[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12042
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: regurgitating
From: great_dane_devotee
1b. Re: regurgitating
From: katkellm
1c. Re: regurgitating
From: great_dane_devotee
1d. Re: regurgitating
From: johkemp
2a. chicken with bone in for small dogs?
From: Carol Garnaat
2b. Re: chicken with bone in for small dogs?
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
2c. Re: chicken with bone in for small dogs?
From: Giselle
3a. Re: update on Molly - she's home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: Monica A. Joy
3b. feeding dead layer to the dogs
From: great_dane_devotee
3c. Re: feeding dead layer to the dogs
From: ginny wilken
3d. Re: update on Molly - she's home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: Trish
4a. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucus
From: Yasuko herron
5a. raw diet and kidney failure
From: cypressbunny
6a. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
From: costrowski75
7a. Re: Tried to feed raw diet today.. NO LUCK
From: Casey Post
8a. Newbie (sort of): Where to feed?
From: skyli_19
8b. Re: Newbie (sort of): Where to feed?
From: Laurie Swanson
8c. Re: Newbie (sort of): Where to feed?
From: Giselle
8d. Re: Newbie (sort of): Where to feed?
From: johkemp
9.1. How much to feed
From: Jenn
9.2. Re: How much to feed
From: carnesbill
9.3. Re: How much to feed
From: Laurie Swanson
10a. Re: meant 104
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
11.1. Re: Newbie intro, veggies, Dr. Lonsdale and a couple questions
From: johkemp
12. maltese puppy wont eat RBM's except chicken necks
From: gary44deb
Messages
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1a. Re: regurgitating
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:44 am ((PDT))
On the topic of regurgitating, my Dane tends ro have a sensitive tummy. I had forgotten
that while I was feeding kibble because she didn't throw up much on it.
But I took the plunge and started raw a couple of days ago. I found pork ribs really cheap
and so she had a couple of days of that, but then I ran out, so I got some chicken. She
hates chicken. Actually both dogs are none too fond of chicken. (Is it possible that
because I've raised chickens and they weren't allowed to eat my chickens they won't eat
chicken...?)
Anyway, I got chicken for $1 per pound whole. I whacked it in half, gave the Dane a half
and the Flat Coat a 1/4. Neither touched it. So they skipped breakfast. They turned their
nose up at the same chicken for dinner. After dinner I had to go to the store for
something else and thought I'd cruise the sale aise for meat. Lo and behold they had pigs
feet! only 1.49/lb! I bought up a bunch of those.
When I came home I offered them the pigs feet, and they were happily munching away for
a couple of hours. The Flat Coat was fine all night but the Dane- darned sensitive tummy-
had to throw up around three this morning. If she would just go out and eat grass and
throw up, I'd be fine. But, no she has to bark and let the neighborhood know that some
other dog is barking.... anyway we are basically up and down for an hour and a half.
whine!
The question is....
Do I give up on pigs feet or feed pigs feet only in the morning?
Do I give up on feeding them chicken?
Do I just give the Dane more meat and less bone?
Do you guys just feed in the morning and not in the evening?
I know regurgitating is natural for a dog, but its a pain in the neck for me to have to be up
with her, so I'd like to minimize it.
thanks,
Libby
and Serena and Amica
Messages in this topic (9)
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1b. Re: regurgitating
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:24 am ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "great_dane_devotee"
<libpowers@...> wrote:
>> The question is....
> > Do I give up on pigs feet or feed pigs feet only in the morning?
> >
> Do I just give the Dane more meat and less bone?
Hi Libby,
I think that fed solo, especially for a new raw fed dog, pigs' feet
are way too bony. They are alright when fed with a hunk of boneless
meat to add bone to a meal, but i wouldn't feed them as the only food
choice.
I would guess that your dane didn't really have a sensitive tummy
attack, but a normal new raw fed dog who is trying to digest too much
bone attack. So, yes you need to fed less bone and more
meat,not becasue your dane is sensitive, but because you strayed too
far from the 80% meat, 10% bone recipe.
