[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12449

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. tripe
From: atmanandadevotee
1.2. Re: tripe
From: costrowski75

2a. Meal frequency for "large" and active dogs?
From: Robert Ekendahl
2b. Re: Meal frequency for "large" and active dogs?
From: Dave Teetz
2c. Re: Meal frequency for "large" and active dogs?
From: Tina Berry
2d. Re: Meal frequency for "large" and active dogs?
From: ekendahl

3a. Re: Was: new member needs help getting started on raw/ Now : Deer Me
From: katkellm

4. Co-op in New Mexico
From: divasdesignerstore

5a. anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
From: spricketysprock
5b. anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
From: MORGAN LEWIS
5c. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
From: Giselle
5d. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
From: Sandee Lee
5e. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: Pics of my dogs eating raw used in anti-raw blog post
From: K Carolyn Ramamurti

7a. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
From: Alisha Johnson

8a. Re: Switch of Feeding now eating other dogs poops
From: Tina Berry

9a. Re: Raw Bacon
From: Sandee Lee
9b. Re: Raw Bacon
From: Laura Atkinson
9c. Re: Raw Bacon
From: Shelly

10. Hello & Intro
From: itissuki

11.1. Rabbit was Re: worms
From: becca1066

12a. Re: Scratched esophagus
From: Sandee Lee
12b. Re: Scratched esophagus
From: Jai

13a. Re: Gullet
From: costrowski75

14. How to fix/prevent toes turning out?
From: petartist1021

Messages
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1.1. tripe
Posted by: "atmanandadevotee" atmanandadevotee@yahoo.fr atmanandadevotee
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 1:33 pm ((PST))

unfortunatly, green tripe is not allowed in france, you can only buy
white tripe, is it worth it or not for the dog from a nutritional point
of vew ?
darshana

Messages in this topic (65)
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1.2. Re: tripe
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 4:32 pm ((PST))

"atmanandadevotee" <atmanandadevotee@...> wrote:
, you can only buy
> white tripe, is it worth it or not for the dog from a nutritional
point
> of vew ?
*****
Absolutely not. Spend your doggiedollars on other things!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (65)
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2a. Meal frequency for "large" and active dogs?
Posted by: "Robert Ekendahl" robert@ekendahl.org ekendahl
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 1:33 pm ((PST))

Hi,

How often do you think I should feed my white German Shepherds that are 14
months and 3 years. Currently I feed them 2/day and equal amount each time.
Something they are used to from their kibble days.

Both dogs are active and goes to doggie day-care 5/week and we do long
walks/plays on the weekend, so mostly they collapse when they are home.

I want to feed them in a for them satisfying way. My young dog seem to do
fine on 0.9 lbs twice a day (as both their ideal weight is 90 lbs), but for
my grown dog each meal seems a little small. I'm wondering if giving him one
large meal would satisfy him better? Problem is that as they go to day care
I don't want to feed them 1.8 lbs just before the Van picks them up, as they
might spend half the day digesting; but I'm not sure I can send them with an
empty stomach as well as they might throw up bile in the afternoon.

The little one is an efficient eater, he doesn't inhale food but works it
like a machine. In a way a beautiful thing BUT my grown dogs loves the
experience of eating (never seen this in an animal before)! When given a
cooked egg he will most of the time separate the white from the yellow, eat
all the boring white first before chewing the perfectly whole yellow. He
also likes to take his time with his raw food and first rip meat off before
eating the bones. So on one level I want to give him as much pleasure as I
can from his food, but I need to watch his weight (he could loose a few) so
he currently gets food for a 90lbs dog while weighing in at 100lbs.

So, given all this, how frequently would you feed my dogs?

As a side note, I'm personally not for feeding at different times each day.
I'm sure in the wild they wouldn't eat same time each day but in the wild
they could also hunt when they needed too not be trapped in a house/yard.
They already have so little control over their life so I prefer to give them
the knowledge that certain things work like clock work, be it the morning
walk or feeding times. I find they settle down better given this. My work
schedule also enforces regularity.

I would love to hear your opinions!

