[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11813

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: 80/10/10?
From: Ross Senger
1b. Re: 80/10/10?
From: Kasandra
1c. Re: 80/10/10?
From: Bearhair
1d. Re: 80/10/10?
From: costrowski75

2a. Border Collie pups / RAW
From: Dave Strickland
2b. Re: Border Collie pups / RAW
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: How much heart is too much? Training treats
From: Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com
3b. Re: How much heart is too much? Training treats
From: carnesbill

4a. Re: lactating bitch refusing raw
From: tottime47

5a. Re: She doesn't use her paws to eat ?!?
From: Andrea
5b. Re: She doesn't use her paws to eat ?!?
From: shefy gupta

6a. Re: Are slightly runny stools a problem?
From: Andrea
6b. Re: Are slightly runny stools a problem?
From: Laurie Swanson

7a. When is a pup no longer a pup?
From: Ross Senger
7b. Re: When is a pup no longer a pup?
From: carnesbill
7c. Re: When is a pup no longer a pup?
From: Laura Atkinson

8a. Re: Little odgs
From: tottime47

9. not eating with her paws
From: Lyse Garant

10a. mucousy poop/bile vomits (was Re: Pork Neck Bones
From: Laurie Swanson

11a. Re: 80/10/10?//scale
From: brutus_buckley

12. starting new puppy on raw food
From: leyssartade

13a. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
From: linoleum5017

14a. Re: supplement w/digestive enzymes?
From: Monica

15a. Re: Fish Question....
From: linoleum5017

16. only salmon?
From: Jessie

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: 80/10/10?
Posted by: "Ross Senger" rosssenger@shaw.ca rosssenger
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

>what is the best kind of scale to get for weighing food? I need one
>the is reasonably priced. Any reccomendations?

Cherie,

I just use a normal bathroom scale. I package food in meal size ziploc
freezer bags (2-3lbs). I weigh myself and then weigh myself plus the
food bag. You can get bathroom scales that claim to be accurate within
0.1 lbs.

It is a cheep way :P, I don't know how I would go about measuring for
smaller dogs.

-Ross

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: 80/10/10?
Posted by: "Kasandra" klhesek@yahoo.com klhesek
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:25 pm ((PDT))

Me too... I don't weigh every meal, but for some foods I know my dogs
will get sick with too much, and I'm HORRIBLE at eyeballing it!

Target and Walmart both have good, inexpensive scales...

Kasandra

"Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, I think I have to stand up and say "Hi, My name is Laura, I've
> been rawfeeding for 5 years and I still weigh my dogs' meals."

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: 80/10/10?
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:54 pm ((PDT))

Jessie wrote:

>Laura Atkinson wrote:
>>
>> Ok, I think I have to stand up and say "Hi, My name is Laura, I've
>> been rawfeeding for 5 years and I still weigh my dogs' meals."
>> Phew. I feel much better now :-)

>Good, I'm not the only one!
>Of course I've only been doing this for 7-8 months, but I've got
>Brody doing agility and am trying to keep her as absolutely trim as
>possible. I'd like her thinner than what she is now, but won't
>stress myself over it. . . .
>I got my scale (not digital) for about $10 at Bed Bath and Beyond.
>Its small, easy to keep on the counter but out of the way. It only
>has markers for up to 7lbs but I never use it for anything that heavy.
>>It gets the job done and makes life easier for me. So while a lot of
>people don't use scales, I do and I like it!

I have a digital scale from Bed Bath & Beyond (don't forget your coupon!) and
use it to ensure I avoid my tendency to overfeed. Two of my three came in too
heavy (I knew the Setter would, wasn't sure about the Collie). It's just so
damn FUN to feed 'em and watch 'em eat it, I need the scale to stop me from
handing them everything I have in the fridge!

It has a zero set, so I can place a container on it, zero it, then add the
meat. I only use it for the total, not to calculate 80/10/10.

Lora

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: 80/10/10?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:26 pm ((PDT))

"Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, I think I have to stand up and say "Hi, My name is Laura, I've
> been rawfeeding for 5 years and I still weigh my dogs' meals."
*****
Yeah, but you got weird dogs that gain weight when you wave a steak at
them.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Border Collie pups / RAW
Posted by: "Dave Strickland" dave@outrunbc.com herdnbc
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

Hi ,

A friend of mine is getting ready to have a litter of 2nd generation
RAW fed Border Collies.

