Feed Pets Raw Food: Sep 8, 2007

Saturday, September 8, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12017

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Help!
From: czab_ca
1.2. Re: Help!
From: costrowski75
1.3. Re: Help!
From: Yasuko herron
1.4. Re: Help!
From: Morledzep@aol.com

2a. Re: Situation
From: Yasuko herron

3a. Large dog with diarrhea for a few days....
From: pitty_pat1
3b. Re: Large dog with diarrhea for a few days....
From: Sandee Lee
3c. Re: Large dog with diarrhea for a few days....
From: Yasuko herron

4. [OT] File under - what will they think of next?
From: Bearhair

5a. Veal Raw Meaty Bones
From: * shadygrove
5b. Re: Veal Raw Meaty Bones
From: costrowski75
5c. Re: Veal Raw Meaty Bones
From: Morledzep@aol.com

6a. Time for a new vet
From: Ivette Casiano
6b. Re: Time for a new vet
From: Sandee Lee
6c. Time for a new vet
From: joan spencer

7. my dog is not eating...
From: deep_ocean_of_sorrow

8. fish body oil
From: Yasuko herron

9. Salmon oil questions
From: pigasus718

10a. Re: fatty ribs. . .
From: pigasus718

11a. Re: Rookie Questions
From: linoleum5017

12a. Re: Rabbit.... is it just me??
From: linoleum5017

13. are hearts good meat?
From: quiltingtuppy

14. Re: puppy throws up and soft stools
From: Jocelyn Groner

15a. Re: [Raw Feeding] Come to the dark side
From: linoleum5017

16a. Re: raw feeding for 2 years, suddenly very sick * update-looks like
From: Trish

Messages
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1.1. Help!
Posted by: "czab_ca" czab_ca@yahoo.com czab_ca
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 6:17 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone,

I just joined the list to start feeding my dog raw food. I have a 30
lb. Shiba Inu, and for the last 2 weeks, I've been mixing either
chicken or beef with his kibble food. I'm going to start feeding him
just raw this week, but I don't know how much to feed him each day.
Also, does he need to eat bones everyday?

Thanks for your help.

Chrystine

Messages in this topic (38)
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1.2. Re: Help!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 7:50 pm ((PDT))

"czab_ca" <czab_ca@...> wrote:
>
> I just joined the list to start feeding my dog raw food.
*****
And such a good decision that was! Welcome.

I have a 30
> lb. Shiba Inu, and for the last 2 weeks, I've been mixing either
> chicken or beef with his kibble food. I'm going to start feeding him
> just raw this week,
****
Yes! Job one is to ditch the kibble. Don't feed through it, don't
wean him off it, just ditch the stuff. Donate it to a shelter that
needs all the support it can get.

but I don't know how much to feed him each day.
*****
You need to do some archive browsing. With luck, Giselle will send you
a message with message links to die for, which will make your reading
ever so much easier. But even if she does not, please browse the list
archives, joining Yahoogroups to do so. It's easy, it's fun.

It would not be inappropriate to feed him somewhere around 2% or 3% of
his ideal adult weight. That's a good enough starting range but your
dog is the final answer, so stay attuned to his energy level, shape,
attitude and general health, and adjust however you need to keep him
looking spiffy.

> Also, does he need to eat bones everyday?
*****
Nope. Some dogs "do better" with some bone in the daily diet, some
dogs do better with bones fed fairly infrequently. From a nutrition
perspective, your dog needs a remarkably small amount of edible bone--
10%-15%. So how much you feed every day is not a nutrition issue but,
poerhaps, a digestion issue. And how much your boy should get when is
really a decision that you and he have to make together.

Some people recommend starting off feeding pretty large daily doses of
bone, mostly to prevent the dog from producing the loose stools that
many beginning raw feeders are unprepared to deal with. (Not their
fault: the dogfood industry certainly drums it into us that stools--in
order to be healthy--must be firm and dense and above all uniform.)

If you would feel more comfortable feeding daily bone, you certainly
may although it's just as possible for a dog to get constipated
from "too much" bone as it is for it to produce loose stools from "too
little" bone. It's a give and take, push and pull, up and down, in and
out, yin and yang sort of equilibrium you will finally achieve when you
and your dog figure out how much bone is "good".

But you will, really.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (38)
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1.3. Re: Help!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 8:05 pm ((PDT))

> I have a 30lb. Shiba Inu, and for the last 2 weeks,

Hi! Welcome to list. You have Japanese dog:-P That is great! Did you know "Inu" means dog?

> I've been mixing either chicken or beef with his kibble food.

Anyway, so,past 2 weeks,you been feeding chicken+kibble or Beef+kibble?? Meat is raw?
Did you know that dog digestive system works differently to kibble and meat?
So,mixing up meat with kibble in one sitting is not good idea.

why not start from just one protin source without kibble? You can start from Beef if you want.You can start from chicken.Stick to one source for a week or so or till dog digestive system works fine;until you see no poo prob.Most people start from chicken,but in the past,I read someone started from Lamb.It is up to you.

> I'm going to start feeding him just raw this week,

oh,ok.That is better.

>I don't know how much to feed him each day.

2-3% of ideal weight and meal consists of 80% meat,10% bone,10% organ.But % is going to be adjusted depending on if you have less activedog or highly active dog etc..but it is just starting point.

Basically 90% meat (this means,mostly meat with little bone in the meal),and organ 10%.

>Also, does he need to eat bones everyday?

I think that dog needs bone somwhere because it is good calcium source and it helps firm up the poo,but too much bone is not good. Cause of constipation.Diet rely more on meat than bone. if the meat had bit of bone,it is good to go.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (38)
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1.4. Re: Help!
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 8:50 pm ((PDT))

Chrystine

I just joined the list to start feeding my dog raw food. I have a 30
lb. Shiba Inu,

***HI.. welcome.. i love Japanese dogs, but my favorite is akita. But i
certainly wouldn't walk away from a shiba if it needed me..

and for the last 2 weeks, I've been mixing either
chicken or beef with his kibble food. I'm going to start feeding him
just raw this week.

***Mixing raw and kibble is a recipe for digestive upset. Going ahead with
all raw sooner rather than later is a GOOD thing.

, but I don't know how much to feed him each day. Also, does he need to eat
bones everyday?

***you want to figure out what 2 - 3% of his ideal adult weight is.. i think
30 lbs is about average.. if not on the high side for a shiba, but as i've
never lived with one i'm not sure.

bones do NOT need to be fed every day.. neither do organs. the entire
overall diet should consist of 10% EDIBLE bones, and 10% organs and 80% everything
else.. but don't get hung up on percentages..

think of it this way, MEAT, fat, meat, skin and such, delivered either on a
bone or off, and some organs once in awhile.. it's really very simple once you
get the hang of it.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (38)
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2a. Re: Situation
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 6:17 pm ((PDT))

>Ok, Bengal has been eating chicken fine this till week, he wont touch
>it. He just will not touch anything raw since he got hurt on Wednesday at
>the dog park. We had an ER visit and were up all night with him
>screaming in pain and uncomfortable, so of course he did not eat and
>he did not eat on thursday (or at least much) since we had a regular
>vet visit and more morphine.

Hi. Look at http://www.dogaware.com/misc.html and it says if you see any of the change o f appetite,talk to your vet.

When I read your post,I thought,maybe dog not feeling well,so,not eating. Like nausea or some sort. Your dog act fine??

You maybe can consult with your vet and ask what is going on for your dog loosing appetite after prescribed Morphine. The vet may help you better.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

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Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Large dog with diarrhea for a few days....
Posted by: "pitty_pat1" pitty.pat1@gmail.com pitty_pat1
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 6:17 pm ((PDT))

Hi....I'm pretty new to the group, I've never posted before, but I
have a problem and I hope you all can help.

I have a 95 lbs. Lab/Retriever/Husky/Collie mix. He's always had a
bit of a sensitive digestive tract. We tried for 5 years to find a
food that would work for him, we never really did, until we discovered
raw feeding. It made so much sense we decided to give it a try.
Since we've been feeding him raw, he's not had diarrhea nearly as
much. Every now and then he'd have a problem, but if we fasted him
and/or gave him some yogurt, it would usually clear up in a day or so.

