein as one might think.
I have an x-large breed & am getting further into RAW feeding & am
interested in the % of protein when feeding RAW.

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "windmilldairy" drwindmill@gmail.com windmilldairy
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:02 pm ((PST))

Hi Michelle
I raise Neapolitan Mastiffs and in the past Tibetan Mastiffs, and when feeding raw do not
concern yourself with the protein. Too much protein will burn out dogs and make them grow
too rapidly. Just feed meat and don't worry about it....They will be beautiful.

Pat

> I had someone explain to me once that feeding RAW doesn't carry as
> much protein as one might think.
> I have an x-large breed & am getting further into RAW feeding & am
> interested in the % of protein when feeding RAW.
> Ty in advance!
> Michelle
> Samsong Great Pyrenees
> Iowa
>

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:03 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 1/6/2008 8:43:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
"gypsyjazmine" writes:

am interested in the % of protein when feeding RAW

****
Hi, Michelle,

You can go to this website, put in "raw," click on whatever meat type you
want--like "poultry," choose the specific sort of meat you want, and the first
thing on the page that comes up for that meat is how much of it is moisture.

_http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/_

(http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/)

Lynda

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1e. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "gypsyjazmine" GYPSY_JAZMINE@MSN.COM gypsyjazmine
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:05 pm ((PST))

Ty to both who replied to my post & ty also for the helpful links!
I am not sure that I agree though that too much protein isn't a
concern for rapidly growing large breed or giant breed pups...I agree
that RAW doesn't have too much protein but in kibble or premade RAW I
feel there can be too much...Before I knew anything about RAW I fed
Samson a kibble that was too high in protein & he had horrible growing
pains to the point I was sure he must have had joint problems...When I
switched to a kibble that was lower in protein he improved greatly in
a very short time.
Are you saying that there isn't too much protein in RAW or that high
protein isn't a concern?
Ty!
Michelle
Samsong Great Pyrenees
Iowa

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Michelle,
>
> It's not protein you need to be concerned about when growing a large
breed
> puppy. In fact, you just about cannot feed too much protein.
>
> But, you are right, raw isn't just protein....it's meat and bone and
lots of
> moisture, gristle, ligaments, etc. Here are some of the stats....
>
> http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
> 100g beef chuck
> 19% protein/62% water
>
> 100g pork shoulder
> 17% protein/62% water
>
> 100g chicken
> 18% protein/66% water
>
> 100g domestic rabbit
> 20% protein/73% water
>
> BTW, Great Pyrenees isn't an x-large breed...they are tiny! :)) Just
> kidding!!
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: My first post:: an intro and a ?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:49 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 1/6/2008 2:56:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, oznnik@msn.com
writes:

Now for my question, I have a bag of boneless chicken breasts that is
freezer burned. It's in a solution of up to 15% of water and kosher
salt (to help prevent freezer burn....hahaha!). Can I still feed to my
dogs? Will it cause diarhea? Thank you! I appreciate all of the
information you all provide. :)

Nikki,

i would feed them to the dogs.. just add a breast to a regular chicken meal
now and then. they'll be gone in no time.

I buy those chicken breasts too, and chicken tenders with the kosher salt
solution. I buy them for fish food though.

Catherine R.

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:55 pm ((PST))

"Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
> I did however grow most of my own veggies for the dogs! Does that
make up
> for it?????
*****
Depends on how you grew them! Vegetable oneupmanship is a tough game
to play.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:00 pm ((PST))

Well, I didn't use any chemicals and carefully chose seeds to get a good
variety. Weeded, watered and harvested with my own two little hands...and
then very carefully processed them along with all of the other required
nutrients.

Do I win????

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "costrowski75" <Chriso75@AOL.COM>

Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:06 pm ((PST))

> Do I win????

Well...I'd say it beats me if you pulped them up within minutes of
harvesting so as to get the maximum amount of *phytonutrients* (cool word!
Not helpful for canids, but oh so important sounding!) for your dogs.

Isn't it nice that we can look back and laugh at our silliness?

Casey

Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________

3d. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:12 pm ((PST))

Tammy and Bill, please take this conversation private. It's run it's
course here.
Thank you.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: poop discussion
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:59 pm ((PST))

Hi guys... have been feeding my girl raw for ~3 weeks now and because
she is pooping smaller, less messy poops, I haven't bothered to pick
it up out of my yard in awhile. I went out to pick it up today, and am
a little bothered by what I saw. I found large chunks of bone laying
in the yard (we feed her inside) and have no idea why it is there.
Also, some of her poop was very crumbly and grainy. I don't know why
it should be grainy. I am most worried about the mucus-like slime that
was on a lot of her poop. I had rubber gloves on, so I pulled the
slime off, and it came away from the poop in one piece. Very very
weird. She is seeing the vet tomorrow (unrelated to raw feeding-- I
think she has a tumor on the underside of her tongue) and will
probably stay the night with the vet. Hopefully, if anything is out of
the ordinary, he will notice.

#### you mean you found small pieces of undigested bone in her stool?
Or, do you mean other pieces of bones that you did not feed and it's a
mystery why they're there?

Poop, especially after a couple of days in dry air, IS crumbly and grainy,
this is half the beauty of it. Imagine the bones, going in a highly acidic
stomach. The acids 'burn' those buns into a granular slurry and the end
product is whitish sort of poop, depending what was fed of course. All
normal, no worries. This is how anal sacs get expressed divinely.

