[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12467

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: How much protein?
From: costrowski75
1b. Re: How much protein?
From: Sandee Lee
1c. Re: How much protein?
From: windmilldairy
1d. Re: How much protein?
From: Bumble1994@aol.com
1e. Re: How much protein?
From: gypsyjazmine

2a. Re: My first post:: an intro and a ?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

3a. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: costrowski75
3b. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: Sandee Lee
3c. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: Casey Post
3d. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: poop discussion
From: Chia
4b. poop discussion
From: Erika
4c. Re: poop discussion
From: homesforallpets

5a. Re: Portion size for Mastiffs
From: Morledzep@aol.com
5b. Portion size for Mastiffs
From: A.

6a. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
From: Elizabeth
6b. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Question about "sawdust" scraps from butchers
From: katkellm

8a. Re: Feeding raw egg to new puppy
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: woohoo great buy found
From: homesforallpets

10. Tip to those with tight budgets
From: homesforallpets

11a. Re: I got TONS of free meat!!
From: homesforallpets

12a. Re: Getting over intimidation (was Portion sizes)
From: costrowski75

13a. Re: Honey?
From: costrowski75

14a. Re: Varying views
From: costrowski75

Messages
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1a. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:49 pm ((PST))

"gypsyjazmine" <GYPSY_JAZMINE@...> wrote:
>> I have an x-large breed & am getting further into RAW feeding & am
> interested in the % of protein when feeding RAW.
*****
A XL breed dog needs the exact amount of protein meat contains. No
matter what meat, the amount of protein it has is the right amount.
There is no worry.

Check out the USDA nutrition database. Pick a meat, fill in the blanks
as requested, get your answer. You'll find the range of protein in
various meats does not vary substantially. Figure off hand that meat
is about 2/3 water.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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1b. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:56 pm ((PST))

Hi Michelle,

It's not protein you need to be concerned about when growing a large breed
puppy. In fact, you just about cannot feed too much protein.

But, you are right, raw isn't just protein....it's meat and bone and lots of
moisture, gristle, ligaments, etc. Here are some of the stats....

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
100g beef chuck
19% protein/62% water

100g pork shoulder
17% protein/62% water

100g chicken
18% protein/66% water

100g domestic rabbit
20% protein/73% water

BTW, Great Pyrenees isn't an x-large breed...they are tiny! :)) Just
kidding!!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "gypsyjazmine" <GYPSY_JAZMINE@MSN.COM>

I had someone explain to me once that feeding RAW doesn't carry as
much protein as one might think.
I have an x-large breed & am getting further into RAW feeding & am
interested in the % of protein when feeding RAW.

Messages in this topic (6)
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1c. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "windmilldairy" drwindmill@gmail.com windmilldairy
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:02 pm ((PST))

Hi Michelle
I raise Neapolitan Mastiffs and in the past Tibetan Mastiffs, and when feeding raw do not
concern yourself with the protein. Too much protein will burn out dogs and make them grow
too rapidly. Just feed meat and don't worry about it....They will be beautiful.

Pat

> I had someone explain to me once that feeding RAW doesn't carry as
> much protein as one might think.
> I have an x-large breed & am getting further into RAW feeding & am
> interested in the % of protein when feeding RAW.
> Ty in advance!
> Michelle
> Samsong Great Pyrenees
> Iowa
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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1d. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:03 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 1/6/2008 8:43:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
"gypsyjazmine" writes:

am interested in the % of protein when feeding RAW

****
Hi, Michelle,

You can go to this website, put in "raw," click on whatever meat type you
want--like "poultry," choose the specific sort of meat you want, and the first
thing on the page that comes up for that meat is how much of it is moisture.