Where could I post to get this information out to people that feed RAW?

Thanks,

Dave Strickland
www.outrunbc.com
www.okstockdog.com

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Border Collie pups / RAW
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:39 pm ((PDT))

"Dave Strickland" <dave@...> wrote:
>
> Hi ,
>
> A friend of mine is getting ready to have a litter of 2nd generation
> RAW fed Border Collies.
>
> Where could I post to get this information out to people that feed
RAW?
*****
Oh jeez, Dave, like I need to know this. Please tell me your friend
lives in some remote inaccessible corner of Oklahoma.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: How much heart is too much? Training treats
Posted by: "Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com" Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com irishcateyes1
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:33 pm ((PDT))

Bill, what do you use that is that small? Liver? Can you use them for
positive reinforcement with potty training? Thanks! Tamatha

In a message dated 7/16/2007 1:12:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
carnesw@bellsouth.net writes:

--- In _rawfeeding@yahoogrorawfeed_ (mailto:rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com) ,
"Suzie G" <gusmyhairyboy@gus> wrote:
>

Training treats should be very tasty and small. The treats I use are
about the size of the head of a pin. I don't think you can cut heart
that small. Regardless, the volume of training treats is so small as
to be an insignificant part of the diet.

Bill Carnes
_http://www.skylarzahttp://www.skylahttp:_
(http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm)

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Any dog can teach a child responsibility and commitment.

A German Shepherd Dog will show the child the meaning
of dedication.

"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life,
his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true, to the last beat of
his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." --Unknown

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: How much heart is too much? Training treats
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:59 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Hllywoodcaper7@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Bill, what do you use that is that small? Liver? Can you use
> them for
> positive reinforcement with potty training?

I use Authority Little Liver Treats from Petsmart and sometimes
BilJack Liver Treats. They come in little kibble size chunks. Each
chunk will make about 15 or 20 different treats. Yes, I use them
for postiive reinforcement treats all the time for training any
behavior.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: lactating bitch refusing raw
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:33 pm ((PDT))

Hi Chris O,

You're probably right, I threw out the wrapper,
but all I know if he wouldn't go near it.......one sniff and he
was gone, lol.

I figure he was like most males, waiting for a steak, hahahaha!

Carol, Charkee & Maggie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:

> Since the presence of melamine went unnoticed in wet petfood until
> cynauric acid got into the act, my guess is your dog was not
responding
> to melamine, but rather that the pork was "enhanced" for flavor
and/or
> juiciness.
>
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: She doesn't use her paws to eat ?!?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:35 pm ((PDT))

I have a couple of ideas for you. First, have you tried giving her
partially frozen foods? It sounds like it might be a texture thing
for her and firming up the meat a little might go a long way.

If you try freezing and it still doesn't work, it's time for some
serious tough love. You're doing pretty well with that already, but
I can tell your heart isn't really in it. Trust me, if she's
healthy, she won't starve herself to death. Stop chopping things up
for her and making the wonderful breakfast patties. At feeding time,
she gets her food, if she doesn't want it, tough. Tomorrow she might
be more hungry.

Not touching things with their paws isn't completely uncommon. Some
dogs take a while to really "get it," and some go their whole lives
keeping paws away from food. They might eat differently, but they
manage and it probably takes more effort on their part.

Keep giving your girl the fish oil capsules, but try to get her to
eat more meat. Oh, and give the hubby a good talking to about the
leftover t-bones. I know his heart is in the right place, but cooked
bones are really bad.

You may consider moving on to pork once her stools settle out. Pork
is more fatty, more flavorful, and more firm than chicken so she
might like it more.

Don't feel like she hates you for being tough. Once she gets the
idea that *you* are in charge instead of her, she'll come around.
Good luck, and let us know how it is going.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mz_boomer2" <mz_boomer2@...>
wrote:

> I have done everything including taking it away and making her
> wait longer and longer in between feedings. Between her stuborness
> and mine she didn't eat for 2 days and finally broke down with the
> chicken the 1 week. My concern is that she is extremely active and
> runs everywhere burning up alot of energy and drops weight rapidly.
> And if I keep "battling witts" with her ...she just eats that much
> less and losing THAT much more weight. I watch my husband like a
hawk
> when he's home...so no more sneaking her stuff, she has no k**b**,
> and she doesn't get treats, and I am home all day with her.
>
> I know I am the bad guy to her now...she doesn't sleep with me
> anymore and she just glares at me across the room! She respects my
> commands and listens well but she is so sullen that its breaking my
> heart.

