[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12454

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Refusal
From: Sarah
1b. Re: Refusal
From: Laurie Swanson
1c. Re: Refusal
From: Sandee Lee

2a. Re: Switching to raw for older dogs
From: rosey031801
2b. Re: Switching to raw for older dogs
From: Sandee Lee

3. Dogs eating after each other a problem or concern ???
From: rosey031801

4a. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
From: homesforallpets
4b. anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
From: cypressbunny
4c. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
From: jjareski
4d. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
From: ychinook

5a. Re: Starting raw with my boys
From: godkrittersnkids
5b. Re: Starting raw with my boys
From: godkrittersnkids

6. avoiding choking or inhaling small pieces was Hello & Intro
From: Darjeelingirl

7a. bones included?
From: zooper50
7b. Re: bones included?
From: Laurie Swanson
7c. Re: bones included?
From: Andrea
7d. Re: bones included?
From: Tina Berry

8a. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
From: Debbie
8b. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
From: divasdesignerstore
8c. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
From: ekendahl

9a. Re: Feeding Indoors? I'm a Newbie
From: homesforallpets
9b. Re: Feeding Indoors? I'm a Newbie
From: jaygaughan

10a. Re: RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
From: Sandee Lee

11a. Re: All poultry?
From: jaygaughan

12. Request - coconut - how to open
From: Joyloulin@aol.com

Messages
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1a. Refusal
Posted by: "Sarah" shadyburger10@sbcglobal.net shadyburger10
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 9:58 am ((PST))

I've been on the list for a long time, but just now am making the
switch. I tried once before but household circumstances wouldn't
allow me to continue.

Two older dogs are just fine. They love it. My 11 month old female
Matiff is now going on over 48 hrs refusal. Me being a trainer, I
know a healthy dog (that she is) will not starve itself. When
switching from "free feeding" to a feeding schedule w/ my Akita, he
went on strike for 4 complete days. That was at 5 years old though.

She's hungry, I know she is. Being a puppy, she needs these
calories. How long do I wait? As long as it takes? I'm sure those
are rhetorical questions, I guess I'm just seeking reassurance or
some suggestions.

Everybody's doing poultry right now to start, I've got some rabbit I
can offer her too. I really wanted to keep them on the same feeding
schedule though.

*sigh

Sarah Burger
Dayton, OH

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: Refusal
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:35 am ((PST))

Hi Sarah,

In what form are you feeding the chicken (what parts? straight from
the frig?)? Have you tried warming it up a little in some warm water
(in a baggie)? Ribboning the meat? Cutting up a few pieces of
boneless meat? Handing her a bite or two to make sure she has the
idea? Topping with a little parmesan cheese or something?

She may be confused about whether this is food, or not know how to
approach it. Where are you feeding? Asking just in case you're
putting something in a bowl that really needs room to use paws, etc.
and should be fed on a towel or in a crate or something.

Or she just may not be excited about her new food and is hoping
you'll cave and bring back the old stuff. If that's the case, I'd
tough it out with her (meaning, feed the chicken, but try different
ways of presenting it).

She's not getting any other food or treats at all, is she? If not, I
imagine she'll eat in the next day or two. If so, she may not be
getting hungry enough, or she might hope she'll get more of that.

You may want to search the archives for picky eaters, etc.

Good luck,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah" <shadyburger10@...> wrote:

> She's hungry, I know she is. Being a puppy, she needs these
> calories. How long do I wait? As long as it takes? I'm sure those
> are rhetorical questions, I guess I'm just seeking reassurance or
> some suggestions.

Messages in this topic (3)
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1c. Re: Refusal
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 11:16 am ((PST))

Sarah,

A few tricks of the trade <g>....warm the food, slice into it in a few
spots, sprinkle with Parmesan. Chicken is quite bland compared to kibble
and some dogs just need it spiced up a bit! If you have kibble in the house
get rid of it...the smell is powerful and will cause some dogs to "hold
out", hoping for all those carbs!!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Sarah" <shadyburger10@sbcglobal.net>

Two older dogs are just fine. They love it. My 11 month old female
Matiff is now going on over 48 hrs refusal. Me being a trainer, I
know a healthy dog (that she is) will not starve itself. When
switching from "free feeding" to a feeding schedule w/ my Akita, he
went on strike for 4 complete days. That was at 5 years old though.

