Feed Pets Raw Food: Jul 23, 2007

Monday, July 23, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11836

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma
From: Greta Hill

2. Dog with IVDD
From: marblekallie

3a. Re: mixign proteins
From: Sandee Lee
3b. Re: mixign proteins
From: bluegracepwd
3c. Re: mixign proteins
From: delcaste

4a. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: Sandee Lee
4b. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: Mike Devlin
4c. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: Sandee Lee

5a. Re: Happy to tears, but what about frozen raw?
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: fish bones
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Digest Number 11834
From: costrowski75
7b. Re: Digest Number 11834
From: pet.wellness

8a. Re: Where to find fish
From: Morledzep@aol.com
8b. Re: Where to find fish
From: Laurie Swanson
8c. Re: Where to find fish
From: emil smolensky
8d. Re: Where to find fish
From: temy1102

9a. Re: Raw Feeding Books
From: Sandee Lee
9b. Re: Raw Feeding Books
From: carnesbill

10a. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
From: Sandee Lee

11a. Summary for your newest member
From: Naomi Bjorgan

12.1. Re: itchy skin
From: LaUrA
12.2. Re: itchy skin
From: pet.wellness
12.3. Re: itchy skin
From: Sandee Lee

13a. Re: Question about new adopted cat...
From: linoleum5017

14a. Re: Leaving dogs for the weekend
From: Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com

Messages
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1a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma
Posted by: "Greta Hill" GretaHill@aol.com sunstate23
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:35 pm ((PDT))

I do exactly what Giselle does - I package everything into single
servings, and thaw just before I need it. I've done this for years - I
had to, because for years all I had was the freezer space in the house
fridge, and single servings took up less room then things like whole
chickens. I personally can't stand the smell of spoiled meat and won't
feed it, but I'm happy to say that I haven't thrown anything out in
years.

Greta

Messages in this topic (4)
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2. Dog with IVDD
Posted by: "marblekallie" marble@pipeline.com marblekallie
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:36 pm ((PDT))

Hi:

Is anyone here feeding an IVDD (Intevetebral Disc Disease) dog? I ask
because I would like to know what you have found out about supplements
under these special circumstances. I have had periods feeding a lot
of them, and periods feeding none but salmon oil. Also, is there
anything special you would feed in this case.

Philippa Jordan
New York City

Messages in this topic (1)
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3a. Re: mixign proteins
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:55 pm ((PDT))

Kellie,

She is getting too much bone. Both the ribs and backs are far too
bony....you need to add meat, not another chicken part. For beef you can
feed cheeks, heart, briskets, etc. Or add some nice meaty pork meals.

Again, necks are far too much bone...you might want to split a chicken
breast in order to increase meat intake when you feed chicken.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Kellie Verrelli" <ktverrelli@bellsouth.net>

> my girl has been enjoying the different meals but when I do the beef
> ribs it seems to me that she is still getting
> too much bone (she gets chicken back in am) I can't seem to find beef
> with more meat then bone
>
> so I wonder can I add say a chicken thigh or heart to give her a bit
> more meat
>
> it seems to me that her poo is a big dry - not white but with it been
> summer and HOT I don't want her to
> dehydrate.
>
> also for a dog who is 20lb would chicken necks be bad (I ask because
> chicken backs seem too much)

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: mixign proteins
Posted by: "bluegracepwd" janea@tpg.com.au bluegracepwd
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:06 pm ((PDT))

Hi Kellie,

sounds like you need to add more meat. Chicken necks are next to
useless, as they have hardly any meat. Try chicken thighs. My toy
poodles get through those no problem.

And don't panic about mixing proteins. Goodness knows where that myth
popped up from.

cheers,

Jane

Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: mixign proteins
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:17 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Kellie Verrelli <ktverrelli@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi all
> my girl has been enjoying the different meals but when I do the beef
> ribs it seems to me that she is still getting
> too much bone

Hi Kellie,

When I give mine "meaty bones" that are lacking meat, I add more meat
or even tongue, heart, gizzards. I try to give them organs especially
liver every other day. This seems to keep the poop ok. I'm new to this
so still learning a lot :)

Silvina and the pugs

Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:00 pm ((PDT))

Hi Mike,

Yes, you are missing variety in body parts, protein sources, and meat! Get
that little guy some pork, fish, lamb, beef...whatever you can find in your
area and give him some nice meaty meals.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "emdeefa" <mdevlin@aisle10.net>

so lately I have been feeding chicken theighs and chicken liver twice
a day. My puppy is around 24lbs, so I have been feeding right around a
pound a day, Usually it ends up being 1 theigh in the morning, and 1
at night with 1 liver with each meal. Also, sometimes in the morning I
will throw in a raw egg.

Aside from trying to find better deals on food, or throwing in some
variety to keep things interesting, and I missing anything important?
I am going to start throwing in some fish oil too, but other than
that, am I missing anything?

Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "Mike Devlin" mdevlin@aisle10.net emdeefa
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:11 pm ((PDT))

So your saying more quantity as well? or just more variety? like maybe pork
one day or meal, and beef another one, chicken another one...etc and with
the beef/pork and such, since those bones are harder, should I be
supplementing those meals with a more boney piece of chicken and taking away
the beef/pork bones after he picks them clean?

- Mike

On 7/23/07, Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Yes, you are missing variety in body parts, protein sources, and meat! Get
> that little guy some pork, fish, lamb, beef...whatever you can find in
> your
> area and give him some nice meaty meals.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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4c. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:30 pm ((PDT))

Just more variety...and more meat. Most pork bones will edible, beef won't.
But you only need bone as 10% of the overall diet so don't worry about
adding bone. It's not necessary.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Mike Devlin" <mdevlin@aisle10.net>

> So your saying more quantity as well? or just more variety? like maybe
pork
> one day or meal, and beef another one, chicken another one...etc and with
> the beef/pork and such, since those bones are harder, should I be
> supplementing those meals with a more boney piece of chicken and taking
away
> the beef/pork bones after he picks them clean?

Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Re: Happy to tears, but what about frozen raw?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:11 pm ((PDT))

"Stephanie Martello" <einahpets13@...> wrote:
>
> I do have a question, is there a benefit to remaining on a
> prepackaged frozen
*****
Nope.

or is it better overall to feed whole parts?
*****
Yes, you betcha.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: fish bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:28 pm ((PDT))

"delcaste" <delcaste@...> wrote:
I was given some fresh
> water fish, Chiclid and Blue Gill Bass, and was wondering if the
> bones are ok to feed along with the head?
*****
Assuming they are raw, yes.

I just started with the raw
> diet so I"M the apprehensive one here.
*****
I understand. A whole lotta stuff you've never done before or even
considered.

The pigglets I have will gulp
> this food and I'm scared it might be too much for them (the pugs, I
> think the Pittie pup can handle a fish).
*****
I don't know how big the fish are, so they might be too big for the
pups to finish off, but unless they're like minnows or anchovies or
small sardines they're not likely to be small enough to swallow.

Most likely what'll happen is your pugs will poke at a fish, probably
lick it, maybe try to roll on it and/or carry it off somewhere for
further investigation. If they eat into it they may take a few
mouthfuls and then quit, or they could chomp through the whole thing
BUT unless the fish is bitsy, I doubt they even try to gulp the fish
down.

Not to say it guaranteed, but expect digestive upheaval.
Let us know, hey?

the guy's wife wouldn't help
> him clean them so...I got 'em.
*****
The guy's gonna go fishing and actually catch somthing, you'd think
he could clean them. But no.

"Fishy fishy in the brook,
Daddy catch 'em with a hook.
Momma fry 'em in a pan.
Baby eat 'em like a man."
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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7a. Re: Digest Number 11834
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:29 pm ((PDT))

Bumble1994@... wrote:
>
>
> i never seen a wild animal actually eating the fur of the prey...
> or maybe i'm just wrong?
*****
How much time have you put into the watching? What animals have you
watched? Where?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: Digest Number 11834
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:17 pm ((PDT))

My standard poodle ate a whole warren of bunnies, fur and all. Pamela

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Bumble1994@... wrote:
>
>
> i never seen a wild animal actually eating the fur of the prey...
> or maybe i'm just wrong?

