[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12451

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. questions about feeding raw
From: bethhugh7
1b. Re: questions about feeding raw
From: Sandee Lee
1c. Re: questions about feeding raw
From: Lisa-Gray Vick
1d. Re: questions about feeding raw
From: Yasuko herron
1e. Re: questions about feeding raw
From: carnesbill

2.1. Re: Newbie
From: Sandee Lee

3a. Re: good bones for teeth cleaning
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
From: costrowski75

5. Leaving RMB's out overnight - indoors?
From: Susanne MacLeod

6a. Re: Feeding Indoors? I'm a Newbie
From: Lisa-Gray Vick
6b. Re: Feeding Indoors? I'm a Newbie
From: Di
6c. Re: Feeding Indoors? I'm a Newbie
From: Sandee Lee

7a. Re: runs
From: Yasuko herron

8a. Re: Chicago Area
From: godkrittersnkids

9a. anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
From: carnesbill
9b. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
From: costrowski75

10.1. Re: liver
From: Yasuko herron

11a. poo consistency
From: Amy Tracy
11b. Re: poo consistency
From: Sandee Lee
11c. Re: poo consistency
From: carnesbill

12a. RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
From: mcburkel
12b. Re: RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
From: Sandee Lee
12c. Re: RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
From: Giselle
12d. Re: RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
12e. Re: RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
From: carnesbill

Messages
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1a. questions about feeding raw
Posted by: "bethhugh7" bethhugh7@yahoo.com bethhugh7
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 7:56 pm ((PST))

hi i have recently started to feed raw and i read alot on this site. i
have went to alot of the links posted here. im learning lots so please
bear with me. question 1.is... when feeding raw meaty bones is their a
high insedince for the dog to get hurt inside of its body(stomach,
intestines) from bone fragments?
question 2.... has anyone out there got a dog that has been on raw a
long time? because i want to know if what i have been reading about the
raw diet eventually makes the dogs sick true? like from
parasites ,worms ,and pancreatitus?
because most of all i want my family of dogs to be healthy and live a
long time.
also ,if there is that much bad stuff in the raw meat will cooking it
even make it safe for humans.
last question.... if they are eating ecoli,salmanila, parasites is
it safe to kiss them and let them lick you?
i know these question are probley stupid but im a little nervous.
sorry but thanks in advance for your help. beth and her bratts

Messages in this topic (5)
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1b. Re: questions about feeding raw
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 8:16 pm ((PST))

1. Nope....if that was the case we wouldn't have dogs today.

2. Same as #1...if that were true, we wouldn't have dogs today. None of
those things listed are caused by feeding raw. I have only been feeding raw
for 8 years, many on this list much longer.

Last question. If you let them kiss you before, it's certainly fine
now...probably safer. E. coli, salmonella and parasites are everywhere
regardless of what is fed but a rawfed mouth is far better than the bacteria
laden mouths of those being fed kibble.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

Messages in this topic (5)
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1c. Re: questions about feeding raw
Posted by: "Lisa-Gray Vick" sunbeams412@yahoo.com sunbeams412
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:06 pm ((PST))

These are great questions. I am new as well and quite nervous. I'm not looking to be forced or persuaded that it's the "right" thing to feed but but answers to some of these same types of questions you are posing so I can have a comfort level and be educated "all-around". No question is ever stupid I tell my students.
Lisa

bethhugh7 <bethhugh7@yahoo.com> wrote:
hi i have recently started to feed raw and i read alot on this site. i
have went to alot of the links posted here. im learning lots so please
bear with me. question 1.is... when feeding raw meaty bones is their a
high insedince for the dog to get hurt inside of its body(stomach,
intestines) from bone fragments?
question 2.... has anyone out there got a dog that has been on raw a
long time? because i want to know if what i have been reading about the
raw diet eventually makes the dogs sick true? like from
parasites ,worms ,and pancreatitus?
because most of all i want my family of dogs to be healthy and live a
long time.
also ,if there is that much bad stuff in the raw meat will cooking it
even make it safe for humans.
last question.... if they are eating ecoli,salmanila, parasites is
it safe to kiss them and let them lick you?
i know these question are probley stupid but im a little nervous.
sorry but thanks in advance for your help. beth and her bratts

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (5)
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1d. Re: questions about feeding raw
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:09 pm ((PST))

> when feeding raw meaty bones is their a high insedince for the dog to get hurt inside of its body(stomach, intestines) from bone fragments?

