[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12457

There are 10 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: worried
From: carnesbill
1.2. Re: worried
From: T Smith

2a. raw feeding success
From: monicabeth10
2b. Re: raw feeding success
From: Andrea

3a. Help! Only tolerates chicken qtrs.
From: riceaide
3b. Re: Help! Only tolerates chicken qtrs.
From: Andrea

4a. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
From: Virginia Snider

5a. Re: Dogs eating after each other a problem or concern ???
From: Mal Firth

6a. Re: Veg... It seems I;m preaching to the deaf sometimes!
From: woofwoofgrrl
6b. Re: Veg... It seems I;m preaching to the deaf sometimes!
From: Evie

Messages
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1.1. Re: worried
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:13 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "scarebetty" <scarebetty@...> wrote:
>
> I was just wondering if anyone that has been feeding raw for a
> long time has ever had any of their dogs just die from the
> scary things that we are all told about from naysayers, such as
> a perforated stomach, etc?

Anytime a dog dies from an unknown cause you should always have a
necropsy done. Yes it cost a few dollars but just to have him die and
not know why doesn't make sense to me.

I knew one woman a year or so ago that had a dog die from what she and
the vet THOUGHT MIGHT BE MAYBE POSSIBLY either a perforated stomach or
a blockage. There wasn't an necropsy done to verify the cause of
death. It really irks me when someone like her automatically blames
the diet but won't try to verify the exact cause of death. BTW: She
is still feeding raw to her dogs.

That is the only dog I know of that even remotely MIGHT, MAYBE,
POSSIBLY, COULD HAVE died from an ingested bone problem. I don't
think that was the cause of death.

If a dog dies of a perforated stomach or an intestinal blockage, you
will know he is sick for several days. He will be in a lot of pain,
he won't eat and will probably will be vomiting bile and will be
laying around a lot. With either one of those problems, you don't
just go out and find a dead dog one morning that was healthy the night
before.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (28)
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1.2. Re: worried
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:13 pm ((PST))

Are they doing a necropsy?
Sounds more like heart disease or the likes if there were NO signs.
please keep us updated.
Trina

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (28)
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2a. raw feeding success
Posted by: "monicabeth10" monicabeth10@yahoo.com monicabeth10
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:57 pm ((PST))

+++Mod note; pls sign all emails +++++

I've been feeding my new adopted shelter dog a raw diet for about
three weeks now, since I got her. She has had some minor problems:
lots of itchiness, giardia, ear infection, not to mention obviously
recovering from having a litter recently. Poor Dora dog was so skinny
when I got her.

But things are improving. She was previously on an organic kibble and
according to the fosters, not very much of an eater. Well, that has
certainly changed! She has been slamming back raw chicken and turkey
like there's no tomorrow. Her coat is getting shinier, she is gaining
a bit of weight (still a long way to go). Yesterday she had her first
beef heart. Not too crazy about it initially (really likes the
poultry!) but with insistence, she ate her portions yesterday and today.

I have a couple of questions. First, I got oxtails from a friend who
raises cattle. Are these safe? Dora is a very slow eater, crunches
bones thoroughly. Just wondering.

Second, how important is tripe? I have read this is important. And
what is the difference between green and white tripe?

Messages in this topic (2)
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2b. Re: raw feeding success
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:57 am ((PST))

I'm glad things are going well for you two!

> I got oxtails from a friend who raises cattle. Are these safe?

If they are whole oxtails they are great. In the grocery store they
have packages of cut oxtail sections which are way too small for my
dogs. The oxtail isn't generally meaty so you can either treat it as
chew time fun or add some meaty meat to make a meal of it.

> Second, how important is tripe?

Not important in the way that liver is important. It's nice if you can
get it, but there's no need to break the bank over it. The white stuff
they sell in any supermarket is sanitized for human consumption and has
lost all nutritional value, don't bother with it.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Help! Only tolerates chicken qtrs.
Posted by: "riceaide" riceaide@yahoo.com riceaide
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:57 pm ((PST))

+++Mod note; pls sign all emails +++++

Hi,
My dog (8 1/2 y/o possibly GSD mix, ~75lbs)has suffered from
gastritis for many years. In April she got sick from recalled
kibble, and I began cooking all her food. Brown rice, chicken,
vitamins, carrots, bone meal powder. She was okay for a while, but a
few months ago began having VERY loose stools. I had raw feeders
reccommend I stop the brown rice, so I started giving potatoes, and
her diarrhea cleared up. I tried raw chicken quarters, and the first
night I was woken by her vomiting. The following days she had blood
in her stools, followed by bloody diarrhea, and finally just passing
drips of blood. I had seen this before, and knew it was her
gastritis. Another raw feeder suggested trying enyzmes. I have done
so for a few weeks, and she gradually got to the point of eating
almost exclusively raw chicken quarters with little problem. I cut
out the potatoes, and added salmon oil. So, now, thinking variety
is good, I tried a tiny amount of raw beef. She has never done well
on kibble with any protein source other than chicken, but I hoped
the actual meat would have different results. The day following the
little bit of beef: bloody diarrhea. A few days later, I tried an
even smaller amount of beef (fat trimmed both times): bloody
diarrhea. Okay, I think the beef does not agree with her. I've also
tried chicken livers. Admittedly, I'm not sure how much is
the "right" amount. I tried a half of a raw chicken liver 1 day.
Seemed okay. I'm trying to get her to put on a little weight, so
tried a whole chicken liver a couple days ago. SHe woke me up that
night to run outside with diarrhea, which progressed to bloody
diarrhea, and the next day more diarrhea AND vomiting bile.
Okay, fasted her a day to calm stomach. Gave cooked chicken and
potatoes today (which experience has shown to help her gastritis
symptoms). Now what??? She could eat cooked livers in the past.
What's up with the raw? What about other protein sources? She was
so miserable the past few days. First the beedf than the liver.
Poor her! I hate seeing her sad, but can she do okay on nothing but
raw chicken quarters (with little bits of weird organ -like
attachments) and salmon oil? That doesn't seem right.
Sorry for the long post, but I'm not sure how to proceed....