_http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/_

(http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/)

Lynda

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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1e. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "gypsyjazmine" GYPSY_JAZMINE@MSN.COM gypsyjazmine
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:05 pm ((PST))

Ty to both who replied to my post & ty also for the helpful links!
I am not sure that I agree though that too much protein isn't a
concern for rapidly growing large breed or giant breed pups...I agree
that RAW doesn't have too much protein but in kibble or premade RAW I
feel there can be too much...Before I knew anything about RAW I fed
Samson a kibble that was too high in protein & he had horrible growing
pains to the point I was sure he must have had joint problems...When I
switched to a kibble that was lower in protein he improved greatly in
a very short time.
Are you saying that there isn't too much protein in RAW or that high
protein isn't a concern?
Ty!
Michelle
Samsong Great Pyrenees
Iowa

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Michelle,
>
> It's not protein you need to be concerned about when growing a large
breed
> puppy. In fact, you just about cannot feed too much protein.
>
> But, you are right, raw isn't just protein....it's meat and bone and
lots of
> moisture, gristle, ligaments, etc. Here are some of the stats....
>
> http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
> 100g beef chuck
> 19% protein/62% water
>
> 100g pork shoulder
> 17% protein/62% water
>
> 100g chicken
> 18% protein/66% water
>
> 100g domestic rabbit
> 20% protein/73% water
>
> BTW, Great Pyrenees isn't an x-large breed...they are tiny! :)) Just
> kidding!!
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Re: My first post:: an intro and a ?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:49 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 1/6/2008 2:56:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, oznnik@msn.com
writes:

Now for my question, I have a bag of boneless chicken breasts that is
freezer burned. It's in a solution of up to 15% of water and kosher
salt (to help prevent freezer burn....hahaha!). Can I still feed to my
dogs? Will it cause diarhea? Thank you! I appreciate all of the
information you all provide. :)

Nikki,

i would feed them to the dogs.. just add a breast to a regular chicken meal
now and then. they'll be gone in no time.

I buy those chicken breasts too, and chicken tenders with the kosher salt
solution. I buy them for fish food though.

Catherine R.

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:55 pm ((PST))

"Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
> I did however grow most of my own veggies for the dogs! Does that
make up
> for it?????
*****
Depends on how you grew them! Vegetable oneupmanship is a tough game
to play.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (17)
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3b. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:00 pm ((PST))

Well, I didn't use any chemicals and carefully chose seeds to get a good
variety. Weeded, watered and harvested with my own two little hands...and
then very carefully processed them along with all of the other required
nutrients.

Do I win????

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "costrowski75" <Chriso75@AOL.COM>

"Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
> I did however grow most of my own veggies for the dogs! Does that
make up
> for it?????
*****
Depends on how you grew them! Vegetable oneupmanship is a tough game
to play.

Messages in this topic (17)
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3c. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:06 pm ((PST))

> Do I win????

Well...I'd say it beats me if you pulped them up within minutes of
harvesting so as to get the maximum amount of *phytonutrients* (cool word!
Not helpful for canids, but oh so important sounding!) for your dogs.

Isn't it nice that we can look back and laugh at our silliness?

Casey

Messages in this topic (17)
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3d. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:12 pm ((PST))

Tammy and Bill, please take this conversation private. It's run it's
course here.
Thank you.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (17)
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4a. Re: poop discussion
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:59 pm ((PST))

Hi guys... have been feeding my girl raw for ~3 weeks now and because
she is pooping smaller, less messy poops, I haven't bothered to pick
it up out of my yard in awhile. I went out to pick it up today, and am
a little bothered by what I saw. I found large chunks of bone laying
in the yard (we feed her inside) and have no idea why it is there.
Also, some of her poop was very crumbly and grainy. I don't know why
it should be grainy. I am most worried about the mucus-like slime that
was on a lot of her poop. I had rubber gloves on, so I pulled the
slime off, and it came away from the poop in one piece. Very very
weird. She is seeing the vet tomorrow (unrelated to raw feeding-- I
think she has a tumor on the underside of her tongue) and will
probably stay the night with the vet. Hopefully, if anything is out of
the ordinary, he will notice.

#### you mean you found small pieces of undigested bone in her stool?
Or, do you mean other pieces of bones that you did not feed and it's a
mystery why they're there?

