Feed Pets Raw Food: Jun 7, 2007

Re: [rawfeeding] New to group

Welcome Byron, Barb, Brandi, Bomani and of course, Angelina!
Glad you joined our little group.
Jeni
Owned, operated, and often tricked by my two dane sibblings, Zeus and Zena and our cat Lucky, he's just lucky we let him live here!

----- Original Message ----
From: wyzord7 <wyzord7703@comcast.net>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2007 12:33:39 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] New to group

Hi everyone. Just wanted to introduce ourselves and our dogs. My name
is Byron and my wife's is Barb. We have three dogs; an 11 year old
mixed shepherd (Brandi),a 10 month old male South African Boerboel
(Bomani), and a 10 month old female Cane Corso (Angelina). We have
been feeding raw food for around 3 to 4 months now and the dogs simply
love it.

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Re: [rawfeeding] What do you stock your freezer with?

Whatever I can, whatever's on sale, whatever I am given, whatever I hit with the truck, (just kiddin)
Lot's of the same
whole chickens
lamb necks
pigs feet
buffalo ribs
lamb trim
beef trim
deer
beef ribs
pork ribs
hamburger
potato skins, for me:)
turkey
chicken feet
freezer burn, whatever, given by friends
and all kinds of stuff, it changes often:)
jeni
Owned, operated, and often tricked by two dane sibblings, Zeus and Zena, and the cat Lucky, who's lucky we let him live here, that's dad's quote:)

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

On Jun 7, 2007, at 1:15 PM, helpshelteranimals wrote:

> LOL!! Please tell me that these three items are eaten by the dog
> only!
>
> *wink*
>
> AG & Ruffian - Mystery Mutt

I have tasted the meat around the gullet; it's very substantial and
tough. Once we had a leftover one that I used to make soup - I save
everything for the soup pot, and then steal a few meaty bones from
Tomo's stuff besides.

I have tasted green tripe, out of curiosity. I don't eat it. Chicken
feet are lovely, and appreciated by many cultures. Again, soup, and
also dim sum, and some eastern European dishes come to mind. I was
brought up in a house that valued every part we could get. Brains,
liver, kidney, tripe, pig feet, sweetbreads - and chicken feet:)

You didn't mention the salmon oil. I drink it straight from the bottle.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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[rawfeeding] Re: skin - organ?

tamara wrote:

>is skin (chicken)classified as an organ?
>Heart - muscle or organ?

Anything that can contract, or move on it's own, is a muscle. So a heart is a
muscle. A tongue is a muscle. Gizzards are too, but you get a pass for not
knowing that.

You can also go by feel - if it needs to be chewed, it's muscle.

Organs can be identified by the Squidge Rule. If you touch it and it
squidges, it's an organ. Organs include liver, kidney, spleen, pancreas and
lung.

Raw, unprocessed, unbleached, green tripe is a special item unto it's own,
because it so rich with nutrients.

Hearts are very rich in nutrients, though, so be careful about amounts until
you and your dog know how much can be handled.

As far as skin - it's not even a question I would've considered - it's
neither muscle nor organ in our context, it's flesh. I feed skin, along with
a moderate amount of fat, along with the muscle meat it comes with.

Lora
Evanston, IL

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Re: [rawfeeding] do chipmunks count? from Newbie

Lynne,
So, what's the cat eatin? But if the cat don't want it, pardon the english or lack there of it, then sure, let the dog steal it! Mmmmm, chipmunk, tasty.............can't see why not, it's prey model, he didn't have to hunt it, but as long as he does his own chewing, and doesn't make the cat do that for him, should be ok:) imho:)
Jeni
Oh, and welcome!

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[rawfeeding] Re: Drats/Intestines

Dianne M. wrote:

>Sausages? I am not a cook; all I know about sausages
>is that Jimmy Dean makes good ones!! I just opened
>the box of this stuff and finally read the label. It
>says Beef Tripas Braided/Marrow Gut/Small Intestine.
>It looks pretty weird. It has no casing but is long
>strips of this reddish and white stuff, braided
>together. Can't tell anything about the smell 'cause
>it's still pretty frozen. What the heck have I
>gotten?

Ah!

Beef Tripas is the small intestine.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripas

Braided Marrow Gut is . . . well, you'd better read it for yourself:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonofabitch_stew

Sounds like you could make yourself a stew . . .

It's probably about as nutritious as beef tendon - something to chew on, like
bad calamari.