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Help! Only tolerates chicken qtrs.
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:49 am ((PST))

You said that you cut out the potato, are you still giving the
vitamins, carrots and bone meal powder? When you gave the bit of
beef how big was the bit? I would suggest starting with nothing
larger than thumbnail size since she has proven to be so sensitive to
new things. If that goes down ok keep feeding the same size piece
with her regular meals for a while and slooooowly increase the piece
of food. You may want to start with pork instead of beef with your
next protein. You don't necessarily want her to eat only chicken
forever but you don't have to rush into variety. I hope that helps a
bit.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "riceaide" <riceaide@...> wrote:

> So, now, thinking variety is good, I tried a tiny amount of raw
> beef. She has never done well on kibble with any protein source
> other than chicken, but I hoped the actual meat would have
> different results. The day following the little bit of beef: bloody
> diarrhea. A few days later, I tried an even smaller amount of beef
> (fat trimmed both times): bloody diarrhea. Okay, I think the beef
> does not agree with her.

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
Posted by: "Virginia Snider" vsnider@cogeco.ca rawbglass
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 5:44 am ((PST))

At first my pug went into super hungry gear. I thought he was still hungry
and at first gave him more which of course he would devour. I think it was
more that real meat was so much tastier then kibboard. Now I give him 2
offerings, but he usually skips the morning one. I guess the novelty has
worn off or he realized he is getting more of the good stuff and it's not
just a treat.

If he sees me eating that is a whole nuther ballgame, he wants to see if I
have something better :-) he gets a bone to chew or I stuff his kong with
something to keep him occupied.

My dog is very mouth chewy oriented, (if that's a term), probably since he
gulps food down quickly he doesn't get the chewy time/satisfaction.

If I don't give him something he will then go for the shoes/paper/clothes
which I have to take off him and give him something chew appropriate.

If I make sure his 30 minute Chewfest need is met then he leaves everything
alone.

HTH,

Virginia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (15)
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5a. Re: Dogs eating after each other a problem or concern ???
Posted by: "Mal Firth" firth_malcolm@yahoo.co.uk firth_malcolm
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 5:44 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rosey031801" <rosey031801@...>
wrote:
>
> I have a question for those of you with LOTS of experience in this. I
> have an old (18) beagle making the switch. He sometimes leaves some
> left overs in the yard. My ten year old dog may eat the same peice he
> ate on. Is there anything I should worry about with this....
....Any advice?
> Thanks,
> Cheryl
>
> PS My dog is very healthy!
>
I have two Border Collies, one if which (Sam) is very greedy whilst the
other (Brett) will regulate how much he eats. There have been quite a
few times when I have given Sam the left-overs when Brett has decided
he's had enough. Occasionally Brett will hork up what he has eaten
(last time he did was when I gave him a frozen mackeral) and if he
doesn't re-eat it straight away Sam will push him out of the way and
eat it for him ;-) Gross I know but Sam just regards it as an
unexpected bonus ;-) They have been eating raw this way now for about
18 months and both dogs are in excellent health.

Mal Firth

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: Veg... It seems I;m preaching to the deaf sometimes!
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 5:44 am ((PST))

Frightningly, the force feeding of horses and cows feed with horse and
cow remnants mixed in is the primary cause of the spread of Mad Cow disease.

Christine

Pi wrote:
>
>
> Chia wrote:
> >
> > ### maybe we should start force feeding horses and cows raw meat...they
> > must need the protein & fat? sheesh...
> > Chia & Ricco
>
> I actually often say that to people who start on the veg thing with me
> and it's one of the more successful comments. Once people look at it
> that way it makes more sense to them. Of course, if they're totally
> stuck on the idea that a dog is an omnivore then it doesn't work :(
>
> -Anna +Pirate

Messages in this topic (11)
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6b. Re: Veg... It seems I;m preaching to the deaf sometimes!
Posted by: "Evie" archie.willow@yahoo.co.uk archie.willow
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 5:44 am ((PST))

Ah, You see these people (and one in particular) insists that we must
puree the veg for the dogs. Since clearly the dog cannot digest the
vet unless it's pureed... using a comment about stomach contents of
prey..

I point out that prey will only have grasses and herbs in it's belly,
certainly not the types of things they are suggesting we prepare for
the dogs.... and that stomach contents are rarely eaten.

But no; I'm condemming my dogs to ill health it seems. :rolleyes:

Thanks for your replies; I will pass on the info....
But feel I'm going to give up on this particular debate real soon.

Evie
x

Messages in this topic (11)
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