[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12426

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. dry nose - update & thanks for the help!
From: Karen Ditton

2a. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
From: aimnhi49
2b. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
From: ginny wilken
2c. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
From: Alexis
2d. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
From: Alexis
2e. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
From: costrowski75

3a. Bones causing perforated intestines
From: Denise Farley
3b. Bones causing perforated intestines
From: Monica Hughes
3c. Re: Bones causing perforated intestines
From: Amy Tracy
3d. Bones causing perforated intestines
From: costrowski75
3e. Bones causing perforated intestines
From: katkellm

4a. New to this - what do you think?
From: Monica Hughes

5a. Re: GI Normous Dogs
From: Ania Tysarczyk
5b. Re: GI Normous Dogs
From: Sandee Lee

6a. New here & ready to start
From: Monica Hughes

7a. Do you guys worry
From: cutensexyb89
7b. Re: Do you guys worry
From: Sandee Lee
7c. Re: Do you guys worry
From: Karen Swanay
7d. Re: Do you guys worry
From: Heather

8a. Re: Looking to switch, but worried about Chicken protein sensitivity
From: carnesbill
8b. Re: Looking to switch, but worried about Chicken protein sensitivity
From: Sandee Lee

9a. Re: ichy skin!
From: Yasuko herron

10a. How much poop should I expect?
From: Monica Hughes
10b. Re: How much poop should I expect?
From: Laurie Swanson

11. Grant is Sick: Diagnosis Pancreatitis
From: redraider_alh

Messages
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1a. dry nose - update & thanks for the help!
Posted by: "Karen Ditton" karenditton@urassociation.com karenditton
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:29 pm ((PST))

Wow. it's been only 4 days since I wrote about my dog's dry nose. It is
tremendously improved!

All I did was eliminate the vitamin A supplement (Casey - I agree. I wasn't
buying the deficiency anymore either, and I'm sure he's getting plenty in
the diet) and I did put some all-natural lip moisturizer on it. (Thanks
Natalie for that tip!) Almost all of the dry crumbles have sloughed off and
underneath is a remarkably healthy looking nose! It's really hard to
believe the change I've seen in such a short time!!! I'm also so frustrated
that when I asked that vet about it years ago that he just brushed it off as
"some dogs are like that" and so I did nothing for so long.

I'm not sure what did the trick. either putting a little moisturizer on it
has really helped, or the raw diet was doing it's magic and the reason it
looked dryer a few days ago was that it was just about to slough all that
old dry stuff off anyway.

I can't express my thanks enough to the great members on this list!!! I've
only been here a little less than a month and I've already seen you answer
so many of the same questions over and over! I think I can recite 80% meat,
10% bone, 10% organ (about half of that liver) and feed approx. 2-3% of your
dog's ideal mature weight (could be more or less depending on your dog) in
my sleep! You guys give so generously to each new member on this list!!!
My dogs, and I'm sure countless others, thank you!!!!

Karen (raw feeding for 2 weeks, 2 days and never going back!!!)

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Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
Posted by: "aimnhi49" linrho@gmail.com aimnhi49
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:29 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Alexis" <alexis78@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone heard about the possibility of rawfeeding causing a
> reduction in allergic reactions by humans to dogs/cats.

I don't post very often but I feel I have something to add to this
topic. After extensive allergy testing I found out I was highly
allergic to cats and advised never to own cats. We gradually ended
up adding indoor kibble-fed cats to our family and I was miserable.
Not only did our cats bother me, but also anyone else's. Then about
a year ago I began to research raw feeding and gradually switched
all cats to raw diet. I am no longer bothered by any allergic
symptoms!! My 8 mo kitten snuggles my neck and one sleeps at the
foot of my bed. We've since also added a Newf pup to our fur
family. And no allergic symptoms from any of my raw-fed fur
family. I do, however, have allergic symptoms when I visit homes of
k***e fed pets. Interesting! That's my allergy experience and I'm
totally convinced that there is definitely a connection between
rawfeeding and reduction in allergic symptoms.

Linda in NW Oregon

Messages in this topic (10)
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2b. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:23 pm ((PST))

On Dec 27, 2007, at 11:50 AM, Alexis wrote:

> Has anyone heard about the possibility of rawfeeding causing a
> reduction in allergic reactions by humans to dogs/cats. My boyfriend
> has become increasingly allergic to my 75lb hound/husky mix and I've
> started him on Raw as of about a month ago from the recommendation of
> the people at our pet store.

