Feed Pets Raw Food: Nov 18, 2007

Sunday, November 18, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12291

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Want to start RAW feeding with Papillon
From: Annie Ness
1b. Re: Want to start RAW feeding with Papillon
From: Sandee Lee

2a. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw? - Alabama rot
From: spricketysprock
2b. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw? - Alabama rot
From: Sandee Lee

3. Want to start RAW feeding with Papillonþ
From: anniegness

4a. Looking for website with dogs eating all kinds of raw meats
From: aldona99
4b. Re: Looking for website with dogs eating all kinds of raw meats
From: Sandee Lee

5a. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
From: Roey
5b. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: where do I start?
From: diannem200400

7a. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
From: Sandee Lee
7b. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
From: katkellm
7c. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski
7d. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
From: kasiarukszto

8a. Tips on finicky eater?
From: jenna
8b. Re: Tips on finicky eater?
From: Sandee Lee
8c. Re: Tips on finicky eater?
From: rosey031801

9. Re: Alabama Rot...
From: Anntiga@aol.com

10.1. Question
From: jetblst2002
10.2. Re: Question
From: Sandee Lee

11a. Re: Deer Meat and Chronic Wasting Disease
From: katkellm
11b. Re: Deer Meat and Chronic Wasting Disease
From: costrowski75

12a. Re: excessive shedding
From: Giselle
12b. Re: excessive shedding
From: Giselle

13a. Re: turkey for little JRT?
From: costrowski75

Messages
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1a. Want to start RAW feeding with Papillon
Posted by: "Annie Ness" annieg91186@hotmail.com anniegness
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:52 pm ((PST))

Hi Everyone!

I am new to this group so I hope I do this right. I have an 8lb Papillon that I want to start to RAW feed. I have been doing a lot of research but I noticed that a lot of food ideas/recipes are for bigger dogs. I just don't think I can give my little gal a huge chunk of meat and bone. What I was hoping for is any advice from people with little dogs on what to feed. I know that I will start with something simple like chicken and move on from there. Also if anyone has any book recommendations, or other site recommendations that have more information for small dogs that would be great!!

Thanks Annie and the pap(Heidi)
_________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: Want to start RAW feeding with Papillon
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:35 pm ((PST))

Hi Annie,

There are a lot of people on this list feeding small dogs...and you'd be
surprised what they can eat! Here are a few pictures of small dogs/puppies
eating nice large hunks of food...

http://homepage.mac.com/rhbmgmt/PhotoAlbum14.html
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=7040435&uid=171870&members=1
http://i5.tinypic.com/14ybct1.jpg

Rather than a book or other sites, I would recommend going back and reading
past messages. I know we have quite a few chis, pugs and other smaller dogs
being fed raw. Just do a search on one of those breeds or even on Papillons
in the archives and see what you come up with. We do discuss this
frequently.

Obviously *I* don't know much about feeding small. <g>

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Annie Ness" <annieg91186@hotmail.com>
> I am new to this group so I hope I do this right. I have an 8lb Papillon
that I want to start to RAW feed. I have been doing a lot of research but I
noticed that a lot of food ideas/recipes are for bigger dogs. I just don't
think I can give my little gal a huge chunk of meat and bone. What I was
hoping for is any advice from people with little dogs on what to feed. I
know that I will start with something simple like chicken and move on from
there. Also if anyone has any book recommendations, or other site
recommendations that have more information for small dogs that would be
great!!

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw? - Alabama rot
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:52 pm ((PST))

Just wondering if anyone has heard of Alabama rot, which is supposedly
a fatal disease caused by E. Coli in raw meat... Has anyone had a
problem with E. Coli or any other bacteria in meat?

Thanks,
Jess & Toby

Messages in this topic (12)
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2b. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw? - Alabama rot
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:00 pm ((PST))

I've not heard of any problems. I've been feeding raw for 8 years, been on
this list for at least 4, where there are over 10,000 members and have not
heard about any dogs with e. coli or other bacterial infections caused by
diet. Carnivores have powerful digestive acids that kill harmful bacteria.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@gmail.com>

Just wondering if anyone has heard of Alabama rot, which is supposedly
a fatal disease caused by E. Coli in raw meat... Has anyone had a
problem with E. Coli or any other bacteria in meat?

Messages in this topic (12)
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3. Want to start RAW feeding with Papillonþ
Posted by: "anniegness" annieg91186@hotmail.com anniegness
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:52 pm ((PST))

Hi Everyone!

I am new to this group so I hope I do this right. I have an 8lb
Papillon that I want to start to RAW feed. I have been doing a lot of
research but I noticed that a lot of food ideas/recipes are for bigger
dogs. I just don't think I can give my little gal a huge chunk of meat
and bone. What I was hoping for is any advice from people with little
dogs on what to feed. I know that I will start with something simple
like chicken and move on from there. Also if anyone has any book
recommendations, or other site recommendations that have more
information for small dogs that would be great!!

Thanks Annie and the pap(Heidi)

Messages in this topic (1)
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4a. Looking for website with dogs eating all kinds of raw meats
Posted by: "aldona99" aldona99@yahoo.com aldona99
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:53 pm ((PST))

Hi,

I tried to look for the site myself, but there are so many veterans
here on this list, I'm sure they can help me find it again.

I read it on this list weeks ago. I thought I bookmarked the website,
but of course, I didn't.

I wanted to know what certain cuts of meats looked like. There were
also pictues of dogs crunching on deer heads, or whole rabbits. It's a
site I've not seen anywhere else. Does anyone know which site I'm
talking about? The owner of that site, is I believe, also on this list....

Thank you in advance..
Aldona in GErmany, trying to see what I can get my hands on here.

Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. Re: Looking for website with dogs eating all kinds of raw meats
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:56 pm ((PST))

Oh, that was Kevin's site.....
http://rawfeddogs.net

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "aldona99" <aldona99@yahoo.com>

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
Posted by: "Roey" desertgreyhounds@cox.net slvrfx1
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:53 pm ((PST))

> >
> >
> >
> > I have two rescued greyhounds that I would like to start feeding
> raw.

We have 4 rescued greyhounds. 3 of them have eaten raw for almost 7
years and the other one for 2 years-as long as we've had him. Having
that many large dogs usually produces huge piles of smelly waste-not so
when fed raw! They are healthier and our job of pick-up is so much
easier.

Roey Fowler
Slick-12, Pumba 11 1/2, Noevel 10, Raisin 7.

Messages in this topic (12)
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5b. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:24 pm ((PST))

"valpascale" <valpascale@...> wrote:
>>
> I'm new to the group and have just recently started transitioning
> from kibble (ack! dirty word!) and canned food to raw, so I'm still
> figuring things out and learning what my dogs like and don't like.
*****
This can be a useful method for switching cats, but there's no point to
it when working with dogs. You do not have to prolong the commercial
food agony one meal longer. Just put it away and start feeding real
food. Dogs will not starve themselves. Cats will.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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6a. Re: where do I start?
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:53 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dholloway26" <dholloway26@...>
wrote:
>
> OK, really excited about going back to what is natural for dogs! My
> husband fed our dogue de bordeaux (French mastiff) this morning and
> gave him 2 leg quarters. Since we are new, we are starting first
> with our dogue who has allergies
> How do you decide how much to feed?

Hi Debi:

I will only answer with regard to your dogue because I have 4 at home.
I have been feeding raw only for about 6 months, but it has done great
things for the dogues. I started with about 2 per cent of body weight
for amount, but found that was a little too much and had to cut back
some. It really depends on body shape and level of activity. I have
one dogue who is quite lean and he gets the meat with the most fat on
it. I also have one who has severe allergies. I have been advised by
the pros on this list that fish oil caps at therapeutic doses might
help, and that does seem to be working. A therapeutic dose would be
1000 mg per 10 or 20 pounds of body weight per day.

My hat is off to you with feeding all those dogs and kids! The raw
feeding will be less pricey for you if you search the archives and get
advice on where to look for bargain meat. I get most of mine from an
Hispanic grocer who gets it for me in 40 lb. boxes at just about
wholesale price. Beef heart is a staple in my house at .49 a pound.

Good luck!

Dianne M.

Messages in this topic (6)
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7a. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:54 pm ((PST))

Hi Kasia,

Here is some info about feeding ground diets.....

http://rawfed.com/myths/ground.html

I doubt very much that he has an allergy to beef...I think it was just a
matter of starting out with beef and organs, no bone, and it just got out of
control.

I think I would switch to chicken right now as Kathy suggested. No cooking
and NO rice!! :)) Seriously, cooked foods and grains are far harder to
digest than raw. Oh, and no pumpkin or yogurt. Just start over with the
chicken, go slow and add in appropriate foods once his digestive system has
adapted. You may even want to drop the amount also as too much food can
cause loose stools. Feed smaller more frequent meals until you get this
under control.