The problem is that he has had diarrhea for probably 6 days now.
There was one day....2 days ago....that he did have some solid stool,
but it was immediately followed by liquid. I cut out meat three days
ago to try to give his system a break, and for two days he got yogurt,
an apple, and a raw egg. The day after I did that was the day we had
the partially solid bowel movement. But we were gone most of the day
today, and came home to a liquid mess by the door. I don't know what
else to do. I will take him to the vet if I have to, my only
reservation is that my vet will give me a hard time about the raw
diet. They are convinced and determined to convince me that I'm a
horrible pet parent. My goal is to find a vet that is at least
tolerant of it, if not supportive, but we are moving out of state in 2
weeks, so I'm going to look for one there. In the mean time, I'm
stuck with one who I know will give me a hard time. The reason I
haven't taken him to the vet is because:
a. he's not vomiting
b. there's no blood or worms in the stool
c. his appetite is fine
d. his behavior is completely normal....not at all lethargic or
unhappy
My current plan is to fast him for 2 days. No meat, no yogurt, no
apples.....nothing....just water. I feel so mean doing that, but I
can't imagine how uncomfortable he is having had diarrhea so long.

As for what could have triggered it, I only have 2 ideas, neither of
which seem to be likely, but I want to make sure you have as much
information as possible. The first thing is that he seems to all of a
sudden....in the past week or two have fleas. We don't keep him on
flea preventative all the time. I will use it if the need arises, but
I don't like putting chemicals on him if it isn't necessary. He's not
infested, we've looked and only actually found one, but he seems very
itchy. I did put a natural flea treatment on him that had cinnamon
oil in it among other things. It seemed to work last time when we
found a couple of ticks, but it may not be as effective on fleas.
Could a few fleas cause a week of diarrhea?? The only other thing we
could come up with is that he will "hoover" cat food crumbs. He
doesn't get into their bowl, but if he's sitting near where they eat,
he cleans up the crumbs. Could that small of an amount of cat food
upset his system that much??

OK...if you got through all of that, THANK YOU! I know it was a book.
Can anyone help me and poor Reilly? Thank you in advance for any
help you can offer!

Laura

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Large dog with diarrhea for a few days....
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 7:33 pm ((PDT))

Laura,

Maybe it would help if you tell us exactly what are you feeding as part of
your raw diet. You said you cut out meat...what else are you feeding?

Yogurt, apple and raw egg would increase diarrhea.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "pitty_pat1" <pitty.pat1@gmail.com>

Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: Large dog with diarrhea for a few days....
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 7:54 pm ((PDT))

>I have a 95 lbs. Lab/Retriever/Husky/Collie mix. Every now and then he'd have a problem, >but if we fasted him and/or gave him some yogurt, it would usually clear up in a day or so.

Hi,Laura.You may want to look at getting Slippery Elm@powder or probiotic to help diarrhea prob rather than feeding yogurt because it isdairy and too much dairy worsen the prob sometimes.

But,when you say diarrhea,is it watery uncontrollable? Or just loose? If it were loosepoo,you can add more bone,and it should help to firm up the poo.

And,too much food at one sitting,too much fat in the meal,too much new things in meal or too new thing too soon are typical cause of diarrhea. Any cause you could think of??

Raw feeding is not racing competition so,you feed your dog with baby step attitude,and go slow,be patient to add new thing.And always make sure you add only 1 new thing at a time to make your detective work easy( that way,easy to find cause of prob,and easy to tweak).

> and for two days he got yogurt,an apple, and a raw egg.

Ok,here I see some prob. But first,how long are you feeding raw?

If you were relatively new and already adding raw Egg,it could worsen the poo prob.Pull it out for now. and again,Yogurt;Dairy,maybe cause of prob too.Apple;dog cannot digest very well,so,pull it out.

Now you may ask what should I feed then?

I say,go back to basic. Feed chicken (if your dog did well on it) after fasting,and wait till digestive prob back to normal.

Don't feed Egg till the dogs digestive system gets better and be sure dog can handle it well,because raw Egg,raw liver can cause loose stool.

And,if you feed chicken as is,and still had prob,try get fat skin off and see how the dog does and if he did ok,then,leave the skin more on gradually,and move on to wahtever you wanted to add next.

>No meat,

Why??

>just water.

Well.. when dog having diarrhea,it is very important to provide water to avoid dehydration,but after some fasting day,still no meat being fed?

I am not sure about dog eating cat food...though.

Those are my thoughts.Hope it helps.

yassy

---------------------------------
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4. [OT] File under - what will they think of next?
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 6:18 pm ((PDT))

An electronic meat smeller:

>http://www.popgadget.net/2007/08/electronic_meat.php

I think the color coded results are backwards . . . why does
fresh=green and bad=red, when it's smelling MEAT? <grin>

Lora
Evanston

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5a. Veal Raw Meaty Bones
Posted by: "* shadygrove" shadygrove101@yahoo.com shadygrove101
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 6:18 pm ((PDT))

Hello all,

I found a new butcher today.

They had meaty veal bones at a good price, and I wondered if these are good to feed.

I'm not sure which bone they are, but they are sliced.

My dog is not a gulper, and chewed up the one I gave him quite nicely.

Is this too heavy duty a bone to feed?

Thanks for your input,
Karen

---------------------------------
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5b. Re: Veal Raw Meaty Bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 7:19 pm ((PDT))

* shadygrove <shadygrove101@...> wrote:>
> They had meaty veal bones at a good price, and I wondered if these
are good to feed.
*****
Easy enough to eat, most likely not enough meat.

> I'm not sure which bone they are, but they are sliced.
*****
Probably neck, maybe shoulder. You don't say what size dog you have
but gulper or not gulper (there's nothing illegal, immoral or fattening
about gulping btw), these sliced bones are probably too small unless
your dog is a pretty small.

> Is this too heavy duty a bone to feed?
*****
No. Veal bones are sort of the bovine equivalent of factory chicken.
The bones are young and quite soft.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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5c. Re: Veal Raw Meaty Bones
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 8:43 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/8/2007 5:18:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
shadygrove101@yahoo.com writes:

They had meaty veal bones at a good price, and I wondered if these are good
to feed.

I'm not sure which bone they are, but they are sliced.

Karen,

gonna have to be more specific than that.. but by and large, beef bones, even
veal bones are too dense for most dogs.. a bone is not meaty unless you can't
see the bone under the meat..

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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6a. Time for a new vet
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 6:59 pm ((PDT))

<<..So I guess I will start looking around and interviewing for a new vet for my animals...>>

Try here http://www.holisticvetlist.com/

I found a good one.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

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6b. Re: Time for a new vet
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 7:19 pm ((PDT))

Donna,

Vets are not nutritionists. Don't assume that a "holistic" vet will be any
more informed....most aren't! If you have a vet you are comfortable with in
dealing with emergencies or any need for tests, etc., stick with them. Diet
does not need to be part of that equation!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Donna" <donnad2998@yahoo.com>

I decide to
ask the vet about RAW feeding and I just wanted to laugh at her as
she was telling me that the dogs could get all these bad things from
uncooked meat. I wanted so bad to say do wolves get that too? She
said the stomach of a dog is almost like a human and can't handle
uncooked meat and eggs. She said that she would not feed her dogs
that and then said that she would agree on a homemade diet as long
as it was fully cooked.

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6c. Time for a new vet
Posted by: "joan spencer" nachoburrito@yahoo.com nachoburrito
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 7:24 pm ((PDT))

I used to try a little raw feeding promotion when people would comment on the large quantities of strange items in my grocery cart. But I got so tired of being harangued about it, particularly when people would begin, " But my veterinarian....". I began wanting to shout: "YOUR VET IS A BRAINWASHED IDIOT!

Now I just reply "It's for my dogs", and don't utter the word "raw" unless the questioner wants to discuss it positively (which is very rare).

I admire Tom Lonsdale. He takes so much abuse, yet remains so dedicated. He is a true hero. And the moderators of this list deserve more thanks than I could possibly give them for their patience and dedication.

Thank you list, Joan

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7. my dog is not eating...
Posted by: "deep_ocean_of_sorrow" deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com deep_ocean_of_sorrow
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 8:19 pm ((PDT))

its happened for about 2 or more weeks. he does eat, just little tiny
bites for each breakfast/dinner he has. or maybe just half of what he
used to eat.

i thought of fasting him for a day, but my mom is too worried about him
and has a pity-bonanza and goes stupid when i say " don't give him food
for a day".

i didn't feed my dog in the morning today, and at noon, my mom realized
i didn't and started to HAND feed him (and i told her NOT to several
times.)

she keeps complaining that he won't eat and kind of "threatens" to
change back to kibble.

my mom hand feeds lakkun(my dog) and says he won't eat it otherwise.
(which is stupid, i know.)

right now we feed him goat, turkey drumsticks, chicken drumsticks, beef
ribs(sliced), a bit of pork (we kind of ran out.), and we have some beef
liver that he would rarely eat when given. (for liver, i need to mix it
up with meat and pour some milk, even though i know that dogs are
lactose intolerant...he likes milk.)X_X

right now, he's completely healthy. he runs, he plays, his nose is wet,
his poop is.. on the soft side, i suppose. needs some firming up to do.
but not to the point where it is diarrhea.

do we need more variety? is it cause he's bored of the food? SHOULD we
change back to kibble?(i really really really really do NOT want to.) is
he just not hungry?

please help!