Yes, feeding your boyfriend raw will help his allergies, and every
other issue he has brewing. That's the nice thing about raw: everyone
in the house can share:)

ginny and Tomo, "She meant that..."

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2c. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
Posted by: "Alexis" alexis78@gmail.com tiger_girl78
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:55 pm ((PST))

>I seriously doubt there is anything in raw food
> that would cause allergies to someone who is neither eating nor
> handling the meat.
>
> Sounds like another bad rap for raw.

I just want to clarify that the increased allergic reaction to the dog
dander has been building over the past year and a half and the switch
to raw-feeding was only a month ago. The suggestion to go Raw was at
the recommendation of the pet store personnel. So...in this case, Raw
is getting a good rap.

No way to tell yet if it's having a positive effect on the allergies
but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Please continue with the input if
you know this to be a helpful solution. Thanks for the feedback!

-Alexis (& Cassius)

Messages in this topic (10)
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2d. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
Posted by: "Alexis" alexis78@gmail.com tiger_girl78
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:06 pm ((PST))

> Yes, feeding your boyfriend raw will help his allergies, and every
> other issue he has brewing. That's the nice thing about raw:
everyone
> in the house can share:)
>
>

HAHA! point taken! :)

Alexis (& Cassius & the perpetually vomimting boyfriend)

Messages in this topic (10)
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2e. Re: Rawfeeding and human allergies to dogs?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:47 pm ((PST))

"Alexis" <alexis78@...> wrote:
> I just want to clarify that the increased allergic reaction to the
dog
> dander has been building over the past year and a half and the switch
> to raw-feeding was only a month ago. The suggestion to go Raw was at
> the recommendation of the pet store personnel. So...in this case,
Raw
> is getting a good rap.
*****
On their part, yes. That rumor and innuendo would suggest raw food
increases the allergic response is the bad rap.

A healthy raw fed dog will continue to shed hair because shedding is
normal. And a healthy raw fed dog will continue to slough off dead
skin because that too is normal. Whether these processes affect your
BF more or less is the question, hey? My guess is there's more going
on with BF than with your dog...if your dog continues to improve in all
regards and the BF continues with his busted immune system, what will
you do? Hmmm.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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3a. Bones causing perforated intestines
Posted by: "Denise Farley" desheep59@northmo.net desheep59
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:41 pm ((PST))

Bones by themselves, without meat, fat, skin, whatever, is, there is little
doubt in my mind, what caused the problem. I did the same thing and no
problems until...one day and a dog that was ravenous and she chewed through
the bone so fast that the pieces balled up in her intestines causing not
only damage to the intestinal wall but a blockage as well. I did not feed
bones again.

While doing the research for the rawfeeding - which works wonderfully on my
10 year old with a heart problem for teeth cleaning - I hesitated and
hesitated but finally feed bones surrounded by meat and fat and whatever
else comes naturally on them. Very. Meaty. Bones. No recreational bones -
unless the beasties scrounge them up out of the field (I have sheep) and
then they are not gnawed on to extinction to the exclusion of all else.
Yes, I still have the 'white' poo sometimes that is associated with bone
eating, but have never had a problem since I quit the 'recreational bones'.

And that's my story.

Denise

On Dec 27, 2007 3:07 PM, cleone4100 <cleone4100@aol.com> wrote:

I was speaking with my new boss about feeding my dogs raw (which they
are doing wonderfully on) and he told me he had a springer spaniel
which died from eating bones. He fed her kibble and periodically gave
her large, raw beef bones for fun. She began having difficulty
eliminating and then one day began hemorraging and she died on the way
to the vets. The vet performed the autopsy and told him the bone shards
had perforated her bowels over time and not to feed bones under any
circumstances. I have only been giving my dogs chicken and pork since
that is what's affordable, along with beef heart and liver when I can
get it. Does anyone know what could have caused this to happen? Was it
just the fact that she was on kibble, and the bone was too much? Or
maybe the beef bones are the culprit?? Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks, Carey and the bloodhounds

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Messages in this topic (9)
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3b. Bones causing perforated intestines
Posted by: "Monica Hughes" monicabeth10@yahoo.com monicabeth10
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:41 pm ((PST))

Dear Carey,

I wouldn't feed large weight bearing beef bones. There are all sorts of problems with those types of bones. Two years ago, my lab found a cross sectional marrow bone in my yard (shared with four apartments) that was likely bought at a pet store, or that someone threw into my yard after cooking a ham. I am not sure if it was beef or a ham bone. It also may have been cooked. Anyway, he cracked it in half before I could get to him, swallowed half of it, and it got stuck in his esophagus. The vet told me if they could push the bone into the stomach the acid would dissolve it. They couldn't dislodge it and I had to put him down.