Poop, especially after a couple of days in dry air, IS crumbly and grainy,
this is half the beauty of it. Imagine the bones, going in a highly acidic
stomach. The acids 'burn' those buns into a granular slurry and the end
product is whitish sort of poop, depending what was fed of course. All
normal, no worries. This is how anal sacs get expressed divinely.

Mucous is a bit of inflammation in the intestines and it acts to cushion
and ease those stools as well. No worries and this will disappear in a few
weeks, promise.

Hope your dog's vet visit goes smooth. I would hate that and I KNOW I
would spend the night sleeping right next to my silly boy. ;-))

Chia & Ricco

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Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. poop discussion
Posted by: "Erika" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:06 pm ((PST))

Others will probalby respond with more info for you but to put it simply, yes this is all normal :)

The "slime" will go away with time unless you are feeding any dairy. When I started out I fed yogurt since I did not know any better, lots of slime. No yogurt, slime went away ;)

I pick up my yard once or twice a day so that no one steps in it. (seven dogs a poopin can fill up a yard fast even if the poop is small) RAW poop is so well digested that the poop will fall appart rapidly in the yard, especially if you have rain! The bones you are finding most likley passed though in a poop and the poop part melted away into dust before you got to it. Don't worry they are all getting passed through and in a couple of weeks your dogs digestive system will be fully consuming the bones.

Check your yard on a daily basis and you can better evaluate how yur feeding effects your dog. What goes in directly affects what comes out haha. If you notice FRESH poops that are white and crumbely this is because you are feeding to much bone and need to reduce the amount you are feeding. This will aslo cause straining and constipation. Normal poops will CHANGE to white and crumbely in about a days time and then start to fall apart.

Hope that helps. Others who know more feel free to comment ;)
Erika

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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4c. Re: poop discussion
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:06 pm ((PST))

Beware the large bones in the yard! I lost a Doxie mix to people
tossing cooked meat on bone to her. I have filed three complaints
and had two teens caught this WEEK tossing meat in my yard. Police
called to let me know their lab said it was clean but the thing is it
was COOKED! COOKED bone can KILL. Be sure the bone you find is what
you have been feeding before dismissing it.

Kathy in MO

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rolypolyloly" <einafets83@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi guys... have been feeding my girl raw for ~3 weeks now and
because
> she is pooping smaller, less messy poops, I haven't bothered to pick
> it up out of my yard in awhile. I went out to pick it up today, and
am
> a little bothered by what I saw. I found large chunks of bone laying
> in the yard (we feed her inside) and have no idea why it is there.
> Also, some of her poop was very crumbly and grainy. I don't know why
> it should be grainy. I am most worried about the mucus-like slime
that
> was on a lot of her poop. I had rubber gloves on, so I pulled the
> slime off, and it came away from the poop in one piece. Very very
> weird. She is seeing the vet tomorrow (unrelated to raw feeding-- I
> think she has a tumor on the underside of her tongue) and will
> probably stay the night with the vet. Hopefully, if anything is out
of
> the ordinary, he will notice.
> Any thoughts?
> -Stefanie
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: Portion size for Mastiffs
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:02 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 1/6/2008 11:37:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
ols@charter.net writes:

I was wondering about how many pounds you rawfeeders with Mastiffs (or
other giant breeds) are feeding a day? How old are they and how much
do they weigh too?

Amanda,

i have a few large or close to giant dogs, my big wolfdog guy weighs in at
around 150 lbs depending on the time of year. We also have another slightly
smaller wolfdog, and akitas and a great dane pup, along with a variety of other
dogs all but 2 are 80 lbs or more.

the under 100 lb dogs get 1 - 2 lbs per day, or a BIG hunk every other day.
The bigger dogs, over 100 lbs get 2 - 3 lbs per day or a BIG hunk every other
day.

Today we have lamb shoulders, beef head meat, 2 chickens and some big fish
thawing. Everybody will get at least one fish, then the bigger dogs will get
either half a chicken or one of the pieces of the lamb shoulder and my poor old
golden dude that can't eat bones much anymore will get a heaping helping of
beef head meat after he eats his fish.

