[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12458

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Bought today..
From: Andrea

2a. Re: raw feeding success
From: carnesbill

3a. Re: Allergies?
From: Carrin
3b. Re: Allergies?
From: costrowski75

4a. Question from semi-newbie
From: Annette
4b. Re: Question from semi-newbie
From: Andrea

5a. Re: RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: Allergy
From: costrowski75

7a. small dog - new
From: zooper50
7b. Re: small dog - new
From: Andrea

8a. Newbie/Lurker question
From: Sherri Johnson
8b. Re: Newbie/Lurker question
From: Chia
8c. Re: Newbie/Lurker question
From: Tina Berry
8d. Re: Newbie/Lurker question
From: Andrea

9. Raw feeding 2 weeks
From: Ashleigh Stevenson

10.1. Re: worried
From: scarebetty

11a. Re: Veg... It seems I;m preaching to the deaf sometimes!
From: Darjeelingirl
11b. Re: Veg... It seems I;m preaching to the deaf sometimes!
From: Chia
11c. Re: Veg... It seems I;m preaching to the deaf sometimes!
From: Evie

12a. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
From: divasdesignerstore
12b. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
From: costrowski75
12c. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
From: ginny wilken

13a. Chicken issues???
From: dario
13b. Re: Chicken issues???
From: costrowski75

14a. Re: Help! Only tolerates chicken qtrs.
From: riceaide

Messages
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1a. Re: Bought today..
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:07 am ((PST))

Hi, Prism, sounds like you ended up with a good amount of stuff.
Pork rib bones could be baby back, spare ribs? For a Maltese any
kind of pork ribs should be ok.

Your boy should have no problem consuming any of the chicken bones,
but you'll have to determine for yourself whether or not you want to
feed the neck or lone wings. I would imagine that a dog of his size
should be ok eating them but if he isn't a very polite eater you may
want to stash the questionable items in the freezer for a later
date. IMO you shouldn't cut up the neck.

Good for you not buying the supermarket tripe. The white stuff is
for human consumption and doesn't have much nutritional use anymore.
You're doing great, let us know how things go.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Betty" <prismkitten@...> wrote:

> I gave my Maltese the meaty thigh bone today which he readily ate
> all up. Did you say he can or can't have the meaty leg bones, neck,
> back? If I recall he can have the back but it's not very meaty, and
> the neck (which makes me nervous) and should I cut up the neck
> bones or just give as one piece?

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: raw feeding success
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:11 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "monicabeth10" <monicabeth10@...>
wrote:
>
> I have a couple of questions. First, I got oxtails from a friend who
> raises cattle. Are these safe?

As long as it's the whole tail and not chopped up into little bits,
its safe.

> Second, how important is tripe?

Not at all. I have never fed it in my life.

> I have read this is important.

Some people try to make it a superfood but it's not.

> And
> what is the difference between green and white tripe?
>
Green tripe is unprocessed and has a few nutrients in it. White tripe
is processed and has NO nutrients.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: Allergies?
Posted by: "Carrin" mntgrl_2000@yahoo.com mntgrl_2000
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:12 am ((PST))

Uhoh...maybe I should have done more homework before starting. I'm
pretty sure that it is an allergy to something in his environment (when
we are on vacation, he doesn't itch). I just assumed that raw would
help his body cope better with allergies in general.

Poor guy....I am so frustrated for the itchy guy!

Carrin

Messages in this topic (9)
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3b. Re: Allergies?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:38 am ((PST))

"Carrin" <mntgrl_2000@...> wrote:
>I just assumed that raw would
> help his body cope better with allergies in general.
*****
It certaily can. How long have you been feeding raw and have you also
addressed environmental irritants? You can't get anywhere without a
good species appropriate diet but that alone is rarely the solution to
all problems.

I know I was very fortunate that my golden's allergies dried up and
blew away when I moved him to raw food--in following six years he had
maybe one hot spot and no more hives or rashy tummies--but I also
stopped vaccinating him and quit poisoning him. It all works together
and it does invariably take at least some time.

To over simplify, perhaps consider this: Raw food as a weapon against
food allergies works immediately by ridding the diet of inappropriate
food (or foodlike substances) and replacing the junk with high quality,
easily-digested proteins. That's the first volley, the quick fix.

