Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 11834

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Question about new adopted cat...
From: Cindy Marabito
1b. Re: Question about new adopted cat...
From: Giselle

2a. Re: Canine Nutrition
From: Chia
2b. Re: Canine Nutrition
From: geraldinebutterfield

3a. Re: Prednisone and raw feeding
From: mwood8402

4a. Re: Dog weight loss - recommendations?
From: ginny wilken

5a. Raw Feeding Books
From: Boxer Lover
5b. Re: Raw Feeding Books
From: costrowski75
5c. Re: Raw Feeding Books
From: Sandee Lee
5d. Re: Raw Feeding Books
From: mwood8402

6a. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
From: Whippstaff
6b. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
From: Sandee Lee
6c. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
From: brutus_buckley
6d. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
From: lmustoe

7a. fish bones
From: Felicia Kost
7b. Re: fish bones
From: magolin0328
7c. Re: fish bones
From: costrowski75
7d. Re: fish bones
From: Yasuko herron

8a. Re: Weak pasturns-Vitamine C??
From: Giselle
8b. Re: Weak pasturns-Vitamine C??
From: Doguefan@aol.com

9a. New Puppy, New to rawfeeding, Help!
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)

10a. Re: Slipper Elm Bark
From: Yasuko herron

11a. Happy to tears, but what about frozen raw?
From: Stephanie Martello
11b. Re: Happy to tears, but what about frozen raw?
From: Sandee Lee

12a. Update :) Re: Cheap meat sources, and an egg question
From: eminemmmfan

Messages
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1a. Question about new adopted cat...
Posted by: "Cindy Marabito" doggirl1@earthlink.net rowdycowgirl50
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:08 am ((PDT))

I live with three senior cats who have been quite a challenge getting
to eat raw. We've been at it for four and a half years. They do eat
100% raw/edible bone/organ, but every time there is a clean plate
day, we'll seem to take two strides back the next day meaning either
they barely touch their food the next morning and then maybe eat only
half that evening. I am bringing a new rescue boy (according to Anita
Frazier's directions) into the house this week and would like to get
him transitioning over to raw. I have a couple of plans, but would
really appreciate your input and any advice and tips you might have.
This means anything and everything. The ideas that work for me will
go on my websites if that's ok. Thanks so much, Cindy

Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: Question about new adopted cat...
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:05 am ((PDT))

Hi, Cindy!
I don't have any suggestions for you for your new rescue, but
maybe you have done better than you realize with your current crew?
"They do eat
> 100% raw/edible bone/organ, but every time there is a clean plate
> day, we'll seem to take two strides back the next day meaning either
> they barely touch their food the next morning and then maybe eat only
> half that evening."
If these were dogs, I would say that had satiated themselves and just
weren't hungry enough to eat, or to eat a full meal the next day.
Self regulating behavior is the cat's meow! ; )
Why would you consider this "two strides back" in raw feeding? I think
you've been pretty dern successful, and aren't giving yourself enough
credit!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I live with three senior cats who have been quite a challenge getting
> to eat raw. We've been at it for four and a half years. <snip>
I am bringing a new rescue boy (according to Anita
> Frazier's directions) into the house this week and would like to get
> him transitioning over to raw. I have a couple of plans, but would
> really appreciate your input and any advice and tips you might have.
> This means anything and everything. The ideas that work for me will
> go on my websites if that's OK. Thanks so much, Cindy
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Canine Nutrition
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:10 am ((PDT))

I thought dogs can eat somewhat of vegetables and fruits?(most of the
times meat/bones, but sometimes some greens?) cooking vegetables may
make it easier for them to digest it, i thought... so is all veggies and
fruits to be avoided? surely they can't all be poisonous to dogs and
cats.

#### domesticated pets...most of them, not mine... will happily eat
whatever may be given to them. It does not mean they 'need ' it , they just
'like' it. Much like me and ice-cream. ;-))

Offering cooked vegetable scraps is fine on occasion as long as you
understand that there isn't much if any value in it and it should not be a
significant part of the diet. It usually appeases 'you', but these are
dogs, not people, right?