As far the the vomiting goes, its a temporary thing for lots of new
raw fed dogs. It occurs because their digestive juices are not up to
snuff and can't get the food digested in the amount of time necessary
to move it out. It is kind of like the five mile jog that is way too
far on day one of your new fitness routine, but seems like nothing a
month later. HTH,KathyM
Messages in this topic (9)
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1c. Re: regurgitating
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:38 pm ((PDT))
thanks, for the great advice, Kathy. I will try to stick to the 80/20 recipe and not expect
miracles too fast!
I am the perpetual optomist!
Libby
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "great_dane_devotee"
> <libpowers@> wrote:
> >> The question is....
> > > Do I give up on pigs feet or feed pigs feet only in the morning?
> > >
> > Do I just give the Dane more meat and less bone?
>
> Hi Libby,
> I think that fed solo, especially for a new raw fed dog, pigs' feet
> are way too bony. They are alright when fed with a hunk of boneless
> meat to add bone to a meal, but i wouldn't feed them as the only food
> choice.
>
Messages in this topic (9)
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1d. Re: regurgitating
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:41 pm ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Vickie" <dals4creekside@...> wrote:
>
> Also I fed some lamb kidney today and both dogs left
> that laying and wouldn't touch it. Any idea on this?
> Thanks
> Vickie
>
The first time I fed kidneys and liver to my dog and cats they did the
same thing. I found that cutting it into smaller pieces got them more
interested in it. I mixed it in with other chunks of meat and they ate
the lot.
I have found that if I feed just offal the dog farts up a storm so I
usually add it to a meaty meal.
Jo
Messages in this topic (9)
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2a. chicken with bone in for small dogs?
Posted by: "Carol Garnaat" cgar88@ameritech.net sewnchine
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:46 am ((PDT))
Hello,
I've only very recently came upon the concept of raw feeding and am trying to learn before I try. I have 3 small senior dogs, a miniature daschund (12 lb), a Yorkshire Terrier (8 lb), and a Rat Terrier (20 lb). My questions is in regard to feeding them raw chicken. I've always been told not to let a dog get a chicken bone b/c it can pierce their intestines. Is this a concern, especially with small dogs like these?
Carol in Mid-Mich
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Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: chicken with bone in for small dogs?
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:26 pm ((PDT))
Carol,
Nope, they will do fine, I have a pomchi mix, (along with two great danes) and I give her game hens, and I cut them into quarters, and she does the rest. They do just fine in chewing up the bones. The old wives tale is for cooked bones, that will do the damage. When you are feeding raw, they get all the nutrients and marrow from the bones, and chew them up because they are soft and pliable, check it out, if you can bend them, most bones can bend when raw, except maybe ribs and legs, and you can, and they can chew on them, and they do, they will be fine. It takes them a little while longer than the big dogs, and that is ok too. And my Daisy has stolen some huge bones from my danes and I have come back to find them in my bed, with her sleeping next to them, in a pile, with alot of damage done on an end, so it is ok, you just need to get to know what your dogs can and can't do. I stay away from bones that the butcher has cut with a band saw, they have
some sharp edges on them, but my danes do fine with them, Daisy has a more delicate mouth and seems to not like them, but the danes, eat them all. Some people say be careful with certain bones, it's up to you, like I said, mine eat them all, and when they don't, it's rare, and if I step on one, more than once, I throw it away.
Jump in, watch the dogs, see how they do, if they are gulpers, give them larger pieces so they won't choke down boney chunks, so they have to chew the bone, which is what you want them to do. That way they get the teeth cleaned, and all the nutrients out of it, and see what happens. Give them a big enough piece that you can take away in a bit after they have had say a few ounces and then give it to them again at the next feeding. Then they get used to the bigger chunks, not swallowing whole pieces, and that you will in fact feed them again, so they aren't going to starve.:) Then the gulping usually stops too. Some dogs always stay gulpers, its just those dogs, but with the little ones, you can usually stop that in time.
Hope that helps, good luck, and let us know how it goes, I'm sure you'll be pleased in your little ones, I was when Daisy first got it.:)
Jeni
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Messages in this topic (3)
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2c. Re: chicken with bone in for small dogs?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:30 pm ((PDT))
Hi, Carol!
Its COOKED bones you have to avoid!
Raw bones of small critters and some from larger ones, should be
mostly, partly or entirely edible by tiny dogs. You don't need much
edible bone in the diet.