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: Where to find fish
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:39 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/23/2007 4:35:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
millser25@yahoo.com writes:

Does anyone have any suggestions about where to find fresh or frozen
small fish for a good price? I just can't find any fresh or frozen
sardines, smelt, herring, etc.

Erica,

try your local ethnic grocery stores.. almost all have a meat and/or fish
counter with types of fish not normally found in mainstream grocery stores.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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8b. Re: Where to find fish
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:15 pm ((PDT))

Asian markets usually have a good selection and good prices. I've
gotten smelt and mackarel there. Just watch out for dried fish at
Asian markets--I got some dried, frozen anchovies and salt wasn't
listed in the ingredients, but they were super-salty and my dog would
drink a ton of water following eating a handful of these. I don't know
if it was just from the salt water or what. Whole Foods near me used
to have some really good, fresh, whole sardines, but haven't had them
the last couple times I've checked. I've never looked into bait shops,
but that might be worth a try.

Laurie (Seattle)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "millser25" <millser25@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions about where to find fresh or frozen
> small fish for a good price?

Messages in this topic (5)
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8c. Re: Where to find fish
Posted by: "emil smolensky" esmolensky@yahoo.com esmolensky
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:16 pm ((PDT))

Any asian, latin or other ethinic markets should carry many different kinds of fish.
Chinatown, koreatown if available are fantastic!

EMIL

----- Original Message ----
From: millser25 <millser25@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 7:54:06 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Where to find fish

Does anyone have any suggestions about where to find fresh or frozen
small fish for a good price? I just can't find any fresh or frozen
sardines, smelt, herring, etc.
Thanks,
Erica

____________________________________________________________________________________
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Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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8d. Re: Where to find fish
Posted by: "temy1102" tammy.a.jp@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:17 pm ((PDT))

i buy tons of mackerel pike from the asian market for less than 1.50 a lb.

tammy & grover

Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. Re: Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:35 pm ((PDT))

Stephanie,

This is not something you are going to find in any book. You don't need to
feed a whole carcass in order to feed an appropriate diet. Feed as many
body parts and protein sources as possible. Looks like you are feeding
mainly chicken...branch out into pork, fish, lamb, turkey, etc.

I realize it may be more difficult than scooping a cup out of a bag each
meal, but just look at your dogs. If one is thin, feed more, if one is
heavy, feed less, if one eats too quickly, feed larger portions. It really
is not difficult and will soon become second nature. Just relax and feed
your dogs...lots and lots of meat, a little bone and organs. You don't need
a book to tell you how to do that.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Boxer Lover" <boxer.love@yahoo.com>

> Just anything more I can learn to give my dogs the best possible. I can't
nessasaraly throw each of my dogs a whole carcus each meal so I want to make
sure I'm giving them everything they need. Also some meats are quite pricey
around me (or not available) so that limits the veriaty. I'm also concerned
about the correct amount. I'm realizing the amount is a geussing game, but
it's been harder to figure out than I thought it would be.
>
> Below is what each of my dogs are being fed. Any coments would be
appriciated.
>
> Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday-Meaty Chicken Bones
> Monday-Beef Heart
> Wednesday-Beef Liver
> Friday-Beef Kidney
>
> I used to feed twice a day, but have just recently changed to once per day
(2 weeks ago). Feeding once a day has made my finiky eater finish all his
food. I have two dogs that put on weight easier than the other two. One
eats her food within seconds and I've been able to take her excess weight
off since switching to raw (5 months ago). Since switching to once a day
meals, she is looking too thin. The other eats his food quickly too. He
used to maintain his weight before being neutered, but afterward he put on
quite a bit. I'm slowly taking it off, but I don't want him too thin
either.
>
> The other two I have a harder time keeping weight on them. They are both
extremely active and maintaining their weight is important since they travel
quite a bit to shows. One is a male, not quite 2 yet and a finiky eater.
The other, a female, will eat almost anything and eats fast. She can pack
it on fast and then take it back off fast.
>
> Stephanie

Messages in this topic (16)
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9b. Re: Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:16 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Boxer Lover <boxer.love@...> wrote:
>
> Are there any books you can recommend on raw feeding? I have "Raw
Meaty Bones" by Tom Lonsdale, but I would like to read more. Any
suggestions would be appreciated.
>
Did you read "Work Wonders" by Tom Lonsdale yet? If not you can
download it for free from http://www.rawmeatybones.com

Just click on
the book on the opening page to get to the download part. IMO it's
the most useful of his two books.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (16)
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10a. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:44 pm ((PDT))

Hi Lee,

She may be ok with three meals a day. If she is able to eat enough to
sustain her in three meals without any digestive issues, that's fine.
Figure feeding 2-3% of her ideal adult weight and divide it up into 3-4
meals per day, whatever works for you and her.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "lmustoe" <lmustoe@yahoo.co.uk>
I might be feeding her to much because when i try and feed her the 4th
meal in the evening she does not want to eat it and just leaves it.
I just thought that because raw is so nutritous that she might not need
that much? Thats why i thought i'd ask so i didnt get it wrong.Please
let me know what you think.

Messages in this topic (8)
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11a. Summary for your newest member
Posted by: "Naomi Bjorgan" ngbjorgan@gmail.com ngbjorgan
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:13 pm ((PDT))

Hello Everyone,

My name is Naomi and my husband and two small sons are in Davao City
Philippines as missionaries. We just arrived here in mid-June from
Vancouver Canada. We will be getting a paper lab pup next week and we
have VOWED to maintain a raw food diet for any animal coming under our
roof. As a child I grew up with our pets on kibble and now the very
thought of doing that to an animal seems cruel. Raw makes sense!

Being new to this I just want to clarify what I have read from the
whopping 63 emails which arrived in my inbox today. I want to be sure
our new pup Sheba gets off to a good start.

What I believe I've learned:
1) Dogs don't need any veggies or fruit at all
2) Whole raw carcasses of a variety of meats is perfect
3) Whole fish is excellent and should be included at least two times/wk
4) Never feed grains of any sort
5) Puppies should be fed 3 - 4times per day

Where I am not sure is:
1) Are kelp, bone-meal and fish oils necessary if one is doing the above?
2) How many raw eggs (including the shell) for a lab in a week?
3) Is there anything I'm missing that I should know before we get this
puppy?

Any clarification on any of the above would be greatly appreciated.

Blessings,

Naomi

++++++++++Mod note: signature removed by mod +++++++++

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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12.1. Re: itchy skin
Posted by: "LaUrA" laurasue17@hotmail.com angel_2_u_23
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:13 pm ((PDT))

We have been feeding chicken of all kinds (backs, necks, legs, hearts, etc), pork (hearts, necks, head meat, etc), beef (liver, kidney, etc), turkey necks, backs, and hearts too, egg made them really gassy, we feed yogurt, cottage cheese, veggie mush, jack mackerel (canned). That's all I can think of right now. Snoopy itches a bit more then Zoey does. Snoopy tends to be a bit more sensitive then Zoey, stomach wise and skin wise too. It's not fleas or ticks.

Laura
Proud Mommy to Miss Samantha (9 years old going on 16! LOL!!) and step mom to Heather -17, Nikki - 14 and Michelle - 8 - the most beautiful girls in the world!!!!!
Mom to furbabies: Snoopy (male - neutered - 10 month old - pit mix - 60lbs.) and Zoey (super smart hearing impaired female - spayed - 6 month old - pit mix - approx. 40lbs.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (43)
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12.2. Re: itchy skin
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:15 pm ((PDT))

My dog's itchy skin is improving every day now that we eliminated
chicken from his diet. (I know. That hurts the budget. But it's so
worth it to see him relaxed and not scratching himself to pieces.) Pamela

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "LaUrA" <laurasue17@...> wrote:
>
> What could we add to our dogs diet to help with their itchy skin?
> Any suggestions would be great, thank you!
>

Messages in this topic (43)
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12.3. Re: itchy skin
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:32 pm ((PDT))

Laura,

Add a lot more meat and dump the yogurt, cottage cheese and veggies and see
how that goes! Looks like you are feeding a lot of bony portions that are
lacking in meat and fat.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "LaUrA" <laurasue17@hotmail.com>

> We have been feeding chicken of all kinds (backs, necks, legs, hearts,
etc), pork (hearts, necks, head meat, etc), beef (liver, kidney, etc),
turkey necks, backs, and hearts too, egg made them really gassy, we feed
yogurt, cottage cheese, veggie mush, jack mackerel (canned). That's all I
can think of right now. Snoopy itches a bit more then Zoey does. Snoopy
tends to be a bit more sensitive then Zoey, stomach wise and skin wise too.
It's not fleas or ticks.