But good species appropriate food also helps rebuild the immune system
(along with environment management) by working from within. This is
the long term project, the rebuilding after the war, the reassembling
of the infrastructure. It takes time.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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4a. Question from semi-newbie
Posted by: "Annette" SLib700@aol.com annettedeutsch
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:13 am ((PST))

Hi everyone! My 8 year old 26lb. dachshund has now been on raw for
about 3 weeks.So far so good I guess. Her poops are still quite soft
and she's been itching a bit although I don't know if the itching could
be due to the dry air.I feed her a chickendrumstick and some pieces of
steak.I still braise the chicken for just a few seconds before giving
it to her to bring out the flavor more. Am I feeding enough and could I
also give her some lean ground beef or some pork chops? I've been
reading posts on fish oil,how do give that? Mine will not take capsules
no matter how I give them to her,even if they wrapped in meat she will
take it but then spit out the capsule.Thanks in advance for your
advice! Annette.

Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. Re: Question from semi-newbie
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:42 am ((PST))

The general guideline for feeding is about 2-3% of the ideal body
weight per day. After that starting point you adjust to see what looks
good on the dog. If she's on the chunky side and not leaning out you
may want to decrease the food, if she's losing weight that she doesn't
need to you can increase the food.

> could I also give her some lean ground beef or some pork chops?

Ground beef doesn't have much to offer since there is no chewing
required. I don't buy it unless it is on super duper sale. Pork would
be a good protein to go to if she's good with the beef and chicken, but
I wouldn't use pork chops. The cut bone can have sharp edges and
depending on the size of the dog it could be a choking hazard. I have
much more luck with pork roasts or slabs of ribs when they are on sale.

> I've been reading posts on fish oil,how do give that? Mine will not
> take capsules no matter how I give them to her

Have you tried giving her fish oil capsules yet? Many dogs who aren't
fans of pills happily take fish oil capsules. My cats not so much, so
I have to pierce the gelcap and squeeze some of the oil out before they
will eat it. You could also get the oil in liquid form and squirt it
onto the food.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: RAW causing sking issues? (LONG POST)
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:49 am ((PST))

"vickies_28" <vickies_28@...> wrote:
But I do feed a lot of chiken,
> since it's a good bone source and he digests it well. So I am
> wondering if we are all getting the same problem from chicken.
****
It's possible but you won't know if chicken is your dog's problem til
you stop feeding it for a while. If his symptoms diminish you might
assume the cause was the chicken; but if other influences in his life
were also changed you might not have as clear a picture as you would
like.

Certainly leave off the chicken for now; doing something is better than
doing nothing in this case. Also consider what environmental irritants
may be at work.

You should also, in the bigger picture, work to get variety into his
diet. A chicken-heavy menu isn't necessarily the worst thing in the
world but it sure can be improved.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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6a. Re: Allergy
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:07 am ((PST))

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
> We still can use the protin source that dog hashad before?? I
thought we couldn't.
*****
The "novel" meat protein comes into play if the dog responds badly to
all the meat proteins it is normally fed.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (14)
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7a. small dog - new
Posted by: "zooper50" zooper1@juno.com zooper50
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:47 am ((PST))

What bones are small enough and "good" enough to give a 4 lb. dog?

Teri

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: small dog - new
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 9:51 am ((PST))

At first a tiny dog may not be able to do much damage to anything
larger than small chickens or cornish game hens. As time goes on the
jaw strength will increase and larger bones might be consumed. The
good thing is you can give large bones to a little'un even if they
won't consume the bone. I'd imagine that many pork bones would be too
big to consume as well as deer, some goat, etc. But you never know how
strong the little guys can be.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "zooper50" <zooper1@...> wrote:
>
> What bones are small enough and "good" enough to give a 4 lb. dog?

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Newbie/Lurker question
Posted by: "Sherri Johnson" edana@shaw.ca edanaaussie
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:48 am ((PST))

Hi All,

I have been lurking and learning here for awhile and started bringing some of the info I was getting back to hubby.just before Christmas. He wasn't into the idea of raw feeding but is getting used to it now. Especially since I brought home our new family member. She is a 9 week old Brittany Spaniel pup (8 lbs). Bliss (the pup) is being fed Natures Variety (add a .com for their website) and loves their rabbit formula. I want to switch her as well as my Aussies (ranging from 1-8 years and 30-48 lbs) over to raw. My aussies do get chicken/turkey necks and backs as well as they absolutely love beef liver. And of course thier kibble (Purina ProPlan Preformance).
My worry is that hubby only wants to buy prepackaged stuff. He is not open to the idea of feeding bones (unless they are knuckle bones) to the pup.
Where can I go to show him the difference in prepackaged raw versus barf raw?