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Switching to raw for older dogs
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:04 am ((PST))

I switched my old dog , a ten plus year old border mix. His biggest
problem was he didn't want it at first. After he got used to not
getting anything else he did fine. No stomach upset at all. Now I am
switching an 18 year old beagle as we speak. He had a problem with
diarrhea on kibble. No diarrhea now. Chicken for two weeks and he's
great! Now I am going to try some variety a little at a time.
good luck!
Cheryl

Messages in this topic (9)
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2b. Re: Switching to raw for older dogs
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 11:35 am ((PST))

Hi Melissa,

That site is typical unfounded nonsense. Facts can be found in the
rawfeeding myths and by hanging around here where there are 10,000 members
feeding countless numbers of dogs without all of those issues. If
rawfeeding were that dangerous and that difficult I doubt many of us would
be continuing on with this. I have only been feeding raw for 8 years and on
this list for 5, but I have never heard of one documented case of torn
intestines.

Feeding raw is so simple, a child could do it! :) Seriously, just look at
the natural diet of a carnivore and feed accordingly. All of the ratios
will be perfectly "balanced" when you fed tons of eat, a little edible bone
and organs.

Here are just a few of the issues that will be resolved when sticking with
facts....

Dogs are carnivores...classification is based on anatomy and physiology....
http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html

Dogs are the same species as the grey wolf...this is based on DNA....
http://rawfed.com/myths/changed.html

From wolf studies we know beyond a shadow of a doubt what their diet
includes...
http://rawfed.com/myths/stomachcontents.html

BTW, grainless kibble is no better than any other kibble. It is still
processed, inappropriate and filled with starchy, sugar laden carbohydrates,
so don't feel bad that it's too expensive for you. It would not provide any
benefit for your dog with skin problems.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "certaintragedies" <inaudibly@gmail.com>
I'm in a bit of a dilemma now though. I can't decide whether to make
the change or not. I did some more research and found some information
on how a domesticated dog is vastly different from a wolf and so their
dietary needs are different:

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/barf-myth.html

And the other thing I also discovered was the danger of torn
intestines because of bones, as well as problems with phosphorus and
calcium levels and bacteria because of imbalanced diets. It seems like
feeding raw is really an art that you have to perfect and I don't know
if I want to take that risk with my girls.

Messages in this topic (9)
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3. Dogs eating after each other a problem or concern ???
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:04 am ((PST))

I have a question for those of you with LOTS of experience in this. I
have an old (18) beagle making the switch. He sometimes leaves some
left overs in the yard. My ten year old dog may eat the same peice he
ate on. Is there anything I should worry about with this. The beagle is
probably close to going to heaven so he doesn't go to the vet anymore.
His eyes have a discharge and his teeth are awful, he may have an
infection but I don't think it would be contagious. What do you think?
Should I go out and pick up the leftovers...I don't want to have to do
that. Any advice?
Thanks,
Cheryl

PS My dog is very healthy!

Messages in this topic (1)
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4a. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:15 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "spricketysprock"
<jess.hamway@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone come across this website?
> http://www.secondchanceranch.com/training/raw_meat/index.html
>
> Just curious what your thoughts are...
>
> Jess & Toby
>
I notice they do not have a place to comment. I could only stomach
reading the first page and wanted to scream! Dogs fed cooked foods
and kibble do worse than the few who may die due to swallowing a neck
or portion of a back whole. Splintering bones? I've seen my terrier
shred chicken bones but technically this isn't splintering right? I
pickup a piece of one such bone and it bent and did not cut my hand.
Believe me I tried to get it to, not out of morbid want to do harm to
myself but to see if it would hurt me. I mean it hurt but did not
pierce my skin. In fact it broke in half. Please note, I do not
recomend anyone do that lol! From what I understand the bone dangers
are ONLY those of cooked or smaller ones fed to gulpers?

