[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11823

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
From: temy1102

2a. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
From: Tina Berry
2b. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
From: Laurie Swanson

3a. Adequate variety?
From: diannem200400
3b. Re: Adequate variety?
From: carnesbill

4.1. Re: Puppy
From: Laura Atkinson
4.2. Re: Puppy
From: Pi

5a. Sterilizing Crate
From: michelleraia1
5b. Re: Sterilizing Crate
From: Goin8@aol.com
5c. Re: Sterilizing Crate
From: carnesbill
5d. Re: Sterilizing Crate
From: cypressbunny

6. Re: not eating with her paws (and Q about pre-packaged raw)
From: Lori Poirier

7a. Re: Bad meat - good?
From: Giselle

8a. Re: Digest Number 11819
From: Giselle

9a. Re: new and a corgi question
From: Heidi

10a. Re: Probably stupid question re: grass-fed meat
From: carnesbill

11a. Re: An Intro & A Question about Salmonella in Small Breed Pups
From: Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com

12a. Re: Question - to fast or not to fast? what is the answer...
From: cypressbunny
12b. Re: Question - to fast or not to fast? what is the answer...
From: carnesbill

13a. Re: New to group/raw feeding and a few ?'s
From: carnesbill

14a. Re: teething and diarrhea
From: carnesbill

15a. Question: 8 week old puppy (Sambuca) need advice on next step
From: Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com
15b. Re: Question: 8 week old puppy (Sambuca) need advice on next step
From: cypressbunny
15c. Re: Question: 8 week old puppy (Sambuca) need advice on next step
From: ginny wilken

16a. Re: Slippery Elm bark
From: ginny wilken

Messages
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1a. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
Posted by: "temy1102" tammy.a.jp@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:19 pm ((PDT))

Your dog sounds like a corgi supermodel. Grover went through a
similar weight gain, it felt very sudden and out of nowhere when one
day I decided to weigh her and found she had gained 4 pounds. I'm
sure the raw diet helped, but I also think it was just Grover's body
growing denser and more muscular, now that she's out of her leggy
adolescent period and putting on real adult muscle. I've noticed for
all my dogs that they start to get heavier around the 1.5 year mark.
Their weight at that time is what is their ideal weight is also. But
that's just what I've noticed personally.

Tammy & Grover (also a dobe supermodel.)

Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:20 pm ((PDT))

"But if she had tuck in tummy with waist curve etc,then,no worries needed??"

Correct - just like us; when we eat healthy, we lose fat, but gain muscle -
muscle weighs more than fat so you can't always go by the scale - you have
to by waistline and feeling their ribs.
--
Tina Berry
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: Dogs normally gain weight after being on raw diet a while and lo
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:05 pm ((PDT))

Hi Yassy,

Just a thought--scales are different and can be "off." Did you weigh
her at the same place previously? I know someone who recently took
their dog to the vet and was told the dog had lost a huge amount of
weight, they went through a bunch of tests, etc. and then found out the
scale wasn't accurate.

I have heard others mention this too, though--that they thought their
dogs looked like they'd lost weight, but they'd actually gained. I
wouldn't worry, but if you want to know for sure, just try to get an
accurate weight and double-check it again in a few weeks or so.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:

> I was shocked. She gained weight..

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Adequate variety?
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:20 pm ((PDT))

My dogs have been raw fed for 2 months now and I LOVE it. The dogs
think it's okay, too. But, the refrain "whole prey" keeps running
through my head. I gather that it is important to feed as much of a
whole animal, in terms of variety of parts, as possible. I don't
have access to game and I tend to feed what's most available and
affordable from the grocery or a Hispanic butcher who sells
wholesale. Thus, my guys get beef heart (at .49 a pound, you can't
beat it)three or more times a week. They get picnic pork, bone-in,
about twice a week. The remaining day(s) are "buffet," i.e.,
whatever I have or can splurge on..tongue, or some top sirloin, or
round steak. Once a week they have a bony meal like a rack of beef
ribs, with a half-pound or so of beef liver or kidney. This does not
seem like much variety to me. Also, I wonder if there is enough
edible bone in this "menu plan." I will be breeding my girl pretty
soon and want to be sure her nutrition is up to snuff. BTW, I gave
up on chicken..one dog is allergic to poultry, one throws up EVERY
time he eats it and will not reconsume it, and the other two don't
like it but will eat it if they're really hungry. Didn't seem worth
the pain.