Hi,Beth. You may heard a lot about "don't give adog a bone" in the past,but dangerous bone is COOKED bone not raw bone.Cooked bone I read sometimes can get stuck inside the boddy and,I experienced very very miserable diarrhea episode of my dog before knowing better on this. 2 years ago,I fed Ham bone that wasleft from christmasdinner thinking this would be jackpot for my dog.Of course,my dog loved it and gubbled done so much but,next day was so miserable,she left golf ball sized round hard stone-like poo often times andon our way home from in laws house,she did major diarrhea and next 2 days,she messed in cage(we were too late to notice her signe) and she had to take a bath 2am with us human having sleepy eyes .. Raw bones are ok,digested pretty well.

Things you like to avoid is bone from big animals that supprt big weight with bone such as beef knuckle bone,feumer bone,marrow bone.Those are teeth wearer and teeth breaker as well. I never feed them.

However, I think supervising dogs meal is essential especially when you just started feeding bone. It is not just about safety but also, you can learn lots from just observing dogs. like eating habits;gulper or not.If one needs to feed bigger sized meal or not.Andyou sometimes need to rescue yourdog; my dog once waseating lamb neck(with added meat of course) and it was just one time thing in the past but she got the neck bone stuck in teeth and,pawing at her muzzel trying to get rid of it. If I were not there,I am not sure waht outcome I would encounter but,I helped her get the bone piece out from her teeth. I am not saying you need to all thetime but observing can help some situation.

> question 2.... the raw diet eventually makes the dogs sick true?

No,dog intestin is much shorter than us human andbefore the salmonella infect thedog,dog poop out. On the other hand,human has long intestine so,if one ate something with salmonella,much easier to get sick from it.

>i want my family of dogs to be healthy and live a long time.

Then,this feeding is a way to go.Raw meat is free of additive,preservative,coloring,flavoring,any kinds of unnnecessary spraying of vitamins like kibble and,much healthier diet. Dog can get nutrient from form of whole foods rather than the ones human created it,damaging nutrient contents by cooking with high heat and using not great source of meat and with unnecessary carb....By feeding rawfeeding,your dog gets stronger immune system and should live better than now.

my dog do not get monthly flea med as well and, still healthy as horse.I find no flea.Andcost isshinier and softer andafter petting her,my hands neverstink like after petting other dogs and breath is not stinky doggy breath... You would see such improvement in your dogs.


>also ,if there is that much bad stuff in the raw meat will cooking it
even make it safe for humans.

I think cooking is done for safety handling for human due human has longer intestine than dogs andeasy to get sick.

> if they are eating ecoli,salmanila, parasites is it safe to kiss them and let them lick you?

If it were not after eating cat poo or tripe,I let her lick me as much asshe wants. She likes licking my bare foot when I take socks off and likes to lick my forehead when I am laying down with her but I let her to her hearts content.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (5)
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1e. Re: questions about feeding raw
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:09 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "bethhugh7" <bethhugh7@...> wrote:
>
> 1.is... when feeding raw meaty bones is their a
> high insedince for the dog to get hurt inside of its body(stomach,
> intestines) from bone fragments?

No, kibble has only been around for 50 years or so and only popular
for less than that. What do you think dogs ate before kibble came
along?

> question 2.... has anyone out there got a dog that has been
> on raw a
> long time? because i want to know if what i have been
> reading about the raw diet eventually makes the dogs sick true?