Thanks in advance and I really love this list. Many new ideas!!

Sherri Johnson
http://www.edana.ca

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Messages in this topic (4)
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8b. Re: Newbie/Lurker question
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 9:03 am ((PST))

Hi All,

I have been lurking and learning here for awhile and started bringing some
of the info I was getting back to hubby.just before Christmas. He wasn't
into the idea of raw feeding but is getting used to it now. Especially since
I brought home our new family member. She is a 9 week old Brittany Spaniel
pup (8 lbs). Bliss (the pup) is being fed Natures Variety (add a .com for
their website) and loves their rabbit formula. I want to switch her as well
as my Aussies (ranging from 1-8 years and 30-48 lbs) over to raw. My aussies
do get chicken/turkey necks and backs as well as they absolutely love beef
liver. And of course thier kibble (Purina ProPlan Preformance).

##### congratulations on your new puppy! It is so odd, I am not sure,
exactly, why MEN seem to always have issues with raw feeding. I suppose it
is because women are a bit more pro-active in the health of themselves,
their children, and their pets. I know that doesn't apply to all, BUT, it
seems, always, that husbands etc are always a royal pain in the #@#^ . ;-))

Nature's Variety must be some sort of ground concoction? This is NOT
appropriate food for your little carnivore. Your husband objects because he
just doesn't have the knowledge of how a dog's body digest and eliminates
food. Once one becomes empowered with knowledge, it is VERY obvious that
feeding a particular species appropriate for what they were meant to digest
in nature is the BEST for them, period.

Check out and read ALL the links @ www.rawfeddogs.com and MOST if not ALL of
his and your questions will be answered. Make sure and read all about the
damages of vaccines there as well since you should be questioning not just
what you feed but the other chemicals and poisons that mainstream vets harm
our beautiful pets with.

I am unsure as to why you say 'of course' their kibble. Kibble is toxic
garbage, much like feeding your children junk food. There is NOTHING
positive about feeding it whatsoever. It is chemicals, dyes, cooked
protein, and sugars/grains. Feeding raw and kibble in unison usually
creates digestive stress and your dog has no way of telling you. Tampering
with nature predisposes animals to unnatural outcomes when ALL of this can
be avoided by just feeding fresh, raw, REAL foods.

Imagine a Wolf...imagine Wolf puppies. See the Mom bringing or
regurgitating up hunks and slabs of meat for a younger pup. Once your pup
is slightly older, she can have whole carcasses or VERY large pieces but it
is best too feed fairly large, right from the get-go, so your pup can learn
how to rip, tear, chomp. This not only warms up those stomach acids,
something that NEVER happens with ground crap, but it creates a contented,
tired pup, and will eventually assist her with those baby teeth coming out
without anyone's assistance.

So, read up....Purchase whole chickens, lop into half, then maybe a quarter,
and feed it to her three times per day until gone. Stick with that for a
week or two before introducing new proteins or organs. This is simple.
Expensive pre-ground mixes have things added to it that are NOT appropriate
and the meal itself is TOO quickly consumed and completely non-beneficial in
any way.

Chia & Ricco

(p.s. knuckle bones should NEVER be given...tooth damage just waiting to
happen. Your husband and yourself just need to read up and trust nature.
Remember, there are THOUSANDS of us here that do this every day. You will
NOT find people, anywhere else, who love their dogs and make sure they get
the very best ,as you will here. Most of us plan, shop appropriately, do
not give chemicals and drugs, and stand up to mainstream society's warped
view of appropriate health care)

My worry is that hubby only wants to buy prepackaged stuff. He is not open
to the idea of feeding bones (unless they are knuckle bones) to the pup.
Where can I go to show him the difference in prepackaged raw versus barf
raw?

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Messages in this topic (4)
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8c. Re: Newbie/Lurker question
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:11 am ((PST))

"My worry is that hubby only wants to buy prepackaged stuff. He is not open
to the idea of feeding bones (unless they are knuckle bones) to the pup."

Congrats on your new puppy. Pre-packaged stuff is not only expensive, but
lots of the fillers they use (ie. fruits/veggies) are simply not needed.
Knuckle bones for an adult dog will break their teeth and/or grind them down
to nubs over time. For a pup, they may not cause much damage but are simply
for recreation, not nutrition.