The vegetables are not poisonous.. they just aren't biovailable and
certainly are NOT digestible, unless processed by you. Since Wolves and
wild dogs don't have fingers for blenders or stoves, perhaps nature didn't
mean them to have them.

and so why do some dogs LIKE/LOVE carrots, figs, lettuce.. etc? i used
to give my dog (and still sometimes do) lettuce. he doesn't seem to like
the leaves, so we give the stem parts. but he only eats it sometimes. i
always thought that this has the same effect as the grass he eats in the
yard.. but most of the times, he doesn't vomit his food when he eats his
grass/lettuce. i see the grass in the stool sometimes, but not the
lettuce. other than that, his stool seems fine.

### so give lettuce now & then. No big deal. Just don't place value on
it. Dogs love all sorts of things ..as I said...loving something does not
mean they need it.

They will eat the whole carcass-skin,
> hair and bones included-the extremely acidic stomach environment can
digest
> bones and skin, which bulks up the stool and protects the intestinal
walls
> from sharp objects such as fragments of bone

i thought tha dogs/cats pluck off the feathers, fur, and hair of the
prey? i never seen a wild animal actually eating the fur of the prey...
or maybe i'm just wrong?

#### I don't think a Wolf would be able to skin a rabbit.
Killed...chomp, bite..swallow, gone.

A huge ungulate ...they rip open the stomach and go to town. Some of the
fur would be eaten...some not. It would vary on the kill.

You just haven't seen enough Nature programs is all.. ;-))

Chia & Ricco

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Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: Canine Nutrition
Posted by: "geraldinebutterfield" gbutterflied@comcast.net geraldinebutterfield
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:57 am ((PDT))

This is a great article -- Thanks!!

geraldine

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Chia <chia.m@...> wrote:
>
>
> ### found this in a file I had from a few years ago... typed it
here...I
>
>
>
> Feeding for Optimum Health and Longevity
>
> The canine digestive system anatomy and physiology is that of a
carnivore,
> the most distinct characteristic being the voluminous stomach and
shorter
> intestinal length indicative of a carnivore to aid in rapid
digestion of raw
> meat. ...

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: Prednisone and raw feeding
Posted by: "mwood8402" mwood8402@hotmail.com mwood8402
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:39 am ((PDT))

Hi Rob,

My Sheltie has IBD and we've been doing the raw diet for a couple
months now. He is doing really well, much better than he did on any
kibble/home cooked diet he was ever on. He did have a little relapse
a couple weeks ago, but I think it was actually due to some treats I
was feeding at training class.

Every IBD dog is going to be different. I had great luck starting
out with bone in chicken breast with the skin removed. I fed that
for about a week. Then I started cutting up whole chickens for him,
gradually leaving on more skin. Kai is really really sensative to
any preservatives, so I feed organic, free range, hormone free,
antibiotic chicken that I can find for $1.50-$1.99 a pound. I
recently added some naturally raised beef and he seems to be doing
well on that. The key is to add things slooooooooowly. I waited 3
weeks before adding any organs and I seriously gave him a nickel
sized piece the first day.

I haven't started up with any supplements besides fish oil, but there
are a couple that I'm considering (digestive enzymes and L-
glutamine). At first, I took away all supps and just had him on
plain old chicken. I'm going to add supps as necessary.

Don't forget about the treats you may not be able to use any for a
while. The only way I've been able to use treats with him is to make
my own and use them sparingly. I dehydrate the meat in the oven and
keep the rewards small and training sessions short.

By the way, I'm sure your vet will absolutely hate such an idea and
will tell you that raw diets are dangerous for IBD dogs... Don't
listen.

Feel free to message me about this any time. I'm not an expert, I'm
in the same boat as you. But I've been working on this problem for a
little while now, so I may be able to offer you some tips.

Good luck!
-Melissa

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Bardenett" <rbee29@...> wrote:
Any advice on foregoing the prednisone and just treating this by
> going with a raw diet for the rest of her life?
> Thanks,
> Rob Bardenett

Messages in this topic (11)
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4a. Re: Dog weight loss - recommendations?
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:15 am ((PDT))

On Jul 22, 2007, at 10:23 PM, pelirojita wrote:
> So he is 44 lbs and should probably be more in the range of 35-37, so
> significantly overweight at age 3, with bad knees to show for it.
> Does anyone have an effective feeding routine in terms of content and
> quantity for getting the weight off safely?

I'd say this calls for a thyroid function test. Get a six-panel test,
preferably done by Jean Dodds at Hemopet. She will provide a good
analysis of his levels, far beyond what most vets will do. Her non-
profit status keeps your fees low. Get your vet to draw the blood,
and you can send it off. Instructions are on her website at Hemopet.