Like my previous answer. Dogs have been eating raw meat, bones and
organs for 64 million years. If it made them sick, they would have
been extinct by now.

> like from
> parasites ,worms ,and pancreatitus?
> because most of all i want my family of dogs to be healthy
> and live a long time.

Thats why we all feed raw. We want the same thing.

> last question.... if they are eating ecoli,salmanila,
> parasites is
> it safe to kiss them and let them lick you?

Yes it is.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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2.1. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 8:08 pm ((PST))

Susan,

Fruits and veggies have no place in a carnivore's diet...so no, there are no
supplements necessary to replace those items. Everything a carnivore
requires is found in their natural diet...meat, bones and organs.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "skcreedon" <skcreedon@aol.com>

Oh THANK YOU so much....my head has stopped throbing at the thought of
those recipes. Any supplements if there are no fruit and vegetable?
You a a headache saver. :-)

Messages in this topic (221)
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3a. Re: good bones for teeth cleaning
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 8:18 pm ((PST))

"Mary Tinder" <mtinder@...> wrote:
>
> Any suggestions on the best type and species bones for scouring the
> teeth?
*****
We hit this topic recently. You might want to check the list archives.

The best bones period are those slathered with meat. Any bone that is
big enough to challenge the dog and meaty enough to require effort will
clean teeth. Some less meaty bones--like uncut sections of pork necks,
slabs of beef or pork ribs, and perhaps even a knuckle if its use is
supervised--can provide a good workout and some teeth scrubbing
although the meat meal will be a light one.

But bones will not necessarily clean the gumline or tackle the
incisors. For that you need to feed body parts that your dog literally
can sink its teeth into. Probably the easiest way to clean teeth and
keep teeth clean is to feed a variety of meaty body parts, some with
bone, some without.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 8:35 pm ((PST))

"divasdesignerstore" <divasdesignerstore@...> wrote:
>> But at lunch time I give them all a dish of peeled carrots, apples,
> green beans, pumpkin, sweet potatoes, etc. I vary it for them. They
> don't actually digest this stuff when it's fed like this, doesn't
> really add any pounds on them either, great thing for pugs, but it
> makes them feel full enough that they can wait until their next meal.
*****
Oh dear.
This is quite distressing. I cannot imagine filling a dog up with such
inappropriate items just to make them feel full. You should feed them
the amount of real--bio-available--food they should be getting and
without a single twinge of remorse refuse to feed them one gram of
anything else. They can get over themselves. So can you.

This vegetarian lunch is not healthy for them and the fact that you
know they can't digest it only makes the practice more bizarre. They
may not gain weight on this menu but they certainly can have impressive
digestive disturbances.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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5. Leaving RMB's out overnight - indoors?
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:07 pm ((PST))

I have often wondered what to do about this. When I feed, I often feed whatever is on hand.
Some chopped up meat, maybe some ground whatever, but I compliment it with a nice raw
meaty bone. Tonight it's a honkin' slice of a deer neck, complete with a good amount of
meat surrounding it. It's almost as big as the kidlettes heads!! LOL (French Bulldogs).
Anyhow it's about minus 1000 here in Toronto Canada, and during the winter we feed
indoors. So I was wondering to those long term raw feeders, do you leave a rmb out
overnight on their feeding blankie, or do you guys pick it up and put it in the fridge, when it
comes time to go to beddies?
Thanks,
Suz Kate and Joey

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: Feeding Indoors? I'm a Newbie
Posted by: "Lisa-Gray Vick" sunbeams412@yahoo.com sunbeams412
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:08 pm ((PST))

I've heard that the dogs will NOT get salmonella but what about us humans? I doubt seriously that I'll get my 1 yr. energetic sheltie to eat in one spot. There are young kids all around here and on the floor, etc. To lay down a tablecloth for her to eat on and then pick it up and reuse several times before washing still doesn't register with me because her paws are going to be all over it as well as the meat and bones and then all over us and the house. I know it works for people out there so I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just asking how does it work? I want to learn. Thanks.
Lisa

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Alexis" <alexis78@...> wrote:
>
> I'm concerned about the possibility of salmonella, etc.

