[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11819

There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Probably stupid question re: grass-fed meat
From: jeff wissler
1b. Re: Probably stupid question re: grass-fed meat
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: Probably stupid question re: grass-fed meat
From: leyssartade
1d. Re: Probably stupid question re: grass-fed meat
From: carnesbill

2a. Re: 80/10/10?
From: Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com

3a. Re: Duck
From: costrowski75
3b. Re: Duck
From: Caren OConnor

4a. Re: Was stinky gaaaas/now Organs?
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: Newbie needs advice and encouragement
From: carnesbill

6a. Re: How much heart is too much? Training treats
From: Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com

7a. organs
From: Carol Santangelo
7b. Re: organs
From: Laurie Swanson

8a. Re: Pork safety?
From: carnesbill
8b. Re: Pork safety?
From: cypressbunny
8c. Re: Pork safety?
From: carnesbill

9a. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
From: Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com

10a. Are we feeding poison to our dogs/cats?
From: deep_ocean_of_sorrow
10b. Are we feeding poison to our dogs/cats?
From: Daisy Foxworth

11a. Re: not eating with her paws
From: Lori Poirier

12a. Re: Help, I'm doing something wrong but dont know what!
From: montana.loki

13a. Re: liver - getting dogs to eat
From: Caren OConnor

Messages
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1a. Re: Probably stupid question re: grass-fed meat
Posted by: "jeff wissler" wisslewj@yahoo.com wisslewj
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:32 pm ((PDT))

Grass fed is best.

We have 3 grass fed farms around here. Thats all we
and the dogs eat. (pastured pork and chicken and
grassfed lamb also.)

The nutrient profile of grassfed is quite a bit
different then grain fed. (And obviously more
appropriate.)

I have talked with Ted several times. Nice guy. If
you don't have a farm nearby, Slankers is the way to
go!

You can find farms at www.eatwild.com
Just click on directory of farmers and then your
state.

Jeff

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Messages in this topic (7)
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1b. Re: Probably stupid question re: grass-fed meat
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:07 pm ((PDT))

K Carolyn Ramamurti <lilith23360@...> wrote:
>
> I have a couple of terrific sources for grass-fed meat and poultry.
Is there any harm in feeding almost exclusively grass-fed animals and
fowl?
*****
Heck no!
Rejoice!
Joice and joice again!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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1c. Re: Probably stupid question re: grass-fed meat
Posted by: "leyssartade" leyssartade@yahoo.com leyssartade
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:12 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES PLEASE.***

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, K Carolyn Ramamurti <lilith23360@...> wrote:
>Is there any harm in feeding almost exclusively grass-fed animals and fowl?

Meat, milk and eggs from grass-fed animals are far superior to those from grain fed animals.
The level of Omega 3 fatty acids in grass-fed beef is from 2-6 times higher than in grain fed
beef; it is up to 20 times higher in eggs from pastured hens than from factory hens. Grass-
fed cattle have 4 times as much Vitamin E, and up to 5 times more CLA (conjugated linoleic
acid) compared to grain fed cattle.

Ever wonder why everyone has to take fish oil capsules these days just to get sufficient
amounts of Omega 3s? Because people don't consume pastured meat/milks/eggs or wild
game like we were meant to do. You're very lucky to have a local source of grass-fed meat!

Messages in this topic (7)
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1d. Re: Probably stupid question re: grass-fed meat
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:21 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "leyssartade" <leyssartade@...>
wrote:
>
> Ever wonder why everyone has to take fish oil capsules these
> days just to get sufficient
> amounts of Omega 3s?

I have never taken a fish oil cap in my life and as far as I know, I
am not short of O3. How would you know if you are?

As far as I know, most cattle are grass fed until the last few
months of his life. I know there are literally tens of thousands of
cows in pastures around me. I see them every day happily grazing
away. ;)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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2a. Re: 80/10/10?
Posted by: "Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com" Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com irishcateyes1
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:34 pm ((PDT))

ROFL! Too funny! Tamatha

In a message dated 7/16/2007 1:13:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
llatkinson@gmail.com writes:

Ok, I think I have to stand up and say "Hi, My name is Laura, I've
been rawfeeding for 5 years and I still weigh my dogs' meals."