Mucous is a bit of inflammation in the intestines and it acts to cushion
and ease those stools as well. No worries and this will disappear in a few
weeks, promise.

Hope your dog's vet visit goes smooth. I would hate that and I KNOW I
would spend the night sleeping right next to my silly boy. ;-))

Chia & Ricco

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Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. poop discussion
Posted by: "Erika" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:06 pm ((PST))

Others will probalby respond with more info for you but to put it simply, yes this is all normal :)

The "slime" will go away with time unless you are feeding any dairy. When I started out I fed yogurt since I did not know any better, lots of slime. No yogurt, slime went away ;)

I pick up my yard once or twice a day so that no one steps in it. (seven dogs a poopin can fill up a yard fast even if the poop is small) RAW poop is so well digested that the poop will fall appart rapidly in the yard, especially if you have rain! The bones you are finding most likley passed though in a poop and the poop part melted away into dust before you got to it. Don't worry they are all getting passed through and in a couple of weeks your dogs digestive system will be fully consuming the bones.

Check your yard on a daily basis and you can better evaluate how yur feeding effects your dog. What goes in directly affects what comes out haha. If you notice FRESH poops that are white and crumbely this is because you are feeding to much bone and need to reduce the amount you are feeding. This will aslo cause straining and constipation. Normal poops will CHANGE to white and crumbely in about a days time and then start to fall apart.

Hope that helps. Others who know more feel free to comment ;)
Erika

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: poop discussion
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:06 pm ((PST))

Beware the large bones in the yard! I lost a Doxie mix to people
tossing cooked meat on bone to her. I have filed three complaints
and had two teens caught this WEEK tossing meat in my yard. Police
called to let me know their lab said it was clean but the thing is it
was COOKED! COOKED bone can KILL. Be sure the bone you find is what
you have been feeding before dismissing it.

Kathy in MO

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rolypolyloly" <einafets83@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi guys... have been feeding my girl raw for ~3 weeks now and
because
> she is pooping smaller, less messy poops, I haven't bothered to pick
> it up out of my yard in awhile. I went out to pick it up today, and
am
> a little bothered by what I saw. I found large chunks of bone laying
> in the yard (we feed her inside) and have no idea why it is there.
> Also, some of her poop was very crumbly and grainy. I don't know why
> it should be grainy. I am most worried about the mucus-like slime
that
> was on a lot of her poop. I had rubber gloves on, so I pulled the
> slime off, and it came away from the poop in one piece. Very very
> weird. She is seeing the vet tomorrow (unrelated to raw feeding-- I
> think she has a tumor on the underside of her tongue) and will
> probably stay the night with the vet. Hopefully, if anything is out
of
> the ordinary, he will notice.
> Any thoughts?
> -Stefanie
>

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Portion size for Mastiffs
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:02 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 1/6/2008 11:37:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
ols@charter.net writes:

I was wondering about how many pounds you rawfeeders with Mastiffs (or
other giant breeds) are feeding a day? How old are they and how much
do they weigh too?

Amanda,

i have a few large or close to giant dogs, my big wolfdog guy weighs in at
around 150 lbs depending on the time of year. We also have another slightly
smaller wolfdog, and akitas and a great dane pup, along with a variety of other
dogs all but 2 are 80 lbs or more.

the under 100 lb dogs get 1 - 2 lbs per day, or a BIG hunk every other day.
The bigger dogs, over 100 lbs get 2 - 3 lbs per day or a BIG hunk every other
day.

Today we have lamb shoulders, beef head meat, 2 chickens and some big fish
thawing. Everybody will get at least one fish, then the bigger dogs will get
either half a chicken or one of the pieces of the lamb shoulder and my poor old
golden dude that can't eat bones much anymore will get a heaping helping of
beef head meat after he eats his fish.

Tomorrow everyone is eating turkey, i have a 23 lb turkey thawing for
tomorrow. i creatively cut it into 9 pieces. the smaller dogs get the wings and
legs, the larger dogs get thighs, and the breast get whacked into 2 or 3 pieces,
and of course, one boneless piece..

Catherine R.

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Portion size for Mastiffs
Posted by: "A." ols@charter.net cesare.1920
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:06 pm ((PST))

Some people prefer the look of a heavier more massive mastiff but
mine are sleek and slim, I keep them that way untill they are 3 then
allow them to put on more mass and have always done so. They live
longer and have much healthier joints for it. By doing this even
when I was feeding kibble my 7 year old with severe hip displasia
now still runs and jumps around with the young pups which is amazing
considering that she should be a slow senior in the average lifespan
of these dogs ;)
>
> Hope that helps,
> Erika

****Thanks for the info!! My 16 month old female (about 110-120 pds)
was getting about 2 pounds a day but it seemed like she was still so
hungry. I have upped her to about 3 pounds but she still seems like
she could eat more! She is an English Mastiff and not highly active,
probably medium energy level depending on the day. I am trying to
decide whether to add more food or not. I also want to keep her
slender for the first few years. Some think she is underweight but
the vet says she is just fine. I also worry about hip and joint
problems and believe this will help.
Does 3 pounds sound ok to you or should I let her decide the amount?
She is such a piggy I am afraid she will pork up if she gets to
choose :)

~Amanda

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:02 pm ((PST))

Oh, I feed my dog fish, too. I have a difficult time finding goat for
a good deal, but if I ever find a good supplier I will throw it in the
mix as well! Same goes for elk/venison and bison. My regular supplier
just recently added elk, venison and bison to their menu, but no
prices are listed yet, so I guess I'll wait and see!