I think I'll try to avoid anti-raw sites. My dogs ahve been eating
raw about a week now and LOVE it! I have started feeding seperate so
that Holly gets appropriately sized pieces and Angel doesn't gulp
them (she gulpe twice so only big for her now) and to be sure one is
not eating more than the other.

Kathy in MO

Messages in this topic (16)
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4b. anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:27 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle G. Heimendinger"
<michelle@...> wrote:
>
> Do most folks have any idea of what chemicals are being fed to feedlot
> animals ?

*** Even the people feeding the feedlot animals have little idea what
chemicals are in there. Only Archer Daniels Midland knows for sure! I
try to avoid factory farmed meats as much as possible, not only because
of the quality of the meat, but also because the inhumane practices
that go on. However, the lowest quality raw meats are still superior to
the highest "quality" kibble, so the affordability of grassfed and/or
organic meat should not be factor in the decision to switch to raw.
Switching to raw is always a good decision.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (16)
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4c. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
Posted by: "jjareski" jjareski1@hotmail.com jjareski
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 1:03 pm ((PST))

I leave the chicken mostly frozen and found that my dogs chew the
food rather then wolfing it down. They take 5 10 min to eat when
it's raw and a good 20 to 30 min when its frozen.

Josie Sadie & Gizmo

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "homesforallpets"
<homesforallpets@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "spricketysprock"
> <jess.hamway@> wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone come across this website?
> > http://www.secondchanceranch.com/training/raw_meat/index.html
> >
> > Just curious what your thoughts are...
> >
> > Jess & Toby
> >
> I notice they do not have a place to comment. I could only stomach
> reading the first page and wanted to scream! Dogs fed cooked foods
> and kibble do worse than the few who may die due to swallowing a
neck
> or portion of a back whole. Splintering bones? I've seen my
terrier
> shred chicken bones but technically this isn't splintering right?
I
> pickup a piece of one such bone and it bent and did not cut my
hand.
> Believe me I tried to get it to, not out of morbid want to do harm
to
> myself but to see if it would hurt me. I mean it hurt but did not
> pierce my skin. In fact it broke in half. Please note, I do not
> recomend anyone do that lol! From what I understand the bone
dangers
> are ONLY those of cooked or smaller ones fed to gulpers?
>
> I think I'll try to avoid anti-raw sites. My dogs ahve been eating
> raw about a week now and LOVE it! I have started feeding seperate
so
> that Holly gets appropriately sized pieces and Angel doesn't gulp
> them (she gulpe twice so only big for her now) and to be sure one
is
> not eating more than the other.
>
> Kathy in MO
>

Messages in this topic (16)
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4d. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
Posted by: "ychinook" chinook.nr@tds.net ychinook
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 1:04 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "homesforallpets"
<homesforallpets@...> wrote:

> I notice they do not have a place to comment.

Oh they do have a Contact Us for email. I usually send each such site
that comes across my radar a little note (my perversion). In this
case I sent the following:
--------------------------------------------
Someone mentioned your anti-raw site as an argument and it was so
amateurish, opinionated and obviously misleading that a child could
rebut it. I guess you're aiming for a like audience - extremely naive
:-)

I think you would be infuriated by (just to name a few):

* the studies of Dr.Robert K Wayne and subsequent verifications

http://www.eeb.ucla.edu/indivfaculty.php?FacultyKey=501

* L. David Mech - e.g. The Way of the Wolf

http://www.davemech.org/

* Robert H. Busch - e.g. The Wolf Almanac

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?z=y&ATH=Robert+H.+Busch

* Bruce Fogle, D.V.M. - The Encyclopedia of the Dog

http://www.brucefogle.com/

* talking to some old country vets - i.e. before the current wave of
wallet-vets

It might also help to study Metabolic Physiology.

Of course if you wish to persist in creating misinformation then there
is a whole field of study that might help. You could begin with the
following:

* Stauber & Rampton, "Trust Us, We're Experts", Tarcher/Putnam 2001

* Ewen, Stuart PR!: A Social History of Spin 1996 ISBN: 0-465-06168-0
Published by Basic Books, A Division of Harper Collins

* Tye, Larry The Father of Spin: Edward L. Bernays and the Birth of
Public Relations Crown Publishers, Inc. 2001

* King, R Medical journals rarely disclose researchers' ties
Wall St. Journal, 2 Feb 99.