/Robert Ekendahl

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2b. Re: Meal frequency for "large" and active dogs?
Posted by: "Dave Teetz" dteetz@gmail.com dteetz
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 2:07 pm ((PST))

Robert,

I have a 16 month GSD and a 6 year old Golden Retriever. Both have always
been fed kibble twice a day. I elected to keep this schedule when I started
raw and got them off the dry food. In particular I did this to help prevent
bloat in the GSD. I had read several articles stating it is best to feed
multiple times per day in dogs that have a likelihood of bloat. Listers
taught me this was most likely a kibble issue and bloat is less likely to
happen in a raw-fed dog.

With insight from others I started feeding once a day to both. Feeding the
GR .75 pounds per meal was trying, so simply being able to throw all the
food in a bowl and go, I was pleased. Depending on what you feed, a bowl
may not even be necessary.

Between work, dogs and family I run into feeding time issues as well. The
advantage is I only have to feed on time a day now, so scheming time is no
longer needed. I've opted to not have a set time and they have quickly
stopped the bile vomit. One dog did a couple days after feeding once per
day, but that's it. The GR still comes in the kitchen every time I go
there, but he does that regardless of anything else that may be going on.

Good luck,

Dave

On Jan 2, 2008 4:15 AM, Robert Ekendahl <robert@ekendahl.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> How often do you think I should feed my white German Shepherds that are 14
> months and 3 years. Currently I feed them 2/day and equal amount each
> time.
> Something they are used to from their kibble days.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: Meal frequency for "large" and active dogs?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 2:13 pm ((PST))

"I want to feed them in a for them satisfying way. My young dog seem to do
fine on 0.9 lbs twice a day (as both their ideal weight is 90 lbs), but for
my grown dog each meal seems a little small."

I have a 3 yo male (95lbs) and a 2 yr old male (90lbs) - I feed once a day
at all different times of the day. This is so their stomach bile doesn't
get in an uproar expecting food at the exact same time daily. I feed the
95lber 1.25 lbs daily and the 90lber 1.50lbs daily.

I run all of my dogs 2 miles a day. 1 mile in the am and 1 mile in the pm
(playing fetch on a 1/2 acre, I don't run LOL)

This is what works for mine.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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2d. Re: Meal frequency for "large" and active dogs?
Posted by: "ekendahl" robert@ekendahl.org ekendahl
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 3:41 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tina Berry" <k9baron@...> wrote:

> I have a 3 yo male (95lbs) and a 2 yr old male (90lbs) - I feed once
a day
> at all different times of the day. This is so their stomach bile
doesn't
> get in an uproar expecting food at the exact same time daily. I
feed the
> 95lber 1.25 lbs daily and the 90lber 1.50lbs daily.

Wow, you are keeping your dogs on the thin side, as recommended weight
would be 1.8 lbs for a 90lbs dog. Do they really gain weight if you
feed them more?

I was hoping that cutting out the carbs (from the kibble) would help
them loose weigth even with larger portions sizes.

Guess I might have do do something similar for my grown dog if cutting
the carbs from his kibble doesn't help him loose weight.

>
> www.kriegshundgsds.com
>

I looked at your website and your dogs are beautiful. In a couple of
year when we might consider a 3rd shepherd I might contact you.

My white german shepherds are from http://www.geocities.com/braeheadk9
. My younger one from the "Dylan" line (a very successful working
dog). It's a very nice breeder that I'm in monthly contact with, and
who encouraged me to switch to Raw even if she doesn't use it (yet?)

/Robert Ekendahl

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Was: new member needs help getting started on raw/ Now : Deer Me
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 1:33 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, boswellrt@... wrote:
>
> We always have deer and I usually get it processed for us to eat
but a lot
> is wasted.

Hi Trish,
I have never gotten a deer as in the whole deer that someone hunted
for me. So, my help might not be too helpful. I go to the meat
locker where the hunters take the deer to become roasts...The people
there save the heads and the legs for me. As they trim the deer, they
throw tons of stuff into the trim barrels, and when i pick up the
heads and legs i bring my construction size garbage bags and put all
the trimmings in there. I have found that, unlike cow trimmings which
are almost all fat and are not worth taking, the deer trimmings have
very little fat and make excellent meals. So, i guess my thought
would be to ask them to save everything for you that they don't turn
into people food. If you are up to it, you could probably ask them if
they would mind if you took parts and trimmings from all the deer they
process. I have filled 2 freezers this year for free this way. HTH a
little anyways, KathyM

