Feed Pets Raw Food: Oct 18, 2007

Thursday, October 18, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12178

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: Newbie
From: Diane Young
1.2. Re: Newbie
From: Laura Atkinson
1.3. Re: Newbie
From: Diane Young
1.4. Re: Newbie
From: ginny wilken

2.1. new to raw
From: hanson_jenlynn
2.2. Re: new to raw
From: potensbeast
2.3. Re: new to raw
From: Denise and David Spotila
2.4. Re: new to raw
From: carnesbill

3a. Snapper
From: raffiangel2
3b. Re: Snapper
From: costrowski75

4.1. Venison
From: Donna

5a. Questions from a Newbie
From: aliciamyan
5b. Re: Questions from a Newbie
From: costrowski75
5c. Re: Questions from a Newbie
From: carnesbill

6a. Little-dog sized bones
From: Caitlin
6b. Re: Little-dog sized bones
From: carnesbill
6c. Re: Little-dog sized bones
From: T Smith

7a. Quick Question...Pig Heads and Organs
From: aliciamyan
7b. Re: Quick Question...Pig Heads and Organs
From: carnesbill

8.1. Re: Tripe
From: carnesbill
8.2. Re: Tripe
From: Arlene Fell

9a. Re: bony parts
From: carnesbill

10a. Re: Kitten
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

11. (RE: cleaning) & Now a MEAT score!
From: T Smith

12. Explosive poo
From: kkellogg22004

Messages
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1.1. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Diane Young" dkyoung63@yahoo.com dkyoung63
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:58 pm ((PDT))

I'll have to try that. I'd never heard of using that before, nor would I have ever thought to combine those two ingredients. Thank you, Chris.

Diane Young

costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote:
There's hardly a sensible reason to rely on bleach when something less
invasive like a vinegar or hydrogren peroxide spritz will work just as
well. Especially in an enclosed space like a crate.
Chris O

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Messages in this topic (211)
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1.2. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:07 pm ((PDT))

Don't combine them in the same bottle! It takes two bottles...one with
vinegar (diluted white 50/50) and one with H202. Spritz with one, then the
other. Wipe and you're done.
(copying this to rawchat so questions can happen over there)

On 10/18/07, Diane Young <dkyoung63@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I'll have to try that. I'd never heard of using that before, nor would I
> have ever thought to combine those two ingredients. Thank you, Chris.
>
> Diane Young
>
> costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote:
> There's hardly a sensible reason to rely on bleach when something less
> invasive like a vinegar or hydrogren peroxide spritz will work just as
> well. Especially in an enclosed space like a crate.
> Chris O
>
>
>
> --
> Laura A
> Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
> Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (211)
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1.3. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Diane Young" dkyoung63@yahoo.com dkyoung63
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:23 pm ((PDT))

Thank you.

Diane

Laura Atkinson <llatkinson@gmail.com> wrote: Don't combine them in the same bottle! It takes two bottles...one with
vinegar (diluted white 50/50) and one with H202. Spritz with one, then the
other. Wipe and you're done.
(copying this to rawchat so questions can happen over there)

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Messages in this topic (211)
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1.4. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:40 pm ((PDT))

On Oct 18, 2007, at 2:43 PM, T Smith wrote:

> I've always used bleach, always will. Best disinfectant/sterilizer
> IMO. We
> bleach everything once a week, all the floors...walls, crates,
> counters, etc
> & it is done during the day on any day if needed.
> I've not had problems with it & especially use it for the counter
> tops or
> cutting boards that raw meat is on.
> Trina

This is an example of literal "overkill". There is no need to
disinfect past a reasonable point, and you are past it here. Bleach
residue is a potent organic poison. And besides, germs are good for
us, keeping our immune systems sharp and ourselves resistant to all
sorts of encountered bugs. In fact, there is no life without germs;
they are inside and outside and already on every surface we touch,
raw meat or no. If every germ in our bodies was killed we would
quickly die, as all the metabolic processes depend on the interior
biomass.

Anyway, just try to relax a bit. You, your dogs, and your kids will
be better off. It's sufficient to get "the big pieces" when it comes
to household cleanliness.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (211)
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2.1. new to raw
Posted by: "hanson_jenlynn" hanson_jenlynn@yahoo.com hanson_jenlynn
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:23 pm ((PDT))

i've been feeding my 5yr old pit bull raw for about two weeks now. all
she has had in these two weeks is chicken thighs. (she did have a small
beef rib the other day as well) however i noticed her poop is very
solid so i thought i should give her a little chicken liver to help her
out. she absolutely refuses to eat the liver! i even cooked it for
about 30seconds thinking it might make it smellier and therefore more
appetizing. no such luck. so now i don't know where i should go from
here. is there anything else i should try to give her to loosen her
poop? or any better way to try and get her to eat her liver? thanks in
advance
~jen

Messages in this topic (51)
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2.2. Re: new to raw
Posted by: "potensbeast" potensbeast@hotmail.com potensbeast
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

is there anything else i should try to give her to loosen her
> poop? or any better way to try and get her to eat her liver? thanks
in
> advance
> ~jen
>
My dog used to like liver, then decided it wasn't his cup of tea. Dogs
love the dehydrated liver (even mine). It gives my dog the runs (if
given too much, ie handful) though so be careful with it. There are
companies that make it and it is pretty cheap. Benny Bullies is one
that comes to mind.
Jana

Messages in this topic (51)
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2.3. Re: new to raw
Posted by: "Denise and David Spotila" brookside_casa@yahoo.com brookside_casa
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:49 pm ((PDT))

I had trouble getting mine to eat liver also! I mix it with smelly green tripe and all gone!

David and Denise Spotila

Brookside Casa
Standard Poodles
Great minds discuss ideas
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.
E Roosevelt

----- Original Message ----
From: hanson_jenlynn <hanson_jenlynn@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 7:16:47 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] new to raw

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (51)
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2.4. Re: new to raw
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:32 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "hanson_jenlynn"
<hanson_jenlynn@...> wrote:
>
> however i noticed her poop is very
> solid so i thought i should give her a little chicken liver to
> help her out.

Raw fed dog's poop is usually more solid than kibble fed dogs. If
it's not coming out white and powdery, I wouldn't worry about it. If
it turns white in a day or two, thats ok too. If you think you need
to feed less bone, give her some boneless chicken breast.

If you've been feeding her chicken only for two weeks and the poop is
not runny (obviously it's not) then it's time to add another meat
source. Perhaps a pork roast would be good. Not a lot of bone in the
ones that have them and some are boneless. Try feeding pork once or
twice a week. In a couple of weeks add another meat.

I wouldn't worry about liver for another month or so. It won't hurt
her to go that long and by then you will probably be feeding fish or
ground beef or something you can hide the liver in.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (51)
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3a. Snapper
Posted by: "raffiangel2" snazgal@aol.com raffiangel2
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:31 pm ((PDT))

moderators note:sign your mails!!!

Finally got to the caribbean market and bought 2 perfect 1lb snapper
fishies....do I need to freeze them for any specific period of time?
I know I've seen a 'fish' thread but forgot what it said.

For all you newbies...I love your questions...cause you remind me of
me...and how nervous I was in the beginning...but I have to tell
you...this is the greatest gift you can give your furries...
Listen to the pros here...trust them...and although you might get the
grey hair, your babies will be fine.

My 2 goldens spent a week at boot camp with a trainer...we're getting
ready for Therapy Dog testing...he was so impressed with their physical
condition..and mental....he's converting all his dogs to RAW..