Do you long-time raw feeders consider this diet adequate over the
long haul, especially for a bred bitch? If not, what would be most
important to add? Thanks for any advice!

Dianne M.

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Adequate variety?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:45 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "diannem200400" <diannem200400@...>
wrote:

> Do you long-time raw feeders consider this diet adequate over the
> long haul, especially for a bred bitch? If not, what would be most
> important to add?

Liver and other organs. For nutritional purposes, heart is not an
organ but a muscle, as is tongue. Kidneys are probably the 2nd best
organ.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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4.1. Re: Puppy
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:23 pm ((PDT))

Is it possible that he's simply getting too much food in a single meal
to handle? Try cutting back at each meal and adding a third snack
sized meal and see if that helps. Or cut off the excessive fat, like
the "tail" and see if that helps.

On 7/18/07, Anna Labriola <taggartgalt@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi, all.
>
> I searched the archives quite a bit but still aren't sure what to do.
> I am feeding my doberman puppy(32 pounds, 4 months old tomorrow) whole
> chicken, cut into quarters. Currently, he's eating half a chicken a
> day in two meals(a quarter a meal.) This is about 2 pounds total a day
> but varies depending on the chicken. He's not an overeater. He does
> occasionally leave food in the cage.
>
> My question is that he's been eating raw for what will be three weeks
> on Saturday and he's still having very soft stool. It's too soft to
> pick up all together with a bag. I would say that probably half to
> three quarters of his stool is this soft. Normal? Hints?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Anna and Khan
--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.saveourdogs.net
"Is that soap they're brainwashing you with environmentally safe?"

Messages in this topic (33)
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4.2. Re: Puppy
Posted by: "Pi" scribblekitten@yahoo.com scribblekitten
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:44 pm ((PDT))

Maybe you could try going to three meals a day for a while and see if it
improves?

-Anna +Pi +SunshineKitty

Anna Labriola wrote:
>
>
> My question is that he's been eating raw for what will be three weeks
> on Saturday and he's still having very soft stool. It's too soft to
> pick up all together with a bag. I would say that probably half to
> three quarters of his stool is this soft. Normal? Hints?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Anna and Khan
>
>

Messages in this topic (33)
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5a. Sterilizing Crate
Posted by: "michelleraia1" michelleraia1@yahoo.com michelleraia1
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:05 pm ((PDT))

I feed my puppy his raw meaty bones in his crate...He drags them out of
the bowl and around the crate before eating them....What, if anything,
should I use that is safe to sterilize the crate after he eats?

Also, is it a problem that he is walking around on the meat, then
running around in the office, jumping on the couch, etc.

Just checking.

Michelle

Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: Sterilizing Crate
Posted by: "Goin8@aol.com" Goin8@aol.com menoebs
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:37 pm ((PDT))

I dont think you have anything to worry about. I take my trays out and
bleach them at least 3 times a week anyways so eating in their crates wont hurt
anything. As for walking around on it, its no different then K****e and if they
stepped on that. See what others say about this. Im still at the clorox clean
up everything stage myself but most just say use vinegar and water to clean
up!

Audrey Johnson

"My Goal in Life is to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am!"

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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5c. Re: Sterilizing Crate
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:47 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "michelleraia1"
<michelleraia1@...> wrote:
>
> What, if anything,
> should I use that is safe to sterilize the crate after he eats?

Water or soapy water. My 2 Great Danes eat wherever they want which
is usually somewhere on a carpet. They do a good job of cleaning up
after themselves and I have never cleaned any of their eating
places. If your dog licks up all the juices, I wouldn't worry about
cleaning it at all.

> Also, is it a problem that he is walking around on the meat, then
> running around in the office, jumping on the couch, etc.

I guess it depends if he is making a mess. If not, don't worry
about it. My dogs don't walk around on their meat so I can't be
much help here.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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5d. Re: Sterilizing Crate
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:02 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Goin8@... wrote:
>
> Im still at the clorox clean
> up everything stage myself but most just say use vinegar and water
to clean
> up!