* Engler, R et al. Misrepresentation and Responsibility in Medical
Research
New England Journal of Medicine v 317 p 1383 26 Nov 1987

Hoping this finds you and yours "As Fit As A Butcher's Dog"
Lee, Karen, Buddy Bear and Holly

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes" --
Dr. Tom Lonsdale in his book "Raw Meaty Bones: Promote Health"

P.S I attached a little piece I wrote (pdf file) that you might enjoy.
----------------------------------------

Hoping this finds you and yours "As Fit As A Butcher's Dog"
Lee, Karen, Buddy Bear and Holly

Messages in this topic (16)
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5a. Re: Starting raw with my boys
Posted by: "godkrittersnkids" godkrittersnkids@yahoo.com godkrittersnkids
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:15 am ((PST))

Thank you for your sage advice. I'm so looking forward to improving my
furbabies' quality of life!

Linda, Jackie, Lonnie & Annie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
> I think it was more because you were mixing kibble and meat. No, it
> is usually not a problem. That doesn't mean your dogs will never
pass
> gas, just that it shouldn't be any more than now and probably less.
>
> Bill Carnes

Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: Starting raw with my boys
Posted by: "godkrittersnkids" godkrittersnkids@yahoo.com godkrittersnkids
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:15 am ((PST))

*** Mod Note: please remember to sign your posts ***

LOL! Thanks for the warning...even tho' it's 'WAY cold here, it's
supposed to warm up this weekend...a little 'fresh air' in the house
during the winter might actually be refreshing!!

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Amy Tracy" <amypatriciatracy@...>
wrote:
>
> > IMO it wouldn't hurt to brace yourself. ... She had this gas
> even as she was loving her diet and pooing normally. Hey, consider it
> a blessing if it doesn't happen, but it can't hurt to loosen those
> storm windows just in case. Best of luck.
> Amy (and Rosie)
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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6. avoiding choking or inhaling small pieces was Hello & Intro
Posted by: "Darjeelingirl" darjeelingirl@comcast.net zoookeeeper
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:28 am ((PST))

* >>if I get a good deal on say, boneless red meat, chicken, pork loin,
>> do I cut it in cubes or let them suck it down?

>If I get a great deal on boneless meat that is choke-tastic size, I
>freeze a bunch together and feed it as a semi-frozen chunk. Chopping
>up meat only seems to encourage my little vaccuums.

Since I have to currently grind up chicken for my transitioning cats, I
accidentally discovered that if I grind up pieces of meat that are too small
for the dog to chew <grin> and shape the meat into big softball sized balls
and freeze them, it works great. I give Sherlock (Sherlock Bones, to be
exact :-)) a frozen ball for dinner, and voila! Serious gnawing ensues.

Patsy, a newbie too

Sherlock Bones 4.5 mos beagle

Cuthbert 10 year tabby, Snickers 5 year Maine Coon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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7a. bones included?
Posted by: "zooper50" zooper1@juno.com zooper50
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:28 am ((PST))

Hi, I'm new here but have been reading about feeding raw for a long
time and have also been feeding NV raw.

My question is this - when weighing the amount of food they get for a
meal, is the bone weight included or is that just the meat? I have just
started feeding raw with bone so I don't want to starve my dogs! I am
weighing it now until I get better at gauging how much each of them
eats per meal.

I have been giving one meal of primarily meat and the second meal of
meaty bones.

I have 5 toy breed dogs.

Thanks!
Teri

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: bones included?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:38 am ((PST))

Teri,

The edible bone weight is included. (Whatever is eaten is included.)
So, if a bone isn't edible, subtract the weight of it. Of course, it's
pretty impractical to calculate all of that all the time, but it
sometimes helps in the beginning. If I'm curious, I will look at the
weight of something before I feed it, and then weigh any
leftover/inedible bone, and subtract it--to see what my dog actually
ate. Then I can start visualizing things better.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "zooper50" <zooper1@...> wrote:

> My question is this - when weighing the amount of food they get for a
> meal, is the bone weight included or is that just the meat?