Messages in this topic (5)
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4. Co-op in New Mexico
Posted by: "divasdesignerstore" divasdesignerstore@yahoo.com divasdesignerstore
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 1:33 pm ((PST))

Hi Everyone,
I live in the Rio Rancho area of New Mexico and I am trying to get
together enough people in the Rio Rancho, Albuquerque, Corralles, and
surrounding areas to put together some bulk orders of raw food so that
we can benefit from the cost reduction. Please contact me for info or
with questions. Thanks so much! :) Or if anyone knows of an existing co-
op in this area please let me know.
Audrey

Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 2:06 pm ((PST))

Has anyone come across this website?
http://www.secondchanceranch.com/training/raw_meat/index.html

Just curious what your thoughts are...

Jess & Toby

Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
Posted by: "MORGAN LEWIS" shadowland22000@yahoo.com shadowland22000
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 2:40 pm ((PST))

Ph.D. in WHAT? Sounds like the clowns at the hospital my dad was ate. They threw a tantrum because I was bringing him a milk shake every day (with those candy pieces). Oh we don't know the amount he is drinking or the caloric content. well the answer to that was that I knew the caloric content of what they were feeding him (ZERO) because he would not eat it. And the milk shake was made at the hospital (Dairy Queen) size and caloric content available.

His Statement "most wolves are undernurished". is that due to quality or quantity of food. but he promotes "cooked Receipts" . One of my daughters does this; I have no major problems with it, as long as there are no cooked bones. Since I switched to RAW 3 1/2 years ago; I have had no health problems, no allergies, (I also stopped vaccines). My dogs are checked annually, cardiac, thyroid. My Vet is amazed, My dogs and I are happy. and our 1st natual, RAW pups will be born this Spring (no vaccines) So I have a very good use for this book. Use it like an "old" Sears and Robuck Catalogue. or better yet save the money and buy some good beef hearts. Morgan

Morgan and His Angels
Precious, OFA
Princess, CGC, TDI, GSDCA Health Award

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (5)
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5c. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 3:05 pm ((PST))

Oh, people mention it now and then......
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=secondchanceranch&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
*http://tinyurl.com/2jempb

**http://tinyurl.com/3bszzf

**http://tinyurl.com/2v59ug

**http://tinyurl.com/2s7lcn

*et al......

*http://tinyurl.com/2p85lw

*TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Jan 2, 2008 4:58 PM, spricketysprock <jess.hamway@gmail.com> wrote:

> Has anyone come across this website?
> http://www.secondchanceranch.com/training/raw_meat/index.html
>
> Just curious what your thoughts are...
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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5d. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 3:28 pm ((PST))

Hundreds of times...usual unfounded nonsense!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/35662
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/35725
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/35795
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/35821
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/35824
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/41164
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/33962
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/33963
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/27033

http://rawfed.com./myths/rebuttal.html

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@gmail.com>

Has anyone come across this website?
http://www.secondchanceranch.com/training/raw_meat/index.html

Messages in this topic (5)
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5e. Re: anti-raw website... curious as to your thoughts?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 4:39 pm ((PST))

"spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@...> wrote:>
> Has anyone come across this website?
> http://www.secondchanceranch.com/training/raw_meat/index.html
>
> Just curious what your thoughts are...
*****
Mostly unprintable.
I urge you to join Yahoogroups so you can browse the list archives.
This booschwa comes around once a month or so and each cycle is saved
in the archives. I want you to join Yahoogroups, go to the rawfeeding
homepage, then enter "secondchanchranch" in the search box and read
what comes up.

If you STILL have questions after your reading assignment is completed,
ask them and we'll see what we can do. Truly, the woman is not worth
the cyberspace it takes to discredit her.

Read the list archives.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Re: Pics of my dogs eating raw used in anti-raw blog post
Posted by: "K Carolyn Ramamurti" lilith23360@yahoo.com lilith23360
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 2:06 pm ((PST))

Your comment is there, Courtney. I could not help adding my own since I also raw feed my two dachsunds.