I tend to agree with the advice given by others here, though I'm very new to raw feeding and this list: recreational bones are wreck bones.

I can't give any opinion on beef rib bones, but I'm sure other members are more knowledgable in that arena.

Monica

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (9)
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3c. Re: Bones causing perforated intestines
Posted by: "Amy Tracy" amypatriciatracy@gmail.com rosiesmomlovesrosie
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:27 pm ((PST))

EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.

oh, recreational bones, huh? are the knuckle bones with all of the
googlies attached from petco a "no no"? and what about rawhide? also,
one of her favorite treats as I go off to work in the A.M. is a peanut
butter filled kong (all natural, of course). is that okay?? she also
gets bully sticks and beef trachea from bestbullysticks.com. how do
you guys feel about my these? Amy and Rosie

Messages in this topic (9)
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3d. Bones causing perforated intestines
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:59 pm ((PST))

"Amy Tracy" <amypatriciatracy@...> wrote:
are the knuckle bones with all of the
> googlies attached from petco a "no no"
*****
Yes, yes, they are a no no. Not only are they the very sort of bone
that breaks teeth, the Petco version is cooked and heaven knows where
the bones came from. Bad altogether.

and what about rawhide?
*****
Source is also questionable, as is processing technique. Additionally,
a significant problem with rawhide is how easily a dog can rip off
sodden hunks that can get stuck going down or go down then swell up. I
stopped using rawhide chews years and years ago, even before a dear
friend lost a wonderful dog to an unsupervised rawhide choking
incident. No, no rawhide chews.

also,
> one of her favorite treats as I go off to work in the A.M. is a peanut
> butter filled kong (all natural, of course). is that okay??
*****
This sounds awfully fattening and as Ginny wrote recently (here I
believe though perhaps on RawChat) peanuts are legumes which are not
healthy for man or dog. I am a big fan of Kongs but I've rarely
stuffed them with any more than a dozen or so treaty bits. Personally,
I vote no on Kongs stuffed with peanut butter.

she also
> gets bully sticks and beef trachea from bestbullysticks.com. how do
> you guys feel about my these?
*****
I think these are more like it!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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3e. Bones causing perforated intestines
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:29 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Amy Tracy" <amypatriciatracy@...>
wrote:
> oh, recreational bones, huh? are the knuckle bones with all of the
> googlies attached from petco a "no no"?

Hi Amy,

Yes, they are a big NO.

> and what about rawhide?
I don't feed raw hides. I think my dogs get all the chewing action
they need from their raw food meals. Raw hide are supposedly
preserved with natural stuff, but natural to me is real meat and
bones, no preservatives or additives.

>also,
> one of her favorite treats as I go off to work in the A.M. is a
peanut > butter filled kong (all natural, of course). is that okay??

The kong is certainly ok, but i would ditch the peanut butter and try
freezing the kong with ground meat inside. Works good and is
healthier for a dog since peanut butter couldn't really be called
species appropriate food.

she also
> gets bully sticks and beef trachea from bestbullysticks.com. how do
> you guys feel about my these?

Finally, i can give you a 2 thumbs up. KathyM

Messages in this topic (9)
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4a. New to this - what do you think?
Posted by: "Monica Hughes" monicabeth10@yahoo.com monicabeth10
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:41 pm ((PST))

Oh boy can I sympathize. I found that getting my cat on raw food took months. I recommend offering very small portions of many different types of foods. After almost 9 months, my 8 year old cat still likes the food cut into golf ball sized pieces. She just won't eat anything larger than that yet. I'm working upwards in size. She was fed kibble for 8 years, and transitioning cats can be more difficult than transitioning dogs. My cat would still prefer kibble than raw, but she eats raw heartily now, and I don't offer kibble at all.

Offer as many types of food as you can find. This is key. You may find, for instance, that your cats will eat chicken liver one day but not the next. Chicken meat on bone one day, but not the next. Chicken heart one day, not the next. At first, my cat would NOT eat chicken meat, and that's all I was offering for weeks. Then, one day I set down a quail wing. BINGO! It was gone within minutes, bone and all. She'd never eaten bone before, or quail, and here she was scarfing it down. Then soon I was buying pheasant because I couldn't find quail. Then I got her to eat duck, which she loved. Now that she's used to raw meat, she eats all types of fowl, and fish. I have been able to transition her to mostly chicken and duck, which are a whole lot cheaper than pheasant. Sheesh!