Messages in this topic (43)
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13a. Re: Question about new adopted cat...
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:15 pm ((PDT))

Cindy,

Sounds like normal cat behavior to me. Don't think you should look
at it as negative. Be glad they know how much to take in!

If you were to do anything for Rescue Boy, perhaps it would be to
scratch the surface of the rawfood, so he knows there's meat
inside..?.... or maybe he will just rawchat with his new feline
roomies, and they'll give him all the good advice they've learned
from the past 4 and 1/2 years!

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cindy Marabito <doggirl1@...>
wrote:
>
> I live with three senior cats who have been quite a challenge
getting
> to eat raw. We've been at it for four and a half years. They do
eat
> 100% raw/edible bone/organ, but every time there is a clean plate
> day, we'll seem to take two strides back the next day meaning
either
> they barely touch their food the next morning and then maybe eat
only
> half that evening. I am bringing a new rescue boy (according to
Anita
> Frazier's directions) into the house this week and would like to
get
> him transitioning over to raw. I have a couple of plans, but
would
> really appreciate your input and any advice and tips you might
have.
> This means anything and everything. The ideas that work for me
will
> go on my websites if that's ok. Thanks so much, Cindy
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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14a. Re: Leaving dogs for the weekend
Posted by: "Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com" Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com irishcateyes1
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:16 pm ((PDT))

AWWW!! Too wonderful! Wish I could share that with my dad too----he would
have been just as cool about it after the explanation though--lol!. ;) (he
passed away 4 years ago) Maggie, you are so lucky he shares with you like this
too and listens; I love it! Thanks for making me smile!! :) Tamatha

In a message dated 7/22/2007 3:33:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
maggie.taylor@artlover.com writes:

So then my
Dad starts asking about chicken bones which had me very confused.
"Where did the bones go?!" 'In the dog, Dad.' "What?! No, where
would he have hidden them??" 'Ummm? He ate them?' "Why would he do
that?" 'That's what dogs do? Don't worry about it...' It took me
about 10 minutes to convince my Dad that it was okay - good even -
that he didn't see bones because Diesel had eaten them. The next meal
he stuck around for and watched in total fascination as Diesel did, in
fact, consume the entire chicken quarter - bones and all. Then I got
another phone call about how fascinated he was by this.

Maggie
Diesel, SDIT

Any dog can teach a child responsibility and commitment.

A German Shepherd Dog will show the child the meaning
of dedication.

"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life,
his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true, to the last beat of
his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." --Unknown

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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Messages in this topic (11)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11835

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: New Puppy, New to rawfeeding, Help!
From: brenda

2a. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
From: lmustoe

3a. Re: Raw Feeding Books
From: Boxer Lover
3b. Re: Raw Feeding Books
From: magolin0328

4a. Re: Update :) Re: Cheap meat sources, and an egg question
From: Casey Post

5a. Re: Question about new adopted cat...
From: Cindy Marabito

6.1. itchy skin
From: LaUrA
6.2. Re: itchy skin
From: Giselle
6.3. Re: itchy skin
From: Morledzep@aol.com

7a. missing stuff in diet
From: emdeefa
7b. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: Morledzep@aol.com

8a. Re: fish bones
From: delcaste
8b. Re: fish bones
From: Morledzep@aol.com
8c. Re: fish bones
From: Charles Kline

9. Re: Digest Number 11834
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

10a. Re: Canine Nutrition
From: meg_helmes
10b. Re: Canine Nutrition
From: merril Woolf
10c. Re: Canine Nutrition
From: Morledzep@aol.com

11a. Re: Fly Issues
From: delcaste

12a. Re: Feeding once a day
From: Morledzep@aol.com

13a. Re: Looking for a raw co-op
From: Morledzep@aol.com

14a. Re: Mange and protecting from it
From: Morledzep@aol.com

15a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma
From: Morledzep@aol.com

16. mixign proteins
From: Kellie Verrelli

17. Where to find fish
From: millser25

Messages
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1a. Re: New Puppy, New to rawfeeding, Help!
Posted by: "brenda" brendanbreeze@hotmail.com breezenlexi
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:14 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Ann" <maryanndiaz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mary Ann - grats on the new puppy. You will have a great time
with raw feeding. There are lots of very experienced people on here
that can answer all your questions and keep you sane while you are
learning. Fear tends to slow down our forward momentum and you found
the perfect place to remove any doubts and fears. Knowldege and asking
every question you can think of. I just want to add my 2 cents here.
You really only need a vet in the case of an emergency. I think most
people here also do not vaccinate. There is a sister list called Truth
about vaccines. You might want to join that group also and research.
You will really save yourself alot of heartache and money by doing so.
Anyway, good luck with your new pup. Brenda
>
> I am very very new to raw feeding! I just got a new puppy, taking her
> to the vet on monday but I'm guessing she is no older than 12-16
> weeks. -Mary Ann-
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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2a. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
Posted by: "lmustoe" lmustoe@yahoo.co.uk lmustoe
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:15 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Lee,
>
> She should be fed at least 3 if not 4 times a day. What do you mean
she
> can't manage this on raw????
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> Hi Sandee
Thank you for your reply,
I might be feeding her to much because when i try and feed her the 4th
meal in the evening she does not want to eat it and just leaves it.
I just thought that because raw is so nutritous that she might not need
that much? Thats why i thought i'd ask so i didnt get it wrong.Please
let me know what you think.
Lee
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "Boxer Lover" boxer.love@yahoo.com boxer.love
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:15 pm ((PDT))

Just anything more I can learn to give my dogs the best possible. I can't nessasaraly throw each of my dogs a whole carcus each meal so I want to make sure I'm giving them everything they need. Also some meats are quite pricey around me (or not available) so that limits the veriaty. I'm also concerned about the correct amount. I'm realizing the amount is a geussing game, but it's been harder to figure out than I thought it would be.

Below is what each of my dogs are being fed. Any coments would be appriciated.

Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday-Meaty Chicken Bones
Monday-Beef Heart
Wednesday-Beef Liver
Friday-Beef Kidney

I used to feed twice a day, but have just recently changed to once per day (2 weeks ago). Feeding once a day has made my finiky eater finish all his food. I have two dogs that put on weight easier than the other two. One eats her food within seconds and I've been able to take her excess weight off since switching to raw (5 months ago). Since switching to once a day meals, she is looking too thin. The other eats his food quickly too. He used to maintain his weight before being neutered, but afterward he put on quite a bit. I'm slowly taking it off, but I don't want him too thin either.

The other two I have a harder time keeping weight on them. They are both extremely active and maintaining their weight is important since they travel quite a bit to shows. One is a male, not quite 2 yet and a finiky eater. The other, a female, will eat almost anything and eats fast. She can pack it on fast and then take it back off fast.

Stephanie

----- Original Message ----
From: Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 12:51:20 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Raw Feeding Books

Nope! Haven't seen any yet that feed according to species. Is there
something specific you are looking for?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Boxer Lover" <boxer.love@yahoo. com>

> Are there any books you can recommend on raw feeding? I have "Raw Meaty
Bones" by Tom Lonsdale, but I would like to read more. Any suggestions
would be appreciated.

____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

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Messages in this topic (14)
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3b. Re: Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "magolin0328" maggie.taylor@artlover.com magolin0328
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:51 pm ((PDT))

Chicken and pork are the two most used meats in Diesel's diet.
They're cheap and easy to come by.