Carolyn in Seattle

Courtney <courtneypo@gmail.com> wrote:
Pics of my dogs eating lamb heads have been blogged at

http://dailydachshund.blogspot.com as an example of why the author is
against raw.

I'm not thrilled with this, but my photos do have a Creative Commons
license on them, which allows them to be used as long as I am given
proper credit.

I tried not to be too angry in my comment (lol) because I know we've
all been there, but I'm hoping this can open an informed,
non-confrontational discussion on the benefits of raw. Hopefully they
don't delete my comment!

http://dailydachshund.blogspot.com/2008/01/why-i-don-do-raw-feeding.html

Courtney Alieksaites
Dallas, TX

---------------------------------
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7a. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
Posted by: "Alisha Johnson" charlieschoicetreatco@yahoo.ca charlieschoicetreatco
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 2:06 pm ((PST))

I have a pug that I have been feeding raw for about 8 months now. She ALWAYS thinks she is starving...that never changed between kibble and the good food she gets now....and according to the majority of pug owners this is well known trait. I hate to burst your bubble but feeding one meal a day probably isn't going to change the fact that your pug...well...is a piggy...like all others of his kind. I feed twice a day and usually give a recreation bone just so she feels like she is eating AGAIN. I have thought of buying a whole roasting chicken just to see if she would ever get full....but I think I already know the answer...and that is she would eat until she exploded....I swear she can hear a crumb drop from a few miles away!
She is also a gulper and I have to really watch her when she eats....which I find quite repulsive actually...she slurps and hoarks and makes all sorts or god awful sounds....
but at least my kids don't have those manners. :)
Cheers,
Alisha

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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8a. Re: Switch of Feeding now eating other dogs poops
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 2:07 pm ((PST))

The dog who is doing the eating doesn't have anything missing in his diet,
he just smells food in the poop and is going after it like he would go after
any food anywhere he finds it."

This is funny too; well, not really - mine didn't eat poop when I had them
on raw chicken, now that they are on 100% venison since Sept - two of my 4
turned into poop eaters - they did the same thing last year when we switched
back to venision - GROSS!!!
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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9a. Re: Raw Bacon
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 3:37 pm ((PST))

Possibly fry it up and use for treats?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "adkjoe17" <j2dope17@yahoo.com>

I have two packages of Raw Bacon in my freezer. I don't eat bacon and
was going to give it away but I was wondering if I could feed it to my
pup. I havn't seen much talk about bacon and I would assume that you
wouldn't want to give much since it is so fatty but is it ok to add a
few raw slices of bacon to a couple of the dogs meals here and there
until it is gone? I wouldn't feed a whole meal of bacon or even on a
daily basis but every once and a while should be ok right?

Messages in this topic (4)
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9b. Re: Raw Bacon
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 4:00 pm ((PST))

Bacon is the *ultimate* high value treat for my dogs. I don't give anyone a
lot of it as with the curing process it's full of nitrates and I'm sure lots
of other crap. But for a treat, it's good stuff. And it's one I can stuff
in my mouth without shuddering while training or showing :-)

So, cook it up and freeze it so you have it handy (and we'll take all
further treat discussion to RawChat :-)

On Jan 2, 2008 12:23 PM, adkjoe17 <j2dope17@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I have two packages of Raw Bacon in my freezer. I don't eat bacon and
> was going to give it away but I was wondering if I could feed it to my
> pup. I havn't seen much talk about bacon and I would assume that you
> wouldn't want to give much since it is so fatty but is it ok to add a
> few raw slices of bacon to a couple of the dogs meals here and there
> until it is gone? I wouldn't feed a whole meal of bacon or even on a
> daily basis but every once and a while should be ok right?
>
> Joe
>
>
> --
> Laura A
> Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
> Send more trespassers, the last ones were delicious

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9c. Re: Raw Bacon
Posted by: "Shelly" stuartjlittle@verizon.net stuartjeanlittle
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 4:22 pm ((PST))

Bacon has a lot of salt and most bacon has nitrates and nitrites as well. We
have bacon every Sunday at our house (organic, nitrate free bacon, but salty
nonetheless). We always give the dogs each a piece, just as a special Sunday
treat. Our holistic (pro-raw) vet said it was fine in that small, infrequent
amount.

