[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12463

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: raw food ordering in Canada
From: Scott Baker
1b. Re: raw food ordering in Canada
From: jordan_spiva
1c. raw food ordering in Canada
From: Lynda McLellan
1d. Re: raw food ordering in Canada
From: Doreen Barton

2a. What is considered organ meat?
From: francesdrew
2b. Re: What is considered organ meat?
From: carnesbill

3a. Re: gassy pup
From: blue eyed

4a. Re: Honey?
From: Ania Tysarczyk
4b. Re: Honey?
From: bearspicnic2000

5a. New to raw, 8mo puppy gulping
From: Darjeelingirl

6a. Pig feet?
From: Sheila0344@aol.com
6b. Re: Pig feet?
From: carnesbill
6c. Re: Pig feet?
From: katkellm

7a. Re: loose stools/really need some feedback
From: Laurie Swanson

8a. Re: Feeding Routine
From: Yasuko herron
8b. Re: Feeding Routine
From: katkellm

9a. Re: Recent Vet Visit/yeasty ears
From: Laurie Swanson

10a. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
From: blue eyed

11a. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: Sandee Lee
11b. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: carnesbill

12.1. Re: worried
From: Lynda McLellan

13a. Re: Pork ear
From: Yasuko herron

14. Hello there everyone hoping for some advice to a newby
From: persia_elvis

15. beef, pork and lamb...
From: Elizabeth

16a. Re: Portion sizes for a 40 pounder
From: katkellm

Messages
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1a. Re: raw food ordering in Canada
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 12:14 pm ((PST))

I don't know if they ship or not, but cant hurt to contact them.

http://www.totallyrawdogfood.com/

On Jan 5, 2008 1:26 PM, Tracey WAGC <wagc@sasktel.net> wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is a raw food supplier in Canada for things
> like ground tripe, trachea, tripe/organ blend, gullets, ground pancreas? If
> there isn't is there enough raw feeders in canada to warrant one, do you
> think?
>
> tracey
>

--
Scott

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Messages in this topic (6)
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1b. Re: raw food ordering in Canada
Posted by: "jordan_spiva" jordan_spiva@yahoo.com jordan_spiva
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 12:14 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Tracey WAGC <wagc@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if there is a raw food supplier in Canada for things like ground tripe,
trachea, tripe/organ blend, gullets, ground pancreas? If there isn't is there enough raw
feeders in canada to warrant one, do you think?
>
>
> Heres a good supplier. She lives in Nova Scotia.
http://www.totallyrawdogfood.com/

Jordan

Messages in this topic (6)
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1c. raw food ordering in Canada
Posted by: "Lynda McLellan" lyndam950@telus.net lyndam22
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:07 pm ((PST))

It's a big country Tracey, where are you? I know of a few food co-ops in the Calgary area. Lots of feed lots and butchering around there. I need a good one in BC.
Seems like there are hardly any butcher shops left that take a live animal, butcher and then sell the meat. These are the ones that could sell the parts.
Take care, Lynda

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1d. Re: raw food ordering in Canada
Posted by: "Doreen Barton" teddyzach1413@yahoo.ca teddyzach1413
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:07 pm ((PST))

Dear Tracey,

I think there is a need for more raw food suppliers in Canada. If more people raw fed than the cost would go down. I am finding it extremely expensive to feed my 2 dogs . Plus to try and find alternative meat its much easier in the US.

Doreen
Teddy and Zachs mum

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2a. What is considered organ meat?
Posted by: "francesdrew" francesdrew@yahoo.com francesdrew
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:45 pm ((PST))

I know that heart and gizzard are considered mucsle meats...but do they also double as
organ meat?

What other organ meats are readily available (other than liver)?

Are intestines organ meat? Tongue?

What percentage of organ meat should liver take up?

For organ meat I have been using beef liver, gizzard and hearts, whatever giblets I get in
my turkeys and I recently I bought sweetbreads, but those are hard to find.

Thanks,
Frances

Messages in this topic (2)
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2b. Re: What is considered organ meat?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:06 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "francesdrew" <francesdrew@...>
wrote:
>
> I know that heart and gizzard are considered mucsle meats...but
> do they also double as organ meat?

No

> What other organ meats are readily available (other than liver)?

Kidney, pancreas

> Are intestines organ meat?

No

> Tongue?

No

> What percentage of organ meat should liver take up?

It makes very little difference. Somewhere between half and all.