Many factors, including inherited ones, vaccine damage, drugs
suppression, and even poor diet, predispose most dogs to
hypothyroidism sooner or later. It is not unusual even in the young
animals these days, and is not by any means a death sentence, since
long-term supplementation is not at all harmful. Everything in the
body depends on thyroid levels, including the health of joints and
connective tissue - for instance, there is a strong tie-in to
cruciate ligament damage, which we see way too often these days also.

So, start there, and then we can tweak his diet. Many overweight dogs
do well on a modified gorge/fast routine, where they are allowed to
eat to satiety one day, and then fed lightly or not at all for a
couple, so this may be something towards which you want to work. Just
cutting portions works, but big meals are more fun:)

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "Boxer Lover" boxer.love@yahoo.com boxer.love
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:19 am ((PDT))

Are there any books you can recommend on raw feeding? I have "Raw Meaty Bones" by Tom Lonsdale, but I would like to read more. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Stephanie

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (12)
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5b. Re: Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:17 am ((PDT))

Boxer Lover <boxer.love@...> wrote:
>
> Are there any books you can recommend on raw feeding? I have "Raw
Meaty Bones" by Tom Lonsdale, but I would like to read more. Any
suggestions would be appreciated.
*****
IMO, no.
IMO almost all of them offer interesting historical perspectives. Some
are mostly amusing, some are primarily annoying and a few are
informative if the material is harvested carefully. None of them are
especially relevant to species appropriate feeding.

IMO.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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5c. Re: Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:55 am ((PDT))

Nope! Haven't seen any yet that feed according to species. Is there
something specific you are looking for?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Boxer Lover" <boxer.love@yahoo.com>

> Are there any books you can recommend on raw feeding? I have "Raw Meaty
Bones" by Tom Lonsdale, but I would like to read more. Any suggestions
would be appreciated.

Messages in this topic (12)
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5d. Re: Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "mwood8402" mwood8402@hotmail.com mwood8402
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:13 pm ((PDT))

I have to agree with Chris on this one. Most of them make you feel
overwhelmed or confused. I mostly relied on this list to get me
started. If you have questions, people here would be glad to help. Or
just browse the archives, there is a ton of info there.

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
> > Are there any books you can recommend on raw feeding?
>None of them are especially relevant to species appropriate feeding.
> Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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6a. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
Posted by: "Whippstaff" whippstaff@heartandsoul.de whippstaff
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:19 am ((PDT))

Hello Lee,

I fed our puppies always three meals a day at that age. I think two meals are not enough! Three worked very good :-)

Greetings from germany,

Yvonne

Hi All
My 9 week old puppy megan is doing really well on raw with no problems
yet thank goodness.My question is this how many meals should she have
per day as with the conventional dog food it is 4 meals per day but she
cant manage this on raw,and could i drop her down to 2 meals per day? i
have been reading your comments everyday and learning so much already
so a big thank you so far any comments/advice would be greatfully
recieved.
Many thanks
Lee

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6b. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:48 am ((PDT))

Lee,

She should be fed at least 3 if not 4 times a day. What do you mean she
can't manage this on raw????

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "lmustoe" <lmustoe@yahoo.co.uk>
My 9 week old puppy megan is doing really well on raw with no problems
yet thank goodness.My question is this how many meals should she have
per day as with the conventional dog food it is 4 meals per day but she
cant manage this on raw,and could i drop her down to 2 meals per day? i
have been reading your comments everyday and learning so much already
so a big thank you so far any comments/advice would be greatfully
recieved.

Messages in this topic (5)
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6c. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT))

I have a pup who just turned 5 months old; I was planning on feeding
her 3 meals a day until she is 6 months old, but at 4 months, she
decided she no longer wanted "lunch." So she is on 2 meals a day until
she turns a year old (at least that's the plan), then I will switch her
to 1 meal a day. At 9 weeks, I would definitely do 3 meals a day.

-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (5)
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6d. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
Posted by: "lmustoe" lmustoe@yahoo.co.uk lmustoe
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:14 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Whippstaff" <whippstaff@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Yvonne,
thank you for your advice i shall do 3 meals per day from now on.
Can i ask you another question how much and what meat did you feed your
puppy.
Again many thanks for your reply.
Kindest regards
Lee
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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7a. fish bones
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:20 am ((PDT))

Are whole thawd fish safe, what about the sharp bones? Would a whole fish count for the organ meat.Thanks for any advice Saphiradane

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7b. Re: fish bones
Posted by: "magolin0328" maggie.taylor@artlover.com magolin0328
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:05 am ((PDT))

Last week Diesel ate a few salmon steaks that had bones in them. No
ill-effects so far!