*** If you must try to sterilize things, vinegar followed by hydrogen
peroxide outperforms almost all other disinfectants, including bleach.
With the added advantage that they leave no harmful residues.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (4)
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6. Re: not eating with her paws (and Q about pre-packaged raw)
Posted by: "Lori Poirier" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:55 pm ((PDT))

I'm a home-cooked-to-raw-convert, not a kibble-convert. I guess because kibble has never been a major part of my dog's diet, I am not "kibble-phobic."

RE: You wrote in response to discussion re the potential virtue of kibble in this particular dog's experience:

Oh, I didn't realize that was what it was about. I though the problem was that the dog didn't like raw, and was glaring at her owner, and the husband didn't seem too happy with how things were going. She described the past kibble diet, and other details, so we would understand the whole picture. If the discussion was about the potential virtue of kibble, I guess I missed it. Sorry. I didn't read any posts about returning to kibble.

Except yours.

RE MY COMMENT: "I am not knowledgeable enough to suggest specific "half-way" measures or feeding to help transition her to raw, without a full-blown
declaration of World War Three..."

AND YOUR RESPONSE: Perhaps I am mistaken but "World War Three" strikes me as a not very oblique reference to kibble, given the previous posts to this topic.
How nice to be proven wrong.
Chris O

Again, HUH? ....not even on my radar. WWIII reference was about the glaring dog, the not-too-happy husband, etc. I guess since Kibble has never been an important part of my life, I don't see hidden kibble references everywhere. (Kinda like Elvis sightings...)

"Half-way" measures referred to possible raw concocttions, partially seared meats, etc., which have been suggested by others on this list, stuff I don't know much about, as my dog just eats what I feed him, and seems happy.

I was even thinking some of those pre-made raw mixtures might be good half-way measures. I was just scared to say so, since I think on this list those are considered bad, too...and I am too new to understand all the rules.

Lori

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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7a. Re: Bad meat - good?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:23 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Erica!
My take on this is that the burying or hiding aspect of this scenario
is because of the dog's instinct to 'save some for later', a survival
trait. If there's more food than can be eaten at once, tomorrow, or
next week, food may be more scarce.

A dog's savoring of the ripe, gamey or putrid odors of buried/saved
meats I ascribe to their being a totally different species from us who
revel in their scenting abilities. How can we really know exactly what
they smell?

The alleged better digestibility of gamey, ripe or putrid meat? Dunno.
Surely, if dogs needed their food to be 'aged' for optimal digestion,
wouldn't we see a dramatic improvement in the health of those dogs who
do this?

My dog will eat gamey meat, but doesn't 'hold out' for it. Nor do I
feed her out of doors. If she goes hunting and catches her own rabbit,
she will eat part or most of it, but will leave the rest. She won't
bury it, nor will she go back to it to finish it off. I generally bury
the parts if I find them in the yard, but she never digs them up after
I do.

IME, if a dog leaves food or buries it after a meal, they're getting
too much at a meal, or being fed too often. Maybe the meat is not
preferred, and aging improves the scent? I always watch my dogs eat,
whether its just one dog or six. I don't like stinky surprises, myself.

If this fellow was "debunking" the raw feeding movement, then was he
advocating a new craze, feeding putrid meat? ; )
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I just read an unusual article from a guy that was trying to debunk
> the raw feeding "craze" (as he called it). He suggested that raw meat
> was difficult for a dog (and wolf) to digest. <snip>
But, should I let him keep his
> little underground locker in full use?
> I don't know, but it is an interesting concept to explore...
> What are your thoughts?
> Erica
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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8a. Re: Digest Number 11819
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:01 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Lynda!
I can, and do, buy gizzards with/without hearts to feed as
meat. Its not a large part of the diet, but I consider them part and
parcel of the 'feed variety' dictum.

I also use them as treats, training or otherwise, cut up in tiny bits
and raw, or dehydrated lightly in the oven.

