[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12443

There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Pork Neck bones
From: Heather
1b. Re: Pork Neck bones
From: Laurie Swanson

2a. Re: Do I have a good balance?
From: Morledzep@aol.com
2b. Re: Do I have a good balance?
From: c_lindaberry

3a. Re: Feed raw rib bone or not? Help Me Chris:)
From: costrowski75
3b. Re: Feed raw rib bone or not? Help Me Chris:)
From: Betty

4a. Re: Chris, what kind of dogs do you have?
From: costrowski75

5a. Hooved animals?
From: Betty
5b. Re: Hooved animals?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

6a. Re: good bones to feed gulpers(was: Do I have a good balance?
From: Laurie Swanson

7a. Re: bones for teeth cleaning/small dogs (was: Photos link of my dog'
From: Laurie Swanson

8. Another new convert with questions...
From: christinegenova

9. eadible bones in pork
From: atmanandadevotee

10a. Re: How many times a week are eggs ok
From: solblr

11. Is this going to be a balanced diet.
From: jordan_spiva

12.1. worms
From: Gaye Amick

Messages
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1a. Re: Pork Neck bones
Posted by: "Heather" newbeginnings06@gmail.com malignstar
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:58 pm ((PST))

Would it also be acceptable to feed neck bones with the organs for the
week or does it really need to be muscle meat? I can get neck bones
cheaper than other pork and was thinking about feeding one the same
day as some beef heart and liver and possibly kidney when I can find
it.

Heather

Messages in this topic (8)
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1b. Re: Pork Neck bones
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2008 2:54 am ((PST))

Sure!

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Heather" <newbeginnings06@...>
wrote:
>
> Would it also be acceptable to feed neck bones with the organs for
the
> week or does it really need to be muscle meat?

Messages in this topic (8)
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2a. Re: Do I have a good balance?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:12 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 12/31/2007 10:57:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cahill_kevin@hotmail.com writes:

If no
chicken grinding and no knuckle and weight bearing bones, what do you
suggest? ribs, other meaty beef bones?

Kevin,

you might be thinking too hard.. or making this harder than it has to be. I
don't know the size of your dog, so i'm just gonna tell you what i tell
everyone else.

ALL pork bones are edible, even leg bones.. same goes for lamb and goat
bones. all poultry: turkey, ducks, chickens, geese (if you can afford it, i
can't). and all raw fish (fed whole of course, bones organs and everything if you
can get it). all of these bones are completely edible, even the leg bones for
MOST dogs. Exceptions may need to be made for tiny dogs and old dog folks.

But the big thing you and most beginners get wrong is that they think of this
diet as BONES with some meat. When it's exactly the opposite, it is MEAT
with edible bone and organs. There really is nothing more difficult than that
once you wrap your head around to making it easier on yourself.

Catherine R.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
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Messages in this topic (9)
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2b. Re: Do I have a good balance?
Posted by: "c_lindaberry" c_lindaberry@yahoo.com c_lindaberry
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:51 pm ((PST))

> Thanks for the input...now I am a little confused. I have read that
> bone is pretty critical. And since my 11 yr old Lab won't chew (
> only gulps them down) chicken bones, I decided to grind them. If no
> chicken grinding and no knuckle and weight bearing bones, what do you
> suggest? ribs, other meaty beef bones?
> Thanks,
> Kevin

If your lab is gulping rather than chewing, you need to re-think what
you're feeding. You don't need to grind anything. Give your lab half
of a chicken, or if s/he is a larger lab, a whole chicken. You and
your dog will both find that it's pretty difficult to gulp down
something as big as the dog's head. The bones in a chicken are edible
bone, as is virtually all bone of all animals save huge ungulates like
cows.

Remember that dogs don't 'chew' in the sense that people do- they
don't have flat grinding teeth to reduce their food to small bits like
humans and other veggie-eating species do. They have large shearing
teeth designed to reduce large chunks of meat and bone into smaller
chunks that fit down their throat. Most labs consider anything smaller
than a quarter of a chicken a swallow-able chunk, and they're
perfectly right. If it's too big, they have conscious control of their
esophagus and decide to bring it back up to be hacked into a slightly
smaller chunk. That's normal, natural and healthy.

