Feed Pets Raw Food: Dec 26, 2007

Wednesday, December 26, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12422

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Giant dogs - growth rate
From: eventer2001
1b. Re: Giant dogs - growth rate
From: Tina Berry
1c. Re: Giant dogs - growth rate
From: Sandee Lee

2a. Re: I need help, Great Dane with just pasta and cooked meat!
From: Andrea
2b. Re: I need help, Great Dane with just pasta and cooked meat!
From: Yasuko herron

3a. This has been on my mind lately...
From: mozookpr

4a. Re: New to this - what do you think?
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

5. re; my dog hates venison
From: Michelle R

6a. Re: Staffordshire bull
From: Yasuko herron

7a. Re: my dog hates venison!
From: Yasuko herron

8a. Re: First time shopping for raw - -wishme luck
From: anjaleck
8b. Re: First time shopping for raw - -wishme luck
From: tobrlaka

9a. Third week /question about teeth and raw feeding
From: marge
9b. Re: Third week /question about teeth and raw feeding
From: Sandee Lee
9c. Re: Third week /question about teeth and raw feeding
From: carnesbill

10a. ichy skin!
From: pfs.freedom
10b. Re: ichy skin!
From: Sandee Lee

11a. GI Normous Dogs
From: PK Shader
11b. Re: GI Normous Dogs
From: carnesbill

12a. Re: Need a logical response
From: diannem200400
12b. Re: Need a logical response
From: diannem200400
12c. Re: Need a logical response
From: diannem200400

13a. Re: {raw feeding} Beef hearts - new protein for my dogs
From: homesforallpets

14. New here & ready to start
From: Jean

15. gassy pup
From: Amy T

Messages
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1a. Giant dogs - growth rate
Posted by: "eventer2001" eventer2001@yahoo.com eventer2001
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:18 am ((PST))

Hey all. new to the group but have been feeding raw for several
years. Started with my 10 year old Newfie when he had kidney
problems... kidney problems cleared up and he lived to be 12.
Family's cattledog is 6 and has been fed raw for several years. Now
I have a 5 month old Newf pup and he's doing raw as well.

The question I currently have is that I have been told that about 10
pounds per month is appropriate growth for a Newf pup (my old guy I
got at 10.5 months so I haven't done the Newf pup routine until
now). Don't want them to grow too fast or they will develop problems
as a result. He turned 5 months yesterday and is weighing in at
approximately 52 pounds. HOWEVER, he is also currently a bit
underweight.... which means ideally he's a bit over the 10
pounds/month guideline.

I understand it's a guideline only, but the thought that his growth
has been spurred by the good stuff he's eating has me a little
concerned. Not enough to go off raw by any means! Just wondering if
anyone has any advice in this area. Could the good stuff be
encouraging a faster than desired (for physical "normality") growth
rate? Can anything be done (other than going off raw which there is
no way I'm going to do) -- backing off certain proteins, or the like?

Thanks so much
Tammy
& Reilly -- aka Adama's Watchtower at TLC
Dayton, Ohio

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: Giant dogs - growth rate
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:44 am ((PST))

"Don't want them to grow too fast or they will develop problems as a result.
He turned 5 months yesterday and is weighing in at approximately 52 pounds.
HOWEVER, he is also currently a bit underweight.... which means ideally he's
a bit over the 10 pounds/month guideline."

Raw feeding IMO allows them to grow at a more even rate; however, they still
go thru growth spurts at around 5-7 months, then again at around 12-15
months and then sometimes another one later. My 97lb gsd weighed about
50lbs at 5 months as well, he has large bones and never once got pano or
anything else. He developed very nicely.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (3)
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1c. Re: Giant dogs - growth rate
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:15 pm ((PST))

Hi Tammy,

I don't think I would worry too much about the charts and guidelines. Just
stick with feeding the guy 2-3% of his expected ideal weight and adjust by
his looks rather than the scale! :) You should be able to look and feel
and know if he is too thin or gaining too quickly. And remember that
feeding raw adds nice muscle which weighs more. You certainly don't want to
decrease any of his protein amounts unless he is looking pudgy!

BTW, that is awesome about your older Newfie's kidney issues clearing up on
raw! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "eventer2001" <eventer2001@yahoo.com>

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: I need help, Great Dane with just pasta and cooked meat!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:53 am ((PST))

> should I ask him not to feed her the last day, so when I come back
> I start with the raw?

With my dogs I didn't bother skipping a meal before starting them on
raw, though I know that some people do. It's up to you, really.

> I go, buy the whole turkey, ask the butcher to cut it in parts,
> take out the skin and give it to her?

Actually you can leave the skin on. I would take the innards out of
the turkey, though. You can stash them in the freezer for later. If
your meat guy doesn't want to cut the turkey for you it might be
easier to go with chicken. As I said before, it is likely that your
girl was reacting to the rice or some other grain than the chicken
earlier. Also, dogs that have shown an allergic reaction to cooked
chicken often don't have any problem eating *raw* chicken.

> how much, she is more or less 100 pounds.

It depends on how much she should weigh as a healthy adult. You'll
probably be feeding between two and three pounds a day. For now you
might want to start her with two feedings a day.

> Also, do you think is a good idea to give her some kind of vitamins
> because she was not getting enough? or the raw diet is going to be
> enough?

A good raw diet will give her everything she needs.

> How can I make it more tasteful, I know her and I am sure that she
> is going to look at me and ask "what is this?"

Don't be so sure, lots of dogs take to a raw diet right off the bat.
To stack the cards in your favor I would make sure the food is at
least room temp when you feed it to her, maybe warm it up a bit in a
bowl of hot water. When you give it to her make a big production out
of it since she's getting a fantastic new, special food.

Give her the food in her crate (if she has one) or on a big towel and
leave her alone. If she tries to take the food elsewhere, gently
tell her she needs to stay in her spot and place the food back where
it came from. Don't hover or try to coax her into eating, she'll get
curious on her own. If she doesn't show any interest after 10 or 15
minutes just calmly pick up the food and put it away until the next
feeding. On the off chance she doesn't go for it, come back and
we'll give you some more tips to make the food more appetizing for
her. Good luck.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: I need help, Great Dane with just pasta and cooked meat!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:46 pm ((PST))

>I am going to be back on January 2nd, she is with a pet sitter, I read
that is a good option to let her fast for a day and then start with the raw food, should I
ask him not to feed her the last day, so when I come back I start with the raw?

HI,Nayeli.No need to fast your dog to start with raw.You can go ahead do rawfeeding Cold Turkey without fasting.

When you switch brand of kibble,you must have been told to have transition time and gradually change diet to new brand kibble from breeder,but for raw,it is not the case.

With extreme,if you fed kibble on morning and suddenly thought you like to start from dinner time on that day with Raw,you can do that way.

Just do not feed kibble AM,raw PM all the time thought.It is not good for digestion wise for dogs.

> buy the whole turkey, ask the butcher to cut it in parts,

Wel,you can start with any meat you like.Often times,chicken is recommended because of availability and price wise and most dogs do well on chicken, but you can start from Turkey,you can start from Beef..wahtever you can get.

Mine started from chicken though. I think you do not need to ask your butcher to cut the poultry at all.If bird was too big for DAne,you can cut with kitchen sears. My sears;Joyce CHen unlimited red handle scissor cut poultry very easily.No cleaver needed other than probably leg part a little.

You know how much weigh is ideal for Dane. Then,you feed 2%-3% of weight is guideline and it is depend on activity level too so,on food amount,you need to experiment and decide how much you feed.If your dog were super active and if 3% did not look enough for them,you can feed 4%5% 6% etc.The % is not set in stone so,you see your dog and decide.

>take out the skin and give it to her?

You don't need to make poultry skineless at all.If your dog did not have digestive prob or fat% prob,you can feed with skin. Mine is corgi,but when I feed Duck,I need to skin off a little because if all skin on,she gets gooey poo. So far,she can take probably 2 thubm nail sized skin on Duck meat.More than that becomes prob.Each dog is different so,you need to learn waht works best fopr your dog.

>Also, do you think is a good idea to give her some kind of vitamins
because she was not getting enough?

No. Any vitamin is made from lab and,I think that it is much healthier if human or dog could get the same vitamins from form of whole foods not from form of tablet or pills.

And,if you really try to supplement with Vitamin tab,you need to know how much is too much for your dog and,it is not an easy job to do.

Idea of feeding raw is that such vitamins or minerals or protins are fed balanced ovewr time.So, if one did not get say..not enogh Vitamin A,then,the dog gets it from other source of food that has A later such as liver.

When you thnk about it,if it were balance over time,you can pretty much get any vitamin from food.

Only thing that may benefit your dog is Fish oil or salmon oil that is made from Omega3 rich fish such as herring,Mackerral,Anchovi,Salmon,Sardine.

If the dog was on mainly poultry diet,then,omega 3 is hard to achive enough for dogs so,need to bump up the level of Omega3.Poultry is high in omega6.

Feed more red meat,little poultry,little fish is the way to go,I learnt here.

My dog gets fed mostly red meat and 4 meal or so poultry and 4 meal fish out of 14meals.I feed 2 omega 3 rich fish every week and I feed omega 3 rich Egg so,I am thinking I give fish oil only on non omega3 rich fish meal day.

