[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11878

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Can you feed bone every meal?
From: helpshelteranimals
1b. Re: Can you feed bone every meal?
From: Ivette Casiano
1c. Re: Can you feed bone every meal?
From: Yasuko herron
1d. Re: Can you feed bone every meal?
From: Morledzep@aol.com
1e. Re: Can you feed bone every meal?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

2a. Re: stinky breath?
From: natgs

3a. Re: ]Re: grass eating and parasite
From: Yasuko herron
3b. ]Re: grass eating and parasite
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Questions? Pork bones? Coat?
From: Laura Atkinson
4b. Re: Questions? Pork bones? Coat?
From: Yasuko herron
4c. Re: Questions? Pork bones? Coat?
From: carnesbill

5a. low thyroid diet
From: Susanne MacLeod
5b. Re: low thyroid diet
From: costrowski75
5c. Re: low thyroid diet
From: Casey Post
5d. Re: low thyroid diet
From: ginny wilken

6a. Re: Effect of Raw Food Eating on Canine Cataracts?
From: Ivette Casiano
6b. Re: Effect of Raw Food Eating on Canine Cataracts?
From: Ivette Casiano

7a. Re: all these problems
From: swilken61
7b. Re: all these problems
From: merril Woolf

8. more non-problems
From: swilken61

9a. Re: All these non-problems
From: temy1102

10a. Re: Costs of Raw Feeding
From: carnesbill

11a. Re: chicken skin and oil
From: Morledzep@aol.com

12. Good news about raw feeding
From: v_rod_or

13. question from a new member--- male not eating
From: Jennifer

Messages
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1a. Re: Can you feed bone every meal?
Posted by: "helpshelteranimals" helpshelteranimals@yahoo.com helpshelteranimals
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 7:51 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "spicemother" <spicemother@...>
wrote:

> Are you able to feed bone every meal?
***************

Some dogs get the soupy poos when you DON'T feed a little bone every
meal. My dog is one of them.

AG & Ruffian

Messages in this topic (9)
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1b. Re: Can you feed bone every meal?
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 7:57 am ((PDT))

<<If your dog feels that two thighs a day are too much bone, it's easy to
just feed something boneless for one of those meals. Remember that
only about 10% of the diet needs to be edible bone -- most of what
you're feeding should indeed be meat, fat, skin, and connective tissue.

-- sandy & griffin>>

Sandy, what about dogs that have arthritis and/or displacia, don't they need more bone that other dogs? Don't know if 10% is enough in that situation.
Ivette

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.

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Messages in this topic (9)
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1c. Re: Can you feed bone every meal?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:04 pm ((PDT))

>Sandy, what about dogs that have arthritis and/or displacia, don't they need more bone >that other dogs? Don't know if 10% is enough in that situation.

Hi,Ivette. My dog used to limp,and I used to give grucosamin with green lipped mussel supplements which made her limp-free right way.

After switching to raw, I stopped giving the supplement of grucosamin because I read that feeding raw diet contains natural grucosamin in it,and sure enough she is still limp-free and run like wind.

I don't think that you need to give more bone to dog with it as long as you give hunk of meat with some bone in meal;(too much bone leads to constipation).

I do not think that feeding neckbones or ribs all the time for example would help with the problems either.

Bone (joints or cartlige) has natural glucosamin too but,mainly bone is for calcium intake if I understanding it right.

So, as long as giving some bone,I think you are fine.

If still limping,then, supplement with glucosamin/chondroitin/green lipped mussel would help.

Maybe others could help you more with their knowledge?

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (9)
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1d. Re: Can you feed bone every meal?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:11 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/3/2007 6:58:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,
ivettecasiano@yahoo.com writes:

Don't know if 10% is enough in that situation.

Viet,

10% bone is all that is necessary.. even for dogs with arthritis and HD. the
thing to add in this situation is foods heavy in cartilage.. gullets,
tracheas, chicken feet.. things like this, heavy in cartilage = heavy in condroitin
and glucosamine.

Calcium is not the cure for joint diseases, glucosamine and condroitin in
their natural form are. Some folks comfort themselves by adding suppliments, but
in my experience they are not as effective as getting it naturally through
the diet.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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Messages in this topic (9)
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1e. Re: Can you feed bone every meal?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:15 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/3/2007 12:12:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Morledzep@aol.com writes:

Viet,

oopps that was supposed to be Ivette.. how did i do that? Sorry.. VERY
sorry..