Maggie
Diesel, SDIT

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>
> Are whole thawd fish safe, what about the sharp bones? Would a whole
fish count for the organ meat.Thanks for any advice Saphiradane

Messages in this topic (4)
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7c. Re: fish bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:19 am ((PDT))

Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>
> Are whole thawd fish safe, what about the sharp bones? Would a whole
fish count for the organ meat.Thanks for any advice
*****
Generally whole fish are safe; what would make them not safe is not
that they are whole fish but that the specific fish might have high
levels of accumulated toxins or parasites. Whole fish counts as whole
prey, which would of course include organs as well as edible bone and
plenty of meat.

All things being equal, whole is the best way to feed any fish.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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7d. Re: fish bones
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:04 pm ((PDT))

>Are whole thawd fish safe, what about the sharp bones?

Hi.Whole Fish to feed is safe but I avoid Tuna (mercury) and Trout and Salmon from Pacific North west (salmon Poisoning).

Some says if you freeze fish deeply like 7 days or more,it kills parasite but,I tend to avoid fish I wrote above.

I have fed Haddock,Cod,Perch,Snappers,Squid,Flounder,Whiting,MahiMahi,Shrimp,Scallop so far.

My dog hated catfish so not feeding it now and Tilapia,she ate it but got so bad reaction;green gooey poo after 2 hours from eating the fish and got diarrhea so bad and was so miserable.so,I am not feeding tilapia although I myself love Tilapia.

For canned,I fed canned crab,canned clam,canned sardine,canned mackerral,canned salmon.

If I wanted to feed Salmon,I feed Canned salmon and that can has fish with bone too so,if you were still not sure about giving fish bone to dog,you can give this canned fish because bone in the can is very soft.

If you cook fish with bone,bone gets harden just like other bone in other meat,so,don't feed cooked bone.

Uncooked bone like whole fish bone before cooking is ok to feed and it really not sharp like you think and,they can crunch down.

>Would a whole fish count for the organ meat.

If you feed whole fish,it is Raw Meaty Bone category i suppose.If you feed Fillet,then without bone so muscle meat category but it really does not matter too much whether it belong to because it balance over the time.Get what you can get.

I tend to buy whatever looks good and on sale and,I stock up in freezer.

Oh,I have fed Herring in salt water packed one thinking it is in water and some salt added,and fed it to my dog after some washing under the water.It was whole herring just without head.Well,it turned out pretty bad too.She drank quite lot of water and went to pee every 45 mins or so.Very bad. she did not have poo problem with that but she just drank reall really big amount of water.It must have been soooo salty.

So,I stopped buying the same thing. So,whatever you buy,watch out the package for small writing and if you were not sure about if it agree with your dog/handle and new thing to give,buy small quantity first.

I usually get half pound of anything new to my dog and see if my dog handle ok or not.
Since it is a fish and there are tonz of different kinds of fish out there and i do not worry if the dog turns the nose up and,I just don't feed the same.

I would try different way of getting my dog to eat the meat if it was like beef or something else but since fish,I am not too worry about it.

Good luck!

yassy

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8a. Re: Weak pasturns-Vitamine C??
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:51 am ((PDT))

Hi, Chelsea!
I wouldn't add supps to your pups diet, this can put
everything out of whack very fast. Dogs make their own vitamin C, you
shouldn't need to add any. Vitamin C is water soluble, meaning if it
isn't needed, your pup will just pee it out.

First, look at her weight. Even for giant breeds, bigger/heavier is
not necessarily better. Lean pups grow at a more balanced rate and
develop fewer hip, elbow, heart, and other problems. And since giant
breeds continue to grow and mature well into their 3rd year, allowing
weight gain before structural integrity is achieved is not a good plan.

Cutting back a bit on total amounts fed to the pup for awhile, until
the pup's skeletal growth catches up with her weight gain is the best
way to go. I wouldn't restrict meat, organ or bone, or change the
ratios (80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organ), just rein in the amount fed
slightly, while increasing her activity somewhat.