-Liz

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:16 pm ((PST))

"Elizabeth" <rainsou1@...> wrote:>
> I've been considering simplifying my dog's diet to beef, pork and
> lamb. These are the 3 protein sources she does best on, as well as
> eggs. Does anyone else feed exclusively 3 sources?
*****
My guess is there are people who through circumstances wind up relying
on three protein sources and--like as not--less than three. I would
hope though that no one is setting her sights on exclusivity as a
goal. If chicken doesn't work well, by all means reduce its presence.
There's turkey to feed instead.

In fact--and this is my point--there are quite a few other animal
protein sources that one should be open to should they become
available. Goat is lovely if/when you can get it. So is venison and
duck and pheasant and of course rabbit and wild salmon. I believe it
would be akin to cutting off one's nose to spite one's face to
arbitrarily limit the menu.

I am not saying you have an obligation to feed through the dictionary.
I am merely suggesting welcoming variety when you can, and using
variety to assure you are providing adequate nutrition.

I was thinking about feeding heart more often as a muscle
> meat, too.
*****
Heart IS a muscle meat. Any heart, not only beef heart. IMO, whatever
heart meat you can get, get. Pork, lamb, beef, chicken, turkey: do
it. You're not substituting anything when you feed heart as meat.
You're just feeding heart. Which is fine.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Question about "sawdust" scraps from butchers
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:03 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "A." <ols@...> wrote:

> I will just give a little of the sawdust at each meal to get rid of it-
> you don't think that will hurt will it?
>
Hi Amanda,
No, it is fine to feed. I would feed it if i had it. I just wouldn't
make it a staple of my dog's diet. If you have access to a meat
processor, you can do waaay better than sawdust. KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Feeding raw egg to new puppy
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:03 pm ((PST))

"Bill & Jan Pace" <bija@...> wrote:
>
> I have started an 8 week old puppy (Wire Fox Terrier) on a raw diet.
<snippet>
> Can I give raw egg to the new puppy or should I wait until she is
older? If I should wait, when is a good time to introduce the egg?
*****
Age is not the issue, digestive experience is. An egg may (or may not)
cause runny poops. This doesn't mean a sick dog, just a dog that ate
more than its machinery could process. 'Twere me, I'd wait until I
knew how the pup did on raw, until the pup had gotten accustomed to
more essential food like meat, fat and bones.

OTOH, I rarely feed eggs at all, so I'm perfectly willing to shine 'em
on indefinitely. My 15 month old "pup" (where DOES the time go?) has
not had an egg yet.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: woohoo great buy found
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:05 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, gsdlvr62@... wrote:
>
> My 2 GSDs are fed mainly chicken quarters that i get cheap at
> walmart...

Alot of people keep mentioning this and I found it today! Tomorrow we
get paid and I am getting 2 bags! $4.70 for 10lbs is not bad.

Today i hit the jackpot.....My local Giant Eagle
> has pork spare ribs on sale for 99 cents a pound....i bought 20
pounds and
> would of bought more had i the money.

I know how that feels and hey, good job on the buy!

Kathy in MO

Messages in this topic (3)
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10. Tip to those with tight budgets
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:06 pm ((PST))

I found a very interesting program. Its called Angel Food Ministries
they do a monthly box deal and if you get the box you can get the
monthly specials. This month's special is 20# of chicken breasts
(don't remember if its boneless or not) for $20. This could work out
to help feed the people and the dogs! For $50 you get lots of food
for both. I believe the website is angelfoodministries.com might
be .net or .org I'm not on my computer at the moment.

Kathy in MO

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Re: I got TONS of free meat!!
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:06 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, steven muse <musesteven@...> wrote:
>
> A,
>
> Great! I'm going to try the Craigslist thing, how did you word
your request & in what section?
>
> thanks!
>
> w. va. steve
>

Be careful usiing craigslist I got TONS of emails yelling at me for
posting for meat because its a prohibited item. I kept getting
flagged too.

How did you word it? I posted I fed my dog raw and wanted any
unwanted meat including what folks were unsure were ok for people to
eat (ie too old, off odor) got raw feeders yelling at me for
attempting to poison my dogs and telling me this is not what raw
feeding is all about.

Kathy in MO

Messages in this topic (21)
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________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Getting over intimidation (was Portion sizes)
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:47 pm ((PST))

"katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
> Feeding BIFLO (big food less often) is one way to feed raw, but it
is
> by no means a requirement or a necessity or such,
*****
Right. Perhaps if I wrote OFFERING Big Food Less Often, you would
look more kindly on the concept. Whether the dog is permitted to eat
all of the "larger than to be consumed hunk of meat" or the dog is
permitted to eat a pound of the stuff, the physical result is the
same--ripping and tearing and otherwise getting involved with one's
food. (It's sort like the difference between a sit-down dinner at
the table and eating over the sink.)

There is a very short and uneventful step from ripping off one pound
of flesh and ripping off all the flesh. I suspect once one is
acccustomed to the notion of OPFFERING big food, the notion of EATING
big food is less daunting.

