[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12452

There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: liver
From: T Smith

2a. Re: RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
From: mcburkel

3a. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
From: jennifer_hell

4a. Re: Leaving RMB's out overnight - indoors?
From: jennifer_hell

5a. Switching to raw for older dogs
From: certaintragedies
5b. Re: Switching to raw for older dogs
From: bluegracepwd
5c. Re: Switching to raw for older dogs
From: certaintragedies
5d. Re: Switching to raw for older dogs
From: Andrea

6a. Re: Chicago Area
From: katkellm

7a. Re: Raw Bacon
From: adkjoe17

8a. Re: Feeding Indoors? I'm a Newbie
From: ekendahl

9a. Re: Was: new member needs help getting started on raw/ Now :...
From: katkellm

10a. Re: good bones for teeth cleaning
From: Mary Tinder

11a. Re: Horse Turds
From: ekendahl
11b. Re: Horse Turds
From: katkellm

Messages
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1.1. Re: liver
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 12:19 am ((PST))

So far I tried these ALL...
Including last night lightly cooked with trip & mixed with bits of raw
pork....
No luck...
Can't get em to eat liver or kidney... Just the Danes are picky! The Lhasas
& the Dal, yummy for near all I offer including the new fresh slamon we are
getting! Freezing before feeding... I think that was recommended?
It's from the best Salmon market around, he gives us heads, spines & tail
free!
the Danes don't eat the fish either.... I give a fish oil capsule weekly, is
that enough?
I'm stumped & flustered.
Trina

On Jan 2, 2008 9:06 PM, Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 1>mix with Egg
> 2>Mix with Tripe
> 3>sear a little only when introduction phase andgradulally less searing
> 4>feed frozen
>
> You can try these tricks.
>
> Mine hates pork liver,but if it were mixed with RawEgg,she gubbles down.
>
> yassy
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (56)
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2a. Re: RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
Posted by: "mcburkel" morsgreatdanes@comcast.net mcburkel
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 1:56 am ((PST))

++++++++Mod note: pls sign all emails ++++++++++++++++

Thank you for all the ideas so far...

Sandee-Im not using any suppliments though they do get small tidbits
of treats occasionally BUT its nothing we having been giving for
months. What kind of fish do you suggest? Here in WA we have to be
careful what kind of fish we give our dogs because the fish are
usually with what we call salmon poisoning and it scares me to give
RAW fish.

Jeni-I use walmart chicken I believe it is called red leaf. I looked
on the bag and it doesnt mention anything about hormones or ??? I kow
with my first boy when he fully healed then I waited a month and
tried whole chickens and cut them up and it didnt make a difference
it came back within a month.

Bill-Im soo glad your still alive!! I hope everything is well I think
about you from time to time wishing you could give some much needed
advice!! ANyways....The vet told me that all dogs carry a natural
staph infection but the dogs immune system fight it off and thats why
it cant be transmitted. I will be honest I dont believe that at all!!
Gretchen was on the EXACT same food at her breeders (Lisa) and never
had any skin issues. When Erskine got his skin stuff back she got it
within 2-4 weeks after him.

This time around Gretchen did get it first BUT Morgan (new pup) had
one spot that is larger then any of the others. I have a dane foster
pup here and he is black and I cant tell wether or not he has it. Ive
searched for any raised bumps and cant find any, but without seeing
it it is very hard to detect.

Hope that helps!!

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 2:59 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@...>
wrote:
>
> Has anyone come across this website?
> http://www.secondchanceranch.com/training/raw_meat/index.html
>
> Just curious what your thoughts are...

http://rawfed.com/myths/rebuttal.html

Jennifer

Messages in this topic (11)
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4a. Re: Leaving RMB's out overnight - indoors?
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 2:59 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Susanne MacLeod" <suzmacleod@...>
wrote:
So I was wondering to those long term raw feeders, do you leave a rmb
out
> overnight on their feeding blankie, or do you guys pick it up and
put it in the fridge, when it
> comes time to go to beddies?