Kate

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8. fish body oil
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:40 pm ((PDT))

Hi. I had a chance to go to Wallmart,and so,I was curious about Fish oil and went to check that out.

Chris O told list before that it washard to find Fish oil because many was combo with Omega6 or 9 or something. So,I was curious.

I live in VA,and it may depends on location but mine did not have combo in shelf. Omega 3 fish body oil capsules but I found almost all bottle (I did not pick up all of the bottles there but) with soy in it.

Price-wise,quite reasonable but I do not think i find something i would like to get there.

Mine that I got through net has no soy in it,so, I think I buy online again.maybe 6 months or more later?? I bought 400 capsule one so,it last quite long....

Just an info

yassy

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9. Salmon oil questions
Posted by: "pigasus718" pigasus718@yahoo.com pigasus718
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:40 pm ((PDT))

Does anyone have any special tricks to get their dogs to eat this?
I got some Timberwolf salmon oil and put it on their beef and they
wouldn't touch it. Tried for several feedings. Tonight, out of
desperation, I mixed the oil in about 1/4 cup of ground chuck and they
just ate it up. I haven't fed ground meat before and seems like most
are against it since it is not prey model appropriate.
Is it okay to do this just to get them to take the oil, or does anyone
have other suggestions?
Also, is it okay to measure out their dose and let it come to room temp
before feeding? Mine hate anything even remotely cool and since it has
to be refrigerated that's been a drawback also.

TIA,
Robyn

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10a. Re: fatty ribs. . .
Posted by: "pigasus718" pigasus718@yahoo.com pigasus718
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:40 pm ((PDT))

I've been feeding beef ribs this week also. They too seem kind of
fatty, but I've just been throwing in some leaner cuts of beef with the
ribs and so far no problems.

Robyn

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11a. Re: Rookie Questions
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:41 pm ((PDT))

Wow, Krystal, you have in your pocket what the rest of us dream of!
Got any pigs with fat, to boot? That would make a better balance.

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "krystal_brr" <rkbarr@...> wrote:
>
>> If I feed mostly venison, since we have that in abundance, will I
need
> to add some kind of fat to the diet, since venison is so lean?
>
> Are wild game birds close enough to chicken? The wild bird bones
seem
> alot harder. Are they OK to start with?
>
> I have Rhodesian Ridgebacks (2).

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12a. Re: Rabbit.... is it just me??
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:41 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
>> *****
> No. You don't HAVE to dress them for any dog, if the dog is willing.
> Chris O
>
I always wondered why we call it 'dressing,' when in fact, we
are 'undressing.' Any clue?

Lynne

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13. are hearts good meat?
Posted by: "quiltingtuppy" mamacass@iprimus.com.au quiltingtuppy
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:42 pm ((PDT))

Hi All,

One month now feeding our puppy all raw and he's doing great, never looked back on the
patties so thanks for all the writers on this list I've learned so much! Especially thanks to Bill
for his notes on how to start, we never had a problem with getting Charlie used to raw with
those guidelines.

I can get beef hearts quite cheaply, I've heard they have taurine in them and that they're a
muscle - are they as good a meaty meat as other cuts of meaty meat because if so I'll make
that an affordable larger chunk of his meaty intake?

Thanks
Stephanie

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14. Re: puppy throws up and soft stools
Posted by: "Jocelyn Groner" jocelyn7777@hotmail.com croint7777
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:45 pm ((PDT))

IME, one of my dogs had this same issue the first month or so on raw. I discovered that she just needed more bone than my other 2 dogs. When she has meat only meals, we usually wind up with yellow bile vomit sometime the next day before her next feeding (we only feed 1x/day at night)... So example, if I feed a meat only meal of brisket the night before at 7:30pm, then usually by 3-5 the next day... there is that wonderful yellow bile vomit. I think she just has a faster digestive tract than my other two dogs (and definitely a faster metabolism). When I add a little bone in with her meal, no problems. So she always gets bone, unless I'm just totally out of anything else.

She also had soft stool on meat only meals. My other 2 do just fine on meat only, but she has soft stool... and requires the butt check to make sure she is clean enough to come in the house.

So, I'd try to experiment a little on the amount of bone in the meals you are giving.

I can give my other 2 dogs bone in chicken breasts without any problems, but without fail... it will give her stoft stool. I try to stick to things like whole chickens cut into pieces for her. It was trial and error. She is fine with meaty pork neck bones, pork sholders, ribs, etc. But when I give things with lots of meat or a meat only meal to my other 2, I've got to find some bone to give her. I keep things like neck bones here for that reason. I also let her gnaw on emu bones, etc. with meaty meals.

Every dog is different, and don't I know it. It took one forever to get the hang of eating organs. It was a battle every time, but now, he stands on his back legs to get them.

I know how the whole husband being against it goes... mine will grudgingly give them chicken if I'm running late, but won't touch anything else. He makes me be the one responsible for all their feeding now.

Good luck.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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15a. Re: [Raw Feeding] Come to the dark side
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:45 pm ((PDT))

Actually, some states will pay you to do so! Would wolves pick at
carcasses? Probably.

Following the 'darkside line,' picking up roadkill may lead to
roadkilling (near to road rage?) so perhaps rawfeeders shouldn't begin
the slippery slope????

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...>
wrote:
>
> You know you've crossed over to the dark side (raw) when you see a
> dead deer carcass on the side of the road with buzzards pecking at it
> and think "Man wish I had a butchers knife"
>
> LOL -
>
> You can't really do that can you? Pick up a dead animal off the road
> take it home clean it off and feed it to your dogs could you...I mean
> if you saw the deer get hit and knew that it was dead, possible???
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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16a. Re: raw feeding for 2 years, suddenly very sick * update-looks like
Posted by: "Trish" trishwelham@hotmail.com trishwelham
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:45 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

The vet is keeping Molly until Tue. Nothing on xray. Initial blood
work makes him think pancreatitis. Results to follow. If anyone has
any experience with this issue we would greatly appreciate it. Of
course the first response from friends and family is "is it the raw
food?" Not helpful. Very sad here in our home.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Trish" <trishwelham@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Giselle, thank you so much for the suggestions. After I posted the
> message I tried to take Molly out to drink and she collapsed. She got
> up to come inside and collapsed again. I called my husband to come
> home and he took her to the vet about an hour ago...still waiting to
> hear back.
>
> I think the way she's acting today may be severe dehydration, man was
> it scary though, I was so upset.
>
> We don't usually feed frozen, but have done so before.
>
> She mostly eats whole chickens with occasional beef and pork.
>
> She definitely could have eaten something else in the yard, there was
> grass in her vomit or perhaps bitten by something, we've had
> neighbors' dogs bitten by rattlers.
>
> The chicken is Foster Farms, the label says no additives or
preservatives.
>
> She hasn't eaten, but when I got her inside she drank 2 bowls of water
> before going to the vet.
>
> I will definitely look into the SEB, thank you again so much for the
> suggestions and I will post back when we know more. - Trish
>
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Trish!
> > It could be unrelated to her last meal.
> >
> > But,
> >
> > Do you usually feed frozen?
> >
> > Do you often feed chicken?
> >
> > Is eating a whole chicken unusual for her?
> >
> > Could she have eaten something on her own out in the yard, or been
> > given something to eat by someone else?
> >
> >
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12016

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Update on Bernie, sick Sheltie
From: Howard Salob

2a. Re: amalyse(sp?)-irritated pancreas
From: beckie716
2b. Re: amalyse(sp?)-irritated pancreas
From: cypressbunny

3a. Re: Collie
From: connie

4. Re: welcome to the dark side...
From: tantelin22@aol.com

5. Re: re feeding wild game
From: tantelin22@aol.com

6a. Re: Can I Feed Just the Turkey Leg?
From: Yasuko herron
6b. Re: Can I Feed Just the Turkey Leg?
From: morkydzgrl
6c. Re: Can I Feed Just the Turkey Leg?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

7a. Intro with questions
From: Mona
7b. Re: Intro with questions
From: krystal_brr
7c. Re: Intro with questions
From: Giselle

8a. Re: Feeding wild game
From: steph.sorensen

9a. raw feeding for 2 years, suddenly very sick
From: Trish
9b. Re: raw feeding for 2 years, suddenly very sick
From: Giselle
9c. Re: raw feeding for 2 years, suddenly very sick
From: Trish

10. Time for a new vet
From: Donna

11a. Re: Introducing myself and Zachary
From: Giselle
11b. Re: Introducing myself and Zachary
From: Morledzep@aol.com

12a. Re: Goop in eyes
From: rokedemyah

13a. Re: Puppy throws up and soft stools
From: vickies_28

14a. Re: Rawfeeding Small Dogs
From: Jeanne Faletti

15a. Re: coprophagy
From: Marjorie Trebino

16a. Bladder Stones
From: Susanne MacLeod

17. Situation
From: Cathy

Messages
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1a. Re: Update on Bernie, sick Sheltie
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 6:59 am ((PDT))

Dear Sandee Lee,

Have you tried aloe vera juice. It is great for digestion. They do make favored ones so it might be more palatable.