When he was gulping down those little bones you were giving him, he
was doing the appropriate thing. It's your job to feed big enough that
he'll have to work at it to get it down. Big and/or frozen are the two
ways to force dogs to rip their food apart, so toss out the grinder
and start feeding whole meaty small animals like chickens and rabbits
or large chunks of even larger animals like pigs and cows along with
some of their organs.

-Crystal and the Zoo

Messages in this topic (9)
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3a. Re: Feed raw rib bone or not? Help Me Chris:)
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:32 pm ((PST))

"Betty" <prismkitten@...> wrote:>
> Chris, how do I get a photo album placed on the photo pages of my dog?
*****
Off hand, I don't know. The photo section used to be open but it was
abused too many times by dimbulbs so we have limited access to it. I
am not sure what has to be done to reopen it. If you have a photo
album on Flickr or some such, you can post a link for us to use.

> And can you please explain (I've been reading, following links, and
> doing a lot of research in regard to this raw feeding issue) if I'm
> doing right or wrong by giving my dog raw rib bones, one at a time to
> help him clear up some of his teeth issues? This shouldn't be so
> difficult and so diverse in opinion should it?
*****
In any topic as "controversial" and "unscientific" as raw feeding,
there will be opinions galore on every facet. For every up there will
be a down; for every left there is a right and a middle; for every yes
there is a no and a maybe. What you have to do, ultimately, is know
what the basics are, know what works for your dog, know what works for
you.

In my opinion, a beef rib with meat and fat and sinew on it is a good
chew but once the meat, fat and sinew are gone, the bone's purpose is
finished. In my opinion, two attached beef ribs are better than a
singleton; and three attached ribs are better than two. I don't see
the point in giving him one bone at a time.

If you are quite certain your dog will not do something stupid with a
beef rib, you can give him one but I recommend you supervise the fun.
Always start out with a fresh meaty bone and always collect it up when
it's split, splintered and/or dried up.

I am not convinced beef ribs alone will adequately clean up a dog's
mouth, but if you are comfortable with the risks, then you surely have
the right to give it a shot.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (11)
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3b. Re: Feed raw rib bone or not? Help Me Chris:)
Posted by: "Betty" prismkitten@yahoo.com prismkitten
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:54 pm ((PST))

Ok, that clears up some issues. I guess that I was thinking that more
than one bone was going to be too much food for my dog since he also
gets a feeding of raw meat. I will be giving him more diverse raw
foods like the chicken bones as I did before, but in addition to the
raw rib bones. And I'm going to try the whole fish also, but only
depending on size and weight, only what they say to feed per day as in
my dog's case is about 3.7 oz of a meal item.

I don't know what he can do with one bone as opposed to an attached
couple of bones? I do throw the rib bones away once he's cleaned them.
It takes him all day to do that..so if he had more than one, it would
be several days of cleaning the attached bones.

What risks are there with raw rib bones? What bones are best, better
in your opinion?

I always end up doing my own research, experimenting, (that's why I'm
here:) as I'm also learning from others about any new protocols on my
health or my dog.

I was under the impression that it was more clear cut that's all..I
didn't realize until Sandee said something about raw rib bones not
being the best that I started to wonder.

Too bad about the photos section:( Oh well..that's ok. No biggie there!

Prism

If you are quite certain your dog will not do something stupid with a
beef rib, you can give him one but I recommend you supervise the fun.
Always start out with a fresh meaty bone and always collect it up when
it's split, splintered and/or dried up.

