[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11815

There are 6 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Are we feeding poison to our dogs/cats?
From: deep_ocean_of_sorrow

2. Help, I'm doing something wrong but dont know what!
From: montana.loki

3a. Re: Border Collie pups / RAW
From: Krissy

4. Update:effect of raw diet on arthritis
From: a.flynn@optusnet.com.au

5a. Re: She doesn't use her paws to eat ?!?
From: woofwoofgrrl

6a. Re: butcher cuts?
From: linoleum5017

Messages
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1. Are we feeding poison to our dogs/cats?
Posted by: "deep_ocean_of_sorrow" deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com deep_ocean_of_sorrow
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:42 am ((PDT))

A few nights ago, I was up most of the night reading the book
Dr.Pitcairn's complete Guide to Natural Health For Dogs & Cats.(I'm sure
everyone here has heard about it or read it.)
In the book, it talked about what is really in pet foods(feathers as
poultry by-product??newspaper as fiber?!) and about what goes into the
stomach of chickens, pork, and more specifically, cattle. Chemical
contamination, pesticides, herbicides, heavy metals can still be in the
fat, bones, or meat. I'm going to quote passages from the book to make
it easier to understand..(this is going to be long, so hold on tight and
read everything)

" Heavy Metals
Important class of contaminants is heavy metals (arsenic, cadmium,
and especially mercury)... increasingly finding their way into our food
chain...EPA has been allowing the recycling of industry waste-- material
loaded with heavy metals--into commercial fertilizers...Heavy metals are
not destroyed over time. In the soil, plants take them up into their
tissues, where they remain for the life of the plant. When this plant is
eaten by an animal, the metals enter the animal's body and collect
there...If that animal is eaten by another animal, that additional
accumulation, more concentrated, is passed on...the carnivores that eat
these grazing animals consume a greater load." (Pitcairn)

also another quote talking about lead poisoning:

" Lead, the Most Common Hazardous Metal
In one study, a sampling of canned pet foods reveled lead
contamination levels ranging from 0.9 to 7.0 parts per million (ppm) in
cat foods and 1.0 to 5.6 ppm in dog foods. Daily intake of only six
ounces od such foods would exceed the dose of lead considered
potentially toxic for children.
Much of this contamination comes from the use of bone meal in pet
foods. Though they are otherwise an excellent source of calcium and
other minerals, the bones of American cattle contain high levels of
lead, owing to our prolonged usage of leaded gasoline over several
decades. The only safe bone meal nowadays is from cattle raised in South
America, Ethiopia, or some other country with few
automobiles...poisoning by these contaminants is very difficult to
recognize. They come on gradually and are not very distinctive in their
symptoms...Some will be hyperactive, have seizures, become hysterical,
go blind, have stomach cramps and diarrhea, constipation, or develop
thickened and itchy skin. Not all these symptoms occur--there may be
just one...If your pet has accumulated lead, for example, and was sick
from just this one thing...and you took your pet to a veterinatirian for
help, I think it is very, very unlikely that lead poisoning would be
recognized. I posed that question to a number of vets that I know..."If
there was no obvious anemia, would you be likely to make a diagnosis of
lead poisoning in an animal suffering from it?" Out of 13 that answered,
10 said they did not think they would recognize it...three that said
they might have prior experience with lead-poisoned animals and were
therefore on the lookout..." (Pitcairn)

I was so freaked out, I couldn't sleep that night after reading this
part of the book. I was so scared that I might of fed lead, mercury or
whatever chemicals to my dog... it was like a nightmare being in bed,
awake.

I know that there are no any problems with the pet food(yuck) lead
poisoning, but its very concerning me of what I may be giving my beloved
dog. Should we all start switching to Whole Foods meat (or any other
natural, organic food stores we can rely) or something? I'm pretty sure
its a bit more expensive than the normal butcher meat or meats you can
buy at supermarkets...

What should we raw feeders do?!?

sources:
Pitcairn, Richard H., and Susan H. Pitcairn. 3rd ed. Holtzbrinck, 2005.
25-26.

¢¼Kate

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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2. Help, I'm doing something wrong but dont know what!
Posted by: "montana.loki" montana.loki@yahoo.com montana.loki
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:42 am ((PDT))

Hi! We switched to raw feeding almost 3 months ago and are pretty
pleased with the whole thing. In the last couple of weeks though
Loki has been having liquid poops and going during the night also.
Can someone help me figure out how to fix this? She never used to go
to the bathroom during the night and I'm getting tired of cleaning
things up when I get home (I work nightshift).

Loki is about 55 pounds and very active. Initially I measured 1 1/2
pounds of food but she just walked away from most of it. I decided
she just didnt want to eat that much so I ended up giving her about
a pound or so. I dont use the scale too much anymore but the
ziplocks are split into roughly one-pound 'or-so' meals. She is
still very active and is in great shape. She isnt sick or lethargic
or anything.

She eats beef (brisket, ribs, roasts and other meaty cuts), pork
(roasts, riblets and other meaty meat cuts) and chicken (home ground
with the organs - the cat will only eat whole chicken meat now but
Loki will eat the ground if it is mixed with some smelly, nasty
tripe or ground trachea). I know the ground isnt optimal and once
the ground is used up we'll go back to chicken quarters. The ground
chicken has organs ground up with it, plus she gets tripe and a
small amount of dehydrated liver (the only way she would eat it).