Thank you moderators...I read every post daily...don't post often, but
always learn something.

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Snapper
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:05 pm ((PDT))

"raffiangel2" <snazgal@...> wrote:
> My 2 goldens spent a week at boot camp with a trainer...we're getting
> ready for Therapy Dog testing...he was so impressed with their
physical
> condition..and mental....he's converting all his dogs to RAW..
*****
What a stellar endorsement! Trainers are really hard to turn. It's
their job to "know everything" so they are skeptical of what they don't
know. Your dogs must be gorgeous. Congrats.

Regarding snapper--I've not read of any reason to freeze it first, and
in fact it might have been delivered frozen to the market, which makes
this moot. But it is a wild caught fish and as with all wild prey, you
take the higher quality protein with the chance (chance!) of parasites
in fresh--never frozen--fish. It's your call. Freezing solid for a
week will take care of parasites if you're worried. I'd be inclined to
feed them to my dogs straight from the market.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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4.1. Venison
Posted by: "Donna" donnad2998@yahoo.com donnad2998
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:58 pm ((PDT))

Anyone near Jasper, Georgia or Roswell Georgia that feeds RAW?
Please reply to me if you do I have something for your dog that I
don't have room for. DEER

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lauraanimal1" <lauraanimal1@...>
wrote:
>
> I put this up on my freecycle
>
> Hello all I have a Dog that is very allergic to proccessed foods so
> her vet put her on what is called a "RAW" diet. This is not cheep.
So
> i
> am look for anything that you might be getting rid of meat wise.
be it
> beef, rabbit, wild game, pork, chicken and etc. if it is meat and
raw
> that would be great. It is ok if it is a little bit freezer burned
so
> if your cleaning out your freezer think of me please.
>
> Laura
>
> P/S I am willing to sign something stating this is not ment for
Human
> consumption!
>
>
> I got a few replies to it as well as a few packages of wild game,
and
> I never got any negitive geed back or comments. However I am
trying
> the one that was posted on here and see how that one does.
Changing
> it up a bit I think helps too. So thanks for the other post and
> wording. will see if that helps out better, so thanks for that
post!!!
>
> Laura & Ishta
>
>
> >
> > What kind of ads are you all putting on Freecycle? I always get
> lecture type
> > of responses about raw feeding, and when I asked for freezer
burned
> meats, I
> > received a response asking why I'd feed my dogs something I
won't
> eat.
> > Always negative responses on feeding my dogs raw meats, and as
of
> yet have
> > not received a bite of meat or a positive response.
>
> >
>

Messages in this topic (52)
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5a. Questions from a Newbie
Posted by: "aliciamyan" alicia_larson@msn.com aliciamyan
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:29 pm ((PDT))

I've been feeding raw for 3 weeks now - Flicka 11yo 50lb lab and
Moose 3yo about 85lb (should be 100lb I think) GSD. Thanks to many
generous folks, I have a good variety to choose from (moose, elk,
venison, duck, beef, chicken). I've been feeding just bone-in
chicken (whole breasts or hacked whole chickens), small amounts of
beef (recently added), salmon oil, and the occasional chicken liver,
all divided into two daily feedings (Moose about 3.5lbs/day and
Flicka about 1lb/day). Nearly all of the non-chicken items I've been
given are boneless. To ensure they get enough bone, I've purchased
chicken hindquarters to feed along with the boneless meats. I am
making sure 1/2 of their daily portion is chicken hindquarters. I
would like to eventually move on to big food, but until I get the
hang of it and get weight on my gsd, I'm sticking to twice-a-day
meals and sometimes more.

Questions:
1) Does it sound like I'm going about this right? I have the dogs'
enthusiastic approval, but they'd approve of a pizza diet.
2) Anyone heard of Hudson Chicken? The packaging says nothing
about additives, only "Less than 5% retained water." I'm getting it
for $.69/lb by the 40lb box from my locally owned grocery store.
3) I started Moose at 3% of his current weight, he started to put
on a little weight, started feeling better, needed to exercise him
more to burn his extra energy, and lost his little bit of weight. I
think he used his little bit of fat to add on on more muscle! SOOO,
I bumped him to 3.5% of what we think is his ideal weight (which he's
never weighed, so once I see the front ribs and hip bones get some
padding, I'll know what his ideal weight really is!) Any other
suggestions for adding weight to an underweight gsd?

Thanks in advance for your shared wisdom,
Alicia

Messages in this topic (3)
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5b. Re: Questions from a Newbie
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:43 pm ((PDT))

"aliciamyan" <alicia_larson@...> wrote:
>> Questions:
> 1) Does it sound like I'm going about this right? I have the
dogs'
> enthusiastic approval, but they'd approve of a pizza diet.
*****
Hey, I know those dogs!

I think you're doing fine; you really don't need to sweat the
nutritional bone so precisely though. I feed lots of boneless meals
and only occasionally do I toss in a chicken quarter or pork neck. I
figure the bone-in body parts I do feed are plenty compensation for
most of the boneless meals.

If you feel that adding bone to meatymeat meals benefits their
digestion, that's something else. In which case, do what you see fit.

> 2) Anyone heard of Hudson Chicken? The packaging says nothing
> about additives, only "Less than 5% retained water." I'm getting
it
> for $.69/lb by the 40lb box from my locally owned grocery store.
*****
If it is honest enough to label retained water, it probably is
minimally processed, no fuel injected anything. The brand no doubt
is local--can you ask the grocer for details?

> 3) Any other
> suggestions for adding weight to an underweight gsd?
*****
Patience, if he's a young un. They take time to fill out. Also,
feed fat to bowel tolerance. As he grows accustomed to greater
amounts of fat, add more. And, as you have already figured out,
increase his intake, also to bowel tolerance.

If he's digesting well (good stools, no upheavals) then he's clearly
using what you're feeding. It's when you pack the chow in and the
result is wretched stools and a generally unthrifty dog that you have
to worry about the amount you're feeding.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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5c. Re: Questions from a Newbie
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:33 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "aliciamyan" <alicia_larson@...>
wrote:
>
> Questions:
> 1) Does it sound like I'm going about this right?

Yes, you are doing great. Maybe you are worrying a little more than
you need to about the amount of bone but still doing great. :)

> 2) Anyone heard of Hudson Chicken? The packaging says nothing
> about additives, only "Less than 5% retained water."

Again you are doing great and probably worrying too much about
whether or not the chicken is enhanced (in this case it's not). If
you didn't read it on the package, you would never know if it is nor
not and neither would your dogs.

> 3) I started Moose at 3% of his current weight, he started
> to put on a little weight

Don't try to rush the weight gain. It's healther if he gains weight
slowly. If he is continously gaining weight, I wouldn't worry if it
took him a year to get to ideal (it won't take that long).

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Little-dog sized bones
Posted by: "Caitlin" caitlin@artistry-design.com fancyfacepoms
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:12 pm ((PDT))

Hi,
I've got two Poms that I've been feeding ground rabbit, lamb, chicken,
etc. But I know they need something to chew on. I've been having trouble
finding any meaty bones that are size appropriate for my 6 pound and 4
pound dogs. Usually what I can find doesn't have a whole lot of meat,
just bone. Any suggestions?

Caitlin & The Poms

Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. Re: Little-dog sized bones
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:33 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Caitlin <caitlin@...> wrote:
>
> Usually what I can find doesn't have a whole lot of meat,
> just bone. Any suggestions?