Messages in this topic (4)
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7c. Re: bones included?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:38 am ((PST))

Include the weight of the edible bone, but not stuff that they won't
consume. When I give my dogs a slab of beef ribs I consider it a light
meal since they leave all the bones after they have been picked clean.
I know that at first it helps to weigh the food but don't get too
caught up in the numbers. Tiny dogs often eat more than 2-3% of their
ideal adult weight.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "zooper50" <zooper1@...> wrote:

> My question is this - when weighing the amount of food they get for
> a meal, is the bone weight included or is that just the meat?

Messages in this topic (4)
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7d. Re: bones included?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:41 am ((PST))

"when weighing the amount of food they get for a meal, is the bone weight
included or is that just the meat? "

I include the bone.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
Posted by: "Debbie" alabamdeb2@yahoo.com alabamdeb2
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:37 am ((PST))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.

I don't have any suggestions, being a "newbie" myself, but I can sure
sympathize with you! I have an english bulldog that does the same
thing. I swear she's part pig. I almost feel bad giving her pork,
because it's like I'm making her be a lil' cannibal. She tries her
best to be quick enough to grab anything that hits the floor in the
kitchen. Last time it was small piece of cardboard and yes, she ate
that before Mom could wrestle it away. Always "starving". And this is
a dog that I used to have to BEG to eat when she was on crap-in-a-bag.

Messages in this topic (10)
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8b. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
Posted by: "divasdesignerstore" divasdesignerstore@yahoo.com divasdesignerstore
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:40 am ((PST))

EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.

Since my pugs are severly over weight from kibble food. The "right"
amount of real--bio-available--food does not fill them up so they go
looking for other things to eat. Such as non-edible items. Socks,
underwear, cat poop, rabbit poop, etc.
The amount of food I have been feeding them never seems to fill them
up or satisfy them and I do not want to increase it because like I
said they are already overweight. Adding the extra vegetarian food.
Helps them to feel full and satisfied and keeps them from begging,
whinning, and possibly eating a sock or two.
I have tried recreational bones but that doesn't fill them up it just
keeps them busy for about 10 minutes. Then back to scavenging for
something else. And I don't want to add any extra calories so edible
bones are out.
I have never had any problems with doing so. They gobble it up and
poop it out just fine. No digestive disturbances other than feeling
full.
Audrey

Messages in this topic (10)
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8c. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
Posted by: "ekendahl" robert@ekendahl.org ekendahl
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 1:03 pm ((PST))

How long have you fed your pug only meat and bones?

I'm thinking that maybe his insulin level might still be high (or
fluctuating) which can cause hunger.

It has been shown that for humans eating a lot of carbohydrates both
delays the "full" signal to the brain as well as creates hunger
feelings faster then diets low in carbs. I can notice this be true in
myself.

If I eat a big breakfast of poached eggs, smoked salmon and
hollandaise sauce (with no bread or carbs) at 9 am, I don't really
feel hungry until very late in the afternoon say 4.30 pm. I often skip
lunch these days.

If I eat a smaller portion of the above but add a serving of whole
wheat serial and milk, I feel similar fullness after the meal but I'm
STARVING at lunch.

I'm thinking the same might hold true for dogs, that if they are fed
carbs they might get hungry sooner.

I'm also thinking that feeding them fattier food will make them stay
full longer and as their insuling should be low it shouldn't really
mean will gain weight. A problem with chicken might be that it's soo
low in fat that it creates hunger sooner.

Just my 0.02$, for an interesting read on this subject I recommend
"good calories/bad calores" by Taube. It really shows a summary of a
lot of interesting research in weight loss/management.

/Robert Ekendahl

Messages in this topic (10)
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9a. Re: Feeding Indoors? I'm a Newbie
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:38 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
I don't remember ever seeing a post saying "My
> dog has salmonella" You will soon learn that samonella, E-coli, etc
> is just not a problem when feeding raw assuming you wash your hands
> as you would after handling raw meat for humans.

