[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12438

There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: vets and samonella
From: mathamgri

2a. Re: Does feeding raw repel fleas and ticks?
From: mathamgri

3a. Teeth cleaning meals
From: mathamgri
3b. Re: Teeth cleaning meals
From: Betty

4.1. Re: liver
From: T Smith
4.2. Re: liver
From: mathamgri
4.3. Re: liver
From: jennifer_hell

5a. Re: is this rabbit too big for my dog to eat?/cutting rabbit
From: delcaste

6a. Raw puppy menu - help in planning
From: michellegallik
6b. Re: Raw puppy menu - help in planning
From: Sandee Lee
6c. Re: Raw puppy menu - help in planning
From: borodeauxs

7.1. Re: My dogs teeth on 3rd day of raw rib bones
From: Erika
7.2. Re: My dogs teeth on 3rd day of raw rib bones
From: Betty

8. How to post photos?
From: Betty

9.1. Re: Hi everyone!
From: Betty

10.1. Re: Hi everyone!/teeth cleaning meals
From: Betty

11.1. What kind of dogs do you have Bill?
From: Betty

12. How many times a week are eggs ok
From: solblr

13a. My Intro
From: Sandra Yearsley

14. side benefits
From: Mary Tinder

15a. Re: Another newbie with questions!
From: noahsmom8497

16. First rabbit and 3 mo update
From: laura.wimpey

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: vets and samonella
Posted by: "mathamgri" mathamgri@yahoo.com mathamgri
Date: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:23 pm ((PST))

---> > Well, duh, that was my thought, too. Shouldn't the focus of the
study be on developing ways to produce uncontaminated foods for our
tables? What are these peoples agendas?

Hannah

> > It tells me that samonella might be found on the kitchen counters
of
> people who eat chicken, regardless of if they even own pets! So then,
> what are they worried about, that chicken-fed dogs' poop is likely to
> end up on the kitchen counter as well? Ha ha ha ha what a silly study!
>
> Karen
>

Messages in this topic (23)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Does feeding raw repel fleas and ticks?
Posted by: "mathamgri" mathamgri@yahoo.com mathamgri
Date: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:24 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Kristina and Corey"
<skijor.kris@...> wrote:
>
> I read somewhere that feeding raw food makes a dogs blood bitter to
ticks, fleas and even
> mosquitos. But I have not read it anywhere else. Does anyone know
more about this, or
> have an observation regarding it?
>
> >This is very interesting. I have a road I walk my dogs on in the
winter, I call it "Tick Road." I don't go there in the warmer months
for obvious reasons. I took my dogs there in November, thought it was
cold enough. Apparently not. Guess who got the tick? Not the dogs.

I'll start working on my diet immediately!

Hannah

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Teeth cleaning meals
Posted by: "mathamgri" mathamgri@yahoo.com mathamgri
Date: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:16 pm ((PST))

I have a thought about this. My oldest dog was fed kibble until he was
eight-years-old (poor guy). Of course, he went to the vet regularly to
have his teeth cleaned. When I first started him on raw meat, I made my
own dog food following Pitcairn's recipes. Lots of grains and
additives, a lot of work but worth it, I thought. My dogs health and
well-being improved vastly on Pitcairn. I attribute that now to the raw
meat. But the point is, at that time they got ground meat in the mix
and no bones. But my old dog's teeth cleaned up beautifully and my
young dog's stayed white. They are sparkling now on prey-model, but I
read somewhere that it is the enzymes in the raw meat. Does anyone know
anthing about this?

Hannah

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Teeth cleaning meals
Posted by: "Betty" prismkitten@yahoo.com prismkitten
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:56 am ((PST))

I don't think it has to do with enzymes due to the fact that I have
been feeding raw for over 5 years, and my dog was given raw bone but
not often enough, and maybe even the prepared stuff was not really
good for him. I fed him raw meat though along with the prepared
stuff..good thing probably! His teeth did not fare well. I think due
to your regular dental visits were the most beneficial while your dogs
were on the kibble. Are you saying they were not cleaned up
beautifully after the vets dental cleanings? And got cleaned up
beautifully after introducing the raw meats? Did you keep up with the
vet dental cleanings during the this change in diet and are you still
taking them to the vet for that service? I'm a little confused.
Prism

But the point is, at that time they got ground meat in the mix
> and no bones. But my old dog's teeth cleaned up beautifully and my
> young dog's stayed white. They are sparkling now on prey-model, but
I read somewhere that it is the enzymes in the raw meat. Does anyone
know anthing about this?
Hannah
>