Shelly

On Wednesday 02 January 2008 15:23, adkjoe17 wrote:
I wouldn't feed a whole meal of bacon or even on a
daily basis but every once and a while should be ok right?

Joe

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10. Hello & Intro
Posted by: "itissuki" itissuki@gmail.com itissuki
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 3:41 pm ((PST))

Hi everyone,

I've been reading with enthusiasm the past week or so. Thanks for all the great
information. I began home cooking for my boxer & boston (both 4 year olds) last spring.
I've gradually been getting closer to raw, mainly by commercial grinds. However, I don't
even trust the pretty packaged, expensive raw diets and have finally decided to make the
plunge to a more appropriate diet. One particularly troublesome factor is the state of my
boston's mouth. He's already had 8 teeth pulled and my homeopathic vet warns that he
may need more in the coming years. Of course, with a raw diet I'll do my best to lesson
that chance.

I'm still reading and looking up on the archives at this point. Nonetheless, I do have a
couple questions if you wouldn't mind indulging! I plan on eventually feeding a small
morning meal that doesn't take much time like, liver, kidney, egg, chicken back or
boneless meat. I will have more time in the afternoon for the more complicated
masticating :-)

Here in the Northeast I'm 'lucky' to find a bottom round for $1.99/#. Ethan, my boxer
would be happy to gnaw on that until it's gone I'm sure. I'm guessing it's about the size of
his head, & I recall reading that I shouldn't go with anything smaller than his mellon?
Would I give them each one? I'm afraid they'll never stop eating! Ethan usually gets about
2# and Hansel 6 oz per day of food. Obviously, with those prices I'll have to do some
investigating.

I received a sample of chicken necks a couple months ago & finally was brave enough to
give one to each dog. Ethan ( 70# boxer) did give a cursory crunch but Hansel (12#
boston) swallowed it like a snake. I see now, that it is not a good choice for either, at least
at this point but perhaps a half breast. With that said, if I get a good deal on say, boneless
red meat, chicken, pork loin, do I cut it in cubes or let them suck it down? I'm still a bit
unclear how to deal with boneless meats since I gather ground meats are not optimal.

Thanks again for being so patient and it's nice to 'meat' all of you (said the vegetarian!).
Suki

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11.1. Rabbit was Re: worms
Posted by: "becca1066" becca1066@yahoo.com becca1066
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 3:41 pm ((PST))

I raise rabbits commercially -started to raw feed my dogs

1. Domestic rabbits raised on wire will not have worms. I dont know
of anyone who worms their rabbits -no need to. Worms would be
visible in the feces

2. Rabbits can have or carry coccidiosis. All animals carry
coccidiosis - there are species specific strains. Rabbits can get
it if exposed to their feces-this is why they are raised above the
ground on wire. Many breeders treat for coccidiosis. Rabbits with
coccidia, even to the point there are visible lesions in the liver,
are still edible, for people or animals. You should not butcher the
rabbits until 30 days after administering the cocciodiostat (time
for witrhdrawal varies depending on what is usesd) Exposure to
their feces is not the same as "cecotrophy" -rabbits actually eat
certain special feces directly form their anus-this is necessafy for
their health

3. There is sopme speculation that, BECAUSE we have selected for
rabbits that do well on a pelleted diet and have for 20+ years, they
will not do as well when fed a non-pelleted ration. This is
speculation, I know of no comparison study

4. Wild rabbits can carry tuleremia and this is transmissable to
humans, Wild rabbits should be handled with gloves. It is safe for
carnivores to eat

5. Many rabbit breeders use ivomec to treat for mites - it is of a
concern if it was administered orally to the rabbits and your dog is
sensative to it

Point - Know where your rabbits come from and how they are raised.
Ask what is used on them and how they are fed

becca

Messages in this topic (53)
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12a. Re: Scratched esophagus
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 3:55 pm ((PST))

Sue,

I have never heard of this happening. Suppose if one was feeding lots of
naked or cut bones with sharp edges it could...don't know how you would know
for sure. Most pork necks are quite bony unless they are whole. Lamb
bones...don't know exactly what that means? I will say that most people
feed far too much bone. Was that the cause of the problem? Guess we don't
know that! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "VBSUSAN" <vbsue@comcast.net>

Anyone have any experience with a scratched esophagus ... someone
emailed me today saying this had happened to their standard poodle as a
result of eating pork necks and lamb bones. She said it was both scary
and expensive. Perhaps the bones were not the cause ... how would you
ever know for sure? She is still rawfeeding but is only feeding ground
food now.

