[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11827
There are 13 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
From: costrowski75
2a. Prednisone and raw feeding
From: dinafinkpa
2b. Re: Prednisone and raw feeding
From: Casey Post
2c. Re: Prednisone and raw feeding
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
2d. Re: Prednisone and raw feeding
From: carnesbill
3a. Re: Sterilizing Crate
From: Tracy
4a. Digestibility of Pork
From: Trish Chapman
4b. Re: Digestibility of Pork
From: costrowski75
4c. Re: Digestibility of Pork
From: Trish Chapman
4d. Re: Digestibility of Pork
From: Lisa Hope
5. Checking in Re Raw Diet
From: elkilpat
6a. Re: Newie to raw feeding needs advice
From: carnesbill
7. Slipper Elm Bark
From: Cdandp2@aol.com
Messages
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1a. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:52 pm ((PDT))
"Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...> wrote:
>
> I would go more by how she looks than what the scale says,
> personally. And, your scale at home may not be the same as the
> vet's, so you may or may not necessarily be able to compare those 2
> numbers.
*****
I've found I invariably guess my dogs weigh more than then really do;
that they look heavier than they are. I feel as if I am feeding them
vast quantities of food but find--when visiting the vet--that they
are easily five pounds less...not that five pounds means much on an
adult Lab or golden.
So I agree: go by how the dog looks. If you think it looks chubby,
and you base your conclusion on its shape, activity level and how it
actually feels to your touch, then for your purposes the dog needs to
lose a few.
Or vice versa.
Recently I was talking the owner of a young Chowchow and suggested as
gently as I know how (which you should all know by now ain't so
gently) her dog lose some weight. She was of course insulted and
said her vet said its weight was right at the breed standard. Except
that on that particular example of breed standard, the breed standard
was just too much. So there it was, bad hips at like 18 months and
already fat. Because the scale said it was just right.
Chris O
Messages in this topic (11)
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2a. Prednisone and raw feeding
Posted by: "dinafinkpa" dinafinkpa@yahoo.com dinafinkpa
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:57 pm ((PDT))
Hello - I started feeding my 7 year old choc lab raw food today and she wolfed everything
down. Here's my question: my dog has been on 10 mg of Prednisone since she was 1 in
order to prevent her from scratching herself raw due to her many, many allergies. It's the
only thing that has worked and I have tried everything (shots, acupuncture,etc.) I'm hoping
that the raw food diet will get her off Prednisone; can I go cold turkey on the Pred? Or
should I ween her off it gradually? I'm new to the group and it's been very informative so far.
Thanks in advance,
Dina
Philadelphia
Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Prednisone and raw feeding
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:14 pm ((PDT))
>>can I go cold turkey on the Pred?
No, absolutely not! That would be disasterous, to say the least.
>Or
> should I ween her off it gradually?
Gradually - as in *VERY* gradually. If this dog has been on Pred for six
years (!), you will want to take this extremely, extremely slowly. And
remember, diet is the foundation of good health, but it is by no means a
cure-all.
Good luck.
Casey
Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: Prednisone and raw feeding
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:58 pm ((PDT))
Dina,
Prednisone is a steroid, and can cause rage in anyone, including animals, if not weened off properly, or withdrawals, depending on the animal. It usually comes in tablet form, can be broken in half, and weened off that way, my husband is on it, and has to regulate up and down, and our dogs have been off and on for different reasons, over the years, also, regulate off and on. Yours has been on for so long, I would taper off over a long period rather than a short one, say maybe a month or so, depending on how well he is doing with the raw diet.
Wait and see how the diet goes for a few weeks, keep the prednisone on it's usual dosage, since the diet is new, you don't want to upset the cart with anything else.
After say a month on the diet, and all your kinks are worked out, and the dog is ok, no stomach problems, poops are good, and you've tried a new protein source, then taper off the steroid, only taper off half, for however long that seems to take.
See how the allergies do on the half dose of 5 mg, and if the dog reacts or not to the dosage change, any itch, no itch, an rash, hair loss difference, or hot spots, you know the drill and what to look for in your dogs allergies and how the out breaks occur. If they flair up, go back up on the prednisone, the diet hasn't taken hold just yet. Sometimes, years of kibble, takes a while to undue. And that's ok, you've done it for this long, what's a little longer on the steroid, just to insure that the dog is ok. And when you do go down on the prednisone, you'll know within a couple of days, if the dose is good or not.