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4.1. Re: liver
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:16 pm ((PST))

Yes I did leave the room....
but will try the tripe thing.
Maybe that will work.
Thank You
Trina

On Dec 30, 2007 9:36 PM, <Morledzep@aol.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> Trina,
>
> they are picking up on your revulsion.. you need to get a handle on your
> emotions. as long as you have strong reactions to the organ meats your
> dogs won't
> eat them no matter what you do to them.
>
> put them in food bowls, do whatever you need to to keep yourself in check.
>
> And when the dogs are eating go somewhere else, another room or something
> so
> you won't upset them further. Give them about half an hour to eat and if
> they
> don't pick it up, cover it and put in the fridge until their next meal.
>
> or chunk it and mix it with green tripe.. again, with you in another room
> to
> keep your emotions from upsetting the dogs..
>
> Catherine R.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (52)
________________________________________________________________________

4.2. Re: liver
Posted by: "mathamgri" mathamgri@yahoo.com mathamgri
Date: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:17 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Belinda van de Loo"
<auntielindyloo@...> wrote:
>
> Dehydrated liver is irresistable for the dogs! >

I dry liver to use as training treats for my dogs, but doesn't the
dryer negate the effects of raw?

Hannah

Messages in this topic (52)
________________________________________________________________________

4.3. Re: liver
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:56 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> Yes I did leave the room....
> but will try the tripe thing.

My girl only eats that kind of stuff cut up in small pieces and mixed
either with dehydrated tripe meal or parmesan cheese. Nothing else works.

Jennifer

Messages in this topic (52)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: is this rabbit too big for my dog to eat?/cutting rabbit
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:17 pm ((PST))

I cut them in
> four...which means I get 4 meals out of every wabbit!
> Suz Kate and Joey

Do you cut them like you would a chicken? Thanks.

Silvina

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Raw puppy menu - help in planning
Posted by: "michellegallik" michelle@hdinger.com michellegallik
Date: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:17 pm ((PST))

Newbie here. I don't have any issues w/bacteria or real questions
about types of raw meat. My questions are what is appropriate at what
age ? Can my 10 week old start scarfing down neck bones ?

Can anyone just sort of list out what's ok for another couple of days
until my books from Amazon arrive?

So far, we've tapered down the kibble to organic ground organ
meats/turkey/beef but wondered when can I just throw in parts and let
her go ?

Soooo much to read, so any help during this new baby intro. time is
appreciated.

Happy New Year everyone.

Michelle

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Raw puppy menu - help in planning
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:29 pm ((PST))

Michelle,

These past messages from some puppy feeders may help....

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135757
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135847
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/137170
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/145223

By 10-weeks-old, a puppy should be able to eat some bone, especially
something like a chicken breast. I would recommend larger and meatier than
a neck tho.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "michellegallik" <michelle@hdinger.com>

Newbie here. I don't have any issues w/bacteria or real questions
about types of raw meat. My questions are what is appropriate at what
age ? Can my 10 week old start scarfing down neck bones ?

Can anyone just sort of list out what's ok for another couple of days
until my books from Amazon arrive?

So far, we've tapered down the kibble to organic ground organ
meats/turkey/beef but wondered when can I just throw in parts and let
her go ?

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: Raw puppy menu - help in planning
Posted by: "borodeauxs" Borodeauxs@googlemail.com borodeauxs
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:57 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Michelle,
>
> These past messages from some puppy feeders may help....
>
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135757
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135847
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/137170
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/145223
>
> By 10-weeks-old, a puppy should be able to eat some bone,
especially
> something like a chicken breast. I would recommend larger and
meatier than
> a neck tho.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "michellegallik" <michelle@...>
>
>
> Newbie here. I don't have any issues w/bacteria or real questions
> about types of raw meat. My questions are what is appropriate at
what
> age ? Can my 10 week old start scarfing down neck bones ?
>
> Can anyone just sort of list out what's ok for another couple of
days
> until my books from Amazon arrive?
>
> So far, we've tapered down the kibble to organic ground organ
> meats/turkey/beef but wondered when can I just throw in parts and
let
> her go ?