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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2a. Re: stinky breath?
Posted by: "natgs" natgs@yahoo.com natgs
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 7:52 am ((PDT))

Dear Kate,

I have a hairy beastie also (briard). Occasionally, he gets food stuck
in his mustache and beard. I simply pull whatever is stuck out. As for
the raw 'juices', I found that he gets rid of them himself when he
drinks from the bowl. I try to change the water in his bowl after each
drink to make sure that it stays clean for drinking/face wash.

I've seen other people's posts saying that they use baby wipes to get
rid of dirt/smells. I think it's not a bad idea, as long as you use
the non-scented ones. The scented ones have a pretty strong fragrance
to me. Can you imagine the effect they will have on dogs with their
super-sensitive noses?

One other thing. If you have bone in your dog's diet, and you said
that you do, there's really no need to brush his/her teeth. Chewing on
the bone will work the same if not better. Just make sure that you
include the bones that take time to chew/gnaw on.

Hope this helps.

Natalya

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "deep_ocean_of_sorrow"
<deep_ocean_of_sorrow@...> wrote:
> my dog generally would eat the entire bone and meats, but since he
has long fur around his mouth, he gets some of the stench of raw meats
> around there. would brushing his teeth more often help? (i usually
only do it once a
> week, during when he's in the bath cause otherwise the toothpaste
goes everywhere around his white fur.)
> or should i be just wiping it away with something? (i dont know if
that would get rid of the stench though..)
>
> please help!
>
> ¢¼Kate

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: ]Re: grass eating and parasite
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 7:58 am ((PDT))

>parasites may be anywhere in your lawn or on bugs your pet may eat.

Hi.Then,I should interfere when my dog start munching on grasses?

I usually let her munch on it if she wanted to though..

I feel like after switching to raw,she munch on it more than before. Shenever throw up,she poop it out.

yassy

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

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Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. ]Re: grass eating and parasite
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:22 pm ((PDT))

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
>
> Hi.Then,I should interfere when my dog start munching on grasses?
*****
No.

> I usually let her munch on it if she wanted to though..
*****
Good idea!

> I feel like after switching to raw,she munch on it more than
before. Shenever throw up,she poop it out.
*****
My dogs ate grass when kibblefed, they eat grass now. I suspect we
will never fully catalog the reasons for grass eating, so while it is
often entertaining to speculate, I don't believe it's essential to
know "why".
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: Questions? Pork bones? Coat?
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 9:16 am ((PDT))

Ok, a couple of things going on here.

1. When you say "normal thyroid" did you have the full, 6 panel
thyroid run or the cheaper and more common 4 panel thyroid.

2. Try to reduce their chicken intake and increase fattier foods,
lamb and pork are good, fatty meats. Mine have chicken once, maybe
twice a week...but lamb, pork and beef heart are much more common
items in their weekly meals.

3. No need to feed the Vit E; save the money for more meat. Ditto
the seameal mineral/vit. supplement. They could very well be part of
what's wrong with the coat. I know when I stopped the kelp
supplements (yeah yeah, I know) all of my Siberians' coats improved
tremendously.

4. Veggies - skip 'em. Add more meat/fat.

5. Yogurt - skip it. There's no eartly reason to feed it...save it
for making Frosty Paws treats or something.

6. Fish oil. Increase it. Especially if you're feeding lots of
chicken. If you're feeding one capsule, add a second. Heck, add a
third as long as they tolerate it.

7. Pork bones...overally, they're pretty darn soft. I'll let my crew
work on 'em until I'm tired of waiting to let them out of their dinner
crates.

On 8/3/07, tseiko1 <akei1@netsync.net> wrote:
> I am feeding raw to 2 sibes-3 years and 4 months. The 3 year old has
> a dry, brittle coat(normal thyroid)and am wondering if I should stop
> chicken. Sibes get varied meat & fish diet (heavy on chicken), Salmon
> oil in AM, Vit. E in PM, Seameal mineral and vitamin supplement in AM,
> raw veggies in AM, couple raw eggs weekly and yogurt few times weekly.
> Any help tweaking and improving would be wonderful. Next question
> involves pork bones- I want to feed more pork, but so many seem just
> so thick-I know about no pork chops, but what pork bones, if any, are
> too big and can cause tooth damage in adults and growing puppies?
> Thanks.
> BJ
>
>
>
> All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com

Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: Questions? Pork bones? Coat?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:04 pm ((PDT))

>1. When you say "normal thyroid" did you have the full, 6 panelthyroid run or the cheaper >and more common 4 panel thyroid.