Sincerely,

Howard

Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com> wrote:
I guess I would feed small frequent easy to digest meals (such as chicken
breast), no bone, remove fat...you can warm it up if need be to entice him.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Marion" <mbldesigns@yahoo.com>

Bloodwork:
pancreas and some liver numbers were 2-3 x over normal indicating the
ducts are inflammed. Xray showed no blockage and no masses, but did
show well formed fecal. So vet thinks the infection in the intestines
is gone and now we have inflamation in the adjacent organs' ducts. So
finish off the last few remaining pills and add a new antibiotic that
will go through the liver.
So with this new information, what would you recommend I feed him?

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (18)
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2a. Re: amalyse(sp?)-irritated pancreas
Posted by: "beckie716" beckie716@yahoo.com beckie716
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 7:24 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> An elevation of 2 points on one enzyme is probably not cause for
concern.
> Was the dog fasting? Any symptoms??
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "beckie716" <beckie716@...>
>
I really don't know what symptoms are associated with pacreatitis.
But, I don't think she had any

She had just gone through a really bad constipation spell and was
eating very little, if any at all. I admitted to the vet that I was
feeding "people food",instead of dog food, and that she had
"accidentally" eaten some bone. My assumption was that he just wanted
me to buy his brand of food. He has been pushing me really hard to
switch to it. I am back to raw after a horrible spell on IAMS. She had
bloat/gastric torsion on it and I realized my mistake. I just switched
back to raw 2 weeks ago.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that a raw fed dog will have
different blood panel results than a kibble fed one. I just wanted to
make sure she was OK. I really could do without another vet visit.

Thank you,
Beckie =)
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: amalyse(sp?)-irritated pancreas
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 7:56 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "beckie716" <beckie716@...> wrote:
>
> he says
> normal pancreas levels are up to 1010. and hers is 1012.
> Diagnosis-feed only "dog food". Should I be concerned?

*** Be concerned about the vet. Amylase 0.002% above normal doesn't
worry me. It is certainly not diagnostic for pancreatitis. I agree
that you should feed only dog food, although my definition of dog food
may differ significantly from your vet's.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Collie
Posted by: "connie" justbullies@hotmail.com bullienut
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 7:26 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 9/7/2007 11:45:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> sovereign1@... writes:
>
> Recently since switching there has been a drastic increase in
shedding. WE
> have read other
> posts for shedding problems. > Norman,
>

>
> What i normally do is when the heat comes i add salmon oil to their
food a
> couple times a week and i feed fattier meats as much as possible.
This year i
> was in a bad place before my surgery in July, and wasn't able to
pay attention
> to the world around me. I missed the signs and now my dogs are
naked..
>
> I also add salmon oil to their food in the winter when the air is
dry and
> cold. Another bad time for itchy and dry skin and possible
shedding.
>
> Catherine R.
Hi Guys!
I used to work for a veterinarian for 10 yrs.And a professional
groomer for 20 yrs. Dogs actually shed by light. Not heat and cold.
Indoor dogs will shed more from artificial light. Keep this in
mind..as I have seen an improvement in my dogs coats since switching
to raw. They still shed but not as much dander and dry icky skin.And
their hair is so nice. One of my bullies(almost pure white) had a
yellowish hue to her coat when I switched to raw within about 3 weeks
her skin wasn`t dry anymore and her coat is a beautiful bright white
now. I hope this helps~connie~
www.justbullies.com

Messages in this topic (4)
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4. Re: welcome to the dark side...
Posted by: "tantelin22@aol.com" tantelin22@aol.com tantelindar
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 7:27 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/8/2007 1:21:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com writes:

You know you've crossed over to the dark side (raw) when you see a
dead deer carcass on the side of the road with buzzards pecking at it
and think "Man wish I had a butchers knife"

LOL -

You can't really do that can you? Pick up a dead animal off the road
take it home clean it off and feed it to your dogs could you...I mean
if you saw the deer get hit and knew that it was dead, possible???

=================
Check with your local police or wildlife officials; in some places it is
illegal to pickup road-killed game animals (deer would be illegal, woodchucks
not, for example) unless you have the appropriate hunting license and the
species is in season.

And I agree with you about the condition of the kill; if I wouldn't eat it,
I wouldn't feed it to the four-footed furries...

<======================================== >
Blessed Be with An Honorable Peace!
Tante Lin

Maxine is my Hero! She says:
My idea of rebooting is kicking somebody in the butt twice.
Don't let aging get you down: it's too hard to get back up!
If you woke up breathing, congratulations!
You have another chance!
<===>

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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5. Re: re feeding wild game
Posted by: "tantelin22@aol.com" tantelin22@aol.com tantelindar
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 7:34 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/8/2007 8:51:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com writes:

> I have the opportunity to receive wild game from a co-worker who traps
> during the season. (beaver, mink, fisher, etc...)
> My hesitation comes from the fear of rabies, and distemper.
> Has anyone fed wild game and/or is the risk just to high.

===================
It's my understanding that rabies isn't transmitted by feeding; the virus
must be transmitted from the carrier into the new subject's bloodstream, so the
risk would be if there are any openings to your dog's bloodstream or lymph
system in the digestive tract [from gums and tongue all the way through].

Trappers are careful about exposure to body fluids from their prey; I
suppose my willingness to feed such meat would depend on my awareness of the level
of rabies incidence in the area where the prey was taken.

I don't know enough about distemper to have an opinion; sorry.

<======================================== >
Blessed Be with An Honorable Peace!
Tante Lin

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: Can I Feed Just the Turkey Leg?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 8:19 am ((PDT))

>Can I feed my dog just the turkey leg?

Hi,Cindi. I know that Turkey is huge bird and,I wassurprised to see thesize of leg itself;much much bigger than chicken.

I think you can feed leg by itself but feeding leg only day in day out may not be good idea in long term so,I rather buy whole Turkey and cut into apropriate size and offer various parts of the bird;like today you give portion that hasrib cage,next day leg etc..That way,the dog gets to eat whole bird after some feedings. I feel more balanced that.way. In short term,feeding only legs is ok.

>I went ahead and gave him the turkey leg yesterday but he refused it. I offered the leg
>(hoping it was okay to just feed the leg) two more times.

I have a question for you. When yourdog refused to eat,did you give anything to yourdog like treats? When you like to offer things dog not eating,you may want to feed nothing but things thedog not eating. I have read in the past that somebody'sdog refused meat 4 days straight but afterall,the dog ate the meal being offered.

So,my suggestion,do not feed anything but Turkey leg in this case.And when you feed it,try various tricks you can do to entice dog to eat like slicing skin andlet the dog see meat,quick searing,feed partial frozen or feed at room temp etc..

> He has refused chicken before and ate turkey once.

If heate turkey once,then,maybe heis hoping you feed what helikes;in this case,beef,pork,lamb. It maybe patient match with him:-P

>(I did give him two eggs yesterday morning, but that was all he ate all day.)

Oh,I see. He ate something other than Turkey,so,he still can strike on you not to eat Turkey. Don't feed Egg either. Nothing but Turkey.

>Would you suggest I continue feeding the turkey leg until he eats it,

I say yes.

Hope this helps,

yassy

---------------------------------
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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6b. Re: Can I Feed Just the Turkey Leg?
Posted by: "morkydzgrl" ShankMa4@aol.com morkydzgrl
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 9:36 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron
<sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:

> I think you can feed leg by itself but feeding leg only day in
>day out may not be good idea in long term so,I rather buy whole
>Turkey and cut into apropriate size and offer various parts of the
>bird;like today you give portion that hasrib cage,next day leg
>etc..That way,the dog gets to eat whole bird after some feedings. I
<feel more balanced that.way. In short term,feeding only legs is ok.

Thanks Yassy. yes, I meant 1 leg for 1 meal. Okay, so I will feed
again.

>It maybe patient match with him:-P

I will try again.

>Oh,I see. He ate something other than Turkey,so,he still can strike
>on you not to eat Turkey. Don't feed Egg either. Nothing but Turkey.