Chicken necks, wings, drumsticks, backs, pork ribs, goat ribs, turkey
wings, duck necks, duck backs and probably a lot of other things I
can't think of right now. I assume you want to cut back on ground
items and feed these animal parts most of the time.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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6c. Re: Little-dog sized bones
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:36 pm ((PDT))

chicken drumsticks. My teenie Lhasa chows em down with the other two
Lhasas!
Trina

On 10/18/07, Caitlin <caitlin@artistry-design.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I've got two Poms that I've been feeding ground rabbit, lamb, chicken,
> etc. But I know they need something to chew on. I've been having trouble
> finding any meaty bones that are size appropriate for my 6 pound and 4
> pound dogs. Usually what I can find doesn't have a whole lot of meat,
> just bone. Any suggestions?
>
> Caitlin & The Poms
> _
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Quick Question...Pig Heads and Organs
Posted by: "aliciamyan" alicia_larson@msn.com aliciamyan
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:32 pm ((PDT))

I just got a "hit" on my craigslist, and being new to this, not sure of
what my answer should be. I have an offer for "pigs heads and their
organs"...Heads okay? Should I decline any specific organs? Any
suggestions on how to prepare my own digestive system before receiving
these items?

Thanks,
Alicia

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: Quick Question...Pig Heads and Organs
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:34 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "aliciamyan" <alicia_larson@...>
wrote:
>
> I just got a "hit" on my craigslist, and being new to this, not
> sure of
> what my answer should be. I have an offer for "pigs heads and their
> organs"...Heads okay?

I have never fed any heads but I know a lot of people who have and
yes, they are good to feed but may be messy. I think they would
definately be an outside meal.

> Should I decline any specific organs?

> Any
> suggestions on how to prepare my own digestive system
> before receiving these items?

Watch a lot of medical shows on TV. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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8.1. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:32 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, debby lappat <dlappat@...> wrote:
>
> So Bill what do you feed and what do you feel is a super food?

I feed a vareity of things but mostly (in no particular order)
chicken, turkey, beef heart, venison, pork, fish, an occasional whole
rabbit and beef plus organs of different kinds. If there are any
foods that I would consider super foods they would be venison, beef
heart and possibly whole rabbit. Well, beef would be right up there
too. :) :) :) Of course liver would be the super organ and chicken
backs the super bone. :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (226)
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8.2. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "Arlene Fell" abeautiful3@yahoo.com abeautiful3
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:36 pm ((PDT))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR MESSAGES!

I was wondering how much tripe and how often to feed; and is tripe considered a meal in its self?

Arlene

debby lappat <dlappat@yahoo.com> wrote: MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM AND SIGN YOUR MESSAGES!

So Bill what do you feed and what do you feel is a super food? thanks !!

costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote: "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> Green tripe is not a super food nor is it particularly nutritious
> nor nearly valuable enough to go to the touble, expense, and discust
> one has to go through to buy it and feed it. :)
*****
And equally, chicken backs are not super food and are not particularly
nutritious. They are worth no more effort--and no less effort--than
green tripe requires.

Those who have access to green tripe should consider it a useful part
of the diet, no less useful than chicken backs. If one has the
interest, wherewithal and tolerance (I do not find it disgusting),
green tripe is not without its purpose.
Chris O

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Messages in this topic (226)
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9a. Re: bony parts
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:54 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
>
> i'm sure i'm missing something here.. chicken backs and necks
> for great danes? my great dane puppy makes whole chickens
> look like a snack.. and backs and necks by themselves are far
> too boney unless you're providing more meat somewhere else..

I feed both my Great Danes 2 chicken backs each every morning and
have been for 5 years (well one of then is only 3 years old ;) )
That is their morning meal. Of course, like you say, its basically
a snack. Of course they get more meat in the evening meal.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Re: Kitten
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:32 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/18/2007 4:09:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, "Felicia
Kost" writes:

My dog adopted a kitten last night. I am not exactly a cat person but I
guess I' ll become one! Can I feed the kitten mini versions of what I feed my
dog? Dog gets a basic variety of whatever I can get! Do kittens have any special
nutrtion requirements? I was wondering about taurine?

You'll probably do fine feeding the kitten like it was a dog, provided it's
young enough to take to raw easily, which it probably is. There's taurine in
all meats but most is in heart, so I fed some chicken hearts a couple of times
a week, just to be sure--until I scored beef heart and that went over so
well with all 3 of my cats that it's become a full meal in itself, a couple of
times a week. Same as with dogs--mostly meaty meat, some bone and a little
organ, split between liver and something else (heart and gizzard don't count as
organ)--in my case, lamb kidney is the only other organ I've found, but I
keep looking. The kitten will need to eat 3 or 4 times a day if it's pretty
young, down to twice a day as it's growing up.

The only thing noteworthy about the difference in a dog and a cat is that
you cannot starve a cat into eating what it doesn't want to, because if it goes
over 24 hr. without food it is at risk of a possibly fatal liver ailment. I
know we've all read about the cat that survived 2 weeks in the well, etc., and
in the past I've left my cats without food for more than 24 hr. without any
problem, but not since I learned of the risk...

Lynda

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (15)
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11. (RE: cleaning) & Now a MEAT score!
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:34 pm ((PDT))

Sorry ginny, Than overkill it will be.
I don't like germs. I will never be able to lighten up, if anything, I get
worse the older I get. There's enough germs outside, on the food, etc that
my house will be as sterile as I can get it. My 18 year old daughter rarely
ever had even a sniffle in her life & my 2 year old son will be raised the
same. Bad germs, bad, bad germs :-)

NOW!!! i got a HUGE hit on my freecycle ad from a week ago. I think it
was Maggie's wordage that i used!
The lady got back to me & said she had a shelf in her freezer with meat for
me so i arranged to go get it today (2 hour round trip to the other end of
the island) and this morning she confirmed it in an email & said her mum had
also dropped off some meat for me to get. Yipppeeee
After my dog saw the vet today (sigh) & my interview, we zoomed down to her
house..... and she had: 4 trash bags full of meat & two boxes, the bags were
in her garage because they didn't fit in the freezer!! There are HUGE pork
loin roasts, t-bone steaks, pork loin steaks, a turkey, fish & more! I have
no idea how many pounds but i told her to let her friends know if they had
any since I have 9 dogs!
SO, thank you all for your ideas & sending me to freecycle
yahoooo!!!!!!!!!!
Trina

On 10/18/07, ginny wilken <gwilken@alamedanet.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Anyway, just try to relax a bit. You, your dogs, and your kids will
> be better off. It's sufficient to get "the big pieces" when it comes
> to household cleanliness.
>
> ginny and Tomo
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12. Explosive poo
Posted by: "kkellogg22004" kkellogg22004@yahoo.com kkellogg22004
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:37 pm ((PDT))

I've been feeding my two basenjis prey-model raw for two weeks now;
pre-made, ground raw diet before that for about a year. Trying to
read every message from this group, but falling behind!

Ginger, my 9-plus-year-old rescue, has had *explosive* diarrhea,
off-and-on, no discernable trigger, for about six months now. Vet,
who is conventional but open-minded about raw (haven't yet discussed
prey-model), can't find reason. Tried standard protocols - no change.
(I should mention that Ginger's always had markedly better digestion
on raw rather than even the most expensive canned or kibbled food.)