Lora
Evanston, IL

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[rawfeeding] Re: Feeding small dog

Hi there,

Just wanted to help clarify--your calculations are slightly off...2% of
body weight would be .2 lbs = 3.2 ozs. But even that is probably not
enough. Smaller dogs tend to need a higher percentage of body weight.
My 20 lb. Boston eats more like 3-4% per day. So 3% for your dog would
be .3 lbs., or 4.8 ozs. And 4% is .4 lbs., or 6.4 ozs. Unless your
dog is overweight, I would probably just start on the higher end and
see how it goes. You can always cut back. Or pick somewhere in the
middle. Or feed more some days and less on others. Later on, you
might also want to consider feeding larger portions less often, if you
like that idea. I like feeding my dog big stuff, so I do that
sometimes to often (feed a goat leg or something every other day or
so). But you can do just fine feeding more often (every day). Maybe
the smaller dog people can chime in on more specific cuts that work
best for daily feedings. Chicken wings are very high in bone, but you
could feed one with some added meat, or if necessary, only let the dog
eat half of it (plus some added meat) and serve the rest later. Other
ways to get more meat into the diet might be a bone-in chicken breast
(if it's too big just save the remainder for the next day) one meal,
maybe a chicken drumstick with some added meat or organs, maybe some
fish, maybe pork or lamb ribs or riblets with added meat...Or you can
just feed bonier meals surrounded by meatier meals. Whatever works for
your dog. I'm sure others will help, too!

Good luck!

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sal" <salpjr@...> wrote:
>
> I have a 10 pound dog, sort of low energy, and was wondering how I
can
> best satisfy him when all he should eat per day is 2oz of total food.

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[rawfeeding] skin - organ?

is skin (chicken)classified as an organ?
Heart - muscle or organ?

tamara

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[rawfeeding] Re: Feeding small dog

it sounds crazy, but that might satisfy him. although smaller dogs
sometimes need more than 2%. i have an 8lb mini dachshund and i give
her about 3-4 oz. a day, sometimes more or less, and she's maintaining
her weight beautifully. if you think your dog is getting too
skinny/fat, then adjust accordingly. there's nothing written in
stone. i'm sure when my doxie gets older and lazier i will need to
reduce her meal size, but right now, she's such a little wild thing
that she NEEDS those calories!

tammy & grover (who loves her little dachshund cousin.)

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[rawfeeding] Re: Feeding small dog

Hi:

Yes, 2oz does seem very little -- for a 10lb dog it should be 3-4 oz
per day. I have dogs in the same weight range and I feed roughly 4oz
per day, but I say "roughly" because it varies. Sometimes it might be
a lot more, but part of it is a bone that is not edible, but getting
the edible bits off the bone is a workout, as in beef ribs. Sometimes
it is less, but I check the look of the dog and take into account how
much exercise he or she is getting.

The answer seems to be to feed a little sometimes and a lot sometimes
to be able to include things that are larger. Some small dogs need to
be fed twice, some not, depends on dog. Some dogs can be fed a lot
one day and nothing the next, which provides opportunity to give
larger chunks and greater variety.

You need much more variety than than chicken wings which, by
themselves are way too bony. If you are in the breaking in stage and
have to stick to one protein source, try drumsticks, part of a breast,
or quite simply get a whole chicken and hack it up into meal size
chunks. Put chunks into freezer bags and freeze. Then you are
feeding prey model.

When you are out of the chicken phase and want to add more variety,
you can find a bunch of things that will fit the 3-4 oz serving size
or less or more. Rabbit, goat, beef of all sorts, fish, lamb, green
tripe, etc.

HTH

Philippa Jordan
New York City

P.S. Here is a raw food calculator:
http://www.hare-today.com/feed.php#feedcalc

> I have a 10 pound dog, sort of low energy, and was wondering how I
can
> best satisfy him when all he should eat per day is 2oz of total
food.

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[rawfeeding] Re: Feeding small dog

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sal" <salpjr@...> wrote:
>
> I have a 10 pound dog, sort of low energy, and was wondering how I
can
> best satisfy him when all he should eat per day is 2oz of total
food.
> When I put the meat on the scale, it really looks like nothing! A
> chicken wing alone weighs more than 2oz, and this is a days
ration. I
> am concerned about percentage of meat to bone plus organs when the
> amount is so tiny. Thanks for any help.

Hi,

I also have a dog 9lb 8oz and he's low energy too. Lately he's
been a little off his feed so eating about 4 oz a day instead of the
6 he usually eats.
I think you'll find that the smaller dogs need a little more than the
quoted rates.....you can always cut back if they seem to be getting
chunky, lol.
If yours is an older dog, he also needs less bone.
When you're doing that weighing make sure you're weighing meat and
not bone........

Mine will usually put away a chicken leg or a thigh in a day or
an equal amount of beef.........

Got a freezer full of goodies for him but it's gonna be a long
time for him to go through them all........

Carol & Charkee the Russian

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Drats/Intestines

--- Bearhair <bearhair@spamcop.net> wrote:

> You'll have to use them to make sausage for the
> dogs.

Hi Lora:

Sausages? I am not a cook; all I know about sausages
is that Jimmy Dean makes good ones!! I just opened
the box of this stuff and finally read the label. It
says Beef Tripas Braided/Marrow Gut/Small Intestine.
It looks pretty weird. It has no casing but is long
strips of this reddish and white stuff, braided
together. Can't tell anything about the smell 'cause
it's still pretty frozen. What the heck have I
gotten?