Go buy a chicken and a duck and a fish (a rabbit if you can find one) and cut them all up in small pieces and freeze them in baggies. Offer a little bit each day. I really bet that will do the trick.

Good luck and have fun. It WILL work eventually. Stick at it.

Monica

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. Re: GI Normous Dogs
Posted by: "Ania Tysarczyk" AniaJRT@sbcglobal.net aniajrt
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:41 pm ((PST))

Hi Sandee,

I've had her thyroid tested, but if it can be caused by stress then
it could have very well been stress. She had a big, painful slab
fracture in her back tooth at the time. Thanks for the insight. That
explains why Dr. Dodds didn't seem too concerned with it.

Do you feed a lot of fat to your danes?

Ania

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Ania,
>
> A heavy dog with high cholesterol shouts hypothyroidism! Elevated
> cholesterol in the blood can be caused by stress, exercise or a
recent
> meal....and various other diseases, rather than diet.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang

Messages in this topic (12)
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5b. Re: GI Normous Dogs
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:45 pm ((PST))

Hi Ania,

OK...glad you have had her tested for thyroid.

I would imagine I do feed a fair amount of fat...I feed a lot of red meat
and don't trim anything.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Ania Tysarczyk" <AniaJRT@sbcglobal.net>

I've had her thyroid tested, but if it can be caused by stress then
it could have very well been stress. She had a big, painful slab
fracture in her back tooth at the time. Thanks for the insight. That
explains why Dr. Dodds didn't seem too concerned with it.

Do you feed a lot of fat to your danes?

Messages in this topic (12)
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6a. New here & ready to start
Posted by: "Monica Hughes" monicabeth10@yahoo.com monicabeth10
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:41 pm ((PST))

Hi Jean. I had a horribly allergic dog for years. He was not just allergic to grains, he was allergic to many meats as well. Dogs being allergic to some meats is not a myth. It's not as common as vets would want us to believe -- they commonly pin the blame on chicken, beef, etc. so they can you to buy crazy kibble diets like sweet potato and fish, or kibbled kangaroo. But it does happen. My dog had terrible inhalant allergies and food allergies. Often, it's a consequence of poor breeding.

I would say try chicken or turkey and see how it goes. If the itchiness does not subside after several months, try another meat. If it does subside, that's awesome! But if it does not, eventually you may need to move to a meat the dog has never had, like rabbit, venison, etc. I found that my dog was allergic to practically every meat except fish. Will all of the elimination diets I tried, it took me 8 years to figure all of this out. His inhalant allergies were still very bad, but I was able to significantly decrease the amount of prednisone over time.

Monica

---------------------------------
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7a. Do you guys worry
Posted by: "cutensexyb89" cutensexyb89@yahoo.com cutensexyb89
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:28 pm ((PST))

About Salmonella or e. coli?
Not the dogs, but in humans?

My dogs rip apart raw meat with their mouth and paws and then run
inside and step on the furniture, and lick people. One of my dogs
puked up raw egg on the bed. (she got overly excited)

Is this something to be concerned about?

Also they have been doing good eating just bone and chicken, I want to
try some beef, besides ribs what are some good starting meats? And
when should I introduce organs?

Madie

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: Do you guys worry
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:36 pm ((PST))

Nope...no more worries than when they were fed kibble. Those bacteria are
everywhere, in the stool of healthy dogs and humans regardless of diet.
Before raw they licked their own and other butts <g>, ate gross things they
picked up out and about....raw is quite safe! :))

You can add little bits of organs and small amounts of some new protein to
the chicken meal any time. Beef brisket, heart, cheeks...anything pork,
lamb, fish, turkey...whatever you have available. If you feed beef ribs you
need to add meat and remove bones once they are stripped.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "cutensexyb89" <cutensexyb89@yahoo.com>

About Salmonella or e. coli?
Not the dogs, but in humans?

My dogs rip apart raw meat with their mouth and paws and then run
inside and step on the furniture, and lick people. One of my dogs
puked up raw egg on the bed. (she got overly excited)

Is this something to be concerned about?

Also they have been doing good eating just bone and chicken, I want to
try some beef, besides ribs what are some good starting meats? And
when should I introduce organs?