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: She doesn't use her paws to eat ?!?
Posted by: "shefy gupta" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:24 pm ((PDT))

hmm i had this problem with snowy, but i don't give him meats yet that he needs to 'hold' down. i catch him holding it down sometimes, but very rarely. mostly he uses his teeth.

if you want to put weight on her and it's becoming a big concern, i'd say give her something she doesn't need to hold down. you can always work on that later. and try a whole crapload of different meats. i feed snowy different varieties of meats by bravo, elk, ostrich, turkey, lamb breast, venison, rabbit, quail... maybe you'll get lucky and find some stuff she likes!

best
shefy and snowy

mz_boomer2 <mz_boomer2@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi there,

First off I want to thank everyone for their expertise and
knowledge.

I have been feeding my 2 lab mixes raw for a little over 4 weeks
now. My lab/Sharpei (Halo) is thriving although he still gives me
the "look" ....Starts off by licking his chops with his ears perked,
tail wagging, and then he flattens down his ears (tail stops wagging)
bowing his head as if to say "..awww Mom AGAIN!??" ...sniffs it,
takes it, then proceeds to just guard it for awhile until his
competiion (his sister) starts poking around HIS space, then he eats
it. At least he is eating it.

My main concern was my female lab/Basenji mix (Christine). She was
the reason why I started seeking this diet. Her pickiness was making
me crazy. As if she is worried about her "waist line". She just picks
at the food won't eat again for another day or two. My worry was
increasing rapidly as I saw her ribs more and more. Took her to the
vet got a clean bill of health. Then I found this list and started to
her around a little bit. I want to put more weight on her (maybe
another 6 lbs??) I know it doesn't sound like much but on her
physique it makes quite a bit of difference.

I started off with the chicken 1/4's the first week (sometimes
having to pull it in half because she is such a "dainty eater") and
slowly introduced a little pork chop alternating w/chicken the 2nd.
Then I noticed how her fur became more course and DULL on her
backside and rear haunches. Her tears ducts would get big gloopy
oogies (much more than normal). Poop chalky white. So the only thing
I could think of was that she was getting over calcified. So the 3rd
week eliminated chicken bones or any bones (found out hubbie was
sneaking in T-bones left over from eating out steak dinners when I
STEPPED on several !) ......So, now the 4th week have introduced beef
liver, heart and ground beef with raw egg.

I have found the wonderful world of salmon oil thanks to this
list! And have proceeded to make a daily "breakfast" this week of a
raw hamburger pattie with 1 egg(no shells)and 4 each 1,000mg salmon
oil caps cut and drained into the mixture. Christine has taken very
well to this mix. She ate it up like her old canned food she loved.

Her coat has seemed to improve a little. Its seems "heavier" to
the touch and getting a little gloss back. And her eyes have cleared
up almost over night. And poop has returned to normal. I just don't
know how long its going to take to right her coat with all of her
dainty eating.

Of course, I got the "look" from Halo...but he soon dug in too.
Today I wanted her to have a little liver to "move" out some of the
excess bone she still had in her....I chopped into tiny pieces and
mixed with the raw ground beef mix...the little minx SPIT them ALL
OUT!! and ate everything else. Did the same with heart yesterday too.

So at noon a little while ago I gave her a chicken breast. She
takes it by the skin and when she eats it her paws are out to her
sides (like a Y) she jiggles the meat from the skin, lets it drop
then crunches on the bones and spits out skin and meat!! She leaves
behind about 60% of the meat with the bone in the middle and walks
away! ...its almost like she refuses to get her paws dirty to hold
and tear into her meal !! But she will run & play in the mud !

I have had her all her life and I have never seen this strange
behavior for a dog. She loves anything that crunches. I have given he
pigs feet and she uses her paws to hold and tear and actually
FINISHES that little meal. She is not taking raw steak, roasts, or
anything large or anything meaty. And she SPITS OUT the organs. I am
getting confounded !!

I have done everything including taking it away and making her
wait longer and longer in between feedings. Between her stuborness
and mine she didn't eat for 2 days and finally broke down with the
chicken the 1 week. My concern is that she is extremely active and
runs everywhere burning up alot of energy and drops weight rapidly.
And if I keep "battling witts" with her ...she just eats that much
less and losing THAT much more weight. I watch my husband like a hawk
when he's home...so no more sneaking her stuff, she has no k**b**,
and she doesn't get treats, and I am home all day with her.

