[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11836

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma
From: Greta Hill

2. Dog with IVDD
From: marblekallie

3a. Re: mixign proteins
From: Sandee Lee
3b. Re: mixign proteins
From: bluegracepwd
3c. Re: mixign proteins
From: delcaste

4a. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: Sandee Lee
4b. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: Mike Devlin
4c. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: Sandee Lee

5a. Re: Happy to tears, but what about frozen raw?
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: fish bones
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Digest Number 11834
From: costrowski75
7b. Re: Digest Number 11834
From: pet.wellness

8a. Re: Where to find fish
From: Morledzep@aol.com
8b. Re: Where to find fish
From: Laurie Swanson
8c. Re: Where to find fish
From: emil smolensky
8d. Re: Where to find fish
From: temy1102

9a. Re: Raw Feeding Books
From: Sandee Lee
9b. Re: Raw Feeding Books
From: carnesbill

10a. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
From: Sandee Lee

11a. Summary for your newest member
From: Naomi Bjorgan

12.1. Re: itchy skin
From: LaUrA
12.2. Re: itchy skin
From: pet.wellness
12.3. Re: itchy skin
From: Sandee Lee

13a. Re: Question about new adopted cat...
From: linoleum5017

14a. Re: Leaving dogs for the weekend
From: Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com

Messages
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1a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma
Posted by: "Greta Hill" GretaHill@aol.com sunstate23
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:35 pm ((PDT))

I do exactly what Giselle does - I package everything into single
servings, and thaw just before I need it. I've done this for years - I
had to, because for years all I had was the freezer space in the house
fridge, and single servings took up less room then things like whole
chickens. I personally can't stand the smell of spoiled meat and won't
feed it, but I'm happy to say that I haven't thrown anything out in
years.

Greta

Messages in this topic (4)
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2. Dog with IVDD
Posted by: "marblekallie" marble@pipeline.com marblekallie
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:36 pm ((PDT))

Hi:

Is anyone here feeding an IVDD (Intevetebral Disc Disease) dog? I ask
because I would like to know what you have found out about supplements
under these special circumstances. I have had periods feeding a lot
of them, and periods feeding none but salmon oil. Also, is there
anything special you would feed in this case.

Philippa Jordan
New York City

Messages in this topic (1)
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3a. Re: mixign proteins
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:55 pm ((PDT))

Kellie,

She is getting too much bone. Both the ribs and backs are far too
bony....you need to add meat, not another chicken part. For beef you can
feed cheeks, heart, briskets, etc. Or add some nice meaty pork meals.

Again, necks are far too much bone...you might want to split a chicken
breast in order to increase meat intake when you feed chicken.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Kellie Verrelli" <ktverrelli@bellsouth.net>

> my girl has been enjoying the different meals but when I do the beef
> ribs it seems to me that she is still getting
> too much bone (she gets chicken back in am) I can't seem to find beef
> with more meat then bone
>
> so I wonder can I add say a chicken thigh or heart to give her a bit
> more meat
>
> it seems to me that her poo is a big dry - not white but with it been
> summer and HOT I don't want her to
> dehydrate.
>
> also for a dog who is 20lb would chicken necks be bad (I ask because
> chicken backs seem too much)

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: mixign proteins
Posted by: "bluegracepwd" janea@tpg.com.au bluegracepwd
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:06 pm ((PDT))

Hi Kellie,

sounds like you need to add more meat. Chicken necks are next to
useless, as they have hardly any meat. Try chicken thighs. My toy
poodles get through those no problem.