OTOH, if a dog is put off by sheer size, it hardly matters whether
the dog is supposed to eat but a pound of it or is supposed to eat
the whole thing: The initial approach size remains the same.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (13)
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________________________________________________________________________

13a. Re: Honey?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:01 pm ((PST))

Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Ladies?
> Um, whether to feed honey or not isn't really the point.
>
> Nor is the type of honey to feed.
>
> The point is, its not species appropriate.
>
> This maybe should be redirected to raw chat, no?
*****
Thank you Giselle.
You're right.

Please move the honey discussion to RawChat or take it private.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (9)
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14a. Re: Varying views
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:09 pm ((PST))

Nanette <nanettechols@...> wrote:
> When we gave our guys kibble with raw they threw it all up. That was
> the last kibble meal they ever got. We went right to raw and haven't
> looked back. We've kept the bone portions up but in week 3 are
> begining to back off for one and not for the other. Each dog is
> different and will let you know what is right. Just try something and
> see what happens. We tossed the kibble...
*****
Nanette, I think you misunderstand. I was not recommending dragging
out the move to raw food. I believe my post was pretty clear on that.
The OP wanted to know how the transition happens; I told her.
Explaining something is not necessarily endorsing it.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12466

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Portion size for Mastiffs
From: Ken Hyde
1b. Portion size for Mastiffs
From: Erika
1c. Re: Portion size for Mastiffs
From: Ctjb4@aol.com

2a. Re: woohoo great buy found
From: Amy Tracy

3a. Re: Honey?
From: Amy Maywald
3b. Re: Honey?
From: Giselle

4a. Re: I got TONS of free meat!!
From: steven muse

5. First Meal - Not without questions!
From: itissuki

6a. Re: Future newbee in training
From: Giselle

7a. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: tammyco5@aol.com
7b. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: carnesbill

8a. My first post:: an intro and a ?
From: Nikki
8b. Re: My first post:: an intro and a ?
From: katkellm
8c. Re: My first post:: an intro and a ?
From: carnesbill

9a. Re: Varying views
From: Nanette

10a. Re: Wow people are nutz!
From: timberdolly
10b. Re: Wow people are nutz!
From: T Smith
10c. Re: Wow people are nutz!
From: Heather

11. cost of raw feeding
From: Michelle R

12. Feeding Hope
From: Diane Atkinson

13a. Re: Getting over intimidation (was Portion sizes)
From: homesforallpets

14. How much protein?
From: gypsyjazmine

15a. Re: Question about "sawdust" scraps from butchers
From: A.

16. poop discussion
From: rolypolyloly

17. Ooops...My intro!
From: gypsyjazmine

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Portion size for Mastiffs
Posted by: "Ken Hyde" kenh83@yahoo.com kenh83
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 12:46 pm ((PST))

You need to feed them 2-4% of their body weight daily. You'll notice if they do not eat all then do not continue to feed what you feed when they did not eat it all.

Ken

----- Original Message ----
From: A. <ols@charter.net>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2008 2:09:32 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Portion size for Mastiffs

I was wondering about how many pounds you rawfeeders with Mastiffs (or

other giant breeds) are feeding a day? How old are they and how much

do they weigh too?

I am still adjusting what I am feeding my girls & finding the best for

each and was curious how close I am to others :)

~Amanda

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Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Portion size for Mastiffs
Posted by: "Erika" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 2:55 pm ((PST))

Mine varry greatly in portions. I don't exactly weigh every thing to the same amount every feeding I just get close to the amount within 1/2 lb and balance out the next day. My oldest is about 95lb 7 years old, still highly active but spayed female she gest any where between 1-2 lb but like to keep close to 1.5lb. 2 breeding age females age 2 & 4, about 125lbs each both get between 2-3 lbs keep closer to 2.5lbs same for my stud male who is little over 2 and at 96lbs (should fully mature to 125) Another female I keep closer to 2lbs and she is about 115lbs and 3.5 yr
My biggest mouth is my 2yr old male who is now 145lbs and should be at 160 full grown like his father. He gets between 3-5lbs and is a varacious eater! He once ate a 14lb turkey in one sitting! He was so fat and happy but only untill the next evening haha!

So you can see there can be a wide range for what is the right amount to feed. My dogs are Bordeaux mastiffs and have a very high muscle mass on them, they are actively playing in the yard with each other several times a day. Some people prefer the look of a heavier more massive mastiff but mine are sleek and slim, I keep them that way untill they are 3 then allow them to put on more mass and have always done so. They live longer and have much healthier joints for it. By doing this even when I was feeding kibble my 7 year old with severe hip displasia now still runs and jumps around with the young pups which is amazing considering that she should be a slow senior in the average lifespan of these dogs ;)

Hope that helps,
Erika

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: Portion size for Mastiffs
Posted by: "Ctjb4@aol.com" Ctjb4@aol.com ctjb4
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 3:40 pm ((PST))

I have Mastiffs (English as sometimes called). My male just turned 2 and I
allow him to eat as much as he wants at every feeding. He is super lean and all
muscle last vet appointment he weighed 197 pounds. Honestly I need to put
another 20-30 pounds on him. But, he is a funny eater and I have found letting
him chose how much is better. I normally give him give put about 10 pound in
his bowl twice a day. I let him eat as much as he wants and pick up what is
left and serve it with more added next meal. I have a 3 year old also very
lean and muscled female who weighs 140 pounds she too could stand to gain about
10 pounds I feed her the same way but only put about 5 pounds in her dish
each time. Another female 18 months old 170 pounds not as lean but well muscled
was eating around 2-3 pounds a day and now all of the sudden is eating more
like 5-6 pounds a day I think she is fixing to hit another growing spurt. Also
feeding a litter of 5 puppies who are 3 months old weigh between 40-50
pounds each. They are each eating between 2 -3 pounds a day. Would eat more if I
let them but really should have any more than that right now.