You will find once you get into this, feeding whole parts is not going to be
all that difficult.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "kasiarukszto" <kasiarukszto@yahoo.com>

are you saying i should switch to chicken right now? should i cook it for
now? what about
adding mushy rice to the chicken till he gets back to normal (my vet used to
tell me to do
that when my previous dog would get sick).

Messages in this topic (11)
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7b. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:56 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kasiarukszto" <kasiarukszto@...>
wrote:
> yes, i was using pre-made frozen beef patties (meat and organs), and
ground beef/ground
> bone mix. no vegetables in either. i was feeding him 6% of his
current weight since he's a
> big 4 month old frenchie and i'm pretty sure he'll exceed the ideal
adult weight (i thought
> either mesurement was good).

You need to stop feeding the patties and buy some real food, aka
chicken breasts. Next, you need to recalculate the amount that you
are feeding. If you believe your dog is going to weigh, perhaps,
10lbs over breed standard, then feed 2% of that weight, not 6% of what
breed standard should be. You are much better off to feed a little
too little at the start than too much. You can always increase the
amount of food in a week or so if you see the need.
>
> are you saying i should switch to chicken right now? should i cook
it for now? what about
> adding mushy rice to the chicken till he gets back to normal (my vet
used to tell me to do
> that when my previous dog would get sick).

Yes, that's what i think you should do. Go back to square one and
start off the raw diet the way it is generally recommended to on this
list. No, you shouldn't cook the chicken, and no, you shouldn't feed
rice to your dog. I am sure your vet's intentions were good, but
feeding carbs to a dog is not a good idea as a whole or as a fix.

>
> with regards to the pre-ground patties, besides the lack of teeth
cleaning function, what
> are other disadvantages of pre-made (no vegetables or fillers) raw
patties? i chose this
> type of raw food because of the convenience.

Pet food companies are pet food companies. They are in it for the
$$$. Pre-made patty companies use inferior ingredients, tend to be
too heavy in the bone content because its cheaper to make if you use a
lot of bone, and ground anything is not better for digestion because
dog's come with teeth and in order for everything to work according to
nature's plan, they need to use those teeth to rip the food into hunks
that will fit down their throat so the stomach acids can do their job
and break down the food. Ground of any kind robs not only the teeth,
but confuses digestion and triggers inappropriate body responses.

> one last thought - could it be beef? i just checked the ingredients
in orijen for puppies,
> which is what mooi was on before the switch, and it wasn't in the
list of ingredients. so
> this would be the first time he's had beef. could it be allergy? how
can i know for sure?

I seriously doubt, though i can't promise, that it's an allergic
reaction. Right now, though, i don't think you need to know that for
sure. What you need to do, for sure, is to get your puppy on some
real food. You aren't going to cook the chicken or any raw meat. Raw
is really simple to feed. Buy the meat, cut into appropriate serving
amount sizes, hand to the dog. That's it. A few weeks from now,
you'll occasionally feed some organs. That's all there is too it.
Remember, chicken breasts, remove the skin and fat for now and feed 2%
of your dog's estimated ideal adult weight in several small meals
until things start shaping up. Honestly, that's the best thing i can
tell you. KathyM

Messages in this topic (11)
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7c. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:15 pm ((PST))

Could be detox too. A switch to wholesome foods will in the first few weeks get rid of all these toxins, through smelly skin, bad breath, even vomiting and the like. Then bam, wonder dog.
Mallory

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

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Messages in this topic (11)
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7d. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
Posted by: "kasiarukszto" kasiarukszto@yahoo.com kasiarukszto
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:02 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Mallory Kwiatkowski <m_k_jesusfreak3@...> wrote:
>
> Could be detox too.

thanks, everyone, for your responses. mooi seems pretty well now, playing and his usual
active 4 month old self. no bowel movement as yet, he had a solid stool late this afternoon,
even though he had no food for the day yet (I've been terrified to feed him anything). so i'll
start over and hope things will improve.

thanks again, kasia

Messages in this topic (11)
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8a. Tips on finicky eater?
Posted by: "jenna" jennawing@charter.net jennawing
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:18 pm ((PST))

Serious newbie here- just starting out on raw feeding. We are about
a week into this and have run into a couple problems already.

We have 4 dogs- Sirius- 65lb, 8yo shepherd mix (with expensive skin
issues that were the real inspiration for an overall diet change),
Hogan- 28lb 2yo rat terrier (a show dog that needs to build bulk and
muscle), Pagan- 12lb 2yo rat terrier (a plethorea of allergies of
her own), and Natalie- 95lb 3yo ridgeback mix (who is just a little
overweight, despite her love/hate relationship with food). As you
can see, we have plenty of incentive to make this raw diet thing
work for everyone.

Sirius is loving it, but his teeth are not the best (product of a
prolonged skin allergy and chewing). His gums are taking a beating
on this. Will this get better? Doesn't seem to deter him any, but I
can imagine the vet is going to crawl me on it if it doesn't get
better before his next visit.

Biggest problem, though, is Natalie will not eat. She has always
been a binge and fast eater- is that the correct term? Barely
nibbles for days then will eat a bowl full? Anyway, she turns the
bowl over, hides the food, tries to covered it with floor tile,
jumps away if she steps on it by accident. She's terrified of it.
It's dead. It needs to be buried. Get it away from her.

We can cut off tiny pieces of meat (as long as she doesn't see where
it came from) and she will eventually take them if you act like it's
a big game- which is tiring, as you can imagine. The meat as a
whole, though, she jumps back and barks at you. You leave the food
and try to act like it's no big deal, she lays down and sighs like
we are all stupid and she still won't go near it.

We started off feeding the boys seperated out- as we wanted to be
sure the two gulpers would feel at leisure to chew. We have been
feeding the girls in the same room. Little as she may be, Pagan is a
serious chow hound and quite competitive, territorial, and
possessive. We thought feeding the girls together would encourage
Natalie to be more interested. She isn't. Nat is
uncharachteristically letting Pagan snatch all the food and build a
pile. If it had been a ball, Natalie would have slapped Pagan right
out of the way and took what she considered hers, but not the new
food. Nope. More flopping over, more sighs, more dancing eyebrows of
hate and disgust. We suck. She wants a new family. You get the idea.

So, any tips on how to encourage her to eat would be great. I
thought about just not feeding her until she got hungry. She does it
to herself, after all. Her energy level drops when she doesn't eat,
though, and I worry that she will be a lot more stubborn than me. I
keep telling myself she is a dog and not to feel bad that she is so
put out by this and she will give in eventually, but after several
days of nothing more than tidbits we cajoled her into, I know there
must be something to make her act normal. Please say there is.

And while I am writing, any tips on feeding raw to cats- sites you
trust, etc. ? Changing everyone over at once was too big a bite for
us (pardon the pun) but the cats are next. I am still reading, but
there is so much conflicting information I am feeling overwhelmed.
Among our 5 kitties, we have dealt with chronic uti, thyroid, weight
loss, weight gain, hair loss, and more, so there is a serious need
for change all around. I am feeling out places to get whole fish.
All I can think about is having to go catch them myself and getting
covered in fire ants.

All our dogs and cats are speutered except Hogan, and no health
issues in the dogs other than the skin allergies, if that makes any
difference to the advice given. Feel free to ask anything
pertinent. :D

If this works as well as it is supposed to, do you think the vet
will miss us? :P I think he should buy me a bigger freezer.

Thanks in advance,
jenna

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. Re: Tips on finicky eater?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:49 pm ((PST))

Hi Jenna,

What exactly are you feeding that is causing gum damage?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "jenna" <jennawing@charter.net>

Messages in this topic (3)
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8c. Re: Tips on finicky eater?
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:02 pm ((PST))

My ten year old special needs dog did not want the raw meat at first
either. I got great tips from the senoir feeding group. Things like
searing the boneless to imitate the cooked flavor and trying seasonings
like cheese and garlic. I was willing to do whatever it took to get
over the hump and it worked. The coaxing only lasted a couple of
months, then he started acting like a normal wild dog and takes it out
in the yard, protects it, and then eats it. Cutting up boneless meats
and trying things to enhance the flavor will help with the switch. I
think there is an addiction they have to get over at first. It is like
trying to get a five year old child to eat plain brwon rice compared to
Mc Something cheeseburgers and fries. I can be hard but it is well
worth it in the end!
Cheryl

Messages in this topic (3)
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9. Re: Alabama Rot...
Posted by: "Anntiga@aol.com" Anntiga@aol.com anntiga
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:19 pm ((PST))

I just had to look this up. What I could find is that it had to do with
Greyhounds.