I usually put it in the fridge. Right after it's obvious that my girl
doesn't eat it anymore.

Jennifer

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Switching to raw for older dogs
Posted by: "certaintragedies" inaudibly@gmail.com certaintragedies
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 3:15 am ((PST))

Hi,

My two dogs, 8 and 10 year old beagles, have both been on kibble their
whole lives. Recently, I thought of switching to raw, but I have a few
questions first about the transition.

Is it too late to make the switch? I've heard that for older dogs it
is essential to add some probiotic supplements to make the change go
smoothly. I haven't found any supplements in tablet form, but I've
read this can be done by adding some yoghurt to their diet as well. Is
this true, and if so, how much yoghurt should I add?

Are there any other dangers with making the switch to raw at an older
age? I've also read that when you make the switch to raw, you should
start off with a bland and simple diet. Any examples of what food
would be good for this? I am going with 70% RMB, 10% muscle meat and
20% veg. Should I introduce just the RMB first, then slowly add the
veg and the muscle meat?

My dogs eat outdoors. They are indoor dogs, but they have constant
access to our fenced yard and their food bowls get put down outside at
feeding time. Is this a problem, salmonella-wise?

Lastly, how long will it be before I start seeing results? Not that I
am impatient, but I want to know when I will be able to tell if raw
works better for my dogs. A month? Two months?

Thanks a lot.

-Melissa

Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: Switching to raw for older dogs
Posted by: "bluegracepwd" janea@tpg.com.au bluegracepwd
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 3:24 am ((PST))

Hi Melissa,

welcome to the list. Ok, there's no truth to the myth that older
dogs need probiotics. So save yourself some money there. I
wouldn't bother with yoghurt.

Yes, keep the diet simple to start with. Just one protein source
such as chicken is pretty common.

No veggies. Your dog is a carnivore.

I would start with something like chicken quarters and go from
there. Perhaps offal etc in a couple of weeks.

Most of my dogs eat outside as well. What's been stopping your dogs
from getting salmonella from their kibble? Bacteria is everywhere.
Kibble is not a sterile food.

Results can start to happen as early as a day or two. Sometimes
longer. While it does provide a better platform for health than
kibble, it won't solve all medical issues.

Hope that helps.

cheers

Jane

Messages in this topic (4)
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5c. Re: Switching to raw for older dogs
Posted by: "certaintragedies" inaudibly@gmail.com certaintragedies
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 6:20 am ((PST))

Thanks very much, Jane. So do you think starting them off on about 210
grams of only chicken quarters will be fine for them?

I understand that raw feeding is not a cure-all solution to health
problems. The specific case that catalysed my decision to start raw
feeding is a skin problem that has developed in the last few months in
my older girl. I suspect it is food allergies, and high-quality kibble
is very expensive here. I'm thinking it may be the grains in kibble
that are sparking off the rash. How long do you think I would need to
feed raw before seeing a difference in skin condition?

Again, thank you so much for your help.

-Melissa

Messages in this topic (4)
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5d. Re: Switching to raw for older dogs
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 6:35 am ((PST))

> Is it too late to make the switch?

It's never too late, and it isn't really harder with older dogs
either. They might take some more time to understand you are giving
them food, especially if they were taught not to eat "people food"
all their lives. You should also take it slowly with new foods, give
it at least a week between new proteins so you make sure their
digestive system is doing well. Other than that, nothing special is
needed for switching an otherwise healthy older dog.

> I've also read that when you make the switch to raw, you should
> start off with a bland and simple diet.

Most people use chicken to switch because it is cheap and easy to
get. It happens to be rather bland, but many people make the switch
with things like venison. Simple is the key. Just start with about
2-3% of the ideal adult weight fed every day.

> I am going with 70% RMB, 10% muscle meat and 20% veg.

First of all, you don't need the veggies. Dogs have no nutritional
need for vegetables or fruits. And it is much easier to think of
things in terms of meat, edible bones, and organs. Feed mostly meat,
some edible bone, and some organ (though you should hold off on the
organ for a while at first). Give animal parts covered in gobs of
meat. Don't give lone chicken wings, give a breast quarter with the
wing still attached.