Today my small (rental) house was sprayed, to two feet up the walls,
with liquid poo containing some bone fragments. This is what she has
been producing for two weeks, although always in controlled episodes -
on walks, etc.

I've been feeding whole chickens cut into quarters, no organs, for
each meal. Twice I've substituted pork chops. Both dogs love, love,
love the food. Ginger's missing many teeth but does just fine ripping
and tearing. After particularly bad episodes, I'll fast them for a
day. Any suggestions on what to do now? I respect my vet, but I
think she's pretty stumped here. Needless to say, money is an issue,
although of course I want to take care of my dog.

Kate

Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12177

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: Tripe
From: Laura Atkinson
1.2. Re: Tripe
From: debby lappat

2a. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
From: ginny wilken
2b. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
From: Denise Strother
2c. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
From: scalla70

3.1. Re: Green tripe
From: lauraanimal1

4.1. Re: Newbie
From: Denise Strother
4.2. Re: Newbie
From: Morledzep@aol.com
4.3. Re: Newbie
From: redkeds@comcast.net
4.4. Re: Newbie
From: T Smith
4.5. Re: Newbie
From: costrowski75
4.6. Re: Newbie
From: Denise Strother
4.7. ADMIN/Re: Newbie
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: Fish oil capsules Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Flax seed oil
From: Pepper

6a. Re: Anal glands prone to infection- nighttime feeding
From: Denise Strother

7a. Re: Restrictive diet questions
From: Sandrea Kornblum

8a. ADMIN/Re: Anal glands prone to infection-treating the gland..Patrici
From: costrowski75

9.1. Venison
From: lauraanimal1

10a. Re: Feed timing for best poop control
From: caroline gebbie

11.1. Tripe in a can Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Tripe
From: Pepper
11.2. Re: Tripe in a can Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Tripe
From: Morledzep@aol.com

12. bony parts
From: Morledzep@aol.com

13. Russell
From: Renate

14a. Re: picking out bones
From: Felicia Kost

15a. Re: Kitten
From: Giselle

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1.1. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:55 pm ((PDT))

And, if you're feeding a dog with compromised kidney or diagnosed kidney
disease, it can be a wonderful item to use in managing ca:ph balances.

On 10/18/07, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Those who have access to green tripe should consider it a useful part
> of the diet, no less useful than chicken backs. If one has the
> interest, wherewithal and tolerance (I do not find it disgusting),
> green tripe is not without its purpose.
> Chris O
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (224)
________________________________________________________________________

1.2. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "debby lappat" dlappat@yahoo.com dlappat
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:04 pm ((PDT))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM AND SIGN YOUR MESSAGES!

So Bill what do you feed and what do you feel is a super food? thanks !!

costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote: "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> Green tripe is not a super food nor is it particularly nutritious
> nor nearly valuable enough to go to the touble, expense, and discust
> one has to go through to buy it and feed it. :)
*****
And equally, chicken backs are not super food and are not particularly
nutritious. They are worth no more effort--and no less effort--than
green tripe requires.

Those who have access to green tripe should consider it a useful part
of the diet, no less useful than chicken backs. If one has the
interest, wherewithal and tolerance (I do not find it disgusting),
green tripe is not without its purpose.
Chris O

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Messages in this topic (224)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:55 pm ((PDT))

On Oct 18, 2007, at 12:18 PM, Denise Strother wrote:

> If you look at the 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs with 5% of that
> being liver, then 5% of their total diet should be liver.

Well, I think your point got across, Denise, but I suspect you meant
to say that, of the 10% which is organs, 50% of that, or half the
organ quota, should be liver. This equates, then, to 5% of the total
diet. Right?

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:24 pm ((PDT))

Right. Amazing what a difference a missing 0 can make. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, ginny wilken <gwilken@...> wrote:

> Well, I think your point got across, Denise, but I suspect you
meant
> to say that, of the 10% which is organs, 50% of that, or half the
> organ quota, should be liver. This equates, then, to 5% of the
total
> diet. Right?
>
>
> ginny and Tomo
>
>
>
> All stunts performed without a net!
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
Posted by: "scalla70" tanbrin@rogers.com scalla70
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:58 pm ((PDT))

Thanks everyone! That gives me a better idea!
Judy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Strother"
<denisestrother@...> wrote:
>
> If you look at the 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs with 5% of that
> being liver, then 5% of their total diet should be liver. I do not
> weigh my dogs meals, or plan them very far ahead. I just feed
> liver ... sometimes. Sometimes once a week, sometimes every couple
> of weeks. Or any variation that includes at least once a month. I
> might have skipped a month somewhere though. Some people are more
> comfortable with smaller amounts more frequently. Some dogs don't
do
> well (gastronomically speaking) with whole meal amounts of liver,
> some do. You just have to find what works for you and your dog(s),
> but it should average out to about 5% of the dogs overall diet over
> time. Denise
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "scalla70" <tanbrin@> wrote:
>
> > How often does a dog need to have liver? per week, per month?
>

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3.1. Re: Green tripe
Posted by: "lauraanimal1" lauraanimal1@yahoo.com lauraanimal1
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:01 pm ((PDT))

I think it is worth it simpley for the fact my dog lives is, it's raw
and she is happy to get it an loves me all the more when she gets it.

Laura & Ishta

Messages in this topic (43)
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4.1. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:02 pm ((PDT))

Diane,
Chris is right. Bleach can cause respiratory irritation and vinegar,
hydrogen peroxide and/or vodka work as well without the possible
problems. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
Diane Young <dkyoung63@> wrote:
A squirt with a cleaner containing bleach and a paper towel cleans the
crate right up and makes my life easier.
> *****
There's hardly a sensible reason to rely on bleach when something less
invasive like a vinegar or hydrogren peroxide spritz will work just as
well. Especially in an enclosed space like a crate.
> Chris O

Messages in this topic (207)
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4.2. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/18/2007 1:02:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
denisestrother@yahoo.com writes:

Chris is right. Bleach can cause respiratory irritation and vinegar,
hydrogen peroxide and/or vodka work as well without the possible
problems.

Denise.. step away from my vodka.. that's MINE.. it's NOT for cleaning..

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (207)
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4.3. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "redkeds@comcast.net" redkeds@comcast.net redkeds1
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 pm ((PDT))

Sorry - if I had a vodka/water spritz, I wouldn't CARE about the cleaning....

Maggie, Rufus, Oliver and Mickey
>
For rigorous cleaning up I use a vodka/water spritz (vodka is cheaper
than Everclear) because for me the smell of vinegar is inextricably
related to food. Prolly good old soap and water would clean a crate's
insides just fine.
Chris O

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (207)
________________________________________________________________________

4.4. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 pm ((PDT))

I've always used bleach, always will. Best disinfectant/sterilizer IMO. We
bleach everything once a week, all the floors...walls, crates, counters, etc
& it is done during the day on any day if needed.
I've not had problems with it & especially use it for the counter tops or
cutting boards that raw meat is on.
Trina

On 10/18/07, Denise Strother <denisestrother@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Diane,
> Chris is right. Bleach can cause respiratory irritation and vinegar,
> hydrogen peroxide and/or vodka work as well without the possible
> problems. Denise
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (207)
________________________________________________________________________

4.5. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:57 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, redkeds@... wrote:
>
> Sorry - if I had a vodka/water spritz, I wouldn't CARE about the
cleaning....
*****
Yes, that's been said before. When I decided to quit trying with the
vinegar and went to Beverages&More for Everclear, one of the associates
told me to use the vodka instead, that lots of people use it for
cleaning.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (207)
________________________________________________________________________

4.6. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:24 pm ((PDT))

Good for what ails ya! Not for cleaning, but makes you not care if
you've cleaned or not. I'm backing away slowly and careful not to make
any sudden moves. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
Denise.. step away from my vodka.. that's MINE.. it's NOT for
cleaning..