Here is what is says it is: Alabama Rot (Idiopathic cutaneous and renal
glomerular disease) has been reported only in greyhounds.

Here is what I found on the following site:

_http://www.adopt-a-greyhound.org/advice/medwisdm.html_

(http://www.adopt-a-greyhound.org/advice/medwisdm.html)

Researchers at Kansas State University have done a study to try and
determine the cause of Alabama Rot. After eliminating several possibilities, they
took healthy dogs and fed them 4D Meat in an attempt to duplicate the symptoms
of Alabama Rot. The study concluded that the Bacteria E. coli, which is found
in 4D Meat is the cause of Alabama Rot. 4D (meaning Dead, Dying, Diseased or
Disabled) meat can come from cattle , sheep, poultry, goats, horses ,
roadkill or even bodies of cats and dogs euthanized at animal shelters. 4D meat is
apparently widely fed to racing greyhounds because it is high in protein and
it is cheap (approx. 40 cents per pound) .

Another site states that the above is NOT true. Here is the link:
_http://www.gra-america.org/the_sport/articles/a_myths.html_

(http://www.gra-america.org/the_sport/articles/a_myths.html)

I would love to hear the from the many knowledgeable people on this list.

Of course, I will NEVER stop feeding prey model raw. I am just curious.

thanks,
Ann Gaskell
Norman (PWD, prey model raw fed since 12 weeks old; now 20 months old)
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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10.1. Question
Posted by: "jetblst2002" bosboy101@mac.com jetblst2002
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:26 pm ((PST))

Hello Everyone,

I use to do a raw diet way back in 2000, during my time doing it I
learner that you should to add some veggies to what ever you were
doing. I'm again thinking of doing a raw diet again with a Border
Collie puppy that I'm getting. So I have been reading web site after
web site today to make sure I do everything right. The one thing they
all talk about is the ratio that you use, none of them talk about what
to really feed a puppy. One did say you wanted to between 10-40% of
there weight, but that way for a really young puppy and they did not
say what really young is.
So I guess my question is what would you feed a 8 week old border and
how do you know when to start lowering the amount of food intake.
Is it also fine to just feed meat, bone and organs or do I need to add
something to the mix?

Thanks for your advise

Travis

Messages in this topic (172)
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10.2. Re: Question
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:38 pm ((PST))

Travis,

Here are a few past messages about puppy feeding. Search the
archives...this comes up frequently.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135757
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135847
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/137170
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/145223

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "jetblst2002" <bosboy101@mac.com>
So I guess my question is what would you feed a 8 week old border and
how do you know when to start lowering the amount of food intake.
Is it also fine to just feed meat, bone and organs or do I need to add
something to the mix?

Messages in this topic (172)
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11a. Re: Deer Meat and Chronic Wasting Disease
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:02 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "agrobes4" <agrobes4@...> wrote:
>
I was wondering if anyone has
> had any difficulty w/ the Chronic Wasting Disease that has been
> prevalent in deer around the country?

Hi Aaron,
Check out this post from Casey.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141729

> Also, I was wondering what a usual dosage of fish oil would be for a
> dog the size of a mastiff? Right now I'm using 1,000 mg/week. Does
> that sound right?

The usual dose is 1000mg per 20lbs of dog. I feed salmon oil about 4
times a week. KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
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11b. Re: Deer Meat and Chronic Wasting Disease
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:32 pm ((PST))

"agrobes4" <agrobes4@...> wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has
> had any difficulty w/ the Chronic Wasting Disease that has been
> prevalent in deer around the country? Any opinions?
*****
CWD does not appear to affect wolves or dogs, but it is an issue for
cats. (I feed my cats deer meat.) You do not have to worry about
CWD.

> Also, I was wondering what a usual dosage of fish oil would be for
a
> dog the size of a mastiff? Right now I'm using 1,000 mg/week. Does
> that sound right?
*****
While the dosage depends not only on the size of dog but also the
purpose, 1000mg a week is not hardly enough for anything.

A recommended maintenance dose is one 1000mg capsule per 30 pounds of
dog, daily. A recommended therapeutic dose can be as much as one
1000mg capsule per 10 pounds of dog, daily.

Of course, the dosage would also depend on how much grassfed
meat/high Omega 3 fish the dog is getting on a regular basis. A diet
fully grassfed would not need a maintenance dose.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: excessive shedding
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:26 pm ((PST))

Hi, Shefy!
Nope! The raw bones are quite soft. Even the fins, which can
seem quite poky are crunched right up and are digested just fine. Bea starts
at the head after licking the fish all over, and it goes down nicely.

Buy a few small smelt or sardines and try feeding one with a meatymeat meal
once or twice a week. I bet Snowy will love them, and beg for more!

Feeding whole fish is a great way to get whole prey into a dog's diet. My
Bea eats whole mackerel, one of which would probably be 3-4 meals for a dog
Snowy's size, and she eats small fish like sardines frozen into a lump of
5-7 together.
TC
Giselle

On Nov 18, 2007 2:25 PM, shefy gupta <shefy7@yahoo.com> wrote:

> do the dogs eat the fish bones? aren't they too small/hard/pointy to
> feed?
>
> shefy and snowy
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________

12b. Re: excessive shedding
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:47 pm ((PST))

Hello Giselle!

> Thank you again for taking the time to respond it really helps...I
> apologize for not
> responding sooner had a problem with my internet provider...anyhow I will
> follow your
> suggestions and let you know my progress...
>

**** Hi, Roberta! - NP, its great to hear from you. ****

I did have one more question, is it necessary to give a different meat every
day? For

> example if I get pork can I feed it to her over the course of a week and
> then move onto
> beef or chicken etc? Or is that not recommended?
>

> **** No, its not necessary, once you've introduced several different
> proteins and organs. The *feed one protein a week, then move on to another*
> plan is for newbies and their dogs, so that the newbies can get the hang of
> raw feeding, and the dogs can get acclimated to the raw with as little
> digestive upset as possible. A lot of people who buy in bulk, or through a
> co-op, or get given stuff from hunters or through FreeCycle have freezers
> full of one or two kinds of protein, its easier & cheaper for them to feed
> through what's in there, then fill up with a different one for variety when
> that supply is exhausted, than buy smaller, but more expensive batches of
> different proteins. And seasonal availability affects what some of us can
> obtain and feed. Those of us who shop for variety in smaller batches often
> end up with packed freezers, anyway, so we feed what comes to hand, (or what
> falls out when we open the door! ^_^) and work our way through to the back
> of the freezer. "Balance Over Time" is a good motto to remember - feed what
> you can get, but always strive for protein and organ variety over weeks or
> months. Pork is often fattier than beef or chicken, depending on the cut, so
> you might want to trim some of the visible fat at first when introducing it.
> ****
>
She is still shedding, her topcoat (the long hairs so I will definitely
> introduce more protein in her diet)
>

> **** Good idea! Are you planning to introduce Salmon or Fish Body oil?
> ****
>
I can't thank you enough for taking the time to respond to my questions!
> Thank you! Thank
> you!
>
> Roberta
>

> **** TC Giselle ****
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
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13a. Re: turkey for little JRT?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:14 pm ((PST))

"Sandrea Kornblum" <misssweetpeas@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to do something like this but am wondering how you manage
> it if you have more than one dog. I have three dogs who fight
viciously
> over food, so they are all fed separately.
*****
My dogs don't fight viciously over food but they don't get along.
Mostly what I do is feed each dog meals large enough to sustain it for
two or three days; that way they each can pig out and there's no
complaining.

There is a lotta wiggle room between group feeding and feeding single
meal amounts.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12290

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
From: folkdancer1
1b. Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
From: Kari Carlisle
1c. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
From: cris_milam

2a. Big Meat?
From: Debi C
2b. Re: Big Meat?
From: Mallory Kwiatkowski
2c. Re: Big Meat?
From: costrowski75
2d. Re: Big Meat?
From: katkellm

3a. Re: where do I start?
From: dholloway26

4a. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
From: ncrnrgrl
4b. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
From: kasiarukszto
4c. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
From: borodeauxs
4d. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
From: kasiarukszto
4e. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
From: katkellm
4f. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
From: kasiarukszto

5a. Re: excessive shedding
From: maxieii
5b. Re: excessive shedding
From: shefy gupta

6a. Re: turkey for little JRT?
From: Sandrea Kornblum
6b. Re: turkey for little JRT?
From: shefy gupta
6c. Re: turkey for little JRT?
From: katkellm

7a. Deer Meat and Chronic Wasting Disease
From: agrobes4
7b. Re: Deer Meat and Chronic Wasting Disease
From: carnesbill

8a. BEEF BONE confusion
From: Lynette
8b. Re: BEEF BONE confusion
From: katkellm

9a. File - Admin-Trim it, Sign it, and Sig lines-PLEASE READ!!!
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com

10.1. File - Other related lists
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
Posted by: "folkdancer1" folkdancer1@yahoo.com folkdancer1
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:54 am ((PST))

Hi Michelle,

I have two rescued greyhounds that I've been rawfeeding for 1 and 1/2
years. It's the best thing that you can do for your two!!!