Strike ... LOL ... I like the way you put that ... okay, I am on the
turkey. I'll let you know what happens.

Thanks!

Cindi

Messages in this topic (4)
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6c. Re: Can I Feed Just the Turkey Leg?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 3:13 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/8/2007 4:05:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
ShankMa4@aol.com writes:

So basically he didn't eat yesterday because of refusing the turkey
leg. (I did give him two eggs yesterday morning, but that was all he
ate all day.) Would you suggest I continue feeding the turkey leg until
he eats it, or should I take this as a cue not to feed poultry? And is
it okay not to feed poultry?

Cindi,

you gave him the eggs before or after he refused the turkey leg? if it was
after you're causing your own setbacks. And even though thanksgiving is coming
and turkeys are going to be CHEAP real soon.. turkey is not a necessary part
of the diet if he decides he doesn't want to eat it.

don't count all poultry out just because he's refusing to eat turkey today,
and don't count turkey out completely forever. And if you really want to press
the issue, wait him out.. give him a few days to think about whether turkey
is food. Offer it to him every day.. and give him NOTHING else in between.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Intro with questions
Posted by: "Mona" mona@ptd.net deliriousmom
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 9:25 am ((PDT))

Hi all! I'm Mona and have a zoo at our home. We've got 2 dogs, 1
ferret (who I'll be starting on raw too), 1 lop-eared rabbit, 1
hamster, 1 Blue fronted Amazon and a fish tank (and a partridge in a
pear tree LOL). Our dogs are Snickers, a 12yo male neutered
Chi/Terrier mix and Bella, a 4.5 month old female spayed large breed
mix. Bella looks a lot like a rotti but her legs & chin etc where
she is not black are more blonde instead of brown and her snout is
thinner more like a GSD and she has black splotches on her tongue so
I know she's got Chow in her too, other than that its anyone's guess
I suppose.

I have always had my dogs on very high quality kibble off of WDJ's
list but now I've decided that I've made a mistake and want to switch
them over to raw. I have several questions and I'm looking forward
to your help. I used to give Snickers raw turkey & chicken necks as
a treat a couple of times a week a few years ago as they were readily
available, but when I moved to PA (from NYC) I could no longer find
them so I stopped.

Snickers (the 12yo)I've had since he was 8 wks now has horrible teeth
and the vet says she needs to remove most of the front lower teeth
because they are loose and wants to charge me upwards of $500 that I
don't have to do a dental on him. I now realize that it is
completely my fault for feeding him the commercial stuff all these
years and feel awful about it and was wondering if I start feeding
him raw now what effect that will have on his teeth. I also have him
on Rimadyl daily and it has definitely helped him move around easier
and wonder if I'll be able to stop giving him that after a while on
raw?

Bella (the pup) I've had since she was 10 wks I know will benefit
from my new knowledge, but I'm not sure how to feed her. Everything
that I've read says to give them a percentage of what their adult
weight will be, but since she is a rescue of unknown breeds I have no
idea how big she will get. Right now she is 19wks old and weighs
24lbs, her paws are about 2" wide by 2.5" long and she stands
about 18" high by 20" long from neck to rump. Any ideas on how much
bigger she'll get or how to figure out how much to give her?

Now for what to feed… when I lived in NY I could buy meat parts that
aren't normally consumed by people (turkey necks etc for instance)
separately packaged from the meat store (not a butcher per se) for
next to nothing and now all I have access to is BJs, SamsClub,
Walmart & the supermarket and they look at me like I have 3 heads if
I ask for some chicken necks or whatever. Can someone give me a
sample list of what I should shop for to feed both dogs for the week
from a regular supermarket just to get me started?

I'm sure I have more questions brewing but I think this post is long
enough as it is, LOL!
Thank you all so much!
Mona

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: Intro with questions
Posted by: "krystal_brr" rkbarr@hughes.net krystal_brr
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:22 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mona" <mona@...> wrote:
>
> all I have access to is BJs, SamsClub,
> Walmart & the supermarket and they look at me like I have 3 heads if
> I ask for some chicken necks or whatever.

I don't know what part of PA you are in, but I used to live there and
hunting season isn't too far off so lots of guys will be getting their
deer processed. There are small butcher shops all over the place that
do that kind of thing, plus other processing. Look for small butcher
shops not the big places. Maybe someone you know hunts and they could
tell you about a butcher? I was in south central PA and there are a
couple of chicken companies there that are all natural and you could go
right to the processing plant and buy stuff fresh. Hope this helps.

Krystal

Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: Intro with questions
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 11:35 am ((PDT))

Hi, Mona!
Welcome to the raw side! ^_^

My response will be even longer. ; )

btw, some other pure bred dogs have black spots on their tongues, so
Bella doesn't necessarily have to be part Chow.

IME, feeding a dog raw can certainly firm up loose teeth and gums, by
the mechanical aspect of crunching and tearing meat and bone. But, be
prepared, sometimes the teeth are pushed out by that same action.
Either way, it will benefit Snickers and save you the $$!

Again ime, dogs who are fed a species appropriate raw prey model diet
do experience less pain due to arthritis. It may take a while to have
a positive effect, so don't plan to reduce his dosage until after he
shows you he is more comfortable.

As for the pup, I suggest you feed him your best guess of her adult
weight, and tweak the amount up or down in a few weeks if she gets a
bit fluffy or too thin.

Before I post a list of my suggestions, let me say that there are
people on this list who feed prey model raw to ferrets, so post a
separate topic and they will chime in with their advice.

Raw chat is a great place to visit and get support, too.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/

My recommendations:

1. You want to start with 2-3% of your dog's ESTIMATED IDEAL ADULT
weight. Tweak with more meat if your dog gets a bit skinny, a bit less
if your dog gets 'fluffy' over the space of a few weeks. You might
start out by weighing your dog, and weighing her meals; but most peeps
don't continue once they get more comfortable and casual about feeding
raw. Tiny, toy, pregnant, puppies or very active dogs might need as
much as 4-5% or more - very large, giant, overweight or couch potato
dogs might need less than 2% to maintain.

2. Ditch the kibble or canned â" thereâ™s been plenty of discussion on
this list about why processed foods and raw don't mix; just let it
suffice that your dog can reap the benefits of raw faster and more
completely if you donate the kibble to your local shelter asap. A
species appropriate raw whole prey model diet doesn't include kibble.
Or veggies, grains or tons of supps. Or, for the most part, ground
meats. No need for w/rec/k bones either. And, your dog may be less
motivated to make the change if he can smell that kibble!

3. Feed at least 2 meals a day to start with. (three meals for a pup
under 6 months old or for tiny dogs) Feeding once a day (or even less
often) can be a great feeding plan for a dog, but not at first; too
much new food at a meal can cause digestive upset. Feed as large a
portion as you can for the size of the meal. No little pieces or cut
up, â˜bite sizedâ™ chucks. Dogs need to tear into their food and shear
hunks off to swallow and crunch bone for physical, mental and dental
health. They donâ™t chew or eat the way we do, their digestion begins
in their stomachs, not in their mouths. So swallowing big hunks of
meat and bone is fine. If it fits, its OK. If it isnâ™t happy in the
stomach, the dog will hork it up, and re eat it, so it will go down
and stay down the 2nd or 3rd time. All good, thatâ™s the way dogs are.

4. Feed a little less at each meal at first than you think you should.
Too much new food over the course of a day or two can cause digestive
upset, too.

5. Stay with one new protein for at least a week, maybe two. You want
the dog to be showing you he is well adjusted to the new protein
before adding in new stuff. Take it slow; add only one new protein
every week or two.

6. You can switch to a new protein by just serving it at the next
meal, and all the meals after that for a week or so, or you can add a
bite or two of the new protein in with the 'old' protein, gradually
adding more new and less 'old' over several days, until you are
feeding all new and no 'old'. Whatever works for your own dog.

7. Boneless meals tend to produce loose, even runny poops. A judicious
amount of bone in a newbie dog's meal will tend to firm things up.
There will be less poop overall; raw is much more digestible and less
goes to waste. Poops will be less frequent also, for the same reason.
Bone adds bulk, so sloppy poops can be firmed up by some (don't go
overboard!) bone at each meal at first. Too much bone and your dog
can get âœ fossilâ poops that are dry, whitish and crumbly.

8. Chicken is recommended as the first protein to be introduced for
several reasons: its cheap, easy to obtain, easy to cut into different
dog meal sized portions, you can trim visible fat and skin if you need
to tweak, most dogs will eat it and its pretty bland. Read the labels
on the chicken before you buy; don't get any that say its enhanced
with flavoring/seasonings or salt injected. Some dogs get itchy or
vomit or get true diarrhea from enhancements. Whole chickens are the
best to start with, ime. Cut into portion sizes with kitchen shears,
as needed.