Dianne M.

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[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

Hi,

I just picked up a nice Kenmore 14.8 cubic feet chest freezer for the
garage. I have one Boxer pup @ about 45 lbs. In my freezer, I only
have:

30 lbs. pork necks (large pieces)
30 lbs. turkey necks
ground turkey
10 lbs. chicken leg quarters
chicken livers
chicken gizzards
ground beef
pork rump roast

But I did just get it and am waiting on an order from a farm in
Michigan which will be 170 lbs of an awesome variety to include goat
chunks, whole skinned rabbits, lamb and beef hearts, ground green tripe
with trachea/gullet/spleen in it, lamb briskets, pork ribs, pork feet,
beef kidneys, lamb necks, and ground turkey with bones and organs in it!

I'm excited to stock it fully for the first time!

Brian & Sampson the Boxer

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Ross Senger" <rosssenger@...> wrote:
>
> What do you stock your freezer with?

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[rawfeeding] Re: Fish oil amounts?

Ok, thanks again :-)

I will quit bugging about this and look for the more basic stuff you
said...with the EPA and DHA being like the only thing in it.

I know it won't be a magical cure for my dogs' skin issues and
allergies, and once we switch completely to raw feeding, I may not
even need the fish oil, as I plan ("plan" being the key word) to feed
a fish meal or two a week. I was just thinking maybe I could get a
jump start on the skin/allergy stuff with added fish oil.

Oh, and I have people bringing me their freezerburnt meat soon.
Amazing how you can get people-grade, but people don't want it
anymore, and it is definitely dog-grade...and it's free!

anndrea

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[rawfeeding] Feeding small dog

I have a 10 pound dog, sort of low energy, and was wondering how I can
best satisfy him when all he should eat per day is 2oz of total food.
When I put the meat on the scale, it really looks like nothing! A
chicken wing alone weighs more than 2oz, and this is a days ration. I
am concerned about percentage of meat to bone plus organs when the
amount is so tiny. Thanks for any help.

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.
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[rawfeeding] Re: Fish oil amounts?

"Anndrea" <anndreae@...> wrote:
>
> What do you think of this one?
>
> It says three capsules have:
> 1070mg Total Omega-3 fatty acids
> which includes:
> 460mg EPA
> 480mg DHA
> 50mg DPA
> 80mg Stearidonic, Eicosatrienoic, Eicosatetraenoic,
> Heneicosapentaenoic, and Alpha-Linolenic acids
*****
Although the product says a dose is three capsules, when you divide
the combined EPA and DHA amounts (940mg) by three you get a combined
total of 300+mg , which works. So I don't see why a dose is
considered three capsules except to make them more money. IMO you
can use this product as if each capsule were 1000mg because each
capsule hits the 300mg mark.

However, for dogs there is no good reason to feed ALA (alpha-
linolenic acid); this is a plant-based oil (typically flaxseed) and
while it is a precursor to linolenic acid (Omega 3) it must be
converted first which is a highly inefficient process--lots of energy
for not much result. So you're paying for something your dogs do not
need.

Similarly, DPA is an Omega-6 based essential fatty acid. Your dogs
do not need more Omega 6 in any form if you rely heavily on feedlot
meats and factory poultry.

I'd say you should be able to find a reasonably priced product that
confines itself primarily to EPA and DHA in a combined amount of
300mg per capsule. The label should list the sources of its oils--
anything beyond the oily, stinky fish we talk about here--salmon,
mackerel, herring, anchovy, menhaden--is not important and anything
plant-based is irrelevant. Seal oil is also a good source of Omega 3
fatty acids but I don't believe it's sold in the USA. I may be wrong.

FWIW, I am currently using Rexall fish oil and Rexall salmon oil from
Walmart. Not nearly as fancy as the products you are finding, but
direct and to the point and reasonably priced.

> That would only be three a day per dog, I think?
*****
Well, not as they pitch the product no, BUT because each capsule
manages to offer a total of 300mg (combined EPA and DHA), you can get
close enough with three per dog per day. (Believe it or not, this is
not rocket science.)

If you were to follow their guidelines of one dose being THREE
capsules, you'd have to feed 12 a day. Boy would the manufacturer be
happy!

And possibly be
> splitting one between a couple of cats a day?
*****
Seems okay...but remember--this product also includes flaxseed oil
(probably) and at least one other plant-based oil (DPA). While these
are of doubtful value for a dog, they have no value for a cat at all.

Again, you are paying for ingredients your animals cannot use.

> Sorry to keep asking, but I have no idea what they need, and I
> appreciate the numbers you have given me. I just really want to get
> all these skin and allergies under control as quickly as possible
(but
> safely) and can't start constant raw feeding until July.
*****
Well, the problem is even with a good fish oil supplement, you cannot
be assured of controlling skin problems. It is rare that a problem
should be so easily remedied...usually skin issues and "allergies"
are but symptoms of deeper illness; a busted immune system is not
likely to be fixed with just fish oil.