I think each and every dog is different the biggest thing is just to work
with your dog and figure out what is the best amount for your dog. You want a
lean dog and to be able to feel the last rib.

Melisa

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

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Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: woohoo great buy found
Posted by: "Amy Tracy" amypatriciatracy@gmail.com rosiesmomlovesrosie
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 12:47 pm ((PST))

We also found pork picnic and spare ribs today for 99 cents a pound!!!
Cheap pork days here in Chicago! Amy and Rosie

On 1/6/08, gsdlvr62@aol.com <gsdlvr62@aol.com> wrote:
> My 2 GSDs are fed mainly chicken quarters that i get cheap at
> walmart....i am always looking for buys under a dollar a pound for other
> types of meat
> but have not had much luck .Today i hit the jackpot.....My local Giant
> Eagle
> has pork spare ribs on sale for 99 cents a pound....i bought 20 pounds and
> would of bought more had i the money.I asked how long they were gonna be on
> sale and was told till gone....theyre left over from new years,...they
> only
> had about 2 cases left. These are nice meaty spare ribs.....almost a shame
> to
> give them to the dogs instead of humans LOL....but my guys deserve a nice
> treat... so for next 4-5 days spareribs it is.So make sure and check out
> those
> grocery store meat depts now.
>
> Amber
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: Honey?
Posted by: "Amy Maywald" amy1k@patmedia.net lovgoldens
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 1:33 pm ((PST))

Hi Kerry,
I just got my first package of Active Manuka Honey in the mail
yesterday! I bought it primarily for my golden who has, what seems to
be, acid reflux. Do you give it to your lab eveyday? How much do you
give and do you put it on her food?

Does anyone know if this is a palliative or curative treatment? I have
an appt with my homeopath tomorrow for her, I'll be sure to ask him his
thoughts on it.

Thanks,
Amy

> I give my Lab Active manuka honey for upset tummies. >

Messages in this topic (8)
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3b. Re: Honey?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 2:59 pm ((PST))

Ladies?
Um, whether to feed honey or not isn't really the point.

Nor is the type of honey to feed.

The point is, its not species appropriate.

This maybe should be redirected to raw chat, no?

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

Hi Kerry,
> I just got my first package of Active Manuka Honey in the mail
> yesterday!
>

> <snip>
>

>
>
> Does anyone know if this is a palliative or curative treatment? I have
> an appt with my homeopath tomorrow for her, I'll be sure to ask him his
> thoughts on it.
>
> Thanks,
> Amy
>
> > I give my Lab Active manuka honey for upset tummies. >
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (8)
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4a. Re: I got TONS of free meat!!
Posted by: "steven muse" musesteven@yahoo.com musesteven
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 1:33 pm ((PST))

A,

Great! I'm going to try the Craigslist thing, how did you word your request & in what section?

thanks!

w. va. steve

"A." <ols@charter.net> wrote:
I wanted to thank everyone on here who posted ideas on how to get
free/cheap meat.

I went to my butchers and got 25 pounds of meat trimmings/scraps
along with "sawdust" scraps for $7.50!

(By the way, he said if I took the whole 400 pound barrell I could
have it for free. I am in the Truman Lake area of Missouri if anyone
wants to go in on that. I certainly have no room for 400 pounds lol)

I also put an ad on Craigslist and got an answer the first day. A
lady is an end of life caregiver and her client had lots of frezer
burned meats they were going to throw out. We met up with her
yesterday and she gave us the lot of it. I am so excited, there is
about $250-$300 worth of meat! Lots of fish too which is usually a
bit to expensive for me to buy much of.

Between both deals I will be feeding my Mastiffs for $7.50 for
awhile :)

~Amanda

Oh yeah, one question- the sawdust. It is just a bag of everything
including bone. Do I need to be careful how much of this I feed? I
don't really know how much of everything is in it, it may be a lot
of bone and I don't want to overdo it.

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (20)
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________________________________________________________________________

5. First Meal - Not without questions!
Posted by: "itissuki" itissuki@gmail.com itissuki
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 1:33 pm ((PST))

Hi again,

I went out this morning & bought a few fryer chickens & chicken leg quarters (and pork for
later). Today is THE day! I portioned it out to freeze because I don't want to overfeed
starting out.

First I fed Hansel, my boston a couple ounce of semi frozen thigh. I could tell he wanted
to put his paw on it to rip but, it was cold and wet (he's dainty!). So, he chewed, crunched
and kept regurgitating it back up into a foamy slime. That's normal right? It does really
scare me. Being a brachycephalic breed, he's prone to snorting, gurgling and an
occasional cough but will this aspirate into his lungs?

I would eventually like to feed him bigger pieces but he guards. I don't think I should
begin feeding raw by taking it away? I think it helped being alone with him and not having
Ethan (boxer) or Muriel (cat).

Next was Ethan's turn. I had gotten some sample chicken necks and had given him one a
while back with no ill effects so I made a meal of it. I don't think I will ever buy them, since
they scare me. They were partially frozen and he crunched them up happily. While I was
cleaning up, he wanted to go out and I watched him from the window. He threw up and
ate them again. That too, is perfectly normal, right?