I buy whole chickens that come with the nice little package of
innards. I open the little bag and dump them back inside the bird so
he can eat them when he gets there.

For pork I nearly always buy pork shoulder roasts. He's supposed to
eat somewhere around a pound a day based on the 2-3% of his ideal body
weight (he's about 45lbs) formula. He gets a little over a week of
boneless meals from that and then a meal or two with a lot of bone.

I rarely feed him entire organ meals. I just offer a piece of liver
and/or kidney a couple times a week if he's eating something other
than chicken.

He also gets duck, salmon, beef, lamb and goat when its on sale. He
doesn't like rabbit so I don't give that, but I give him pretty much
anything else I find.

I found a local supplier that gets some of the more unusual parts, so
he gets beef trachea's which he LOVES, beef heart, etc. And there's
another one that's a 3 hour drive from me that I'm going to order a
bunch of stuff from soon and go pick it up.

I don't really measure anything before giving it to him. He was a
shelter dog and I switched him as soon as I got him, but he was kibble
fed for the first 2 years of his life. He had kind of odd eating
habits when I first got him either refusing to eat various things or
trying to inhale them, but after a couple months he figured things out
and now eats normally. Sometimes he eats just the pound he ought to,
sometimes he eats more and sometimes less. He seems to stay at a
perfectly fine weight if I just leave things up to him.

For pretty much everything I feed him, I operate on the thought that
he knows how much he needs. If he chooses not to eat something on a
given day, I just pick it up and put it back in the fridge and bring
it out the next day.

What's your definition of 'too thin'? You ought to be able to feel
their ribs if you run their hand over them. If they actually get too
thin just increase the amount of food. Some dogs will need more than
others.

To slow a dog down if they're eating too fast give them huge pieces of
meat. Give each dog a whole chicken or half a chicken to get them to
slow down.

Maggie
Diesel, SDIT

Messages in this topic (14)
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4a. Re: Update :) Re: Cheap meat sources, and an egg question
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:26 pm ((PDT))

>>Today, I
> got two LARGE boxes of scraps and a HUGE garbage bag full!!! I'm
> thrilled as this should get us through these rough times. Our
> neighbours are great!!!!

Oh Courtenay, great news! May blessings like this continue to find you!

Casey

Messages in this topic (18)
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5a. Re: Question about new adopted cat...
Posted by: "Cindy Marabito" doggirl1@earthlink.net rowdycowgirl50
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

Thanks so much, but I only wish the cats were as enthusiastic about
their raw as the dogs. I do have one little particular chow gentleman
who can be rather picky, but two pit bulls who're very good at plate
cleaning and two rescue pups who'll literally eat anything. They were
rescued from being abandoned in the woods at just a couple of weeks,
so they really enjoy a good nutritious meal. Cats aren't like that,
I've noticed. Cindy

Messages in this topic (3)
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6.1. itchy skin
Posted by: "LaUrA" laurasue17@hotmail.com angel_2_u_23
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

What could we add to our dogs diet to help with their itchy skin?
Any suggestions would be great, thank you!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (40)
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6.2. Re: itchy skin
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:37 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Laura!
What exactly are you feeding now?
Are they all equally itchy?
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> What could we add to our dogs diet to help with their itchy skin?
> Any suggestions would be great, thank you!
>
> Laura
> Proud Mommy to Miss Samantha (9 years old going on 16! LOL!!) and
step mom to Heather -17, Nikki - 14 and Michelle - 8 - the most
beautiful girls in the world!!!!!
> Mom to furbabies: Snoopy (male - neutered - 10 month old - pit mix
- 60lbs.) and Zoey (super smart hearing impaired female - spayed - 6
month old - pit mix - approx. 40lbs.)

Messages in this topic (40)
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6.3. Re: itchy skin
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:28 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/23/2007 1:17:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,
laurasue17@hotmail.com writes:

What could we add to our dogs diet to help with their itchy skin?
Any suggestions would be great, thank you!

Laura,

Usually when my dogs start itching it's because of dry skin.. we add fattier
meats, salmon oil and eggs in this case.

Be sure you know the source of the itching, fleas, ticks and other creatures
need other treatment, salmon oil and a fattier diet won't make any difference
in that case.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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Messages in this topic (40)
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7a. missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "emdeefa" mdevlin@aisle10.net emdeefa
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:47 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

Thanks
Mike

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:42 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/23/2007 2:49:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mdevlin@aisle10.net writes:

Mike,

Chicken thighs with livers are NOT adequate nutrition. I know they are cheap
and easy to find in the grocery stores. And therefore you may feed them more
often than most other things. Believe me, i understand being on a budget.

BUT.. you NEED more variety, more body parts, MORE appropriate types of meat
(chicken is not the most species appropriate meat you can buy in a grocery
store). Pork roasts, picnics, cushion meat, shoulder butt roasts, spare ribs..
etc. are cheap or at the very least not very expensive in most grocery stores,
and even less expensive in ethnic markets (i can routinely go to the local
hispanic grocery stores and get whole pork picnics for less than $1 lb. and often
far less)

kidneys, livers, spleens, hearts from pigs, cows, lambs and goats are all
EXCELLENT sources of organ meats, and are often very inexpensive in ethnic
grocery stores. Liver should NEVER be the only organ you're feeding.

watch the grocery store sales, here is a website for checking major chain
grocery store ads every week:

_http://www.sundaysaver.com/#3_ (http://www.sundaysaver.com/#3)

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: fish bones
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:47 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
>
> Felicia Kost <saphiradane@> wrote:
> >
> > Are whole thawd fish safe, what about the sharp bones? .
>
All things being equal, whole is the best way to feed any fish.
Chris O

Hello, I have a question for you (again). I was given some fresh
water fish, Chiclid and Blue Gill Bass, and was wondering if the
bones are ok to feed along with the head? I just started with the raw
diet so I"M the apprehensive one here. The pigglets I have will gulp
this food and I'm scared it might be too much for them (the pugs, I
think the Pittie pup can handle a fish). BTW, I posted on Freecycle
for freezer burnt meat or fish and got these. They weren't frozen
they had been caught the day before and the guy's wife wouldn't help
him clean them so...I got 'em.

Silvina and the pugs

Messages in this topic (7)
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8b. Re: fish bones
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:24 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/23/2007 8:22:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
saphiradane@yahoo.com writes:

Are whole thawd fish safe, what about the sharp bones? Would a whole fish
count for the organ meat.Thanks for any advice

***whole fish is whole prey.. but it is NOT a substitute for organ meats.

and there is no problem with fish bones, as long as they are NOT cooked, they
are not sharp or dangerous until heat changes them into needles.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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Messages in this topic (7)
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8c. Re: fish bones
Posted by: "Charles Kline" ckline@rightcode.net roguecfm
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:35 pm ((PDT))

My pugs have no problem with whole fish, bone, guts, head... the
whole deal
- Charles

On Jul 23, 2007, at 7:24 PM, Morledzep@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 7/23/2007 8:22:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> saphiradane@yahoo.com writes:
>
> Are whole thawd fish safe, what about the sharp bones? Would a
> whole fish
> count for the organ meat.Thanks for any advice
>
> ***whole fish is whole prey.. but it is NOT a substitute for organ
> meats.
>
> and there is no problem with fish bones, as long as they are NOT
> cooked, they
> are not sharp or dangerous until heat changes them into needles.
>
> Catherine R.
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-
> new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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9. Re: Digest Number 11834
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:47 pm ((PDT))

i never seen a wild animal actually eating the fur of the prey...
or maybe i'm just wrong?

****
You are wrong. :) I have seen my cat eat the whole mouse, fur, skin, bones
and all. Quickly and happily.

Lynda

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: Canine Nutrition
Posted by: "meg_helmes" mhelmes@gmail.com meg_helmes
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:48 pm ((PDT))

Several Amur tigers I worked with were fed whole, feathered chickens
are enrichment, and they refused to eat the feathers. We all got the
biggest kick out of watching them licking all of the feathers off
before they would eat them - especially as their sandpaper tongues
would end up covered in feathers. They would huff and puff and wipe at
their tongues trying to get them off.