>How can I make it more tasteful,

I think raw meat is tastiest for them.It just that because of un familiar texture and smell and taste,dog may find it hard to dig in right away.

Just be patient and yor dog be fine.don't co-ax the dog to eat.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. This has been on my mind lately...
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:57 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nayelli Di Spalatro
<nayellidispalatro@...> wrote:
>
> When she was a puppy I fed her with cooked chicken and
> rice, and she was not able to keep the food down so
> the vet said that probably she was allergic to chicken
> (he never made any test), so I stop feeding her like
> that.
>
Why, when a dog has issues with food, do so many vets assume it is
the MEAT that is the culprit? Dogs get moved from grain-based food
with chicken to grain-based food with lamb to grain-based food with
rabbit or venison or fish or whatever, and the "problem" is always,
always, always with the meat...sigh.

Okay, enough of that rant. Sorry, Nayelli.

You will find an absolute treasure trove of things for your dog in
NY! I envy the diversity of your markets there. But to start, keep
it simple. Get some chickens (do make sure they are not "improved"
with any seasonings or other enhancements.) Cut them in half, or
even offer a whole one if you like. A Dane is a big dog, and you can
always take up any leftovers for the next meal.

You might be nervous. I was. Your dog might have runny poo for a
few days, or even a couple of weeks. Mine did. (Still do,
sometimes, due to operator error.) You will make mistakes, but they
are unlikely to hurt your dog. Your nerves and your carpets may
suffer the occasional trauma at first, but if you feed that big dog
big food and add introduce new meats slowly she will be fine.

Cheers,

Wendy

Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: New to this - what do you think?
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:46 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 12/26/2007 8:47:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
"Darjeelingirl" writes:

However, they haven't eaten any of it yet even
though I've left it out for them and have not offered any kibble. Do you
think they will get hungry enough and give in or should I do something
differently?

Hi, Patsy,

About the cats--You will have to go on and give them kibble, for now. You
can't starve a cat into eating, like you can a dog, as they are at risk of a
liver ailment if they go without food for too long. (I read that over 24 hr. may
be a risk factor for some cats.) You'll just have to persistently place a
tiny bite of meat along with their kibble until they get so familiar with it
that they forget its something new and accidentally eat it. :)

Here's a web site with lots of good information:

_http://www.rawfedcats.org/practicleguide.htm_

(http://www.rawfedcats.org/practicleguide.htm)

Lynda

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

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5. re; my dog hates venison
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:47 pm ((PST))

Well, if all else fails, just box it up and send it to me, mine LOVE it!!! LOL

All kidding aside, I had one who the first week or so of venison, he would ONLY eat it still nearly frozen, and then only premo quality tenderloin peices and sliced "just right" into bite size peices. The other picky one of mine just refused it entirely. I picked it back up and just offered it to him next meal time, they got no treats and no other food. Took 2 days for my real picky one to decide he would try it, now just a few months later, its one of his favorites, which is good becuz its one of my main food sources. I did no searing and found at first, if I put him in crate and left the room completely, he was more likely to eat than if there were other dogs or myself around. It did bother him to see me hand feed my other guys peices of the venison and we made a big deal over how yummy it is in front of him....he came around, altho I think soemtimes it was mostly jealousy driven, but hey! whatever works, right??

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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6a. Re: Staffordshire bull
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:16 pm ((PST))

>He's a 30Lbs dog, how much should I feed him?

30lb x 16 x 0.02 gives you 2% intake for a day.
Only if your dog's ideal weight was 30lb.If your dog were going to be bigger than tat and that bigger number was ideal use that number instead of 30.

Out of that daily intake number 10% of it will be organ intake.5% liver,5% other organ like kidney.

When you just start feeding,you do not need to give organ at all.

As your dogs get uised to organ free meal,you can give to your dog organ from smidge amount to increase the amount to desired amount.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Re: my dog hates venison!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:16 pm ((PST))

>Venison is a very gamey, smelly meat, and maybe your dog just doesn't
like it.

I cooked Elk for THanksgiving,but it wasn't gamy at all.It is tasted like Beef.

My dog had prob eating Elk rib with enthuisium but, other Elk Heart,Elk boneless meat part,palette did not have any prob eating.You can try other part and see if the dog show interest or not.

As for Rib, If I showed bone under skin,she goes enthustic too.Maybe you can try many different tricks and see if it works. If not,after being introduced some other stuff,you can re-introduce them again.THey may be ok by then.

yassy

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8a. Re: First time shopping for raw - -wishme luck
Posted by: "anjaleck" anjaleck@gmail.com anjaleck
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:16 pm ((PST))

> I have always had good luck buying in bulk from small independent
> grocery stores that sell meat.

Thanks, Bill! You started me thinking along lines I hadn't thought of
before. There aren't many independent grocers around here, but there
is a meat store specializing in meat for the Latinos in the area.
I'll check that out.

Hugs,
Anj

Messages in this topic (11)
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8b. Re: First time shopping for raw - -wishme luck
Posted by: "tobrlaka" tobrlaka@nwi.net tobrlaka
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:33 pm ((PST))

Kathy
I am not sure what stores you have available in your area, but perhaps
this could be the case no matter where:
I was staring at various cuts of this and that in the meat department
at our local Albertson's, and the butcher came out and asked what I
was looking for. I told her I needed raw meat for my dogs, and she
was DELIGHTED to clear out about 10# of her ground turkey for about
50cents/pound, rather than the usual $3 per pound, because it was
going to be past its "sell by" date the next day.
If you are bold enough to let your butcher or meat department person
know you can help him/her out by clearing out that stuff for them at
LOW prices (maybe I should have asked for it for free?) maybe you
could get a steady supply of at least some goodies at hand that way.

I do understand your idea of wanting to have enough on hand to not
have to switch back and forth from kibble to raw.

Who would have thought shopping for dog/cat food could turn into such
a 'treasure hunt?'

Good luck
brenda

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9a. Third week /question about teeth and raw feeding
Posted by: "marge" marge_moriarty17551@yahoo.com marge_moriarty17551
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:17 pm ((PST))

Hello everyone,

I have continued to check the posts daily but haven't needed to post
anything....I guess this means I am not as nervous about our
feedings. Foxy and Pepper (mini poo's)have been eating raw almost
three weeks now. They still get a lot of chicken but have begun to
eat pork and beef. I still haven't purchased a scale so I am
eyeballing the amount. They usually get a part of a chicken back in
the am and just meat in pm. I am slowly backing off the amount of
bone and increasing the meat even in the morning. They seem to need
the bone to keep stools normal. Will begin adding organ soon.

Now, about the teeth issue: My guys teeth were pretty much covered
in plaque with moderately bad breath. Tonight I had my first
appointment with a new vet (with Foxy)...I confess, I chickened
out...could not tell her I raw feed. Well, she saw Foxy's teeth and
really thinks I should get them cleaned. They aren't loose except
for slightly loose front tooth. Do dog's teeth actually
improve...does raw feeding and the bones break up the plaque. I was
hoping to get feedback on others experiences with this issue.
Feedback on my feeding regime much appreciated also.
Thanks to all,

Marge

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9b. Re: Third week /question about teeth and raw feeding
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:57 pm ((PST))

Yes Marge, they definitely do improve. Not sure what to say about the loose
teeth, but the rest of it should clean up nicely. You might wait a while on
the cleaning. When I adopted one of my Danes at 6-years-old, his teeth were
horrible! It took several months for all of it to come off, but my vet was
amazed to hear I have never had his teeth cleaned! :) Of course, he's
amazed I have healthy 8 and 12-year-old Danes! :)

Oh, and no need to tell your vet what you are feeding! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "marge" <marge_moriarty17551@yahoo.com>

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9c. Re: Third week /question about teeth and raw feeding
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:11 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "marge" <marge_moriarty17551@...>
wrote:
>
> They seem to need
> the bone to keep stools normal. Will begin adding organ soon.

Don't be in a big rush to add organ. If they are still having even
a little issue with stools it won't hurt a thing to wait another
month before feeding organs.

> Well, she saw Foxy's teeth and
> really thinks I should get them cleaned.

Wait a few months and I think you will see the teeth are all taken
care of. They should be pearly white by then.

> They aren't loose except
> for slightly loose front tooth. Do dog's teeth actually
> improve...does raw feeding and the bones break up the plaque.

Absolutely, 100%, beyond the shadow of a doubt, yes. You are going
to be amazed. I don't know if the slightly loose tooth will become
tight again. Wait and see. It may. If there are cavities, they
won't go away, but the plaque will disappear. No cleaning will be
necessary.

I had exactly thes same situation with my two old Goldens when I
switched them. The vet had been after me to get teeth cleaned for 3
years. Began raw in an October and when they went for regular check
in Feb, the vet couldn't believe it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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10a. ichy skin!
Posted by: "pfs.freedom" staylor@chjinc.com pfs.freedom
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:17 pm ((PST))

Hello everyone. Ive just gotten a chihuahua puppy, ive named Brody,
that is about 11 weeks old. Ive been feeding him raw chicken and a
little bit of beef for the the last week since I got him. My concern is
that he keeps biting his back legs like they are ichy. I cant see any
fleas on him and he seems to only chew on the same spots. Im wondering
if it could just be dry skin and if anyone knows a natural remedy I
could try for him. the nearest Holistic vet only takes appointments and
I cant get in to see him for another week. any advice would be
appreciated. thanks!