One of my greys is a 60lb female. The other is an 82lb male.

How they do love their raw food. And it's so much fun watching them
dig in.

Just type any questions that you may have into the search engine and
you'll have plenty of suggestions.

Enjoy!

Ellen

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle Urbano" <chelleu@...>
wrote:
>
> MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!
>
>
>
> I have two rescued greyhounds that I would like to start feeding
raw.
> Was just wondering if there are any other owners that have gone to
> this diet and how their dogs have done.
> Thanks
>

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
Posted by: "Kari Carlisle" kari@houndgroup.com karicarlisle
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:59 pm ((PST))

When I first got my two greyhounds, Jack and Samantha, last year, I fed them kibble with mix-ins like milk and cheese. They were less than enthusiastic, and I had a hard time getting them to eat it. Since I started them on RMB this May, they leap for joy every time I feed them. They had an adjustment period with some loose stools and bile and bone bits vomit, but they are doing great on it now. Their coats are healthy, they have good energy, and their stools are so easy to pick up (if I bother, since they disintegrate within a couple of days). Go for it!

Kari

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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1c. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
Posted by: "cris_milam" cmilam@comcast.net cris_milam
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:48 pm ((PST))

Michelle,
Just another grey owner chiming in to say that raw feeding is the best
thing that ever happened to us with Duncan.

Duncan came to us very underweight, very picky about what he would eat,
and with loose stools (the bane of grey owners' existence!). Changed
to raw and he started loving his meals -- eating his meals would have
been change enough! His poop firmed up and he gained weight. The
other side effects that were a pleasant surprise were that his breath
has no odor and he rarely farts. For those of us with greys whose gas
can peel paint off walls, this is life changing. Imagine actually
being able to watch a TV show without the "Ewwww, gross!" comments!

I can't tell you about other dogs, but it seems greys generally move to
raw with little or no trouble. You won't believe how wonderful it is
to feed your grey raw.

Cris and Duncan ("Mom, tell her that kibble is yucky. Real dogs eat
real food!")

Messages in this topic (8)
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2a. Big Meat?
Posted by: "Debi C" dcole6@satx.rr.com scarlet_debi
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:33 am ((PST))

This is probably a dumb question.

I have two small JRTs. (14 lbs apiece) Someone used the term 'big
meat'. Is that a size thing like a chicken vrs turkey. A pig vrs a
cow or is that the size of the serving?

JRTs being small could in the wild only kill things like birds,
rabbits, etc as opposed to cows or most deer. My female was feral
when caught in a humane trap in a chicken coop before being turned
into the local SPCA. She had been raiding the hen house for eggs and
she had also taken a laying hen or two. Also, they thought that
she'd killed one or two of their cats. The farmers had told the SPCA
ladies that they thought they would catch a racoon. Needless to say,
the girl was very happy to get back to a raw meat diet when she came
to live with us and her new brother Abbott (the city kid who only had
been fed bad kibble until Russell Rescue got him and had to learn to
eat chicken quarters.)

But I digress. So if I can get a good price on brisket or even
(shudder) a pigs head, that would be a good thing to leave out for
them for a few days in the cooler weather? As it is I'll leave two
chicken quarters (or something about that size) out when I go to work
and they can eat them as they want. Sometimes it takes them a while
to finsh the bigger pieces. This is good right?

Debi C
Converse TX

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Big Meat?
Posted by: "Mallory Kwiatkowski" m_k_jesusfreak3@yahoo.com m_k_jesusfreak3
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:33 am ((PST))

I think so, I have given my dogs a whole deer leg, and they all joined in and ate. Something that's that big, I just let them eat their fill, and then cut the rest of the meat off the bone and freeze it, then I hack the leg bone into a few pieces, and they have something to chew on in their crates.
The only bad thing about big meats is where to eat it. I don't have a fenced in yard, so eating outside is out, unless I tie them out, which I could. I have to set it down on my linoleum floor, and baby gate them in that room, because they would eat it on my couch and bed otherwise...
Mallory

---------------------------------
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: Big Meat?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:29 am ((PST))

"Debi C" <dcole6@...> wrote:

> I have two small JRTs. (14 lbs apiece) Someone used the term 'big
> meat'. Is that a size thing like a chicken vrs turkey. A pig vrs
a
> cow or is that the size of the serving?
*****
The food is big in relation to the dog doing the eating. The food is
big in relation to what you might otherwise feed if you were feeding
two meals of balanced size a day.

> > JRTs being small could in the wild only kill things like birds,
> rabbits, etc as opposed to cows or most deer.
*****
Then offer whole birds and rabbits.

The promise of feeding big is not that a small dog will be able to
eat an entire turkey in one setting, or even should. What Big Food
offers is a chance for a small dog to really "get into" his food
(see "dogs in elk" for a literal interpretation); to have to wrestle
with it, to sink his teeth into it right down to his gumline; to use
all his muscles to feed himself. If the small dog never sees
anything larger than a whole small chicken or rabbit, that's cool.
Both are still bigger and more engrossing than wings, legs, thighs,
necks or backs. And that's what matters.

So if I can get a good price on brisket or even
> (shudder) a pigs head, that would be a good thing to leave out for
> them for a few days in the cooler weather?
*****
You can give it a whirl, sure. Cooler weather would be the right
time for such an adventure. If your dogs get along well together in
the presence of food, great. If they are not willing to share, you
might not want to leave food lying about. I either pack it into the
fridge for later or rotate my dogs one by one on the feast. That
works best for my dogs.

As it is I'll leave two
> chicken quarters (or something about that size) out when I go to
work
> and they can eat them as they want.
*****
Yes, this is feeding Big Food but on a less grand scale. You are in
fact already doing it.

I do not allow my dogs to eat unsupervised, especially body parts
with bones in them. People do this though and are quite satisfied
with the results, so--as with many things in the raw feeding world--
you need to make choices you can live with.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

2d. Re: Big Meat?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:59 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> I do not allow my dogs to eat unsupervised, especially body parts
> with bones in them. People do this though and are quite satisfied
> with the results, so--as with many things in the raw feeding world--
> you need to make choices you can live with.

Hi Debi,
If feeding a single meal or multiple smaller pieces or the initial
presentation of a big meal, i think Chris is spot on. I would never
leave my dogs alone. If i feed something as huge as a cow head,
however, i don't pay much attention to them when they eat AFTER the
first day's initial gorge chowing feast takes place. After the first
big gorge, the dogs tend to nibble periodically throughout the
remainder of the time the head sits around. Then i feel my job becomes
keeping an eye on how much is left of whatever is sitting out there
and when, if ever, do i need to remove it. This is, also as Chris
said, a do what works for you thing. KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: where do I start?
Posted by: "dholloway26" dholloway26@cox.net dholloway26
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:44 am ((PST))

Kathy! thank you so much!! feel free to ramble on anytime!! I
appreicate the information and am reading and since you are all
feeding RAW, who knows better than you!!

Any words of wisdom! keep em coming my way!!
thanks again,
smiles and blessings
debi
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dholloway26" <dholloway26@>
wrote:
> > How do you decide how much to feed?
> >> other words of wisdom?
>
> Hi Debi,
> You need to feed 2-3% of the dog's ideal adult weight per day. I
> would start closer to 2% and then adjust the amount later on if you
> see the dog needs a little more food. I would stick with chicken
for
> one week. Since you have largish dogs, you could buy whole chickens
> and cut into serving size hunks for your crew. After a week if all
is
> going good, you can pick another protein to feed. I fed turkey
> second. Feed for a week and if all is smooth, pick another
> meat...There are a couple of opinions on when to introduce organ
> meats. Me personally, at the end of the first week, i fed a little
> chicken liver. I felt that way i could say i fed through the whole
> critter. Some people recommend no organs for several weeks. I
guess
> i would gauge this by how my dog was doing. My dogs never had loose
> stools, so it worked ok for me. If you have some any adjustment
> difficulties, i would wait the couple of weeks. I think that you
> should know that loose stools are not the same as diarrhea.
Diarrhea
> is brought on by bacteria...or sickness. Loose stools, though messy
> or disruptive to sleep because they always seem to occur during the
> middle of the night, do not mean your dog is sick. They often
result
> from a few newbie mistakes: too much food: too much new food too
> fast: introducing organs too soon or too much: too much fat.
Variety
> of parts from a variety of critters is the real recipe for feeding.
> It helps to remember that 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, and 5% other
> organs constitute the make up of the prey animal that wolves would
> eat, so that should serve as a loose guide in judging what you
feed.
> Not every meal has to be prey animal perfect. Balance is achieved
> over time. Don't stress, drink coffee while you watch your dogs eat
> and celebrate the moments of your life. Raw feeding has been as
much
> fun for me as it has been for my dogs. Wow, i really rambled. HTH,
> KathyM
>

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
Posted by: "ncrnrgrl" jcraver1@nc.rr.com ncrnrgrl
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:44 am ((PST))

Kasia,
I'll defer to the more experienced people on the board, but this
sounds like too much too soon, particularly of organ meat. Organs
should only be feed occaisonally, and it's important that you start
them very slowly. Additionally, pumpkin causes loose stools, not sure
why you jumped to that....it's often used as a remedy for
constipation.