Since Loki is about a year and a half old now I wanted to switch her
to once a day feedings, which I did about 3 + weeks ago. But she had
the dreaded bile vomits so I started making her once a day feedings
more random. THis worked and after about a week and a half the YBV's
went away.

Anyway, her poops for the last couple weeks have been really mucosy
and almost completely liquid most of the time. The only time they
were remotely solid was when she ate half a pig's foot. She gets
beef ribs (eats most of it usually although this is usually a once
or twice a week treat not a meal) and the chicken bones, and pork
riblets but most of her meals are just meaty meat. Is this too
much meaty meat in her diet? Does she need more bone?

At a year and a half she is full grown but should I go back to twice
a day feedings?

Any other ideas and suggestions?

I am dedicated to raw and will not switch back (besides the cat
would mutiny if I did). Loki's bad skin allergies have cleared up
and she hasn't had to have any meds in almost two months. I jsut
need to get these lakes of poo to cease! Please help!

Jennifer

PS. Sorry so long but i thought the background would help you help
me!

Messages in this topic (1)
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3a. Re: Border Collie pups / RAW
Posted by: "Krissy" krissy@mitre.org krissyar26
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:17 am ((PDT))

Dave wrote:
> A friend of mine is getting ready to have a litter of 2nd generation
> RAW fed Border Collies.
>
> Where could I post to get this information out to people that feed
RAW?

If the dogs are NR (naturally reared) and not just rawfed, try the NR
Classifieds:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ClassifiedDogsNR

Krissy

Messages in this topic (3)
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4. Update:effect of raw diet on arthritis
Posted by: "a.flynn@optusnet.com.au" a.flynn@optusnet.com.au flynn_nn
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:50 am ((PDT))

Hello,

Just had to write and let everyone know how my old girl (13 yo lab x) is getting on with her new raw diet and no arthritis medication.

It's been a bit over 2 weeks now and the difference really is amazingly good and after such a short time! I already raved about her clean teeth and breath in my post a week ago.

Another week on, and her eyes are noticably much brighter, she is wagging her tail a lot, she is more keen to go for her walk and is walking faster when out on her walk than usual. (She could barely stand up, let alone go for her walk when on a break between medications recently)

My son (8) who helped me research the diet on the net and is watching the progress, excitedly ran in yesterday to tell me that Jessie was cleaning her backside! May seem like a strange thing to get excited about, but honestly she has been too stiff for the past year or so to bend around to do this, so we are very excited!!

It is the middle of winter here (Australia) so I was concerned at first how she would go without the medication but I was keen to see clearly the effect of the diet alone, and I am so pleased we gave it a go. Seems to me that she may not need the medication at all for now. She absolutely loves her raw food and if she died tomorrow, I would feel better that she has at least had these happier weeks.

I so much wish I had found out sooner how bad canned and kibbled junk is for them.

If any one reading this is sitting on the fence about doing the raw thing with your dogs....I would say just do it...dive right in and give your dogs what nature intended. They will be so much happier.

Cheers, Ann.

Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: She doesn't use her paws to eat ?!?
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:13 am ((PDT))

Lori,
Great advice that applies to much more than just raw feeding! It
applies to life. Bless you for taking in foster kids! I have great
respect for those who lovingly take on those kids in need. I know I
couldn't do it, so I truely admire those who can, and do.

Christine

>
> As the adoptive parent of many "throw-away" dogs and kids, whenever I try any new teaching method, or rules, I must ask myself...
>
> 1) What am I TRYING TO TEACH?
> and then...
> 2) What is my dog (or child) ACTUALLY LEARNING from me?
>
> It sounds like you are lovingly investing yourself in doing what is best for Christine...yet she is learning that you are mean, and don't care enough about her to feed her the good stuff.
>
> (It's TOUGH...being a mom!)
>
>> I am strong enough to break up the stubborn streak in her
>
> Are you sure you want to? Maybe guide it, shape it, lead it...but our dogs are often mirrors of ourselves...which is why I am so comfortable with "uniquely tempered" kids and dogs!
>
> In addition to foster-dogs, we opened our home to many teenage foster kids (and teens in the system have ISSUES...). We also have two biological kids who are autistic, and two others who are ADHD. I guess all of that has caused me to understand that as valuable as advice is, it's all about relationships...with our fellow humans as well as our animal friends.
>
> Raw feeding is healthy for dogs, but so is a loving and trusting relationship with the human pack leader. Your acts of love are being understood as punishment...not always something you can prevent, with pets or kids, but if they perceive too many of our actions as being mean or heavy handed, their respect and obedience will be based more on fear than on trust...exactly the opposite of what we want.
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Re: butcher cuts?
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:37 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

WOW! Thank you, Chris O & Google. Guess I won't be affording any
saddles, (but at least I know what they are, now.) I'll just have
to 'hoof it.' (as opposed to 'winging it?')

Lynne

"linoleum5017" <linoleum5017@> wrote:
> Sooo..... can anyone tell me what these
> > cuts are:
> *****
> Courtesy GOOGLE. >
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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