Keep it simple - buy whatever is on sale. If you live where there are
butchers, meat processors, hunters, the best to feed is wild game. If this
is not an option, then my first choice is turkey on sale. I've also fed 50%
whole chickens (no additives, hormones) and 50% beef heart for a year when I
lived in the city.

Currently mine get 100% venison, a daily egg and fishoil - that's it. Every
few days they get a rack of ribs as my venison is meat only, no bone, in
8lbs bags of scraps from the butcher.

Good luck with your new pup - and remember to keep it simple; raw should be
easy.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (4)
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8d. Re: Newbie/Lurker question
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:17 am ((PST))

I think the lure of prepackaged food is that people still feel it
is "balanced" for what their dog needs. He is probably concerned
that it would be too hard to get that same "balance" all on your
own. You could compare the premade stuff to ensure or baby formula
or even the packaged meals from weight watchers. Technically those
contain all the vitamins and minerals people need, but are they as
good as real food without the who knows what in them? Yeah, the
prepackaged stuff seems easier to deal with, but there are some real
serious drawbacks that you could point out to him:

1. The stuff is ground and doesn't do anything for dental health and
does nothing to mentally stimulate the dog.

2. There are all kinds of unnecessary ingredients including
vegetables and supplements that not only take up space but can cause
allergic reactions in some dogs.

3. Most mixes have way too much bone and veggies, not enough meat.
The dog ends up eating more in order to get the same amount of
nutrition they should get from whole parts.

4. They are insanely expensive. Point out how much they cost per
pound and let him know that many people feed their dogs for around $1
per pound.

At least he's coming around, he just might take some time to get all
the way there. My bf was wary about raw feeding at first, but when
he watched our little puppy rock out a chicken quarter it all made
sense to him. Now he's proud to feed the dogs big hunks of food and
watch them rip tear and crunch their food. You could alwas ask him
to tell you why he feels prepackaged is better than whole. Once he
tells you what his hangups are we can work on helping him get over
them. Good luck.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sherri Johnson <edana@...> wrote:

> My worry is that hubby only wants to buy prepackaged stuff. He is
not open to the idea of feeding bones (unless they are knuckle bones)
to the pup.
> Where can I go to show him the difference in prepackaged raw versus
barf raw?

Messages in this topic (4)
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9. Raw feeding 2 weeks
Posted by: "Ashleigh Stevenson" ashleighstevenson30@yahoo.com ashleighstevenson30
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:49 am ((PST))

I have been raw feeding now for 2 weeks......
My two malamutes could not be happier. They are 10 mo and 8mo, I have had problems with them having supposed 'sensitive stomaches' since we got them. My vet had me put them on prescription food which is terrible when you read the ingredients list. Any way , on kibble we had lots of pudding poop to clean up every day. Since raw no pudding poop, it is amazing how excited you can get watching your dog have a solid poop for the first time ! Let's hope the neighbours didn't see us .......

Ashleigh
Nanuq and Siku

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Messages in this topic (1)
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10.1. Re: worried
Posted by: "scarebetty" scarebetty@yahoo.com scarebetty
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:49 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Betty,
>
> While this is a horrible tragedy, I don't know why you would even
think this
> has anything to do with diet. Appropriate diet does not kill dogs.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
>
>

Sandy,

I dont know anything about dogs just dying all of a sudden. I dont
think that the dog died from an appropriate diet, but I just wanted
some of you that have fed raw for so long to tell me whether you have
ever had that experience.
We just recently had a long discussion on our breeds website about
feeding raw and I know all the 'come-backs' for the people who are
against prey model diet. I did a good job of denying all of the myths
that they came up with, but I didnt want someone saying that the dog
died from prey model diet without me having some backup from you
people that have fed raw for so long. They have not said anything
about the raw, but I know that someone will blame the diet. There is
one dingbat that has been feeding raw for a good while and she posted
on the website that she was 'forced' to start feeding raw because of
her dogs skin problems. Her dog is doing great, but she says that she
will go back to kibble when her dog 'outgrows' his allergies. It's
just stupid people like that that will come on and say 'I told you
so.' I want to be able to reassure my friends that a dog doesnt just
up and die from a bone perforating its stomach.
I dont know if they did any kind of test on the dog after she died. I
havent pushed any questions. I just gave them my sympathy and let it
go. The dog has been dead since right after Christmas and I just
found out about it.

Bill,
Thanks for your response about the symptoms of the perforated stomach.
I am pretty sure that they just went out there and she was dead. She
was a young dog and it was totally unexpected. Had the dog shown any
signs of being very sick, I know that they would have taken the dog to
the vet.