It's funny, while reading posts from beginners, I seem to be more objective. Now that
begun, I need the reassurance! Feel free to chime in :-)

Thanks,
Suki

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: Future newbee in training
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 2:32 pm ((PST))

Hi, Anna!
YQW!
Sounds like a plan!

Just don't get stuck in a rut, plan to explore Ram's digestive abilities
(cautiously) with a wide variety of proteins, animal parts and organs asap.

Keep us posted on your progress!

* As an aside, for all you newbies out there who worry about bones getting
stuck, etc. and so forth; today my girl got a small(ish) chunk of lamb neck
wedged between her upper and lower teeth/left jaw - all the way in the back.
This is the first time I remember anything like this happening with her,
(she's nearly 7) as she is a thorough and careful chewer for any dog, let
alone a Newf! She's always within my sight when eating, and I noticed her
flipping her jaw to the side - evidently she had gotten the chunk too far
back into her mouth to chew it - got it wedged, she wasn't frantic, but
hadn't yet gotten to the point of pawing at her mouth to dislodge it. I held
her collar with one hand, and reached into her mouth with the other and
wiggled it free.

Then, since the offending bit (it was 3/4s the size of my fist!) was going
straight into the trash, I tossed her a jackpot of what I had close by - a
handful of cheddar goldfish crackers!

The Jackpot! was for trustingly letting me dig around in her mouth (she can
be guardy with food) and so she wouldn't be traumatized by what had happened
and so much more likely to let me do something similar in the future. Not
that I expect it ever to happen again!

This is a "Don't Worry, Be Happy, But Be Vigilant And Proactive " doggie
safety statement. ^_^

TC
Giselle
with Bea (of the BIG mouth and teeth) in New Jersey

Hi Giselle,
>
> Actually, the post you linked was one of the ones that convinced me
> that sooner is better for my boy.
>

> <snip>
>

> Thanks for the advice and
> encouragement!
>
> Anna, Ram and Polly
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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7a. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "tammyco5@aol.com" tammyco5@aol.com tamm1232000
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 2:55 pm ((PST))

Hi Bill,
I am not going to go through each point you made as I see you are not open
to learning anything new. I'm not into arguing. There are a lot of things I
don't know about and am excited when I learn new things. Probiotics is something
I know well and I have seen firsthand the difference they make. You can
believe what you want. That's your right.

Tammy

In a message dated 1/6/2008 12:33:36 P.M. Central Standard Time,
carnesw@bellsouth.net writes:

I disagree with this. Probiotics do much more than just aid
> with digestion, but does a very good job with this!

Thats what the probiotic manufacturers would like you to believe.
They spend a lot of money promoting this false idea. It's like the
kibble companies promoting the idea that kibble is good for out dogs.

> Yeast is a fungus, (bad bacteria), and
> probiotics are strains of good bacteria. You need to replace
> the bad bacteria with the good.

No, just killing the bad is quite sufficient. Most of the time you
don't even have to do that. The immune system will take care of it.

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:28 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, tammyco5@... wrote:
>
> I am not going to go through each point you made as I see you
> are not open to learning anything new.

Oh, quite the contrary, I learn new stuffs all the time. Almost
every day. You are not countering my points because you can't.
They are factual.

> There are a lot of things I
> don't know about and am excited when I learn new things.

Problem is that you are evidently learning things that are not
factual. Be careful what you take into your brain. If you don't
filter the information going in, your brain ends up full of garbage.

> Probiotics is something
> I know well and I have seen firsthand the difference they make.

Go back and read my story about the flu in my previous post. You
are the one who got the shot. You incorrectly credit the shot with
curing your flu.

> You can believe what you want. That's your right.

I "believe" very little. I know what I know and what I don't know.
I draw conclusions based on what I know. Sometimes I guess at what
I don't know. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (13)
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8a. My first post:: an intro and a ?
Posted by: "Nikki" oznnik@msn.com nausdemore
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 2:56 pm ((PST))

Hi everyone! This is my first post here, but I've been reading and
lurking for about a month now. I've adopted a yellow lab from a
breeder who raw fed and have continued to feed him raw and switched my
12 year old Daschund to raw as well. We've seen great results with it
and really enjoy seeing our guys so happy and full of life!

Nikki, mama to 3 human boys and 2 canine boys.

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. Re: My first post:: an intro and a ?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:05 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Nikki" <oznnik@...> wrote:

> Now for my question, I have a bag of boneless chicken breasts that is
> freezer burned. It's in a solution of up to 15% of water and kosher
> salt (to help prevent freezer burn....hahaha!). Can I still feed to my
> dogs?

Hi Nikki,
Nice to meet you. I am glad that your dogs are doing so great. If it
was just freezer burned chicken, it would definitely be ok to feed.
The reason i wouldn't feed it is because it has been enhanced with
salt. Lots of dogs that do great on chicken have a reaction to any
kind of enhancement that they inject into chicken. KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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8c. Re: My first post:: an intro and a ?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:38 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Nikki" <oznnik@...> wrote:
>
> I have a bag of boneless chicken breasts that is
> freezer burned. It's in a solution of up to 15% of water and
kosher
> salt (to help prevent freezer burn....hahaha!). Can I still feed
> to my dogs?

Absolutely.

> Will it cause diarhea?

There is no reason to think it would if they otherwise tolerate
chicken well.