Yes, you can supplement with fish oil. It can help correct
imbalances from whatever you are currently feeding. But I suggest
you not expect a turnaround at this point. A beginning perhaps, but
not a conclusion.

Good luck!
Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Addicted; was Feeling Frustrated and ready to give up Raw

In a message dated 6/7/2007 8:53:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_luvbirds@warwick.net _ (mailto:luvbirds@warwick.net?Subject=
Re:%20Feeling%20Frustrated%20and%20ready%20to%20give%20up%20Raw) writes:

> I think someone mentioned this but I seemed to be
> addicted to shopping for my dogs, it is so exciting to find great
> deals at the store and then seeing how happy my dogs are. >

This is exactly like me! I am addicted to getting great deals on dog
food!

***
Heck, why didn't somebody warn me about this addiction! I've NEVER been a
shopper, just one who grudgingly spares the time to buy what I have to buy. Now
I'm spending my Saturdays happily foraging through ethnic markets and
farmers' markets, looking for new meats for the cats! I had to fight off an impulse
after work today to go to a specialty market that I went to last weekend,
don't need anything from right now, and can't afford to spend any more money
right now, even if they did have something great. I was just dying to see what
they might have gotten in since Saturday! This is VERY strange, for me. :)

Lynda

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[rawfeeding] Re: Where's the poop?

In a message dated 6/7/2007 8:53:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_rosssenger@shaw.ca _ (mailto:rosssenger@shaw.ca?Subject= Re:%20Where's%20the%20poop?)
writes:

what happens to cat
poo after switching. Does it disintegrate like dogs? is there a serious
decrease in waste you have to remove from the litter box? Does it come
out powdery if you feed to much bone?

***

You will not BELIEVE the difference in life with a litter box when your cats
are rawfed. :) Take it from one with a 3-cat family in 3 rooms! And yes, it
changes according to eating bones or fat just like dog poo changes...Well, I
guess...according to what I read here...seeing as how I don't have dogs. )

Lynda

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Re: [rawfeeding] need advice

There is no way for us to determine if your dog is over or under weight
without being able to see/touch her. What do you think? How does she look?
How does she feel? Are her ribs and bones sticking out?

You said she is getting raw meaty bones and some meat...what does that mean?
Is she getting enough meat and fat? Is she getting meals that satisfy her?
Why are you fasting her?

Sorry...lots of questions, but without details there is no way to determine
what is going on!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "sydoly" <sydoly@yahoo.com.au>
However I wonder if I am missing something. My dog is crossed Blue
heeler with Labrador, those breeds tend to overweight easily as we
have been told. I feed my dog raw meaty bones, some meat at times,
organic offal (once per month)and get occasionally table scrap (but it
is not often). Her food consist of free range chicken, turkey, beef
and lamb, and she gets sometimes sardines in cans. My concern is that
she weights about 30kg, she is medium size, since we start her new
diet , she has lost weight. she eats once per day and has a fast day
once per fortnight. we go out walking everyday, our walk is a normal
pace.
I try not to give her too much food because she is not really active,
she spends most of her day sleeping. I am worried because it seems
that she is always looking for more food. Am I not giving her enough?
Is her weight consider overweight? What am I missing or doing wrong?

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: turkey necks?

Ashael,

Rather than worry about organic or adding bony carcasses and backs to a diet
that is already high in bone and dominated by poultry, I'd get this gal some
meat and variety!!!! Look for some nice meaty meals of pork, lamb, goat,
beef....she requires tons of meat, a tiny bit of bone!!!

And no marrow bones...they are not a benefit, but rather break and wear them
down.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "happytails_7" <ashbi@eastlink.ca>
I'm new to rfd (4weeks)and have a 55lb 2 yr. old lab whom I've been
giving chunked chicken (a coarse grind of bone, organs and muscle
meat that my butcher does up once a month) usually for breakfast and
1/2 a lb. turkey neck cut in half (my hubby gets turkey necks free at
work) usually for dinner. I give marrow bones for her teeth. I mix
this up occasionally with ground beef, chicken legs etc. I wish I
could find cheap organic but maybe in the future. I know the grind is
not a great idea but for now am trying to find suppliers other then
the grocery store (expensive). My butcher is going to get me some
whole chicken carcasses and backs next month.

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: corned beef

Thanks Chris, I was afraid of that. So sad to get such a huge hunk of
meat and at such a super super price, only to have to give it away for
human consumption. See, I am a vegetarian, so will not eat it myself. LOL
Jai

costrowski75 wrote:
> Jai <JRedwing@...> wrote:
>
>> Can this be fed to my dogs?
>>
> *****
> I would not. It is processed. When you look at it, it looks cooked.
>
> Now, you maybe could feed through it over a loonnnngggg time, but
> again, I would not.
> Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Re: corned beef

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Jai <JRedwing@...> wrote:
>
> My lil grocery friend cheaply sold me some corned beef.
>
> Can this be fed to my dogs?