~Meg (& Ruby)

> i thought tha dogs/cats pluck off the feathers, fur, and hair of the
> prey? i never seen a wild animal actually eating the fur of the
prey...
> or maybe i'm just wrong?
>
> #### I don't think a Wolf would be able to skin a rabbit.
> Killed...chomp, bite..swallow, gone.
>
> A huge ungulate ...they rip open the stomach and go to town. Some
of the
> fur would be eaten...some not. It would vary on the kill.
>
> You just haven't seen enough Nature programs is all.. ;-))
>
> Chia & Ricco
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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10b. Re: Canine Nutrition
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:12 pm ((PDT))

> i thought tha dogs/cats pluck off the feathers, fur, and hair of the
> prey? i never seen a wild animal actually eating the fur of the prey...
> or maybe i'm just wrong?
>

My dogs don't like feathers, but they eat any hide/fur on the whole animals they eat.
They eat the whole thing actually depending on the size of the critter. Smaller animals are
fully consumed with nothing left - nothing.
When they get larger animals, they will sometimes leave a long bone or mandible or scull.
Sometimes nothing at all. THe hide is always eaten. They do spit out feathers though.

Merril

Messages in this topic (9)
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10c. Re: Canine Nutrition
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:55 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/23/2007 3:56:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com writes:

I thought dogs can eat somewhat of vegetables and fruits?(most of the
times meat/bones, but sometimes some greens?) cooking vegetables may
make it easier for them to digest it, i thought... so is all veggies and
fruits to be avoided? surely they can't all be poisonous to dogs and
cats.

****Dogs are opportunists.. they will eat what is handed to them, and what
they can scavenge from time to time. Veggies in general are not poisonous to
dogs, but some can cause allergic reactions or tummy upset.
This is also a training issue, some folks train their dogs to eat pieces of
carrots or fruit as "treats". Some dogs, like my big wolfdog, Simba, think
they need to eat what "mom" is eating.. and will gladly eat anything you hand
them because it came from you..

Nutritionally speaking dogs do NOT need vegetable matter, in any form, but
will eat rotting fruit falling off bushes and trees because it smells and tastes
sweet. Which is one of the reasons they are drawn to drinking anti-freeze..
it smells and tastes sweet, but it is poison. So you understand that because
a dog will eat it doesn't mean it's a good part of their diet..

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (9)
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11a. Re: Fly Issues
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:48 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
..... Also, check out www.fliesbegone.com

this is
> the best fly trap I've ever used!
>
> Andrea
>
>Andrea, I bought this fly trap on your recommendation and I agree with
you; it is the BEST fly trap. I'm in Miami so between feeding raw and
the mango trees, the flies had gotten to be a BIG problem. As usual,
somebody on this forum comes through for me again :)

Silvina and the pugs

Messages in this topic (8)
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12a. Re: Feeding once a day
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:22 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/22/2007 10:24:09 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jforbes05@sbcglobal.net writes:

Should I reduce the
amount so that she could consume a whole meal at one sitting or should
I just roll with the flow? When she's leaves left over food it makes
me think that something is wrong with her or the food.....Any
thoughts, please?

Jim,

are you hungry every single day? do you eat the same amount every day? we
all have days when we are hungrier than others, we have days when the foods we
love look like poison and other days when the stuff we normally wouldn't touch
with a 10 ft. pole looks like the best thing since sliced bread.

Dogs go through this too.. if she doesn't eat as much one day, it's no big
deal, but don't leave the food out. Pick it up, put it back in the fridge,
offer it again tomorrow, or later in the week.

Usually when my dogs don't finish a meal, or refuse to eat they get nothing
the next day also, i take it as a sign that they need a fast day. After about
2 years of not feeding them the day after they refused food, they stopped
refusing food.. lol.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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13a. Re: Looking for a raw co-op
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:34 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/20/2007 8:17:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
havanese1@bellsouth.net writes:

My question is does anyone know of a food co-op in central
Florida where I could purchase raw for my dogs?

Dolores,

this question is best asked on the Yahoo Group: Carnivor Feeder/Supplier

the link is in the files section.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (8)
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14a. Re: Mange and protecting from it
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:35 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/21/2007 1:55:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
grundt@xplornet.com writes:

All indications is that is is a
form of mange. Now, I¹m not a vet, the owners are aware that something is
wrong. They first blamed it on the GSD¹s (Oh, it¹s just bite marks!).

Brenda,

Mange is the overgrowth of a mite that is part of the normal inhabitants of
all dogs' skin. the best and in fact, ONLY defense, is a healthy immune
system.

The BEST way to build your dogs' immune system is to feed a varied species
appropriate diet as this list suggests. Huge hunks o meat, hunks o meat on
bones, and organ meats.

If the rawfeeding isn't building your dogs' inmune system quick enough and it
needs a boost you can buy beef colostrum powder in most healthfood stores and
add that to your dogs' food.

I give it to the older dogs regularly, the young ones before medical
procedures (like spay/neuter) and after until they are healed or if i see any sign
that they don't feel well.

I take it myself a couple weeks before and after surgery until i'm healed and
feeling normal again.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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15a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:45 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/22/2007 4:37:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Maiakitas@aol.com writes:

Any suggestions fellow raw feeders. Help me with these dang blasted picky and
particular
Akitas. :o)

Carla,

the best way to get an akita to eat is to let it miss a few meals.. they
aren't special, they are dogs just like every other dog. if you let it be picky,
it's your fault.. dogs are NOT the boss, you MUST be, especially with hard
headed dogs like akitas.

Catherine R.

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16. mixign proteins
Posted by: "Kellie Verrelli" ktverrelli@bellsouth.net verrelli
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:35 pm ((PDT))

Hi all
my girl has been enjoying the different meals but when I do the beef
ribs it seems to me that she is still getting
too much bone (she gets chicken back in am) I can't seem to find beef
with more meat then bone

so I wonder can I add say a chicken thigh or heart to give her a bit
more meat

it seems to me that her poo is a big dry - not white but with it been
summer and HOT I don't want her to
dehydrate.

also for a dog who is 20lb would chicken necks be bad (I ask because
chicken backs seem too much)
these little guys seem to put weigh on in the summer due to heat and
lack of movement and they appear to
be starving ;)

Thanks
Kellie

Messages in this topic (1)
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17. Where to find fish
Posted by: "millser25" millser25@yahoo.com millser25
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:35 pm ((PDT))

Does anyone have any suggestions about where to find fresh or frozen
small fish for a good price? I just can't find any fresh or frozen
sardines, smelt, herring, etc.
Thanks,
Erica

Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11834

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Question about new adopted cat...
From: Cindy Marabito
1b. Re: Question about new adopted cat...
From: Giselle

2a. Re: Canine Nutrition
From: Chia
2b. Re: Canine Nutrition
From: geraldinebutterfield

3a. Re: Prednisone and raw feeding
From: mwood8402

4a. Re: Dog weight loss - recommendations?
From: ginny wilken

5a. Raw Feeding Books
From: Boxer Lover
5b. Re: Raw Feeding Books
From: costrowski75
5c. Re: Raw Feeding Books
From: Sandee Lee
5d. Re: Raw Feeding Books
From: mwood8402

6a. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
From: Whippstaff
6b. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
From: Sandee Lee
6c. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
From: brutus_buckley
6d. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
From: lmustoe

7a. fish bones
From: Felicia Kost
7b. Re: fish bones
From: magolin0328
7c. Re: fish bones
From: costrowski75
7d. Re: fish bones
From: Yasuko herron

8a. Re: Weak pasturns-Vitamine C??
From: Giselle
8b. Re: Weak pasturns-Vitamine C??
From: Doguefan@aol.com

9a. New Puppy, New to rawfeeding, Help!
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)

10a. Re: Slipper Elm Bark
From: Yasuko herron

11a. Happy to tears, but what about frozen raw?
From: Stephanie Martello
11b. Re: Happy to tears, but what about frozen raw?
From: Sandee Lee