I am not convinced beef ribs alone will adequately clean up a dog's
mouth, but if you are comfortable with the risks, then you surely have
the right to give it a shot.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (11)
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4a. Re: Chris, what kind of dogs do you have?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:43 pm ((PST))

"Betty" <prismkitten@...> wrote:
>
> Just wondering..it's getting difficult to know who has what with the
> newness..sorry if you already stated that.
*****
No, I did not mention and I should have. Sorry. I have two goldens, a
Lab and a border collie.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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5a. Hooved animals?
Posted by: "Betty" prismkitten@yahoo.com prismkitten
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2008 12:02 am ((PST))

I read thru a link here someplace that raw feeding dogs is any large
hooved animal..and chicken, rabbits, fish, and such aren't hooved. How
does one conclude that chickens and such are ok? Just wondering..I
give my Maltese meaty raw chicken thighs, and it seems like many
people here give lots of other meats other than 'hooved' meats.

I'm beginning to get it though..that there is a diverse base of
opinions and options so I am just trying to find some other things to
add to my dogs diet so he can have excellent health and be happy in
his all his carnivorousness! Is that a real word:) I'm learning a lot
lately and I'm going to try some new foods for him..fish, rabbit,
hunks of some meats, various organs (which I do already), etc.

Thanks to everyone sharing their info. and Happy 2008 and good health
to you and your pets!

Prism

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Hooved animals?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2008 12:40 am ((PST))

In a message dated 1/1/2008 12:02:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,
prismkitten@yahoo.com writes:

I read thru a link here someplace that raw feeding dogs is any large
hooved animal..and chicken, rabbits, fish, and such aren't hooved. How
does one conclude that chickens and such are ok? Just wondering.

Prism,

chickens are ok because they are cheap, and they are meat and bone and come
with some organs. they are not necessarily species appropriate, but they help
make your raw feeding $$$ stretch further.

All non-predators are prey animals.. doesn't matter if they have hooves or
not. birds and rabbits generally aren't wolf prey because they aren't big
enough or easy enough to catch to feed an entire wolf pack.

Catherine R.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

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Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: good bones to feed gulpers(was: Do I have a good balance?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2008 12:40 am ((PST))

Hi Kevin,

What types of chicken parts have you tried? That info will help us
advise you. I don't feed much chicken, but my Boston gulper does well
with pork or lamb necks (big hunks), big hunks of goat, like a leg or
shoulder, bone-in turkey thighs (prox. 1.5# hunks of meat w/bone). You
can also try bone-in fish.

Your dog might slow down in time if he's a newbie (mine definitely did
after a few months of prey model feeding), and bigger food always works
to make 'em think about how to tackle the item as well, and not be as
stupid about trying to swallow choking hazards.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kevinedc_la" <cahill_kevin@...>
wrote:
And since my 11 yr old Lab won't chew (
> only gulps them down) chicken bones, I decided to grind them. If no
> chicken grinding and no knuckle and weight bearing bones, what do you
> suggest?

Messages in this topic (9)
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7a. Re: bones for teeth cleaning/small dogs (was: Photos link of my dog'
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2008 2:54 am ((PST))

Hi Prism,

I feed edible bones and occasionally give my dogs inedible bones with
meat on them (removing them when cleaned of meat).

I give my 20# Bostons single beef rib bones sometimes and remove them
when they're cleaned. It seems fine to me to do this as long as I
don't let them work on them and really try to crunch them or grind
away their teeth on them. Beef rib slabs are more of a workout so I
get them on occasion as well, and remove the bones when cleaned off.
Anything bigger and more complicated will be a better, more engaging
workout and clean teeth better. Once you try it, you'll see the
difference. But it may not be necessary since your dog is so small.
Would still be fun, though! Pork or lamb ribs/slabs are usually
edible for my dog (especially riblets).

You shouldn't need to remove a chicken bone--isn't that completely
edible for your dog?

The idea is just not to let them try to eat bones that are too hard
for their teeth. This will vary depending on the size of your dog.
Generally, for all dogs, it is all cow bones or those of the really
large animals, though. Other bones from smaller animals will be
edible for some dogs and not others. All dogs should be able to eat
chicken, rabbit, fish, and most or all turkey bones. Many pork bones
are soft enough for most dogs. The way you can tell is how easily
they can eat them. If they are chomping down or gnawing away and not
making progress, they are too hard for their teeth. It does take a
little practice to see exactly what works for your dog.