Increasing the variety of protein and body part is always a great
idea. Edible bone should be about 10% of the diet. Bone has lots of
the minerals and nutrients pups need to grow well, make sure you are
including enough. Don't forget the organs! Again, 10% of the diet
should be organs. Half of that should be liver, the other 5% should
include as much variety as you can source; Kidney, spleen,
sweetbreads, tripe, etc.

Then, look at the surface she walks on. Is she on cement or a hard
surface a lot of the time? Are her nails too long? This can cause foot
development problems also. Is she exercised on a hard surface, like
asphalt? Exercise itself, if done to excess in a large breed puppy can
cause problems. Short frequent walks or bursts of play on natural
surfaces like grass is best for optimal development. Slack muscles and
ligaments caused by lack of frequent exercise can contribute to
problems in physical development, too. Any exercise program should
start slow and increase gradually, especially with dogs, as they can't
tell us when they hurt.

Pups do go through "the puppy uglies", often or less so during their
growth period, depending on the breed and bloodlines. Look at your
pups parents, grandparents, older full and part sibs for pointers to
how this pup's growth pattern will be. Talk to the breeder of the
pup's relatives to get some back history on this pup's bloodline's
growth patterns.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> > Hello everyone. I have an 8 month old Dogue de Bordeaux who I has
> been fed raw her whole life. She seems to be growing up great on it,
> but just in the last few weeks she looks a little weak on her pasterns
> and her once very big tight feet, also look a little splayed. This
> could be me being very picky about a very pretty pup, but I was told
> that this could happen if she is lacking Vitamin C. I imagine she
> could also just be going through a growth spurt seeing that her butt is
> about 5 inches higher then her front right now! ;)
<snip>
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!? Thanks in advance,
> these groups are great!
> >
> > Chelsea
> > www.bruinbordeaux.com

Messages in this topic (4)
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8b. Re: Weak pasturns-Vitamine C??
Posted by: "Doguefan@aol.com" Doguefan@aol.com knoxkennels
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:03 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Giselle,as always youare a wealth of info.? I pay close attention to the care and growth of these big guys, so I have covered most of the things you mentioned regarding exercise, weight, and growth of this line.? She is actually not looking bad at all, as a matter of fact I am really happy with the way she is growing.? I do keep these big kids lean generally, especially puppies.? I thinkI may be feeding her a little too much, and yes, I have just started feeding more organs.? I bought a great organ/tripeblend, that they love.? This puppy, in particular, it is easy to tell when she gets a little down on her pasturns because she (and these lines are known for it) has very upright, strong pasturns and nice tight feet.? I was just wondering about the Viatamine C thing mostly, I have heard from several peopel that they supplement with Vitamine C with Rosehips.? Thanks again Giselle!

Chelsea

-----Original Message-----
From: Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 9:51 am
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Weak pasturns-Vitamine C??

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9a. New Puppy, New to rawfeeding, Help!
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:36 am ((PDT))

I give my five-pound dog pork ribs two at a time (she strips them and
nibbles the ends of the ribs), beef ribs - one big one at a time (she
strips and leaves the bone), lamb, and all the birdies (quail, turkey,
game hen, duck, chicken, ostrich - ostrich only once or twice a year,
when I go to a special meat vendor). I give her pieces that are bigger
than her head, to prevent gulping, and I stay in the room with her, to
listen for sounds of distress (choking).

Chicken bones are the only ones she consumes in full. I have also given
her venison, when I could get it, and XKALIBER (a coarsely ground mix
containing tripe, from greentrip.com). She went nuts for the tripey mix!
You can shop the sales when you get a chance, and store up for when you
are too busy to shop the sales.

Feeding a small dog raw means you can spend a bit more buying whatever
is on sale for the humans, without having to strive to keep total costs
under $1 per pound, which is a goal of a lot of the rawfeeders on this
list feeding bigger breeds. It also means you can store the dog's food
in your own freezer without getting a special freezer just for the dogs'
food, which is another thing that a lot of people do on this list. I
give them SUCH credit!

Good luck rawfeeding your dog! IMO you will actually end up saving money
in the long run, on greatly reduced vets bills. Also your dog will look
great and feel great, and you will get tons of compliments.

Carolyn J. Garnaas and Molly, Telepathic Toy Poodle

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Messages in this topic (8)
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10a. Re: Slipper Elm Bark
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:06 pm ((PDT))

>Well, to me, the purpose of dosing with SEBP is to line the entire digestive system with >the mucosy, slippery coating, to soothe and lessen the irritation. Boiling it with water, or >anything else to eliminate that effect would be counterproductive to the usefulness of
>it, I think.