You could start with Game Hens, they're chickens, but are slaughtered
at a younger age, so are smaller, with softer bone.
You want to branch out from chicken tho', after a couple weeks.
Go to the group's website and paste this into the search box;
post # 141374
Or, follow this link;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374
That should answer some Qs and help you get started.
TC and let us know how your dogs progress!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey
> Hello,
> I've only very recently came upon the concept of raw feeding and am
trying to learn before I try. I have 3 small senior dogs, a miniature
dachshund (12 lb), a Yorkshire Terrier (8 lb), and a Rat Terrier (20
lb). My questions is in regard to feeding them raw chicken. I've
always been told not to let a dog get a chicken bone b/c it can pierce
their intestines. Is this a concern, especially with small dogs like
these?
>
> Carol in Mid-Mich
Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: update on Molly - she's home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: "Monica A. Joy" imajoy@hughes.net imajoy2003
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:30 am ((PDT))
Could someone explain what pancreatitis is? I read it here alot and don't know what it is.
I love this rawfeeding stuff. I fed beef tongue this am to my 5 adult dogs and 6 10wk old pups. Though I thought it was kinda gross to handle when I saw them enjoying it it was worth it. I'm getting more. I love to watch them eat now. Yesterday one of my laying hens died so I gave it to the pups. The only part left is the wing tips and a few feathers. I use to throw them on the property to watch for bald eagles - This is just as much fun.
Thanks for everyone's help.
Monica
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Messages in this topic (20)
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3b. feeding dead layer to the dogs
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:39 pm ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Monica A. Joy" <imajoy@...> wrote:
> Yesterday one of my laying hens died so I gave it to the pups. The only part left is the
wing tips and a few feathers. >
> Thanks for everyone's help.
>
> Monica
>
Monica,
Does feeding a dead laying hen make your dogs more prone to catching them live?
I've always made sure my dogs understood that the hens were under my protection, but when
my Dane was a puppy she killed one and was told no. (I was feeding commercial raw patties
at the time.) How does that work out in your life?
Libby
Messages in this topic (20)
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3c. Re: feeding dead layer to the dogs
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:58 pm ((PDT))
On Sep 16, 2007, at 12:18 PM, great_dane_devotee wrote:
> Monica,
>
> Does feeding a dead laying hen make your dogs more prone to
> catching them live?
>
> I've always made sure my dogs understood that the hens were under
> my protection, but when
> my Dane was a puppy she killed one and was told no. (I was feeding
> commercial raw patties
> at the time.) How does that work out in your life?
>
> Libby
My dog won't eat "his" chickens. He shows no interest in chasing
them, although he hops about when they are excited as I catch one. I
show it to him live, and he sniffs its butt. I offer it to him dead,
and he walks away, and doesn't even want to lick up the blood
spilled. I don't save the old hens for myself to eat, so I don't know
how he'd do if handed parts that have been frozen.
Of course, this is a dog with zero prey drive. He doesn't bother
anything, ducks, geese, squirrels. Used to chase rabbits, but just
for fun. The only live thing he eats are houseflies.
ginny and Tomo
All stunts performed without a net!
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Messages in this topic (20)
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3d. Re: update on Molly - she's home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: "Trish" trishwelham@hotmail.com trishwelham
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:10 pm ((PDT))
> Could someone explain what pancreatitis is? I read it here alot and
don't know what it is.
This is from www.peteducation.com. Hope it's helpful and I hope you
never have to deal with it! :-)
The pancreas is a V-shaped organ located behind the stomach and the
first section of the small intestine, the duodenum. It has two main
functions: it aids in metabolism of sugar in the body through the
production of insulin, and is necessary for the digestion of nutrients
by producing pancreatic enzymes. These enzymes help the body promote
the digestion and absorption of fats. Acute pancreatitis is a sudden
onset of pancreatic inflammation.
Causes
Multiple factors can contribute to the development of pancreatitis.