I think the advice that will follow is to pick one protein source and
feed just that for a few weeks, and not so much of everything at once.
good luck, you came to the right board for advice.

Jen C>

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kasiarukszto" <kasiarukszto@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> this is my first post. My french bulldog puppy has been on pre-made
raw food for a week
> and is not doing well. here's what happened. i started him on beef
and organ mix (no
> bone). i planned on using just beef for the first few weeks to make
sure he tolerates well.
> the first 3 days were great - loved the food, one normal poop a
day, no problems. on 4th
> day, his poop was loose so i thought i need to add some bone to his
diet and bought a
> ground beef/ground bone mix. but because it had to thaw out he
still had two meals of
> meat/organ, and only meat/bone at night. i also gave him some
yogurt and a bit of
> pumpkin.the next morning his poop was a little loose but better. so
i fed him the meat/
> bone mix for the whole day with some pumpkin in two of the meals.
then late last night
> (1AM) he had diarrhea and has been throwing up bile.
>
> i haven't given him anything to eat today, but am at a loss for
what to do next. is this a
> sign he can't eat beef? was it too rich to start with? what should
i give him to eat next (i
> assume i should fast him, right?)?
>
> i will take him to the vet of course to make sure he's otherwise
fine, but i don't want to
> give up on raw feeding, and am not sure that my vet will have much
advice there (he's not
> against, just not his area of expertise). i should say that unitl
today (when the bile throw
> up started), he's been feeling fine (active, drinking water,
alert), so i don't think he's got a
> virus.
>
> thanks for any advice (and constructive criticism:),
>
> kasia
>

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
Posted by: "kasiarukszto" kasiarukszto@yahoo.com kasiarukszto
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:02 am ((PST))

thanks for the response, that's been my guess as well, although the meat/organ mix had only
10% of organ, which i thought is the usual amount (according to some, on the low end of the
recommended scale). should i leave out organ meats altogether for now? should i stay on
beef, or switch to another protein?

Additionally, pumpkin causes loose stools, not sure
> why you jumped to that....it's often used as a remedy for
> constipation.

i've read in many sources that pumpkin can be used for both diarrhea and constipation,
depending on the amount. 1 spoon for diarrhea, 2-3 for constipation.

as an update, mooi hasn't had a bile throw up for over 2 hours, and is beginning to look
more like himself - walking around, and looking for food:) but i'm not giving him anything
for now.

kasia

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
Posted by: "borodeauxs" Borodeauxs@googlemail.com borodeauxs
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:59 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kasiarukszto" <kasiarukszto@...>
wrote:
>
> thanks for the response, that's been my guess as well, although
the meat/organ mix had only
> 10% of organ, which i thought is the usual amount (according to
some, on the low end of the
> recommended scale). should i leave out organ meats altogether for
now? should i stay on
> beef, or switch to another protein?
>
>
> Additionally, pumpkin causes loose stools, not sure
> > why you jumped to that....it's often used as a remedy for
> > constipation.
>
> i've read in many sources that pumpkin can be used for both
diarrhea and constipation,
> depending on the amount. 1 spoon for diarrhea, 2-3 for
constipation.
>
>
> as an update, mooi hasn't had a bile throw up for over 2 hours,
and is beginning to look
> more like himself - walking around, and looking for food:) but i'm
not giving him anything
> for now.
>
> kasia

>
Hi would stick with one protien till the little bowls and tummy get
use to this new rich source first I personally would cut back on
organs in every meal,if the pup is still on her 4 meals aday the
organs will add up over the day/days,..I agree that 10% organs
should make up the overall diet,..I try and play it simple regarding
this and work it out like so(10% from 100% is 1 feed out of 10)so 4
meals aday is 10 meals in 2 1/2 days,(which 1 should be organ) so
every 3rd day I will add organs to the diet,..if stools are soft
then hold back a extra day,..this works for my dogs and stools are
acceptable,..stools will be your guide and after a while you will be
able to judge your dogs needs from the waste,..hope your little baby
is doing good now Best Wishes *& Thoughts Stephen/

www.Borodeauxs.com

Messages in this topic (7)
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4d. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
Posted by: "kasiarukszto" kasiarukszto@yahoo.com kasiarukszto
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:41 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "borodeauxs" <Borodeauxs@...> wrote:
>
>.I agree that 10% organs
> should make up the overall diet,..I try and play it simple regarding
> this and work it out like so(10% from 100% is 1 feed out of 10)so 4
> meals aday is 10 meals in 2 1/2 days,(which 1 should be organ) so
> every 3rd day I will add organs to the diet,..Stephen/

oh okay, so no organs in every meal, just every few days, i get it. will try that for sure. but
what should i do in the meantime? he hasn't eaten yet, should i feed him today at all? should i
just go with beef and bone mix, or should i try something else to help his upset stomach/
bowels? he hasn't pooped since middle of last night, and probably won't till he gets some
food, so i'm not sure how to judge if he can handle any food...

kasia

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4e. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:59 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kasiarukszto" <kasiarukszto@...>
wrote:
> but
> what should i do in the meantime? he hasn't eaten yet, should i feed
him today at all? should i
> just go with beef and bone mix, ...

Hi Kasia,
If i am reading you correctly, this will seem like a where did that
come from post if i'm not, you are feeding some type of ground premade
frozen patties.? If so, what you need to do is stop feeding them-
period. They are not the raw food diet that you need to be feeding.
Go to the store and buy some bone in chicken breasts, remove the skin
and fat--since you are recovering from the effects of a bad start- and
feed to your dog. Make sure you don't feed more than 2% of your dog's
ideal adult weight per day. Since your dog has some issues, i would
feed 2 small meals the first day and then evaluate where your dog is
at. HTH, KathyM

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

4f. Re: puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
Posted by: "kasiarukszto" kasiarukszto@yahoo.com kasiarukszto
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:23 pm ((PST))

you are feeding some type of ground premade
> frozen patties.? If so, what you need to do is stop feeding them-
> period. They are not the raw food diet that you need to be feeding.
> Go to the store and buy some bone in chicken breasts, remove the skin
> and fat--since you are recovering from the effects of a bad start- and
> feed to your dog. Make sure you don't feed more than 2% of your dog's
> ideal adult weight per day. Since your dog has some issues, i would
> feed 2 small meals the first day and then evaluate where your dog is
> at. HTH, KathyM

yes, i was using pre-made frozen beef patties (meat and organs), and ground beef/ground
bone mix. no vegetables in either. i was feeding him 6% of his current weight since he's a
big 4 month old frenchie and i'm pretty sure he'll exceed the ideal adult weight (i thought
either mesurement was good).

are you saying i should switch to chicken right now? should i cook it for now? what about
adding mushy rice to the chicken till he gets back to normal (my vet used to tell me to do
that when my previous dog would get sick).

with regards to the pre-ground patties, besides the lack of teeth cleaning function, what
are other disadvantages of pre-made (no vegetables or fillers) raw patties? i chose this
type of raw food because of the convenience. i rarely have time to shop and cook for
myself. i'm not being dismissive of the benefits of using whole animal parts etc, i really
think this is the realistic way i could feed my dog raw.

one last thought - could it be beef? i just checked the ingredients in orijen for puppies,
which is what mooi was on before the switch, and it wasn't in the list of ingredients. so
this would be the first time he's had beef. could it be allergy? how can i know for sure?

thanks for all your help, just knowing someone is out there trying to help me get my pup
back to health is very comforting.

kasia
>

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: excessive shedding
Posted by: "maxieii" maxieii@yahoo.com maxieii
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:02 am ((PST))

Hello Giselle!
thank you again for taking the time to respond it really helps...i apologize for not
responding sooner had a problem with my internet provider...anyhow i will follow your
suggestions and let you know my progress...

