Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12431

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Chicken Allergy
From: nanack909
1b. Re: Chicken Allergy
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: Chicken Allergy
From: carnesbill
1d. Re: Chicken Allergy
From: nanack909
1e. Re: Chicken Allergy
From: judy tallant

2a. Re: Starting to eat
From: Jean
2b. Re: Starting to eat
From: Sandee Lee

3a. Been a long time.
From: Charron
3b. Re: Been a long time.
From: Loraine Jesse

4a. Re: Dehydrated foods
From: homesforallpets
4b. Re: Dehydrated foods
From: costrowski75

5. Angel & Holly's first Raw meal
From: homesforallpets

6a. Re: Gas
From: Sherrel Leininger

7. Happy New Year, Raw and all.
From: Loraine Jesse

8a. New puppy - raw but what else ?
From: michellegallik
8b. Re: New puppy - raw but what else ?
From: Chia
8c. Re: New puppy - raw but what else ?
From: costrowski75
8d. Re: New puppy - raw but what else ?
From: Sandee Lee

9. Teething and bones
From: Loraine Jesse

10a. Re: meal recipes
From: Loraine Jesse

11a. Re: Whole chickens
From: Sherrel Leininger

12a. vets
From: Renate

13a. Re: Little poo question
From: Sherrel Leininger

14a. Types of edible bone
From: adkjoe17
14b. Re: Types of edible bone
From: Sandee Lee

Messages
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1a. Chicken Allergy
Posted by: "nanack909" dblack@cfl.rr.com nanack909
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:25 am ((PST))

My 5 month old GSD has stopped eating any chicken, except when he
knows there will be nothing else to eat all day. He has started
scratching alot in the last couple of weeks but has no sign of fleas,
and I check him everyday. I am suspecting a chicken allergy, even
though I have never believed in this possibility before, mostly
because he will refuse to eat it and he is otherwise a good eater. My
question is how long after eliminating a food, if that is the problem,
will it take for the scratching to stop? This is the 5th day of being
off of chicken and he is still scratching, but not quite as much as
before.
Thanks,
Nancy & GSD Kobe

Messages in this topic (5)
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1b. Re: Chicken Allergy
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:02 am ((PST))

"nanack909" <dblack@...> wrote:
> My
> question is how long after eliminating a food, if that is the
problem,
> will it take for the scratching to stop? This is the 5th day of
being
> off of chicken and he is still scratching, but not quite as much as
> before.
*****
It may take as long as three months to reach a clear conclusion, but
if you're seeing improvement after five days it probably won't take
you 85 more days to figure out if it's chicken that's making him itch.

Once he's itchless, you have several options: Continue avoiding
chicken; feed the chicken you have been feeding to see if the itching
starts up again; change brands and try again; change to a minimally
processed, unenhanced brand.

In the meantime, you might also evaluate his environment for other
potential causes. It's possible a number of marginal annoyances have
conspired to take your guy over the top (or perhaps, push him over
the edge).
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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1c. Re: Chicken Allergy
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:09 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nanack909" <dblack@...> wrote:
>
> My question is how long after eliminating a food, if that is
> the problem, will it take for the scratching to stop?

2 months. I doubt it's chicken but you will know in 2 months.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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1d. Re: Chicken Allergy
Posted by: "nanack909" dblack@cfl.rr.com nanack909
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:37 am ((PST))

>
> -Bill,
Do you think its just a coincidence that my dog stopped eating
chicken around the time he started itching, after more than 2 months
of eating it eagerly? I guess since he doesn't want to eat chicken he
is putting himself on an elimination diet, as I hate to put him
through not letting him eat anything else until he eats the darned
chicken. Too bad I have alot of it in the freezer.
Nancy & GSD Kobe

> I doubt it's chicken but you will know in 2 months.
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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1e. Re: Chicken Allergy
Posted by: "judy tallant" judy@tallant.com judyltallant
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:11 am ((PST))

I have a few food sensitivities myself and went through quite a bit
of testing through elimination and reintroduction. It's very time
consuming to do. The thing I best learned from the experience is to
eat a balanced diet. The dog can develop an allergy to chicken, if
that's all he's been eating. It can work that way with any protein -
both in dogs and in humans.

On Dec 29, 2007, at 10:37 AM, nanack909 wrote:

> Do you think its just a coincidence that my dog stopped eating
> chicken around the time he started itching, after more than 2 months
> of eating it eagerly?