Hi,Laura. I see some post now and then regarding thyroid test on this list. Is this something you need to check regularly like every year or it is just the person who does have particular problems and one of the suspected stuff was thyroid level??

I see that BJ talking about doggy coat.Is it something to do with it?

>5. Yogurt - skip it. There's no eartly reason to feed it...save it for making Frosty Paws >treats or something.

I freeze Yogurt and give this ice cubed frozen yogurt as treat after excersize like fetching or walking. This is much much healthier than frosty paws and,my dog drool over it.
I know that people better not to have Yogurt everyday but is it apply to dog too? Even as treat amount??I usually give 1 ice cube trayed frozen Yogurt,and sometimes,2 but not more than that.

>7. Pork bones...overally, they're pretty darn soft. I'll let my crew work on 'em until I'm tired >of waiting to let them out of their dinner crates.

As for pork bones, I have fed pork feet,pork neck,pork ribs etc and,like you say,pork bone looks quite soft and my dog crunch down like she eats chicken bones. I think Ribs bone are more softer than the other pork bone from my impression watching how she eats.Pork feet was most time taking pork bone I think.

I do not give pork chop bone.If I add pork chop meat to bonier meal,I cut bone out and toss away.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (4)
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4c. Re: Questions? Pork bones? Coat?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:09 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tseiko1" <akei1@...> wrote:
>
> I am feeding raw to 2 sibes-3 years and 4 months. The 3 year old has
> a dry, brittle coat(normal thyroid)and am wondering if I should stop
> chicken.

No reason to stop chicken as long as its part of a varied diet.

> Sibes get varied meat & fish diet (heavy on chicken), Salmon
> oil in AM,

> Vit. E in PM, Seameal mineral and vitamin supplement in AM,
> raw veggies in AM, couple raw eggs weekly and yogurt few
> times weekly.

Dump Vit.E, semeal, mineral and vitamin supplements. Dump veggies adn
yogurt.

> I want to feed more pork, but so many seem just
> so thick-I know about no pork chops, but what pork bones, if any, are
> too big and can cause tooth damage in adults and growing puppies?

Feed pork bones except the ones in pork chops. The large ones are
great. Don't worry about them.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. low thyroid diet
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:00 pm ((PDT))

my katie has been diagnosed with a low thyroid. should i change her
diet at all. right now she gets ostrich, elk, rabbit, some fish, pork,
chicken, along with green tripe. She gets fed everything; rmb's,
organs, some ground, etc. I alsu give her artic vigor, glucosomine,
and the odd blueberries.
thanks so much
suz kate and joey

Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: low thyroid diet
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:28 pm ((PDT))

"Susanne MacLeod" <suzmacleod@...> wrote:
>
> my katie has been diagnosed with a low thyroid. should i change her
> diet at all. right now she gets ostrich, elk, rabbit, some fish,
pork,
> chicken, along with green tripe. She gets fed everything; rmb's,
> organs, some ground, etc. I alsu give her artic vigor, glucosomine,
> and the odd blueberries.
*****
You cannot fix a low thyroid condition with diet but you can feed a
high quality species appropriate diet to support the dog in other
ways. You are feeding a high quality species appropriate diet now.

Address the thyroid with the necessary meds knowing that, were Katie
still on kibble, the required dose would almost assuredly be higher.

You're doing fine, Suz. You been doing fine.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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5c. Re: low thyroid diet
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:33 pm ((PDT))

> my katie has been diagnosed with a low thyroid.

Ah-ha! No huge surprise for those of us who know of Katie's issues, but
really glad you have an answer on that and it's something you can deal with!

>should i change her
> diet at all.

Nah. Katie's on a great plan, you stick with what's working for her!