I did have one more question, is it necessary to give a different meat every day? For
example if I get pork can i feed it to her over the coarse of a week and then move onto
beef or chicken etc? Or is that not recommended?

She is still shedding, her topcoat (the long hairs so I will definately introduce more protein
in her diet)

i can't thank you enough for taking the time to respond to my questions! thank you! thank
you!

Roberta

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> **** Hi, Roberta! ****
> Hi Giselle!
>
> > Thank you for you reply, over a period of a week I try to give her chicken
> > (whole Cornish hens), lamb,(neck bones with meat) pork, (shoulder and neck
> > bones with meat) and beef, (neck bones) once a week some fish (salmon head
> > which is full of meat and bones,
> > I've tried the whole fish like mackerel she doesn't eat it so I also give
> > her fish oil) the lamb and beef is usually neck bones with lots of meat on
> > it, I also occasionally give her ground beef instead of the beef neck bones
> > (depends on what I find) I give her a small piece of liver or kidney
> > everyday with her meat and bones. (I bought the liver and the kidney cut it
> > up and froze it into portions) I also have lamb heart and sometimes I feed
> > that as the protein ( I was told it is not considered an offal more like
> > protein?)
> >
>
>
> > **** Are the Cornish hens really cheap for you, why do you not use
> > 'regular' chicken? Cornish hens are smaller, the bones are softer, but
> > generally they are more expensive and are just young chickens, really.
> >
>
>
> > Neck bones, whether beef, lamb or pork, are pretty much too bony to feed
> > by themselves, that would be a great use for the ground beef you feed - I
> > feed ground beef thats so-cheap-you-can't-pass-it-up, but freeze a wad of it
> > onto a pork neck bone (whole) when I'm repackaging for storage after
> > shopping. Your girl would benefit from more meat in her diet, I think.
> >
>
>
> > Pork, in the form of shoulder roasts or fresh hams offer more meat, skin
> > and fat for boneless meat and edible bone. The liver and kidney sounds
> > great! Heart from any animal is great meatymeat, beef is usually very
> > reasonable, and can be fed as a boneless meal.
> >
>
>
> > Fish or Salmon oil is a great addition to the diet, but make sure there
> > are no plant oils or flavorings added.
> >
>
>
> >
> > Salmon heads are great, but again, by themselves a bit bony. Just because
> > your girl initially refused mackerel doesn't mean that she'll never eat it.
> > Try cutting it up in small chunks and tossing them to her one by one as a
> > 'treat' when you're getting the people dinner ready, dropping them as an
> > "Ooops, the dog can clean that up.', or just mix a few small bits up into
> > some ground beef for a meal. My girl likes her fish frozen. Here's some
> > other suggestions;
> >
> > *http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/130758

*
> >
> > *Message #130758*
> >
> > *http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/134336*
> >
>
>
> > On this list we support and promote a species appropriate raw whole prey
> > model diet, which is significantly different from some other well known
> > diets 'out there', in that the emphasis is on feeding either the whole
> > animal, or as much as we can obtain, over time - much more meat, much less
> > bone, larger animal parts, no, or little ground meats and as much variety in
> > protein and animal parts as possible. Here are some links to websites and
> > archived messages that will explain better;
> >
> > http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
> >
> > http://www.rawlearning.com/supplementmyths.html
> >
> > http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
> >
> > http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes
> >
> > http://rawfeddogs.net/FAQlist
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The Lis List, towards the end of this last link, can help you with finding
> > and sourcing protein variety;
> >
> > *http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *
> >
> > *post # 141374 *****
> >
>
>
>
>
> > When I first started she was eating about 1.75lbs a day then I saw her
> > getting too chunky so now its around 1.25lb sometimes a bit more and
> > sometimes closer to 1lb.
> >
>
>
> > **** Monitoring your dog's weight and tweaking the amounts you feed up or
> > down in response to the dog's needs are important, and a smart thing to do.
> > When you start to feed more meat, more fat and less bone, you may have to
> > adjust the amounts you feed regularly. ****
> >
>
>
> > Occasionally there is some leftover cooked meat and I have given that to
> > her, is that a bad thing?
> >
>
>
> > **** As long as its not a significant part of the diet, no worries. : )
> > ****
> >
>
>
> > I would like to order green tripe from Bravos as have been told it is
> > full of nutrients and very good for them.
> >
>
>
> >
> > **** Tripe is a good addition, it adds variety, and dogs love it! It is
> > stinky, tho' ; ) Mixing it in with refused meats can change a dog's mind!
> > ****
> >
> I am still a newbie and am scared at times that I am doing something wrong,
> > I do thank you for all your help.
> >
>
>
> **** NP, YQW! ^_^ Just post a lot with updates and ask lots of questions!
> ****
>
>
> > TC Giselle
> >
>
>
> Roberta
> > (Maxie II)
> >
> >
> > --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>, Giselle
> > <megan.giselle@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, Maxie, is it?
> > <snip>
> > > Just in case the raw diet you're feeding needs tweaking, what *exactly*
> > are
> > > you feeding? Plenty of meat and protein variety? Edible bone? Liver and
> > > other organs? How much? How often?
> > >
> > > TC
> > > Giselle
> > > with Bea in New Jersey
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (11)
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5b. Re: excessive shedding
Posted by: "shefy gupta" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:30 am ((PST))

do the dogs eat the fish bones? aren't they too small/hard/pointy to feed?

shefy and snowy

once a week some fish (salmon head
> > which is full of meat and bones,
> > I've tried the whole fish like mackerel she doesn't eat it so I also give
> > her fish oil)

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Messages in this topic (11)
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6a. Re: turkey for little JRT?
Posted by: "Sandrea Kornblum" misssweetpeas@verizon.net sandreaelyse
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:33 am ((PST))

I would like to do something like this but am wondering how you manage
it if you have more than one dog. I have three dogs who fight viciously
over food, so they are all fed separately. I only feed appropriate
single meal amounts because none is going to abandon food early knowing
the others would eat it.
Sandrea
Falmouth, ME

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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6b. Re: turkey for little JRT?
Posted by: "shefy gupta" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:30 am ((PST))

feed them separetly. or use the idea someone else said in this post to just take turns on one big meat.

i was hesitant to let snowy have a big piece of meat fearful of him eating it all but he just left it after a normal sized meal he's been used to!

have fun

shefy and snowy

Sandrea Kornblum <misssweetpeas@verizon.net> wrote:
I would like to do something like this but am wondering how you manage
it if you have more than one dog. I have three dogs who fight viciously
over food, so they are all fed separately. I only feed appropriate
single meal amounts because none is going to abandon food early knowing
the others would eat it.
Sandrea
Falmouth, ME

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (7)
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6c. Re: turkey for little JRT?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:59 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandrea Kornblum"
<misssweetpeas@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to do something like this but am wondering how you manage
> it if you have more than one dog.

Hi Sandrea,
If my dogs didn't eat politely when offered big meals, i wouldn't
leave the meat laying around. I have always fed outside and each dog
always eats in that same general area. When i feed big food, i place
one big item in each dog's usual place, and they just stay there and
eat until they decide to call it quits. After the first initial
feasting, mine don't mind leaving their food and usually only eat from
the food that is in "their" spot later on. It also seems like they
reach a point where they just believe that there is sooo much food
they don't mind playing musical foods. If i were you, however, i
would just put the big item down and let one dog eat until he quits.
Put that dog in, and offer to another .... You know, play musical dogs
and rotate. KathyM

Messages in this topic (7)
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7a. Deer Meat and Chronic Wasting Disease
Posted by: "agrobes4" agrobes4@yahoo.com agrobes4
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:33 am ((PST))

I'm new to raw feeding and have a 3 month old English Mastiff. As I
come from the midwest, I have some relatives that are willing to
supply me w/ about 90# of old deer meat. I was wondering if anyone has
had any difficulty w/ the Chronic Wasting Disease that has been
prevalent in deer around the country? Any opinions?

Also, I was wondering what a usual dosage of fish oil would be for a
dog the size of a mastiff? Right now I'm using 1,000 mg/week. Does
that sound right?

Thanks,

Aaron and Hank

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Deer Meat and Chronic Wasting Disease
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:59 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "agrobes4" <agrobes4@...> wrote:
>
> I was wondering if anyone has
> had any difficulty w/ the Chronic Wasting Disease that has been
> prevalent in deer around the country? Any opinions?

Dogs don't catch CWD. If you are worried about it, don't feed the
brains or spinal chord.