Its funny. I recently lost a gerbil to Samonella. About 4 months
before they ended the pet food recall. Vet said it may have been from
food or my not washing up after handling raw meat. I looked into it.
The food I had been feeding (Kaytee) had just changed their source for
many of the ingredients in the food I had fed. I changed, now I feed
Mazuri to my remaining gerbils. I also new a breeder in Michigan who
had to shut down from selling or aquiring new gerbils for almost a
year due to a salmonella out break. So its not just carnivores at
risk. Every living thing is constantly at risk of being ill. LOL,
its like I say, being alive is an illness for which the only cure is
death. I don't say it to be mean or anything but really you can not
be alive and not at risk for SOMETHING :)

Kathy in MO

Messages in this topic (12)
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9b. Re: Feeding Indoors? I'm a Newbie
Posted by: "jaygaughan" jaygaughan@yahoo.com jaygaughan
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 1:03 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> It's actually much easier to get a dog to eat in a certain spot
than
> you would think. Lay out the towel, put the food on it and let the
> dog eat. If the dog starts to go away with the food, gently place
> the food back on the towel and explain that the towel is the eating
> spot. After a couple of times putting the food back on the towel
> they get the idea. It's also a good idea to put the towel in a
> corner or somewhere that isn't out in the open.
>

>
> Andrea

This is exactly what I did Andrea and it worked GREAT! With in a week
at 10 weeks my now 14 week old Dane puppy doesn't leave his spot with
his food. I dropped a 5lb chcken in his dish this morn and he stayed
right there and went to town on it. 5 minutes later he was licking
his dish for more. He's 45 pounds and growing like a weed.

This is my first Dane feeding raw. MUCH easier than I expected. Just
thaw from the night before and drop in his dish in the morn.

Jay

Messages in this topic (12)
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10a. Re: RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 12:49 pm ((PST))

Marian,

Salmon is fine as long as it has been frozen for a week or so. If you buy
commercially, it has already been frozen...if fresh caught, just throw it in
your freezer.

Much of the chicken these days does have some sort of preservative
solution...that goes for parts and whole. I would bet coming from Walmart
that it is enhanced. Same with turkeys...very hard to find a turk without
preservatives. You have to be really diligent at reading labels. Some dogs
may be able to handle them ok, but many cannot. There are those who believe
it's just chicken broth and perfectly healthy but that is not true. The
ingredients can contain various phosphates and other chemicals, sugar,
flavor enhancers, modified food starch...and who knows how much salt.
Anyway, something to think about.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "mcburkel" <morsgreatdanes@comcast.net>

Sandee-Im not using any suppliments though they do get small tidbits
of treats occasionally BUT its nothing we having been giving for
months. What kind of fish do you suggest? Here in WA we have to be
careful what kind of fish we give our dogs because the fish are
usually with what we call salmon poisoning and it scares me to give
RAW fish.

Jeni-I use walmart chicken I believe it is called red leaf. I looked
on the bag and it doesnt mention anything about hormones or ??? I kow
with my first boy when he fully healed then I waited a month and
tried whole chickens and cut them up and it didnt make a difference
it came back within a month.

Messages in this topic (7)
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11a. Re: All poultry?
Posted by: "jaygaughan" jaygaughan@yahoo.com jaygaughan
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 1:04 pm ((PST))

Start slow on any new foods. I introduce all new meats to my now 14
week old Dane puppy over a week period. I'll give him a very small
portion during his morning meal only. A little more each day for a week
before any big parts are given. Not a single day of loose stool as of
yet. He eats chicken, turkey, beef, pork, fish, eggs, green tripe, and
venison as of now.

Jay

Messages in this topic (5)
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12. Request - coconut - how to open
Posted by: "Joyloulin@aol.com" Joyloulin@aol.com loulin3
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 1:04 pm ((PST))

Someone shared online a video with a woman opening a fresh coconut. Someone
just asked me about this. I sent her another one - but don't think it is as
good. Could you please email me the link
Thank you.

Louise

**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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