I know I am the bad guy to her now...she doesn't sleep with me
anymore and she just glares at me across the room! She respects my
commands and listens well but she is so sullen that its breaking my
heart. I am strong enough to break up the stubborn streak in her, but
her inability to eat even a decent amount of anything is making me
nuts !!

Sorry for this lengthy post, but I wanted give as much info as
possible for you guys.

Any suggestions ? Anyone else had this problem?

Thanks in advance,
Pam
Christine & Halo

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.
Yahoo! Groups Links

---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: Are slightly runny stools a problem?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:35 pm ((PDT))

Lori, you are right, loose stools sometimes happen. More often than
not, they are a reflection of what went in. Feed a whole meal of beef
heart, get dark slightly loose stools out. Some people have a "food
diary" when they start that keeps track of what was fed and any
interesting observations about what then came out. I agree, unless it
is diarreah or chronic loose stool that upsets the dog, I never give a
second thought to them.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Lori Poirier <chaparraltrail@...>
wrote:
>
> This forum is a little similar to baby groups...it's amazing how much
time a bunch of grown-ups spend discussing poop! So here I go with
another:

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: Are slightly runny stools a problem?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:26 pm ((PDT))

Hi Lori,

Well, I'm not a medical professional but I don't worry about it
anymore (I did a bit in the beginning). Loose stools always make
sense with regard to being new to raw, or what I've fed previously (a
much bigger meal than usual, a new food, a few boneless meals,
something really fatty--especially a big meal of this). And they
don't accompany any other symptoms, and they resolve (change) back
to "normal" as I take note of things and adjust (reduce food
quantity, fat-content, etc.). I do believe it's something to be
aware of and not let go on too long. I mean, it just doesn't seem
natural for there to be constant squirts--plus I don't want to be
having to wipe my dog's butt all the time. I think you will know
if/when there's cause for concern (chronic, doesn't seem logically
related to what's being fed, other symptoms, etc.).

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Lori Poirier <chaparraltrail@...>
wrote:

is it a health concern or indicative of a problem if a dog's stool is
runny now and then? Or just something harmless that happens every now
and again, and no big deal, as with humans?

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. When is a pup no longer a pup?
Posted by: "Ross Senger" rosssenger@shaw.ca rosssenger
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:35 pm ((PDT))

I have an eight month old Great Dane that has been eating raw since
about 6 months old. She is a pig and will eat whatever I give her.

I have been feeding 2-3 lbs a day (gauging from her mothers weight of
150lbs); according to what I have read this might not be quite enough (%
3 or 150 = 4.5lbs), but she seems to be pretty thick... and I don't
want her to start getting fat.

At what point can a puppy start eating once per day? Up to now I have
been dividing her meals into three one lb packages.

Thanks

Ross

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: When is a pup no longer a pup?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:50 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Ross Senger" <rosssenger@...>
wrote:
>

> I have been feeding 2-3 lbs a day (gauging from her mothers
> weight of
> 150lbs); according to what I have read this might not be
> quite enough (%
> 3 or 150 = 4.5lbs), but she seems to be pretty thick... and
> I don't
> want her to start getting fat.

Don't worry about percentages of weights. You have been feeding her
long enough now that you can judge what her build is like. If she's
too heavy, feed less. To thin? Feed more. Those percentages are
just starting points. You are beyond starting points now. :)

> At what point can a puppy start eating once per day? Up to now
> I have
> been dividing her meals into three one lb packages.

I started feeding my Thor 2 meals a day at 12 weeks when he came to
live with me and all was ok. I still feed both my dogs 2 meals a
day just because thats the way I prefer. If I were you, I would go
to 2 meals for a couple of months then go to one if you wish. If
she starts getting the runs with one meal, go back to two for a
while longer.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: When is a pup no longer a pup?
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:56 pm ((PDT))

When you get a daily amount into her that doesn't cause loose stools
and you can stand listening to her whine in the AM that she's not
getting breakfast anymore <grin>.

On 7/16/07, Ross Senger <rosssenger@shaw.ca> wrote:

> At what point can a puppy start eating once per day? Up to now I have
> been dividing her meals into three one lb packages.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ross

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.saveourdogs.net
"Is that soap they're brainwashing you with environmentally safe?"

