[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11835

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: New Puppy, New to rawfeeding, Help!
From: brenda

2a. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
From: lmustoe

3a. Re: Raw Feeding Books
From: Boxer Lover
3b. Re: Raw Feeding Books
From: magolin0328

4a. Re: Update :) Re: Cheap meat sources, and an egg question
From: Casey Post

5a. Re: Question about new adopted cat...
From: Cindy Marabito

6.1. itchy skin
From: LaUrA
6.2. Re: itchy skin
From: Giselle
6.3. Re: itchy skin
From: Morledzep@aol.com

7a. missing stuff in diet
From: emdeefa
7b. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: Morledzep@aol.com

8a. Re: fish bones
From: delcaste
8b. Re: fish bones
From: Morledzep@aol.com
8c. Re: fish bones
From: Charles Kline

9. Re: Digest Number 11834
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

10a. Re: Canine Nutrition
From: meg_helmes
10b. Re: Canine Nutrition
From: merril Woolf
10c. Re: Canine Nutrition
From: Morledzep@aol.com

11a. Re: Fly Issues
From: delcaste

12a. Re: Feeding once a day
From: Morledzep@aol.com

13a. Re: Looking for a raw co-op
From: Morledzep@aol.com

14a. Re: Mange and protecting from it
From: Morledzep@aol.com

15a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma
From: Morledzep@aol.com

16. mixign proteins
From: Kellie Verrelli

17. Where to find fish
From: millser25

Messages
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1a. Re: New Puppy, New to rawfeeding, Help!
Posted by: "brenda" brendanbreeze@hotmail.com breezenlexi
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:14 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Ann" <maryanndiaz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mary Ann - grats on the new puppy. You will have a great time
with raw feeding. There are lots of very experienced people on here
that can answer all your questions and keep you sane while you are
learning. Fear tends to slow down our forward momentum and you found
the perfect place to remove any doubts and fears. Knowldege and asking
every question you can think of. I just want to add my 2 cents here.
You really only need a vet in the case of an emergency. I think most
people here also do not vaccinate. There is a sister list called Truth
about vaccines. You might want to join that group also and research.
You will really save yourself alot of heartache and money by doing so.
Anyway, good luck with your new pup. Brenda
>
> I am very very new to raw feeding! I just got a new puppy, taking her
> to the vet on monday but I'm guessing she is no older than 12-16
> weeks. -Mary Ann-
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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2a. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
Posted by: "lmustoe" lmustoe@yahoo.co.uk lmustoe
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:15 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Lee,
>
> She should be fed at least 3 if not 4 times a day. What do you mean
she
> can't manage this on raw????
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> Hi Sandee
Thank you for your reply,
I might be feeding her to much because when i try and feed her the 4th
meal in the evening she does not want to eat it and just leaves it.
I just thought that because raw is so nutritous that she might not need
that much? Thats why i thought i'd ask so i didnt get it wrong.Please
let me know what you think.
Lee
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "Boxer Lover" boxer.love@yahoo.com boxer.love
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:15 pm ((PDT))

Just anything more I can learn to give my dogs the best possible. I can't nessasaraly throw each of my dogs a whole carcus each meal so I want to make sure I'm giving them everything they need. Also some meats are quite pricey around me (or not available) so that limits the veriaty. I'm also concerned about the correct amount. I'm realizing the amount is a geussing game, but it's been harder to figure out than I thought it would be.

Below is what each of my dogs are being fed. Any coments would be appriciated.

Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday-Meaty Chicken Bones
Monday-Beef Heart
Wednesday-Beef Liver
Friday-Beef Kidney

I used to feed twice a day, but have just recently changed to once per day (2 weeks ago). Feeding once a day has made my finiky eater finish all his food. I have two dogs that put on weight easier than the other two. One eats her food within seconds and I've been able to take her excess weight off since switching to raw (5 months ago). Since switching to once a day meals, she is looking too thin. The other eats his food quickly too. He used to maintain his weight before being neutered, but afterward he put on quite a bit. I'm slowly taking it off, but I don't want him too thin either.

The other two I have a harder time keeping weight on them. They are both extremely active and maintaining their weight is important since they travel quite a bit to shows. One is a male, not quite 2 yet and a finiky eater. The other, a female, will eat almost anything and eats fast. She can pack it on fast and then take it back off fast.