12a. Update :) Re: Cheap meat sources, and an egg question
From: eminemmmfan

Messages
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1a. Question about new adopted cat...
Posted by: "Cindy Marabito" doggirl1@earthlink.net rowdycowgirl50
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:08 am ((PDT))

I live with three senior cats who have been quite a challenge getting
to eat raw. We've been at it for four and a half years. They do eat
100% raw/edible bone/organ, but every time there is a clean plate
day, we'll seem to take two strides back the next day meaning either
they barely touch their food the next morning and then maybe eat only
half that evening. I am bringing a new rescue boy (according to Anita
Frazier's directions) into the house this week and would like to get
him transitioning over to raw. I have a couple of plans, but would
really appreciate your input and any advice and tips you might have.
This means anything and everything. The ideas that work for me will
go on my websites if that's ok. Thanks so much, Cindy

Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: Question about new adopted cat...
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:05 am ((PDT))

Hi, Cindy!
I don't have any suggestions for you for your new rescue, but
maybe you have done better than you realize with your current crew?
"They do eat
> 100% raw/edible bone/organ, but every time there is a clean plate
> day, we'll seem to take two strides back the next day meaning either
> they barely touch their food the next morning and then maybe eat only
> half that evening."
If these were dogs, I would say that had satiated themselves and just
weren't hungry enough to eat, or to eat a full meal the next day.
Self regulating behavior is the cat's meow! ; )
Why would you consider this "two strides back" in raw feeding? I think
you've been pretty dern successful, and aren't giving yourself enough
credit!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I live with three senior cats who have been quite a challenge getting
> to eat raw. We've been at it for four and a half years. <snip>
I am bringing a new rescue boy (according to Anita
> Frazier's directions) into the house this week and would like to get
> him transitioning over to raw. I have a couple of plans, but would
> really appreciate your input and any advice and tips you might have.
> This means anything and everything. The ideas that work for me will
> go on my websites if that's OK. Thanks so much, Cindy
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Canine Nutrition
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:10 am ((PDT))

#### domesticated pets...most of them, not mine... will happily eat
whatever may be given to them. It does not mean they 'need ' it , they just
'like' it. Much like me and ice-cream. ;-))

Offering cooked vegetable scraps is fine on occasion as long as you
understand that there isn't much if any value in it and it should not be a
significant part of the diet. It usually appeases 'you', but these are
dogs, not people, right?

The vegetables are not poisonous.. they just aren't biovailable and
certainly are NOT digestible, unless processed by you. Since Wolves and
wild dogs don't have fingers for blenders or stoves, perhaps nature didn't
mean them to have them.

and so why do some dogs LIKE/LOVE carrots, figs, lettuce.. etc? i used
to give my dog (and still sometimes do) lettuce. he doesn't seem to like
the leaves, so we give the stem parts. but he only eats it sometimes. i
always thought that this has the same effect as the grass he eats in the
yard.. but most of the times, he doesn't vomit his food when he eats his
grass/lettuce. i see the grass in the stool sometimes, but not the
lettuce. other than that, his stool seems fine.

### so give lettuce now & then. No big deal. Just don't place value on
it. Dogs love all sorts of things ..as I said...loving something does not
mean they need it.

They will eat the whole carcass-skin,
> hair and bones included-the extremely acidic stomach environment can
digest
> bones and skin, which bulks up the stool and protects the intestinal
walls
> from sharp objects such as fragments of bone

i thought tha dogs/cats pluck off the feathers, fur, and hair of the
prey? i never seen a wild animal actually eating the fur of the prey...
or maybe i'm just wrong?

#### I don't think a Wolf would be able to skin a rabbit.
Killed...chomp, bite..swallow, gone.

A huge ungulate ...they rip open the stomach and go to town. Some of the
fur would be eaten...some not. It would vary on the kill.

You just haven't seen enough Nature programs is all.. ;-))

Chia & Ricco

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Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: Canine Nutrition
Posted by: "geraldinebutterfield" gbutterflied@comcast.net geraldinebutterfield
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:57 am ((PDT))

This is a great article -- Thanks!!

geraldine

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Chia <chia.m@...> wrote:
>
>
> ### found this in a file I had from a few years ago... typed it
here...I
>
>
>
> Feeding for Optimum Health and Longevity
>
> The canine digestive system anatomy and physiology is that of a
carnivore,
> the most distinct characteristic being the voluminous stomach and
shorter
> intestinal length indicative of a carnivore to aid in rapid
digestion of raw
> meat. ...

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: Prednisone and raw feeding
Posted by: "mwood8402" mwood8402@hotmail.com mwood8402
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:39 am ((PDT))

Hi Rob,

My Sheltie has IBD and we've been doing the raw diet for a couple
months now. He is doing really well, much better than he did on any
kibble/home cooked diet he was ever on. He did have a little relapse
a couple weeks ago, but I think it was actually due to some treats I
was feeding at training class.

Every IBD dog is going to be different. I had great luck starting
out with bone in chicken breast with the skin removed. I fed that
for about a week. Then I started cutting up whole chickens for him,
gradually leaving on more skin. Kai is really really sensative to
any preservatives, so I feed organic, free range, hormone free,
antibiotic chicken that I can find for $1.50-$1.99 a pound. I
recently added some naturally raised beef and he seems to be doing
well on that. The key is to add things slooooooooowly. I waited 3
weeks before adding any organs and I seriously gave him a nickel
sized piece the first day.

I haven't started up with any supplements besides fish oil, but there
are a couple that I'm considering (digestive enzymes and L-
glutamine). At first, I took away all supps and just had him on
plain old chicken. I'm going to add supps as necessary.

Don't forget about the treats you may not be able to use any for a
while. The only way I've been able to use treats with him is to make
my own and use them sparingly. I dehydrate the meat in the oven and
keep the rewards small and training sessions short.

By the way, I'm sure your vet will absolutely hate such an idea and
will tell you that raw diets are dangerous for IBD dogs... Don't
listen.

Feel free to message me about this any time. I'm not an expert, I'm
in the same boat as you. But I've been working on this problem for a
little while now, so I may be able to offer you some tips.

Good luck!
-Melissa

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Bardenett" <rbee29@...> wrote:
Any advice on foregoing the prednisone and just treating this by
> going with a raw diet for the rest of her life?
> Thanks,
> Rob Bardenett

Messages in this topic (11)
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4a. Re: Dog weight loss - recommendations?
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:15 am ((PDT))

On Jul 22, 2007, at 10:23 PM, pelirojita wrote:
> So he is 44 lbs and should probably be more in the range of 35-37, so
> significantly overweight at age 3, with bad knees to show for it.
> Does anyone have an effective feeding routine in terms of content and
> quantity for getting the weight off safely?

I'd say this calls for a thyroid function test. Get a six-panel test,
preferably done by Jean Dodds at Hemopet. She will provide a good
analysis of his levels, far beyond what most vets will do. Her non-
profit status keeps your fees low. Get your vet to draw the blood,
and you can send it off. Instructions are on her website at Hemopet.

Many factors, including inherited ones, vaccine damage, drugs
suppression, and even poor diet, predispose most dogs to
hypothyroidism sooner or later. It is not unusual even in the young
animals these days, and is not by any means a death sentence, since
long-term supplementation is not at all harmful. Everything in the
body depends on thyroid levels, including the health of joints and
connective tissue - for instance, there is a strong tie-in to
cruciate ligament damage, which we see way too often these days also.

So, start there, and then we can tweak his diet. Many overweight dogs
do well on a modified gorge/fast routine, where they are allowed to
eat to satiety one day, and then fed lightly or not at all for a
couple, so this may be something towards which you want to work. Just
cutting portions works, but big meals are more fun:)

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "Boxer Lover" boxer.love@yahoo.com boxer.love
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:19 am ((PDT))

Are there any books you can recommend on raw feeding? I have "Raw Meaty Bones" by Tom Lonsdale, but I would like to read more. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Stephanie

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
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5b. Re: Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:17 am ((PDT))

Boxer Lover <boxer.love@...> wrote:
>
> Are there any books you can recommend on raw feeding? I have "Raw
Meaty Bones" by Tom Lonsdale, but I would like to read more. Any
suggestions would be appreciated.
*****
IMO, no.
IMO almost all of them offer interesting historical perspectives. Some
are mostly amusing, some are primarily annoying and a few are
informative if the material is harvested carefully. None of them are
especially relevant to species appropriate feeding.