Casey

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5d. Re: low thyroid diet
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 5:28 pm ((PDT))

On Aug 3, 2007, at 9:22 AM, Susanne MacLeod wrote:

> my katie has been diagnosed with a low thyroid. should i change her
> diet at all. right now she gets ostrich, elk, rabbit, some fish,
> pork,
> chicken, along with green tripe. She gets fed everything; rmb's,
> organs, some ground, etc. I alsu give her artic vigor, glucosomine,
> and the odd blueberries.
> thanks so much
> suz kate and joey

No, not at all.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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6a. Re: Effect of Raw Food Eating on Canine Cataracts?
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:00 pm ((PDT))

<<Cataracts do
have a huge nutritional component, and they will show up in dogs with
a predilection to form them whenever they are stressed, whether by
food or drugs or mistreatment. But if they do not resolve by
providing an excellent diet, then there is still the possibility that
homeopathy can provide the clue the body needs to restore itself.>>

ginny, thank you so much for the information. I don't think my Nugget has been on raw long enough to see a marked improvement in his cataracts but I'll be looking for it.
Ivette

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
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Check out fun summer activities for kids.

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6b. Re: Effect of Raw Food Eating on Canine Cataracts?
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:01 pm ((PDT))

<<Antioxidants
A good source is egg yoke if I remember correctly.
Vitamins C and E
Canine physiology produces its own vitamin C. A good source of
vitamin E is liver, but don't overdo the liver because you don't want
to build up the fat soluble vitamins A, D, E and K.
Zinc
Good sources are oysters and hamberg.
Copper
Good sources are oysters and shell fish, kidneys and liver.>>

Lee and Karen, thank you so much. I know a lot about human nutrition but am learning a lot from this group about canine nutrition.
Ivette

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
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7a. Re: all these problems
Posted by: "swilken61" powrfemme@aol.com swilken61
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:03 pm ((PDT))

Hello Ty,

I am the orignator of the mucose stool post and I just want to say
don't be discouraged. I don't know if others are like this, but since
one of my dogs has pancreatitis, I have become a stool watcher and I
tend to be sensitive to their digestive upsets. Since I've only been
feeding raw for 6 weeks, I watch everything and it is good to know that
others have had some of the same experiences and that I am probably
worrying over nothing.

I've been very happy with the switch and highly recommend it, mucosy
stool and all. It's too soon to tell if it will help with my UTI girls
problems, but my pancreatits girl has been much better. And the dogs
took to it like you would not beleive. The one was always a picky eater
and now she sits and waits for her food. The cat is another story, but
even she is seeing the light also.

So give it a try and see how it goes.

Stephany

Messages in this topic (26)
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7b. Re: all these problems
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:11 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@> wrote:
> > Keep in mind, people post when they're having problems, for help. You
> > rarely have people logging in daily to say "great stools, good coat,
> > everything's great."
> >
> *****
> Hey, do you think it's time to have another "don't nobody bring me no
> bad news" day? Sounds like we might need a dose of uneventful.
> Chris O
>

I sometimes wonder if people reading these lists think all dogs eating raw are having
horrible problems adjusting. You'd certainly be correct in thinking this if you were to
judge all the posts asking for help.

It has concerned me at times, but I think we'd be right to assume the many thousands of
people natural feeding are doing so quite uneventfully.
I'm a long time raw feeder and I can't think of a single problem I've had. I have to watch
my dogs weight very carefully as they get fat just thinking about food. I have fed things
as small as chicken necks or feet to as large as whole cows. (ok, cut up some, but they
still get whole pelvis's or heads). They've had whole goats and whole lambs and kids.
They've eaten things that make me question myself at times and they have done so
without a single problem. No vet visits for 'stuck stuff' or cannon butt. Never even had
that. They are not surviving, they are thriving.

I do have one comment to the lady who asked for help because her mini doxie swollowed
a chicken peice whole. It reminded me of a pup I flew out to MO to pick up from a friend
of mine who fed kibble. The pup was coming back with me and was 8 weeks and 9 lbs.
I got home with the new arrival and promply got out some chicken to feed the new guy. I
handed him a chicken neck and turned away to get another neck out and when I looked
back at the 9 lb puppy, he was just standing there staring at me. I thought one of my
other dogs had snatched it off him so got him another neck and gave it to him while
making sure none of the adults snatched dit away. To my anxety, the new pup grabbed
the neck and swollowed it whole. I now knew what happened to the other neck I handed
him.
Even though I was and am a long time raw feeder, I had this sudden vision of me calling
my kibble feeding friend to tell her that her precious baby had dropped dead from
swollowing whole chicken necks.
I was soon to learn that the new baby could crunch up or swollow whole anything that
didn't eat him first. He will swollow whole chicken backs without a second thought.
If a little puppy doing this can make me think twice, I know how it must have felt for you
with your little doxie and the fact you are new to raw feeding. It does make you cringe
just a bit. You'd be surprised how tough they are though.