Stephanie

----- Original Message ----
From: Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 12:51:20 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Raw Feeding Books

Nope! Haven't seen any yet that feed according to species. Is there
something specific you are looking for?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Boxer Lover" <boxer.love@yahoo. com>

> Are there any books you can recommend on raw feeding? I have "Raw Meaty
Bones" by Tom Lonsdale, but I would like to read more. Any suggestions
would be appreciated.

____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

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Messages in this topic (14)
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3b. Re: Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "magolin0328" maggie.taylor@artlover.com magolin0328
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:51 pm ((PDT))

Chicken and pork are the two most used meats in Diesel's diet.
They're cheap and easy to come by.

I buy whole chickens that come with the nice little package of
innards. I open the little bag and dump them back inside the bird so
he can eat them when he gets there.

For pork I nearly always buy pork shoulder roasts. He's supposed to
eat somewhere around a pound a day based on the 2-3% of his ideal body
weight (he's about 45lbs) formula. He gets a little over a week of
boneless meals from that and then a meal or two with a lot of bone.

I rarely feed him entire organ meals. I just offer a piece of liver
and/or kidney a couple times a week if he's eating something other
than chicken.

He also gets duck, salmon, beef, lamb and goat when its on sale. He
doesn't like rabbit so I don't give that, but I give him pretty much
anything else I find.

I found a local supplier that gets some of the more unusual parts, so
he gets beef trachea's which he LOVES, beef heart, etc. And there's
another one that's a 3 hour drive from me that I'm going to order a
bunch of stuff from soon and go pick it up.

I don't really measure anything before giving it to him. He was a
shelter dog and I switched him as soon as I got him, but he was kibble
fed for the first 2 years of his life. He had kind of odd eating
habits when I first got him either refusing to eat various things or
trying to inhale them, but after a couple months he figured things out
and now eats normally. Sometimes he eats just the pound he ought to,
sometimes he eats more and sometimes less. He seems to stay at a
perfectly fine weight if I just leave things up to him.

For pretty much everything I feed him, I operate on the thought that
he knows how much he needs. If he chooses not to eat something on a
given day, I just pick it up and put it back in the fridge and bring
it out the next day.

What's your definition of 'too thin'? You ought to be able to feel
their ribs if you run their hand over them. If they actually get too
thin just increase the amount of food. Some dogs will need more than
others.

To slow a dog down if they're eating too fast give them huge pieces of
meat. Give each dog a whole chicken or half a chicken to get them to
slow down.

Maggie
Diesel, SDIT

Messages in this topic (14)
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4a. Re: Update :) Re: Cheap meat sources, and an egg question
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:26 pm ((PDT))

>>Today, I
> got two LARGE boxes of scraps and a HUGE garbage bag full!!! I'm
> thrilled as this should get us through these rough times. Our
> neighbours are great!!!!

Oh Courtenay, great news! May blessings like this continue to find you!

Casey

Messages in this topic (18)
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5a. Re: Question about new adopted cat...
Posted by: "Cindy Marabito" doggirl1@earthlink.net rowdycowgirl50
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:16 pm ((PDT))

Thanks so much, but I only wish the cats were as enthusiastic about
their raw as the dogs. I do have one little particular chow gentleman
who can be rather picky, but two pit bulls who're very good at plate
cleaning and two rescue pups who'll literally eat anything. They were
rescued from being abandoned in the woods at just a couple of weeks,
so they really enjoy a good nutritious meal. Cats aren't like that,
I've noticed. Cindy

Messages in this topic (3)
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6.1. itchy skin
Posted by: "LaUrA" laurasue17@hotmail.com angel_2_u_23
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

What could we add to our dogs diet to help with their itchy skin?
Any suggestions would be great, thank you!

Laura
Proud Mommy to Miss Samantha (9 years old going on 16! LOL!!) and step mom to Heather -17, Nikki - 14 and Michelle - 8 - the most beautiful girls in the world!!!!!
Mom to furbabies: Snoopy (male - neutered - 10 month old - pit mix - 60lbs.) and Zoey (super smart hearing impaired female - spayed - 6 month old - pit mix - approx. 40lbs.)