IMO.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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5c. Re: Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:55 am ((PDT))

Nope! Haven't seen any yet that feed according to species. Is there
something specific you are looking for?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Boxer Lover" <boxer.love@yahoo.com>

> Are there any books you can recommend on raw feeding? I have "Raw Meaty
Bones" by Tom Lonsdale, but I would like to read more. Any suggestions
would be appreciated.

Messages in this topic (12)
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5d. Re: Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "mwood8402" mwood8402@hotmail.com mwood8402
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:13 pm ((PDT))

I have to agree with Chris on this one. Most of them make you feel
overwhelmed or confused. I mostly relied on this list to get me
started. If you have questions, people here would be glad to help. Or
just browse the archives, there is a ton of info there.

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
> > Are there any books you can recommend on raw feeding?
>None of them are especially relevant to species appropriate feeding.
> Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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6a. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
Posted by: "Whippstaff" whippstaff@heartandsoul.de whippstaff
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:19 am ((PDT))

Hello Lee,

I fed our puppies always three meals a day at that age. I think two meals are not enough! Three worked very good :-)

Greetings from germany,

Yvonne

Hi All
My 9 week old puppy megan is doing really well on raw with no problems
yet thank goodness.My question is this how many meals should she have
per day as with the conventional dog food it is 4 meals per day but she
cant manage this on raw,and could i drop her down to 2 meals per day? i
have been reading your comments everyday and learning so much already
so a big thank you so far any comments/advice would be greatfully
recieved.
Many thanks
Lee

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Messages in this topic (5)
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6b. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:48 am ((PDT))

Lee,

She should be fed at least 3 if not 4 times a day. What do you mean she
can't manage this on raw????

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "lmustoe" <lmustoe@yahoo.co.uk>
My 9 week old puppy megan is doing really well on raw with no problems
yet thank goodness.My question is this how many meals should she have
per day as with the conventional dog food it is 4 meals per day but she
cant manage this on raw,and could i drop her down to 2 meals per day? i
have been reading your comments everyday and learning so much already
so a big thank you so far any comments/advice would be greatfully
recieved.

Messages in this topic (5)
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6c. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT))

I have a pup who just turned 5 months old; I was planning on feeding
her 3 meals a day until she is 6 months old, but at 4 months, she
decided she no longer wanted "lunch." So she is on 2 meals a day until
she turns a year old (at least that's the plan), then I will switch her
to 1 meal a day. At 9 weeks, I would definitely do 3 meals a day.

-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (5)
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6d. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
Posted by: "lmustoe" lmustoe@yahoo.co.uk lmustoe
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:14 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Whippstaff" <whippstaff@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Yvonne,
thank you for your advice i shall do 3 meals per day from now on.
Can i ask you another question how much and what meat did you feed your
puppy.
Again many thanks for your reply.
Kindest regards
Lee
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. fish bones
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:20 am ((PDT))

Are whole thawd fish safe, what about the sharp bones? Would a whole fish count for the organ meat.Thanks for any advice Saphiradane

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: fish bones
Posted by: "magolin0328" maggie.taylor@artlover.com magolin0328
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:05 am ((PDT))

Last week Diesel ate a few salmon steaks that had bones in them. No
ill-effects so far!

Maggie
Diesel, SDIT

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>
> Are whole thawd fish safe, what about the sharp bones? Would a whole
fish count for the organ meat.Thanks for any advice Saphiradane

Messages in this topic (4)
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7c. Re: fish bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:19 am ((PDT))

Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>
> Are whole thawd fish safe, what about the sharp bones? Would a whole
fish count for the organ meat.Thanks for any advice
*****
Generally whole fish are safe; what would make them not safe is not
that they are whole fish but that the specific fish might have high
levels of accumulated toxins or parasites. Whole fish counts as whole
prey, which would of course include organs as well as edible bone and
plenty of meat.

All things being equal, whole is the best way to feed any fish.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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7d. Re: fish bones
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT))

>Are whole thawd fish safe, what about the sharp bones?

Hi.Whole Fish to feed is safe but I avoid Tuna (mercury) and Trout and Salmon from Pacific North west (salmon Poisoning).

Some says if you freeze fish deeply like 7 days or more,it kills parasite but,I tend to avoid fish I wrote above.

I have fed Haddock,Cod,Perch,Snappers,Squid,Flounder,Whiting,MahiMahi,Shrimp,Scallop so far.

My dog hated catfish so not feeding it now and Tilapia,she ate it but got so bad reaction;green gooey poo after 2 hours from eating the fish and got diarrhea so bad and was so miserable.so,I am not feeding tilapia although I myself love Tilapia.

For canned,I fed canned crab,canned clam,canned sardine,canned mackerral,canned salmon.

If I wanted to feed Salmon,I feed Canned salmon and that can has fish with bone too so,if you were still not sure about giving fish bone to dog,you can give this canned fish because bone in the can is very soft.

If you cook fish with bone,bone gets harden just like other bone in other meat,so,don't feed cooked bone.

Uncooked bone like whole fish bone before cooking is ok to feed and it really not sharp like you think and,they can crunch down.

>Would a whole fish count for the organ meat.

If you feed whole fish,it is Raw Meaty Bone category i suppose.If you feed Fillet,then without bone so muscle meat category but it really does not matter too much whether it belong to because it balance over the time.Get what you can get.

I tend to buy whatever looks good and on sale and,I stock up in freezer.

Oh,I have fed Herring in salt water packed one thinking it is in water and some salt added,and fed it to my dog after some washing under the water.It was whole herring just without head.Well,it turned out pretty bad too.She drank quite lot of water and went to pee every 45 mins or so.Very bad. she did not have poo problem with that but she just drank reall really big amount of water.It must have been soooo salty.

So,I stopped buying the same thing. So,whatever you buy,watch out the package for small writing and if you were not sure about if it agree with your dog/handle and new thing to give,buy small quantity first.

I usually get half pound of anything new to my dog and see if my dog handle ok or not.
Since it is a fish and there are tonz of different kinds of fish out there and i do not worry if the dog turns the nose up and,I just don't feed the same.

I would try different way of getting my dog to eat the meat if it was like beef or something else but since fish,I am not too worry about it.

Good luck!

yassy

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Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: Weak pasturns-Vitamine C??
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:51 am ((PDT))

Hi, Chelsea!
I wouldn't add supps to your pups diet, this can put
everything out of whack very fast. Dogs make their own vitamin C, you
shouldn't need to add any. Vitamin C is water soluble, meaning if it
isn't needed, your pup will just pee it out.

First, look at her weight. Even for giant breeds, bigger/heavier is
not necessarily better. Lean pups grow at a more balanced rate and
develop fewer hip, elbow, heart, and other problems. And since giant
breeds continue to grow and mature well into their 3rd year, allowing
weight gain before structural integrity is achieved is not a good plan.

Cutting back a bit on total amounts fed to the pup for awhile, until
the pup's skeletal growth catches up with her weight gain is the best
way to go. I wouldn't restrict meat, organ or bone, or change the
ratios (80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organ), just rein in the amount fed
slightly, while increasing her activity somewhat.

Increasing the variety of protein and body part is always a great
idea. Edible bone should be about 10% of the diet. Bone has lots of
the minerals and nutrients pups need to grow well, make sure you are
including enough. Don't forget the organs! Again, 10% of the diet
should be organs. Half of that should be liver, the other 5% should
include as much variety as you can source; Kidney, spleen,
sweetbreads, tripe, etc.

Then, look at the surface she walks on. Is she on cement or a hard
surface a lot of the time? Are her nails too long? This can cause foot
development problems also. Is she exercised on a hard surface, like
asphalt? Exercise itself, if done to excess in a large breed puppy can
cause problems. Short frequent walks or bursts of play on natural
surfaces like grass is best for optimal development. Slack muscles and
ligaments caused by lack of frequent exercise can contribute to
problems in physical development, too. Any exercise program should
start slow and increase gradually, especially with dogs, as they can't
tell us when they hurt.

