[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12440

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. a BIG THANKS from a lurker
From: Jihad Abdallah

2a. Re: Does feeding raw repel fleas and ticks?
From: cris_milam
2b. Re: Does feeding raw repel fleas and ticks?
From: MORGAN LEWIS
2c. Re: Does feeding raw repel fleas and ticks?
From: carnesbill
2d. Re: Does feeding raw repel fleas and ticks?
From: ginny wilken

3a. intro/question
From: sweettimemom
3b. Re: intro/question
From: costrowski75

4.1. Re: What kind of dogs do you have Bill?
From: Betty
4.2. Re: What kind of dogs do you have Bill?
From: carnesbill

5.1. Loose, broken, cracked dog teeth
From: Betty

6. Photos link of my dog's teeth
From: Betty

7a. Re: Introducing organs
From: costrowski75

8a. Re: expertise
From: costrowski75

9a. Wish I had smaller dogs!!
From: francesdrew
9b. Re: Wish I had smaller dogs!!
From: Yasuko herron
9c. Re: Wish I had smaller dogs!!
From: Michelle
9d. Re: Wish I had smaller dogs!!
From: carnesbill

10a. Amounts for a puppy
From: Michelle G. Heimendinger
10b. Amounts for a puppy
From: ekendahl
10c. Re: Amounts for a puppy
From: Jennifer Smith
10d. Re: Amounts for a puppy
From: Sandee Lee

11a. Re: How many times a week are eggs ok
From: April
11b. Re: How many times a week are eggs ok
From: Yasuko herron

12. Gullet
From: Yasuko herron

13a. Another newbie with questions!
From: Monica Hughes

Messages
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1. a BIG THANKS from a lurker
Posted by: "Jihad Abdallah" forever_jihad@yahoo.com forever_jihad
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:35 am ((PST))

I've been lurking on this board for a few weeks now and just wanted to
say "Thanks!" for all the wonderful info here. For years I fed my dogs
what I thought was the 'best' on the market, including cooking for
them on weekends. I always took great pride in having happy, healthy
and beautful K9's.
After much research and following the info from this group I made the
jump to RAW only a couple weeks ago. The change in my GSD was
immediate and amazing. The change in my other 3 isn't as dramatic but
is slowly showing in their teeth and coats. Not to mention the big cut
down in doo-doo patrol. lol
I couldn't be happier with my decision to go RAW.
Thanks for all the great info here. I'll continue to lurk and read and
learn. :o)

Jihad Neeahmah Abdallah
and crew.

Messages in this topic (1)
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2a. Re: Does feeding raw repel fleas and ticks?
Posted by: "cris_milam" cmilam@comcast.net cris_milam
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:35 am ((PST))

The whole tick thing alone would be reason enough for me to feed Duncan
raw. We live in Georgia where every tick and flea and his brother must
live. No matter what we used, our dogs had fleas to one degree or
another. It was a neverending battle.

This year Duncan had about 6 fleas all summer long. He had no
treatments for fleas whatsoever (other than being fed raw!). Most of
the fleas he got came from staying overnight with other dogs with
fleas. Apparently, he just wasn't tasty. BTW, it was still a horrible
year for fleas -- every dog owner seemed to start the conversation
with "I've never seen the fleas worse......"

I am very thrilled with this side effect of raw feeding.

Cris and Duncan, the itch free

Messages in this topic (8)
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2b. Re: Does feeding raw repel fleas and ticks?
Posted by: "MORGAN LEWIS" shadowland22000@yahoo.com shadowland22000
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:02 pm ((PST))

OK, somewhere i missed the origin of this discussion; and my search screen doesn't find it. What is it about feeding RAW that controls ticks or fleas. Have had no problem with fleas but ticks are a pain. Morgan

Morgan and His Angels
Precious, OFA
Princess, CGC, TDI, GSDCA Health Award

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2c. Re: Does feeding raw repel fleas and ticks?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:11 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cris_milam" <cmilam@...> wrote:
>
> We live in Georgia where every tick and flea and his brother must
> live.