Hi,Gisell.Thank you for the explanation.I think your idea and Ginny's idea sounds good to me if the water adding to boil makes less effective.and if I do your way then,better to get ground chicken or some less fatty meat to make meatball then.

>Heart is generally very lean, unless you get the butcher to leave the fat cap on.

The heart of Lamb she had is having some fat on it but not too much.It may be why she seems no problems too.Next time,other meat of Lamb part like tongue or boneless meat,I try combo meal again and try increase the lamb part meat to see how she does.So far,only heart,she can be fed whole heart meal and no need to be with combo.

>Too, harder bones, like buffalo ribs, may cause tooth wear if not tooth breakage if you feed >them very frequently.

Well,I have fed 3 times now and so,I try feeding something else. Like you said,I watch for wear too.

Tonight is fish day so,I don't feed buffalo ribs:-P

Thank you for your healp

yassy

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Messages in this topic (10)
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11a. Happy to tears, but what about frozen raw?
Posted by: "Stephanie Martello" einahpets13@yahoo.com einahpets13
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:06 pm ((PDT))

I want to start out and say a BIG Thank you to whoe ever started
this group! Being a dog owner for my entire life and feeding
that "other stuff" I was apprehensive (scared even) about feeding my
baby raw meat. My story begins with a Great Dane. Her name is Lucy
and she is the absolute love of my life. I waited for 5 years and
countless litters to find her and she is trully made for me.
Lucy is a big girl, 33" at the shoulder but only weighing in at 90
lbs. When she was just under a year we began to have serious health
concerns beginning with severe pancreatitis and panosteitis. Then
the loose stool started and has pretty much continued with no
clinical diagnosis to explain it. I have conducted every test there
is known and turned down surgical biopsys and other invasive
procedures. I began to do my own research and found this group.
Where I reside in Wisconsin there are no family owned butchers that
will supply the necessary prey for me to feed her, so we have
started feeding a frozen raw and I am happy to report for the first
time in over a year we had solid stool!! No one can understand why
I am so excited about this, but I believe that you, my fellow group
members will. I do not like to poke my dog with needles, or put her
under the knife when all I really needed to do was treat her like
the dog that she is and feed her what her body really wants, not all
that grain and filler. I will keep everyone updated on her progress
and hope that she starts to put some meat on her bones.
I do have a question, is there a benefit to remaining on a
prepackaged frozen or is it better overall to feed whole parts?
Thank you all again,
Love and Leans from Lucy and Stephanie

Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: Happy to tears, but what about frozen raw?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:32 pm ((PDT))

Hi Stephanie,

Good for you seeking a better diet for this girl and we definitely do
understand being excited over poop!! :))

There really are not many pros to feeding a prepackaged frozen food. Much
better to offer nice whole pieces and parts that not only satisfy
nutritionally and keep the gums and teeth healthy, but also is mentally
satisfying. Plus if you are trying to put weight on, you are going to need
more meat than mixes generally contain, and you don't want her food "watered
down" by unnecessary ingredients that are so often part of the frozen foods.

You don't necessarily need a butcher....many of us merely watch for sales in
our local markets, etc. It's pretty easy to find whole chickens, turkeys
and fish and a variety of pork, lamb and beef parts. You might want to look
back at this recent message which has a ton of other ideas for sourcing your
food for her....
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/136992

It doesn't sound like a cause for the pancreatitis was ever determined.
Just wondering if you have tried a good digestive or pancreatic enzyme?
That might be something she could benefit from. We have talked about
feeding dogs with pancreatitis often in the past. I've got a few messages I
could direct you to if you are interested.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

Messages in this topic (2)
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12a. Update :) Re: Cheap meat sources, and an egg question
Posted by: "eminemmmfan" hd_sheena@hotmail.com eminemmmfan
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:07 pm ((PDT))

We hit some very hard times, as you all know, and were carefully
considering putting the dogs back on kibble. We invested our last bit
of dog money carefully into some inexpensive chicken that we split
into "human" meals and "Dog" meals, and that's been going well, mixed
with eggs, a bit of extra bone occasionally, and some organ. Today, I
got two LARGE boxes of scraps and a HUGE garbage bag full!!! I'm
thrilled as this should get us through these rough times. Our
neighbours are great!!!!
Hopeful once again,
Courtenay

Messages in this topic (17)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Monday, July 23, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11834

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