Judy Tallant
Snohomish, Wa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Starting to eat
Posted by: "Jean" iambjl246@yahoo.com iambjl246
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:04 am ((PST))

I am excited to see the results. I was surprised she ate it so easy!
BUT dogs are meat eaters. She is use to having food anytime she wants
but she is a healthy weight. So this is interesting & we will keep
her on raw chicken for a few weeks then introduce something else.Jean

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Jean,
>
> This new food is pretty foreign...and bland! Sounds like she
figured it
> out, but you could warm it a bit and slice into the meat in a few
places to
> give her a starting point. Or feed something easier like bone-in
breasts.
>
> Hot dogs? Yuck! LOL Actually I cut them into tiny, tiny pieces to
> distract a Dane who doesn't like his nails cut...works like a
charm! :)
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "Jean" <iambjl246@...>
>
>
> Today is the first day to feed my Maltese raw. she doesn't eat much
> anyway. Today I gave her a chicken leg (skin removed)and she just
> walked away. later in the evening I cut a piece of the meat off so
she
> could get to the bone. She ate the meat first then started on the
> meatybone. Sure hope to see improvement in her health in a few
weeks!
> I think I know the answer is "no," but are hotdogs ok? Thanks for
all
> of the help! Jean
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: Starting to eat
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:22 am ((PST))

Yes, they are little carnivores, aren't they? No need to feed chicken
exclusively for a few weeks if she is doing well. You can slowly introduce
bits of red meat/organ any time you feel comfortable.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Jean" <iambjl246@yahoo.com>

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Been a long time.
Posted by: "Charron" darklyghtt@yahoo.com darklyghtt
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:04 am ((PST))

Sumo has been on Raw for just about 2 years now and I am very happy
with how he has been doing. He is a no nonsense guy when it comes to
his food. He either wants it or he wraps it up in a towel for later.
I am getting another dog next week and will be making the switch for
her. I am not sure if Sumo is going to be having any food guarding
behaviors but plan on feeding them in different rooms and then
eventually getting their feeding locations closer.

I do have a funny story to tell from this last holliday. I am a
vegetarian and had gone to my family gathering for dinner. They ended
up having lots of leftovers. I got a huge baggie of fruit, A large
container of pasta and a large container of Mashed potatoes, corn and
broccoli. They gave me a large pan of turkey with no bones, gravy and
some broccoli. I got home and started to unload the car. Sumo, very
carefully pulled out the pan, without spilling or disturbing the other
containers on top of it, took it to the living room to take the lid
off and cleaned it out. I did not notice this till I had finished
unloading the car. By that time the pan was practically empty. He
knew it was for him. But yes, that is my funny story.

Take care all and have a wonderful new year!
Charron

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Been a long time.
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:28 am ((PST))

Charron,
Love your Xmas leftover story.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

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Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Dehydrated foods
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:47 am ((PST))

My dogs will not eat raw chicken liver otherwise but they beg for the
dried stuff. It is an easy way to get the liver into them.
>
> Tracy

When you dehydrate the livers, do you slices them or anything before
drying? Or do you leave them whole? Do you dry in a dehydrator or
with your oven?

Kathy in MO
Angel & Holly - dogs Oreo & Turquoise - cats

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: Dehydrated foods
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:18 am ((PST))

ADMIN/It appears some people are not paying attention. Please pay
attention! The Rawfeeding List is NOT (that's N-O-T) the place for how-
to dehydrate, cook or otherwise process any food. All such questions
and answers can be posted to RawChat. All such questions and answers
posted to Rawfeeding will be deleted.
Thank you.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (3)
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5. Angel & Holly's first Raw meal
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:48 am ((PST))

Ok I took the plunge. Yesterday I gave them wingettes and a little
ground chicken I had gotten on sale. I had gotten two brands' chicken
wingettes and they were different. One brand's idea of wingette was
the first joint of the wing. More like wing tips to me. The other
brand's had the whole wing, the shoulder and what looked like a bit of
the back. So I gave each 1 big one and 1 little one and a bit of the
ground to be sure they had enough.

They did not fight over it, I was afraid they might. Holly ate both
the tips and all the ground. Angel ate both the larger peices. Was
it ok for me to let them decide who got what? Or should I feed them
seperately? Both chewed very well! I have to say though that Holly
wouldn't touch it until she saw Angel eating. I am so proud of my lil
carnies!

Kathy in MO
Angel & Holly - dogs Ore & Turquoise - cats

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: Gas
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:28 am ((PST))

After I started with 2 raw feedings a day Daisy would have the same problem. But it seems to be much better now. And we have only been completely raw feeding for less than 2 weeks.