> Should I soak it overnight to get some of the brine out of it?
>

######## NO ! Corned beef has the same chemical salts in it that the
deli sausage , wieners and other cured meats have.

Nitrates and nitrites(carcinogens) are what keeps the reddish color
in old meat .

It is permeated into the meat and cannot be washed off.

Hurry up and cook it and have some wonderful corned beef sammies for
dinner ;-))

~Shirley

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[rawfeeding] Re: corned beef

Jai wrote:

>My lil grocery friend cheaply sold me some corned beef. It is sealed in
>a package with juices all around, and a sealed spice package floating
>inside. . . .
>
>Can this be fed to my dogs? It is fresh, just now the sell by date is
>approaching.
>Should I soak it overnight to get some of the brine out of it? What to
>do??? I have 2 - 3# packages of a solid piece of meat each. Got it at
>a real buy, and sure do need to feed it if possible, for I am having a
>hard time purchasing enough meat to feed my gang.

It should not be fed to a dog as part of a raw diet.

"Corned beef is a cut of beef (usually brisket, but sometimes round) cured or
pickled in a seasoned brine. The "corn" in "corned beef" refers to the "corn"
or grains of coarse salts used to cure it. . . . The term "corned beef" can
denote different styles of brine-cured beef, depending on the region. Some,
like American-style corned beef, are highly seasoned and often considered
delicatessen fare. In Britain, corned beef is usually bought at the
delicatessen, or may be in chilled packs or can be found in trapezoid cans,
imported from South America. American corned beef is similar to Canadian
smoked meat."
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corned_beef

The key to economically feeding raw is to know ahead of time what is
appropriate to purchase, and at what price. I am blessed to have not had to
pay attention to grocery prices much, but I am now working towards my
Bachelor's degree in meat shopping (that would be my BMS). Don't get sucked
into buying something until you do the research - check the product, check
the price, then make the purchase.

Ask your "lil grocery friend" to sell you a case of whole chickens (about 50
pounds) at cost. Then ask him for a case of bone-in pork shoulders. All he'll
have to do is carry it from the truck to his cooler and then to your shopping
cart. Now THAT's a friend!

Lora
Evanston, IL

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[rawfeeding] Newbie - Need advice on adding next type of meat

Hi
You all helped me initially with my almost 13 yo Golden (55#) and my
10 month old Golden pup (45#). They are both doing well for the last
couple of weeks on chicken breast and quarters and I've also added
beef heart. Right now they each eat about 1# per day and the beef
heart is about 4-6 oz of that amount. I've also given them chicken
liver about a tablespoon size, every few days. I think it's time to
add another meat and I'm not sure what would be good to try. (My older
dog gets meals more on the meaty side.) I've looked thru the meat
section at Wal mart and just don't have an idea what would be good to
start next. Also, when should I add FBO and/or salmon oil?
Thanks for your help!
Jill W

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[rawfeeding] Re: turkey necks?

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "skullgrrrl" <skullgrrrl@...>
wrote:
>
> i bought some turkey necks today, but a fellow raw feeder mentioned
> that she heard turkey necks might not be safe... the neck bones are
> small enough to swallow, but large enough to cause an obstruction.

> claire

>Hi,
I'm new to rfd (4weeks)and have a 55lb 2 yr. old lab whom I've been
giving chunked chicken (a coarse grind of bone, organs and muscle
meat that my butcher does up once a month) usually for breakfast and
1/2 a lb. turkey neck cut in half (my hubby gets turkey necks free at
work) usually for dinner. I give marrow bones for her teeth. I mix
this up occasionally with ground beef, chicken legs etc. I wish I
could find cheap organic but maybe in the future. I know the grind is
not a great idea but for now am trying to find suppliers other then
the grocery store (expensive). My butcher is going to get me some
whole chicken carcasses and backs next month. I have two questions,
does this sound ok and are turkey necks dangerous? Thanks in advance
for any feedback.
Ashael
ps her poop's great :-)

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[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

> *****
> Ain't the size of the freezer, it's the size of the baby GOATSSSSS!
> They were stillborn and weigh between five and 10 pounds. Each takes
> up less room than a whole turkey!
>
> But I do have multiple freezers.
> Chris

I wonder if we have to go to MFA (multiple freezers anonymous) for this condition.

I don't think it's that I feed raw, but that the freezers keep multiplying. I'm worried about
the electric bill more than I'm worried about my next meat score.

I looked in my freeze-ERS and wondered if I should really list what I found.
Besides all the usual stuff, I have sheep heads, goat heads, bagged fetus's, (not sure what
species), emu heads, goat, cow, emu necks, ostrich hearts, livers (from assorted species),
VERY GREEN tripe, lungs, more lungs, pork, rabbit heads, organ blend and a few assorted
bags of unidentified stuff that has been there a while.
Oh, theres also chicken, more chicken parts, venison and a bunch of bones.

For dinner I am going to freak my poor dogs out by having them polish off some whole
cow lungs that have been in the freezer for ages. The dogs think lungs are trick and are
usually not amused by them. They'll get some other stuff too that I'm trying to clear out.