Tomorrow everyone is eating turkey, i have a 23 lb turkey thawing for
tomorrow. i creatively cut it into 9 pieces. the smaller dogs get the wings and
legs, the larger dogs get thighs, and the breast get whacked into 2 or 3 pieces,
and of course, one boneless piece..

Catherine R.

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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5b. Portion size for Mastiffs
Posted by: "A." ols@charter.net cesare.1920
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:06 pm ((PST))

Some people prefer the look of a heavier more massive mastiff but
mine are sleek and slim, I keep them that way untill they are 3 then
allow them to put on more mass and have always done so. They live
longer and have much healthier joints for it. By doing this even
when I was feeding kibble my 7 year old with severe hip displasia
now still runs and jumps around with the young pups which is amazing
considering that she should be a slow senior in the average lifespan
of these dogs ;)
>
> Hope that helps,
> Erika

****Thanks for the info!! My 16 month old female (about 110-120 pds)
was getting about 2 pounds a day but it seemed like she was still so
hungry. I have upped her to about 3 pounds but she still seems like
she could eat more! She is an English Mastiff and not highly active,
probably medium energy level depending on the day. I am trying to
decide whether to add more food or not. I also want to keep her
slender for the first few years. Some think she is underweight but
the vet says she is just fine. I also worry about hip and joint
problems and believe this will help.
Does 3 pounds sound ok to you or should I let her decide the amount?
She is such a piggy I am afraid she will pork up if she gets to
choose :)

~Amanda

Messages in this topic (6)
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6a. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:02 pm ((PST))

Oh, I feed my dog fish, too. I have a difficult time finding goat for
a good deal, but if I ever find a good supplier I will throw it in the
mix as well! Same goes for elk/venison and bison. My regular supplier
just recently added elk, venison and bison to their menu, but no
prices are listed yet, so I guess I'll wait and see!

-Liz

Messages in this topic (6)
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6b. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:16 pm ((PST))

"Elizabeth" <rainsou1@...> wrote:>
> I've been considering simplifying my dog's diet to beef, pork and
> lamb. These are the 3 protein sources she does best on, as well as
> eggs. Does anyone else feed exclusively 3 sources?
*****
My guess is there are people who through circumstances wind up relying
on three protein sources and--like as not--less than three. I would
hope though that no one is setting her sights on exclusivity as a
goal. If chicken doesn't work well, by all means reduce its presence.
There's turkey to feed instead.

In fact--and this is my point--there are quite a few other animal
protein sources that one should be open to should they become
available. Goat is lovely if/when you can get it. So is venison and
duck and pheasant and of course rabbit and wild salmon. I believe it
would be akin to cutting off one's nose to spite one's face to
arbitrarily limit the menu.

I am not saying you have an obligation to feed through the dictionary.
I am merely suggesting welcoming variety when you can, and using
variety to assure you are providing adequate nutrition.

I was thinking about feeding heart more often as a muscle
> meat, too.
*****
Heart IS a muscle meat. Any heart, not only beef heart. IMO, whatever
heart meat you can get, get. Pork, lamb, beef, chicken, turkey: do
it. You're not substituting anything when you feed heart as meat.
You're just feeding heart. Which is fine.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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7a. Re: Question about "sawdust" scraps from butchers
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:03 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "A." <ols@...> wrote:

> I will just give a little of the sawdust at each meal to get rid of it-
> you don't think that will hurt will it?
>
Hi Amanda,
No, it is fine to feed. I would feed it if i had it. I just wouldn't
make it a staple of my dog's diet. If you have access to a meat
processor, you can do waaay better than sawdust. KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: Feeding raw egg to new puppy
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:03 pm ((PST))

"Bill & Jan Pace" <bija@...> wrote:
>
> I have started an 8 week old puppy (Wire Fox Terrier) on a raw diet.
<snippet>
> Can I give raw egg to the new puppy or should I wait until she is
older? If I should wait, when is a good time to introduce the egg?
*****
Age is not the issue, digestive experience is. An egg may (or may not)
cause runny poops. This doesn't mean a sick dog, just a dog that ate
more than its machinery could process. 'Twere me, I'd wait until I
knew how the pup did on raw, until the pup had gotten accustomed to
more essential food like meat, fat and bones.