Messages in this topic (3)
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12b. Re: Scratched esophagus
Posted by: "Jai" jredwing@windstream.net onesupercat
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 4:22 pm ((PST))

Hi,
My dalmatian Boo had bladder surgery on Thanksgiving eve. His esophus
appparently was damaged with the tube during the surgery. He has not fully
recovered yet, can only eat ground turkey in tablespoon sized bites, and
warmed not chilled. Anything else he throws up. They said the lining of
his esophagus is like a brick road, and slimy, they have never seen anything
like it. They want to do another endoscope to look, but his bill is up to
$3800 now, with that being another $1000.
So this does not answer your question about a scratched one, but definately
Boo's must have been scratched. So it can happen.
Jai...>^.^<...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandee Lee" <rlee@plix.com>

> Sue,
>
> I have never heard of this happening. Was that the cause of the problem?
> Guess we don't
> know that! :)
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "VBSUSAN" <vbsue@comcast.net>
>
>
> Anyone have any experience with a scratched esophagus ...

Messages in this topic (3)
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13a. Re: Gullet
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 4:29 pm ((PST))

Laura Wimpey <laura.wimpey@...> wrote:
>
> FYI - I ordered the same gulletts from hare today two weeks ago. My
kids LOVED em and it was a nice meaty meal. They were pretty big - 1 +
lb each.
*****
To help others who may not remember what sort of dogs are being fed, we
all need to remember to provide a reference for comparison. For
example, a pound gullet for my retrievers that are fed big food every
other day is not a nice meaty meal. But for a Chi or a toy poodle, a
one pound gullet would be a stunning challenge.

Thanks!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (11)
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14. How to fix/prevent toes turning out?
Posted by: "petartist1021" mwmbox@iinet.net.au petartist1021
Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 4:48 pm ((PST))

Hi everyone

I have a five month old male BC (pedigree) who I transitioned to raw
from 9 weeks of age, he also gets a small handful of good quality
kibble four or five times per week (just in case I miss anything).

The problem I am having is that his toes/lower legs are turning out,
and I want to know what role diet (can play in this - as in what can I
do to fix it? I don't think this is a genetics issue, (both parents
hip and elbow e-rayed with no issues) so I think I am doing something
wrong, or not getting his amounts correct.

He still gets three meals per day, although occasionally only morning
and night if the RMB's are 'meal and a half size'.

He is big for his age - at five months most people guess him to be 9
months+, his mum was big so that is probably genetic. I keep him on
the lean (not skinny) side, as advised by BC experts.

Over a week he gets chicken/lamb livers (daily), chicken frames with
lots of meat or chicken drumsticks/quarters, turkey size chicken
necks, whole big sardines/mackeral/other fish 2-4 times per week, lamb
hearts, lamb necks, lamb kidney, kangaroo muscle meat, beef RMB's,
lamb flap/offcuts, probably 5% if that total table scraps, an
occosional egg, tiny cheese or sausage pieces for training.

I try to vary everything, basing it on muscle/bone/organ meat as per a
prey animal at least in a rough way - I don't weigh and measure, but
maybe I need to?

Virtually all his food except the kangaroo meat is cheaper quality
(read higher fat content than more expensive human food)
human consumption meat because raw dog food is not easy to get around
here.

I supplement him with fish oil (good quality suitable one), Evening
primrose oil and ester C 625mg, usually one meal per day but I do miss
a couple of times per week (just in case he is getting too much).

He gets regular daily excercise - mostly free play, chasing tennis
balls, swimming and walking on lead - nothing strenuous, but enough to
keep his energy levels under control (he is a Border COllie after
all). Try to avoid any jumping, but again he is a Border Collie -
active, exhuberant and very fast, so jumping does occur occasionally
(short of hobbling him I couldn't stop these occasional jumps).

I think I have covered everything:)

Any help or suggestions appreciated!

Thanks

Michelle

Messages in this topic (1)
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