I live in Georgia also. This year I found one tick on one of two dogs
and about 50 on me(I don't eat raw :) ).

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (8)
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2d. Re: Does feeding raw repel fleas and ticks?
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:36 pm ((PST))

On Dec 31, 2007, at 11:59 AM, MORGAN LEWIS wrote:

> OK, somewhere i missed the origin of this discussion; and my search
> screen doesn't find it. What is it about feeding RAW that controls
> ticks or fleas. Have had no problem with fleas but ticks are a
> pain. Morgan

Nothing complex. In a word, health. Raw allows health, and stops a
vicious and draining battle with inappropriate food. An animal who is
not under siege is one who is unattractive to parasites.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (8)
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3a. intro/question
Posted by: "sweettimemom" emailthecains@charter.net sweettimemom
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:35 am ((PST))

I'm doing my research to get started on RAW I have a Golden A Newf a
mastiff and soon to have another mastiff. I'm wondering how many lbs.
you would recommend I have in my freezer to get started? If all goes
well with the dogs I hope to switch our cat over too.Just looking for
a spot to begin!
Sweettimemom

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: intro/question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:57 am ((PST))

"sweettimemom" <emailthecains@...> wrote:>
> I'm doing my research to get started on RAW I have a Golden A Newf a
> mastiff and soon to have another mastiff. I'm wondering how many lbs.
> you would recommend I have in my freezer to get started?
*****
You get started by starting. Easiest to buy a buncha whole chickens to
cut up as needed. Waiting til your freezer is full enough is a
delaying tactic. The best time to feed raw is right away.

For further answers to questions you haven't even formulated yet,
please join Yahoogroups so you can access the Rawfeeding message
archives. Joining instructions are at the bottom of every Rawfeeding
email you receive. Also see:

http://rawfed.com
http://rawfeddogs.net
http://rawfedcats.org
http://www.rawlearning.com
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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4.1. Re: What kind of dogs do you have Bill?
Posted by: "Betty" prismkitten@yahoo.com prismkitten
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:35 am ((PST))

Hahaha..well, your cats are probably bigger than my Maltese! He could
fit under your Great Danes. As he's small, not a toy though, around 9
lbs. what kind of fish do you think I should start with, what parts,
and how much? I think I figured he should get around 3.7 oz of food
per day, plus the raw rib bones daily for now. I'm not going to cut up
his raw meat today, just give me a chunk of it and see what he does
with it.

Prism

I have 2 Great Danes and 2 cats.
> Bill Carnes

Messages in this topic (49)
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4.2. Re: What kind of dogs do you have Bill?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Betty" <prismkitten@...> wrote:
>
> Hahaha..well, your cats are probably bigger than my Maltese!

Yeah, my cats are arounnd 12lbs and my dogs around 140lbs each.

> what kind of fish do you think I should start with, what parts,
> and how much?

I think Salmon is absolutely the best single fish you can feed.
Parts? all of it. How much? bout the same ass the other meats.

If I remember right, you are just beginning raw so I would hold off
a couple of weeks on the fish. They are not notorious for causing
firm solid stools. I would wait until he has had a few weeks of
good solid stools before I introduced fish. I am very cautious
about soft stools, probably more so than some of the others here.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (49)
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5.1. Loose, broken, cracked dog teeth
Posted by: "Betty" prismkitten@yahoo.com prismkitten
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:35 am ((PST))

Yes, that makes sense to me. When you pulled out the teeth, did the
roots come out, and did you say if they were back molars or front
teeth. Sorry that I can't recall that bit. My dog has no broken or
cracked teeth, just the slightly loose tooth on left back, and the
more loose back tooth on right side. I don't know about any missing
teeth. Is there a graph to look at to number the dog's teeth? Thanks!