I appreciate everyones response. I hope that they will continue to
feed prey model. I know that I will continue, as I dont think it was
the diet that was to blame. If anyone else has any experiences, I
would like to hear them.
Thanks,
Betty

Messages in this topic (29)
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11a. Re: Veg... It seems I;m preaching to the deaf sometimes!
Posted by: "Darjeelingirl" darjeelingirl@comcast.net zoookeeeper
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:52 am ((PST))

>>>>Since clearly the dog cannot digest the
>>>>vet unless it's pureed...

tee hee hee - subconscious slip here? wishful thinking.?

a good laugh ;-)

Patsy

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Messages in this topic (14)
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11b. Re: Veg... It seems I;m preaching to the deaf sometimes!
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 9:04 am ((PST))

>>>>Since clearly the dog cannot digest the
>>>>vet unless it's pureed...

tee hee hee - subconscious slip here? wishful thinking.?

a good laugh ;-)

#### that is too funny, although most vets wouldn't puree too easily...

Chia & Ricco

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11c. Re: Veg... It seems I;m preaching to the deaf sometimes!
Posted by: "Evie" archie.willow@yahoo.co.uk archie.willow
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:16 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Chia <chia.m@...> wrote:
> tee hee hee - subconscious slip here? wishful thinking.?
>
> a good laugh ;-)
>
> #### that is too funny, although most vets wouldn't puree too
easily...
>
> Chia & Ricco

Lol, I think perhaps just proof that I'm spending way too much time
furiously typing away on my keyboard here.
Glad it gave you guys a giggle, as it did me when you pointed it
out. (Not that I would ever advocate pureed vet as a feed for your
dogs; besides it ain't good for the blender!)

Well I typed up my last reply in the veg debate, including alot of
the info you guys helped provide, Thank you. ;o)
I added the line at the bottom about feeding horses and cows meat and
bone, with a wee wink to show it was not to be taken seriously.....

Well I was accussed of sarcasim (spl?) and vulgarity. So I politely
declinded to take part in the disscussion any further. When someone
is reduced to name calling, it just shows that they have nothing of
intelligence to say and aren't open for an interesting and
enlightening debate. Def not worth the effort!

Thanks Guys.
Evie
xx

Messages in this topic (14)
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12a. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
Posted by: "divasdesignerstore" divasdesignerstore@yahoo.com divasdesignerstore
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:11 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Susano" <tekritesue@...> wrote:
>
> I won't get into the veggies/no veggies debate, but I'll just agree
> that pugs don't have an "I'm full" sensor. They want to eat all the
> time.

* I think you are right there but I also think that when you are
switching from a kibble diet to a raw appropriate diet it is a shock
to their stomach. Because on some of those kibble bags their
recommended feeding amount is like 2-3 cups for a 20-30 pound dog.
And they get used to that amount. But then when you switch them over
to a more bio available diet that they don't need tons of it to use
it's a big difference. My 30 pound dog only gets about a pound of
food a day. They are also supposed to be on a diet. ;)
But going from 2-3 cups of food to 1/2 pound twice a day or a pound
once a day. Their stomaches have got to be saying "hey where's the
rest?" therefore they don't get that "full" feeling that they are
accustomed too.
And just for the record it was a suggestion by my vet to use the
veggies I don't usually feed them but because my pug has arthritis
issues and he is just so overweight it hurts him to do much of
anything and getting the weight off has been challenging.
We literally had to cut his food in half and I guess I feel bad that
I am the one who put himn in this situation!
Anyone with diet suggestions would be so appreciated????
Hard to exercise him much with his leg but we try a little walk once
a day. Weather permitting of course ;)

>It's tempting
> to give in, but I do as Chris O suggested you do and ignore the
little
> beggers. Yes, they think it's food time whenever I open the fridge,
> but I just tell them to get lost. If they're being really annoying I
> just make them leave the kitchen.

*I guess I am going to have to try a little tough love! Oh but those
faces get me everytime! ;)
>
> Congratulations on switching to raw, BTW!
>
> Susan

*Thanks Susan

Audrey

Messages in this topic (18)
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12b. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:47 am ((PST))

"divasdesignerstore" <divasdesignerstore@...> wrote:>
>I also think that when you are
> switching from a kibble diet to a raw appropriate diet it is a
shock
> to their stomach.
*****
I think it's more a shock to their expectations, to their brain. And
to the human. I am sympathetic to your situation but I really do
believe you are reading into it more difficulty than it warrants.