Merril
Whippets

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8. more non-problems
Posted by: "swilken61" powrfemme@aol.com swilken61
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:07 pm ((PDT))

I'd like to, in addition to my previous post, that as a new raw feeder,
I am amazed by the change in my girls.

My 9 year old seems much younger, my other dog now waits for her food
and is eating well. Now that the cat is mostly in raw (she's been slow
to transition) her coat is goreous.

I'll admit that I was skeptical about some of the benefits. I felt it
woudl be healthier, but I didn't really believe it would change whether
or not they got fleas, they wouldn't shed as much, whatever.

So far, that seems to be the case. I haven't seen a flea all summer,
and I live in Florida! I noticed I am sweepling up much less dog hair.
I'm hoping it will have equally good results on their teeth.

So don't be discouraged, just know that here is a resource for what I
wouldn't necessarily call problems, but perhaps glitches or part of the
learning curve.

again, stephany

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9a. Re: All these non-problems
Posted by: "temy1102" tammy.a.jp@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:08 pm ((PDT))

from what i've learned from the wonderful people on this board and
other varied sources, the mucus is a protective lining produced by the
intestines. i think it happens during the switch because they are not
used to the new food. slippery elm soothes the intestines, and you
can buy it at vitamin and health stores. i buy it in capsule form and
sprinkle it onto some ground meat i keep handy just for giving
medicine and the like.

tammy

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10a. Re: Costs of Raw Feeding
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:08 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cherie Ferebee
<oceanbaylabradors@...> wrote:
> I was just sitting here writing down how much meat (based on th
> 2-3% of body weight) for each of my six dogs. I would end
> up using 11 pounds of food daily. Thats 77 lbs per week!!!

The problem with newbie raw feeders and soon to be raw feeders is
that they spend too much time thinking. :) I don't have a clue how
much I feed my two Danes weightwise. I know it costs me about $50
to $75/MONTH to feed them raw. I get lots of cheap stuff. Anywere
from free from friends cleaning out freezers, to 25 cents/lb for
chicken backs to 43 cents/lb for turkey necks to around 80 cents/lb
for beef heart up to $1/lb for other meats. Sometimes I go up to $3
or $4/lb stuff because the majoirty of what I feed is so cheap. My
dogs have eaten $18/lb filet mignon but for the most part its less
than $75/month to feed them.

Don't expect to do this good in the beginning. It takes several
months to learn how to shop for your dogs.

I feed twice a day and have never fasted my dogs one time in 4 1/2
years of raw feeding.

I wouldn't want to feed deer bladder or intestines to my dogs but
would feed anything else that came of of a deer. It probably
wouldn't hurt them to feed that but I choose not to.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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11a. Re: chicken skin and oil
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:14 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/2/2007 11:21:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gwilken@alamedanet.net writes:

Your whippet may be fine, and your vet and you just accustomed to
bloated kibble dogs. I'm no whippet expert, but the healthiest
sighthounds I've seen who eat raw are VERY lean and hard compared to
their kibble-fed brethren.

****i seem to have missed the beginning of this thread.. sorry.

Whippets are supposed to be VERY lean and the last 3 rib bones are supposed
to show.. that is when they are healthiest..

Is that the issue? i'm sure i missed something..

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12. Good news about raw feeding
Posted by: "v_rod_or" v_rod_or@yahoo.com v_rod_or
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 2:48 pm ((PDT))

Our nine-year-old Dalmatian, Spike, is doing just fine. He's been on
raw for a few months now. His coat is looking good. The rash that
we'd wrestled with for a few years during his dog food days is 90%
healed. He's having no problems with food coming in or going out.
And, even though he is getting older, he seems as fit and energetic as
ever.

A couple of weeks ago Spike was having trouble keeping food down, and
I worried that it might have been related to something raw I fed him -
but I followed the advice of several folks here and started him back
on just chicken breasts for a couple of days, then started adding
liver, beef, etc. back to his diet. We appreciate the good advice and
he's doing fine.

Raw feeding hasn't been as complicated as I feared it might be.
Spike's staples are chicken quarters, beef shanks (he can't eat the
bones, but loves the meat and marrow) and pork, mostly boneless. I
buy a package of some kind of liver, heart, or kidneys every 4-5 days
and add some to his meals. Once in a while I get him something else,
like fish or some meaty pork neckbones, just for variety. When I buy
meat for myself, he gets a piece of whatever it is...raw, of course.