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Little odgs
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:36 pm ((PDT))

Hi Geraldine,

Glad to hear Brandy loves it too! It's super lean meat so very good
for them....

I was feeling bad cause he lost a tooth, but the vet, saint that he
is, said he didn't spot it either and he always checks his mouth
when we go in...

He gave me the tooth and it's odd, nice and clean on the outside but
you can tell the root is gone and decay inside.......

Carol, Charkee & Maggie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "geraldinebutterfield"
<gbutterflied@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Carol,
> Wow, 1 bad tooth in 9 years is darn good! I just bought some rabbit
> and Brandy LOVES it.
>
> geraldine
Carol, Charkee & Maggie

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9. not eating with her paws
Posted by: "Lyse Garant" lyse_garant@yahoo.com lyse_garant
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:25 pm ((PDT))

Christine & Halo;

Hi there, sounds like you're having a rough time. Isn't it just possible that this diet is not going to work for this dog? If my dog weren't enjoying this diet, let alone tolerate it, I wouldn't do it.
I know all you hard liners will disagree with me, but there's a time when one has to say, enough is enough. I'd give it another week at most.

Lyse

Lyse

---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. mucousy poop/bile vomits (was Re: Pork Neck Bones
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:25 pm ((PDT))

Hi Yassy,

I wonder if she might just need more time to adjust to lamb. Maybe
you could add it in more gradually. Start small and gradually work
up to larger amounts. Like Chris talks about (thanks, Chris! :-))
adding a small bit sometimes, then a little bit more, etc. Then
again, if you don't want to deal with it right now, you could give
her more time on raw and try it again later when her digestive system
is stronger.

Does she do well with other meats than lamb and chicken at this point?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:

> I am not sure if I should pull out lamb from feeding plan or not.
I was thinking to stick to half chicken half lamb for a while since
she seemed fine yesterday and obiously not today..and have to think
if I feed her again as meal or not.

Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: 80/10/10?//scale
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:27 pm ((PDT))

I bought a cheapie one at Target when I started raw, because I didn't
have much faith in my ability to eyeball the portions out. I stopped
using it after a few months when I relaxed a little. I tend to
complicate things unnecessarily, so, to justify my own neurotic
behavior, I will say this: I see no fault with using a scale if you are
so inclined. However, it's one step less in the process if you learn to
let it go.
-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12. starting new puppy on raw food
Posted by: "leyssartade" leyssartade@yahoo.com leyssartade
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:23 pm ((PDT))

Hi, I'm a triple newbie: to dog ownership, raw feeding, and this list.
I will be bringing home my Havanese puppy in 2 weeks, and want to start him on raw food.
He will be 10 weeks old and a little under 2 lbs. My questions are:
1. what pieces are appropriate for a puppy of that size/age? (chicken thighs? wings? backs
only?)
2. should I transition him from the breeder's diet (Royal Canin) or go straight to raw feeding?
3. does anyone know of a good raw pet food supplier in New Mexico, or have other
suggestions for suppliers?
Thanks in advance!
Jackie

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

13a. Re: WHat are sme other organ options besides liver?
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:40 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kaebruney" <kaebruney@...> wrote:
>
> Oka, my boys hat eliver.
> I mean HATE it.
>
>
> Kae
>

Kae,

As I discovered through this group a month ago, there are many ways
to present liver, but it's not worth getting worked up about.

My puppy (who HATED liver) now is a great fan, as well as my cat,
since I seared it a bit before giving it to them. Mine hated the
texture, and freezing/drying it wasn't helpful. A little frying,
(less each time,) brought them right around.

Let us know how you fare.

Linoleum

Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

14a. Re: supplement w/digestive enzymes?
Posted by: "Monica" mommyof2gals@comcast.net mommyof2gals
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:54 pm ((PDT))

Sorry for the delay in replying - everyone has been home these last
two days and computer time is at a premium LOL!

Thank you, THANK YOU, for all the helpful suggestions. I will try to
answer questions here and I also have a question based on your posts.

Many of you have suggested that pancreatitis may be the problem my
Loki has. I've done some reading since the suggestion and it sure
sounds like it to me as well (thanks for leading me in this
direction!!!!!)My vet is closed today, but I will call tomorrow to
see if she checked that in the blood work.