Wiki says; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gizzard
Some birds do swallow stones and grit, to facilitate digestion. But
chicken gizzards are cut open and cleaned out during processing.
Pretty much they *are sacks, they are technically stomachs.
btw, I don't eat gizzards, but do like liver.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jerey

> **Gizzards are sacks that hold rocks.**
>
>
> Say, what? I have always loved chicken gizzards myself, and all 3 of
my cats
> love them. (We all love liver, too--I know, all weird people!) I
have never
> found any rocks in the gizzards I have eaten. :)
>
> Since chicken hearts and gizzards, packaged together and mostly
gizzards,
> were the only way I could lay hold of heart at all during the 1st
two months I
> was raw feeding (FINALLY connected with beef hearts at a farmers'
market!), my
> cats probably ate more gizzards than anything else in their early
days on
> this diet, and they seemed to have gained weight and gotten shiny
coats while
> doing it!
>
> Lynda

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9a. Re: new and a corgi question
Posted by: "Heidi" troopob@yahoo.com troopob
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:12 pm ((PDT))

> Right now, on average, I'd say he gets 4 days of chicken, one of
organ meats, one of pork,
> and one of veggies. (I know there's some disagreement about veggies,
but for now, it's part

Joan,
****** I don't feed any veggies unless I just "happen" to drop a piece
of lettuce on the kitchen floor. I figured with what the
grains/vegetable matter did to them before, why go back or have the
problems I was having?

>****** I also just feed a little organ(I snip a little bit, teaspoon
size, of chicken liver or beef kidney) every day or every other day.
If I feed too much at once they get the squirts. I feed chicken, pork,
turkey, venison, elk, fish - whatever I can afford or mooch out of
someone's freezer. I haven't fed much beef as it's too expensive.

Good luck,
Heidi

Messages in this topic (6)
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10a. Re: Probably stupid question re: grass-fed meat
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:14 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, ginny wilken <gwilken@...> wrote:
>
> So, presumably, that could include conventional meat producers who
> insist their product is wholesome, no?

ANYONE who will make money based on a decision you will make, even
vets who use unproven and unconventional "medicine".

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (15)
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11a. Re: An Intro & A Question about Salmonella in Small Breed Pups
Posted by: "Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com" Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com irishcateyes1
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:14 pm ((PDT))

Oh my God! How horrible! How could anyone do such a thing???!! That just
breaks my heart. I am so sorry, Pamela!!

Tamatha



In a message dated 7/18/2007 3:46:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pet.wellness@yahoo.com writes:

I'm glad you found what you need. Please keep us posted on how it
goes. In the meantime, let me express my sympathy once again. I lost
my first dog this way when a neighbor threw a poisoned bone into the
yard with the deliberate intention of killing her. Death by poisoning
is an extremely ugly way to go. Pamela

Any dog can teach a child responsibility and commitment.

A German Shepherd Dog will show the child the meaning
of dedication.

"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life,
his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true, to the last beat of
his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." --Unknown

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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12a. Re: Question - to fast or not to fast? what is the answer...
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:21 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kaebruney" <kaebruney@...> wrote:
>
> So, what's the thought on fasting raw fed dogs?

*** I agree with Chris. It isn't that I fast the dogs, it is that I
feed huge meals infrequently. This is often called the gorge and
fast model, and it is how wolves eat in the wild. They gorge after a
successful hunt, and then do not eat for several days until they are
hungry enough to hunt again.

> What are the benefits?

*** Better mental and physical exercise, better dental health,
calmer more satisfied dogs that don't freak out at dinner time every
day (cause there isn't a dinner every day). Dogs that aren't
obsessed about food. Dogs that are eating the way their ancestors
ate for a million years--the way their systems are designed to
function.

> If you do fast, how often do yu do it and is it on a particular
day?
> i.e - following their fish meal or organ meal, etc.

*** It is random. They fast after big meals, for however many days
it takes until they are hungry again.

> Also, is it a true fasting day (like no food at all) or can I make
it
> a rec bone day?

*** Up to you, but I'd advise against wreck bones as they increase
the possibility of damaged teeth.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (4)
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12b. Re: Question - to fast or not to fast? what is the answer...
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:23 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kaebruney" <kaebruney@...> wrote:
>
> So, what's the thought on fasting raw fed dogs?

I think its a stretch to justify it.

> What are the benefits?

None I can find.

I agree that probably in the wild that wolves or wild dogs will not
eat avery day but I don't think it's by choice. I can't see a wild
carnivore passing by food just because he ate yesterday. I think
they eat as much as they can when they can find it.

> Also, is it a true fasting day (like no food at all) or can I
> make it
> a rec bone day?