Sherrel, Daisy and Lilly

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7. Happy New Year, Raw and all.
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:28 am ((PST))

I just wanted to wish everyone a very Happy New Year. Thank-you for all of your patience and help, my dogs love you all. The excitement from feeding this way is really contagious, yesterday my Husband phoned around meat plants to find deals on meat and managed to find sow belly's that were in the freezer too long to be sold to Humans, so off we went to pick up seven cases, our freezers are packed with dog food, now we have to get some for us <grin>
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com
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8a. New puppy - raw but what else ?
Posted by: "michellegallik" michelle@hdinger.com michellegallik
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:28 am ((PST))

Hi. I am a newbie still searching the sites for all the info - but SO
much to read thru. Hoping for a couple of answers from the veterans.
I am already a raw food believer but wondered what else a pup might
need. I have a 10 week old standard poodle that I have weaned off of
the kibble that the breeder had her on. I am using a combo of meats -
some raw from an organic farm w/organ meats and I am trying tubes of
Bravo for some convenience. I have been adding cooked sweet potato,
alittle raw grated carrot or squash and green beans. She came with a
powdered vitamin/enzyme and norwegian kelp.

She has turned into a chow hound in the last couple of days - I think
when you give up carbs from kibble you are extra hungry. I know as I
don't eat any grains or sugars (curing myself of Crohn's disease) and I
was ravenous when I made the switch.

Thanks for your help.

Michelle and puppy Sabrina

Messages in this topic (4)
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8b. Re: New puppy - raw but what else ?
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:40 am ((PST))

#### not much to grasp if you just follow nature and what a dog is 'meant'
to consume, as if in nature.

To keep your pup satisfied and healthy, NO vegetables, unless as the
occasional treat. Carnivores derive ALL the nutrition they require from the
flesh of animals that eat vegetation, simple as that. Mother Nature did NOT
give wolves/dogs, the physiology to digest carbs so obviously, no need to
have it on the menu. It also can contribute to health issues since all
those silly root veggies you mentioned are high sugar. NO veggies..focus on
luscious meats, organs, fish, eggs...

Shop around and find deals on WHOLE chickens, lop into half, then quarters
and feed these HUGE pieces to your pup three times per day until gone.
After a week or two, introduce a small amount of organs and eventually,
another protein source. You'll drop down the three times per day feedings
to two times probably by 4-5 months? Others whom have raised young pups
could chime in here.

Feeding HUGE pieces not only will probably naturally encourage those baby
teeth to come out on their own when it is time, but it will also tire your
puppy out which is a wonderful thing. ;-)) Her appetite will normalize
very soon!

Chia & Ricco ( no vaccines, no chemicals..real food...always...)

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8c. Re: New puppy - raw but what else ?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:01 am ((PST))

"michellegallik" <michelle@...> wrote:
>> I am already a raw food believer but wondered what else a pup
might
> need.
*****
Dogs are wolves in designer clothes. You need only feed them as
wolves would eat. Raw meat--most of the menu. Raw organs--not much
of the menu at all. Raw edible bones--not much of the menu at all,
perhaps a bit more than organs, maybe.

Everything is in there. Whether you feed free range and grassfed or
you feed store bought and paid for, all you need assemble are meat,
organs and edible bones. If you want to supplement with fish body
oil to add omega 3 fatty acids, you certainly can. But there are
many who do not and are quite utterly satisfied with their dogs'
health and well-being.

I have been adding cooked sweet potato,
> alittle raw grated carrot or squash and green beans. She came with
a
> powdered vitamin/enzyme and norwegian kelp.
*****
Well you can and should stop. These offer nothing except unnecessary
carbs. Your lovely puppy does not need supplemental carbs. Not
ever. Not for nutrition, not for stool stabilization, not for fun,
not to fill an empty belly, not as belt and suspenders to "fix" any
deficiencies of a species appropriate diet.

I doubt she needs enzymes (regardless of purpose) and she certainly
doesn't need supplemental vitamins and kelp. These are the support
systems of a person unclear on the concept. I suggest your pup's
breeder had the best of intentions but the wrong actions.

I recommend you join Yahoogroups in order to browse the rawfeeding
list archives. Also check out:
http://rawfed.com
http://rawfeddogs.net
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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8d. Re: New puppy - raw but what else ?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:12 am ((PST))

Hi Michelle,

Stick with meat, bones and organs from a variety of critters and everything
will be covered. No need for vitamins, enzymes and certainly not kelp
(which can inhibit thyroid function). You are still feeding quite a bit of
carbs...sweet starchy carbs...which are not going to satisfy and may be the
reason she is wanting more of it (speaking from experience being a carb
addict <g>)!