Shannon Taylor
(and Brody)

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10b. Re: ichy skin!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:01 pm ((PST))

Shannon,

There are lots of possibilities...could be dry skin, could be additives in
the chicken, not enough fat in the diet or fleas
(you tried a flea comb on him to make sure that's not what it is?). You
could try a bit of fish or salmon oil...just make certain it isn't enhanced
with soy. You aren't using any other supplements, are you?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "pfs.freedom" <staylor@chjinc.com>

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11a. GI Normous Dogs
Posted by: "PK Shader" Forloveofdogs@gmail.com forloveofdogs
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:26 pm ((PST))

I posted this on raw chat and thought I should post here as well.

I have been feeding my pack raw for about 2 years now and I have
encountered a problem about which I am stumped. They all receive a
good variety of meats and bones and organs. Venison, lamb, turkey,
chicken, beef, squirrel and all the chipmunks and rabbits, mice and
voles they can
catch and consume.

The rest of my pack of 5 look great, fit and healthy. But two of my
pack a 12 year old Puddin JRT (in tact) and a 6 year old Stumpy Tailed
Cattle dog (neutered) have grown to GI Normous proportions! The JRT
looks as if she will give birth to 9 puppies any day now and the
Cattle dog looks as if she has already eaten them.

I measure and weigh everything and Nan (JRT) is down to 2 ozs. a day
and yet her weight does not budge. I HAVE to be doing something
wrong. The 10 year, old, little neutered JRT(9lbs) who is half Nan's
size gets 5 oz (the same amount as the Cattle dog) a day and looks great.

None have been vaccinated for years and Nan's blood has been sent to
Dodds and checked out OK.

Help!

PK Shader CSATSLL1, ABMA, ABS, AWA, CSATS Mentor
For Love of Dogs Canine/Human Relations Learning Center LLC
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/SATZ_Main/

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11b. Re: GI Normous Dogs
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:11 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "PK Shader" <Forloveofdogs@...>
wrote:
>
> The JRT
> looks as if she will give birth to 9 puppies any day now and the
> Cattle dog looks as if she has already eaten them.

Assuming thyroid is ok, its a very simple situation. Anytime
calories in is greater then calories out, animal gains weight. No
way to stop that. The good news is the opposite is also new.
Calories in is less than calories out, animal loses weight.

Nothing mysterious about it. Nothing secret. No magic cure. Feed
the dogs fewer calories or exercise the dogs more or even better, do
both.

> I measure and weigh everything and Nan (JRT) is down to 2 ozs.
> a day and yet her weight does not budge.

Volume is important but just as important is meal content. Feed low
calorie foods. I THINK in general that means less fat, more
protein. I'm sure someone can clarify that.

I think in this case, more exercise is a must. A lot more. By
exercise I don't mean a walk around the block. I mean LONG walks
and rigorious exercise like chasing balls and other actvities that
include running. Of course you will have to take into account the
older one's age. The younger one can't get too much exercise. If
you can cause him to run for 2 hours a day, that would be ideal.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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12a. Re: Need a logical response
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:26 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Caitlin <caitlin@...> wrote:
sat IN the bowl, and proceeded to eat ALL 6 cups in
> the bowl, and when she tried to jump out of the bowl, she knocked the
> barricade over with her big fat belly and made a whole lot of racket
and
> then laid at the bottom of the stairs belly up (no, not dead...
that's
> how she sleeps!) with all feet in the air for the next day or two.

Hi Caitlin:

I got a real grin from your description of the aftereffects of a Pom
eating 6 cups of doom nuggets:) I am glad to know that others have had
the problem of dogs snarfing too much/too big and have gotten by it.

Dianne M.

Messages in this topic (10)
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12b. Re: Need a logical response
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:33 pm ((PST))

Thank you, Michael. I was too scared not to keep trying. You just do
what you have to...

Dianne M.
"jmwise80" <jmwise80@...> wrote:
>
> If anything like that ever happens to dogs, family, friends, or
> strangers I hope I can keep composure and take care of the situation

Messages in this topic (10)
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12c. Re: Need a logical response
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:39 pm ((PST))

You are so right, Shelly. I guess I found out the hard way how
important it is to supervise mealtimes. In the 7 months or so I've
been rawfeeding, I would leave the dogs alone for some short periods of
time while I did this or that, just checking in on them, particularly
when they were eating a boney meal. Nevermore. I stick to them like
glue now.

Dianne M.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Shelly <stuartjlittle@...> wrote:

We still hand the other two their big
> chunks, they're good chewers and we don't worry about them (although
NO ONE
> eats unsupervised anymore, if he hadn't been watching, Trixie would
be dead).

Messages in this topic (10)
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13a. Re: {raw feeding} Beef hearts - new protein for my dogs
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:11 pm ((PST))

> And I asked the guy that waited on me if they could save me some
tripe and
> he said that he (I'm assuming that he meant the butcher) doesn't like
> cutting it up b/c the tripe is so heavy that he cuts out the whole
thing and
> just throws it away. Is that just a lazy way out, any argument that
I can
> make to them to save me some tripe?
>

I'd tell him I'd ttake the whole thing and could cut it up myself.
You could then arrange to pick it up the day they remove it from the
animal.

Just a thought.

Kathy in MO
Angel - Black Lab Holly - mini mix breed
Oreo & turquoise - cats

Messages in this topic (5)
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14. New here & ready to start
Posted by: "Jean" iambjl246@yahoo.com iambjl246
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:36 pm ((PST))

I am new to this site & to raw feeding!I have a maltese that is 12 yrs
old. She has had skin problems for years & now she is chewing her front
paws almost to bleeding.Vets just give steroids or another kind of
pill that covers the problem!I heard of raw feeding and now am ready to
try it! Do I just start by giving her raw chicken or turkey? She has
very few teeth left, But still loves to chew bones. Thanks for any
help. Jean

Messages in this topic (1)
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15. gassy pup
Posted by: "Amy T" amypatriciatracy@gmail.com rosiesmomlovesrosie
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:36 pm ((PST))

For the past couple of days Rosie has had some bad "A" gas. Poops are
normal, eating and everything else is normal. However, she's cleared
the room a number of times and last night my bed was engulfed (it's
bad, kids). My roommate thinks something has crawled into her
intestines and died. She's doing excellent on raw, it's week four, but
the gas comes and goes and sometimes it's fierce and prolonged. She
didn't have gas on the doom nuggets. Is this something I should be
worried about ... aside from our own mental well being? Is it a
just "ride it out" kind of problem?
Amy (and Rosie-the-poofter)

Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12421

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: First time shopping for raw - -wishme luck
From: homesforallpets
1b. Re: First time shopping for raw - -wishme luck
From: homesforallpets

2a. Re: Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
From: homesforallpets

3a. Re: Advice on diahrrea?
From: Andrea

4a. Re: Re-introduce proteins after hiatus??
From: Andrea

5a. Re: New to this - what do you think?
From: Andrea
5b. Re: New to this - what do you think?
From: Darjeelingirl
5c. Re: New to this - what do you think?
From: Sandee Lee

6a. Re: vomit after feeding pork
From: Andrea

7a. cooked leftovers
From: Andrea

8a. Re: dehydrated raw
From: Peggy Parker
8b. Re: dehydrated raw
From: ginny wilken

9a. Re: another question about our new Great Dane puppy
From: Andrea
9b. Re: another question about our new Great Dane puppy
From: becky brooks

10a. Re: Staffordshire bull
From: costrowski75
10b. Re: Staffordshire bull
From: A. L. W.

11a. {raw feeding} Beef hearts - new protein for my dogs
From: Brandi Bryant
11b. Re: {raw feeding} Beef hearts - new protein for my dogs
From: Andrea
11c. Re: {raw feeding} Beef hearts - new protein for my dogs
From: Tina Berry
11d. Re: {raw feeding} Beef hearts - new protein for my dogs
From: mozookpr

12a. Re: Couldn't help ourselves. . .walmart puppy
From: homesforallpets

13a. I need help, Great Dane with just pasta and cooked meat!
From: Nayelli Di Spalatro
13b. Re: I need help, Great Dane with just pasta and cooked meat!
From: Andrea
13c. Re: I need help, Great Dane with just pasta and cooked meat!
From: nayellidispalatro

14a. Re: my dog hates venison!
From: johnsonkp200

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: First time shopping for raw - -wishme luck
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:31 am ((PST))

>
> ALL she needs for the first couple of weeks is chicken. Don't
worry
> about anything else unless its a real good deal on sale the freeze
> it for a couple of weeks.

The majority of what I got was chicken. I guess yeah for me!

> Food is just a trip to the grocery store away. You can buy enough
> chicken to get by a few days for just a few dollars.