My significant other was raised vegetarian so I do most of the
shopping and handling of Spike's food - but it's not a big deal. I
just buy his food when I buy my own.

Thanks again to everybody who contributes here. The changes in
Spike's health are mostly subtle, but the enjoyment he takes from his
meals is not - I don't recall him ever prancing around in anticipation
of another bowlful of kibble. He is a healthy and happy dog!

Rod & Spike

Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

13. question from a new member--- male not eating
Posted by: "Jennifer" cadet972@yahoo.com cadet972
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 6:23 pm ((PDT))

I have not read all the posting from before I joined. But my altered
male refused to eat last night, I did get him to eat some chicken but
not with his normal. my girl are about a month or so from going into
heat all three. what can I due to keep him eating he can not aford a
hunger strick he one 45lbs, which is very small for a male siberian. he
mostly fur,lol. I try liver which he likes but he turn his nose up to
it. I going to try and get some rabbit from a local farm and see if
that may get him to eat. any ideal or suggestion are welcome.

Jennifer
Free Spirit kennel of va

Messages in this topic (1)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11877

There are 3 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: All these non-problems
From: deep_ocean_of_sorrow

2. stinky breath?
From: deep_ocean_of_sorrow

3. Questions? Pork bones? Coat?
From: tseiko1

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: All these non-problems
Posted by: "deep_ocean_of_sorrow" deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com deep_ocean_of_sorrow
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 3:52 am ((PDT))

my dog has that mucus wrapped poop a lot of the times. i figured that it
was from the body trying to detoxificating (is that a word? am i making
sense?) itself.

its been about a month or so now, maybe a little less, since our switch
to raw foods.

what does slippery elm bark do and where do you buy them? and can you
buy them from a petstore like petsmart? (petsmart's the closest to us,
but i'm willing to go to other stores, if my mom lets me....i'm only
15btw.)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "temy1102" <tammy.a.jp@...> wrote:
>
> Grover doesn't throw up fish anymore.
>
> Tod finally stopped having diarrhea after several months of eating
> raw. I think it lasted so long because he's an old guy.
>
> The puppies also stopped having diarrhea and mucus-wrapped poops after
> a month of raw and some slippery elm.
>

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2. stinky breath?
Posted by: "deep_ocean_of_sorrow" deep_ocean_of_sorrow@yahoo.com deep_ocean_of_sorrow
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 3:53 am ((PDT))

i give my dog raw meat and several times a week a part of a meat that
includes the bone.

my dog generally would eat the entire bone and meats, but since he has
long fur around his mouth, he gets some of the stench of raw meats
around there.

i first though that it was his breath, but its more of the "around the
mouth" (at least i think so.)

would brushing his teeth more often help? (i usually only do it once a
week, during when he's in the bath cause otherwise the toothpaste goes
everywhere around his white fur.)

or should i be just wiping it away with something? (i dont know if that
would get rid of the stench though..)

please help!

¢¼Kate

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3. Questions? Pork bones? Coat?
Posted by: "tseiko1" akei1@netsync.net tseiko1
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 5:16 am ((PDT))

I am feeding raw to 2 sibes-3 years and 4 months. The 3 year old has
a dry, brittle coat(normal thyroid)and am wondering if I should stop
chicken. Sibes get varied meat & fish diet (heavy on chicken), Salmon
oil in AM, Vit. E in PM, Seameal mineral and vitamin supplement in AM,
raw veggies in AM, couple raw eggs weekly and yogurt few times weekly.
Any help tweaking and improving would be wonderful. Next question
involves pork bones- I want to feed more pork, but so many seem just
so thick-I know about no pork chops, but what pork bones, if any, are
too big and can cause tooth damage in adults and growing puppies?
Thanks.
BJ

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11876

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: HELP! Just starting out -- they refused to eat it!!!!
From: Cynthia Brown
1b. Re: HELP! Just starting out -- they refused to eat it!!!!
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
1c. Re: HELP! Just starting out -- they refused to eat it!!!!
From: Jenny S

2a. Re: Directory for Pro-Raw Food / Holistic Vets ???
From: Ivette Casiano
2b. Re: Directory for Pro-Raw Food / Holistic Vets ???
From: Morledzep@aol.com