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Messages in this topic (40)
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6.2. Re: itchy skin
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:37 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Laura!
What exactly are you feeding now?
Are they all equally itchy?
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> What could we add to our dogs diet to help with their itchy skin?
> Any suggestions would be great, thank you!
>
> Laura
> Proud Mommy to Miss Samantha (9 years old going on 16! LOL!!) and
step mom to Heather -17, Nikki - 14 and Michelle - 8 - the most
beautiful girls in the world!!!!!
> Mom to furbabies: Snoopy (male - neutered - 10 month old - pit mix
- 60lbs.) and Zoey (super smart hearing impaired female - spayed - 6
month old - pit mix - approx. 40lbs.)

Messages in this topic (40)
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6.3. Re: itchy skin
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:28 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/23/2007 1:17:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,
laurasue17@hotmail.com writes:

What could we add to our dogs diet to help with their itchy skin?
Any suggestions would be great, thank you!

Laura,

Usually when my dogs start itching it's because of dry skin.. we add fattier
meats, salmon oil and eggs in this case.

Be sure you know the source of the itching, fleas, ticks and other creatures
need other treatment, salmon oil and a fattier diet won't make any difference
in that case.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (40)
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7a. missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "emdeefa" mdevlin@aisle10.net emdeefa
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:47 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

so lately I have been feeding chicken theighs and chicken liver twice
a day. My puppy is around 24lbs, so I have been feeding right around a
pound a day, Usually it ends up being 1 theigh in the morning, and 1
at night with 1 liver with each meal. Also, sometimes in the morning I
will throw in a raw egg.

Aside from trying to find better deals on food, or throwing in some
variety to keep things interesting, and I missing anything important?
I am going to start throwing in some fish oil too, but other than
that, am I missing anything?

Thanks
Mike

Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:42 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/23/2007 2:49:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mdevlin@aisle10.net writes:

Aside from trying to find better deals on food, or throwing in some
variety to keep things interesting, and I missing anything important?
I am going to start throwing in some fish oil too, but other than
that, am I missing anything?

Mike,

Chicken thighs with livers are NOT adequate nutrition. I know they are cheap
and easy to find in the grocery stores. And therefore you may feed them more
often than most other things. Believe me, i understand being on a budget.

BUT.. you NEED more variety, more body parts, MORE appropriate types of meat
(chicken is not the most species appropriate meat you can buy in a grocery
store). Pork roasts, picnics, cushion meat, shoulder butt roasts, spare ribs..
etc. are cheap or at the very least not very expensive in most grocery stores,
and even less expensive in ethnic markets (i can routinely go to the local
hispanic grocery stores and get whole pork picnics for less than $1 lb. and often
far less)

kidneys, livers, spleens, hearts from pigs, cows, lambs and goats are all
EXCELLENT sources of organ meats, and are often very inexpensive in ethnic
grocery stores. Liver should NEVER be the only organ you're feeding.

watch the grocery store sales, here is a website for checking major chain
grocery store ads every week:

_http://www.sundaysaver.com/#3_ (http://www.sundaysaver.com/#3)

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: fish bones
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:47 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
>
> Felicia Kost <saphiradane@> wrote:
> >
> > Are whole thawd fish safe, what about the sharp bones? .
>
All things being equal, whole is the best way to feed any fish.
Chris O

Hello, I have a question for you (again). I was given some fresh
water fish, Chiclid and Blue Gill Bass, and was wondering if the
bones are ok to feed along with the head? I just started with the raw
diet so I"M the apprehensive one here. The pigglets I have will gulp
this food and I'm scared it might be too much for them (the pugs, I
think the Pittie pup can handle a fish). BTW, I posted on Freecycle
for freezer burnt meat or fish and got these. They weren't frozen
they had been caught the day before and the guy's wife wouldn't help
him clean them so...I got 'em.