Yes but I never have money past payday. Saddly we are forced to live
check to check. After all our living expenses were tended to I was
only able to get 3 packs of chicken wings, then got some livers,
hearts and gizzards on an awsome sale, and some salmon for both her
and us. I know we're nuts right? Having dogs and having to live so
tightly budgeted? Please remember not all of us bring home $8.00
plus and hour.

> Toss the kibble. You can always make a trip to the grocery store
> for a little chicken if need be.

Am I supposed to steal it?

> Don't worry about variety in the first couple of months. Just
> gradually add new meats as you go along.

Ok.

I know you mean well but in my posistion I feel having a well stocked
freezer is best before I begin so I am not jumping back and forth raw
to kibble and back again. Thank you.

Kathy in MO
Angel - Black Lab
Holly - Mini Schnauzer

Messages in this topic (9)
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1b. Re: First time shopping for raw - -wishme luck
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:28 am ((PST))

> Kathy
> If you have a super wal-mart close buy you can get 10 lb
> bag of chicken quarters for .47 per lb. And beef
> kidney for 1.14, chicken gizzards for 1.24,canned
> jack macrel .92 per can.I also shop other
> supermarket sales for beef hart and ground beef.
> With 2 mastiffs at 200lbs it could get expenseve
> at 3 lbs per dog per day.If you need any additional info
> let me know.
> Pete
>

Pete,

I looked for the cheapest meat options they had, but they were low on
a lot of stuff and many things were out! I got what I could. Plus I
was shoved a lot by rude last minute shoppers. I was not last minute
shopping it just happened to be payday. Ug. I get my SSI on Monday
and after paying rent and the few bills that are left I will go back
for more stuff. I will look hard for the chicken quarters you
mentioned. Canned mackerel would be cooked wouldn't it?

I have never seen Beef Kidney in the store anywhere but will look
specifically for it now.

Thanks!

Kathy in MO
Angel - Black Lab Holly - Mini Schnauzer x Rat Terrier
Oreo & Turquoise - cats

Messages in this topic (9)
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2a. Re: Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:31 am ((PST))

> I don't know where exactly in MO you are at, but a while back I
stumbled across this site that has tripe, lung, liver, spleen, etc.,
at decent prices:
>
> http://www.milestonefarms.com/index.html
>
> Have no clue if they ship or not, but I believe they are located
somewhere near KC.
>
>
> HEIDI MARIE

Thanks! I have writen to them to see how far they are. I have also
bookmarked the page!

Kathy in MO
Angel - black lab
Holly - mini schnauzer x rat terrier

Messages in this topic (18)
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3a. Re: Advice on diahrrea?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:48 am ((PST))

Generally it is easier to switch a dog when you use only one protein at
a time, so if you can get some other chicken parts to go with the backs
you should be ok. Wait a couple of weeks before adding in the beef and
when you do add it, do it a little bit at a time. Hope that helps.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carrin" <mntgrl_2000@...> wrote:

> He has been getting chicken backs and beef cheeks. Is this a normal
> stage, or should I try just sticking to one protein source for a
> while? If so, which one would be best (we have a huge bulk of backs
> and cheeks)?

Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Re: Re-introduce proteins after hiatus??
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:53 am ((PST))

It sounds like their stomachs were just overcome with the fatty pork
after eating something lean like venison for a good long time. If
Deke's stomach is still gurgling today you may want to skip his food
today to let it settle down. I don't think you'll need to spend days
reintroducing pork to him, but be a little gentle since he hasn't had
fatty stuff in a while.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Heidi" <troopob@...> wrote:

> I was lucky enough to get a couple coolers full of venison and lamb
> over Thanksgiving from my mom. After I fed through that, I went
> back to chicken and pork. Holy white watery squirts, Buttman!!

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: New to this - what do you think?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:12 am ((PST))

> The other day I bought a bunch of chicken legs, pork feet, pork
> shoulders, turkey giblets, beef liver, and beef cuts of some kind,
> and some beef bones with meat on them at the local corner grocery.

Most of these are great foodstuffs for down the line, but you want to
take it a little slowly with variety at first. Pups generally
tolerate variety quickly but you still don't want to overdo it. Pork
feet, liver, and beef should be stowed for later feeding. I'd get
started with chicken and then once you know he's good with that add
in the turkey and then the pork. Give it a day or two between new
foods to make sure his stomach is keeping up and if you end up with
loose stools just go back one step.

> Some of the items were marked "beef bone - for dogs" etc.

Any time I see something labeled "for dogs" it is almost always not
really appropriate for them. These beef bones are super dense and
can damage adult dogs' teeth, this is why we refer to them as wreck
bones. No more of these in the future for the pupster.

> I know I need to vary the types of meat and include bone. Is there
> anything GREATLY amiss here?

You don't need to worry too much about a huge variety from the
beginning. You have plenty of time to work in new food sources, so
don't get too excited or your pup's stomach will pay the price. In
general the stuff you found is pretty good.

> On the other hand, after 10 and 5 years respectively on kibble, the
> cats think I'm off my rocker - or messing with them.

Yes, cats really imprint on a food and it is hard to change their
minds about it. But with cats you have to be more sneaky and patient
than dogs. You can't just withold food from a cat until they give
in, especially if the cat is overweight in the first place. Let the
cats eat whatever they will and then find ways to sneak the real food
in there from time to time. Eventually you'll get them switched over
but it might take some time. It took us ages to get our cats eating
chunks of raw foods and even longer before they would work on whole
foods. You just have to go at cat speed.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: New to this - what do you think?
Posted by: "Darjeelingirl" darjeelingirl@comcast.net zoookeeeper
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:45 am ((PST))

>>>First and most importantly...FEED YOUR CATS!!! Sorry to shout, but this
is
so important.

Well, yes, this is why I asked for input. I certainly don't want to harm or
bully them - that isn't my intention at all. They last saw kibble on
Sunday and thankfully they were nibbling on the beef liver and someone was
gnawing on the chicken leg last night that I left out for them (Tuesday pm).
So that was just a little more than a day that they didn't eat. This
morning I bought some ground beef and tuna. The tuna was a big hit so I
mixed it with the ground beef, small pieces of cut up liver, and some egg.
Snickers prefers only tuna and wouldn't eat the mix but what I read in the
files this morning says that I can't just feed her tuna all the time.
Cuthbert showed that he will pretty much eat anything with tuna mixed in it.
Snickers never overeats. Cuthbert always does - of course he barfed half of
it up an hour later, even though he had only about 2 oz max. I think we'll
have some adjusting to do after being used to the expanding kibble. So, we
shall forge ahead as I learn what to feed them and how much, etc. etc. At
least Sherlock makes us a team - he was right there, cleaning up after
Cuthbert like a wet/dry vac!

Patsy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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5c. Re: New to this - what do you think?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:10 am ((PST))

Hi Patsy,

Glad to hear they are eating something. One thing you can do is sprinkle
some crushed up kibble on top of the food. Cats can be hard but there are
some really experienced folks on the rawcat list who know all the tricks!
:) Might be worthwhile joining......

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Darjeelingirl" <darjeelingirl@comcast.net>
>
The tuna was a big hit so I
> mixed it with the ground beef, small pieces of cut up liver, and some egg.
> Snickers prefers only tuna and wouldn't eat the mix but what I read in
the
> files this morning says that I can't just feed her tuna all the time.
> Cuthbert showed that he will pretty much eat anything with tuna mixed in
it.
> Snickers never overeats. Cuthbert always does - of course he barfed half
of
> it up an hour later, even though he had only about 2 oz max. I think we'll
> have some adjusting to do after being used to the expanding kibble. So,
we
> shall forge ahead as I learn what to feed them and how much, etc. etc.

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Re: vomit after feeding pork
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:18 am ((PST))

Bile vomit usually means the dog is expecting a meal that did not come
on time. If these vomits did come before a regularly scheduled meal
you might look into randomizing the feeding pattern so he doesn't have
a set mealtime in his head. You'll have to deal with the bile vomit
for a couple of days while he adjusts but after that you won't have to
worry about getting home on time to feed him ever again.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@...>
wrote:

> he threw up what appeared to be mostly bile (yesterday it was yellow
> and looked like egg yolk, not sure about today as I didn't witness
> it).

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. cooked leftovers
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:21 am ((PST))

We use cooked leftovers as treats for the dogs around here, but always
in small amounts. Don't use the cooked pork to replace a real meal,
and don't give *any* cooked bones.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sheila" <schatzee@...> wrote:
>
> We've been doing raw about 3 weeks now, mainly chicken and pork, we
had a pig roast in may and have some cooked pork in the freezer - would
it be o.k. to give them that?