Messages in this topic (4)
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7c. Re: Do you guys worry
Posted by: "Karen Swanay" luvbullbreeds@gmail.com kswanay1111
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:02 pm ((PST))

I don't. I generally wait about 1 hour before engaging in face
licking...or rather allowing them to lick my face but other than that I
don't. I've been raw feeding about 7-8 yrs now, and I'm immune compromised
and have never been sick. IMO the dangers of food borne illness is
overstated. If you have normal cleaning practices you should be fine.

Karen

On Dec 27, 2007 8:47 PM, cutensexyb89 <cutensexyb89@yahoo.com> wrote:
> About Salmonella or e. coli?
> Not the dogs, but in humans?
--
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."
LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
LID 8/23/07
LOA 11/9/07
TA 12/6/07
CA 01/14/08 @ 10:30am
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~

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7d. Re: Do you guys worry
Posted by: "Heather" newbeginnings06@gmail.com malignstar
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:03 pm ((PST))

Salmonella and e. coli are EVERYWHERE. You'll track nastier stuff in
the house from the bottoms of your shoes than what's on raw meat. I've
actually handled raw meat and forgot to wash my hands and handled my
own food many , many times without ever getting sick. Ironically the
only time I got sick was eating a VEGETARIAN burrito from a
restuarant. Oh, and my dog licks on me all the time (except my face
because I hate that) and I've never gotten sick. I'm pretty sure a
dogs saliva takes care of the bacteria from meat.

About the beef, I have only had success feeding ox tails. They are
pretty meaty and have the most edible bone I can find.

Heather

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8a. Re: Looking to switch, but worried about Chicken protein sensitivity
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:02 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ekendahl" <robert@...> wrote:
>
> I assume chicken backs are used mostly for the price?

They are used in the early stages of the diet because they are
boney. Bone is a constipator and eating a lot of bone in the
beginning greatly decreases if not totally eliminates the chances of
diarrhea.

Later in the diet, its mostly for price. I can buy chicken backs
for 25 cents/lb. By buying part of the diet at that price means I
can spend $2-$3/lb for good stuff and still keep feeding bills
reasonable.

> *** Am I missing anything? ***

I'm sure you will think of something after you get started but it
sounds like you have planned it out very well.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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8b. Re: Looking to switch, but worried about Chicken protein sensitivity
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:06 pm ((PST))

No need to wait until you have a freezer. Go down to your market and buy a
few whole chickens, cut them in quarters and feed dogs! Easy! :) By the
time they eat a few of those, they will be ready for another protein source.

I'm not certain about Mayflower...you will have to do some price checking.
You may just find you can get as good or better prices in your local markets
if you watch for sales. For instance, this week at my local Safeway whole
chickens are .69/lb. and pork roasts .99/lb...and most people get them far
cheaper but I am in a remote location and for me that's *good*! :)

Nothing special about chicken backs other than the price...they are far too
bony and by the time you buy extra meat to add to them, your savings has
gone down the drain.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "ekendahl" <robert@ekendahl.org>

So here is my plan, once I get a chest freezer...

For Newton my 3+ year old Shepherd, currently 99lbs and probably
ideally weighing around 90 -95 lbs, I will feed around 1.8+ lbs of
chicken-backs/day for the first week or so I will then expand into
other forms of protein.

For his "brother" Darwin, 15 months, 65 lbs and very active, I will
feed a little less then 1.8 lbs as I think his targeted final weight
"should" be 85-90 lbs as he's slighty smaller then his brother.

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9a. Re: ichy skin!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:04 pm ((PST))

>I dont know what other kind of bones I can give him.

When I read on puppy feeding,they seem to crush bone with hummer a little so that the pup can eat it without any prob. I am not sure how long they do though.I still have not learnt on that yet. Myself does not have small dog or puppy so,I do nt have experience doing so.

However, I think principal is give more meat than bone. Bone is around 10- 15%. of course each dog has different reaction to different thing so,your dog may may not need more bone and may may not need less bone etc.You need to figure out how much bone work for your dog.

But when your dog has loose stool,generally,giving more bone help and if that did not help,skin off the meat and add the skin back in after you get nice poo.

How long have you been on raw feeding?