Catherine R.

Messages in this topic (207)
________________________________________________________________________

4.7. ADMIN/Re: Newbie
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

I think it's time to take the cleaning product thread, with all its
quite varied off-shoots, to Rawchat where things OT-ish may discussed
more freely. No more vinegar, vodka or bleach on Rawfeeding.
Chris O
Mod Squad

Messages in this topic (207)
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________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Fish oil capsules Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Flax seed oil
Posted by: "Pepper" pepperanne14@yahoo.com pepperanne14
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:03 pm ((PDT))

Thank you Tina :) That was useful to know... I won't be scared off of cod liver anymore lol.
Pep

Tina Berry <k9baron@gmail.com> wrote: "What kind of fish oil capsules? I read that cod liver oil is not a good oil
to feed the dogs... is there a different kind?"

Cod liver oil isn't bad; it's that you can overdose on the Vitamin A & D in
cod liver oil capsules - it's better to give natural vit A & D in raw liver;
I gave cod liver oil capsules once a week when I ran out of liver.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cheers,
Pep

---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (17)
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6a. Re: Anal glands prone to infection- nighttime feeding
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))

Patricia,
You can fix this problem easily. Don't feed your dog on a schedule. If
you feed him at different times every day his stomach won't start
producing digestive juices at the time it expects to have a meal. Also
it sounds as if you are feeding at least 2X's a day. Barring a medical
reason, there is no reason to feed a grown dog more than once a day.
Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Finster Boy" <finster_boy1@...>
wrote:
I only give him a little, little at night. It seems that he needs a
small amount of food (and something raw will necessitate a b m in the
middle of the night!)in his system for the night time. Otherwise- he
will spit up bile in the morning, be nauseous so he won't want his
chicken neck, then he's off schedule which means I have to leave him
w/my handicapped mother to deal with the raw food thing-which she
won't do. WOW! What a house of dominos I've created! I will look for
an alternative though, so thank-you for your information.
> Patricia.

Messages in this topic (12)
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________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Restrictive diet questions
Posted by: "Sandrea Kornblum" misssweetpeas@verizon.net sandreaelyse
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:05 pm ((PDT))

Thanks very much for the suggestions. I am going to try getting those
chicken backs and feed them with more of the meat only stuff as I think
that will help. And I will try just adding one protein at a time again
and see how we do. I also decided to change butchers because I simply
am not sure that my problem is not related to the meat I've been
getting. I bought some beef ribs this last order and they stunk when I
got them and were greenish tinged. I took them back and got rabbit
instead. But with the dogs all have this liquid stool stuff with this
last order I think that maybe the butcher is not storing my meat orders
properly. I called and asked about the chicken but he said no people
had complained about it. I pick up my new meat tomorrow and I've been
using some from the grocery store these last few days. Hate to chuck
what I've got but if it is the meat then that's that.
Sandrea

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. ADMIN/Re: Anal glands prone to infection-treating the gland..Patrici
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:08 pm ((PDT))

Please take to another list any anal gland discussion that is not
directly related to raw feeding. Both RawChat and DogHealth come to
mind. Thank you.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

9.1. Venison
Posted by: "lauraanimal1" lauraanimal1@yahoo.com lauraanimal1
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:14 pm ((PDT))

I put this up on my freecycle

Hello all I have a Dog that is very allergic to proccessed foods so
her vet put her on what is called a "RAW" diet. This is not cheep. So
i
am look for anything that you might be getting rid of meat wise. be it
beef, rabbit, wild game, pork, chicken and etc. if it is meat and raw
that would be great. It is ok if it is a little bit freezer burned so
if your cleaning out your freezer think of me please.

Laura

P/S I am willing to sign something stating this is not ment for Human
consumption!

I got a few replies to it as well as a few packages of wild game, and
I never got any negitive geed back or comments. However I am trying
the one that was posted on here and see how that one does. Changing
it up a bit I think helps too. So thanks for the other post and
wording. will see if that helps out better, so thanks for that post!!!

Laura & Ishta

>
> What kind of ads are you all putting on Freecycle? I always get
lecture type
> of responses about raw feeding, and when I asked for freezer burned
meats, I
> received a response asking why I'd feed my dogs something I won't
eat.
> Always negative responses on feeding my dogs raw meats, and as of
yet have
> not received a bite of meat or a positive response.

Messages in this topic (51)
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________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Feed timing for best poop control
Posted by: "caroline gebbie" caz320ml@yahoo.com caz320ml
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:22 pm ((PDT))

We have been raw feeding for about 3 weeks, lots of success and no
problems, but I have a disabled dog.

Bonnie is an 11 year old boxer with CDRM, like MS sort of, she has
very little use of her back legs. She had started to poop
occasionally at night before we went raw reducing her evening meal and incereasing breakfast seemed to help and at first the raw seemed
to stop the problem.

I know this is part of the illness but just wondered, I feed twice a
day a larger meal in the morning and a small meal aroud 3.30pm she
is walked at 4.30 and again before we go to bed between 9 and
10.30pm.

I want to feed twice a day, she loves her food and is too used to
this to change now, which is the best way round, big meal am or big
meal pm any ideas?

Thanks for all the help, I have been reading all the mails for a
while now.

Caroline, Bonnie and Londo

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Messages in this topic (2)
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11.1. Tripe in a can Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Tripe
Posted by: "Pepper" pepperanne14@yahoo.com pepperanne14
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:23 pm ((PDT))

Hi,
I was wondering if the green tripe in a can that I use is good enough.... I couldn't find green tripe, but at the natural pet food store(they sell raw bones, patties, meats, and premium foods) they had cans of green tripe dog food. It's called Tripett www.tripett.com

I buy the green beef tripe... but because it's canned it does get heated to seal the can but it says in the FAQ section that they did analysis on it and it kept it's nutritional value.... I know totally raw is best but is this better than no tripe at all?

Thanks,
Anna

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, it's quite nutritious stuff. According to analysis at
> greentripe.com

Greentripe.com sells the stuff. Of course they are going to make
them look good just as kibble companies make kibble look good to the
untrained eye.

Cheers,
Pep

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Messages in this topic (224)
________________________________________________________________________

11.2. Re: Tripe in a can Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Tripe
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:27 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/18/2007 1:23:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
pepperanne14@yahoo.com writes:

I buy the green beef tripe... but because it's canned it does get heated to
seal the can but it says in the FAQ section that they did analysis on it and it
kept it's nutritional value.... I know totally raw is best but is this
better than no tripe at all?

Anna,

IMO.. no. I would rather feed no tripe at all than feed canned. It's that
simple. and just so you understand where i'm coming from, i spend about $200
every 3 months on raw green tripe.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (224)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12. bony parts
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:31 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 10/18/2007 4:37:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,
susrob061174@yahoo.com writes:

Ask the butcher if he can order chicken backs & necks, turkey &
necks, by the case. I get mine for .24 to .34$ $ a lb.

Susanne,

i'm sure i'm missing something here.. chicken backs and necks for great
danes? my great dane puppy makes whole chickens look like a snack.. and backs and
necks by themselves are far too boney unless you're providing more meat
somewhere else..