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: dehydrated raw
Posted by: "Peggy Parker" peggyparker_4@yahoo.com peggyparker_4
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:24 am ((PST))

thanks for letting me know your experience. Anytime anything has ever gone wrong with my dogs, I always check the food first. The breeder sent a cow hoof home with my TFT, and if that doesn't clean the teeth, I don't know what will, although I do have some concern
that he might clip a tooth.
Peggy

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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8b. Re: dehydrated raw
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:57 am ((PST))

On Dec 26, 2007, at 7:02 AM, Peggy Parker wrote:

> thanks for letting me know your experience. Anytime anything has
> ever gone wrong with my dogs, I always check the food first. The
> breeder sent a cow hoof home with my TFT, and if that doesn't clean
> the teeth, I don't know what will, although I do have some concern
> that he might clip a tooth.
> Peggy
>

Raw hooves are generally OK, but the dried ones are accidents waiting
to happen. A big, complicated meal is well within the abilities of
your little terrier, and will do much better at cleaning all the
surfaces.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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9a. Re: another question about our new Great Dane puppy
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:25 am ((PST))

Start with 2-3% of the ideal adult weight and go from there. She'll
probably lose the pudge after you get her off the doom nuggets on her
own. If she keeps the pudge after a couple of weeks back down the
amount of food. Easy peasy.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Becky Brooks (Marsh)"
<kidcreations1@...> wrote:
>
> She is overweight right now, but she's still a puppy, so should I
> stick with 2 percent of her ideal adult weight? Or more since she's
> a puppy? Or less since she's fat???

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

9b. Re: another question about our new Great Dane puppy
Posted by: "becky brooks" kidcreations1@yahoo.com kidcreations1
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:54 am ((PST))

EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.

Thanks to all who have replied to my questions about our new Dane puppy. I will take your advice!
becky

Messages in this topic (5)
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10a. Re: Staffordshire bull
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:44 am ((PST))

"Yenna" <fifofifo51@...> wrote:
> He's a 30Lbs dog, how much should I feed him? 1Lb, 2Lb, once a day,
> twice a day? any feedback welcome.
*****
Feed twice a day to start; feed between 2% and 3% of his ideal adult
weight and expect to adjust, adjust, adjust as his progress or lack
of progress dictates.

If 30lb is his ideal adult weight, you're looking at feeding a
generous half pound a day to a scant pound. If his ideal adult
weight is likely to be 50lb, you can feed as little as a pound a day
to as much much as one and one-half pounds. In all cases what the
scale says is less relevant than what the dog's appearance and
performance say. Always use your dog as the best guide to your dog.

There are thousands of messages in the archives that address (over
and over and over again) the business of starting a raw diet.
--how to feed
--what to feed
--what not to feed
--why
--when to feed
--where to feed
--why your dog won't eat
--what to do when your dog won't eat
--how much bone
--what kind of bone
--what kind of meat
--what kind of organs
--what's organ meat
--what to do for loose stools
--what's the difference between loose stools and diarrhea
--what is yellow vomit
--why is yellow vomit
And much much more.

If you are not a member of Yahoogroups, please join so you can access
the Rawfeeding archives. (Instructions for doing so are at the
bottom of each Rawfeeding email you recieve.) Probably everything
that everyone here knows about feeding raw is there. Also visit

http://rawfed.com
http://rawfeddogs.net
http://www.rawlearning.com

Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: Staffordshire bull
Posted by: "A. L. W." chenneoue@yahoo.com chenneoue
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:03 am ((PST))

The recommendation is generally 2-3% of body weight. So at 3% that
will be less then a pound a day. I would imagine you could do once or
twice a day. Your choice, depending on what's more convenient.

Good Luck!
Amanda

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Yenna" <fifofifo51@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, all the best for the year 2008.
> We just got a staffie from the refuge, he's a 1 year old neutered
male.
> I made some research on the net and found the "raw diet" forum, I
fell
> in love with the idea, it makes so much sense.
> He's a 30Lbs dog, how much should I feed him? 1Lb, 2Lb, once a day,
> twice a day? any feedback welcome.
>
> Cheers
> Yenna
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. {raw feeding} Beef hearts - new protein for my dogs
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:52 am ((PST))

Ok - I went to our slaughter house Saturday and they loaded me up with a
full bag of liver etc, and 2 boxes full of bones that have the good stuff on
it - like bone marrow inside and the sinew on it - the dogs have a good time
getting the good "stuff" off of it. Should I pick them up after they've
cleaned it to the actual bone?

Next question I got 5 beef hearts - and they're pretty good size and I
figure that I'd give all of my dogs the whole heart. Since this is the
first time for beef heart for them, should I also feed them chicken or turky
or pork with it so they won't get upset tummies over a new meat/muscle?

And I asked the guy that waited on me if they could save me some tripe and
he said that he (I'm assuming that he meant the butcher) doesn't like
cutting it up b/c the tripe is so heavy that he cuts out the whole thing and
just throws it away. Is that just a lazy way out, any argument that I can
make to them to save me some tripe?

Thanks again,
--
Brandi
Bartlesville, Ok

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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11b. Re: {raw feeding} Beef hearts - new protein for my dogs
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:30 am ((PST))

> 2 boxes full of bones that have the good stuff on it - like bone
> marrow inside and the sinew on it - the dogs have a good time
> getting the good "stuff" off of it. Should I pick them up after
> they've cleaned it to the actual bone?

I'm no fan of bare-ish bones, but if your dogs clean the sinew and
such off before tackling the bone you can just take the bone away
once it has been cleaned.

> should I also feed them chicken or turky or pork with it so they
> won't get upset tummies over a new meat/muscle?

Heart is a pretty "rich" meat that can cause loose stools when first
introduced so I'd give a hunk of heart with a bonier piece at first.
My boys absolutely love heart, hopefully your pups will too.

> he (I'm assuming that he meant the butcher) doesn't like cutting it
> up b/c the tripe is so heavy that he cuts out the whole thing and
> just throws it away.

You could ask if they will let you have the whole thing, since they
toss it anyway. There is a bunch of red tape involved when trying to
get green tripe from a butcher, though. IMO it isn't really worth
the effort to try and convince a butcher to give it to me.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (4)
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11c. Re: {raw feeding} Beef hearts - new protein for my dogs
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:37 am ((PST))

"And I asked the guy that waited on me if they could save me some tripe and
he said that he (I'm assuming that he meant the butcher) doesn't like
cutting it up b/c the tripe is so heavy that he cuts out the whole thing and
just throws it away. Is that just a lazy way out, any argument that I can
make to them to save me some tripe?"

Most butchers don't like to deal with tripe has been my experience - it's
big, smelly, and they don't like it. Atleast the butchers I've tried to get
to save it for me.

On the bones, if they are leg bones (teeth breakers) I pick them up when the
meat is gone and I don't let them try to break them open to get the marrow.
All other bones mine consume.

On the beef heart, if you have not fed it before it can be rich - it is
considered a muscle meat and can be fed as whole meals, but I would not give
them a whole one their first time - introduce any new meat source slowly
unless you want the after effects ;-)
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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11d. Re: {raw feeding} Beef hearts - new protein for my dogs
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:57 am ((PST))

Don't know much about the rest of your questions, as most of the
grocers here get their meat ready to sell, but please use restraint
in your initial offerings of beef heart, for your own sake! Foxy
LOOOVES it (no way am I giving any to Sophie yet, she has only just
graduated to pork). However, it is one thing I have offered so far
that, if eaten solo, gives him HORRIBLE cannon butt, meaning I may
get little surprises by the door in the morning if he doesn't also
get a nice drumstick or chicken back with it. These poops are also
dark enough to be scary if you aren't expecting them.

It's good food, but I would offer it sparingly at first, and I would
definitely make sure the rest of the meal is bland, with adequate
bone until they are well-adapted to such rich food. YMMV, of course,
but this is working for me so far. I have heard cubed heart makes
good training treats, too, and I want to get a food dehydrator for
that purpose.

Good luck with the heart. Dogs do like it, just go slowly.

Cheers,

Wendy

Messages in this topic (4)
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12a. Re: Couldn't help ourselves. . .walmart puppy
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:28 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Debi C" <dcole6@...> wrote:
>
> EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.
>
> Kathy you are a doggie angel indeed. That should be a wonderful mix
> breed, both those breeds are highly intelligent and very active.

I'm beginning to see that :) However she seems to be anti-cat. I'm
using a water sqirter to try to train her not to chase, bite, etc. So
far no good. She also tries to dominate my kids. I joinedd a group
for those issues though.

>
> I've found my Jack Russells take more food than the math allows.
> They are very active and run the fat off so they look like two little
> racehorses. All muscle and bone with very little fat. My shorty
> looks like a little Arnold Schwartzenegger. I feed big (lots at a
> time) and they pace themselves well. I'd suggest about a pound a day
> to start with and see what the pup needs and wants.
>

Wow, I'll work up slowly. I don't want problems to be caused by too
much too soon. But I deffinitely see her needing more than an
inactive dog.

Kathy in MO
Angel - Black Lab Holly - Mini Schnauzer x Rat Terrier
Oreo & Turquoise - cats

Messages in this topic (6)
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13a. I need help, Great Dane with just pasta and cooked meat!
Posted by: "Nayelli Di Spalatro" nayellidispalatro@yahoo.com nayellidispalatro
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:21 am ((PST))

Hello all,

I am new in this group and I am desperate looking for
help.

I have a 4 year old Great Dane that is been eating for
about 1 year just pasta and cooked meat, unfortunately
she is starting to loose weight very fast.

She always had problems with her digestion, she never
is fine for more than 2 weeks, even with this diet,
and I am afraid at this point she is undernourished.