And don't panic about mixing proteins. Goodness knows where that myth
popped up from.

cheers,

Jane

Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: mixign proteins
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:17 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Kellie Verrelli <ktverrelli@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi all
> my girl has been enjoying the different meals but when I do the beef
> ribs it seems to me that she is still getting
> too much bone

Hi Kellie,

When I give mine "meaty bones" that are lacking meat, I add more meat
or even tongue, heart, gizzards. I try to give them organs especially
liver every other day. This seems to keep the poop ok. I'm new to this
so still learning a lot :)

Silvina and the pugs

Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:00 pm ((PDT))

Hi Mike,

Yes, you are missing variety in body parts, protein sources, and meat! Get
that little guy some pork, fish, lamb, beef...whatever you can find in your
area and give him some nice meaty meals.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "emdeefa" <mdevlin@aisle10.net>

so lately I have been feeding chicken theighs and chicken liver twice
a day. My puppy is around 24lbs, so I have been feeding right around a
pound a day, Usually it ends up being 1 theigh in the morning, and 1
at night with 1 liver with each meal. Also, sometimes in the morning I
will throw in a raw egg.

Aside from trying to find better deals on food, or throwing in some
variety to keep things interesting, and I missing anything important?
I am going to start throwing in some fish oil too, but other than
that, am I missing anything?

Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "Mike Devlin" mdevlin@aisle10.net emdeefa
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:11 pm ((PDT))

So your saying more quantity as well? or just more variety? like maybe pork
one day or meal, and beef another one, chicken another one...etc and with
the beef/pork and such, since those bones are harder, should I be
supplementing those meals with a more boney piece of chicken and taking away
the beef/pork bones after he picks them clean?

- Mike

On 7/23/07, Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Yes, you are missing variety in body parts, protein sources, and meat! Get
> that little guy some pork, fish, lamb, beef...whatever you can find in
> your
> area and give him some nice meaty meals.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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4c. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:30 pm ((PDT))

Just more variety...and more meat. Most pork bones will edible, beef won't.
But you only need bone as 10% of the overall diet so don't worry about
adding bone. It's not necessary.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Mike Devlin" <mdevlin@aisle10.net>

> So your saying more quantity as well? or just more variety? like maybe
pork
> one day or meal, and beef another one, chicken another one...etc and with
> the beef/pork and such, since those bones are harder, should I be
> supplementing those meals with a more boney piece of chicken and taking
away
> the beef/pork bones after he picks them clean?

Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Re: Happy to tears, but what about frozen raw?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:11 pm ((PDT))

"Stephanie Martello" <einahpets13@...> wrote:
>
> I do have a question, is there a benefit to remaining on a
> prepackaged frozen
*****
Nope.

or is it better overall to feed whole parts?
*****
Yes, you betcha.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: fish bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:28 pm ((PDT))

"delcaste" <delcaste@...> wrote:
I was given some fresh
> water fish, Chiclid and Blue Gill Bass, and was wondering if the
> bones are ok to feed along with the head?
*****
Assuming they are raw, yes.

I just started with the raw
> diet so I"M the apprehensive one here.
*****
I understand. A whole lotta stuff you've never done before or even
considered.

The pigglets I have will gulp
> this food and I'm scared it might be too much for them (the pugs, I
> think the Pittie pup can handle a fish).
*****
I don't know how big the fish are, so they might be too big for the
pups to finish off, but unless they're like minnows or anchovies or
small sardines they're not likely to be small enough to swallow.

Most likely what'll happen is your pugs will poke at a fish, probably
lick it, maybe try to roll on it and/or carry it off somewhere for
further investigation. If they eat into it they may take a few
mouthfuls and then quit, or they could chomp through the whole thing
BUT unless the fish is bitsy, I doubt they even try to gulp the fish
down.

Not to say it guaranteed, but expect digestive upheaval.
Let us know, hey?

the guy's wife wouldn't help
> him clean them so...I got 'em.
*****
The guy's gonna go fishing and actually catch somthing, you'd think
he could clean them. But no.