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13. Russell
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:25 pm ((PDT))

Hi again, Russell is my foster with the seizures. He just will not eat his
potassium bromide. Fights against it with all his might. I've wasted most
of the day researching dietary help for epilepsy. I really think animals
have a bit of sense and if this meek little dog is so against his meds there
has to be a reason. So I'm going to put him on raw in the morning - I
usually feed him at night, but all my own raw guys are fed in the morning,
so he'll just have to join them and fast for a bit. No more meds. Is there
anything extra I need to do to help his seizures, or just switch him over
and hope for the best?

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14a. Re: picking out bones
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:13 pm ((PDT))

mandarini_gg <amanda.gasparini@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Mandi, glad im not alone here. I was hoping this was a one time thing. But its not and it only occurs with chicken! The freezing idea did not work.... would not touch it. After about 7 days I just moved on. The mushed chicken pieces were becoming difficult to pick up and they were disgusting. They moved on to the cat. The problem is still not solved. Whats realy frustrating is she loses weight every time she gets chicken and I can't afford to skip out on the cheapiest protein source available right now! Oh well, keep trying. Thanks Felicia

My Dane does the EXACT same thing, and she does it only with chicken.
She picks out the bones until the entire 1/2 bird I gave her is
mangled (but still in 1 piece) and lying in the grass.

Mandi

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Messages in this topic (14)
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15a. Re: Kitten
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:39 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Felicia!
I agree with Andrea!
Links to online whole prey vendors;

http://www.rodentpro.com/products.asp

http://www.prey4pets.com/servlet/StoreFront

http://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=23

www.taylorpondfarm*s*.com/ <http://www.taylorpondfarms.com/>
Its also helpful to offer cats and kittens a LOT of protein and organ
variety frequently. It helps with the initiation to raw, so they can pick
and choose between what is most appealing to them at first. It also helps to
keep them from fixating on one single type of protein or organ. Small bits
scattered on a plastic place mat at a meal can offer variety and choice.
Don't forget bones! Small whole prey can offer small, easy to consume bones.
Whole small fish, like smelt is good, and rabbit, Game Hens, or just the
gristly bits off large bones.

Some information on cats;

*African Wildcat*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felis_silvestris_lybica

About 10,000 years ago, some Felis silvestris lybica individuals were
domesticated in the Middle East. Modern domestic cats are derived from at
least five "Mitochondrial Eves". None of the other subspecies of Felis
silvestris contributed to the domestic breed, and many of those subspecies
own mtDNA is being swamped by interbreeding with feral cats.

The African Wildcat eats primarily mice, rats and other small mammals. If
the situation permits, it also eats birds, reptiles, amphibians and insects.

*Cat*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat

A skilled predator, the cat is known to hunt over 1,000 species for food.

Cats can be fussy eaters, possibly due to the mutation which caused their
ancestor to lose the ability to taste sugars. Unlike most mammals, cats can
voluntarily starve themselves indefinitely despite being presented with
palatable food, even a food which they had previously readily consumed. This
can happen when the vomeronasal or Jacobson's organ becomes accustomed to a
specific food, or if the cats are spoiled by their owners, in which case the
cat will reject any food that does not fit the pattern it is expecting. It
is also known for cats to merely become bored with their given food and
decide to stop eating until they are tempted into eating again. Although it
is extremely rare for a cat to deliberately starve itself to the point of
injury, the sudden loss of weight can cause a fatal condition called hepatic
lipidosis, a liver dysfunction which causes pathological loss of appetite
and reinforces the starvation, which can lead to death within as little as
48 hours.

*http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html*

The domestic cat's stomach, which is quite small, has two purposes. It holds
the food and it is not necessary to hold a lot of food because the natural
food of the cat is nutrient dense. Small wild cats hunt more frequently than
their larger cousins because their prey is smaller.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

rawfedcats.org
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 10/18/07, Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> No real special considerations for cats as opposed to dogs other than
> the fact that lots of cats are extremely picky.
>

With whole prey you don't have to worry at all about getting
> it right, because everything you need is in there.
>

<snip>
>
> Andrea
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>, Felicia
> Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>
> Can I feed the kitten mini versions of what I feed my dog? Dog gets a
> basic variety of whatever I can get! Do kittens have any special
> nutrition requirements? I was wondering about taurine?
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12176

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Cleaning up with vinegar (was Re: Newbie)
From: mmc2315

2a. Re: bin it or feed it?
From: colliewoman

3a. Re: Restrictive diet questions
From: Andrea

4a. Re: New to raw feeding - loose poo
From: Andrea

5.1. Re: New Here
From: Andrea

6a. Kitten
From: Felicia Kost
6b. Re: Kitten
From: Andrea

7a. Re: Fish oil capsules Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Flax seed oil
From: Tina Berry
7b. Fish oil capsules Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Flax seed oil
From: costrowski75

8a. Re: Illness
From: costrowski75

9.1. Re: Newbie
From: costrowski75
9.2. Re: Newbie
From: Laura Atkinson
9.3. Re: Newbie
From: costrowski75

10.1. Re: Tripe
From: Sandee Lee
10.2. Re: Tripe
From: carnesbill
10.3. Re: Tripe
From: ginny wilken
10.4. Re: Tripe
From: costrowski75
10.5. Re: Tripe
From: jrtsnabc
10.6. Re: Tripe
From: carnesbill
10.7. Re: Tripe
From: costrowski75

11a. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
From: scalla70
11b. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
From: Andrea
11c. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
From: carnesbill
11d. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
From: Denise Strother

12. Re: Anal glands prone to infection-treating the gland..Patricia.
From: Ladynyny@aol.com

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1.1. Cleaning up with vinegar (was Re: Newbie)
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:15 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...> wrote:
>
> Although I **highly** recommend diluting the white vinegar. Have you ever
> stuck your head in a crate to wipe out the vinegar you just spritzed in
> there? <grin> If it hurts me to smell it, I can only imagine what it does
> to a dog's more sensitive sniffer!
>

We wash our wood & tile floors with white vinegar diluted with water. I usually add some
drops of essential oil---peppermint or orange or lavendar---to cut the vinegar smell.

Any reason a little essential oil (in the diluted vinegar wash) couldn't be used in a dog's crate?

Michelle

Messages in this topic (200)
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2a. Re: bin it or feed it?
Posted by: "colliewoman" donna.frankland@ukonline.co.uk colliewoman
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:15 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Donna!
> Umm,that would be Brawn, or in my neck of the woods (New
> Jersey, not too far from Pennsylvania Dutch country), Souse!

aaaahh!
you mean pork swad!
my dad used to make it and it was lovely!

love
donna

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: Restrictive diet questions
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:19 am ((PDT))

> 1. Why can't they tolerate anything but chicken without diarrhea?

My first thought is to feed a tiny bit of other protein with a boney
meal, chicken backs might be a good candidate for this process. Having
the extra bone should help them to keep their stools solid. If that
works you can slowly increase the size of other protein so their system
gets used to digesting it. I would imagine that this same tactic would
work to introduce other organs as well. I don't usually suggest
probiotics, but maybe you could get some good strong human stuff for
them and see if that helps them too.

Bill is right about the pork, there is no reason to avoid commercial
pork because of trichnosis fears.

> 2. Are they okay just eating a diet of chicken getting perhaps 2-3
> chicken livers a week.