> For organ meat I have been using beef liver, gizzard and
> hearts, whatever giblets I get in my turkeys and I recently
> I bought sweetbreads, but those are hard to find.

I have a hard time finding anyhting but liver. There are kidneys in
some of the chicken quarters I feed and most all the chicken backs.
Those are about all the organs I feed other than liver.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: gassy pup
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:45 pm ((PST))

My pup was REALLY gassy on pet food and it has pretty much gone now apart from if he is fed any pork meals.

Natalie

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Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: Honey?
Posted by: "Ania Tysarczyk" AniaJRT@sbcglobal.net aniajrt
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:48 pm ((PST))

LOL....my JRT's also think they are allowed on the coffee table, but
only when mom is not around :). I don't want to even imagine a JRT
with that much sugar in him/her, but other than that, I would think
your dog would be OK. Though it's not something I would feed to a dog
on purpose. Plus JRT's usually have plenty of energy without any
help...LOL.

Ania and 2 jacks.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Debi C" <dcole6@...> wrote:
My JRT got on the coffee table, pulled the plastic lid
> off and cleaned out a bowl of it. No ill effects so far.
>
> Debi, 2 Jacks and an App
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: Honey?
Posted by: "bearspicnic2000" bearspicnic2000@yahoo.com bearspicnic2000
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:48 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Debi C" <dcole6@...> wrote:
>
> Any thoughts on honey? It is a naturally occuring substance and
bears,
> racoons and coyotes will find it and eat it. Maybe for energy and
> weight gain? My JRT got on the coffee table, pulled the plastic lid
> off and cleaned out a bowl of it. No ill effects so far.
>
> Debi, 2 Jacks and an App
>
Hiya,
I give my Lab Active manuka honey for upset tummies. No harm done and
she thinks it is a treat! It is used world wild in dogs and humans for
the treatment of stomach ulcers and stomach upsets. I have had
tremnendous results with my lab. Good luck. Kerry

Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. New to raw, 8mo puppy gulping
Posted by: "Darjeelingirl" darjeelingirl@comcast.net zoookeeeper
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:48 pm ((PST))

>>>Is there anything else I can do to make gulping less likely and to
>>>get through the bunch of chicken I cut up that I don't want to waste?

I'm a newbie and had the same issue - the answer is, give it to him frozen!
:-) It works great. You can also grind up (or just ball up) the itty bitty
pieces and form them into softball-sized balls and freeze them. Give those
frozen. Sherlock loves his burgerballs!

Patsy and the Rawbies

Sherlock Bones August 2007 beagle

Cuthbert June 1998 yellow tabby

Snickers August 2003 tortoiseshell long hair

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6a. Pig feet?
Posted by: "Sheila0344@aol.com" Sheila0344@aol.com s_mayo2002
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:48 pm ((PST))

My local super walmart sometimes has pig feet. Is this a good food for a
meal one day a week?
Sheila

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

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Messages in this topic (6)
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6b. Re: Pig feet?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:07 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sheila0344@... wrote:
>
> My local super walmart sometimes has pig feet. Is this a good
> food for a meal one day a week?

I consider them more of a chew toy than food.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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6c. Re: Pig feet?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:08 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sheila0344@... wrote:
> My local super walmart sometimes has pig feet. Is this a good food
for a
> meal one day a week?

Hi Sheila,
Pig feet are a great chew, keep em busy thing, but since they don't
have much meat on them, i either feed them as a side with a hunk of
boneless meat or as a snack type thing. KathyM

Messages in this topic (6)
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7a. Re: loose stools/really need some feedback
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:48 pm ((PST))

Hi Marge,

Was there a time when Foxy had more solid stools, and if so, what were
you feeding then? It could be too much food, too much new food, too
much fatty food, too many different foods at one meal (incl. the canned
salmon)... And/or he may just need more bone. Sometimes stress can
also be involved--I know with the holidays many people have stress,
houseguests, disrupted routines, etc.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "marge" <marge_moriarty17551@...>
wrote:
>
> I am into 1+ months of raw feeding my two mini poodles.
> Foxy seems to have very soupy stools and seems to go frequently.

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: Feeding Routine
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:48 pm ((PST))

>Most raw food will not be eaten from a bowl!

I agrree with Sandee. My dog Corgi never eat food from bowl except raw Egg. All other stuff are directly placed on shower curtain that I use as feeding mat.

It is big enough for her to carry food around wherever she wants to lay down,pawing on it andstripping or just siomply laying like superman style with leg all out,relaxing gnawing bones after stripping meat off the bone.