If the dog DOES have pancreatitis, how do I feed for that? Everything
I read says low protein, low fat. A pure protein diet doesn't seem to
work there. I'm sure others of you have had dogs with this condition -
how can you maintain a raw diet without being "high protein"??? I
really welcome suggestions as I deeply believe this is the way to
feed my babies but find the two theories conflicting.

Also, to answer the question asking if Loki has had distemper
vaccines - yes, he has. As a puppy, and once after that. Then I
stopped vaccinating (except rabies - law) and began titering the dog
instead. I am NOT fond of vaccines. So he was maybe 18mths at the
last distemper. Would a shot that old begin affecting him at 4yrs?

To answer the other questions:

> What breed of dog is he?
Keeshond

> How much does he weigh?
60lbs

> What is his overall appearance like = Too thin/too fat, glossy
> coat/dull coat, etc.?
His weight is right for his build, his coat looks as glossy as a kees
will ever be. He *looks* correct for his breed.

> What exactly do you feed him?
Its a variety. The staple is chicken quarters, although we rotate
pork neck bones, pork cuts, turkey, veal, lamb, chicken or beef
livers, turkey necks, heart, gizzards etc. as they come on sale. I
try to look for variety. He loves beef but gets the squirts as the
bone is not edible in the cuts I've offered (are any??) Loki needs
more bone than our other Kees (who has an iron gullet) to remain
regular so I do have to be careful. He will not eat fish of any kind
except canned mackeral (immediate liquid stools)and has only enjoyed
rabbit once but has refused since, so those are not fed.

> When?
Dinner time.

> How much at a meal?
Kees are prone to gaining weight easily (they are lazy dogs - bred t
guard barges), so we have to be very careful not to overfeed. We keep
meals at 3/4 to 1lb each, give or take (maybe a larger meal one
night, a smaller one the next...you know)

> What other items might he eat; food, treats, stuff he buries or
>finds in the yard or walks, or other?
Not much in treats. Some dehydrated chicken livers or homemade jerky
every so often. We live in a townhome so we have to walk him several
times a day (no yard)and we have never observed him eating on walks.

> Who else feeds him, besides you?
Hubby - although he always asks what to feed LOL!

> What changes may have happened just before or at the onset of the
> vomiting/loose stools?
It was a week before vacation so there was a lot of commotion which
I'm sure was stressful for the dogs - they definitely knew something
was up. There schedules were maintained. Nothing else unusual.

> Environmental = inside / outside?
See above

> Lifestyle?
See above

> Does he drink from puddles of water, ponds, lakes?
Nope.

> Swim in them?
Nope

> Was testing done for parasites such as Giardia, more than once?
I believe so - they test the stool right? Only the day of his
illness onset, however.

> Slippery Elm Bark Powder should help soothe his digestive system
>until you can pinpoint the problem;

Thank you, Giselle - I will look for that tomorrow when I have the
car.

And again, thank you EVERYONE who is helping me figure this out. He's
still so young, I am so afraid for him.

Monica and Loki
(and Tyr who feels fine plus 3 ornery cats...)

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

15a. Re: Fish Question....
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:22 pm ((PDT))

I got frozen smelts (ocean is cheaper,) and my cat and dog took to
them like ducks on a junebug.

: )
Lynne

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

16. only salmon?
Posted by: "Jessie" O_snobunnie_O@hotmail.com osnobunnieo
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:22 pm ((PDT))

I have a friend who started working at a fantastic vet's office when
she moved out of town. Ever since she started I've been envious and
wish I lived and worked where she does. Its a mixed practice with
some conventional medicine and some "alternative" medicine,
including a doctor who advocates raw diets.

Here's the catch - her idea of a raw diet as far as I can tell is
salmon and green beans. Yup, that's IT.

Now this friend recently adopted a Maine Coon cat from the doctor
who breeds (or used to?) them. She now has her on a diet of
salmon... and may add in beef or hamburger at some point if she can
convince herself its worth the trouble. As much as I've talked raw
with her (its not something she knew much about and is very
cheap/lazy when it comes to pet food) this is what she thinks is a
good diet for her cat. Not sure if she plans on switching over her
Beagle, but she might at some point. She also uses a supplement
called Whole Body Support.

Now... before I pass major judgement I thought I would ask. Does
there seem to be ANY logic behind this at all?? I mean, this woman
is a doctor and is advocating this diet to others??

I'm pretty sure I know what answers I can expect, but still thought
I'd toss it out there.

Jessie

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------