Phew. I feel much better now :-)

--
Laura A

Any dog can teach a child responsibility and commitment.

A German Shepherd Dog will show the child the meaning
of dedication.

"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life,
his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true, to the last beat of
his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." --Unknown

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (19)
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3a. Re: Duck
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:53 pm ((PDT))

Caren OConnor <cavkist@...> wrote:
>
> Hello list members -
> Does anyone have experience feeding duck?
*****
It's fatty and it's bony. If you are looking for a novel protein,
there are other critters that will provide more meat for your
doggiedollars.

Duck is not magical enough to justify its expense.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: Duck
Posted by: "Caren OConnor" cavkist@yahoo.com cavkist
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:24 am ((PDT))

Thanks, Chris. I appreciate your frank response:)
Caren O'Connor
Nansemond Cavaliers

---------------------------------
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: Was stinky gaaaas/now Organs?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:56 pm ((PDT))

Marguerite <semitruestory@...> wrote:
>
> So sweetbread would be considered organs?
*****
Yup.
We don't have a separate catagory for glands so we stick them in with
the organs. They would be part of the "other 5% of the diet that's not
liver."
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: Newbie needs advice and encouragement
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:24 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, gina panza <gpanza@...> wrote:
>
> 1. Chicken backs? Is this just the bones? or bones with meat?

Chicken backs are a little heavy in bone although I feed my 2 Great
Danes 2 chicken backs a day mostly as snacks. Chicken backs are 44%
bone as per USDA.

> 2. I woke up this morning and stepped on a 1 and almost 2
> inch long
> pieces of rib bone and a small bit of vomit. Is this normal?

Sometimes yes, more so in the beginning of eating real food. You
see, it takes the body a few weeks to adjust the stomach juice
acidity to be acid enough to completly digest bone. I suggest you
feed only chicken bones the first couple of weeks because they are
relatively soft and easy to digest.

> Could this have caused a puncture in his intestine?

Its very doubtful. Not impossible but very rare. In my 4 1/2 years
of raw feeding and being on several raw feeding lists with thousands
of people, I have only known one confirmed perforation.

> This scared me!

Not nearly as scary as getting on the freeway.

> What else am I doing wrong?

I think you may be rushing variety a little too fast. Check out my
web page at http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm for my
suggestions on how to begin feeding a raw diet.

> I know this gets easier the more information that one has but I
> jumped in and then realized how much I did not know.

Don't feel bad, you are not the only person who has done this. Read
the book "Work Wonders" by Dr. Tom Lonsdale. You can find it at

http://www.rawmeatybones.com and you can download it in PDF format
for free at the same location.

A few informative web sites are:
http://rawfeddogs.net/

--- be sure and check the recipes page.
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (13)
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6a. Re: How much heart is too much? Training treats
Posted by: "Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com" Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com irishcateyes1
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:28 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Sounds great! Thanks Bill!

Tamatha


In a message dated 7/16/2007 8:00:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
carnesw@bellsouth.net writes:

--- In _rawfeeding@yahoogrorawfeed_ (mailto:rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com) ,
Hllywoodcaper7@, Hllywood
>
>
>
> Bill, what do you use that is that small? Liver? Can you use
> them for
> positive reinforcement with potty training?

I use Authority Little Liver Treats from Petsmart and sometimes
BilJack Liver Treats. They come in little kibble size chunks. Each
chunk will make about 15 or 20 different treats. Yes, I use them
for postiive reinforcement treats all the time for training any
behavior.

Bill Carnes
_http://www.skylarzahttp://www.skylahttp:_
(http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm)

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Any dog can teach a child responsibility and commitment.

A German Shepherd Dog will show the child the meaning
of dedication.