OTOH, I rarely feed eggs at all, so I'm perfectly willing to shine 'em
on indefinitely. My 15 month old "pup" (where DOES the time go?) has
not had an egg yet.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: woohoo great buy found
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:05 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, gsdlvr62@... wrote:
>
> My 2 GSDs are fed mainly chicken quarters that i get cheap at
> walmart...

Alot of people keep mentioning this and I found it today! Tomorrow we
get paid and I am getting 2 bags! $4.70 for 10lbs is not bad.

Today i hit the jackpot.....My local Giant Eagle
> has pork spare ribs on sale for 99 cents a pound....i bought 20
pounds and
> would of bought more had i the money.

I know how that feels and hey, good job on the buy!

Kathy in MO

Messages in this topic (3)
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10. Tip to those with tight budgets
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:06 pm ((PST))

I found a very interesting program. Its called Angel Food Ministries
they do a monthly box deal and if you get the box you can get the
monthly specials. This month's special is 20# of chicken breasts
(don't remember if its boneless or not) for $20. This could work out
to help feed the people and the dogs! For $50 you get lots of food
for both. I believe the website is angelfoodministries.com might
be .net or .org I'm not on my computer at the moment.

Kathy in MO

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Re: I got TONS of free meat!!
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:06 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, steven muse <musesteven@...> wrote:
>
> A,
>
> Great! I'm going to try the Craigslist thing, how did you word
your request & in what section?
>
> thanks!
>
> w. va. steve
>

Be careful usiing craigslist I got TONS of emails yelling at me for
posting for meat because its a prohibited item. I kept getting
flagged too.

How did you word it? I posted I fed my dog raw and wanted any
unwanted meat including what folks were unsure were ok for people to
eat (ie too old, off odor) got raw feeders yelling at me for
attempting to poison my dogs and telling me this is not what raw
feeding is all about.

Kathy in MO

Messages in this topic (21)
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12a. Re: Getting over intimidation (was Portion sizes)
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:47 pm ((PST))

"katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
> Feeding BIFLO (big food less often) is one way to feed raw, but it
is
> by no means a requirement or a necessity or such,
*****
Right. Perhaps if I wrote OFFERING Big Food Less Often, you would
look more kindly on the concept. Whether the dog is permitted to eat
all of the "larger than to be consumed hunk of meat" or the dog is
permitted to eat a pound of the stuff, the physical result is the
same--ripping and tearing and otherwise getting involved with one's
food. (It's sort like the difference between a sit-down dinner at
the table and eating over the sink.)

There is a very short and uneventful step from ripping off one pound
of flesh and ripping off all the flesh. I suspect once one is
acccustomed to the notion of OPFFERING big food, the notion of EATING
big food is less daunting.

OTOH, if a dog is put off by sheer size, it hardly matters whether
the dog is supposed to eat but a pound of it or is supposed to eat
the whole thing: The initial approach size remains the same.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (13)
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13a. Re: Honey?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:01 pm ((PST))

Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Ladies?
> Um, whether to feed honey or not isn't really the point.
>
> Nor is the type of honey to feed.
>
> The point is, its not species appropriate.
>
> This maybe should be redirected to raw chat, no?
*****
Thank you Giselle.
You're right.

Please move the honey discussion to RawChat or take it private.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (9)
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14a. Re: Varying views
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:09 pm ((PST))

Nanette <nanettechols@...> wrote:
> When we gave our guys kibble with raw they threw it all up. That was
> the last kibble meal they ever got. We went right to raw and haven't
> looked back. We've kept the bone portions up but in week 3 are
> begining to back off for one and not for the other. Each dog is
> different and will let you know what is right. Just try something and
> see what happens. We tossed the kibble...
*****
Nanette, I think you misunderstand. I was not recommending dragging
out the move to raw food. I believe my post was pretty clear on that.
The OP wanted to know how the transition happens; I told her.
Explaining something is not necessarily endorsing it.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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