You wrote something like you fed red meat here and there but if you were just starting out and if you suddenly added red meat here and there,that might have been a prob of loose stool. When I started out,I generally took 1 week on one protin and then,move on to the other. Like when I fed chicken I spent about 4-5 days and she had nice poo so,I moved on to adding organ to chickenb and stayed on it a while and then,moved on to Beef. When beef,I spent probably 3 days each on boneless meat,heart,and tongue and some is mixed with Neck and Rib.After she went through all protins source I wanted to introduce,I started mixed and match thing like i do now. Like today,she had Turkey,Turkey liver,and Beef heart.

and I try not to feed too much poultry now but when I started out,I did not care about that because primary thing at that time was to let her getting used to each protin and digest well.

I recommend that you wait on fish oil and feed chicken until your dog gets digest it well on it and then,move on to beef or pork or lamb or something else and see if it helps.If not,try adding fish oil to meal.If you were feeding chicken quite long,it is possible that since poultry is high in omega 6,the dog needed more omega 3 in diet. Or chicken you got was enhanced someway and that may triggered loose poo or itchness.Try reading the label.Small letters. It should say solution or enhancement if they did and if not,it should say retaining water x% in it.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (7)
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10a. How much poop should I expect?
Posted by: "Monica Hughes" monicabeth10@yahoo.com monicabeth10
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:29 pm ((PST))

Hi folks --

I've been feeding my new dog (shepherd collie mix?, adopted from a shelter) a raw diet for about two weeks now. Whole turkeys, chicken thighs, some organs. She loves it, but has had diarrhea off and on since I got her. Unfortunately, I found out yesterday that she has giardia, which is rampant in our area. (I didn't tell the vet about the raw diet as I was afraid they'd blame it on that and I knew the problem was deeper than that.)

Once the medication starts to work, I expect her stools to decrease in number and size. But I guess I'm just wondering what to expect exactly, because she has never relieved herself very quickly on a walk, even with the diarrhea problem.

So, how often do your dogs poop? Once a day? More than that? Less than that? Just curious. I'm very familiar with the infrequent small stools in my raw fed cat, but I'm just not used to seeing it in a dog. Today she did not poop all day.

Monica

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Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: How much poop should I expect?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:12 pm ((PST))

Hi Monica,

Here's the link to a recent post I wrote about this:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/149604

Let us know if you have more questions.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Monica Hughes <monicabeth10@...>
wrote:
> So, how often do your dogs poop? Once a day? More than that? Less
than that? Just curious. I'm very familiar with the infrequent small
stools in my raw fed cat, but I'm just not used to seeing it in a dog.
Today she did not poop all day.

Messages in this topic (2)
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11. Grant is Sick: Diagnosis Pancreatitis
Posted by: "redraider_alh" redraider_alh@yahoo.com redraider_alh
Date: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:12 pm ((PST))

Hello all,

It has been a while since I have posted or checked the groups discussions. I logged back
on today and searched the archives for information on pancreatitis.

I am out of town through the New Year. My pet sitter (also our vet tech) called yesterday
when Grant wouldn't eat, had diarrhea and was lethargic. We agreed to assess him this
morning. She took him in when he was worse this morning w/ vomiting, diarrhea,
lethargy and excessive thirst. After exam, blood work, etc. he was diagnosed with
pancreatitis. (No underlying diabetes, etc)

Grant is a 92 lb, 2 yo, Bouvier and has been raw fed for the last year since I've had him.
No previous illness history other than a brief, "lethargic, not himself" bout back in May
when we weren't able to find anything clinically wrong. He is fed raw meaty bones such as
Ckn Qtrs, duck frames, turkey, lamb, goat, etc. The dogs have been eating more ckn qtrs
than usual as I've been traveling quite a bit with the holidays and they are easy for the
sitter to feed.

So...the dilemma now--In the past, the staff at the clinic were unable to argue with our
RAW feeding since my dogs are healthy, etc. Now, I'm being told he'll more than likely
need special "kibble" food and that our RAW feeding is to blame since the bacteria on the
food is what more than likely caused the overgrowth of the enzymes in the pancreas. In
addition, the fat content of the raw feeding will more than likely cause problems in the
future now that we have "pancreatic history."

Now what? Anyone else with 'pancreatic' canine kids? And what are the truths to the
whole RAW/pancreatic issues?

Thank you in advance for your help!

Abbey & the canine kids-Grant, Berklee & Mattie

PS--A second opinion for diagnosis is not possible since I'm a 1000 miles away from
home. However, based on the tests, blood work and numbers I was told, I do feel safe
with the diagnosis.

Messages in this topic (1)
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