Funny thing is that we get daily posts from
people "concerned", "worried", "scared to death", "terrified", etc
about salmonella. I don't remember ever seeing a post saying "My
dog has salmonella" You will soon learn that samonella, E-coli, etc
is just not a problem when feeding raw assuming you wash your hands
as you would after handling raw meat for humans.

> My family thinks
> I'm nuts for feeding him raw meat and obviously the indoor
> thing was a mistake....any suggestions for keeping
> the mess 'contained.'

I have 2 Great Danes that eat every meal inside. They both eat
wherever they want. When they finish eating, they will clean their
own mess then swap places and clean the other dog's place. I think
the secret is to make sure when they finish, they still want
more. :) :) :)

Many people will babygate the dogs in the kitchen, many feed in
crates, many will put down a towel or plastic table cloth or shower
curtain. It's easy to teach the dog to eat on something in a
certain place.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (7)
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6b. Re: Feeding Indoors? I'm a Newbie
Posted by: "Di" fleabite001@yahoo.com fleabite001
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:10 pm ((PST))

+++Mod note: pls sign emails and also trim them - this one trimmed for you by a mod.

I feed my dogs outside.

---
> Many people will babygate the dogs in the kitchen, many feed in
> crates, many will put down a towel or plastic table cloth or shower
> curtain. It's easy to teach the dog to eat on something in a
> certain place.
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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6c. Re: Feeding Indoors? I'm a Newbie
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:50 pm ((PST))

Lisa,

Salmonella is everywhere regardless of what is fed. If you didn't get sick
when your dogs were eating kibble, there is no more danger now. The main
concern is the stools (regardless of diet)...practice normal hygiene and
don't worry about it!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Lisa-Gray Vick" <sunbeams412@yahoo.com>

> I've heard that the dogs will NOT get salmonella but what about us humans?
I doubt seriously that I'll get my 1 yr. energetic sheltie to eat in one
spot. There are young kids all around here and on the floor, etc. To lay
down a tablecloth for her to eat on and then pick it up and reuse several
times before washing still doesn't register with me because her paws are
going to be all over it as well as the meat and bones and then all over us
and the house. I know it works for people out there so I'm not saying it
can't be done. I'm just asking how does it work? I want to learn. Thanks.

Messages in this topic (7)
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7a. Re: runs
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:08 pm ((PST))

>We went raw with our two boys (Hagrid and Petey) last week and are on our 9th or 10th day.

Hi,Nanette.Congratulation on switching thye diet to raw. you really would not regret your choice even if you go through occasional detective work like this when dog vomits or runny poo etc.It worth it.

>Pete (80lb mix) - He's been like a real dog with this. We started with chicken backs cause I could get them for free from a farmer I buy our meat from.

free is great but do you notice that you need to add meat to that back you get from farmers each time you feed back to your dogs??Like getting Boneless chicken to go with the back if you will.

it is tempting to see the letter FREE and want to buy the free backs but overall,since you need to add meat to that bony parts,you end up spending more than you probably would if you get a whole poultry.

I recommend to get a whole poultry and cut to portion andfeed.That way,you do not have to buy extra expensive boneless breast for example.

>He takes it and rips it and works it and has been having the perfect stools.

Perfect stool means nothing,Nanette. The poo should reflect the meal the dog ate. Like..if my dog ate heart meal,the color is probably darker and probably little soft. The poo after heart meal is softer than we normally get used to see but,I would not worry because the meal is reflecting poo consistency.

The dog poo is if crumbly,then,you feeding too much bone so,you need to feed more meat.