Merril

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[rawfeeding] need advice

Hi

I have been feeding my dog raw food for about a year and half now. I
decided to change her diet when I started reading what is in
commercial pet food. And to be honest, feeding raw has much more
common sense than commercial pet food.
However I wonder if I am missing something. My dog is crossed Blue
heeler with Labrador, those breeds tend to overweight easily as we
have been told. I feed my dog raw meaty bones, some meat at times,
organic offal (once per month)and get occasionally table scrap (but it
is not often). Her food consist of free range chicken, turkey, beef
and lamb, and she gets sometimes sardines in cans. My concern is that
she weights about 30kg, she is medium size, since we start her new
diet , she has lost weight. she eats once per day and has a fast day
once per fortnight. we go out walking everyday, our walk is a normal
pace.
I try not to give her too much food because she is not really active,
she spends most of her day sleeping. I am worried because it seems
that she is always looking for more food. Am I not giving her enough?
Is her weight consider overweight? What am I missing or doing wrong?

please help me

thank you,
sydoly

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[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

Hmm....right now we have chicken backs, green tripe, beef w/ green tripe, duck feet, chicken feet, turkey legs, turkey necks, liver, chicken leg quarters, aaaand a bunch of ground beef.

Ian
LI, NY

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Do I really have to wait to go raw?

My dog that had IBD had flare ups on cooked veggies and any kind of
supplement.

Raw chicken breasts, bone in, skin off were the main thing that he could eat.

Good luck.

Ann, Norman and Angel Scamp (IBD, epilepsy, Hypothyroid, Cushingoid, immune
compromised, severe allergies)
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

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[rawfeeding] Re: Bully Sticks

They have them on ebay all of the time for good prices.

Bobbie

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[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

"emilystep" <emilystep@...> wrote:
> Chris, I have to ask. How big is your freezer that you can fit
> whole baby GOATSSSSS??
*****
Ain't the size of the freezer, it's the size of the baby GOATSSSSS!
They were stillborn and weigh between five and 10 pounds. Each takes
up less room than a whole turkey!

But I do have multiple freezers.
Chris

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[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

> > whole baby goats

Chris O

Do you feed the baby goats whole or do you chop them up into meal size
chunks?

I know my brother bagged some deer last hunting season, but he skinned
em and chopped them into 4 lb chunks for his Mals.

-Ross

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Re: [rawfeeding] Gulping

--Original Message Text---
From: Patty
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 08:50:19 -0700

I just started feeding my yorkies raw meat last night, they did well
with beef back ribs. This morning I gave them pieces of boneless
beef. One of them gulped down a one ounce piece of it. I plan to
grind it up in the future when it's boneless, but I'm worried about
this big piece. Will he be able to digest it okay, so that he
doesn't get plugged up? It seems like a big piece for a 6 lb dog.

_____

The good thing about raw meat is that the "filler" in it doesn't expand in the gut. <G>

He will be able to digest it fine.

My Labs manage to scarf our BBQ steaks down in a second without any problems. :-)

Cathy

Busydog Ventures ~ www.busydogventures.com
Focused on healthy minds and bodies!

Looking for Conformation and Puppy Manners classes this summer?
Reproduction Seminar with Dr. Robert Van Hutchison in October 2007!

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Re: [rawfeeding] Admin

> However, if you'd like to drop over and wash a few dogs for me,
> and
> try and teach the cats basic manners, I'm more than happy to sit
> here
> and trim your messages. Fair swap I say!

Jane

Where is Australia? If there is a place to sleep and some food there I might make the trip :D, just not sure how the puppies would do on the flight from Canada (i don't think they would let me buy seats for my Danes.

Cheers,

Ross

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[rawfeeding] Re: Do I really have to wait to go raw?

"mwood8402" <mwood8402@...> wrote:
> The nutritionist did tell me to feed veggies (cooked and
> blenderized), which I thought was wrong. But again, she said that
he
> needed them because of his IBD. I told her what I had read on this
> list and she said that people on the internet have "tunnel vison
and
> think only one way is right" and have no formal education and blah
> blah blah. She also insisted that cooked and blenderized veggies
> could be digested.
*****
If you don't agree with the goal, it's tunnel vision. If you agree
with the goal, it's called keeping your eye on the prize. This is
never gonna change.

Processed veggies can be digested because the processing (whether
it's blendering or freezing or cooking) breaks down the cellulose
that dogs on their own with their own set of tools cannot break
down.

The issue, to me, is not whether these processed veggies can be
digested, but rather why a wolf's food should be subject to
artificial intervention in the first place. It seems awfully awfully
simple to me: if the wolf on its own in its own environment cannot
digest unprocessed veggies, the wolf does not require veggies as a
source of nutrition. Anything processed veggies can provide, a
wolf's species appropriate diet will also provide--digested and ready
to be put to use.