Prism

> I think it was the gum disease that made them so loose in the first
> place. They were very loose and we pulled them out ourselves.
> Now that the gums are healthy, I think that's what makes the
> tooth "tighten up".
> Belinda

Messages in this topic (49)
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6. Photos link of my dog's teeth
Posted by: "Betty" prismkitten@yahoo.com prismkitten
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:44 am ((PST))

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22272690@N02/

How does one make a photo album for this forum? I'd like one for Cushy:)

Prism

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7a. Re: Introducing organs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:50 am ((PST))

"carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
> Actually both thimus and pancreas ARE organs but they are also
> glands.
*****
Cool. Fine by me. Makes life easier.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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8a. Re: expertise
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:09 pm ((PST))

ADMIN ADMIN ADMIN ADMIN ADMIN ADMIN ADMIN ADMIN ADMIN

I should like to remind everyone that while menu recommendations for
allergies and other maladies are ON topic for this list, remedies,
cures and treaments beyond diet are OFF topic and are inappropriate for
rawfeeding. Please take all non-diet discussion to RawChat, DogHealth
or private. Thank you.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Wish I had smaller dogs!!
Posted by: "francesdrew" francesdrew@yahoo.com francesdrew
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:11 pm ((PST))

I just bought 60 pounds of meat to feed my 3 largs dogs for 14 days. I feed them mostly
chicken and turkey that I buy whole and cut up myself. I toss in some ground beef, pork
butt, fish, or Nature's Variety Rabbit or Vension medallions for some variety. Sometimes I
wish my dogs were all small and I could afford to feed them in style...more red meats,
more diversity.

What do you do to keep the cost down as much as possible?

Thanks,
Frances

Messages in this topic (4)
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9b. Re: Wish I had smaller dogs!!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:26 pm ((PST))

>I feed them mostly chicken and turkey that I buy whole and cut up myself. I toss in some
ground beef, pork butt, fish, or Nature's Variety Rabbit or Vension medallions for some
variety.

Hi,Frances. How long have you been on rawfeeding? If you were on rawfeeding a little while,and if you already introduced new protins here andthere,you may want to feed more red meat than poultry.

chicken and Turkey is good protin source but high in omega6 than red meat.

If you base on poultry for menu,then,you probably better to give fish oil to bump up the level of omega 3 for your dog.

if you feed beef,try feed hunk of beef like a...Roast,not ground.

andas for madallions,you seem to add it to broaden the protin sources but madallions are no better than real meat. so,if you could find source of real meatsuppliers,that is better for your dogs.plus,you can see what your dogs are getting if you give real meat,and you have control over amount etc.

Sometimes,state has co-op and if you can order bulk,then,items price per pound gets cheaper and if you hadfarmers near you,that is another option as well.

If you live in VA,until thursday this week,they have 10lb pork loin with price of 1.99 per pound. it is boneless.I believe that if you slice to 1 inch thickness,that iswhat you get as POrk chop withjout bone,but this ignormous loin lasts quite long timefor my 34lb dog.

when I got it last time,it was30 cents cheaper in price but still,it is a good buy.

yassy

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9c. Re: Wish I had smaller dogs!!
Posted by: "Michelle" brunoheart@yahoo.com brunoheart
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:26 pm ((PST))

> What do you do to keep the cost down as much as possible?
>
> Thanks,
> Frances
>
I am lucky in that my local butcher sells whole Beef Chucks to me for
$2.49 a pound, I can also get shin meat for around $1.50-2.00 per
pound. My local Safeway was just having whole Pork tenderloins on
sale for about $1.69 per lb. I can get whole Beef Briskets at
Walmart for about $1.67 per pound. I also buy Pork ribs by the case
and extra meaty Beef Ribs at Walmart for about $1.98 per pound. I am
unlucky in that I am feeding two Great Danes one of which vomits up
all forms of poultry and the other of which won't eat poulty if the
poultry barfer is eating beef. I have some friends that hunt and
will give me Deer Carcasses of which he has lots because he butchers
deer for his friends, too. It gets easier to find deals over time.
Check local butchers, grocery stores and look in the phone book or
check with your local Ag Department to find who butchers deer in the
area. They may even offer scraps and carcasses for free (it saves
them from having to dispose of the bits and pieces).I also order
ground tripe and organ meat from online and get canned salmon,
mackeral and tuna from whoever has it cheaper.
Hope this helps, good luck!
Michelle Pape