"Fishy fishy in the brook,
Daddy catch 'em with a hook.
Momma fry 'em in a pan.
Baby eat 'em like a man."
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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7a. Re: Digest Number 11834
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:29 pm ((PDT))

Bumble1994@... wrote:
>
>
> i never seen a wild animal actually eating the fur of the prey...
> or maybe i'm just wrong?
*****
How much time have you put into the watching? What animals have you
watched? Where?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: Digest Number 11834
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:17 pm ((PDT))

My standard poodle ate a whole warren of bunnies, fur and all. Pamela

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Bumble1994@... wrote:
>
>
> i never seen a wild animal actually eating the fur of the prey...
> or maybe i'm just wrong?

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: Where to find fish
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:39 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/23/2007 4:35:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
millser25@yahoo.com writes:

Does anyone have any suggestions about where to find fresh or frozen
small fish for a good price? I just can't find any fresh or frozen
sardines, smelt, herring, etc.

Erica,

try your local ethnic grocery stores.. almost all have a meat and/or fish
counter with types of fish not normally found in mainstream grocery stores.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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8b. Re: Where to find fish
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:15 pm ((PDT))

Asian markets usually have a good selection and good prices. I've
gotten smelt and mackarel there. Just watch out for dried fish at
Asian markets--I got some dried, frozen anchovies and salt wasn't
listed in the ingredients, but they were super-salty and my dog would
drink a ton of water following eating a handful of these. I don't know
if it was just from the salt water or what. Whole Foods near me used
to have some really good, fresh, whole sardines, but haven't had them
the last couple times I've checked. I've never looked into bait shops,
but that might be worth a try.

Laurie (Seattle)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "millser25" <millser25@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions about where to find fresh or frozen
> small fish for a good price?

Messages in this topic (5)
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8c. Re: Where to find fish
Posted by: "emil smolensky" esmolensky@yahoo.com esmolensky
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:16 pm ((PDT))

Any asian, latin or other ethinic markets should carry many different kinds of fish.
Chinatown, koreatown if available are fantastic!

EMIL

----- Original Message ----
From: millser25 <millser25@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 7:54:06 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Where to find fish

Does anyone have any suggestions about where to find fresh or frozen
small fish for a good price? I just can't find any fresh or frozen
sardines, smelt, herring, etc.
Thanks,
Erica

____________________________________________________________________________________
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Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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8d. Re: Where to find fish
Posted by: "temy1102" tammy.a.jp@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:17 pm ((PDT))

i buy tons of mackerel pike from the asian market for less than 1.50 a lb.

tammy & grover

Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. Re: Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:35 pm ((PDT))

Stephanie,

This is not something you are going to find in any book. You don't need to
feed a whole carcass in order to feed an appropriate diet. Feed as many
body parts and protein sources as possible. Looks like you are feeding
mainly chicken...branch out into pork, fish, lamb, turkey, etc.

I realize it may be more difficult than scooping a cup out of a bag each
meal, but just look at your dogs. If one is thin, feed more, if one is
heavy, feed less, if one eats too quickly, feed larger portions. It really
is not difficult and will soon become second nature. Just relax and feed
your dogs...lots and lots of meat, a little bone and organs. You don't need
a book to tell you how to do that.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Boxer Lover" <boxer.love@yahoo.com>

> Just anything more I can learn to give my dogs the best possible. I can't
nessasaraly throw each of my dogs a whole carcus each meal so I want to make
sure I'm giving them everything they need. Also some meats are quite pricey
around me (or not available) so that limits the veriaty. I'm also concerned
about the correct amount. I'm realizing the amount is a geussing game, but
it's been harder to figure out than I thought it would be.
>
> Below is what each of my dogs are being fed. Any coments would be
appriciated.
>
> Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday-Meaty Chicken Bones
> Monday-Beef Heart
> Wednesday-Beef Liver
> Friday-Beef Kidney
>
> I used to feed twice a day, but have just recently changed to once per day
(2 weeks ago). Feeding once a day has made my finiky eater finish all his
food. I have two dogs that put on weight easier than the other two. One
eats her food within seconds and I've been able to take her excess weight
off since switching to raw (5 months ago). Since switching to once a day
meals, she is looking too thin. The other eats his food quickly too. He
used to maintain his weight before being neutered, but afterward he put on
quite a bit. I'm slowly taking it off, but I don't want him too thin
either.
>
> The other two I have a harder time keeping weight on them. They are both
extremely active and maintaining their weight is important since they travel
quite a bit to shows. One is a male, not quite 2 yet and a finiky eater.
The other, a female, will eat almost anything and eats fast. She can pack
it on fast and then take it back off fast.
>
> Stephanie