> Kai is also possibly allergic to chicken. At least, he has never
> done well on a chicken based kibble. But it could have been
> something else in there, even though I was supposedly feeding
> a "super premium kibble" I guess he never did well on any kibble,
> but seemed to do worse on chicken kibble. Anyway, do you guys
think
> I should start him on chicken anyway?
*****
It's pretty useless to rely on the results of chicken kibble to
determine the value of minimally processed raw chicken. If you want
to try chicken, try it. If you're comfortable with the results from
cooked lamb, beef and fish, continue with them raw. You can always
introduce chicken later. Or never.

Problem with lamb and beef is a basic lack of edible bone, especially
for a newbie dog. Chicken offers edible bone. That and price are
probably chicken's greatest contributions to raw feeding.

On the plus side you don't need to feed bone right off, so you don't
have to resolve the edible bone issue immediately. On the minus side
though, edible bone is the "fiber" that IBD dogs may require. I
mean, forget calcium for the time being.

If you can't find an acceptable source of edible bone, you have to
find something. If processed veggies are the likely "fiber"
candidate, then maybe--for now--you have to use them. Perhaps your
nutritionist is not familiar/comfortable with the idea of meaty raw
bones. That might explain her infatuation with cooked veggies.

Push comes to shove, I'd rather see cooked veggies used as "fiber"
than grains (ack!).

Right now he's eating cooked
> fish, beef, and lamb.
*****
I'd really like to know ALL of what you're feeding. What supplements
are you using? Are you adding calcium? Are you using grains or
veggies as roughage?
Chris O

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Fish oil amounts?

Ditto what Chris said.
--
Tina Berry
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

> Right now my collection of frozen dogfood includes:
>
> lamb trim
> beef trim
> venison
> turkey breasts and trim
> turkey necks (for the cat)
> lamb shoulder chops (for the cat)
> lamb shanks
> lamb breasts
> pork roasts
> chicken backs (to feed with meat trim)
> chicken breasts (to feed to visiting dogs)
> 10lb ground beef
> whole turkeys
> whole chickens
> whole rabbits
> whole baby goats
> whole quail (for the cat)
> beef liver
> beef spleen
> sardines
> salmon heads
> Salmon oil
>
> Chris O
>

Chris, I have to ask. How big is your freezer that you can fit
whole baby GOATSSSSS??

Emily and Blake (who now realizes that perhaps there are larger
freezers out there than he originally thought)

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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Do I really have to wait to go raw?

Hi Melissa,

I feel for you!! I hope your baby comes around soon.

Back in my misguided days of homecooking, I used to give Summer
boiled chicken or steamed fish or canned mackerels as her meat part
of the diet. (I know! I know!!) So when I switched to raw, I thought
I could give her fish in the raw since she was already eating it
cooked. The first three days were fish, and she tolerated it well. I
gave her whiting - a slightly oily but not too rich fish. I would
second giving him raw fish to see how he tolerates it. Fish bones are
incredibly soft and digestible so it may go easy on him too.

I DO give a salmon body oil that comes in a bottle. Look out for soy
in some fish oil capsules if you prefer to go the capsule route. I
use Lakse Kronch oil, and S loves slurping it off her meals before
she digs in.

HTH!

Jacinta & Summer

On Jun 7, 2007, at 11:11 AM, mwood8402 wrote:Right now he's eating
cooked
> fish, beef, and lamb. Would it be better to start out with something
> he's already used to?
>
> Thanks so much!
> -Melissa W

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[rawfeeding] Re:Where's the poop?

You might still be looking for those ginormous piles of poop but they may now be so small you're not seeing them, especially if your grass is on the long side! Ha Ha! Isn't it great?

Bobbie

RoverRescue.org
DogsDeserveBetter.org

No gadget or fad will ever replace the magic of respectful dialogue with your dog in his language and not yours.

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[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

We have 6 dogs plus a foster dog averaging 4o lbs. each, and a 21.5
cf deep freeze. It's currently loaded with:
Beef Trim
Beef & Pork Heart
Beef & Pork Liver,
Beef & Pork Kidney
Beef & Pork Spleen
Beef & Pork Lung
Beef & Pork Esophagus
2 complete Hog Heads (Oh Boy!)
Pigs Feet (whole, hair on, mmmm.....)
Misc. Deer Meat
Lots of Misc. Beef & Pork Bones (with a little meat)
Temporarily out of Chicken & Turkey

Misty @ Rodeo Ranch USA
(a.k.a. Panzino's Ranch for Wayward Dogs)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Ross Senger" <rosssenger@...>
wrote:
........ What do you stock your freezer with?
>

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[rawfeeding] Gulping

I just started feeding my yorkies raw meat last night, they did well
with beef back ribs. This morning I gave them pieces of boneless
beef. One of them gulped down a one ounce piece of it. I plan to
grind it up in the future when it's boneless, but I'm worried about
this big piece. Will he be able to digest it okay, so that he
doesn't get plugged up? It seems like a big piece for a 6 lb dog.