If it is ok, and the dog is alright, don't just drop it, no matter what anyone says, it MUST BE TAPERED OFF, you can put a body into shock going off cold turkey. You could kill your dog. Some do just fine, others don't do at all. Don't risk it. Take it slow and easy, just to be safe, and your dog will be fine.
Once it does good on 5mg for about a month, then half that, for another month, and then take 2.5 to once every other day, for about a month. Then you should be able to go down to once a week, for a month, and off completely after that. So it should take about 4 to 6 months to ween off the steroids. That is how we tapered our big dogs, and our large to big dogs off of it when we needed to.
The whole time you are doing the raw diet, changing new meats, adding different bone and stuff, this will be your learning curve. And that is good for you and the dog. Taking your time on the diet and the steroids is always the best plan, for you and your dog.:) And if you have to go back up a little on the steroid, go up the same way you would go down, a little at a time, that way it's not such a shock, and they don't get the really big appetite, all at once, like they usually do when the prednisone goes up too fast, and that does explain, if you didn't know already, the large hungry, I can't get enough, I'll eat whatever isn't nailed down, syndromes! Oh, and the too fast weight gain/loss also, when you change the dosage too. Appetite changes also, when the dose goes up or down, depending on the dog, some will get hungrier when you go up on the dose, others not so, it just depends, yours has been on it for so long, it might have a depression kind of affect, so watch
for that. But I think it will be ok, if you are around, and on top of it, and let your vet know what you are doing, so they will know just in case you have a problem.
They won't agree with the diet, but you can say for your own reasons, you are trying a homeopathic allergy treatment, and are going to ween your dog off the steroid, (so you can test the effectiveness of the treatment) and just wanted them to know, in case there were difficulties, they were aware and could treat them accordingly. That should be all they need to know. And they may give different specific instructions for weening your dog off the steroids that you might prefer to follow, which is great too:)
I know if you are like me, you want your dog off the drugs now, but you can wait, and should wait, it's better for the dog, honest, we've been there. Take your time, trust in the diet, it will work, it did for mine in just two days after I brought the danes home, as puppies, Zena's tummy rash cleared right up, and no more scratching or redness! I knew it would work, just didn't think it would be that quick, for you, it could take time, your dog has been on kibble for years, my puppies were only on it for weeks. So keep us posted, and good luck in Philly.
Jeni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Messages in this topic (4)
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2d. Re: Prednisone and raw feeding
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:59 pm ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dinafinkpa" <dinafinkpa@...>
wrote:
>
> can I go cold turkey on the Pred? Or
> should I ween her off it gradually?
Dina,
I had a Golden once that was on 5mg of Pred every other day for 6 or
7 years for the same reason as your lab. Yes, I was finally able to
get her off after raw feeding.
If your dog were mine, I would wait 3 or 4 months before making any
change with the Pred. This will get all the kibble residue out of
her system. At that time, if you are giving 10mg every day now, I
would go to 10mg 2 out of 3 days for a couple of weeks. Next I
would go to 10mg every other day for another couple of weeks. Then
try 5mg every other day for another few weeks. Then 5mg one out of
3 days for a few weeks then gone all together. It is really
difficult to get a dog off Pred after being on it for so long.
Anytime she needed it, I would back up a step then continue on. Good
luck.
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Sterilizing Crate
Posted by: "Tracy" tracy.ramey@sbcglobal.net veganmomma1
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:00 pm ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Ash" <want4rain@...> wrote:
>
"id really like to feed him in his
> kennel inside (generous size *rolls eyes* we call it Misters
Palace).any of you ahve kids and feed like this? >
> ashley"
I feed both my dogs in their kennels. The food starts out in a bowl,
but the lab ends up dragging it all over the kennel anyway. She does a
good job cleaning up after herself. She also cleans my schnauzer's
kennel when he's done! I have a two year old who is very into the dogs -
hugging and kissing all over them all the time. I haven't had any kind
of problems so far. I hose the kennel trays down every once in a while,
but I really don't even think that's necessary. So go for it! Just give
it a good rinse now and then if it makes you feel better.
Tracy
Messages in this topic (8)
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4a. Digestibility of Pork
Posted by: "Trish Chapman" twotheark@verizon.net twotheark
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:02 pm ((PDT))
Hi,
Someone on another list that I am on has said that pork is one of the least
digestible meats that are readily available for us to feed our dogs. I
would like some clarification on this..... I thought it was generally
considered a "good" red meat for the dogs and could even be "preferred" over
something like chicken as far as being a little closer to a "natural prey"
choice. Is there some place where information like this exists?