Certain medications, infections; metabolic disorders including
hyperlipidemia (high amounts of lipid in the blood) and hypercalcemia
(high amounts of calcium in the blood); and trauma and shock can be
associated with the development of pancreatitis. Middle-aged dogs
appear to be at increased risk of developing pancreatitis; as a breed,
Schnauzers and Yorkshire Terriers appear to be more prone to
pancreatitis. Nutrition also plays a role. Dogs with diets high in
fat, or dogs who 'steal' or are fed greasy 'people food' seem to have
a high incidence of the disease.
Symptoms
Common symptoms of the acute form of pancreatitis in dogs include a
very painful abdomen, abdominal distention, lack of appetite,
depression, dehydration, a 'hunched up' posture, vomiting, diarrhea
and yellow, greasy stool. Fever often accompanies these symptoms.
Animals with more severe disease can develop heart arrhythmias, sepsis
(body-wide infection), difficulty breathing, and a life-threatening
condition called disseminated intravascular coagulation (DIC), which
results in multiple hemorrhages. If the inflammation is severe, organs
surrounding the pancreas could be 'autodigested' by pancreatic enzymes
released from the damaged pancreas and become permanently damaged.
Diagnosis
The diagnosis of pancreatitis is made through information obtained
from the history, the physical exam, and laboratory testing. Dogs with
pancreatitis generally have an increased blood levels of the
pancreatic enzymes called amylase and lipase. If the liver also
becomes inflamed, liver enzymes as measured in the blood may be
increased. A rather new test, serum trypsin-like immunoreactivity, may
prove to be a valuable diagnostic aid. The white blood cell count is
generally increased in acute pancreatitis. Radiography (x-rays) and
ultrasound can also help in making the diagnosis. Biopsy can result in
a conclusive diagnosis, but is not commonly performed.
Treatment
The goal of treatment is to rest the pancreas, provide supportive care
and control complications. Treatment always begins with a withholding
of food, water, and oral medications for at least 24 hours. The lack
of oral intake stops the stimulation of the pancreas to produce
digestive enzymes. Depending upon the animal's response, food intake
can be started again after a few days. The dog is generally fed small
meals of a bland, easily digestible, low-fat food. Over the course of
a week or more, the size of meals and quantity of food fed are
increased. The dog may need to stay on the special diet for life, or
it may be possible to gradually reintroduce the former diet.
The second major component of treatment is fluid therapy. Dehydration
and electrolyte imbalances are common in dogs with acute pancreatitis,
and water intake is often restricted so fluid therapy is usually
needed. Fluids are either given subcutaneously or intravenous.
Dogs who are experiencing severe pain can be treated with pain
relievers such as meperidine or butorphanol. Antibiotics are often
administered prophylactically to protect against infection.
If the pancreatitis was caused by a medication, the medication should
be stopped. If it was caused by a toxin, infection, or other
condition, appropriate therapy for the underlying condition should be
started.
In rare instances, where there are intestinal complications or the
development of a pancreatic abscess, surgery may be necessary.
Long-term management and prognosis
Pancreatitis can be a very unpredictable disease. In most cases, if
the pancreatitis was mild and the pet only had one episode, chances of
recovery are good, and avoiding high fat foods may be all that is
necessary to prevent recurrence or complications. In other cases, what
appears to be a mild case may progress, or may be treated successfully
only to have recurrences, sometimes severe.
Dogs with severe pancreatitis can recover, but may also develop fatal
complications. The risk of developing fatal pancreatitis is increased
in dogs who are overweight, or have diabetes mellitus,
hyperadrenocorticism, hypothyroidism, gastrointestinal tract disease,
and epilepsy. Pets who have repeated bouts of pancreatitis may need to
be fed low-fat diets to prevent recurrence. Even so, some animals
develop chronic pancreatitis, which can lead to diabetes mellitus
and/or pancreatic insufficiency, also called 'maldigestion syndrome.'
In pancreatic insufficiency, the nutrients in food are passed out in
the feces undigested. An animal with this disease often has a ravenous
appetite, diarrhea, and weight loss. Even though he is eating, he
could literally starve to death. Treatment for pancreatic
insufficiency is lifelong and expensive, but is possible. The pet's
digestive enzymes are replaced through a product processed from
pancreases of hogs and cattle which contain large quantities of the
digestive enzymes. A change in diet with added nutritional supplements
may also be necessary.