Hi Michelle,...we have just weaned a litter straight onto raw food
and they are doing very well,..from 5 weeks on they were eating
lambs hearts,...tripe with reds(hearts,toungues,cheek,throat,.)
chicken wings(supervised),steaks,.. lambs soft breast bones,..a
little ox kidney,..and large meaty/fatty bones to play with(keeps
them queit for a while),..we have a 10 month old bitch which has
recieved the same diet since we collected her at 8 weeks old,..and
she is growing very well at a even pace,..
I would keep away from necks bones as a little to sharp and tuff for
the little guy's teeth and gums,..think the chicken wings are good
for them to chew on,soft bone and a natural source of glucosamine
for the growing pups,and believe have the highest consentration of
natural glucosamine,..we start of with hard meals first(bones)to get
them use to chewing the food and not going straight in
gulping,..this seems to work for us and they will chew the meats
offered,..I have noticed that if they are use to soft meats before
the bones they learn to gulp,and will try it with wings ,..
let them chew into the wings,once the skin/fat is broken the pups
will side chew on the exposed bone ,..once it starts getting smaller
I pop the 2 small thin bones out ,the larger bone is snapped back
which gives you a sort of handle,..holding this bone I let the pups
pull/strip the chicken and skin off,then dis-regard the bone,..we
like to offer my wings in one sitting getting them to respect
bones,instead of letting them fill up on full wings,..
hope this helps and best wishes with your new girl.
Stephen.
>

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7.1. Re: My dogs teeth on 3rd day of raw rib bones
Posted by: "Erika" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:55 am ((PST))

Teeth are basically the same in your dogs mouth as they are in your own in many ways. If you have a broken tooth it not only hurts like hell but it will never grow back and will require immedieat dental attention involving an extraction in most cases. A chipped tooth is a different story, most dogs have or will acquire small chips over time and will go on unaffected by them. If your dog does indeed have a BROKEN tooth please take him to the vet and have the problem adressed. RAW feeding can and will improve dental health in the aspects of tartar, breath (bacteria levels), and gum stregnth but no diet can grow back teeth or reverse the growth of cavities. If a cavatie is present it will continue to progress (however fast or slow) untill the tooth has decayed to the root or nerve, a bad break will only speed up this process. Once the nerve of a tooth is exposed to bacteria the death and decay of the tooth occurs along with a nasty and very painful infection. Humans can
interviene in this process on our own teeth with fillings, crowns, root canals, and or implants to replace a tooth. Dogs on the other hand don't usually have the option of such dental procedures.

The best plan of action in doggie dental health is prevention from day one. For those dogs who have already passed that point a good evaluation and then plan of action is best done sooner than later. If you see something that is OBVIOUSLEY not just tartar build up it should be treated. There is hope though for the loose teeth with the raw feeding so keep it up!

Erika :)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (44)
________________________________________________________________________

7.2. Re: My dogs teeth on 3rd day of raw rib bones
Posted by: "Betty" prismkitten@yahoo.com prismkitten
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:55 am ((PST))

Wow, that's good to hear that a loose tooth actually got clean and
tightened up and he won't be losing it. Just what I am hoping for my
dog..but I'll have to wait and see. He seems to be able to chew
anything and while if I touch that tooth it does seem sensitive, it
hasn't hampered him from tackling the raw rib bones.

How were the teeth lost exactly, thru falling out or a dental visit to
have them out?

Thanks!
Prism

>
> Hi,
> I switched my sister's 13 year old Bichon to raw this past summer.
> Prior to this he had serious dragon mouth and gum disease whereby he
> lost 2 incisors. Another incisor was loose but I just checked today
> and it is clean and tight - he won't lose it after all!
> Belinda
>
>
>

Messages in this topic (44)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8. How to post photos?
Posted by: "Betty" prismkitten@yahoo.com prismkitten
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:55 am ((PST))

Hi,

I am wondering how to create a photo album of my dog
as I took some before pics of his teeth and will have
some after pics showing what I am hoping will be a big
improvement with the addition of the raw beef rib
bones and some other teeth cleaning protocols.

How do I do this? I have them as public view on flickr
on yahoo

Thanks,
Prism

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9.1. Re: Hi everyone!
Posted by: "Betty" prismkitten@yahoo.com prismkitten
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:56 am ((PST))

Thank you for that..I will have to wait it out anyway for now but at
least I feel like I'm getting somewhere with being proactive..which I
should have been more of earlier.