3a. Re: chicken skin and oil
From: doreenchui
3b. Re: chicken skin and oil
From: ginny wilken

4a. Re: red vs white vs ground vs whole
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: mucose in stool
From: costrowski75
5b. Re: mucose in stool
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: all these problems
From: costrowski75
6b. Re: all these problems
From: financialcongratulatory
6c. all these problems
From: Lori Poirier

7a. Re: Hello from a newbie.
From: costrowski75

8a. Re: Lost group info - O/T
From: costrowski75

9a. allergies?? (was - Re: Duck)
From: Katie
9b. Re: allergies?? (was - Re: Duck)
From: ginny wilken

10a. Re: How many lbs. can you fit into a standard refrigerator?
From: temy1102

11a. old dog and arthritis / cheap food / benefits of raw
From: financialcongratulatory
11b. Re: old dog and arthritis / cheap food / benefits of raw
From: Greta Hill

12a. dog eats grass
From: financialcongratulatory
12b. Re: dog eats grass
From: Morledzep@aol.com

13. All these non-problems
From: temy1102

14a. Re: May be dumb math question but...
From: Ivette Casiano

15a. Re: Costs of Raw Feeding
From: Me

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: HELP! Just starting out -- they refused to eat it!!!!
Posted by: "Cynthia Brown" temecula_lady@yahoo.com temecula_lady
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 9:04 pm ((PDT))

Jenny,

Thanks for the support ... did you cut it up for her at all?

I LOVE the doggy napkin. That is just too-too cute!!!

Cynthia

Jenny S <jenken69@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hi Cynthia
you did it just right they will quickly learn thats supper and they will come to look forward to it they are probly just a bit awed at the moment with the change . it did take a bit of time for my shiz tzu to realize thats all she was going to get and now looks forward to meals and eats it all up knowing she wont get anything else till next mealtime ,she knows when its mealtime and sits over by her towel and waits if im late with it..i felt bad at first feeling i was starving her but we are all better off now by it. As well teaching her Where she had to stay with her food, she liked to bring it into the liv room to gnaw on..ewwwww.. grossed out the family
Jenny S
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfMJXz3AvKI (doggy napkin)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L34YjdBCu8I( Fun in the pool) way to funny..

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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1b. Re: HELP! Just starting out -- they refused to eat it!!!!
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 9:09 pm ((PDT))

Cynthia,
You're doing everything just perfect, and don't give up, your dogs will love you for it. And don't let them bury the food, keep taking it away, when it becomes a toy, it means they don't like it, or they aren't hungry enough. Mine would try and bury the beef tongue, my husband swore it was moving:)
Finally it had to go byby. And mine won't do fish.
My new addition, is a Pomchi and she used to live with my Aunt before she passed. Daisy is her name. We switched her over to raw as soon as some really nice people here helped me figure out how to small it down. I have two Great danes and am used to Giant meals, not little teeny ones. It took Daisy 4 days to get the hang of raw, and the little game hens worked great. Now she does a little "halalooya Jesus" dance when I open the fridge for her little game hens (they are in a separate freezer, than the big stuff, and the dance is what my husband taught her) So, I was affraid with her little size that she might starve to, but she didn't, she would nibble on the stuff a tad, and then finally got the hole quarter hen down on the fourth night. We were so proud of our new little carnivore:) You will be too. It takes more time for dogs who have been on kibble longer than ones who weren't. My Great danes started right when we got them, and loved it.
You're doing wonderful, keep it up, and anytime you need encouragement, this is the right place for it!
Jeni, Sacto, CA
Owned, operated, and often tricked, daily, by my Zeus and Zena, and our little Daisy, the halalooya dog, and Lucky, the cat that is just lucky Daisy doesn't figure he's dinner:)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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1c. Re: HELP! Just starting out -- they refused to eat it!!!!
Posted by: "Jenny S" jenken69@shaw.ca jenken69
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 10:59 pm ((PDT))

Hi Cynthia
at first I would wac it with a cleaver to make it smaller( cause she is a dainty little lady :)) ) but learned fast that the best is just give her a chicken 1/4 or whatever I was feeding her whole..its way better for her teeth and digestion plus makes her work for it...
so many people here on this site gave me so much help and the confidence that I was doing it right and Tila is so much better for it . Biggest thing ive noticed is NO tear stains and NO horrible sour odor she used to have, if she got to close to you it was enough to make you gag ..I think it was an alegery of some kind to kibble ,grain or whatever is in that crap canned as well was bad.