When she was a puppy I fed her with cooked chicken and
rice, and she was not able to keep the food down so
the vet said that probably she was allergic to chicken
(he never made any test), so I stop feeding her like
that.

Later on, I tried raw food and I got really scared
because she swallowed the complete bone and then
vomiting complete it too, so I change the food again.

This has been the story of her life, I am ready to
change into raw food but I have a lot of questions
before, I hope you can help:

1. Should I get rid of the pasta and switch right
away? (I now if I do it gradually is going to be the
same, every change is an impact for her)
2. Should I tried turkey or ground beef and just that,
no fruit, no veggies not nothing? If I do the ground
beef where I can get the bones that she needs?
3. What can I do to help her with the bones, can I
crush them?
4. Does apple cider help?, I read that you can soak
the bones.
5. Also, I read about pumpkin for firm stools, if so,
should I start giving the raw pumpkin now, or should I
keep it simple.
6. Where can I find the turkey bones? can I buy it at
Walmart? I live in New York city and it is really
expensive to buy in the regular butcher.
7. Have you ever heard about Nature's Variety Raw Food
Diets, they have a venison raw frozen food that looks
great, and because I am afraid to not feed her enough
(as now), I would like to know if it is good, do you
recommend that kind of food?

I am really sorry but all this questions but I feel
really bad and I want to fix my mistake as soon as
possible.

Thank you very much for you help.

Nayelli

____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Messages in this topic (3)
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13b. Re: I need help, Great Dane with just pasta and cooked meat!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:42 am ((PST))

Hi, Nayelli, welcome to the group! I'm sure we'll be able to get
your girl's problems ironed out with everyone helping.

> 1. Should I get rid of the pasta and switch right away?

Absolutely switch right away. The poor girl is probably starving for
all the good nutrition that a raw diet can offer her. Know that
there is a possibility of loose stools during the change, but if you
take it easy and don't let it scare you she'll adjust just fine.

> 2. Should I tried turkey or ground beef and just that, no fruit, no
> veggies not nothing?

Don't start with ground, start with whole foods. It is unlikely she
is allergic to raw chicken so it would be easiest to start with whole
chickens. If you don't want to make that leap yet you can get a
whole turkey and ask the butcher to cut it into quarters for you. No
veggies or fruits are needed.

> 3. What can I do to help her with the bones, can I crush them?

She'll handle them on her own. I know it is scary but you need to
believe that she can do it. Feed her big foods that she needs to rip
tear and crunch into. Don't feed bite sized pieces that she will be
tempted to swallow whole.

> 4. Does apple cider help?, I read that you can soak the bones.

No need to soak bones, they are plenty soft in their raw state.

> 5. Also, I read about pumpkin for firm stools,

Pumpkin acts as a band aid for the real problem. It's best to let
the loose stools be if you encounter them and adjust the diet so they
don't return.

> 6. Where can I find the turkey bones? can I buy it at Walmart? I
> live in New York city and it is really expensive to buy in the
> regular butcher.

Get whole turkeys so you don't have to try and buy bones. Check with
independant groceries to see if they will purchase bulk items for
you. Hopefully some of the New Yorkers on the list can help you find
good sources.

> 7. Have you ever heard about Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets,

Prefabricated foods have lots of unnecessary ingredients in them, are
ground, and are extremely expensive. Since your girl already has
proven to have a sensitive stomach I suggest you stick with whole
food items. I know that ground food sounds like the answer for a dog
who wants to gulp their food but it is the opposite of what you
want. Feed big so she has to work for her food.

> I am really sorry but all this questions but I feel really bad and
> I want to fix my mistake as soon as possible.

Don't be sorry for the questions, we were all new once. It's great
that you are willing to admit past mistakes and change things to make
it better. Ask as many questions as you need.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (3)
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13c. Re: I need help, Great Dane with just pasta and cooked meat!
Posted by: "nayellidispalatro" nayellidispalatro@yahoo.com nayellidispalatro
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:18 am ((PST))

Thank you very much Andrea, you do not know how bad I feel now knowing that I was
completely wrong, she is my beautiful baby and I feel ashamed of what I have been doing
to her.

I am going to be back on January 2nd, she is with a pet sitter, I read that is a good option
to let her fast for a day and then start with the raw food, should I ask him not to feed her
the last day, so when I come back I start with the raw?

So, let me see if I understood, I go, buy the whole turkey, ask the butcher to cut it in
parts, take out the skin and give it to her? how much, she is more or less 100 pounds.

Also, do you think is a good idea to give her some kind of vitamins because she was not
getting enough? or the raw diet is going to be enough?

How can I make it more tasteful, I know her and I am sure that she is going to look at me
and ask "what is this?"

I feel that this is a little bit a lot of people is been searching for months, and I just make
the decision last night, I really do not want to make any mistake, I am really afraid.

Thank you very much again, I am going to keep asking to all of you.

Nayelli

I read also that it will be good to
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Nayelli, welcome to the group! I'm sure we'll be able to get
> your girl's problems ironed out with everyone helping.
>
> > 1. Should I get rid of the pasta and switch right away?
>
> Absolutely switch right away. The poor girl is probably starving for
> all the good nutrition that a raw diet can offer her. Know that
> there is a possibility of loose stools during the change, but if you
> take it easy and don't let it scare you she'll adjust just fine.
>
> > 2. Should I tried turkey or ground beef and just that, no fruit, no
> > veggies not nothing?
>
> Don't start with ground, start with whole foods. It is unlikely she
> is allergic to raw chicken so it would be easiest to start with whole
> chickens. If you don't want to make that leap yet you can get a
> whole turkey and ask the butcher to cut it into quarters for you. No
> veggies or fruits are needed.
>
> > 3. What can I do to help her with the bones, can I crush them?
>
> She'll handle them on her own. I know it is scary but you need to
> believe that she can do it. Feed her big foods that she needs to rip
> tear and crunch into. Don't feed bite sized pieces that she will be
> tempted to swallow whole.
>
> > 4. Does apple cider help?, I read that you can soak the bones.
>
> No need to soak bones, they are plenty soft in their raw state.
>
> > 5. Also, I read about pumpkin for firm stools,
>
> Pumpkin acts as a band aid for the real problem. It's best to let
> the loose stools be if you encounter them and adjust the diet so they
> don't return.
>
> > 6. Where can I find the turkey bones? can I buy it at Walmart? I
> > live in New York city and it is really expensive to buy in the
> > regular butcher.
>
> Get whole turkeys so you don't have to try and buy bones. Check with
> independant groceries to see if they will purchase bulk items for
> you. Hopefully some of the New Yorkers on the list can help you find
> good sources.
>
> > 7. Have you ever heard about Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets,
>
> Prefabricated foods have lots of unnecessary ingredients in them, are
> ground, and are extremely expensive. Since your girl already has
> proven to have a sensitive stomach I suggest you stick with whole
> food items. I know that ground food sounds like the answer for a dog
> who wants to gulp their food but it is the opposite of what you
> want. Feed big so she has to work for her food.
>
> > I am really sorry but all this questions but I feel really bad and
> > I want to fix my mistake as soon as possible.
>
> Don't be sorry for the questions, we were all new once. It's great
> that you are willing to admit past mistakes and change things to make
> it better. Ask as many questions as you need.
>
> Andrea
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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14a. Re: my dog hates venison!
Posted by: "johnsonkp200" sunfiretervs@comcast.net johnsonkp200
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:21 am ((PST))

Thanks for suggestions, but so far none have worked. Last night I
seared a couple chunks and sprinkled on a little garlic salt. He ate a
little, but not all which was not even one meal's worth. Will try
putting some real butter in the pan tonight and sear another chunk. I
want him to like venison - I have 2 rib sections and two very meaty
necks waiting, and can likely get more each fall.

New question: How long can I keep offering it now that it is thawed and
in refrig? It has already been thawed about a week.

Karen

Messages in this topic (6)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12420

There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: First time shopping for raw - -wishme luck
From: anjaleck
1b. Re: First time shopping for raw - -wishme luck
From: carnesbill
1c. Re: First time shopping for raw - -wishme luck
From: anjaleck

2a. Re: How long do I wait....
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: How long do I wait....
From: Maggie Smith
2c. Re: How long do I wait....
From: Sandee Lee
2d. Re: How long do I wait....
From: katkellm
2e. Re: How long do I wait....
From: T Smith

3a. Newbie to raw
From: Gaye Amick

4a. New to this - what do you think?
From: Darjeelingirl
4b. Re: New to this - what do you think?
From: Sandee Lee

5a. Re: Need a logical response
From: Caitlin

6a. Re: my dog hates venison!
From: Yasuko herron
6b. Re: my dog hates venison!
From: Heather

7a. Re: dehydrated raw
From: Caitlin

8. Re-introduce proteins after hiatus??
From: Heidi

9a. Re: Raw and vacations
From: Yasuko herron

10a. Advice on diahrrea?
From: Carrin
10b. Re: Advice on diahrrea?
From: carnesbill
10c. Re: Advice on diahrrea?
From: ed_khang

11a. Re: Female infections from raw bacteria - Question
From: Kathy

12. Staffordshire bull
From: Yenna

Messages
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1a. Re: First time shopping for raw - -wishme luck
Posted by: "anjaleck" anjaleck@gmail.com anjaleck
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:39 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "salvinop73" <psalvino@...> wrote:

Hi, Pete,

Thanks for this information. We are very new to raw and were
wondering where to purchase in bulk. We have two mastiffs and 5
rescues so we are going to be needing a lot of supplies. We figured
out we're going to have to buy another freezer! *grin*

Thanks again,
Anj

Messages in this topic (7)
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1b. Re: First time shopping for raw - -wishme luck
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:01 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "anjaleck" <anjaleck@...> wrote:
>
> We are very new to raw and were
> wondering where to purchase in bulk.