Messages in this topic (16)
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9b. Re: Raw Feeding Books
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:16 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Boxer Lover <boxer.love@...> wrote:
>
> Are there any books you can recommend on raw feeding? I have "Raw
Meaty Bones" by Tom Lonsdale, but I would like to read more. Any
suggestions would be appreciated.
>
Did you read "Work Wonders" by Tom Lonsdale yet? If not you can
download it for free from http://www.rawmeatybones.com

Just click on
the book on the opening page to get to the download part. IMO it's
the most useful of his two books.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (16)
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10a. Re: How many meals should a puppy have
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:44 pm ((PDT))

Hi Lee,

She may be ok with three meals a day. If she is able to eat enough to
sustain her in three meals without any digestive issues, that's fine.
Figure feeding 2-3% of her ideal adult weight and divide it up into 3-4
meals per day, whatever works for you and her.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "lmustoe" <lmustoe@yahoo.co.uk>
I might be feeding her to much because when i try and feed her the 4th
meal in the evening she does not want to eat it and just leaves it.
I just thought that because raw is so nutritous that she might not need
that much? Thats why i thought i'd ask so i didnt get it wrong.Please
let me know what you think.

Messages in this topic (8)
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11a. Summary for your newest member
Posted by: "Naomi Bjorgan" ngbjorgan@gmail.com ngbjorgan
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:13 pm ((PDT))

Hello Everyone,

My name is Naomi and my husband and two small sons are in Davao City
Philippines as missionaries. We just arrived here in mid-June from
Vancouver Canada. We will be getting a paper lab pup next week and we
have VOWED to maintain a raw food diet for any animal coming under our
roof. As a child I grew up with our pets on kibble and now the very
thought of doing that to an animal seems cruel. Raw makes sense!

Being new to this I just want to clarify what I have read from the
whopping 63 emails which arrived in my inbox today. I want to be sure
our new pup Sheba gets off to a good start.

What I believe I've learned:
1) Dogs don't need any veggies or fruit at all
2) Whole raw carcasses of a variety of meats is perfect
3) Whole fish is excellent and should be included at least two times/wk
4) Never feed grains of any sort
5) Puppies should be fed 3 - 4times per day

Where I am not sure is:
1) Are kelp, bone-meal and fish oils necessary if one is doing the above?
2) How many raw eggs (including the shell) for a lab in a week?
3) Is there anything I'm missing that I should know before we get this
puppy?

Any clarification on any of the above would be greatly appreciated.

Blessings,

Naomi

++++++++++Mod note: signature removed by mod +++++++++

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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12.1. Re: itchy skin
Posted by: "LaUrA" laurasue17@hotmail.com angel_2_u_23
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:13 pm ((PDT))

We have been feeding chicken of all kinds (backs, necks, legs, hearts, etc), pork (hearts, necks, head meat, etc), beef (liver, kidney, etc), turkey necks, backs, and hearts too, egg made them really gassy, we feed yogurt, cottage cheese, veggie mush, jack mackerel (canned). That's all I can think of right now. Snoopy itches a bit more then Zoey does. Snoopy tends to be a bit more sensitive then Zoey, stomach wise and skin wise too. It's not fleas or ticks.