Directly placing food on mat is one advantage for human side; no washing bowl required;one less washing.

I am planning to feed big meal tonight and,menu is oxtail.I am sure she will be tiring after all those tackling excersize tonight and would sleep deep.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (6)
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8b. Re: Feeding Routine
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:08 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "scottginapeckford"
<scottginapeckford@...> wrote:
>> We live in Canada and often the outside temps is deep freezing
> cold. We are finding that eating raw inside is very messy.

Hi Scott,
I live in the country about 2 hours from Chicago. The Windy City has
been living up to its name recently with wind chills of 15 below, and
my dogs still eat outside. Not that you have too, but its ok if they
eat outside in the cold. KathyM

Messages in this topic (6)
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9a. Re: Recent Vet Visit/yeasty ears
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:49 pm ((PST))

I can't speak to the injection or the acidophilus. Can't see how
yogurt could help--I just believe nothing is meant to digest any kind
of milk or dairy beyond weaning. If I give my dogs cheese or ice
cream they get bad gas.

My dog had chronic yeasty ears for years when I was feeding ground
raw meat with veggies. When I switched to prey model and removed the
veggies, his ears finally cleared up. He is still sensitive to
grains/starches/veggies. I don't know if greens only would be a
problem as I usually added some other stuff, too--carrots, cucumbers,
etc.

There are other factors, too. You might want to search the archives
here an on rawchat for "ears" or "yeast." We have been discussing
this over on rawchat recently.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "thebestformyboys" <llb6984@...>
wrote:
>
> Also is there anything I can do with Logan's diet to inhibit the
growth
> of yeast?
>
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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10a. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 1:49 pm ((PST))

When I fed my dog kibble his saliva brought me out in bumps and a really itchy, stingy hot rash, since feeding him raw meat and bones this has almost gone, when it does happen (rarely) he has usually had commercial training treats, chew...
I now try to stick mainly to natural treats such as dried liver, pigs ears, tripe sticks....

Natalie

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Messages in this topic (14)
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11a. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 2:08 pm ((PST))

Laurie,

Carbohydrates feed yeast, so no yogurt...besides, it will have no probiotic
benefit in a carnivore's system. If you need probiotics, best to stick with
a commercial product which should contain several bacteria rather than just
acidophilus.

It isn't unusual for holistic vets to recommend veggies...I just wonder what
they think is available only in veggies that can't be found in their species
appropriate foods???? While green veggies may not present a problem in a
yeasty dog, anything with sugar, starches...any carbs...are going to be
problematic.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "thebestformyboys" <llb6984@comcast.net>

We
discussed yogurt. I had been feeding yogurt but did seem to help that
much, and I really don't want to have to buy that unless necessary.
Other med was Thymex dietary supplement (bovine thymus cytosol
extract). She said by the time the bottles were gone his ears should be
looking pretty good. And I may or may not have to continue with a
probiotic with this dog due to the hot humid climate we live in in
Florida, and his floppy ears that stay moist are a great place for
yeast to florish. So....

My question: She almost insists after hearing what we feed (she is 100%
pro raw--tries to convert all patients to raw) that we add Green Leafy
Veggies! She kinda seems pro veggie for all veggies ,but when I balked
at veggies (not so much green leafy but other veggies) she insists
they "NEED" what they will get out of green leafy veggies. I would like
the experience of those on this list and their thoughts on this.

Messages in this topic (4)
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11b. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:06 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "thebestformyboys" <llb6984@...>
wrote:
>
> I'd found this 100 % holistic vet 1 hr. 15 min. away from us.

There are no requirements for a vet to call herself "holistic". Any
vet can call themselves such. The word "holistic" in this context
means nothing.

> Gave me two things to give him: iFlora
> acidophilus. Said he had to have this to get yeast under control.

She's full of it. Acidophilus is a probiotic. It supposedly aids
digestion and has no connecton to yeast infection in the ears. I
have serious doubts about it having any effect on dogs at all.

> We discussed yogurt. I had been feeding yogurt but did seem to
> help that much, and I really don't want to have to buy that
> unless necessary.

Yogurt does not have the effects on dogs that it does on humans.
It's a useless item to give to dogs.

> Other med was Thymex dietary supplement (bovine thymus cytosol
> extract). She said by the time the bottles were gone his
> ears should be looking pretty good.

I don't know anything about Thymex and can't comment on it.

> And I may or may not have to continue with a
> probiotic with this dog due to the hot humid climate we live in in
> Florida, and his floppy ears that stay moist are a great place for
> yeast to florish. So....