Messages in this topic (4)
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9d. Re: Wish I had smaller dogs!!
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:27 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "francesdrew" <francesdrew@...>
wrote:
>
> I just bought 60 pounds of meat to feed my 3 largs dogs for 14
days. I feed them mostly
> chicken and turkey that I buy whole and cut up myself. I toss in
some ground beef, pork
> butt, fish, or Nature's Variety Rabbit or Vension medallions for
some variety. Sometimes I
> wish my dogs were all small and I could afford to feed them in
style...more red meats,
> more diversity.
>
> What do you do to keep the cost down as much as possible?
>
I don't buy whole chickens. I buy chicken backs in bulk .25/lb. I
buy chicken quarters at Walmart .47/lb. I don't buy whole turkeys.
I buy turkey necks or wings in bulk for around .50 to .60/lb(price
fluctuates). I don't buy ground beef, instead I buy beef heart in
bulk around .50 - .70/lb(price fluctuates). I do buy pork butt and
other pork roasts. I feed venison that I can beg off my friends for
free (last years and year before deer). I also take any old meat I
can talk friends out of. I use freecycle. I don't under any
conditions buy any pre-made dog food. I can feed 2 Great Danes and
2 cats for about $60 - $70/mo.

Because of the money I save getting some of the cheap stuff I can
buy them more expensive meats sometimes when on sale. I have bought
t-bone steaks, serloin steaks, cube steaks, and beef roasts as well
as other pork cuts. These are all from the grocery store at cheaper
than average sales.

(And they say men can't shop!) :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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10a. Amounts for a puppy
Posted by: "Michelle G. Heimendinger" michelle@hdinger.com michellegallik
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:33 pm ((PST))

Hi all. Ok, my standard poodle pup is about 7 lbs and 11 weeks. She is getting approx. 3 ½ tablespoons of ground meats 3 times a day but still looking for food. I will give her some chunks tonight or if I find a turkey neck. Can't remember - do puppies just always look for food or should I be giving her more until she seems satiated ?

Michelle

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10b. Amounts for a puppy
Posted by: "ekendahl" robert@ekendahl.org ekendahl
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:26 pm ((PST))

<michelle@...> wrote:
>
>Ok, my standard poodle pup is about 7 lbs and 11 weeks. She is
>getting approx. 3 ½ tablespoons of ground meats 3 times a day
>but still looking for food.

I'm new to this so triple check my calculations but I think you are
underfeeding your dog

I'm guessing a fully grown standard poodle weighs around 65 lbs (not
sure about ideal weight). 2% of that is 1.3 lbs/day which is a lot, so
until you reach that weight you should feed him 10% of his body weight.

He is currently 7 lbs so target is 0.7 lbs which means 11.2 oz/day.

You are currently feeding him 3*3.5 tbps, or 10.5 tbsps; which is only
5.25 oz food.

So unless I'm missing something (and I'm new to this so check my data)
the you're really not giving him enough!

And as a side note I wonder why you are feeding him grounded meat? I
think he would do better on simply getting pieces of meat to chew on?