Laura
Proud Mommy to Miss Samantha (9 years old going on 16! LOL!!) and step mom to Heather -17, Nikki - 14 and Michelle - 8 - the most beautiful girls in the world!!!!!
Mom to furbabies: Snoopy (male - neutered - 10 month old - pit mix - 60lbs.) and Zoey (super smart hearing impaired female - spayed - 6 month old - pit mix - approx. 40lbs.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (43)
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12.2. Re: itchy skin
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:15 pm ((PDT))

My dog's itchy skin is improving every day now that we eliminated
chicken from his diet. (I know. That hurts the budget. But it's so
worth it to see him relaxed and not scratching himself to pieces.) Pamela

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "LaUrA" <laurasue17@...> wrote:
>
> What could we add to our dogs diet to help with their itchy skin?
> Any suggestions would be great, thank you!
>

Messages in this topic (43)
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12.3. Re: itchy skin
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:32 pm ((PDT))

Laura,

Add a lot more meat and dump the yogurt, cottage cheese and veggies and see
how that goes! Looks like you are feeding a lot of bony portions that are
lacking in meat and fat.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "LaUrA" <laurasue17@hotmail.com>

> We have been feeding chicken of all kinds (backs, necks, legs, hearts,
etc), pork (hearts, necks, head meat, etc), beef (liver, kidney, etc),
turkey necks, backs, and hearts too, egg made them really gassy, we feed
yogurt, cottage cheese, veggie mush, jack mackerel (canned). That's all I
can think of right now. Snoopy itches a bit more then Zoey does. Snoopy
tends to be a bit more sensitive then Zoey, stomach wise and skin wise too.
It's not fleas or ticks.

Messages in this topic (43)
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13a. Re: Question about new adopted cat...
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:15 pm ((PDT))

Cindy,

Sounds like normal cat behavior to me. Don't think you should look
at it as negative. Be glad they know how much to take in!

If you were to do anything for Rescue Boy, perhaps it would be to
scratch the surface of the rawfood, so he knows there's meat
inside..?.... or maybe he will just rawchat with his new feline
roomies, and they'll give him all the good advice they've learned
from the past 4 and 1/2 years!

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cindy Marabito <doggirl1@...>
wrote:
>
> I live with three senior cats who have been quite a challenge
getting
> to eat raw. We've been at it for four and a half years. They do
eat
> 100% raw/edible bone/organ, but every time there is a clean plate
> day, we'll seem to take two strides back the next day meaning
either
> they barely touch their food the next morning and then maybe eat
only
> half that evening. I am bringing a new rescue boy (according to
Anita
> Frazier's directions) into the house this week and would like to
get
> him transitioning over to raw. I have a couple of plans, but
would
> really appreciate your input and any advice and tips you might
have.
> This means anything and everything. The ideas that work for me
will
> go on my websites if that's ok. Thanks so much, Cindy
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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14a. Re: Leaving dogs for the weekend
Posted by: "Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com" Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com irishcateyes1
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:16 pm ((PDT))

AWWW!! Too wonderful! Wish I could share that with my dad too----he would
have been just as cool about it after the explanation though--lol!. ;) (he
passed away 4 years ago) Maggie, you are so lucky he shares with you like this
too and listens; I love it! Thanks for making me smile!! :) Tamatha

In a message dated 7/22/2007 3:33:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
maggie.taylor@artlover.com writes:

So then my
Dad starts asking about chicken bones which had me very confused.
"Where did the bones go?!" 'In the dog, Dad.' "What?! No, where
would he have hidden them??" 'Ummm? He ate them?' "Why would he do
that?" 'That's what dogs do? Don't worry about it...' It took me
about 10 minutes to convince my Dad that it was okay - good even -
that he didn't see bones because Diesel had eaten them. The next meal
he stuck around for and watched in total fascination as Diesel did, in
fact, consume the entire chicken quarter - bones and all. Then I got
another phone call about how fascinated he was by this.

Maggie
Diesel, SDIT

Any dog can teach a child responsibility and commitment.

A German Shepherd Dog will show the child the meaning
of dedication.

"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life,
his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true, to the last beat of
his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." --Unknown

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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Messages in this topic (11)
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