Summary
Acute pancreatitis can be a life-threatening condition, and early
recognition and treatment can improve chances of recovery. In dogs,
fever, lack of appetite, depression, and vomiting are the most common
signs. Treatment is based upon stopping all oral intake to rest the
pancreas, correcting the dehydration and maintaining proper fluid and
electrolyte balances, and treating any complications or underlying
conditions.
References and Further Reading
Hess, RS; Kass, PH; Shofer, FS; Van Winkle, TJ; Washabau, RJ.
Evaluation of risk factors for fatal acute pancreatitis in dogs.
Journal of the American Veterinary Association. 1999;214(1):46-51.
Stewart, AF. Pancreatitis in dogs and cats: Cause, pathogenesis,
diagnosis and treatment. The Compendium on Continuing Education for
the Practicing Veterinarian. 1994;16(11):1423-1431.
Williams, DA. Exocrine pancreatic disease. In Ettinger, SJ; Feldman EC
(eds.): Textbook of Veterinary Internal Medicine. W.B. Saunders Co.
Philadelphia, PA; 2000;1347-1355.
Trish and Molly
Messages in this topic (20)
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4a. Re: Vomit greyish brownish liquid with bone chunk and meat and mucus
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:39 am ((PDT))
Hi. Palette slept through night,and this morning,she look like normal palette. Woofing,barking when husband and i came back from short groceryshopping and run to sniff the bag and sit nex to me staring at my bagle i had this morning.At least,she shows interests what we do and good sign I think.
She drank water too,and I tried giving Boneless pork,and she ate it enthustically which is good because it shows she has appetite.
Now her tum is making bit of gurgling sound that I did not hear yestreday,so,I am keeping my fingers crossed.
She normally does poo between 4 to 7pm,so,I am not seeing poo yet.
I hope she be fine..
yassy
---------------------------------
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
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Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. raw diet and kidney failure
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:45 am ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, schreierlori@... wrote:
>
>
>
> BUN 73 and Creatinine 3.6 which then were reduced to 56 and 3
after a full
> day of saline IV. Both were based on non-fasting blood tests
*** Those are high, but not even close to the highest I've ever
seen. The true numbers are probably a bit lower since they were non-
fasting results.
> . The in-house urinanalysis (which means they hand wrote the
results) the
> same day as the second blood test and found a bacterial infection
*** Well that might be good news--if the kidney issue is acute and
entirely bacterial perhaps you will not have to deal with chronic
failure.
> So far I have contacted a wholistic vet who gave her supplements
I am
> planning to introduce green tripe.>
> to her now homecooked diet.
*** Were it my dog, she would be on raw pronto. Cooking destroys
nutrients and denatures proteins, making them more difficult to
digest. Do not fall for the outdated notion that low-protein diets
protect kidneys--it just isn't true. Some holistic vets seem to be
in love with supplements. While I think certain supplements might be
appropriate in certain situations, in general, a quality prey-model
raw diet provides all the necessary nutrients in the correct
proportions and supplementation is not necessary.
--Carrie
Messages in this topic (6)
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6a. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:13 am ((PDT))
Morledzep@... wrote:
>> ***green tripe was useful in getting Merlin to eat raw food when
he was brand
> new.. but he had had some serious counter raw training by someone
who seems
> to have used force..
*****
Poor Merlin, I remember when he wandered into your life.
> we fed him green tripe by itself, just trying to get SOMETHING
> in him after several days of trying to get him to eat.
*****
This makes sense. There are indeed times when you have to go along
with the "holding out for something better" behavior. Can't argue
with that.
So we smeared the green tripe all
> over the outside of a hunk o beef and he ate it all.
<snippage>
> i cut the meat away from the bone
> but left it hanging on to the bone and then rubbed it with green
tripe .
<snippage>
> then we tried just a turkey drummette with no green tripe and no
cutting..
> low and behold, he had figured it out
*****
Hey! This interactive approach is preezackly the ticket. Get the
whole meat (in whatever "unwhole" form you have to present it) into
the picture as soon as possible. Whole meat doused with green tripe
seems like an effective transition for the stubborn at heart.
Thanks, Catherine.