If you decide not to feed it, you can send it to me and I will not
hesitate to feed it to my 2 dogs and 2 cats. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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9a. Re: Varying views
Posted by: "Nanette" nanettechols@gmail.com nanettechols
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 3:40 pm ((PST))

On Jan 4, 2008 10:38 PM, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "muirghealfinne" <muirghealfinne@...> wrote:
>
> I have a four year old field spaniel that
> > weighs thirty-five pounds. I don't know exactly how to go about
> > transitioning her.
> *****
> You transition her by adding raw meat to her kibble, by removing one of
> her kibble meals and replacing it with a "RMB" and over some
> unspecified amount of time you reduce the kibble and increase the raw
> meat until you've stopped feeding kibble. That's how you transition a
> dog to raw.
When we gave our guys kibble with raw they threw it all up. That was
the last kibble meal they ever got. We went right to raw and haven't
looked back. We've kept the bone portions up but in week 3 are
begining to back off for one and not for the other. Each dog is
different and will let you know what is right. Just try something and
see what happens. We tossed the kibble...

Nanette with Hagrid and Petey in St. Paul

Messages in this topic (4)
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10a. Re: Wow people are nutz!
Posted by: "timberdolly" pasqualina@comcast.net timberdolly
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 3:40 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "krheintgen" <krheintgen@...> wrote:
>
> ...you are not the first to have been
> > blasted when mentioning raw on craigslist. I think the best advice
> is to
> > not use that word! ..... You can use phrase such as "home-
> prepared" and
> > some have mentioned that because of health problems their vet has
> > recommended a home made diet, etc.
>
> Yea -- When I post for freezer burned meat on my local Free Cycle I
> just say I am using to "make dog food." A true enough statement,
even
> if all I do to "make" the food is unwrap it...
>
> Kathy R.
>The vet techs acted as though I said, "Hi. I just had sex with my
son". when I said I fed raw at one hospital. Another person I mety, had
company run out of her house, when she let the dogs, prewash her plates
before putting them into the blazing hot dishwasher. They said, "We
can't believe you fed PEOPLE from those!". For laughs, Lynne

Messages in this topic (20)
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10b. Re: Wow people are nutz!
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 3:57 pm ((PST))

We don't have CL close enough to me but here's what I use for
freecycle...Feel free to use it :-) It's worked for me & no meanies
replied.

<<< We feed our dogs a natural diet and are looking for any unwanted or
freezer burned meat you may have lurking in your freezers. Any kind of
meats, organs (heart, liver, kidney) & Fish, whole or pieces.
Must be raw/uncooked - with or without bones, unseasoned. No need to throw
any of it away, we will take it off your hands for you.

IT'S HUNTING SEASON SEASON! Hunters leftovers also welcome. No heads
please.

Willing to travel XXXX & XXXX for fair amount(s). Local XXXX residents, we
will pick up any amounts!
We feed several disabled dogs; including Great Danes. We have room to hold
any amount of meats you have to offer!
Thank you, our dogs will appreciate all your efforts.
Please email, it is much faster to get ahold of us. If'd you like our phone
number to call, let me know. >>>

GOOD LUCK!
Trina

On Jan 6, 2008 3:33 PM, timberdolly <pasqualina@comcast.net> wrote:

> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "krheintgen" <krheintgen@...> wrote:
> >
> > ...you are not the first to have been
> > > blasted when mentioning raw on craigslist. I think the best advice
> > is to
> > > not use that word! ..... You can use phrase such as "home-
> > prepared" and
> > > some have mentioned that because of health problems their vet has
> > > recommended a home made diet, etc.
> >
> > Yea -- When I post for freezer burned meat on my local Free Cycle I
> > just say I am using to "make dog food." A true enough statement,
> even
> > if all I do to "make" the food is unwrap it...
> >
> > Kathy R.
> >The vet techs acted as though I said, "Hi. I just had sex with my
> son". when I said I fed raw at one hospital. Another person I mety, had
> company run out of her house, when she let the dogs, prewash her plates
> before putting them into the blazing hot dishwasher. They said, "We
> can't believe you fed PEOPLE from those!". For laughs, Lynne
>
> <http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f232/coldbeach/>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (20)
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10c. Re: Wow people are nutz!
Posted by: "Heather" newbeginnings06@gmail.com malignstar
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:41 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> We don't have CL close enough to me but here's what I use for
> freecycle...Feel free to use it :-) It's worked for me & no meanies
> replied.

I tried to post on my local Freecycle and they told me asking for food
was against the rules! I can post food I don't want but can't ask for
it.. even though it's for my dog and cat. I never got replies of CL
either. :( I envy all of you that hit it big that way.