You mayread lots of times here in this list but dog needs meat more than bone. Dog needs to eat bone but much less meeded than meat itself.

> We switched Pete - the more vivacious and seemingly unranked to turkey backs three days ago. (I cut off most of the carcass and left the back where the meat was) I then mixed in some turkey necks.

Again,if you could,you buy a whole Turkey and cut up to portion and feed. You write Back and Neck,and it seems quite bone-high meal than meat.Are you adding any boneless meal?

>The turkey backs are much meatier than the chicken backs

It probably because of bird size,but if you buy 10lb Turkey for example,you get tonz of meal out of it and you do not have to worry about adding boneless meat to it.


So.... you says you are on 10th reawfeeding day so,Turkey is your choice of second protin source??

> Tonight I was preparing to give him much more meat. I bought chicken breasts and leg/thighs for him tonight. When I got home from work, he had done some squirting in his kennel.

Well... is this after boneless meal is fed? If so,then, either too much food or since hedid not have bone in the meal,he had runny poo maybe? Or,the meat you bought was enhanced with any ways like with broth or salt solution?

> While he was squatting he projectile vomited in the back yard loosing the entire
contents of his morning meal plus, guess what? poop! I went and looked and there was poop in with the turkey and bones.

Maybe Turkey was too much bone to your dog.How much do you feed to your dog?

>Should I do anything else?

I sort of feel that you maybe fed too much new thing all at once. And too much bone in the meal.So,after fasting him,you can feed him combo meal.

Like.. chicken and Turkey. Then,gradually,increase the Turkey portion in the meal.If still having poo problem,you can try removing skin off andafter he does well digested on the meal,you can remove skin less and less and feed as is after that.

>Hagrid - 125lb St. Bernard - Very picky eater (always has been). He doesn't like to chew his food.

Dog does not chew like human and they are like crunch crunch crunch swallow.

> He doesn't like chicken in any form

Maybe he istoo new to texture and smell and taste of raw meat. Kibble is sprayed with tonz of additives or flavoring etc and compare to such meals,,definitely raw meal is quite new andmay need getting used to sort of time for some dogs.

>I gave him some ground pork with his chicken two days ago and he ate the pork.

I think you better off stick with non ground meat of any kind. Hunk of pork meat like roast.
It provides more mental physical excersize and good for teeth too.

>So tonight I went and got some pork ribs (country style with lots of meat - still not enough for when they're transitioned).

So... this dog has been on pork for 10 days now?? Or introduced pork ribs after chicken??

> I put the rib down and he picked it up and dropped it.

When my dog had prob like this on Elk rib,I grabbed kitchen sears and I cut a little (ribboprning the meat still attached to rib bone itself),so that my dog can smell more andshe had no prob with rib after that. I just did coupple of times like this and I do not have to do this anymore and she knows what to do with it.And got used to flavor(I think) too.

>he eats from a raised bowl

My dog eats on food mat not with bowl except Raw egg or liver. Yourdog is much bigger than mine(I have corgi 34lb) so,meal should be bigger than hers. Did you just fed singleton of rib??Did you add boneless meat to it like..pork chop or pork roast or something without bone?Rib only is way too bony meal.

>because he stopped so soon.
Stop catering him and stop to be stiff.Relax anddo not coax him to eat meal. If you give him time and if he knows that is all he gets as meal,then,he would eat it soon. Since meal is complete different thing from his point of view,he probably needs time to get used to raw meat.

And try feed baby step.One new thing at a time after well digested.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (6)
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8a. Re: Chicago Area
Posted by: "godkrittersnkids" godkrittersnkids@yahoo.com godkrittersnkids
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:08 pm ((PST))

Hi! Keep me in mind and feel free to email me privately...just getting
started here!

Thanks.