You can do whatever you want but I don't recommend a rec bone
anytime.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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13a. Re: New to group/raw feeding and a few ?'s
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:44 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "lou_losgatos" <lchandler@...>
wrote:
>
> * are digestive enzymes necessary?

No, it's built into the meat.

> * where do I get raw meaty bones small enough for my dachshunds?
> (10 & 13 lbs) Do I ask the butcher to cut smaller pieces for me?

You will probably be surprised at how large of pieces they can
handle. One big mistake newbies make is feeding too small of pieces.

> * do the dogs need to eat only 1 protein source per week, or is that
> just the recommened way to get them started on a raw food diet?

It's just to get them started. I often feed multiple protein sources
in a meal.

If you haven't already done so, check out my web page at

http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm and Read the book "Work
Wonders" by Dr. Tom Lonsdale. You can find it at

http://www.rawmeatybones.com and you can download it in PDF format for
free at the same location.

A few informative web sites are:
http://rawfeddogs.net/

--- be sure and check the recipes page.
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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14a. Re: teething and diarrhea
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:45 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jen S" <jennilist@...> wrote:
>
> Any suggestions on what I can
> give him to harden it up some?

I suggest feeding chicken about half his meals. Feed other things
other times.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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15a. Question: 8 week old puppy (Sambuca) need advice on next step
Posted by: "Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com" Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com irishcateyes1
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:45 pm ((PDT))

Okay, Sambuca is 17 lbs @ 8 weeks old. I have been feeding him raw since
Sunday the 15th right after we got him. I have been feeding him chicken quarters
twice a day, one @ 7 am and the other @ 5:30-6 pm every day. Sometimes I
would add gizzards (which now I know has no nutritional value so once these are
gone that is it). BTW, the chicken quarters usually had some nice organ meat
attached to the larger portions.

If I decided to continue feeding chicken quarters as like a staple for
awhile, would this be okay? Or is that too boney for every day. If so, should I
add boneless chicken breasts or something else?

Also, have a package of turkey necks. Should I wait a few weeks or is it
okay to intorduce into the diet now? Are they good for an 8 week old?

One last question (the main reson I emailed--lol--see how backwards I am :)
) The leg quarters smelled bad since I first opened the bag but since I
have heard it didn't matter I have been giving them to him with no problems. But
I have since frozen the leftovers b/c the smell would have gotten worse in
the fridge. SO, one I am thinking if I need to just throw them out or just thaw
later on and then can still be safely fed?

**I have purchased some whole fryers (chicken) and thought since I have no
quarters in fridge that tomorrow morning I would give him one of these. Now,
should I give him the whole thing and take it away after he has eaten about 13
ounces or so? Or should I cut it into quarters? Any parts he shouldn't get at
8 weeks? What is the best way to slice this chicken into 4 quarter pieces?

Thanks!

Tamatha




Any dog can teach a child responsibility and commitment.

A German Shepherd Dog will show the child the meaning
of dedication.

"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life,
his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true, to the last beat of
his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." --Unknown

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

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Messages in this topic (3)
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15b. Re: Question: 8 week old puppy (Sambuca) need advice on next step
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:59 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Hllywoodcaper7@... wrote:
>
> Okay, Sambuca is 17 lbs @ 8 weeks old.
> I have been feeding him twice a day

*** I would feed a puppy that young at least 3 times a day, or at
least leave food available for a couple of hours at each twice daily
feeding.

Sometimes I
> would add gizzards (which now I know has no nutritional value so
once these are
> gone that is it).

*** They don't lack nutritional value, they just don't have the
vitamin-packed punch of other organs like heart, kidney, and liver.
If they provide chewing exercise for a small puppy, that's a benefit
right there.

> Or is that too boney for every day. If so, should I
> add boneless chicken breasts or something else?

*** I think chicken quarters are too bony. Why not feed whole
chickens? You can add meatymeat of whatever flavor to meat up a bony
meal.

> Also, have a package of turkey necks. Should I wait a few weeks
or is it
> okay to intorduce into the diet now? Are they good for an 8 week
old?