Chris O
Messages in this topic (11)
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7a. Re: Tried to feed raw diet today.. NO LUCK
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:50 am ((PDT))
We tried to give her pigs feet to chew
> on and eat with no luck from either the cat or dog.
Jenn,
As others have advised, you'll probably want to stick with chicken for the
dog for a week or so.
As for the cat, well, cats are a whole different ball of wax...you mustn't
try to tough love them into a diet change. If you do, you risk a medical
condition called hepatic lipidosis, which is a form of liver failure.
Fortunately, one of our finer members is working on a website dedicated to
helping folks with raw and cats -
Go there and read up. Bribe foods, transition foods (like canned cat food),
etc. are all helpful and you never know what will work for an individual
cat, so keep trying. Cats also tend to do best on a lot of variety right up
front, so don't be afraid to try new things for him. Above all, remember to
keep the cat eating *something* every day, even if it's kibble. Hepatic
lipidosis is not something you want to have to deal with if you can avoid
it.
Good luck!
Casey
Messages in this topic (5)
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8a. Newbie (sort of): Where to feed?
Posted by: "skyli_19" NRB19@aol.com skyli_19
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:07 pm ((PDT))
Hi Everyone,
I've been lurking for awhile but don't think I've ever participated.
My girl, Maggie (2.5 yr. Vizsla) has been on Eagle Pack Holistic
kibble for six months until last week. Hopefully we will be 100% raw
from this point on. She loves it but I'm more concerned about my
ability to finance a raw diet. Nearby stores only seem to have
chicken or beef (NOTHING else) so that is all she has been getting
for the last week or so. They have fish but I'm wierd
about 'regular' grocery store fish even for the animals (should i
be?). Central Market has good variety of all meats but it is too
expensive to purchase for the animals (I don't eat alot of meat). I
live in NorthEast Fort Worth (TX)...does anyone live in this area
that might have suggestions on where to buy?
My main question for now, though: Should I be feeding Maggie inside
or outside? I've been throwing chicken or rib out in the yard but it
seems that many of you feed inside. Is it a preference thing or
should I be feeding inside?
Thanks tons,
Nicole & Maggie
Messages in this topic (4)
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8b. Re: Newbie (sort of): Where to feed?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:29 pm ((PDT))
HI Nicole,
I think if feeding outside works for you, keep doing it! Many people
here feed outside (many feed inside, too). If weather is a problem,
then you might want to consider other options. You also may want to
make sure leftovers are cleaned up, as to not attract other critters.
You might search the archives for "cheap sources" or something like
that. Farmers, ranchers, freecycle, Craigslist, taxidermists, friends'
freezer cleanouts, Asian markets, local buying groups, special orders
through meat depts. or butchers, watch local sales flyers.
Laurie
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "skyli_19" <NRB19@...> wrote:
> My main question for now, though: Should I be feeding Maggie inside
> or outside? I've been throwing chicken or rib out in the yard but it
> seems that many of you feed inside. Is it a preference thing or
> should I be feeding inside?
Messages in this topic (4)
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8c. Re: Newbie (sort of): Where to feed?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:31 pm ((PDT))
Hi, Nicole!
Feeding indoors or outdoors is a choice people make for a
lot of reasons; number of dogs, indoor space, training and convenience
seems to be a few factors that affect where people feed.
I like my dogs under my eye, watching them eat in case of the
one-in-a-million possibility of choking or a stuck bone. I like to
watch them eat, its enjoyable. Its easy to feed in my kitchen, I don't
have to carry their food anywhere. Having had dogs of widely divergent
sizes, and sense - I like them to stay in their assigned eating places
until they are done, there's a 'no visiting, no stealing' rule in
place that has always kept my dogs comfortable and safe. I also like
the option to take up a large meal that isn't entirely eaten, and put
it back in the fridge for another day.
While I don't object to feeding stinky meat to my dogs, I do object to
them caching meat on their own, to dig up and eat later. I don't like
the wildlife it attracts. I don't like not knowing how much each dog
is eating. I don't like that there could be tiffs over who's eating
who's stash. I live on 2 acres, but my neighbors are close on either
side of my property, they have dogs of their own and I like to be a
good neighbor. I wouldn't like feeding in all kinds of weather,
keeping the dogs out of the house until the meal is done, even tho' I
have in/out kennel runs for an emergency, my dogs are never in them.