9. Some newbie dogs vomit or poop bone bits. There is an adjustment
period, so you want some bone in most meals at first, but too much
bone may not be digested and the dog will just hork it up or poop it
out. NPs, its just the dog's way of saying "Too much right now, no
thanks."

10. Some dogs will get the Bile Vomits or Bone Bile Vomits (BV or BBV)
when new to raw simply because their schedules or routines of eating
have been changed. When a dog adjusts to raw, his gastric 'juices'
become much more acid, to better digest the raw meat and bone. If he's
expecting a meal at a certain time, the 'juices start flowing' in
anticipation of getting a meal. When the meal doesn't happen, the dog
often will hork up the yellowish, foamyish bile, with or without
bones. Sometimes they hork up BBV because raw digests faster than
kibble, the tummy is empty, so it must be time to eat. NP for the dog,
he's gotten rid of the irritation. He may react as if he feels bad,
just because you are upset that he did it on your new comforter, or on
the white carpet.

11. A lot of dogs don't drink as much water or as frequently when
switched to all raw, all the time. Raw has a pretty high water content
and most dogs are forced by dry as dust kibble to over drink water to
compensate in order for their bodies to process it. If only fed raw,
you don't need to coax your dog to drink more water or even broth,
just offer plenty of fresh water, he'll drink when he needs it.

12. True diarrhea is not just loose, runny or sloppy poops. It is
frequent, liquid or watery explosions of poo that a dog cannot 'hold
back'. True diarrhea, imo, is caused by disease, parasites or
inappropriate food or non food items. The occasional loose poops, even
over a few days, from feeding a few too many boneless meals or
introing a new protein or feeding too much organ at one whack, is not
diarrhea.

13. The general rule of thumb for feeding raw is: 80% meat (muscle,
fat, skin, connective tissue) 10% EDIBLE bone (not all bone that is
served must be consumed) and 10% organs (5% of this is liver, the rest
is as much variety as you can find and afford) This is not an
immutable 'daily requirement'. Balance Over Time, over weeks and
months is one of the raw feeding mottos. ; ) If you feed true whole
prey, that is; entire animals at a time, then the meat to bone to
organ ratios are 'perfect' for that creature. Whatever parts your dog
can eat of is right for him. In the wild, wolves will eat off a large
animal carcass for days, and each wolf gets different parts. If times
are hard, they will consume the entire critter, including skin, fur,
less 'choice' parts and will even crack the hard long bones to get to
the marrow. If pickin's are plentiful, they will eat the easiest and
choice parts, and then move on. Because of variances in size, age,
personality, life experiences and dental ability, a particular dog
will be able to consume, or not: all or part or some or a little bone
from any particular animal. If you feed 'Frankenprey', that is; a
variety of protein, body parts and organs from different animals, to
simulate the whole prey experience for your dogs, you are challenged
to find enough variety in all these aspects for optimal health.

14. Organs - don't try to add a lot of organs or organ variety at
first. An easy way to satisfy the human need to "Do it all, right
now!", is to toss the gizzards and heart you get with your whole
chickens in with a bonier meal, a little piece at a meal. Heart and
gizzards are organs, but should be fed as meatymeat. The liver can be
cut up into teensy bits, and fed a tiny bit at a time with a meal.
This will allow you to feed organs, but shouldn't cause runny stools.
If it does, cut it out and freeze those parts for later down the line.
My list of organs, so I don't forget to look for variety; liver, heart
(fed as meat), cheek meat, head meat, salivary glands, feet, lips,
oxtail, spleen, tongue (usually fed as meat), weasand meat
(esophagus), tripe, stomach, sweetbread (thymus & pancreas), ears,
kidneys, brain, tripe, poultry giblets - heart, liver, gizzard and
snouts. Heads, with all the â˜stuffâ™, including eyes.
"offal" - viscera and trimmings of a butchered animal often considered
inedible by
humans.

15. SEBP - Slippery Elm Bark Powder. This is a good innocuous herb
that soothes the stomach and digestive system. If you feel you need to
intervene when your dog has loose poops or constipation, this is the
way to go. SEBP is "used to treat diarrhea, constipation, enteritis,
colitis & irritations of the stomach. Used to soothe, protect &
lubricate mucous membranes. Also, used to relieve the discomforts of
kennel cough & other types of bronchitis."
http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm
I use 1 tsp of SEBP to one ounce of ground or chopped chicken. Mix
together and shape enough meatballs for several days doses, and freeze
them. They thaw quickly. For small dogs, divide in 1/2 ounce
meatballs, for large to giant dogs, 1 ounce meatballs. Feed 1 with
each meal. Or, fast for a day, (not for pups, fast for just a meal or
two) offer plenty of water. Feed SEBP meatballs 3-4 times throughout
the day. Feed smaller, more frequent meals for several days after,
gradually increasing the meals and decreasing the SEBP meatballs. You
will often see an increase in mucousy poops with SEBP, this is part of
the way it soothes the digestive system, and the dog's body will do
the same sometimes even without SEBP.

16. You can feed pretty much any animal or animal part that your dog
will eat and that won't break the bank. : ) Common grocery store
variety suffices for some; chicken, turkey, pork, beef, lamb, fish,
rabbit. Others can obtain at a reasonable price and feed; goat,
venison, emu, ostrich, bison, beefalo, elk, mutton, mice, rats, guinea
hen, quail, bear (bear? ;) ), the list goes on and on.

17. If you must supplement, you can add Salmon or Fish Body oil,
either in caps or liquid. Make sure it doesn't have any plant based
oils, like soy, in there. You probably don't need much. Follow the
recommendations that come with the product you buy:
http://timberwolforganics.com/pet-omega-oils

http://www.icelandpure.com/salmon_oil.htm

In the case of true
disease, you may need certain supps, but this is the exception to the
rule, most dogs donâ™t.

18. Lis' List; ways to creatively source cheaper variety in protein,
parts and organs. FreeCycle and craigslist are great ways to find a
free or cheap freezer to hold all the scores you'll be making!

âœ Where do you look for meat suppliers?

Permission to repost from Lis

A) Look up meat and poultry packers, processors, and distributors in
the yellow pages. You may be able to get great prices from them if
you order in bulk, and/or they may have a discount outlet that is
open to the public.
B) I get many of my best deals in Asian/Oriental markets. I've also
heard that Hispanic and Caribbean markets have great variety and
prices too.
C) You may be able to join a barter group.
D) Google breeders (i.e. rabbit, goat, lamb, etc.) who are in your
geographic area. They may have culls they want to get rid of, or
lower prices overall.
E) Look up bulk suppliers and frozen bulk foods in your yellow pages.
F) If you have a Chinatown nearby, definitely make a visit.
G) Let your friends, relatives, and neighbors know you want any
freezer burn or old meat when they clean out their freezers, and tell
them to pass the word along.
H)If you belong to a church or social group, tell those members to
mention it to their friends and relatives as well.
I) See if there are any co-ops or meat buying groups near you. Check
on Yahoo, or Google to see.
J) Try craigslist - it's amazing what you can get for free or cheap.
K) And I get meat and fish all the time (for free) through
FreeCycle. Join multiple lists if there are a few close by.
L) Some Wal-marts and some Costcos and some Samâ™s Clubs have good
deals, but you may want to make sure it's not seasoned meat.
M) Definitely watch the flyers, and you can usually see the rest
of the flyers online (the ones that don't get delivered to your house,
but are only a short drive away).
N) *** Hands down, the bulk of my best deals have been marked down
meat at regular grocery stores. They reduce it the day before it is
going to expire, and I go as early as I can to get it before it is
gone.
O) Tell friends and relatives who hunt and fish that you want first
dibs on any body parts they don't. You can probably get at least the
organs and maybe the head. Also ask them to put you in touch with
their other friends who hunt and fish.
P) A great tip I learned here a while back â" some restaurants
throw out things they don't use, like the organs that come inside
whole poultry, or raw meat that falls on the floor. See if they'll
save them for you. Find somebody who knows somebody who works there.
Q) Farmer's markets are great, but pick and choose carefully for the
best bargains. And sometimes at the end of the day some vendors will
reduce their prices, â˜cause they don't want to take it back with them.
R) Some people contact taxidermists, who have no use for the meat.
S) Find people on this list from your vicinity, and ask them where
they get their meat deals. Join other raw feeding lists (there are
many), and ask if there are other raw feeders in your area.
T) Tell your butcher you want the meat that they would normally
throw out, that is almost out of date, that people ordered and didn't
pick up, stuff that was dropped on the floor, their freezer
cleanouts, and parts that don't sell (like trachea, lungs, spleen,
etc.). Some butchers will save their trim for you (once they get to
know you). Build a relationship with them first.
U) Yes, roadkill works too (where it is legal). In some places you
can get your name on the list and get called when they have large
roadkill. (like deer)
V) You can raise your own meat/poultry if you have the room.
W) Post a message in Carnivore Feed-Supplier or CFS-Canada if you are
in North America:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFS-Canada/
X) Speak to local farmers.
Y) Also, look for heart, tongue, and gizzards, which count as meat (as
opposed to organ) in the world of raw feeding, but are often cheaper
than other muscle meats.
Z) Find somebody who knows somebody who works at the grocery store.
They can introduce you to the meat guy, who may become more willing
to save stuff for you or reduce items about to expire, once they know
you.
AA) Check the internet. Some suppliers have affordable prices, even
after shipping costs are calculated.