> Also, I was wondering what a usual dosage of fish oil would be for
a
> dog the size of a mastiff? Right now I'm using 1,000 mg/week. Does
> that sound right?

I have never given fish oil so I can't be of help to you about it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. BEEF BONE confusion
Posted by: "Lynette" lraefried@sbcglobal.net cherrysmomma
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:41 am ((PST))

I have read conflicting messages about beef bones. Is it good or not
good to let your dog eat things like T-bones, rib bone, etc.?

About 4 days ago I gave,Cherry 42 lb pit mix,a T-Bone that I cut off
our steak before we cooked it; she ate it but the next morning she
threw up mostly bone pieces.

Lynette

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: BEEF BONE confusion
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:30 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Lynette" <lraefried@...> wrote:
>
> I have read conflicting messages about beef bones. Is it good or not
> good to let your dog eat things like T-bones, rib bone, etc.?

Hi Lynette,
The trouble with beef bones is that they tend to be too dense for a
dog to eat. Most beef bones are not edible. So while i would feed a
slab of beef rib bones all connected together, i would remove the bone
once the meat and such was gone because they then become bare naked
bones that can wreck a dog's teeth or at least wear them down. Beef
ribs, for my dogs, are a chewy-keep em busy-fun food, but i wouldn't
call them a meal. I wouldn't purposely feed a bone from which i had
removed the meat no matter what type of bone it was-not that its
dangerous, i just don't see the point. Even if you left the meat on a
t-bone, the bone itself is cut into an unnatural shape by a saw. I
personally wouldn't, even if i could afford it, feed any steak bones
to my dogs because of the cut of the bone, not the bone itself. KathyM

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. File - Admin-Trim it, Sign it, and Sig lines-PLEASE READ!!!
Posted by: "rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com" rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:24 pm ((PST))

Hello all! (Don't delete without reading. Yes, there is a test later.)

Firstly, the raw feeding list was established in 1999. It has evolved under a couple of different names, but remains with primarily the same list moderation team.

This primary objective of the list is to provide a place where people who
feed raw food or who want to feed raw can discuss this and closely associated issues.

This is not a list to discuss which kibble or home cooking method is best.
There are other email lists that can provide you with that sort of forum.
The forum here is specifically to discuss appropriate raw diets.

*******A learning environment

We aim at all times to maintain a learning environment.
Every so often someone joins the list with a different agenda.
We work hard in the background to do everything we can to keep discussion on topic at all times, and those who don't find the environment comfortable (about 0.5%), we encourage to join other more suitable email lists.

The most important thing is you join a group you are comfortable with.
We acknowledge the vast differences that exist between people and their learning styles, and as you'll appreciate we can't make everyone happy.

Now for a few of the easy rules:

*******PLEASE TRIM YOUR POSTS

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This means when you are to sign your name at the bottom of every single mail you send to the list.

List members who continue to send unsigned posts after being warned risk having their mail deleted!!

**********CHANGE THE SUBJECT LINE WHEN THE SUBJECT CHANGES
This is a high volume list. Changing subject lines allows people to delete those messages that are topics they have no interest in. IF you change subject lines properly then when responding to a post of the same subject you should not have to include ANY of the email you are responding too since those reading the thread will be able to follow it anyway.

********NO MONSTER SIGNATURES PLEASE!
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*********NEW MEMBERS ARE MODERATED.
You will not get OFF of moderate until you prove you can trim your posts and change your subject lines. ALSO the moderators do not have time to trim your posts for you so if a post comes through moderate that is not trimmed it will be sent back to you to trim before it is sent to the list.

If you are currently off of moderate but stop changing subject lines or trimming posts for some reason you will be put back on moderate.

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List Moderators

Messages in this topic (12)
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10.1. File - Other related lists
Posted by: "rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com" rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:24 pm ((PST))

This list is part of a group of lists run by the same moderation team. Since several of the lists are quite large we often encourage that threads be taken to some of the smaller subject specific lists so you may want to join the lists that cover issues you are interested in now.

The lists are:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oldrawguys/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/catandkittenhealth/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learntoshow/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DogHealth/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dogmentor/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawbreeder/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawPup/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RMBLobby/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canineaggression/

And if you are stuck on a particular issue that you just can't seem to work out, try this list:

http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/rawissues

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BasicRaw/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalFerrets/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawVet/
For vets, vet techs and vet students only

There is also a list of lists where other raw feeding lists can be found. Many are breed specific, location specific or subject specific.

http://www.rawlearning.com

Thanks from the moderation team!

Messages in this topic (122)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12289

There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. turkey for little JRT?
From: rosey031801
1b. Re: turkey for little JRT?
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: turkey for little JRT?
From: v_rod_or
1d. Re: turkey for little JRT?
From: katkellm

2a. Re: What about yogurt? probiotic
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: Beef Shortribs? Did I buy the right thing?
From: cynthiashankman
3b. Re: Beef Shortribs? Did I buy the right thing?
From: Giselle

4a. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
From: heather pavelin
4b. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
From: valpascale

5a. got 2 deer
From: mandajenwalker
5b. Re: got 2 deer
From: katkellm

6a. food scales
From: kwrestad
6b. Re: food scales
From: Greta Hill
6c. Re: food scales
From: T Smith
6d. Re: food scales
From: Dee.1725

7. puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
From: kasiarukszto

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. turkey for little JRT?
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:55 pm ((PST))

I have a question. I got a free turkey from freecycle. I know it is ok
for my border collie but how about a jack russell terrier? Is there any
harm in giving too big of meat? I know usually biggger is better but I
am not sure about this.
Cheryl

Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: turkey for little JRT?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:08 pm ((PST))

"rosey031801" <rosey031801@...> wrote:
>
> I have a question. I got a free turkey from freecycle. I know it is
ok
> for my border collie but how about a jack russell terrier?
*****
I think it would be a great thing to put down a whole turkey and let a
JRT have at it. Hard to know how much it would eat; if you are
concerned about the dog not knowing when to quit, take the turkey up
when you think it's time.

Oh, and take pictures.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: turkey for little JRT?
Posted by: "v_rod_or" v_rod_or@yahoo.com v_rod_or
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:45 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
> take the turkey up when you think it's time.

Would you then refrigerate the gnawed-upon bird? (Yuck.) Or leave it
out in the yard for a couple of weeks? (It'd get pretty ripe and
maybe attract unwanted critters.)

I got a couple of big turkeys for Spike (he's a 48-pound Dal), but I
was planning to cut them up first. He'd probably enjoy a whole bird,
but how do you feed such a large bird without wasting it?

Rod and Spike
Eugene, OR

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: turkey for little JRT?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:29 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "v_rod_or" <v_rod_or@...> wrote:

> Would you then refrigerate the gnawed-upon bird? (Yuck.) Or leave it
> out in the yard for a couple of weeks? (It'd get pretty ripe and
> maybe attract unwanted critters.)

Hi Rod,
When i feed big food like whole turkey, heads, ... i just leave them
in the yard 24/7 until the thing is eaten. I live in Illinois and
only feed huge, leave in the yard stuff when its colder and no
flies-Oct through April. You could remove and refrigerate the turkey,
but its kind of cool if the big food lays around because your dogs get
to eat whenever they feel like it not when you decide to feed them.
I live in the country and have never had critter trouble in regards to
the meat laying around. Just what works for me, KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: What about yogurt? probiotic
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:02 pm ((PST))

"dholloway26" <dholloway26@...> wrote:
>
> How often is that fed? Is it daily basis?
> thanks again, newbie for now but hope to "get it soon"
*****
You'll get it soon. Really.

There is no feeding guideline for yogurt because there's little use for
yogurt in a species approprriate raw diet. You can feed it as a treat
however you choose but it doesn't pack enough good biota at feedable
levels to be a functional probiotic. If you were to feed enough yogurt
to make a difference, you'd be feeding way past bowel tolerance which
sort of defeats the whole purpose.

If your dog needs a probiotic, find a good human grade product. If
there's no reason to supplement with a probiotic, don't.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: Beef Shortribs? Did I buy the right thing?
Posted by: "cynthiashankman" ShankMa4@aol.com cynthiashankman
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:09 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
>
The ribs are about 2.5 inches wide by 9 inches
> > long.
> *****
> Yup, them sound like short ribs all right. They are separated,
right?
> How much meat does the package offer, compared to bone?
>
Hi Chris ~
No they are not separated; they are one long strip.
I wouldn't say they are particularly meaty. So probably not that
much meat compared to bone.

>
> >Can I give this to my dog? My dog weighs
> > 30 lbs. and is a very good chewer.
> *****
> I don't know if a 30lb dog can polish off a short rib. I don't
think
> my border collie can but she's am ambitious eater so I think I'll
pass
> on them.