I've fed as many as 8 dogs in my house, and its not big, by any
stretch of the imagination. I've used crates, ex-pens, baby gates, you
name it, to block off access to 'no go' areas. But, mostly, I teach my
dogs to 'go to their place' at meal times, wait there until served and
to stay there without poaching until finished and sent outside to
potty. Its not that hard to accomplish. I mostly use old bath or beach
towels, in appropriate sizes to mark the area for each dog to eat on
and fold them up afterwards. I wash them maybe once a week.
So, its really about what works for you and your dog and what you're
both comfortable with.
As for finding good sources of reasonably priced meat for your dog, go
to the group's website and put this message number in the search box;
#139618
Or, follow this link;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/139618
Lis' List will give you some terrific ideas!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey
> I've been lurking for awhile but don't think I've ever participated.
> My girl, Maggie (2.5 yr. Vizla) has been on Eagle Pack Holistic
> kibble for six months until last week. Hopefully we will be 100% raw
> from this point on. She loves it but I'm more concerned about my
> ability to finance a raw diet.
<snip>
> My main question for now, though: Should I be feeding Maggie inside
> or outside? I've been throwing chicken or rib out in the yard but it
> seems that many of you feed inside. Is it a preference thing or
> should I be feeding inside?
>
> Thanks tons,
> Nicole & Maggie
Messages in this topic (4)
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8d. Re: Newbie (sort of): Where to feed?
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:41 pm ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "skyli_19" <NRB19@...> wrote:
>
>
> ... She loves it but I'm more concerned about my
> ability to finance a raw diet. Nearby stores only seem to have
> chicken or beef (NOTHING else) so that is all she has been getting
> for the last week or so. They have fish but I'm wierd
> about 'regular' grocery store fish even for the animals (should i
> be?)...
I don't know if things are that much cheaper here in Australia but we
find raw feeding our 10 month old 17kg Staffordshire Bull Terrier and
three cats much cheaper that commercial food.
I cruise the supermarkets for those marked down packs of meat - you
know the ones with only a few days fridge life. As most of the meat
goes in the freezer anyway this is not an issue. We have a great
ethnic grocer nearby where I buy goat, offal and chicken feet etc -
again often at great savings. Speak to your local butcher about
buying offcuts of meat - the stuff that gets ground or made into
sausages etc. There are so many options out there.
As to store bought fish - my dog eats rabbit and kangaroo poop and
rolls in god only knows what so I don't think this would be an issue.
Some dogs aren't too keen on fish so don't go overboard at first.
I hope these ideas help.
Jo
Messages in this topic (4)
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9.1. How much to feed
Posted by: "Jenn" jamyers@swampfoxpc.com rdnckgrl83
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:37 pm ((PDT))
Thanks for everyone's help in getting me to the point where i can raw
feed my rottie. I have another question though. Does anyone have any
suggestions on how much to feed her? She is a 108lb. I want to make
sure i am giving her enough food, and she doesn't stay hungry. Any help
would be great. BTW she loves chicken. thanks again.
Jenn Myers
Messages in this topic (32)
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9.2. Re: How much to feed
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:08 pm ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jamyers@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any
> suggestions on how much to feed her? She is a 108lb.
Hey Jenn,
Be more concerned whether she is gaining or losing weight than
whether or not she is hungry. Every dog is so different, it's
almost impossible to say how much each will need. A rule of thumb
often used here is 2% to 3% of the dogs ideal adult weight per day
OR STARTERS. Adjust volume after that depending on whether she is
losing or gaining weight. For your dog it would be between 2 and
3lbs/day. After a month or so you will have a better idea.
Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
Feeding Raw since October 2002
"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale
Messages in this topic (32)
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9.3. Re: How much to feed
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:09 pm ((PDT))
Assuming she's an adult, the ballpark would be somewhere around a
little over 2# to about 3.25# (2-3% of ideal adult weight). You can
start anywhere in there and adjust if she loses/gains weight (assuming
she's at a good weight now).