Heather

Messages in this topic (20)
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11. cost of raw feeding
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:27 pm ((PST))

I currently feed 14 of my own dogs, plus 2 cats plus 2 of my moms dogs raw and feeding mostly venison, which I can get free, plus chicken about twice a week, which is cheap...I get the 10 pound bag of leg quarters from walmart. Then every so often I will get a duck (its only 99 cents/pound.) I average about $30 a month for ALL of these dogs. Of course, all are small (except one) , and I am lucky all do very well eating bunches of the good free venison. I splurged the other day and got some frog legs (soooooooo expensive, 4 pair of legs was $6.50)...I have several who just had a birthday, so for their birthday special dinner, they got froglegs. :-) I also every once in a while will buy fish, when its cheap, usually either catfish nuggets, which I like to feed still frozen, it keeps them busy for a while so I can clean house, or whatever, or the canned mackeral, which they go CRAZY for, but I hate cuz it stinks up the whole house just to open the can.
LOL Every once in a while I go nuts and may spend $30 in one trip when I find special stuff on sale..but its more of a stocking up, when I find great deals on good stuff, (like super meaty pork neck bones already cut into perfect size pieces for my kids at 68 cents/pound) its not an everyday thing to spend alot of $$ to feed them. It averages out. I am lucky in having little bitty guys who dont have to eat 4 pounds a day each, all but my one big guy do very well on just a few ounces a day. :-) I also get all the kidney and liver and occassionally pork hearts I need for free..another wonderful bonus. :-) Keeps my kids and my wallet smiling!!

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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12. Feeding Hope
Posted by: "Diane Atkinson" hopenfox@yahoo.com.au hopenfox
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:28 pm ((PST))

Hi, I've been raw feeding for around 6 1/2 years now. I now have
three dogs and three ferrets all eating a raw prey model diet.

I wrote about 'Hope's Story' on Raw Chat in the hope of getting some
suggestions on how others would feed their dog if they had a dog in
Hope's position. I thought I would post here too for more viewings.

A short outline - Hope had an accident where she required surgery on
her oesophagus, that has left scarring, causing a stiffness and
narrowing at the damaged point of her oesophagus. This means she can
never be fed whole bones again, because of the increased chance of a
bone getting stuck. (Hope and I can't afford another surgery!)

Her current diet (7 months after surgery) consists of whole in shell
raw eggs every couple of days, a meaty bone most days, given under
strict supervision, removed as soon as the meat is gone, raw meat
chunks and chicken necks held by me so portions are controlled, and
raw mince (ground) fed by spoon. She gets ground rabbit, kangaroo,
beef, turkey, fish and lamb and also ground bone-in chicken for the
bone. And also some liver, kidney, etc. every now and then.

Her average daily meal is a Kong in the morning stuffed with raw
(sometimes frozen) mince and in the afternoon, a meaty bone to
pull/gnaw the meat off, followed by enough mince to fill her up.

Another daily plan might be a whole raw egg in the morning, and in the
afternoon chicken necks and chunks of meat held by me while she gnaws
off portions.

Does this sound okay? Would you do anything differently?

Thanks,

~ Diane & Hope ~

Messages in this topic (1)
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13a. Re: Getting over intimidation (was Portion sizes)
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:39 pm ((PST))

> Well, I do think I'm going to cut my losses on this one. But in the
> big picture I'd still like to get her onto at least occasional
feasts.
> For one, she has bad teeth (enamel hypoplasia from a puppyhood fever)
> and I think a real good gnaw can only be good for her. For another,
> she's a skinny thing but if for example I give her two one pound
> chicken quarters, she'll eat the first and stash the second. My hope
> would be if I gave her a 2.5 pound hunk of meat, she'd eat her fill.
>
> Thanks for letting me know we're not alone in shunning the Big
Kill! :D
>
> -Alison and Mieke
>

If she is stashing oone for later I would take it to mean she wants
two meals or at least try it to see if she'll eat all her daily ration
that way. I'm lucky and my dogs eat in one meal each day. I tried
giving smaller meals because of their age but I let them eat til they
are done and thats it they don't want more til the next day.

Kathy in MO

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14. How much protein?
Posted by: "gypsyjazmine" GYPSY_JAZMINE@MSN.COM gypsyjazmine
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:41 pm ((PST))

Messages in this topic (1)
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15a. Re: Question about "sawdust" scraps from butchers
Posted by: "A." ols@charter.net cesare.1920
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:42 pm ((PST))

> Since you have
> spoken to a processor, is there any chance that you can get the trim
> from meat or the heads or the legs or the ribs? Will they let you
> surf through the barrels yourself so you can take what you want?
KathyM

***Yes he will. This was just my first time there and he asked what I
wanted and I wasn't sure so I said whatever. He also gave me some bags
of meat & fat leftovers.

I will just give a little of the sawdust at each meal to get rid of it-
you don't think that will hurt will it?

~Amanda

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16. poop discussion
Posted by: "rolypolyloly" einafets83@gmail.com rolypolyloly
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:42 pm ((PST))

Messages in this topic (1)
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17. Ooops...My intro!
Posted by: "gypsyjazmine" GYPSY_JAZMINE@MSN.COM gypsyjazmine
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:43 pm ((PST))

I have been lurking & reading here & posted a question earlier this
evening & then realized that I don't think I ever posted an intro...Sorry!
My name is Michelle & I live in Iowa...I have been slowly but surely
switching my 4 Great Pyrenees dogs to RAW for some time now & am also
interested in feeding RAW to my 9 cats...One of whom has an auto
immune problem & I am interested in seeing if RAW will help him.
We would probably be on RAW 100% by now but we moved across the state
to a completely unfamiliar & rural area & I am finding my
"connections" here still....Plus I lost a couple of months due to an
illness I was hospitalized for.
I am getting my strength & focus back & am, once again, working
towards 100% RAW for my dogs & getting my cats started on RAW.
I am glad I am here as I can see it is a group of very RAW savvy people!
Peaceful paths to all!
Michelle
Samsong Great Pyrenees
Iowa

Messages in this topic (1)
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