Lisâ

19. Donâ™t hover! It takes some dogs a couple of days to realize that
what youâ™re giving them is real food, and theyâ™re allowed to eat it.
This process will take less time if youâ™re not standing over them in
an excess of anxiety. Some dogs react to that kind of anxiety by
acting as if they donâ™t want the food, when in reality, they are just
confused by your mixed signals. Remember, âœpeople foodâ has always
been off limits to him prior to this! Take the food to his feeding
place, put it on an old towel or rug and have a seat. Donâ™t stare, but
do hang out, reading a magazine until heâ™s done and you can let him
outside and fold up his towel.

It really isn't that hard to raw feed your dog. There's a learning
curve, definitely. But, that's what this list is here for.
Read as many daily posts as you can, read the files on the website,
and follow those links! Search in the archives for past posts with
keywords; new to raw, newbie, help, how do I start or other words that
reflect your specific search.
TC, and let us know how you and your dog progress!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hi all! I'm Mona and have a zoo at our home. We've got 2 dogs,
<snip> Our dogs are Snickers, a 12yo male neutered
> Chi/Terrier mix and Bella, a 4.5 month old female spayed large breed
> mix. <snip>
> I have always had my dogs on very high quality kibble off of WDJ's
> list but now I've decided that I've made a mistake and want to switch
> them over to raw.
<snip>
> Snickers (the 12yo)I've had since he was 8 wks now has horrible teeth
> and the vet says she needs to remove most of the front lower teeth
> because they are loose
<snip>
I also have him on Rimadyl daily and it has definitely helped him move
around easier
> and wonder if I'll be able to stop giving him that after a while on
> raw?
>
> Bella (the pup) <snip> Any ideas on how much
> bigger she'll get or how to figure out how much to give her?
>
> Now for what to feedï¿½
<snip>
> I'm sure I have more questions brewing but I think this post is long
> enough as it is, LOL!
> Thank you all so much!
> Mona
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: Feeding wild game
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 9:36 am ((PDT))

I have limited experience in raw feeding myself, but I have
researched it thoroughly, and my dogs have been on it for a couple of
weeks now, and from everything I've read...

wild game is where it is at! How much closer to a "prey-model diet"
can you get than actual, whole prey items!

I say "go for it" and also "man, I am jealous!!"

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here. :)

-Steph
(Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jenstalter" <jstalter2ksndj@...>
wrote:
>
> Hey everyone.
> I have the opportunity to receive wild game from a co-worker who
traps
> during the season. (beaver, mink, fisher, etc...)
> My hesitation comes from the fear of rabies, and distemper.
> Has anyone fed wild game and/or is the risk just to high.
>
> Jennifer, Rohan, Bella, Jack, Emmi, Moco, & Archimedes
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. raw feeding for 2 years, suddenly very sick
Posted by: "Trish" trishwelham@hotmail.com trishwelham
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:21 am ((PDT))

Hi all, any input would be appreciated. We have a female 100lb
dobi/rot mix. Thu night she ate a pretty well frozen whole chicken (we
feed every other night), that night and Fri she vomited continuously
and became very weak and lethargic. She is still very out of it this
morning (no more vomiting) and she is twitchy in her neck area. The
vomit was clear (no blood). Could it be the frozen food or something
totally unrelated? I think we'll be taking her to the vet today if
there's no improvement soon. Thanks in advance, Trish

Messages in this topic (3)
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9b. Re: raw feeding for 2 years, suddenly very sick
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 11:50 am ((PDT))

Hi, Trish!
It could be unrelated to her last meal.

But,

Do you usually feed frozen?

Do you often feed chicken?

Is eating a whole chicken unusual for her?

Could she have eaten something on her own out in the yard, or been
given something to eat by someone else?

It could also just be her reaction to something unusual about the
chicken, or the way it was fed. Some dogs vomit or get itchy from
enhanced flavoring/seasonings or salt solutions injected into the
meat. I'd check the label on the chicken if you still have it, or ones
you bought at the same time.

Is she drinking water? You might offer her some unsalted chicken broth
to help keep her hydrated.

How are her stools?

Has she eaten anything since Thursday night?

I would be inclined to give her some Slippery Elm Bark Powder. This is
a good innocuous herb that soothes the stomach and digestive system.
SEBP is "used to treat diarrhea, constipation, enteritis, colitis &
irritations of the stomach. Used to soothe, protect & lubricate mucous
membranes. Also, used to relieve the discomforts of kennel cough &
other types of bronchitis."
http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm
I use 1 tsp of SEBP to one ounce of ground or chopped chicken. Mix
together and shape enough meatballs for several days doses, and freeze
them. They thaw quickly. For small dogs, divide in 1/2 ounce
meatballs, for large to giant dogs, 1 ounce meatballs. Feed 1 with
each meal. Or, fast for a day, (not for pups, fast for just a meal or
two) offer plenty of water. Feed SEBP meatballs 3-4 times throughout
the day. Feed smaller, more frequent meals for several days after,
gradually increasing the meals and decreasing the SEBP meatballs. You
will often see an increase in mucousy poops with SEBP, this is part of
the way it soothes the digestive system, and the dog's body will do
the same sometimes even without SEBP.

TC and let us know how she does!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hi all, any input would be appreciated. We have a female 100lb
> dobi/rot mix. Thu night she ate a pretty well frozen whole chicken (we
> feed every other night), that night and Fri she vomited continuously
> and became very weak and lethargic. She is still very out of it this
> morning (no more vomiting) and she is twitchy in her neck area. The
> vomit was clear (no blood). Could it be the frozen food or something
> totally unrelated? I think we'll be taking her to the vet today if
> there's no improvement soon. Thanks in advance, Trish
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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9c. Re: raw feeding for 2 years, suddenly very sick
Posted by: "Trish" trishwelham@hotmail.com trishwelham
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 12:41 pm ((PDT))

Hi Giselle, thank you so much for the suggestions. After I posted the
message I tried to take Molly out to drink and she collapsed. She got
up to come inside and collapsed again. I called my husband to come
home and he took her to the vet about an hour ago...still waiting to
hear back.

I think the way she's acting today may be severe dehydration, man was
it scary though, I was so upset.

We don't usually feed frozen, but have done so before.

She mostly eats whole chickens with occasional beef and pork.

She definitely could have eaten something else in the yard, there was
grass in her vomit or perhaps bitten by something, we've had
neighbors' dogs bitten by rattlers.

The chicken is Foster Farms, the label says no additives or preservatives.

She hasn't eaten, but when I got her inside she drank 2 bowls of water
before going to the vet.

I will definitely look into the SEB, thank you again so much for the
suggestions and I will post back when we know more. - Trish

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Trish!
> It could be unrelated to her last meal.
>
> But,
>
> Do you usually feed frozen?
>
> Do you often feed chicken?
>
> Is eating a whole chicken unusual for her?
>
> Could she have eaten something on her own out in the yard, or been
> given something to eat by someone else?
>
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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10. Time for a new vet
Posted by: "Donna" donnad2998@yahoo.com donnad2998
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:33 am ((PDT))

I did my weelky reduced meat shopping this morning and got a lot of
meat to fill the freezer to feed my great dane (KC)and beagle
(Shiloh). Kroger has some good deals on Saturdays.
Anyway I had a vet appointment at 11AM so of we went to get nails
trimmed and ears checked. Shiloh has an ear infection. I decide to
ask the vet about RAW feeding and I just wanted to laugh at her as
she was telling me that the dogs could get all these bad things from
uncooked meat. I wanted so bad to say do wolves get that too? She
said the stomach of a dog is almost like a human and can't handle
uncooked meat and eggs. She said that she would not feed her dogs
that and then said that she would agree on a homemade diet as long
as it was fully cooked. I decided to keep my mouth closed about
cooked bones splintering and how much better KC and Shiloh looked in
so many ways since feeding them RAW, the coats, eyes and teeth are
beautiful. I saw a post on here about the discharge from the eyes
have cleared up since feeding RAW well KC used to have a bad
discharge too but I haven't seen any since feeding RAW. So I guess
I will start looking around and interviewing for a new vet for my
animals. I want one that will not frown on RAW fed dogs. Thank you
everyone for your wonderful advice on here and support. I now
believe in RAW and find myself telling many people and laugh when
they look at me like I am crazy. I may be crazy in thier eyes but
my dogs look a heck of a lot prettier than theirs do.