/Robert Ekendahl

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10c. Re: Amounts for a puppy
Posted by: "Jennifer Smith" oldbones929@alltel.net oldbones929
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:27 pm ((PST))

Hi Michelle,
I don't think that 3 1/2 tbls is enough for a growing pup, I'd suggest
giving her 3/4 cup of ground meat 3 times a day and/or maybe some chicken
necks to snack on periodically. If she starts to gain too much weight you
can always cut back a bit. Pups use a lot of energy playing and growing so
I think she needs a bit more food. Does the ground meat have bone in it?
If not you'll need to give some sort of calcium supplement, since meat
without bone is not balanced.

Jennifer

-----Original Message-----
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Michelle G. Heimendinger
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 3:21 PM
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re:Amounts for a puppy

Hi all. Ok, my standard poodle pup is about 7 lbs and 11 weeks. She is
getting approx. 3 ½ tablespoons of ground meats 3 times a day but still
looking for food. I will give her some chunks tonight or if I find a turkey
neck. Can't remember - do puppies just always look for food or should I be
giving her more until she seems satiated ?

Michelle

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10d. Re: Amounts for a puppy
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:02 pm ((PST))

Michelle,

That doesn't sound like enough food. She should be eating approximately
2-3% of her expected adult weight per day. But I would get away from the
ground and try something larger. In an earlier message today, Chris listed
reasons to not feed chicken necks or ground foods and had some good
suggestions for puppy feeding. If you didn't see that message, it would be
worth going back and viewing.

Many of the puppy feeders will feed things like chicken quarters, let pup
eat until full and then refrigerate for another meal.
Take a look at these pictures to give you a better idea.....
http://homepage.mac.com/rhbmgmt/PhotoAlbum14.html

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Michelle G. Heimendinger" <michelle@hdinger.com>

Hi all. Ok, my standard poodle pup is about 7 lbs and 11 weeks. She is
getting approx. 3 ½ tablespoons of ground meats 3 times a day but still
looking for food. I will give her some chunks tonight or if I find a turkey
neck. Can't remember - do puppies just always look for food or should I
be giving her more until she seems satiated ?

Messages in this topic (6)
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11a. Re: How many times a week are eggs ok
Posted by: "April" akakeck@hotmail.com akapitrescue
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:26 pm ((PST))

> > How many times week is it ok to feed eggs ?> >

I feed all my dogs, pups too, 1 whole egg 2-3 times per week. All seem
to really like them and no side effects since first week or two. The
only thing I saw then was exceptional oder from stools, cleared by end
of 2nd week in longest case.

April Keck

Messages in this topic (5)
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11b. Re: How many times a week are eggs ok
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:26 pm ((PST))

I feed raw egg about 2 per week. I don't feed daily.

It is high protin source(very digestable source of protin),but since most of cal comes from fat(EB egg that I feed gives half the cal from fat) and I try to loose my dog weight so,2 is max that I give.Instead,I rotate between Tripe side dish and Egg.

She did not get Egg today but,she goes nuts about tripe balls for side dish today:-P

She keep licking the zip bag like crazy. Her mouth smell like tripe today but that is ok,she enjoyed the meal.

yassy and palette who lost half pound this week

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12. Gullet
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:26 pm ((PST))

Has anyone fed Gullet to dog? I have just ordered Beef Gullet from Hare today. I should get it next week or so. I like to know if bone is hard or softer side.

I read that is cartilidge with a little meat on it so,I got it.

yassy

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13a. Another newbie with questions!
Posted by: "Monica Hughes" monicabeth10@yahoo.com monicabeth10
Date: Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:21 pm ((PST))

Hi Julie.

My dog likes to eat on the carpet, so I simply put a big towel above the carpet, put the meat down, and she eats it right there. Then I wash the towels. I'm not sure what to suggest if your dog is carrying food all over the house. Coudl you confine the dog to an easily cleaned room in that case, and just wipe up the floor afterward?

Because Dora doesn't really eat out of a bowl, I just use the towel method. It works great, because she's a neat eater. If find she doesn't stray from the bath sized towel. Plus there are no nasty bowls to clean. Yay!

Monica

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