Silvina and the pugs

Messages in this topic (7)
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8b. Re: fish bones
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:24 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/23/2007 8:22:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
saphiradane@yahoo.com writes:

Are whole thawd fish safe, what about the sharp bones? Would a whole fish
count for the organ meat.Thanks for any advice

***whole fish is whole prey.. but it is NOT a substitute for organ meats.

and there is no problem with fish bones, as long as they are NOT cooked, they
are not sharp or dangerous until heat changes them into needles.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (7)
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8c. Re: fish bones
Posted by: "Charles Kline" ckline@rightcode.net roguecfm
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:35 pm ((PDT))

My pugs have no problem with whole fish, bone, guts, head... the
whole deal
- Charles

On Jul 23, 2007, at 7:24 PM, Morledzep@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 7/23/2007 8:22:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> saphiradane@yahoo.com writes:
>
> Are whole thawd fish safe, what about the sharp bones? Would a
> whole fish
> count for the organ meat.Thanks for any advice
>
> ***whole fish is whole prey.. but it is NOT a substitute for organ
> meats.
>
> and there is no problem with fish bones, as long as they are NOT
> cooked, they
> are not sharp or dangerous until heat changes them into needles.
>
> Catherine R.
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-
> new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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9. Re: Digest Number 11834
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:47 pm ((PDT))

i never seen a wild animal actually eating the fur of the prey...
or maybe i'm just wrong?

****
You are wrong. :) I have seen my cat eat the whole mouse, fur, skin, bones
and all. Quickly and happily.

Lynda

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Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: Canine Nutrition
Posted by: "meg_helmes" mhelmes@gmail.com meg_helmes
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:48 pm ((PDT))

Several Amur tigers I worked with were fed whole, feathered chickens
are enrichment, and they refused to eat the feathers. We all got the
biggest kick out of watching them licking all of the feathers off
before they would eat them - especially as their sandpaper tongues
would end up covered in feathers. They would huff and puff and wipe at
their tongues trying to get them off.

~Meg (& Ruby)

> i thought tha dogs/cats pluck off the feathers, fur, and hair of the
> prey? i never seen a wild animal actually eating the fur of the
prey...
> or maybe i'm just wrong?
>
> #### I don't think a Wolf would be able to skin a rabbit.
> Killed...chomp, bite..swallow, gone.
>
> A huge ungulate ...they rip open the stomach and go to town. Some
of the
> fur would be eaten...some not. It would vary on the kill.
>
> You just haven't seen enough Nature programs is all.. ;-))
>
> Chia & Ricco
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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10b. Re: Canine Nutrition
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:12 pm ((PDT))

> i thought tha dogs/cats pluck off the feathers, fur, and hair of the
> prey? i never seen a wild animal actually eating the fur of the prey...
> or maybe i'm just wrong?
>

My dogs don't like feathers, but they eat any hide/fur on the whole animals they eat.
They eat the whole thing actually depending on the size of the critter. Smaller animals are
fully consumed with nothing left - nothing.
When they get larger animals, they will sometimes leave a long bone or mandible or scull.
Sometimes nothing at all. THe hide is always eaten. They do spit out feathers though.

Merril

Messages in this topic (9)
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10c. Re: Canine Nutrition
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:55 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/23/2007 3:56:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com writes:

I thought dogs can eat somewhat of vegetables and fruits?(most of the
times meat/bones, but sometimes some greens?) cooking vegetables may
make it easier for them to digest it, i thought... so is all veggies and
fruits to be avoided? surely they can't all be poisonous to dogs and
cats.

****Dogs are opportunists.. they will eat what is handed to them, and what
they can scavenge from time to time. Veggies in general are not poisonous to
dogs, but some can cause allergic reactions or tummy upset.
This is also a training issue, some folks train their dogs to eat pieces of
carrots or fruit as "treats". Some dogs, like my big wolfdog, Simba, think
they need to eat what "mom" is eating.. and will gladly eat anything you hand
them because it came from you..

Nutritionally speaking dogs do NOT need vegetable matter, in any form, but
will eat rotting fruit falling off bushes and trees because it smells and tastes
sweet. Which is one of the reasons they are drawn to drinking anti-freeze..
it smells and tastes sweet, but it is poison. So you understand that because
a dog will eat it doesn't mean it's a good part of their diet..