Trish
Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: Digestibility of Pork
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:03 pm ((PDT))
"Trish Chapman" <twotheark@...> wrote:
> Someone on another list that I am on has said that pork is one of the
least
> digestible meats that are readily available for us to feed our dogs.
*****
Did you ask for any support for this statement? While I'm sure someone
smarter than I will provide an answer for you here, it seems to me that
such a statement ought to come complete with justification. You might
ask for substantiation. Be interesting to see what your correspondent
provides.
Chris O
Messages in this topic (4)
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4c. Re: Digestibility of Pork
Posted by: "Trish Chapman" twotheark@verizon.net twotheark
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:58 pm ((PDT))
I did ask and she said something like one source of her information was from
a raw feeding list of 4000 and another was her holistic vet ......so,
somewhat vague in the justification department.
Trish
----- Original Message -----
From: "costrowski75" <Chriso75@AOL.COM>
>> Someone on another list that I am on has said that pork is one of the
> least
>> digestible meats that are readily available for us to feed our dogs.
> *****
> Did you ask for any support for this statement? While I'm sure someone
> smarter than I will provide an answer for you here, it seems to me that
> such a statement ought to come complete with justification. You might
> ask for substantiation. Be interesting to see what your correspondent
> provides.
> Chris O
Messages in this topic (4)
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4d. Re: Digestibility of Pork
Posted by: "Lisa Hope" GreyhopeWeis@hotmail.com greyhope_weimaraners
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:59 pm ((PDT))
>Someone on another list that I am on has said that pork is one of the least
>digestible meats that are readily available for us to feed our dogs. I
>would like some clarification on this..... I thought it was generally
>considered a "good" red meat for the dogs and could even be "preferred"
>over
>something like chicken as far as being a little closer to a "natural prey"
>choice. Is there some place where information like this exists?
I totally agree with Chris - justification !!!
I feed young puppies pork and they at times have handled pork much better
than some other meats, I would think that very fatty pork may not be the
best thing to feed, however now days the way that table meat producing pigs
are raised is very different to feeding swill and other rubbish that was
once the way that pigs were fed.
My dogs love it too :)
Lisa
Greyhope Weis - Aust
http://www.users.bigpond.com/greyhopeweis
GreyhopeWeis@bigpond.com
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Messages in this topic (4)
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5. Checking in Re Raw Diet
Posted by: "elkilpat" elkilpat@yahoo.ca elkilpat
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:08 pm ((PDT))
I've been feeding raw for about 4 months now. Bailey is 75 lbs, golden
dude, 17 months. I just wanted to check in with others in this group re
what I'm feeding, to ensure all bases are being covered. I feed 2
meals a day altho breakfast is really quite small - this works for us
both. He gets about 1/2 lb approx of meat in the morning, sometimes a
chicken foot or piece of liver or heart as well. Then dinners are
about 1-1.5 lb (give or take) - a variety of (1) straight meat/offal
mix, (2) chicken 1/3's, (3)chicken legs with liver or heart, (4)chicken
carcass with some added meat,(5)bison,(6)lamb necks (good sized
chunks. I throw in an egg several times a week. He seems to be doing
extremely well, very active, happy, balanced, no problems with stools,
etc. So, I'm assuming all is well. For those who have fed raw for much
longer are we missing anything?
Ellen & Bailey
Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: Newie to raw feeding needs advice
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:04 pm ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lmustoe" <lmustoe@...> wrote:
>
> i was wondering how much and which meat would be best for her.
>
Hi Lee,
Welcome to whe world of raw feeding. For my suggestions on
beginning raw feeding, check out my web page at
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm - Read the book "Work
Wonders" by Dr. Tom Lonsdale. You can find it at
http://www.rawmeatybones.com and you can download it in PDF format
for free at the same location.
A few informative web sites are:
http://rawfeddogs.net/
--- be sure and check the recipes page.
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
If you have more questions (and you will) ask them here. :)
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (2)
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7. Slipper Elm Bark
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:55 am ((PDT))
Someone asked why I add honey (sorry, I lost the e-mail as I was responding
to it....love my AOL...NOT).
But I think it's just for taste. The SEB is really bitter and my dog takes
it better with the honey. If it has another function, I don't know what it
is. The recipe was given to me by someone on my kidney list a few years ago.
Carol for Spencer
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Messages in this topic (1)
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posted by Feed Pets Raw Food @ 5:47 AM
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