Patty and the brat pack
Never trust a dog to watch your food. --Patrick age 10 Advice from Kids

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[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

"Josephine Morningstar" <josephine.morningstar@...> wrote:
> How much salmon oil DOES one give to a 125 lb pyr?? (not fat but
muscled out
> for mobility work, as she is my service dog. )
*****
Liquid? Follow the directions from the manufacturer. Hard to know for
sure but a tablespoon a day would probably be fine as a maintenance
dose for your pry. More for a therapeutic dose.

Capsules? 180mg EPA and 120mg DHA per 30#-20# of dog; for your pyr
you're looking at four to six capsules a day. More if health issues
indicate.

Ajusted however the heck you want to. (These numbers are not writ in
stone. Or blood.)
Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

"Ross Senger" <rosssenger@...> wrote:
> What do you stock your freezer with?
*****
Right now my collection of frozen dogfood includes:

lamb trim
beef trim
venison
turkey breasts and trim
turkey necks (for the cat)
lamb shoulder chops (for the cat)
lamb shanks
lamb breasts
pork roasts
chicken backs (to feed with meat trim)
chicken breasts (to feed to visiting dogs)
10lb ground beef
whole turkeys
whole chickens
whole rabbits
whole baby goats
whole quail (for the cat)
beef liver
beef spleen
sardines
salmon heads
Salmon oil

Chris O

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[rawfeeding] Re: Do I really have to wait to go raw?

Thanks!

So you were eventually able to feed him a variety of foods then? How
long did you wait before adding a new item?

I'm so sorry that you lost your baby. :-( He was lucky to have
someone that took such good care of him!

-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi, Melissa!
> Don't wait, start you guy on raw asap!
> I rescued a little Schippy 3 years ago, he was about 7-10 yo at the
> time. He had uncontrollable diarrhea, was in constant terrible
> abdominal pain and was bare of fur on his back and sides. I already
> had been a raw feeder for quite some time, but fiddled with cooked
> foods for weeks, until I settled on canned fish as the only cooked
> protein he could tolerate. When I *finally started feeding him raw,
he
> was ecstatic, and did so much better. He mostly only tolerated
> chicken, but could, and did, eat bone and some skin. Most fat I had
to
> trim from the meat. He loved beef and chicken heart and gizzards and
> liver and fish. When he had flares, Slippery Elm Bark Powder helped
> soothe him until he was settled again.
> He was a happy little guy, and health wise, I felt he had come a
long
> way from when I adopted him. But unfortunately, I lost him to a very
> sudden onset of illness due to a large tumor on his liver, almost 3
> weeks ago.
> Perky never would have lived as long as he did with me, nor been as
> physically comfortable as he came to be, if I didn't feed him raw.
> So, my recommendation is, don't wait to feed your guy the best diet
> you can possibly give him.
> TC
> Giselle
> with Bea in New Jersey
>
> > When I joined this list, I was determined to switch to raw, and I
> still am.
> > But my dog has IBD, so vets and nutritionists have warned me about
> feeding him raw.
> > Does anyone have any opinions about this? Should I just stick out
> the 8-12
> > weeks to play it safe or should I switch to raw sooner?
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Melissa W
> >
>

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Feed Pets Raw Food

Thursday, June 7, 2007

Re: [rawfeeding] New to group

Re: [rawfeeding] What do you stock your freezer with?

Re: [rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

[rawfeeding] Re: skin - organ?

Re: [rawfeeding] do chipmunks count? from Newbie

[rawfeeding] Re: Drats/Intestines

[rawfeeding] Re: Feeding small dog

[rawfeeding] skin - organ?

[rawfeeding] Re: Feeding small dog

[rawfeeding] Re: Feeding small dog

[rawfeeding] Re: Feeding small dog

Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Drats/Intestines

[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

[rawfeeding] Re: Fish oil amounts?

[rawfeeding] Feeding small dog

[rawfeeding] Re: Fish oil amounts?

[rawfeeding] Addicted; was Feeling Frustrated and ready to give up Raw

[rawfeeding] Re: Where's the poop?

Re: [rawfeeding] need advice

Re: [rawfeeding] Re: turkey necks?

Re: [rawfeeding] Re: corned beef

[rawfeeding] Re: corned beef

[rawfeeding] Re: corned beef

[rawfeeding] Newbie - Need advice on adding next type of meat

[rawfeeding] Re: turkey necks?

[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

[rawfeeding] need advice

[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Do I really have to wait to go raw?

[rawfeeding] Re: Bully Sticks

[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

Re: [rawfeeding] Gulping

Re: [rawfeeding] Admin

[rawfeeding] Re: Do I really have to wait to go raw?

Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Fish oil amounts?

[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

Re: [rawfeeding] Re: Do I really have to wait to go raw?

[rawfeeding] Re:Where's the poop?

[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

[rawfeeding] Gulping

[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

[rawfeeding] Re: What do you stock your freezer with?

[rawfeeding] Re: Do I really have to wait to go raw?

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