Get rid of the Bravo and the veggies and supplements, just feed some nice
large chunks of meat, a little bone and organs. Easy! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "michellegallik" <michelle@hdinger.com>

Messages in this topic (4)
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9. Teething and bones
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:28 am ((PST))

I do have a question. My pups are 4 months and have been fed twice a day since about 12 wks. In the morning they have chicken or, Turkey pieces and the evening usually beef, pork or, heart with varies organ pieces (liver, kidney) added a few times a week, the odd time they will get eggs or, canned fish. They are teething like mad now so I have been offering them pork necks, which they are munching down big time. Will they be okay with this additional bone? Is it possible that they would need additional bone during the teething stage? They are a large breed, so I want to make sure I am not messing up here.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com
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10a. Re: meal recipes
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:29 am ((PST))

Patsy,
No dumb questions we are all learning. No chicken is not considered a red meat, it tends to be a staple because it is much cheaper to purchase however, you do need to feed more muscel meat such as beef,heart and pork. I had a hard time with pork being a red meat <grin>
Loraine Jesse
www.rothburgrottweilers.com
"This may be a dumb question, but a vegan must ask ;-) Is raw chickenconsidered red meat? I'm thinking not, but chicken is the number oneingredient for new rawbies, so I'm a wonderin'.thanks,Patsy"

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Messages in this topic (12)
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11a. Re: Whole chickens
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:53 am ((PST))

Hi Yassy
This is being answered a week later. I have had a house full of people for christmas time and I was off the list for a few days and just now getting back. But I have also caught a cold or flu today. :-(

Hi.Wow.... Isn't that very time-consuming?
Yep, I was up to 1 whole afternoon a week cooking for these two. When I was just cooking for 1 miniature pinscher it was not a problem. Even when I was cooking for one dobe it was not really much of a problem but cooking for 2 dobes, very active dogs, it became a little much. Raw feeding is much easier.
Barf is the first one I read about
I did read about barf and I have a pitcarn book and I have a Wendy Volhard book but I found them complecated. And Pitcarn still fed lots of cooked oatmeal. Volhard did too but hers was even more complex because certian things had to be fed on certian days and if your dog has a low thyroid it must have cooked carbs once a week. Daisy is low thyroid but I think I won't give the cooked part until after her next bloodwork for her thyriod. She does get a pill 2xs a day for low thyroid.

*****I guess I need to cut the chickens up. Cut the chickens up into
pieces because I feed twice a day.

But make sure you don't cut the chicken to 1 inch chunk
OH no I want them to chew up their food. I cut it into peices like backs, quarters and wings. Mostly they still get chicken leg quarters, I buy bags of quarters. I have added liver a couple of times in small amounts. So far so good!!

You know what? you can start both dog from 2lb daily intake,and feed 1lb each time you feed.THat would be easier for you. THen,if your dog started chunky head,then,you feed less would be good,
Yep I have already deceided that too. I did feed the 3% and I could tell after a couple of days that they were going light so I have upped it. I already don't weight it I just throw it out.

Just remember,one thing new at a time and move on to the other protin source after your dog did well on the protin you fed.And baby step is the key.Be patient.

I went to a local butcher and bought some meat beef and pork liver, pork hearts. pork tongues. But it seems expensive

pork heart 1.09 a lbs I bought 2.
pork tongues 1.19 I bought 4
beef liver 1.49 I bought 1 whole.
pork liver .89 I bought 6.
total cost 34.13 about 30 lbs
And they don't give away pig/cows lower legs or any other parts.
Sherrel, Daisy and Lilly

Messages in this topic (10)
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12a. vets
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:53 am ((PST))

I've been raw feeding three months now. Took Russell to the vet today (he
was a rescue with epilepsy and in poor condition). The vet was amazed. She
said his condition was absolutely perfect! I told her I was raw feeding and
I got a lecture (never did know when to keep my mouth shut)

She said there are a study that came out about 2 years ago proving that raw
fed dogs shed salmonella in their pooh, but kibble fed dogs don't. And she
told me to be very very careful and not to use my dogs as therapy dogs
cause they can be dangerous to ill people. I said why should I be more
concerned about salmonella than ecoli and got another lectureLOL
Has anyone heard of this study, or have any idea why this could be?
--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

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Messages in this topic (3)
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13a. Re: Little poo question
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:53 am ((PST))

LOL Chris that is what I actually meant. OK I quess I did not say it well.
Sherrel

Sherrel Leininger <meawolf50@. ..> wrote:
I mean if they are too dry add come grease.
*****
I think, Sherrel, that grease would be less appropriate than simply
adding fattier--and raw--food. Even a clump of raw fat would be better
than grease.
Chris O

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14a. Types of edible bone
Posted by: "adkjoe17" j2dope17@yahoo.com adkjoe17
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:53 am ((PST))

What are some other types of edible bones besides chicken. Most of
the beef bones are too hard to eat and lamb ribs are pretty expensive.
What other ways can I ad bone to red meat? I use chicken mostly but
would like to find another source of bone.

Joe

Messages in this topic (2)
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14b. Re: Types of edible bone
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:01 am ((PST))

You probably don't need to add bone if you are feeding mostly chicken. But
pork and fish would be good sources if necessary.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "adkjoe17" <j2dope17@yahoo.com>

Messages in this topic (2)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Saturday, December 29, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12431

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