"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life,
his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true, to the last beat of
his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." --Unknown

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. organs
Posted by: "Carol Santangelo" carol.santangelo@gmail.com santangelo_carol
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:21 pm ((PDT))

Is it ok for the 10% of the diet that is comprised of organs to be only
liver? I know ideally it should be 5% liver and 5% other organs...but I
can't seem to find any other organs. Is tripe considered organs? I have
been feeding that on occassion. Thanks.

Carol

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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7b. Re: organs
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:38 am ((PDT))

Hi Carol,

I think people have different opinions as to what makes
an "acceptable" diet. I like to keep searching for more variety. I
think it's fun and my dog loves it and I think it will help him be as
healthy as possible. It's all on a continuum, though. I'm sure you
are doing lots better than most people. I think you can feed too
much liver, though.

Do you have any Asian or Latino markets near you? Good stuff there--
kidney, spleen, brains, pig heads. Beef heart is avail. at some
grocery stores (incl. some Wal-Marts, I believe). What about chicken
or turkey heart? Sweetbreads? Do you feed any whole fish? That's a
way to get some eyeballs and other organs.

I haven't fed tripe yet and can't remember if it's considered an
organ (probably?)...there are tripe mixes w/other organs you can
order online--like tripe mixed w/trachea, etc. at

www.greentripe.com.

There's also various fun things (organs, etc.)
at www.prey4pets.com.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Santangelo"
<carol.santangelo@...> wrote:
>
> Is it ok for the 10% of the diet that is comprised of organs to be
only
> liver? I know ideally it should be 5% liver and 5% other
organs...but I
> can't seem to find any other organs. Is tripe considered organs?

Messages in this topic (9)
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8a. Re: Pork safety?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:21 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cypressbunny" <cypressbunny@...>
wrote:

> *** In the US the rate of trich in pork is now about 0.007%.
>
I would be surprised if it's anywhere near that high. If I did my
math right, and I made a mistake a couple of years ago, that means 7
out of every 100,000 pigs slaughtered has trich. With 473,000 pigs
slaughtered every day in the U.S. and Canada, that would mean over
30 pigs a day was slaughtered with trich. I think that is a very
hight number. I don't think a pig with trich is found every few
years but I am guessing here. Is my math wrong? Is my reasoning
wrong?

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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8b. Re: Pork safety?
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:28 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cypressbunny" <cypressbunny@>
> wrote:
>
> > *** In the US the rate of trich in pork is now about 0.007%.
> >
> I would be surprised if it's anywhere near that high.

@@@ Hmm. I'm going by the last reported scientific numbers. If you
have new more recent numbers, or some other better source of info, I'd
be delighted to hear it.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (5)
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8c. Re: Pork safety?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:36 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cypressbunny" <cypressbunny@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cypressbunny"
<cypressbunny@>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > *** In the US the rate of trich in pork is now about 0.007%.
> > >
> > I would be surprised if it's anywhere near that high.
>
> @@@ Hmm. I'm going by the last reported scientific numbers. If you
> have new more recent numbers, or some other better source of info,
I'd
> be delighted to hear it.

I'm going by your numbers. The only number I am furnishing is the
number of hogs slaughtered/day. My information is from 2003 as per

http://www.londonswineconference.ca/proceedings/2004/LSC2004_PAnwende
r.pdf which says that 123,000,000 hogs were slaughtered in that
year.

If your .007% is a correct number and my math is correct that means
that 30 hogs/day or 600 hogs/month are slaughtered with trich. That
just seems like an awful high number to me. I think our pork supply
is much safer than that.

Wasn't there a report somewhere that said that trich has been
eliminated from hogs from the U.S. and several other countries and
that no cases have been known since the early 90s? or was it the 80s?

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. Re: Not going to the bathroom//What does liver look like?
Posted by: "Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com" Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com irishcateyes1
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:22 pm ((PDT))

Bill wrote: "I only bought a couple and never
bought another. Gizzards are sacks that hold rocks. I don't see
them as very nutritious."


LOL! So much for my moment of brilliance on finding extra variety of chicken
and some organ cheap. ;) YUCK! Didn't know what purpose a gizzard served
until now. I thought it was intestines not sacks for rocks! He seems to like
it as treats but I guess he would though. ;)

Thanks again!