I agree with her that diet has nothing to do with your dogs
problems. I don't know why she is prescribing probiotics when she
admits that its humdity caused. OH! Yes I do. I bet you bought
the probiotics from her. Thats why she recommended them.

> but when I balked
> at veggies (not so much green leafy but other veggies) she insists
> they "NEED" what they will get out of green leafy veggies.

She's full of it again. :) There are no requirements in any veggie
that a dog needs for anything. IF there were, a dog would be able
to eat and digest them on their own and we know that doesn't happen.

> Also is there anything I can do with Logan's diet to inhibit
> the growth of yeast?

A few drops of alcohol or peroxide in each ear a few times a week
particularly just after swimming in water.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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12.1. Re: worried
Posted by: "Lynda McLellan" lyndam950@telus.net lyndam22
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:06 pm ((PST))

You might let your husband go out and poke at the poop and find small pieces of softened bone left and not much else. : ) Lynda

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13a. Re: Pork ear
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:07 pm ((PST))

>When i have puppies i find an asian grocery store and get a pig face mask for the pup to
chew, but that is purely for chewing and keeping the pup busy, not a meal, and
not for nutritional value.

Hi,Catherine. I have never heard of pig face mask...what isit like?? I cannot imagine what it is like.

When I started feeding pork to palette on round one,I have gave a pig ear. She was more like playing with it liketossing into air and catch it,rather than actual eating.Shedidate andfinish it off but not like real engaging to eat. It was along with real pork meat though.

So,I was thinking if the ear is good for joint aswell,I feed more frequent but,I guess it is not much of help from your understanding point of view??

I probably then rely on chicken feet or treachea etc..

thank you for response.

yassy

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14. Hello there everyone hoping for some advice to a newby
Posted by: "persia_elvis" persia_elvis@yahoo.co.uk persia_elvis
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:07 pm ((PST))

Well first all hello everyone not sure we're everyone is but I'm in
Leeds, UK and have one female Lab (5yrs) and one male rottie (13mths).

I've started on the raw diet, bit by bit, I've done my homework and
read books but no doubt can still learn alot.

Anyway i have problems with my two eating chicken wings, they will not
touch raw chicken at all, I've tried cutting breast up into little
peices to get them started but they won't touch it. When i tried the
wings they just looked at me as if i was mad. The diet was going so
well until i hit this stumbling block.

Can anyone advise me how to get them to eat the wings or is there
something else i can feed them? They love bones including ribs but
just not the wings, can't find any necks anywhere as i've read these
are a good starting point.

Many thanks

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15. beef, pork and lamb...
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:07 pm ((PST))

I've been considering simplifying my dog's diet to beef, pork and
lamb. These are the 3 protein sources she does best on, as well as
eggs. Does anyone else feed exclusively 3 sources? Are these 3 sources
good enough? I was thinking about feeding heart more often as a muscle
meat, too. My dog doesn't do well on poultry, and the other 3 options
I can still buy for cheap. Heart is also cheaper and leaner than the
muscle meats I've been buying, too. So would there be a problem if I
just substituted heart as a muscle meat?

-Liz

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16a. Re: Portion sizes for a 40 pounder
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:08 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "k9_smiley" <k9_smiley@...> wrote:

> For that matter, how does one start introducing a dog to the concept
> of Big Meals, without starving her into desperation?

Hi Alison,
The best way to start on big meals is to, for the sake of math we'll
use 1 pound, feed a heavy pound on one day followed by a
proportionately lighter pound the next. Gradually feed more one day
and less the next. Feed at random times, if possible. Every now and
again throw in a regular size meal. As long as you don't get loose
stools, keep upping the amount until you are feeding 2lbs one day and
resting the next. Your dog should now be prepared for the big feast.
To me, that means a bigger size hunk of something, not lots of little
pieces, that you are fairly certain your dog won't finish. Let her
eat till she stops eating. I am sorry but i am not sure what you mean
by starve into desperation. Does your dog like pork? Is this the
first thing that you offered her that was big or did it have skin on
it? If you meant that she didn't eat as much as you expected her to,
that is ok, too. What is a lot of food for my jindo, is not a lot of
food for me lab. They both eat till they are full, but my lab, though
she weighs less, eats more at the initial presentation of a big meal
than my jindo dog does. My aussie/bc eats about as much as my jindo
in proportion to her size. Even then, what is big also varies from
meal to meal regardless of the dog. KathyM

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