It sounds like they do ok with rabbit and some lamb, so you do have
some variety in there. Just be patient with the other proteins and
work your way into more variety.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: New to raw feeding - loose poo
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:22 am ((PDT))

If you mean you fed him half a chicken I think you just gave too much
food. Reduce the amount of food he gets in a meal and he'll be fine.
Once the loose stools stop you won't have to worry about trimming his
derriere.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cwnsc" <cwells5@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all, I began raw feeding w/my 3 yr old male golden retriever
> this Sunday. I started him with a split chicken breast and he only
> ate the leg. I reserved the remaining portion for the next night
> and he ate that along with the an entire split piece Monday. I was
> thinking Yahoo - here, we go!! However, Monday afternoon,
> Tuesday, and again this morning, he had diahreeah

Messages in this topic (5)
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5.1. Re: New Here
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:26 am ((PDT))

Actually, for a dog that gulps thier food the best thing to do is feed
really big food, not smaller. If the dog can't fit it down it's throat
without chewing it they can't choke, right?

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Marti" <pioneertown@...> wrote:

> I have heard that the flat faced breeds are notorious for gulping
> their food and that feeding raw could lead to choking. Anyone care to
> comment or have any experience with that sort of thing? If it is
> true, then, would it be ok to just give them smaller pieces?

Messages in this topic (30)
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6a. Kitten
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:43 am ((PDT))

My dog adopted a kitten last night. I am not exactly a cat person but I guess I' ll become one! Can I feed the kitten mini versions of what I feed my dog? Dog gets a basic variety of whatever I can get! Do kittens have any special nutrtion requirements? I was wondering about taurine? Thanks Felicia

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Messages in this topic (13)
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6b. Re: Kitten
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:09 pm ((PDT))

No real special considerations for cats as opposed to dogs other than
the fact that lots of cats are extremely picky. Taurine is present in
any muscle that gets used a lot, so its unlikely you'll end up with a
deficiency in that area. Heart has lots of taurine and my cats haven't
met a heart they didn't like. If your kitten is amenable to the idea
you can get whole prey items like frozen mice, chicks, etc. over the
internet. With whole prey you don't have to worry at all about getting
it right, because everything you need is in there. While it is usually
a lot more expensive than my regular dog foodstuffs, I think of it as
price per day instead of price per pound.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:

Can I feed the kitten mini versions of what I feed my dog? Dog gets a
basic variety of whatever I can get! Do kittens have any special
nutrtion requirements? I was wondering about taurine?

Messages in this topic (13)
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7a. Re: Fish oil capsules Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Flax seed oil
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:01 am ((PDT))

"What kind of fish oil capsules? I read that cod liver oil is not a good oil
to feed the dogs... is there a different kind?"

Cod liver oil isn't bad; it's that you can overdose on the Vitamin A & D in
cod liver oil capsules - it's better to give natural vit A & D in raw liver;
I gave cod liver oil capsules once a week when I ran out of liver.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (16)
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7b. Fish oil capsules Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Flax seed oil
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:18 am ((PDT))

"Tina Berry" <k9baron@...> wrote:
> Cod liver oil isn't bad; it's that you can overdose on the Vitamin A
& D in
> cod liver oil capsules - it's better to give natural vit A & D in raw
liver;
> I gave cod liver oil capsules once a week when I ran out of liver.
*****
While I don't think a temporary lack of liver warrants dragging out the
CLO, I agree that CLO isn't bad--if it's used for the right reason.

Feeding CLO for the Omega 3 fatty acids is like going to Chicago for
some file gumbo.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (16)
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8a. Re: Illness
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:05 am ((PDT))

"ivanthegreat1990" <lovemysd@...> wrote:
>
> My dog got hurt and broken leg, now pinned. Is it a good idea to
> still do raw because he's having problems with it and imune
> system?
*****
There is never a good reason to feed sick food to a sick dog. Yes,
feed raw food and rejoice that you have such powerful medicine to offer.

Perhaps you are confusing "auto-immune disease" with "immune system".
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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9.1. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:11 am ((PDT))

"Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...> wrote:
>
> Although I **highly** recommend diluting the white vinegar. Have you
ever
> stuck your head in a crate to wipe out the vinegar you just spritzed
in
> there? <grin> If it hurts me to smell it, I can only imagine what
it does
> to a dog's more sensitive sniffer!
*****
What would you rather? If not H2O2, what? Not bleach I don't think.

For rigorous cleaning up I use a vodka/water spritz (vodka is cheaper
than Everclear) because for me the smell of vinegar is inextricably
related to food. Prolly good old soap and water would clean a crate's
insides just fine.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (200)
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9.2. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:22 am ((PDT))

I don't even clean my crates, but once every couple of months. But when I
do have to clean up the infrequent smelly leftovers (that's what the other
dogs are for, eh?) I use diluted white vinegar 'cause otherwise the
inhalation is painful to my nose. For those every couple of months
cleaning....it's a scrubber and soap and water.

But bleach? No way, no how.

On 10/18/07, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:
What would you rather? If not H2O2, what? Not bleach I don't think.

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (200)
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9.3. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:13 pm ((PDT))

"Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...> wrote:
>
> I don't even clean my crates, but once every couple of months.
*****
I, too, have little time allocated to cleaning crates.

But when I
> do have to clean up the infrequent smelly leftovers (that's what the
other
> dogs are for, eh?) I use diluted white vinegar
*****
I didn't mean straight vinegar! Egad, I can't breathe just thinking
about inhaling straight vinegar fumes. I meant in a water spritz.
Instead of the bleach. We are most definitely on the same page.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (200)
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10.1. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:13 am ((PDT))

Actually, it's quite nutritious stuff. According to analysis at
greentripe.com....

Green Tripe -
Protein10%
Fat5.0%
Fiber4.0%
Moisture78%
Calcium0.7%
Phosphorous0.7%
Magnesium0.
Potassium0.
B-Complex0.6
Trace Minerals1.
Essential Amino Acids
Taurine
Omega 3 & 6
Vitamin A, C, D, E

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "carnesbill" <carnesw@bellsouth.net>

Personally, I think even green tripe is a highly over rated food. I
don't see much nutrition in it. It's basically a sack.

Messages in this topic (220)
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10.2. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:07 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, it's quite nutritious stuff. According to analysis at
> greentripe.com

Greentripe.com sells the stuff. Of course they are going to make
them look good just as kibble companies make kibble look good to the
untrained eye.

You think green tripe is nutritious, look at how nutritious chicken
backs are:
Chicken Backs contain: protein, fat, calcium, iron, magnesium,
phophorus, Potassium, sodium, Zink, copper, manganese, selenium,
Vitamin C, Thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, Pantothentic Acid, Vitamin B-
6, Foliate, Vitamin B-12, Vitamin A, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, lipids,
amino acids.

That information is per the USDA web site. They don't even sell
backs but they look pretty nutirious. I know you don't think
chicken backs are nutritious but it looks like they are at least as
nutritious as green tripe which is a sack with some partially
digested grass clinging to it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (220)
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10.3. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:20 pm ((PDT))

On Oct 18, 2007, at 11:31 AM, carnesbill wrote:

>
> That information is per the USDA web site. They don't even sell
> backs but they look pretty nutirious. I know you don't think
> chicken backs are nutritious but it looks like they are at least as
> nutritious as green tripe which is a sack with some partially
> digested grass clinging to it.
>

Firstly, the analysis at greentripe.com is an independent lab
evaluation, not something they concocted, but one they sought out to
quell the false info being presented by vets and others with an axe
to grind.