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (9)
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11a. Re: Fly Issues
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:48 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
..... Also, check out www.fliesbegone.com

this is
> the best fly trap I've ever used!
>
> Andrea
>
>Andrea, I bought this fly trap on your recommendation and I agree with
you; it is the BEST fly trap. I'm in Miami so between feeding raw and
the mango trees, the flies had gotten to be a BIG problem. As usual,
somebody on this forum comes through for me again :)

Silvina and the pugs

Messages in this topic (8)
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12a. Re: Feeding once a day
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:22 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/22/2007 10:24:09 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jforbes05@sbcglobal.net writes:

Should I reduce the
amount so that she could consume a whole meal at one sitting or should
I just roll with the flow? When she's leaves left over food it makes
me think that something is wrong with her or the food.....Any
thoughts, please?

Jim,

are you hungry every single day? do you eat the same amount every day? we
all have days when we are hungrier than others, we have days when the foods we
love look like poison and other days when the stuff we normally wouldn't touch
with a 10 ft. pole looks like the best thing since sliced bread.

Dogs go through this too.. if she doesn't eat as much one day, it's no big
deal, but don't leave the food out. Pick it up, put it back in the fridge,
offer it again tomorrow, or later in the week.

Usually when my dogs don't finish a meal, or refuse to eat they get nothing
the next day also, i take it as a sign that they need a fast day. After about
2 years of not feeding them the day after they refused food, they stopped
refusing food.. lol.

Catherine R.

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13a. Re: Looking for a raw co-op
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:34 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/20/2007 8:17:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
havanese1@bellsouth.net writes:

My question is does anyone know of a food co-op in central
Florida where I could purchase raw for my dogs?

Dolores,

this question is best asked on the Yahoo Group: Carnivor Feeder/Supplier

the link is in the files section.

Catherine R.

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14a. Re: Mange and protecting from it
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:35 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/21/2007 1:55:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
grundt@xplornet.com writes:

All indications is that is is a
form of mange. Now, I¹m not a vet, the owners are aware that something is
wrong. They first blamed it on the GSD¹s (Oh, it¹s just bite marks!).

Brenda,

Mange is the overgrowth of a mite that is part of the normal inhabitants of
all dogs' skin. the best and in fact, ONLY defense, is a healthy immune
system.

The BEST way to build your dogs' immune system is to feed a varied species
appropriate diet as this list suggests. Huge hunks o meat, hunks o meat on
bones, and organ meats.

If the rawfeeding isn't building your dogs' inmune system quick enough and it
needs a boost you can buy beef colostrum powder in most healthfood stores and
add that to your dogs' food.

I give it to the older dogs regularly, the young ones before medical
procedures (like spay/neuter) and after until they are healed or if i see any sign
that they don't feel well.

I take it myself a couple weeks before and after surgery until i'm healed and
feeling normal again.

Catherine R.

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15a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:45 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/22/2007 4:37:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Maiakitas@aol.com writes:

Any suggestions fellow raw feeders. Help me with these dang blasted picky and
particular
Akitas. :o)

Carla,

the best way to get an akita to eat is to let it miss a few meals.. they
aren't special, they are dogs just like every other dog. if you let it be picky,
it's your fault.. dogs are NOT the boss, you MUST be, especially with hard
headed dogs like akitas.

Catherine R.

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16. mixign proteins
Posted by: "Kellie Verrelli" ktverrelli@bellsouth.net verrelli
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:35 pm ((PDT))

Hi all
my girl has been enjoying the different meals but when I do the beef
ribs it seems to me that she is still getting
too much bone (she gets chicken back in am) I can't seem to find beef
with more meat then bone

so I wonder can I add say a chicken thigh or heart to give her a bit
more meat

it seems to me that her poo is a big dry - not white but with it been
summer and HOT I don't want her to
dehydrate.

also for a dog who is 20lb would chicken necks be bad (I ask because
chicken backs seem too much)
these little guys seem to put weigh on in the summer due to heat and
lack of movement and they appear to
be starving ;)

Thanks
Kellie

Messages in this topic (1)
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17. Where to find fish
Posted by: "millser25" millser25@yahoo.com millser25
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:35 pm ((PDT))

Does anyone have any suggestions about where to find fresh or frozen
small fish for a good price? I just can't find any fresh or frozen
sardines, smelt, herring, etc.
Thanks,
Erica

Messages in this topic (1)
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