Tamatha

Any dog can teach a child responsibility and commitment.

A German Shepherd Dog will show the child the meaning
of dedication.

"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life,
his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true, to the last beat of
his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." --Unknown

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (15)
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10a. Are we feeding poison to our dogs/cats?
Posted by: "deep_ocean_of_sorrow" deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com deep_ocean_of_sorrow
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:37 am ((PDT))

So there are no lead in the gasoline? Well, what the heck does all those
premium, regular , stuff mean on the gasoline stations?? shouldn't there
be no difference?

Kate

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Ross Senger" <rosssenger@...> wrote:
>
> > Thanks to everyone that replied, I suppose we cannot change the
> > world to stop using unleaded gasoline..
>
>
> I have read many books that talk about the lead content in meat due
> to this and have developed a few opinions.
>
> 1) I am feeding my dogs the same type of meat I eat (sometimes the
> exact same meat). So if I am poisoning them I must also be poisoning
> myself.
>
> 2) Lead was eliminated from most gasoline in the U.S. during the
> 1970s and 1980s so there has been 20 years of cars driving
> on "UNLEADED" (no-Lead gas) in the US.
>
> FYI: Possession and use of leaded gasoline in a regular on-road
> vehicle now carries a maximum $10,000 fine in the United States. In
> some parts of South America, Asia, Europe and the Middle East, leaded
> gasoline is still in use.

Messages in this topic (11)
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10b. Are we feeding poison to our dogs/cats?
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:10 am ((PDT))

>
>
> So there are no lead in the gasoline? Well, what the heck does all
those
> premium, regular , stuff mean on the gasoline stations?? shouldn't
there
> be no difference?
>

There is no lead in UNLEADED gasoline. That is why it is called
UNLEADED. ;^) Gasoline is a mixture of very hazardous chemicals,
lead was just one of them.

Also, lead is a naturally occurring metal and will be found
naturally in higher levels in soil and groundwater in different
parts of the country. It is also susceptible to leaching in an acid
environment, so older plumbing, which tends to be lead and copper
pipe, may produce more lead (and copper) in the tap water unless the
water is kept very alkaline.

Premium v regular v. hightest v. whatever is a difference in octane
and affects your car's performance.

Daisy

Messages in this topic (11)
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11a. Re: not eating with her paws
Posted by: "Lori Poirier" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:37 am ((PDT))

> Perhaps you youself might want to delve into the archives for some recommendations.

I have, and have found some great information. Maybe Pam will as well. The search feature isn't always the greatest, but even when it turned up information I wasn't looking for, it was nonetheless interesting reading.

> What is likely to lead to WW3 is the assumption that kibble is better than raw.
> If you don't go there, it won't happen.
> Chris O

Huh? Why are you bringing up kibble? What does kibble have to do with this subject string?

Lori

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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12a. Re: Help, I'm doing something wrong but dont know what!
Posted by: "montana.loki" montana.loki@yahoo.com montana.loki
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:37 am ((PDT))

Thanks for the advice and responses everyone!

I fasted Loki today and she hasn't had an 'accident' since sometime
during last night. She did look a bit sad that there was no food today
but was full of her usual energy. Tomorrow we'll start with whole
pieces of chicken and split it up into two meals.

Hopefully that will straighten things out. If not, maybe that giardia
test is in order. We did go to the river a couple weekends ago...

Cheers,
Jennifer

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "montana.loki" <montana.loki@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Any other ideas and suggestions?
> >

Messages in this topic (5)
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13a. Re: liver - getting dogs to eat
Posted by: "Caren OConnor" cavkist@yahoo.com cavkist
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:23 am ((PDT))

Kim -
I have another recycled suggestion for getting dogs to eat liver. Plop it in a pan and sear it quickly, not cooking it through. My dogs prefer it either this way or frozen - aka livercicles. Guess they're grossed out by the texture, as well. Can't say as I blame them!
Caren O'Connor
Nansemond Cavaliers

---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

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Messages in this topic (17)
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