> My dogs eat outdoors. <snip> Is this a problem, salmonella-wise?

It is no more a problem than when you were feeding ki**le. Use
regular food safety practices and you'll be fine.

> Lastly, how long will it be before I start seeing results?

It depends on what kind of results you mean. The energy change is
quite fast. Many hyper dogs calm down with a proper diet and many
older dogs start acting like they were young again. The "doggy
smell" goes away very quickly, maybe a week or so. Bad breath may
take longer depending on the state of the dog's teeth. Itchiness
from allergies may take longer since it can take some time for the
allergens from the old food to get out of the system.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: Chicago Area
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 5:00 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "godkrittersnkids"
<godkrittersnkids@...> wrote:
>
> Hi! Keep me in mind and feel free to email me privately...just getting
> started here
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "skcreedon" <skcreedon@> wrote:
> > Anyone from the Chicago area ... bulk buy

Hi Susan and Linda,
I live a couple of hours sw of Chicago, but here are a couple of
places that i have found to be great for this area. You can order
from here:

http://www.taylorpondfarms.com/

I have never been here, but i have a friend who shops at Peoria Meats
all the time. There is another place right by it called Grand Packing
that i don't have a link for that is a good place, too.

http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=23813

The stuff from Prey4Pets is excellent, but the shipping is too
expensive for me. So, since i don't have the moxie to do it, Nicole
had indicated to me, this was almost a year ago though, that for a
large order she would/could maybe drive up and deliver.

http://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFront

KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Re: Raw Bacon
Posted by: "adkjoe17" j2dope17@yahoo.com adkjoe17
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 5:00 am ((PST))

Thanks everyone for the Info on the bacon, I didn't know it was full
of crap from curing thank you. I will eaither cook it up for treats
or just give it to the neighbors :)

Joe

Messages in this topic (6)
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8a. Re: Feeding Indoors? I'm a Newbie
Posted by: "ekendahl" robert@ekendahl.org ekendahl
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 5:42 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Alexis" <alexis78@...> wrote:
> At least we have hard wood floors but he
> dragged the meat and bone all over the floor and onto his bed. I'm
> concerned about the possibility of salmonella, etc. My family thinks
> I'm nuts for feeding him raw meat and obviously the indoor thing was a
> mistake....any suggestions for keeping the mess 'contained.' :)
> Thanks!
>
> Alexis & Cassius
>

I fed my two very active shepherd in an open kitchen and they tried to
walk away with the food to the sofa. Everytime they walked away I took
the food away and placed it in the kitchen area.

It took exactly two times the first time until they stuck around in
the kitchen. The second time it took my large dog one attempt and my
young one none and by the third feeding neither tried to move away.

The first five times I was standing at the "exit" of the kitchen
watching over them but this morning I was hanging out by the sink and
neither walked away. As a test I walked out of the kitchen and around
in the living room and both dogs stayed in the assigned area.

It seems that once dogs find a "comfortable" area they will eat in a
relatively small space, at least mine does. Just teach them what is
the okay zone to eat, and they will learn the rule quickly! Remember
you have the ultimate teaching tool (raw protein!) so I'm sure they
will listen closely!

/Robert Ekendahl

Messages in this topic (8)
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9a. Re: Was: new member needs help getting started on raw/ Now :...
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 5:42 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, boswellrt@... wrote:
> I was told not to
> feed the larger bones but could the dogs use them to just chew on for
> recreation.