I have always had good luck buying in bulk from small independent
grocery stores that sell meat. Go by in person and speak to either
the owner or meat manager. Explain to them that they can just add
your order to their order and they don't have to unpack or do
anything to your order. They just let you know when it will arrive
and you will pick it up. All they have to do is unload it from the
truck and put it in their cooler. Tell them that you will be buying
a couple of hundred pounds a month from them. (It doesn't matter if
you don't buy quite that much but this will peak their interest.)

I have developed a relationship with a store near me and I call on
the phone and place my order on a Monday morning and pick it up on
Thursday afternoon. He marks up very little because he has no
expense in handling it. I order chicken backs, turkey necks, turkey
wings, beef heart, and chicken drumsticks(for the cats). I can
still get chicken quarters from Walmart cheaper than he can get them
for me.

Chain grocers aren't able to do this for you because they have no
proceedure set up to handle them and they can't order anything that
they don't stock in their own warehouses.

Yes, you will need a freezer just for the dogs. When I pick up an
order, I let them thaw and pack them in zip locks in the size for a
meal. I use a lot of quart and gallon size ziplocks. Yes I reuse
them until they start to leak too bad.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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1c. Re: First time shopping for raw - -wishme luck
Posted by: "anjaleck" anjaleck@gmail.com anjaleck
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:32 pm ((PST))

I use a lot of quart and gallon size ziplocks. Yes I reuse
> them until they start to leak too bad.

LOL... I do too!

Thanks for the info, Bill.
Hugs,
Anj

Messages in this topic (7)
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2a. Re: How long do I wait....
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:46 pm ((PST))

"T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> BUt I thought fish was a "have to" in raw?
> Am I mistaken?
*****
Yes.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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2b. Re: How long do I wait....
Posted by: "Maggie Smith" redkeds@comcast.net redkeds1
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:50 pm ((PST))

Nope - not a have to, but nice if they like it.

Rufus and Mickey love their fish, esp. salmon - Oliver won't touch it.

If their coats are lacking or they have itchiness going on, you can
give fish oil supps, otherwise, you can easily skip it and on to
other things they will eat.

Maggie, Rufus, Oliver and Mickey

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> BUt I thought fish was a "have to" in raw?
> Am I mistaken?
>
> On Dec 25, 2007 12:24 PM, Sandee Lee <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> > Some dogs just don't like fish. I've never been one to force my
dogs to
> > eat something they didn't like. Mine aren't picky, they eat about
> > everything but when there is something they truly don't like, it
gets
> > taken
> > off the menu (rabbit in our case)!!
> >
> > Sandee & the Dane Gang
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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2c. Re: How long do I wait....
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:19 pm ((PST))

I don't know why you would think that. It's just another source of
protein...nothing magical about it and not necessary.

My guys will eat the "stinkier" fish...salmon, mackerel, albacore, etc., but
none of that bland white stuff! :))

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "T Smith" <coldbeach@gmail.com>

> BUt I thought fish was a "have to" in raw?
> Am I mistaken?

Messages in this topic (8)
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2d. Re: How long do I wait....
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:31 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
> I mentioned about the fish & kidney, it is now their second meal they
> refused to eat it.
> Shall I chop it up & mix it with something at donner or "just wait them

Hi Trina,
Are you trying to feed them together? Its not that there is a
nutritional or health reason not to, its just fish is one of those
iffy things with lots of dogs and kidney might be thought of kind of
the same. I guess my point is if i was going to wait it out, i'd do
it with one thing and not both. My dogs are not picky eaters, so when
none of them were very willing to eat fish, i just removed it from the
menu. Kidney, 2 of my 3 liked, and so the third one learned to eat
it, too. KathyM

Messages in this topic (8)
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2e. Re: How long do I wait....
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:54 pm ((PST))

Thank You.
I will pawn the fish off to the other dogs & see if I don't have to throw it
away!
Trina

On Dec 25, 2007 1:23 PM, katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Trina,
> Are you trying to feed them together? Its not that there is a
> nutritional or health reason not to, its just fish is one of those
> iffy things with lots of dogs and kidney might be thought of kind of
> the same. I guess my point is if i was going to wait it out, i'd do
> it with one thing and not both. My dogs are not picky eaters, so when
> none of them were very willing to eat fish, i just removed it from the
> menu. Kidney, 2 of my 3 liked, and so the third one learned to eat
> it, too. KathyM
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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3a. Newbie to raw
Posted by: "Gaye Amick" northernskychar@netzero.com northernskyacademy
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:01 pm ((PST))

Hello everyone

My ten month old Malinois has been a prescription Vension and Potatoe
Kibble from the vet. for the past six months. Since she has IBD I'm
wondering instead of starting her out on chicken if I should start her
out on vension or buffalo to make the transition easier/better.

Thanks for the imput.
Gaye

Messages in this topic (9)
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4a. New to this - what do you think?
Posted by: "Darjeelingirl" darjeelingirl@comcast.net zoookeeeper
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:26 pm ((PST))

I have just started raw feeding my beagle puppy, Sherlock, 4 months, and 2
cats, Cuthbert 10yrs and Snickers 5yrs. The puppy has no problem with it
and thinks life is grand. The other day I bought a bunch of chicken legs,
pork feet, pork shoulders, turkey giblets, beef liver, and beef cuts of some
kind, and some beef bones with meat on them at the local corner grocery.
Some of the items were marked "beef bone - for dogs" etc. Whatever I could
find at this store that was reasonably priced. I hope to buy more, less
expensive, and better meat with a buying group in January. I'm new to this
meat thing, being a vegan myself. However, when I got home I made Ziplocs
of a little chicken, beef, pork, and turkey in each bag - up to about 1 lb
per bag as my puppy is 14lbs at the time. Then I put them in the freezer
such that I can pull out one bag per day for the dog. I think I have about
2 weeks worth of meals. How does that sound for a start? I know I need to
vary the types of meat and include bone. Is there anything GREATLY amiss
here? The puppy's poo looks like it's coming out just fine, and he doesn't
seem to have any problems going out to go.

On the other hand, after 10 and 5 years respectively on kibble, the cats
think I'm off my rocker - or messing with them. They nibbled slightly at
the beef liver and a little *cooked* chicken on day 1 (I haven't cooked
anything since), but won't touch anything else. They're still meowing for
the kibble (Newman's Own Organic). I've always had to put water in the
kibble for them, otherwise they barf it up 10 minutes later (I know that's
because it expands in their stomachs) so I'm thinking I may have to go to
ground meat for them for a while? Cuthbert has terrible teeth due to the
kibble and I'm looking forward to getting him chewing some raw meat and
bones soon. I think he'll be easier since he's overweight from eating
Snickers' food whenever he can - so he's a big eater. Snickers is not a big
eater to begin with, though. However, they haven't eaten any of it yet even
though I've left it out for them and have not offered any kibble. Do you
think they will get hungry enough and give in or should I do something
differently?

As I'm just starting this - on day 4 to be exact - I just thought I'd share
and ask for any input.

Thanks and Happy Holidays,

Patsy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. Re: New to this - what do you think?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:12 pm ((PST))

Hi Patsy,

First and most importantly...FEED YOUR CATS!!! Sorry to shout, but this is
so important. You cannot starve cats into submission...especially an
overweight cat. They can develop liver failure and you could end up with a
dead cat. :( So go feed them...doesn't matter if it's kibble, whatever they
will eat, feed them!

Then come back and we'll talk about your puppy...what a cute name!! :))

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Darjeelingirl" <darjeelingirl@comcast.net>

> However, they haven't eaten any of it yet even
> though I've left it out for them and have not offered any kibble. Do you
> think they will get hungry enough and give in or should I do something
> differently?

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Need a logical response
Posted by: "Caitlin" caitlin@baileyridgedogs.com fancyfacepoms
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:18 pm ((PST))

I had a similar incident with my 6 pound Pom and a piece of chicken
gizzards a few years back. I was slicing and dicing them because she's a
gulper, and sure enough, clumsy me dropped a whole chunk on the floor
and little vacuum dog was right there to inhale it. My hands (even as
freakishly small as they are...lol) are much too big to shove down a
Pomeranian's throat and to this day I'm really not sure how I got the
piece out, but I did, and I stayed remarkably calm.

Good job on staying relatively calm and getting the piece out - I know
how scary that is!!