My 30 pound dog only gets about a pound of
> food a day. They are also supposed to be on a diet. ;)
*****
Hmm.
A 30# dog in good stead might get two percent of its weight, which
would would be between 9 and 10 ounces. A day. A 30# dog that's a
fuel-injected, hemi-headed hot rod might get three percent of its
weight, or around 14 ounces. Neither scenario justifies 16 ounces of
food a day!

If your pug should oughta weigh 30#, feed him between 9 and 10 ounces
a day. If your pug should oughta weigh less than that, feed him two
percent of what he should oughta be. I guarantee the amount is not
16 ounces!

> it was a suggestion by my vet to use the
> veggies I don't usually feed them but because my pug has arthritis
> issues and he is just so overweight it hurts him to do much of
> anything and getting the weight off has been challenging.
*****
I think if you've been reading here for any length of time you'll
know that there's plenty of empirical evidence that vets don't know
squat about canine nutrition. And less about raw diets. That a vet
recommends veggies only tells me the vet knows they exist, not that
the vet knows who/what to feed them to.

Check the boy's thyroid, feed an appropriate amount of real food,
exercise him in whatever small ways you can, and stick to it. Also,
if this were the RawChat list, I'd suggest you consider his nonfood
eating habits not as a sign of hunger but as symptoms of vaccine
damage. But it's not, so I won't. You could however subscribe to
RawChat for more information.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________

12c. Re: Hungry pug asking for more
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:00 am ((PST))

On Jan 4, 2008, at 1:18 AM, Virginia Snider wrote:
>
> If I don't give him something he will then go for the shoes/paper/
> clothes
> which I have to take off him and give him something chew appropriate.
>
> If I make sure his 30 minute Chewfest need is met then he leaves
> everything
> alone.
>

This could well be totally unrelated to diet, although the tendency
certainly predisposes to overfeeding - by you.

Oral compulsions, including chewing or consuming inappropriate
objects, are one clear indication of chronic disease, usually from
vaccines. This is treatable by homeopathy, and the oral stuff is just
the tip of the iceberg.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. Chicken issues???
Posted by: "dario" nanterossi@yahoo.co.uk nanterossi
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 10:12 am ((PST))

My Staffordshire puppy is 4.5 months today and has a couple of bald spots. one above his
left eye near the ear and one on the left shoulder. They seem stable but not improving. He
is on Advocate. I am considering that maybe its puppy mange...but could I have overdone
it on the chicken when I gave it to him exclusively, in different forms for about 3 weeks at
the beginning of his raw feeding. These patches appeared after that and he has had them
for about 4 weeks.

Question is: How likely is it a chicken allergy ?

Has anyone had this experience ?

Should I wait until he has finished his Advocate course ( end of Jan) before leaving chicken
out of his diet?

MAny thanks
d.

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

13b. Re: Chicken issues???
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:00 am ((PST))

"dario" <nanterossi@...> wrote:>
> I am considering that maybe its puppy mange...but could I have
overdone
> it on the chicken when I gave it to him exclusively, in different
forms for about 3 weeks at
> the beginning of his raw feeding.
*****
I doubt this is related to chicken except that a chicken-only diet may
not support his immune system adequately; chicken is not likely to have
caused the bald spots but it certainly won't fix them.

Whether the spots are parasitic or fungoid or bacterial in origin, a
strong immune system is basic in getting the spots gone. Please rework
the menu and consider appropriate medical attention.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14a. Re: Help! Only tolerates chicken qtrs.
Posted by: "riceaide" riceaide@yahoo.com riceaide
Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:19 am ((PST))

Hi,
SHe no longer gets the vitamins or carrots. When I am cooking the
chicken (such as now, when she's had several bad days in a row), I
give potatoes and bone meal powder, too. Both seem to help firm her
stools, and calm the gastric upset.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> You said that you cut out the potato, are you still giving the
> vitamins, carrots and bone meal powder? When you gave the bit of
> beef how big was the bit? I would suggest starting with nothing
> larger than thumbnail size since she has proven to be so sensitive
to
> new things. If that goes down ok keep feeding the same size piece
> with her regular meals for a while and slooooowly increase the piece
> of food. You may want to start with pork instead of beef with your
> next protein. You don't necessarily want her to eat only chicken
> forever but you don't have to rush into variety. I hope that helps
a
> bit.
>
> Andrea

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

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