My dog is a Tibetan Terrier. If you don't think a border collie
could get through the short ribs, I would think a Tibetan Terrier
might not be able to make it through either????

I'm perfectly content to feed boneless beef or to
> offer a completely inedible bone that's slathered in meat (like a
fully
> fleshed out shank).

What do you mean by fleshed out shank? Do you mean a shank with alot
of meat? If I wanted to buy that, what would I call it?
>
> If you think your girl is a considerate eater, she may do fine on a
> short rib: Either chomping through it without haste, or ripping off
the
> meat, worrying the ends and edges but leaving the greater part of
the
> bone unravaged. My guess is this is a "try it and see" situation.
>
> Fat lotta help, hey?

Yes, it's helpful ... but I'm not sure what to do??? LOL. So when I
read about people feeding beef ribs, what are they referencing, spare
ribs? short ribs? I want to feed it to him, BUT I don't want to send
myself into high stress worrying about him eating it. I get this
stress feeling when he is eating bone, not all the time, but there is
always a bit of tension in me.

Thanks,
Cynthia

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: Beef Shortribs? Did I buy the right thing?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:02 am ((PST))

Hi, Cynthia!
Hmm, this may help;
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts_photos/beef.pdf
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts_photos/beefchart.pdf

The cuts labeled back ribs, short ribs, or either of the brisket cuts with
ribs I would avoid with a dog the size of yours or larger.

I feed my Newfy Bea the type called rib set in the aussie chart (mine have
the meaty part cut off) in slabs of 3-4 for a
snack-keep-her-busy-make-it-seem-like-a-meal on a day or three after a big
gorge meal. There's fat and a little meat and connective tissue for
'flossing', but its not a real meal, and these are NOT edible bones, imo.
Just busy work. I take the bones up and toss them when she's done stripping
off the fun stuff. And, I keep an eye on her, and trade her a treat if she
comes across a loose chunk of beef bone - if she chews and swallows these,
they always come back up later, and Bea's got a cast iron digestive system
usually.

If you have boughten short ribs, they *might* be OK for a chew toy for your
dog, but they *are* of a size for stupid eating (Chris!) or swallowing and
they aren't, imo, a meal. Better to feed beef heart for meals, not too hard
to find and pretty cheap, ime.

The shank is shown in this chart, but is better fed to a dog whole, not cut
so that the bone is in little circles that are easily swallowed;
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts_photos/beefchart.pdf

HTH
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

<snip>
>
>
>
> What do you mean by fleshed out shank? Do you mean a shank with a lot
> of meat? If I wanted to buy that, what would I call it?<snip>
> Yes, it's helpful ... but I'm not sure what to do??? LOL. So when I
> read about people feeding beef ribs, what are they referencing, spare
> ribs? short ribs? I want to feed it to him, BUT I don't want to send
> myself into high stress worrying about him eating it. I get this
> stress feeling when he is eating bone, not all the time, but there is
> always a bit of tension in me.
>
> Thanks,
> Cynthia
>
>

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Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
Posted by: "heather pavelin" hpav061378@yahoo.com hpav061378
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:10 pm ((PST))

I have 2 greys and have been feeding raw for about 3 months now. My boy had a sensitive tummy on kibble and now he is great. My greys coats have become beautiful and their teeth are nice and shiny! I feed chicken and pork and organs havent gotten to the beef yet as I am scared for my boys tummy so I am going to start slowly with that one. They are getting their own turkey for thanksgiving this year I am so excited! Good luck and just make the plunge it will be worth it. I also dolnt clean up half as much poop which is always a good thing. Heather

GreysareGreyt <greyzz@sbcglobal.net> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle Urbano" <chelleu@...>
wrote:
>> I have two rescued greyhounds that I would like to start feeding raw.
> Was just wondering if there are any other owners that have gone to
> this diet and how their dogs have done.
> >
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Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: Does anyone have greyhounds that they feed raw?
Posted by: "valpascale" valpascale@yahoo.com valpascale
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:03 am ((PST))

Hi Michelle,

I'm new to the group and have just recently started transitioning
from kibble (ack! dirty word!) and canned food to raw, so I'm still
figuring things out and learning what my dogs like and don't like. I
have one greyhound, about 56 lbs, 4 years old. Her name is Ginger.
I also have two min pins that are going raw with mixed results so far
(one LOVES it, the other is still not sure what to do with the
RMBs).

So far, for RMBs Ginger loves turkey & chicken necks, rabbit, and
whole chicken wings. I've learned that whole turkey necks and
chicken leg quarters are too much for one meal - she hoards them
instead of eating them. She likes chicken and pork for muscle meat,
but she's not too keen on chicken liver in large chunks. She loves
fish, but that's expensive so is a rare treat.

I will say this, Ginger is much more excited about meal times than
she used to be. And her poop is firmer than before also - a big
concern for greyhound owners ;-) !

Hope this helps!
Valerie

Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. got 2 deer
Posted by: "mandajenwalker" walker1031@chartermi.net mandajenwalker
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:44 pm ((PST))

My hubby got two deer in the last couple days and we are looking for
ideas on how to process it....I guess the question is, what bones can
the dogs eat on the deer?
Thanks
Mandy

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: got 2 deer
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:30 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mandajenwalker" <walker1031@...>
wrote:
I guess the question is, what bones can
> the dogs eat on the deer?

Hi Mandy,
I feed all deer bones to my dogs provided they are covered with meat.
Once the leg bones are stripped down to bare naked bones, i just
remove and toss them. The legs are the only bones that i think you
should remove. The rest, including the head, imo, are edible. KathyM

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. food scales
Posted by: "kwrestad" kwrestad@yahoo.com kwrestad
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:29 pm ((PST))

I am looking to purchase a food scale to help weigh my dogs' meat.
Any suggestions? Places to buy them?

Thanks for the help!
Kyle R

Messages in this topic (4)
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6b. Re: food scales
Posted by: "Greta Hill" GretaHill@aol.com sunstate23
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:51 pm ((PST))

When I needed to put one of my dogs on a diet, I bought a cheap scale
from Walmart.

Greta

Messages in this topic (4)
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6c. Re: food scales
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:52 pm ((PST))

YESSSSS
I have a few different scales for mailing items & work great for weighing
food too.
The cheapest is the little plastic ones used in weight loss :-)
OR a postage scale works well for a few dollars (check ebay)!
Trina

On Nov 17, 2007 8:49 PM, kwrestad <kwrestad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I am looking to purchase a food scale to help weigh my dogs' meat.
> Any suggestions? Places to buy them?
>
> Thanks for the help!
> Kyle R
>
> __
>

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Messages in this topic (4)
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6d. Re: food scales
Posted by: "Dee.1725" dee.1725@yahoo.ca dagmarhnadeck
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:40 am ((PST))

I bought a digital scale at Wal-Mart for $24.99 (Canadian) and am very happy with it. Use it every day to weigh my dogs food.

Dagmar H.

----- Original Message -----
From: kwrestad
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 11:49 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] food scales

I am looking to purchase a food scale to help weigh my dogs' meat.
Any suggestions? Places to buy them?

Thanks for the help!
Kyle R

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Messages in this topic (4)
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7. puppy sick after first week of raw - what am i doing wrong?
Posted by: "kasiarukszto" kasiarukszto@yahoo.com kasiarukszto
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:44 am ((PST))

Hi,

this is my first post. My french bulldog puppy has been on pre-made raw food for a week
and is not doing well. here's what happened. i started him on beef and organ mix (no
bone). i planned on using just beef for the first few weeks to make sure he tolerates well.
the first 3 days were great - loved the food, one normal poop a day, no problems. on 4th
day, his poop was loose so i thought i need to add some bone to his diet and bought a
ground beef/ground bone mix. but because it had to thaw out he still had two meals of
meat/organ, and only meat/bone at night. i also gave him some yogurt and a bit of
pumpkin.the next morning his poop was a little loose but better. so i fed him the meat/
bone mix for the whole day with some pumpkin in two of the meals. then late last night
(1AM) he had diarrhea and has been throwing up bile.

i haven't given him anything to eat today, but am at a loss for what to do next. is this a
sign he can't eat beef? was it too rich to start with? what should i give him to eat next (i
assume i should fast him, right?)?

i will take him to the vet of course to make sure he's otherwise fine, but i don't want to
give up on raw feeding, and am not sure that my vet will have much advice there (he's not
against, just not his area of expertise). i should say that unitl today (when the bile throw
up started), he's been feeling fine (active, drinking water, alert), so i don't think he's got a
virus.

thanks for any advice (and constructive criticism:),

kasia

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