Linda

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "skcreedon" <skcreedon@...> wrote:
>
> Anyone from the Chicago area ... bulk buy
Susan Creedon, Chicago
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:09 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle G. Heimendinger"
<michelle@...> wrote:
>
> Do most folks have any idea of what chemicals are being fed
> to feedlot animals ?

I have heard horror stories. I put as much faith in those stories
as I do in the horror stories I hear about raw feeding.

> I live in WA and get my organic meats directly from a farmer
> I know - he's told me some awful stories.

Let me teach you a very important life lesson. ALWAYS be suspicious
of anything someone tells you if he is going to make money the
decision you make based on the information he gives you. What he
just said is "MY cows are so much superior to the other guy's cows.
Your health, your families health, and your dog's health will be
much better if they eat my cows. You should pay me a much larger
price for my cows because of this."

> BUT, what about all the chemicals (most
> slaughterhouses now chemically spray the carcasses to kill
> the Ecoli 157
> - and that takes a lot) and of course, Antibiotics - that has to
have some long term effect on animals ?

What about the bacteria in raw? What about bones? How can you
balance a diet without veggies? Do see what I'm saying? There are
all kinds of false information floating around all over everywhere
about everythlng. All we can do is look at the information we have
and try to research for information we don't have and them come to a
conclusion.

My conclusion about beef is that although i know there may be some
chemicals in the cows or there may not be. I am sure it is nowhere
nearly as bad as some would have you believe. Eating grocery store
meats is a non issue for me. I don't give it a second thought. I
don't fall for scare tactics. I eat meats from grocery stores and
restaurants most every day. By no means do I buy the story that
giant agribusinesses are out to kill us.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (10)
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9b. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 11:47 pm ((PST))

"spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@...> wrote:
>
> I'm in yahoo groups... isn't that necessary for this list?
*****
If you are already signed in to Yahoogroups, then you can go to the
rawfeeding list and access the archives. If you joined rawfeeding via
email then you may not have gone the extra mile to join Yahoogroups.
The information at the bottom of your rawfeeding emails will tell you
for sure.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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10.1. Re: liver
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:09 pm ((PST))

1>mix with Egg
2>Mix with Tripe
3>sear a little only when introduction phase andgradulally less searing
4>feed frozen

You can try these tricks.

Mine hates pork liver,but if it were mixed with RawEgg,she gubbles down.

yassy

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11a. poo consistency
Posted by: "Amy Tracy" amypatriciatracy@gmail.com rosiesmomlovesrosie
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:09 pm ((PST))

Hi, newbie here. We're going into our second month of raw. All is
well, but I have a question about the consistency of my pooch's stool.
Most days she has beautiful poos, but about three times a week she has
a big runny splart (just one giant ugly pile). Sometimes I think it's
egg day, or a new cut of meat. Whatever ... I'm just wondering how
important it is for her stool to be consistent day in and day out.

Also, I'm not super scientific with the feeding. I measure out her
organ amount per week, but otherwise I kind of "wing" it. I eye-ball
her one pound, and just make sure she has lots of meat and the
appropriate amount of bone. I feed her once a day. Does that sound
okay? Or since I'm a newbie should I do more weighing. I am watching
her weight.
Amy and Rosie (momma's little red-headed love pie)

Messages in this topic (3)
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11b. Re: poo consistency
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:42 pm ((PST))

Amy,

Don't look! :) Seriously stool consistency is going to vary depending on
what is fed. Bony meals, firmer, lighter stools...meaty meals and organs or
eggs, darker, looser stools. It's all OK!! Sounds like you are doing
great.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Amy Tracy" <amypatriciatracy@gmail.com>