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Re: Introducing myself and Zachary
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 10:54 am ((PDT))

Hi, Mia!
Welcome to the raw side!
Here's some recommendations to start out with;

4. Feed a little less at each meal at first than you think you should.
Too much new food over the course of a day or two can cause digestive
upset, too.

http://www.icelandpure.com/salmon_oil.htm

In the case of true
disease, you may need certain supps, but this is the exception to the
rule, most dogs donâ™t.

18. Lis' List; ways to creatively source cheaper variety in protein,
parts and organs. FreeCycle and craigslist are great ways to find a
free or cheap freezer to hold all the scores you'll be making!

âœ Where do you look for meat suppliers?

Permission to repost from Lis

Lisâ

19. Donâ™t hover! It takes some dogs a couple of days to realize that
what youâ™re giving them is real food. This process will take less time
if youâ™re not standing over them in an excess of anxiety. Some dogs
react to that kind of anxiety by acting as if they donâ™t want the
food, when in reality, they are just confused by your mixed signals.
Remember, âœpeople foodâ has always been off limits to him prior to
this! Take the food to his feeding place, put it on an old towel or
rug and have a seat. Donâ™t stare, but do hang out, reading a magazine
until heâ™s done and you can let him outside and fold up his towel.

> Ok chopped up chicken, bones and all? and just into quarters? no
smaller? about how much should I give him per day?
<snip>
> What is considered edible bone? (other than, obviously, chicken.)
>
> After a week is it ok to give him game meat? Hunting season starts
tomorrow and he always gets the heart and liver when my friends get a
deer.
>
> Thank you,
> Mia

Hi all,
<snip>
How do I safely switch Zach to a raw feed diet? What foods are
acceptable for a raw feed diet?

He had sliced raw organic chicken and two big meaty bones last night,
and this morning my husband confessed to giving him some cooked rice,
potatoes and carrots. I put my foot down and said no more of that
until I've learned the correct food to give him. Is a raw feed diet
strictly a meat diet?
<snip>
Have a Great Day!
Mia Emery

Messages in this topic (5)
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11b. Re: Introducing myself and Zachary
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 3:20 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/8/2007 3:19:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,
briarbaby_04@yahoo.com writes:

Ok chopped up chicken, bones and all? and just into quarters? no smaller?
about how much should I give him per day? He's a full grown afghan and this
chicken looks a bit small by comparison. So one chicken? a half chicken? or two?

Mia,

for a full grown afghan i think half chicken is probably small enough. you
don't want to make the pieces small enough that he can swallow without chewing
or ripping and tearing..

And any time you're ready to introduce game meat is fine..

Edible bone are NON weight bearing bones of BIG animals (cows, deer, elk,
etch) and most of the bones from smaller animals (pigs, sheep, goats, poultry of
any size).

i wish we could get game meat here.. i'm sooooo jealous.
Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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12a. Re: Goop in eyes
Posted by: "rokedemyah" rokedemyah@yahoo.com rokedemyah
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 12:41 pm ((PDT))

What kind of dogs do you have? reason I ask is when we researched our
" unknown" (Brownie, who turns out to be an Italian mastiff.) to see
if we could find his breed, we saw that his kind has this
perpetually.(so they say)

Barb

-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mz_boomer2" <mz_boomer2@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "meg_helmes" <mhelmes@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > >>>My question is my papillon now has
> > > yellowish white goop coming out of her eyes.<<<
> >
> > Prior to Raw feeding my dog Ruby, she also had eye boogers every day,
> > especially in the mornings. It seemed like they got worse during the
> > first few weeks of raw, but after a month or so, she doesn't have any
> > problems at all.
>
> > ~Meg

Messages in this topic (9)
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13a. Re: Puppy throws up and soft stools
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 12:42 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Laurie
Yes, I do feed on a schedule, in the morning around 7-8am and then
after work around 6-7pm. He eats chiken with bone, quarters,
legs,wings, that particular week he ate beef with no bone and some
chiken legs. I also feed pork and organs like gizzards, liver, heart.
The dog is 6 mo old. He did not throw up this night, but did not poop
either. So I am planning on giving him some liver to make him go. But
again, my hubby is concerned about soft/mucusy stools and so I am a
little bit. When we just started raw his poop was very hard and nice
looking you could pick it up.
he also eats grass sometimes to make himself throw up. I don't think
he is "expecting" food at 4 am.
Vickie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Vickie,
>
> Do you feed on a schedule? How old is your dog? How many times a
> day do you feed? Do you normally feed early in the morning and
have
> changed that schedule? The bile vomits are usually due to
expecting
> food and not getting it--the stomach gears up with all the
> acids/enzymes and then gets rid of them when they're not needed to
> digest food. The solution is to randomize the feeding and not do
it
> at precise times, but if you get back to us with more details, we
can
> help you more specifically.
>
> As far as the mucousy/soft stool, what are you feeding exactly?
>
> Sorry about the disagreement w/your hubby. That does make it tough.
>
> Laurie
>
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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14a. Re: Rawfeeding Small Dogs
Posted by: "Jeanne Faletti" jackienjeanne@talktalk.net
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 2:20 pm ((PDT))

Hi Denise,

I've been meaning to write for a week now but at present have 834 emails to get through, but seeing this mail I had to tell you that you are right and she is wrong. I fed Kushti a raw chicken drumstick this week and she ate all but the middle of the main bone.

So thanks for your reply and the help, she's doing very well on raw. Jeanne.
----- Original Message -----
From: Denise Strother
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 1:45 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Rawfeeding Small Dogs

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Messages in this topic (6)
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15a. Re: coprophagy
Posted by: "Marjorie Trebino" mtrebino39@hotmail.com marjoriettt
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 3:18 pm ((PDT))

What a timely question. I adopted an old girl 8 years old that ate poop. I
have had her for four years and could not break her. For the last 3 months
we have been feeding raw and she had stopped eating poop until last week and
she has started again. I was sure hoping the raw feeding was my answer. I
have thought about this and the amount of bone I have given in this last
week or two is a lot less than I had been feeding. I was wondering if that
might have had somethng to do with the fact that she went back to snacking
between meals. margie

>From: Michael Moore <m-tak@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
>To: raw list <rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [rawfeeding] re: coprophagy
>Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:26:23 -0700 (PDT)
>
> >>Has anyone noticed if raw feeding effects changes in a dog with
>coprophagy?<<
>
>Steve -- in my experience, no. Dogs who were poop-eaters on ki**le
>remained poop eaters on raw foods. And, dogs without that habit did not
>develop it when switched to raw. My puppies, from a rawfed dam, and weaned
>to raw, have not developed the habit, but whether it's related to their
>diet is unknown.
>
>
>-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden
>rescue) in NW Ohio
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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16a. Bladder Stones
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 5:01 pm ((PDT))

Hello gang....okay I have switched another!!!!!! LOL
My friend who has three Frenchies has taken the plunge!!!!! I am
asking the group, if anything different should take place because one
of his girls had surgery for bladder stones, and "gets" them. Is
there something different he should do?
Thanks gang,
Suz Kate and Joey

Messages in this topic (7)
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17. Situation
Posted by: "Cathy" csc12122005@yahoo.com csc12122005
Date: Sat Sep 8, 2007 5:02 pm ((PDT))

Ok, Bengal has been eating chicken fine this till week, he wont touch
it. I put it down and he looks at me like I have two heads and either
proceeds to completely cover with the towel (when he eats in the house
he eats on a towel) or just walks away.

He just will not touch anything raw since he got hurt on Wednesday at
the dog park. We had an ER visit and were up all night with him
screaming in pain and uncomfortable, so of course he did not eat and
he did not eat on thursday (or at least much) since we had a regular
vet visit and more morphine.

Long story short, if I give him his pork it must be seared all around
in order for him to eat it. He wont eat the ground beef and veggies
(which he usually adores) and no chicken (even if it is seared).

Anyone have a finicky greyhound or other dog? WHAT do I do??

Thanks
Cathy
AKA Bengals Mom/Slave

Messages in this topic (1)
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