Hi Trish,
Large bones are, this is my take on it, others may disagree, ok to
feed as long as they are BURIED under hide or skin or sinew or tendons
or meat...The bone can not be a bare naked bone. So, since you are
telling the processor or you are processing the deer yourself, i guess
i would tell them to do what would be considered a bad job and leave
meat on them there bones. Once your dog has removed all of the
goodies off of the bones, you need to decide if the bones are edible
bones, or if they are too dense to be eaten by your dog and are wreck,
as in crack or wear down teeth, bones. If they are wreck bones, an
example would always be a cow leg bone once it is stripped, you just
pick it up and toss it. I am sorry that i couldn't find what size
dogs you have from the archives, so this is kind of sketchy advice.
Too dense of a bone can, in some cases, depend on the size of the dog.
While my large dogs crunch right through a deer leg, served as is with
nothing removed and the hoof still attached, that same deer
leg may not to edible for a smaller dog. A smaller dog can be given
the leg as long as it is taken away from the dog once it becomes a
bare naked bone. So, watch your dogs with the bone and once they have
eaten all the meat off of it, and if you see they aren't making any
progress on the bone, call it inedible and remove it. Deer necks and
ribs are good eatin for most dogs. Deer legs and heads are great to
serve as is, just don't remove anything. If my memory serves instead
of fails me, I think Tina Berry hunts deer, so hopefully she will help
you get this thing down better than i did when she gets on line. KathyM

Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Re: good bones for teeth cleaning
Posted by: "Mary Tinder" mtinder@tinderco.com mmmaryt
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 5:42 am ((PST))

Thanks Chris. I should have checked the archives. Great resource.

It seemed my crew's teeth came clean so quickly when I started raw but
not so for this new girl. She also seems to have a bit of a challenge
gnawing off pieces... It's like she does not have the same sort of
scissor bite o the sides. Maybe just inexperience.
Mary T

> We hit this topic recently. You might want to check the list
archives.
>
> The best bones period are those slathered with meat. Probably the
easiest way to clean teeth and keep teeth clean is to feed a variety
of meaty body parts, some with bone, some without.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. Re: Horse Turds
Posted by: "ekendahl" robert@ekendahl.org ekendahl
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 5:59 am ((PST))

To my understanding poo eating is common in dogs and many seem to go
for the exotic stuff.

My older german shepherd where eating poo while growing up. It didn't
seem to matter how much I tried to reprimand him he still did it.
Frozen poopscicels seem the best! It's disgusting, but as far as I
know relatively harmless.

Not sure if I were lucky or not but since he turned 2 years old he has
stopped.

I think dogs simply smell undigested food in the feces and goes for
that. I think he would be less interested in the coyote feces as they
eat raw so leave little nutrition behind. Horse feces might have more
(not sure).

/Robert Ekendahl

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Loraine Jesse <rothburg@...> wrote:
>
>
> My pups who are a little over 4 months have been fed prey model
since they have been weaned. There is a horse in a field that is
along our walking trail, my precious male puppy has now decided that
he has a passion for horse turds, does not matter if they are frozen
or, fresh he loves them all. There is also poop from other wild
animals such a coyotes, so it would not surprise me if they both have
had a munch on these too. Will this hurt my puppies? Is there anything
I can do to stop this passion for horse turds? Why on earth would they
even want to eat poop with all the good food they are being fed? My
Husband thinks this is so funny, but then again he is not the one
trying to pull the crap from my boy's jaws.
> Loraine Jesse
> www.rothburgrottweilers.com
> _________________________________________________________________
> Introducing the City @ Live! Take a tour!
> http://getyourliveid.ca/?icid=LIVEIDENCA006
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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11b. Re: Horse Turds
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 5:59 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Loraine Jesse <rothburg@...> wrote:
>There is a horse in a field that is along our walking trail, my
precious male puppy has now decided that he has a passion for horse
turds, does not matter if they are frozen or, fresh he loves them all.

Hi Loraine,
I live on a horse farm, and all i can tell you is that horse turds are
held in high esteem by my dogs, also. When they are frozen, we call
them poopcicles. My dogs have access to tons of turds and have
actually had a stare down over a particular turd. Like you, my dogs
are fed prey model diets. I have no idea what to say other than my
dogs have never had a problem with parasite or anything from eating
them. At least when they kiss you with horse turd breath, its not
near as stinky as cat box breath. <g> KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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