> Hi, newbie here. We're going into our second month of raw. All is
> well, but I have a question about the consistency of my pooch's stool.
> Most days she has beautiful poos, but about three times a week she has
> a big runny splart (just one giant ugly pile). Sometimes I think it's
> egg day, or a new cut of meat. Whatever ... I'm just wondering how
> important it is for her stool to be consistent day in and day out.
>
> Also, I'm not super scientific with the feeding. I measure out her
> organ amount per week, but otherwise I kind of "wing" it. I eye-ball
> her one pound, and just make sure she has lots of meat and the
> appropriate amount of bone. I feed her once a day. Does that sound
> okay? Or since I'm a newbie should I do more weighing. I am watching
> her weight.
> Amy and Rosie (momma's little red-headed love pie)
>

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Messages in this topic (3)
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11c. Re: poo consistency
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 11:55 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Amy Tracy"
<amypatriciatracy@...> wrote:
>
> I'm just wondering how
> important it is for her stool to be consistent day in and day out.

Stools will certainly not be consistent day in and day out. Stool
consistency depends on what that particular stool is made of.
However, big runny splarts are not part of the game. I suggest you
write down everything you feed her and the stool constancy. Since
this seems to be pretty regular, you should be able to correlate one
with the other. It could be a particular protein source, it could
be too large a meal, it could be a particular treat. If you feed
veggies, I would suspect them. I would also suspect organ days.

> Also, I'm not super scientific with the feeding. I measure out her
> organ amount per week, but otherwise I kind of "wing" it. I
> eye-ball
> her one pound, and just make sure she has lots of meat and the
> appropriate amount of bone.

Eyeball is perfectly ok. Most of us eyeball. However in your
notes, take notice of the volume (large, medium, small). Too much
volume at one time can cause the problem you are having early in the
diet.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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12a. RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
Posted by: "mcburkel" morsgreatdanes@comcast.net mcburkel
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:09 pm ((PST))

I feed RAW and have been doing it for about 2 years. I first started
with my 1 year old dane. He had no skin issues(staph infection) until
I switched. I spent hundreds of dollars on meds and vet visits to
come to my own conclusion that he was allergic to chicken. Took out
chicken and within a few months it went away with the help of
Cephelexin.

Then I got a second dog and she was weaned to RAW as a pup. I didnt
put my brain cells to use and when I was thawing the packaged meat
some of the juices would leak out of the sack and get on the first
danes food and he got the staph infection again. Then my other dog
(dane also) got the infection. Both were put on Cephelexin and it was
cleared up.

My first dane passed away and I got another dane recently. Well the
second girl started showing small signs of what looks to be the same
infection and now it looks like the puppy is getting it too. Im
beyond frustrated. I try to do whats best and I feel like Im failing.
Im on the verge of just switching back to kibble, but would rather
not.

My danes have alot of white and you can see the skin under the fur
and the skin is reddish blotches about as big as a pencil eraser.
Some of them turn into a bump. Mostly around the neck and a few on
the back, usually.

Their meals in a week are:

3-4 days of chicken quarters
1 day of Pork (whatever is on sale)
1 day of turkey (they like drummies and tails)
1-2 days of ground beef with liver and sardines in oil and sweet
potatoes.

The vet I see, for the area I live in is the best that I can do,
believes dogs are omnivores and thinks Im not feeding an adequete
diet. Im in search for any ideas!!! ANY!! I have not used any new
detergents or dog shampoos. I bath every 1-2 months because I show.
No yard sprays used no flea controls and no fleas. NO new vaccines.
Im truly clueless as what is going on. I cant see all 3 being
allergic to chicken, all 3 different pedigrees.

The only thing that I can think of is that they have been ultra picky
latley and are getting more chicken, such as they will eat a little
bit of the turkey and I make them wait until next day when its
chicken day. I try not to spoil them that way.

Please help... Need more info just ask!!

Marian

Messages in this topic (5)
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12b. Re: RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 11:01 pm ((PST))

Marian,

This makes no sense unless they are all reacting to the enhancers and
additives found in much of the chicken and most turkey.
Might take a look at the labels to see if they are injected with some
preservative solution. Sounds like the reaction my girl has to these
products.