Pups do go through "the puppy uglies", often or less so during their
growth period, depending on the breed and bloodlines. Look at your
pups parents, grandparents, older full and part sibs for pointers to
how this pup's growth pattern will be. Talk to the breeder of the
pup's relatives to get some back history on this pup's bloodline's
growth patterns.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> > Hello everyone. I have an 8 month old Dogue de Bordeaux who I has
> been fed raw her whole life. She seems to be growing up great on it,
> but just in the last few weeks she looks a little weak on her pasterns
> and her once very big tight feet, also look a little splayed. This
> could be me being very picky about a very pretty pup, but I was told
> that this could happen if she is lacking Vitamin C. I imagine she
> could also just be going through a growth spurt seeing that her butt is
> about 5 inches higher then her front right now! ;)
<snip>
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!? Thanks in advance,
> these groups are great!
> >
> > Chelsea
> > www.bruinbordeaux.com

Messages in this topic (4)
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8b. Re: Weak pasturns-Vitamine C??
Posted by: "Doguefan@aol.com" Doguefan@aol.com knoxkennels
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:03 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Giselle,as always youare a wealth of info.? I pay close attention to the care and growth of these big guys, so I have covered most of the things you mentioned regarding exercise, weight, and growth of this line.? She is actually not looking bad at all, as a matter of fact I am really happy with the way she is growing.? I do keep these big kids lean generally, especially puppies.? I thinkI may be feeding her a little too much, and yes, I have just started feeding more organs.? I bought a great organ/tripeblend, that they love.? This puppy, in particular, it is easy to tell when she gets a little down on her pasturns because she (and these lines are known for it) has very upright, strong pasturns and nice tight feet.? I was just wondering about the Viatamine C thing mostly, I have heard from several peopel that they supplement with Vitamine C with Rosehips.? Thanks again Giselle!

Chelsea

-----Original Message-----
From: Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 9:51 am
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Weak pasturns-Vitamine C??

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Messages in this topic (4)
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9a. New Puppy, New to rawfeeding, Help!
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:36 am ((PDT))

I give my five-pound dog pork ribs two at a time (she strips them and
nibbles the ends of the ribs), beef ribs - one big one at a time (she
strips and leaves the bone), lamb, and all the birdies (quail, turkey,
game hen, duck, chicken, ostrich - ostrich only once or twice a year,
when I go to a special meat vendor). I give her pieces that are bigger
than her head, to prevent gulping, and I stay in the room with her, to
listen for sounds of distress (choking).

Chicken bones are the only ones she consumes in full. I have also given
her venison, when I could get it, and XKALIBER (a coarsely ground mix
containing tripe, from greentrip.com). She went nuts for the tripey mix!
You can shop the sales when you get a chance, and store up for when you
are too busy to shop the sales.

Feeding a small dog raw means you can spend a bit more buying whatever
is on sale for the humans, without having to strive to keep total costs
under $1 per pound, which is a goal of a lot of the rawfeeders on this
list feeding bigger breeds. It also means you can store the dog's food
in your own freezer without getting a special freezer just for the dogs'
food, which is another thing that a lot of people do on this list. I
give them SUCH credit!

Good luck rawfeeding your dog! IMO you will actually end up saving money
in the long run, on greatly reduced vets bills. Also your dog will look
great and feel great, and you will get tons of compliments.

Carolyn J. Garnaas and Molly, Telepathic Toy Poodle

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Messages in this topic (8)
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10a. Re: Slipper Elm Bark
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:06 pm ((PDT))

>Well, to me, the purpose of dosing with SEBP is to line the entire digestive system with >the mucosy, slippery coating, to soothe and lessen the irritation. Boiling it with water, or >anything else to eliminate that effect would be counterproductive to the usefulness of
>it, I think.

Hi,Gisell.Thank you for the explanation.I think your idea and Ginny's idea sounds good to me if the water adding to boil makes less effective.and if I do your way then,better to get ground chicken or some less fatty meat to make meatball then.

>Heart is generally very lean, unless you get the butcher to leave the fat cap on.

The heart of Lamb she had is having some fat on it but not too much.It may be why she seems no problems too.Next time,other meat of Lamb part like tongue or boneless meat,I try combo meal again and try increase the lamb part meat to see how she does.So far,only heart,she can be fed whole heart meal and no need to be with combo.

>Too, harder bones, like buffalo ribs, may cause tooth wear if not tooth breakage if you feed >them very frequently.

Well,I have fed 3 times now and so,I try feeding something else. Like you said,I watch for wear too.

Tonight is fish day so,I don't feed buffalo ribs:-P

Thank you for your healp

yassy

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Messages in this topic (10)
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11a. Happy to tears, but what about frozen raw?
Posted by: "Stephanie Martello" einahpets13@yahoo.com einahpets13
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:06 pm ((PDT))

I want to start out and say a BIG Thank you to whoe ever started
this group! Being a dog owner for my entire life and feeding
that "other stuff" I was apprehensive (scared even) about feeding my
baby raw meat. My story begins with a Great Dane. Her name is Lucy
and she is the absolute love of my life. I waited for 5 years and
countless litters to find her and she is trully made for me.
Lucy is a big girl, 33" at the shoulder but only weighing in at 90
lbs. When she was just under a year we began to have serious health
concerns beginning with severe pancreatitis and panosteitis. Then
the loose stool started and has pretty much continued with no
clinical diagnosis to explain it. I have conducted every test there
is known and turned down surgical biopsys and other invasive
procedures. I began to do my own research and found this group.
Where I reside in Wisconsin there are no family owned butchers that
will supply the necessary prey for me to feed her, so we have
started feeding a frozen raw and I am happy to report for the first
time in over a year we had solid stool!! No one can understand why
I am so excited about this, but I believe that you, my fellow group
members will. I do not like to poke my dog with needles, or put her
under the knife when all I really needed to do was treat her like
the dog that she is and feed her what her body really wants, not all
that grain and filler. I will keep everyone updated on her progress
and hope that she starts to put some meat on her bones.
I do have a question, is there a benefit to remaining on a
prepackaged frozen or is it better overall to feed whole parts?
Thank you all again,
Love and Leans from Lucy and Stephanie

Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: Happy to tears, but what about frozen raw?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:32 pm ((PDT))

Hi Stephanie,

Good for you seeking a better diet for this girl and we definitely do
understand being excited over poop!! :))

There really are not many pros to feeding a prepackaged frozen food. Much
better to offer nice whole pieces and parts that not only satisfy
nutritionally and keep the gums and teeth healthy, but also is mentally
satisfying. Plus if you are trying to put weight on, you are going to need
more meat than mixes generally contain, and you don't want her food "watered
down" by unnecessary ingredients that are so often part of the frozen foods.

You don't necessarily need a butcher....many of us merely watch for sales in
our local markets, etc. It's pretty easy to find whole chickens, turkeys
and fish and a variety of pork, lamb and beef parts. You might want to look
back at this recent message which has a ton of other ideas for sourcing your
food for her....
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/136992

It doesn't sound like a cause for the pancreatitis was ever determined.
Just wondering if you have tried a good digestive or pancreatic enzyme?
That might be something she could benefit from. We have talked about
feeding dogs with pancreatitis often in the past. I've got a few messages I
could direct you to if you are interested.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

Messages in this topic (2)
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12a. Update :) Re: Cheap meat sources, and an egg question
Posted by: "eminemmmfan" hd_sheena@hotmail.com eminemmmfan
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:07 pm ((PDT))

We hit some very hard times, as you all know, and were carefully
considering putting the dogs back on kibble. We invested our last bit
of dog money carefully into some inexpensive chicken that we split
into "human" meals and "Dog" meals, and that's been going well, mixed
with eggs, a bit of extra bone occasionally, and some organ. Today, I
got two LARGE boxes of scraps and a HUGE garbage bag full!!! I'm
thrilled as this should get us through these rough times. Our
neighbours are great!!!!
Hopeful once again,
Courtenay

Messages in this topic (17)
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