Secondly, you are absolutely right! Both items are equally nutritious
and important in that, and only in that, they are parts of the whole
animal. Neither are absolutely necessary, and you'd have to be crazy
to feed only one, or only the other, maybe a little less crazy to not
try at all to feed as much of as many animals as possible, within
practical constraints.

You'd do best to answer green tripe questions with a nod toward
variety, rather than an invidious comparison to another extremely
limited nutritional example.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (220)
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10.4. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))

"carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
> Greentripe.com sells the stuff. Of course they are going to make
> them look good just as kibble companies make kibble look good to
the
> untrained eye.
*****
Bill, you got your hat on backwards today for sure.

>> I know you don't think
> chicken backs are nutritious but it looks like they are at least as
> nutritious as green tripe which is a sack with some partially
> digested grass clinging to it.
*****
You seem to miss the very point you are making: that green tripe
is "at least as nutritious" as chicken backs. Which makes it no less
valuable than chicken backs in a varied raw diet. To deny the
usefulness of one's nutritional profile is to deny the value of the
other. A hunk of bone with some meat and fat clinging to it is
clearly no better--or worse--than a sack with some partially digested
green stuff clinging to it.

They both have their place in a raw diet.
Neither of them are star-quality headliners.
Or both are.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (220)
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10.5. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "jrtsnabc" jrtsnabc@yahoo.com jrtsnabc
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:56 pm ((PDT))

Hopefully we aren't going to start comparing a raw food option to kibble!!!

According to the USDA web site, tripe (don't supposing it's green)
has most of these nutrients as well! Glad I feed both green tripe and
chicken...

Katherine and the raw-fed/non-vax JRTs & BC
Nunn, CO

----- Original Message ----
From: carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 12:31:00 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Tripe

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogro ups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:

Greentripe.com sells the stuff. Of course they are going to make

them look good just as kibble companies make kibble look good to the

untrained eye.

You think green tripe is nutritious, look at how nutritious chicken

backs are:

Chicken Backs contain: protein, fat, calcium, iron, magnesium,

phophorus, Potassium, sodium, Zink, copper, manganese, selenium,

Vitamin C, Thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, Pantothentic Acid, Vitamin B-

6, Foliate, Vitamin B-12, Vitamin A, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, lipids,

amino acids.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (220)
________________________________________________________________________

10.6. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:56 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
>
> You seem to miss the very point you are making: that green tripe
> is "at least as nutritious" as chicken backs. Which makes it
> no less
> valuable than chicken backs in a varied raw diet.

Exactly the point I was trying not so successfully to make. Many
speak of green tripe like its some kind of super food and speak with
distain about chicken backs. The point I was making is that they
are both about equal in nutritional value or lack of nutritional
value.

Green tripe is not a super food nor is it particularly nutritious
nor nearly valuable enough to go to the touble, expense, and discust
one has to go through to buy it and feed it. :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (220)
________________________________________________________________________

10.7. Re: Tripe
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:09 pm ((PDT))

"carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> Green tripe is not a super food nor is it particularly nutritious
> nor nearly valuable enough to go to the touble, expense, and discust
> one has to go through to buy it and feed it. :)
*****
And equally, chicken backs are not super food and are not particularly
nutritious. They are worth no more effort--and no less effort--than
green tripe requires.

Messages in this topic (220)
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11a. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
Posted by: "scalla70" tanbrin@rogers.com scalla70
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:15 am ((PDT))

Denise,

Quote "Liver is not
> optional, it is the one organ your dog has to have. "

How often does a dog need to have liver? per week, per month?

Thanks.

Judy
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Strother"
<denisestrother@...> wrote:
>
> Vickie,
> The only way you are going to fix this problem is by being the
> deciscion maker. As long as your dog decides what she will and won't
> eat this is going to be a problem. I did not let my children decide
> what they would and would not eat, I don't let my dogs decide what to
> eat. I take into consideration my dogs likes and dislikes, but you
> will find that once your dogs learn to eat what is given to them or do
> without, they are usually not as picky as before. Liver is not
> optional, it is the one organ your dog has to have. There are many
> tricks people use to get their dogs to eat it. Check the archives. I
> foster dogs of all ages, shapes and sizes. I seldom have problems with
> switching dogs to raw and the few I have are easily taken care of by a
> little tough love. Your dog was not starving, she does have you
> trained though. Quit being a pushover and be the pack leader instead
> of letting her make adult decisions. Denise
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Vickie" dals4creekside@ wrote:
> She went for almost 4 days like that, refusing to eat it. I finally
> saw her loosing some weight and couldn't stand her not eating when she
> clearly was starving so I cut the meat into chunks and she happily
ate.
> The other problem I have is organs............. she will not eat raw
> organs. I have to semi cook with seasoning on it to get her to eat it.
> Any suggestions you have will be greatly appreciated. I believe the
> younger you start them out on total raw the better off you are.
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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11b. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:56 am ((PDT))

It should be at most 5% of the dog's diet. If you choose to feed once
a week, it should be a chunk that weighs about 5% of the weekly food
amount. Likewise, once a month you could feed a chunk that is about 5%
a month's worth of food. There's no required time frame, it just
should be fed at some point.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "scalla70" <tanbrin@...> wrote:

> How often does a dog need to have liver? per week, per month?

Messages in this topic (7)
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11c. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:07 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "scalla70" <tanbrin@...> wrote:
>

> How often does a dog need to have liver? per week, per month?
>
Don't let anyone fool you. There is only one absolutely correct
anser to that. The answer is "some". There is no set amount. My
dogs get "a glob or two" every "week or so, sometimes twice a week.
Sometimes a big glob, sometimes a little glob."

Don't try to get too precise with the diet. You will drive yourself
crazy. :) Feed meat, bones, and organs from a variety of animals.
Feed mostly meat, some bone, and some organs. Thats all
the "precise" you need. :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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11d. Re: problem, ugggggggggg
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:26 pm ((PDT))

If you look at the 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs with 5% of that
being liver, then 5% of their total diet should be liver. I do not
weigh my dogs meals, or plan them very far ahead. I just feed
liver ... sometimes. Sometimes once a week, sometimes every couple
of weeks. Or any variation that includes at least once a month. I
might have skipped a month somewhere though. Some people are more
comfortable with smaller amounts more frequently. Some dogs don't do
well (gastronomically speaking) with whole meal amounts of liver,
some do. You just have to find what works for you and your dog(s),
but it should average out to about 5% of the dogs overall diet over
time. Denise

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "scalla70" <tanbrin@...> wrote:

> How often does a dog need to have liver? per week, per month?

Messages in this topic (7)
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12. Re: Anal glands prone to infection-treating the gland..Patricia.
Posted by: "Ladynyny@aol.com" Ladynyny@aol.com cathalmightywarrior
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:57 pm ((PDT))

Patricia,
Your Very Welcome. Not many people know that this can be done, I for sure
did not. But it does make sense. Treat the part directly that needs the
treating.

I would imagine there has to be some discomfort for the antibiotic to go
directly into the anal gland itself but I will tell you this is Well Worth It.
The dog didn't show any discomfort afterwards, nope not at all. I actually
think the dog was relieved not to have the pain anymore. My dog hasn't had
an episode in ONE YEAR.

I tried giving her more bone in her Raw feeding thinking this would help
her express on her own but it did not. Like I said this had been going on
for years and my dog has been fed a RAW diet since she was 4 weeks old from
her Breeder. Some dogs are prone to this.

Good Luck. Terry

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