Your diet is heavy in poultry...try either not feeding it at all and
replacing with red meat...or making certain your poultry is natural and feed
it occasionally.

Oh, and get rid of the sweet potatoes...any other food or supplement you
didn't mention?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "mcburkel" <morsgreatdanes@comcast.net>

My danes have alot of white and you can see the skin under the fur
and the skin is reddish blotches about as big as a pencil eraser.
Some of them turn into a bump. Mostly around the neck and a few on
the back, usually.

Their meals in a week are:

3-4 days of chicken quarters
1 day of Pork (whatever is on sale)
1 day of turkey (they like drummies and tails)
1-2 days of ground beef with liver and sardines in oil and sweet
potatoes.

Messages in this topic (5)
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12c. Re: RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 11:26 pm ((PST))

NO sardines in oil, either!

Canned sardines are cooked, and are probably packed in soy oil - BIG
possibility for food sensitivity there!

Feed fresh or frozen whole fish, pork, beef, rabbit, venison, lamb, goat -
leave the chicken and turkey alone unless you can get it minimally processed
without enhancements, as Sandee says.

It takes awhile for the itchies to go away after eliminating offending
substances, sometimes months. Be patient.

Oh, and try to get some other organs into their diet; kidney, spleen,
sweetbreads, etc.

Hmm, what else? Oh, look for environmental chemicals that may be causing or
contributing to the problem - inhalant allergies, personal or household
cleaners or fresheners, carpet, paint, furniture off gassings, lawn
treatments......

Plain white vinegar and water is an effective cleaner, and baking soda can
be used as a mild abrasive and deodorizer. Using white vinegar in a final
rinse and NO fabric softener in items the dogs lay on can eliminate topical
irritation.

Vaccines can cause problems, even if the effects are not evident right away.
Your dogs can develop sensitivities to chemicals over time, so look to
whatever products you have been using, too.

Yes, I too want to know if there's any supps or additives in these pups
diets that you haven't mentioned.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

Marian,
>
> This makes no sense unless they are all reacting to the enhancers and
> additives found in much of the chicken and most turkey.
>

> <snip>
> Your diet is heavy in poultry...try either not feeding it at all and
> replacing with red meat...or making certain your poultry is natural and
> feed
> it occasionally.
>
> Oh, and get rid of the sweet potatoes...any other food or supplement you
> didn't mention?
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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12d. Re: RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 11:55 pm ((PST))

Marian,
I have Danes too, one is white, she's never had a problem with chicken, however, prepackaged chicken, gives her issues. Where do you get your chicken? Is it enhanced, I noticed it was quarters, maybe you should try whole chickens, cut down to feeding portions, to see if that makes a difference. Make sure it's not chemically enhanced, or added with any juices of any kind. No colorants either. They do alot to chicken these days.
Maybe try organic, to see if that changes things, on the chicken anyway.
Hope that helps. And I bath mine in Mane and Tail for horses, they also have a leave in conditioner, it's nice too, but usually don't need it for the dogs, just me.:)
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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12e. Re: RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 11:56 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mcburkel" <morsgreatdanes@...>
wrote:
>
> Please help... Need more info just ask!!
>
Hey Marian,
It's good to see you again. I haven't seen you in a while. Sorry to
hear about the problems you are having. I think there is probably a
very simple answer to your problems. You have just overlooked it or
eliminated it as a possibility in your mind.

I don't buy the fact that you have 3 unrelated dogs with an allergy
to the same food. I think you can forget food allergies. What I
suspect is that the 2nd dog caught the infection from the first and
when you thought you got rid of it, it wasn't completely gone. It
came back later only to infect the 3rd dog also. I think the whole
thing began with the first dog and was transmitted down the line.

I don't have a clue what it is. It COULD be some kind of worms. If
not, it has to be an irritant in their enviornment or a bacterial
infection. I don't see how it could possibly be diet related. I
don't see it as allergy related.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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________________________________________________________________________

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