*** They too are bony, even more so than chicken quarters, but they
should be good chewing exercise for a wee pupster. I feed puppies
all sorts of variety right off the bat, but then, I am prepared to
deal with the consequences, if any. If a little loose stool from too
much variety too soon is going to panic you, wait a week or so
before introducing a new kind of meat.

> SO, one I am thinking if I need to just throw them out or just
thaw
> later on and then can still be safely fed?

*** For an adult dog that was an experienced raw eater, I would say
feed them, but for a brand new puppy, I would say be on the safe
side and throw them out.

> Now,
> should I give him the whole thing and take it away after he has
eaten about 13
> ounces or so?

*** Personally, I would let him eat all he wants, and when he is
done pick it up and stick it in the fridge until the next meal. I
would not take food away from a puppy and not return it. I do
practice taking food and giving it back to establish my dominant
status in the pack (accompanied by much praise), but simply taking
the food away may lead to a pup that defends his food aggressively.

Or should I cut it into quarters? Any parts he shouldn't get at
> 8 weeks? What is the best way to slice this chicken into 4
quarter pieces?

*** There are no parts he shouldn't have. If you must cut it up, the
easiest way is to cut it into 6 pieces. Cut the legs off at the hip
joints, cut the wings off at the shoulder joints and try to include
as much breast meat as possible. You can then break the back off the
breast portion at the vertebra that isn't fused, just below the
ribs. Cutting through bone leaves sharp edges that may be dangerous
to you and to the pup.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (3)
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15c. Re: Question: 8 week old puppy (Sambuca) need advice on next step
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:59 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 18, 2007, at 8:21 PM, Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com wrote:
> Sometimes I
> would add gizzards (which now I know has no nutritional value so
> once these are
> gone that is it).

I'm sorry to take up bandwidth with this, but I think maybe someone
should point out that gizzards are perfectly fine muscle meat. This
is far from "no nutritional value". They are not glands or organs,
really, so don't have any of those "special" features, but they are
still fine food, along with the rest of the darn chicken, from time
to time.

Many of these posts make it sound as if they should be thrown away.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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16a. Re: Slippery Elm bark
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:45 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 18, 2007, at 3:13 PM, Yasuko herron wrote:

>> You can repeat this at every meal until the situation improves.
>
> Hi,Ginny. I think powder sounds convenient to me,and since Gisell
> put link on her posting,I will see about getting it if things still
> happens during intriducing new protin source in the future again.
>
> So,you give it until you see firm up poo?I did not understand
> when you said you give cream or broth to dog if it did not
> improve.Cream is heavy cream,you mean?

What I said was that if the dog is not eating solid food for one
reason or another, that one may mix the slippery elm powder in some
broth or cream to get it into the dog. You should only use it until
you see an improvement in stools. Then stop, to see if it will
continue good on its own.
>

> And..I like to ask, diarrhea is watery yellowish or greenish poo
> with no solid and sometimes with mucous,and cannot control, correct?

Color doesn't matter, but it is very watery and uncontrollable, even
explosive. It may contain solid bits.
>
> And if dogs just goes once a day with such poo,still consider
> diarrhea although not going bunch of time with watery /loose poo?
>
> In my case, mostlikely,she goes poo once a day and eithger loose
> stoool like alfread sauce consistency;rather thick than watery
> pesto,or watery poo and more like pesto if her poop was not firm
> ones,but just go once a day. Is this still considered diarrhea?
> Sometimes,head is firm and end is wet.I do not worry about end wet
> poo much though.

No, this is loose stool, but not uncontrollable diarrhea
>
> If she still do poo like shapeless poo longer than 3 days plus,do
> I need to get her vet check?
>
> Or just throw in bones to firm up the poo and no worries?

Right!
>
> I can imagine it will be a problems if you keep seeing the watery
> poo longer than 2 days or so but not too sure if it had shape but
> still softer side.Should I get alarmed if seeing continued long
> period of time than 3 days with soft but still have shape poo?
>
> I am not quite too sure when I should get alarmed at this point.

Don't get alarmed at all. Correct the diet in the direction it needs,
a little at a time so as not to go too far the other direction.

> ps: by the way,did you know you named your dog tomo;the friend/
> together,in Japanese?
> Good name.

Mochiron wa yo. Tomochan wa Nihongo wo yoku wakatte, toreningu no
meirei ga subete nihongo desu.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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