Laurie
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jenn" <jamyers@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for everyone's help in getting me to the point where i can raw
> feed my rottie. I have another question though. Does anyone have
any
> suggestions on how much to feed her? She is a 108lb. I want to make
> sure i am giving her enough food, and she doesn't stay hungry. Any
help
> would be great. BTW she loves chicken. thanks again.
> Jenn Myers
>
Messages in this topic (32)
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10a. Re: meant 104
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:27 pm ((PDT))
Still, 104 isn't too far of a fever, only one/two degrees, so she could just be stressed. Again, she's in a new environment, let her calm down, which it sounds like she is doing, she's eating, and sleeping with no accidents. The not wanting to come inside is normal for some rescues, I remember, I do danes, we let them pick where they want to sleep, in or out, they are usually very clingy too, but some stay outside, especially abused ones. Give her time, she needs to see you and you with her, to get used to you being there all the time, and that you won't hurt or mistreat her. The panting is a concern, does she do it all the time? And I know you let her know where the water is, and is she drinking? You have seen her take water?
So it's not blout, she is eating and the food doesn't come back up. Is it unusually hot where you are? Is she from a completely different local from you? That could be the panting, not used to the heat? If she is used to cooler weather, she may have a time adjusting? Just a few thoughts. And again, stress can do the panting, but that should subside soon, like tonight, when she knows that she is staying, and that another meal is there, and so are you. Try the rescue remedy, and maybe some ground turkey, a little tripophan might help calm her down too. Hopefully someone else will have some other suggestions too, that will help. I still think it's the stress, but she should calm down. Did you get any info on what her circumstances were where she came from? Maybe something there could help you.
And don't rule out the vet, a good checkup is always a must for a new rescue coming in, but if she already had that, she should just settle in. Unless she shows more signs, or the fever stays, and or goes up, and the panting gets worse, get her in, she's got something going on there. But you already sound like you understand that, and have an eye on it.:)
Let us know, good luck
Jeni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Messages in this topic (2)
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11.1. Re: Newbie intro, veggies, Dr. Lonsdale and a couple questions
Posted by: "johkemp" johkemp@yahoo.com.au johkemp
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:40 pm ((PDT))
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Dana Argiro <dana@...> wrote:
>
>Congratulations on your new pup! I hope you will have years of fun
together.
In response to your questions regarding Lonsdale and Billinghurst these
links may be helpful. They are the ones I put on YA nearly every
post. The feeding guide is produced by Tom Lonsdale and the other
explains why dogs don't need vegetables.
"An informative article called 'Dogs are Carnivores"
http://www.dogtorj.net/id51.html
A feeding guide written by a vet who advocates raw feeding.
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/diet/exp-diet-guide.pdf
I have purchased both the 'Raw Meaty Bones' and 'Work Wonders' books by
Tom Lonsdale and found them extremely informative. The second is the
more user friendly of the two.
As for the kong stuffing - I often used frozen chicken necks or made
little mince icey poles for my pup. Now she just uses it like a bugle -
usually when I am on the phone!!
With the raw feeding do plenty of research, remember that the ratios
given are guide lines, work out the plan over a week or two not daily,
and feed plenty of meaty chunks as well. Maybe add some thighs or
drumsticks to increase the meat in your pup's diet.
Regards
Jo
Messages in this topic (32)
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12. maltese puppy wont eat RBM's except chicken necks
Posted by: "gary44deb" gary44deb@yahoo.com gary44deb
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:43 pm ((PDT))
Hi, my name is Debbie and my malteses name is Fluffy. She is 3 1/2
months old. I started her on a raw food diet immediately after
bringing her home. I adopted her at 8 weeks old. I started her off on
Steves raw food, raw and freeze dried chicken. I also gave her Natures
Variety raw beef. Since last week she started spitting out the bone. I
wanted to wean her off of the store bought raw, so I started her on
chicken necks. She loves them. Now she wont eat any of the store
bought food. She likes beef and I gave her beef for stew. She eats
all the meat but wont eat any of the bone unless it is a chicken neck.
I also gave her some chicken livers and chicken hearts. Should I worry
that she is not eating any bone except chicken neck bones? Thank you
so much.
Debbie
Messages in this topic (1)
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posted by Feed Pets Raw Food @ 7:43 PM
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