Prism

> I wouldn't worry about it right now. It may tighten up on its own or
> it may just come out on its own. Time will tell
>
> Bill Carnes

>

>

Messages in this topic (44)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10.1. Re: Hi everyone!/teeth cleaning meals
Posted by: "Betty" prismkitten@yahoo.com prismkitten
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:56 am ((PST))

Well..I would have to just give him a small hunk of it, because trying
to get back something from him lately is a difficult task:) He is
coveting the rib bones. At least he's letting go when it's bedtime now
unlike his very first one..took it everywhere with him, even his water
dish and put it into his water while he drank, brought it to the
bedroom with him:)He won't bite me, and he lets me take it from him,
but he does growl with intensity! He is not my sweet little dogie
during this transition. If I pick him up he's got the other end
attached to the rib bone and it comes along too..hahahaha..it's kinda
cute..well..not that cute:)
Prism

> You could try a beef or pork roast--with skin is better, but even w/o
> skin it will do some good. Get one that's enough for a few days'
> meals and let him eat some, put it back in the frig, and repeat until
> gone. W
> Laurie
>

Messages in this topic (44)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11.1. What kind of dogs do you have Bill?
Posted by: "Betty" prismkitten@yahoo.com prismkitten
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:56 am ((PST))

I went to your raw feeding 101 and it's nice..answered some questions.
I'm going to try some other types of meat. I am leery about trying
fish..can you tell me if you ever had a dog choke on small bones from
fish? I will try that too once I learn what to start with.

What kind and how many dogs do you have Bill?
Prism

> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>
> Feeding Raw since October 2002

Messages in this topic (44)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12. How many times a week are eggs ok
Posted by: "solblr" solblr@yahoo.com solblr
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:57 am ((PST))

Hi everyone,

I have just given my pups a raw egg each for dinner. They seem fine .
How many times week is it ok to feed eggs ? They are 4 months each -
a Lhasa & a Spaniel

Vanita

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. My Intro
Posted by: "Sandra Yearsley" john.yearsley@bigpond.com mishelties
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:57 am ((PST))

I have been reading the list for a few days, reading files, searching
archieved posts etc and generally getting the info about the list
together!!!

I have 3 dogs, 2 Shelties and a JRT. I am a raw feeder already but
have joined the group to share ideas and perhaps contribute if I feel
I have something worth while to add! Oh, and also, most importantly to
ask questions.

Sandra Yearsley
Western Australia

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14. side benefits
Posted by: "Mary Tinder" mtinder@tinderco.com mmmaryt
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:00 am ((PST))

I brought a new-to-me 2.5 yo GDane home yesterday. This Eagle Pack fed
girl is helping me remember how raw feeding SUBSTANTIALLY lowers both
the quantity and odor of poop. My crew generally does their business
on their own so I don't always notice but it is hard to miss her huge,
yellow, "soft serve" fragrant piles, and piles, and piles... She has
not even been here 24 hours!

Raw feeding has side benefits I've come to take for granted. Going
cold turkey today.
Mary T

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

15a. Re: Another newbie with questions!
Posted by: "noahsmom8497" noahsmom8497@yahoo.com noahsmom8497
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:57 am ((PST))

I've handled raw meat to cook it for my family but then always washed
my hands in warm, soapy water before touching anything else. I guess I
DO have to get that image out of my mind! Thanks for the advice. Keep
it coming! Julie
>

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

16. First rabbit and 3 mo update
Posted by: "laura.wimpey" laura.wimpey@yahoo.com laura.wimpey
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:37 am ((PST))

I just have to post and say that my two kids; Elias (mix) and Maggie
(Llewellin ES), are THRIVING on their RAW diet. Their skin is
gorgeous, their fur is less corse and in better condition, their
teeth gleaming and their eyes big shining deep pools of contentment.
Eli's weight has normalized (we needed him to loose some) and we've
found that happy place of knowing just how much to feed maggie to
keep her energy and weight steady. We've had our share of
frustrations but it has certainly been worth it. Ours isn't a
miracle story, tho my previous sentences may make it sound so - it's
just a story about happy healthy dogs and their happy owners who are
now very keen about all things MEAT.

Saturday we deposited in front of them their very first whole
rabbits - guts intact. Maggie was her usual picky clean self. Elias
was a true carnivore though. I watched him remove 1/3 of his rabbit
and push it over to maggie. So much for being tough parents and not
cutting it up for her! After that he picked his rabbit up and
promptly deposited all the inner contents on the deck whereupon he
sorted them and ate all but the stomach, intestinal tract and
bladder. I was pretty surprised they left it and even more surprised
that in removing it he managed not to bust or puncture any of
the 'guts' (we later had to toss them in the woods where they
attracted a whole squadron of crows; much to the chagrin of our
neighbors).

Thanks for reading!

Laura W., Eli and Maggie

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------