My parents really didn't want me feeding raw after that incident as
well, but we just had to make sure that if she got something boneless,
we basically have to chop it really little, or give her a piece that's
bigger than her head and keep a close eye on her (a, so she doesn't eat
it all, because she would GLADLY eat an entire chicken in one sitting,
and b, so we can pry it away from her when it gets to be too small
because we don't trust her)

And I'm really not exaggerating about the eating an entire chicken
thing... she really is a bottomless pit. Back in the day when we were
feeding those doom nuggets, she hopped over the barricade we had around
the big dog's food, sat IN the bowl, and proceeded to eat ALL 6 cups in
the bowl, and when she tried to jump out of the bowl, she knocked the
barricade over with her big fat belly and made a whole lot of racket and
then laid at the bottom of the stairs belly up (no, not dead... that's
how she sleeps!) with all feet in the air for the next day or two.

I was more surprised at the fact she was able to make the jump than the
fact she was able to eat all the food. I should've named her Hoover. :)

Your husband (and you!) will get back to your original comfort level
over time. Just work with your old guy's needs, and you'll be okay. My
parents have even taken to dishing out some of the meals and watching in
amazement at my 4 and 6 pound dogs crunching chicken wings, rather than
freaking out that they're going to choke.

Caitlin
BaileyRidge Poms

Messages in this topic (7)
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6a. Re: my dog hates venison!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:18 pm ((PST))

My dog needed little "getting used to flavor" sort of time on Elk(venison).

I ribborned the meat from rib(still attached to bone part),and gradually,she started eating without mt help. She can eat bone all too.

As for heart,boneless Elk meat,she had no prob,just the rib part meat.Not sure why.

And,I made sure it be served at room temp.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (5)
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6b. Re: my dog hates venison!
Posted by: "Heather" newbeginnings06@gmail.com malignstar
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:24 pm ((PST))

Venison is a very gamey, smelly meat, and maybe your dog just doesn't
like it. My beagle will not touch rabbit, frog legs or fish when
thawed because if the gooey, slimy texture. He will eat half frozen
fish but still not rabbit or frog. I don't push him to eat anything he
shows me he doesn't like (which isn't much).

Heather

Messages in this topic (5)
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7a. Re: dehydrated raw
Posted by: "Caitlin" caitlin@baileyridgedogs.com fancyfacepoms
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:19 pm ((PST))

I'll admit - I have tried the Honest Kitchen with my Poms, and my aunt's
Labs (whom I was living with at the time.) We were a family of very
hectic schedules for a few months and yes, we took the "easy way out".
Although it was just about as convenient as that ick-in-a-bag, it was
nearly 3 times more expensive than the Timberwolf organics kibble I had
switched from. That was red flag #1.

Red flag #2 - there was nothing chewable! My poms just licked their
bowls clean and their teeth got icky, even with giving bones.

Red flag #3, and the reason we got all of the dogs off of it - the
yellow Lab was sent into a SEVERE allergic reaction to the stuff. She
was scratching off fur, chewing her feet, scratching her ears, and her
muzzle was covered in bloody pustules which only cleared up after
completely removing the Honest Kitchen, eradicating ANY poultry, and a
round of Chinese Herbs and a prescribed glandular from the holistic vet.
The other three dogs were relatively okay on it, but we didn't want to
take the chance of Lacey getting into it and being back to the itchies.

The only upside was when we went camping (before the allergic
reaction... when we first tried this) it was really handy. And if I'm at
a 3 or 4 day long dog show out of state, I may pick up a couple of the
sample bags and haul it with me... but never ever would I make it a main
staple of their regular diet and that's just based on my experience with
it when feeding it to Lacey.

I much prefer knowing EXACTLY what is going in their bodies. No
ingredient list, no nutrition facts panel... just muscle, organ and bone.

Caitlin
BaileyRidge Poms

Messages in this topic (6)
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8. Re-introduce proteins after hiatus??
Posted by: "Heidi" troopob@yahoo.com troopob
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:20 pm ((PST))

Is it necessary to re-introduce a protein if it hasn't been fed for
several weeks (6 weeks)? I was lucky enough to get a couple coolers
full of venison and lamb over Thanksgiving from my mom. After I fed
through that, I went back to chicken and pork. Holy white watery
squirts, Buttman!! The two corgis had little issues- a little loose
is all for a day, but Deke the Berner had cannon butt galore - and he
spins in a circle when he does it. Luckily, only one incident was in
the house - on the chair, wall, table, desk, down the heater vent - OH
BOY!! Got to test out my new Bissell SpotBot's fullest capabilities -
not bad -better than the full sized Bissel steam cleaner.

So back to small amounts of chicken breast. I think it is the fat in
the pork??? that causes this??

Thanks for any input,
Heidi and Deke
sick of the stinky butt

Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Re: Raw and vacations
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:21 pm ((PST))

>I just got back from a 10 day family vacation with my papillon andportioned out ziplocks, dry ice and a cooler worked very well. just had to remember to thaw the food :)

Hi,I found this thread and I wanted to add my post to this since I found good experience about travel with raw meat.

I live in VA and for holiday,we traveled 12 hours to Indiana which is where I am now in.

We thawed only first day meal and others are solid frozen.

Before we leave for IN,I bagged meal in each freezer bag with date on it so that i know which bag to pull out one day before feeding.

Then,I used cooler and placed couple o f Gelpak which I got from suppliers box during course of getting food items to stock up and then,placed bagged frozen meal on top,then Gelpak on it some and closed and,did not use ice at all.

I was not sure how well it would be lookkig after long drive but the food was still frozen solid as well as Gelpak.And,I am satisfied with result.

The freezer bag is having bits of organ in some bags too so,all I do is,borrow in law's fridge to thaw and dump the food in matt we brought from home to feed and, it is very easy.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (9)
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10a. Advice on diahrrea?
Posted by: "Carrin" mntgrl_2000@yahoo.com mntgrl_2000
Date: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:21 pm ((PST))

We are new to raw feeding. Our dog has been on raw for about 8 days
now. Things, stool wise, seemed to be going well at first. Yesterday,
I noticed his stool was SUPER runny....almost watery.

He has been getting chicken backs and beef cheeks. Is this a normal
stage, or should I try just sticking to one protein source for a
while? If so, which one would be best (we have a huge bulk of backs
and cheeks)? I know that backs don't have a lot of meat to them, but I
also know that the bones will help thicken the stools a bit....right?

Thanks,
Carrin

Messages in this topic (3)
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10b. Re: Advice on diahrrea?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:12 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carrin" <mntgrl_2000@...> wrote:
>
> I noticed his stool was SUPER runny....almost watery.
>
> He has been getting chicken backs and beef cheeks.

I would feed just backs until the stools firm up. Then after a week
of firm stools, start to slowly add other protein sources. I
wouldn't add beef for several weeks. I prefer chicken first, then
turkey, then pork, THEN beef, then fish, then whatever else. It's
not necessary to go exactly in that order but it's the order I
prefer based on my perception of ease of digestion.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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10c. Re: Advice on diahrrea?
Posted by: "ed_khang" ed_khang@yahoo.com ed_khang
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:57 am ((PST))

Battling diarrhea was a nightmare for me.

I found that starting with a single lean protein with bone helped. I
wouldn't go too heavy with bone, as you might get the opposite problem
and seesaw back and forth.

Best bet is chicken breast with rib bones. Most grocers have "frier
breasts" Or "Half Breasts" with the rib meat. Peel off all the skin
and remove all the fat. Feed with bones. Then as the stools firm up,
slowly remove a little less fat and skin with each meal until you can
feed it with all the skin and fat on. Also feed smaller portions at
first. Really big meals can lead to loose stools too.

I would then move to leg quarters with the same technique of removing
all fat and skin then slowly adding them in.

So when diarrhea hits, remember. Feed small and lean. Slowly
increase from there.

Hope that helps,
-Ed

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carrin" <mntgrl_2000@...> wrote:
>
> We are new to raw feeding. Our dog has been on raw for about 8 days
> now. Things, stool wise, seemed to be going well at first. Yesterday,
> I noticed his stool was SUPER runny....almost watery.
>
> He has been getting chicken backs and beef cheeks. Is this a normal
> stage, or should I try just sticking to one protein source for a
> while? If so, which one would be best (we have a huge bulk of backs
> and cheeks)? I know that backs don't have a lot of meat to them, but I
> also know that the bones will help thicken the stools a bit....right?
>
> Thanks,
> Carrin
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. Re: Female infections from raw bacteria - Question
Posted by: "Kathy" xanadu8@insightbb.com aresblue2000
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:12 am ((PST))

Hi,
Is your dog a puppy? Vaginitis is common in young females especially before the first heat cycle. My vet said sitting on the ground could cause it. Some females are more prone than others. I don't believe raw diet was the cause.
Kathy L.

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12. Staffordshire bull
Posted by: "Yenna" fifofifo51@yahoo.com fifofifo51
Date: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:12 am ((PST))

Hi, all the best for the year 2008.
We just got a staffie from the refuge, he's a 1 year old neutered male.
I made some research on the net and found the "raw diet" forum, I fell
in love with the idea, it makes so much sense.
He's a 30Lbs dog, how much should I feed him? 1Lb, 2Lb, once a day,
twice a day? any feedback welcome.

Cheers
Yenna

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