You may want to search the archives for small/tiny/toy dogs. The
responses lately haven't been as many due to the holidays, I imagine--
but there has been a lot of discussion about this in the past.

Does this help?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Betty" <prismkitten@...> wrote:

What is a meaty edible bone then?

What's the difference between
> cleaning one side of a slab and then the other side of the slab
> compared to cleaning one side of one bone and then the other side of
> that bone?

Messages in this topic (8)
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8. Another new convert with questions...
Posted by: "christinegenova" geauxgirl@sbcglobal.net christinegenova
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2008 2:54 am ((PST))

Hello --

I've enjoyed reading the posts, and now have questions of my own. I brought home a super
sweet Whippet pup last week, and have been feeding her raw from the start. Some chicken
thighs, chicken necks that I was chopping for her (whoops), and yesterday she got her first
chicken leg quarter. She seemed quite pleased, and worked away at it and slept soundly
from the exertion. I patted myslef on the back and figured that I was really getting the hang
of things.... Well, this morning, I fed her some of the remains, all seemed well. Her interest
waned over the course of the day, and she showed no interest in the pm. She's a petite little
thing, the runt of the litter, so I feel it is important to encourage her. Any ideas? She's happy
and playful. Chicken burn-out perhaps? Also -- we went to a friends house for New Year's
dinner. She was also invited and treated to some left over (cooked) goose from Christmas.
She loved this and was looking for more. Gave her the chicken, a couple of sniffs and she
just walked away. Tips please, and many thanks for all the wonderful info.

Messages in this topic (1)
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9. eadible bones in pork
Posted by: "atmanandadevotee" atmanandadevotee@yahoo.fr atmanandadevotee
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2008 4:16 am ((PST))

++++admin: pls sign all emails ++++++

what are eadible bones in pork ? what are wreck bones in pork ?
I just bought half a pork and would like to know what let them eat or
not ?

Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: How many times a week are eggs ok
Posted by: "solblr" solblr@yahoo.com solblr
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2008 4:16 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> I feed raw egg about 2 per week. I don't feed daily.
>
> It is high protin source(very digestable source of protin),but
since most of cal comes from fat(EB egg that I feed gives half the
cal from fat) and I try to loose my dog weight so,2 is max that I
give.Instead,I rotate between Tripe side dish and Egg.
>
> She did not get Egg today but,she goes nuts about tripe balls
for side dish today:-P
>
> She keep licking the zip bag like crazy. Her mouth smell like
tripe today but that is ok,she enjoyed the meal.
>
> yassy and palette who lost half pound this week

Thanks everyone so much..i was worried becoz I read somewhere that
it is to be fed only once a week but I'm going to feed it every
alternate day & take it from there.
Since it's related , I'd like a little help on one more issue . Is
it better to remove the whites & feed only the yolks as i've read
that the biotin in whites is a problem for dogs.

Vanita
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
Mobile. Try it now.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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11. Is this going to be a balanced diet.
Posted by: "jordan_spiva" jordan_spiva@yahoo.com jordan_spiva
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2008 4:16 am ((PST))

I visited rodentpro.com. They have the BEST prices. It's a snake feed place and they also
stock whole carcasess of guinea pigs,rabbits,quail,and chicks. Will my dog be getting
everything he needs from those whole prey animals only?

asked by Jordan Spiva

Messages in this topic (1)
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12.1. worms
Posted by: "Gaye Amick" northernskychar@netzero.com northernskyacademy
Date: Tue Jan 1, 2008 5:20 am ((PST))

I'm still researching...Yes, still....I was brought up with the idea if
a dog was feed raw food or raw bones they could get worms??? Can this
happen from feeding some raw foods? How can I prevent it from
happening?? What foods to avoid that are known to cause worms? What'll
I do if it does???

Thanks for all your help.
Gaye

Messages in this topic (37)
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