The worst negative comment I got was from my 21 yr old son who informed me I was going turn her into a vicious carnivore ......... well DUHHHHHH....

:) the video is funny and so her she is a card and a spoiled brat ..
Jenny S
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfMJXz3AvKI (doggy napkin)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L34YjdBCu8I( Fun in the pool) way to funny..

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Directory for Pro-Raw Food / Holistic Vets ???
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 9:04 pm ((PDT))

"Here's a link to the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association:
http://www.holistic vetlist.com/

They have a search function on that page that allows you to search for
holistic vets "

Laurie, thank you so much for this. I had been searching with no luck, I guess I didn't know how to search well. I had almost lost hope that there were any holistic vets in Florida. Our vet just recommends Science Diet <<yuk>>
Ivette

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Directory for Pro-Raw Food / Holistic Vets ???
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 10:41 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/2/2007 1:41:29 PM Pacific Standard Time,
temecula_lady@yahoo.com writes:

Am I just dreaming, or does such a directory / website / referral network
actually exist?

Cynthia,

Keep dreaming..

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: chicken skin and oil
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 9:08 pm ((PDT))

>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Dear Ginny
Thanks for the info.
My vet told me that my whippet looks like he have enough protein but
his ribs seems to be showing abit. So he told me to give him some
chicken skin to give him some fats and it's good for his coat.. That's
why I thought better check it out here.
Doreen

Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: chicken skin and oil
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 12:20 am ((PDT))

On Aug 2, 2007, at 8:03 PM, doreenchui wrote:

>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
> Dear Ginny
> Thanks for the info.
> My vet told me that my whippet looks like he have enough protein but
> his ribs seems to be showing abit. So he told me to give him some
> chicken skin to give him some fats and it's good for his coat.. That's
> why I thought better check it out here.
> Doreen

Your whippet may be fine, and your vet and you just accustomed to
bloated kibble dogs. I'm no whippet expert, but the healthiest
sighthounds I've seen who eat raw are VERY lean and hard compared to
their kibble-fed brethren.

Fat generally is "good for coats", but you already feed a varied raw
diet, so I would go ahead and rely on the natural fat on the animals
you're feeding. If he stays lean on more food, or self-regulates,
well, you have no problem. If he packs on a bit of fat, you may wish
to cut back. But make sure you are a good judge of what is optimal
for him, appearance-wise, first, and do question your vet's
credentials in this matter - not to his face, of course.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: red vs white vs ground vs whole
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 9:41 pm ((PDT))

"lhmcmaken" <lhmcmaken@...> wrote:
what is the best
> ratio of chicken to beef to pork to fish for dogs?
*****
Some, some and some. I think chicken is less important than its high
visibility warrants but that doesn't mean don't feed it. Beef is but
one of several red meat options and some of those options--lamb and
goat for example--may have more to offer than beef. Fish is useful for
protein variety but fish is not mandatory. Neither are chicken or
beef, for that matter! Variety is what counts; do the best you can.

and is there any
> organ meat besides liver that is a must do?
*****
No. But as with muscle meat, variety is a co-conspirator with
nutrition. Keep your eyes peeled for opportunity, you just never know
when something will show up.

and is ground meat
> acceptable?
******
As part of a varied diet, sure. By itself, not so much. Certainly if
you can find it cheapcheap and it adds protein variety to the menu you
should use it.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: mucose in stool
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 9:47 pm ((PDT))

"swilken61" <powrfemme@...> wrote:
This mucosy stool
> came after a lamb meal. The stool was lighter in color, I've
noticed
> this before with lamb. The first time, it seemed encased in mucous,
the
> second time, less mucose and it seemed mixed in.
>
> Any ideas why this might happen and what adjustment I should make?
*****
It means something in the meal irritated the lower digestive system
and was promply put in its place and shuffled out. I think this is
an appropriate response to an annoyance; who would want to have a
bothersome annoyance just hanging around making everyone
uncomfortable? Not I.

FWIW, I fed my adult dogs (rawfed since 2000) lamb breasts last week
and my goodness gracious one of them deposited a stool that was
exactly what you describe, complete with mucus and lighter color. I
don't know which one did and since none of them were acting
distressed, I just scooped it up and tossed it.

Unless there are accompanying signs of digestive discomfort, I'd say
ain't no big deal.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: mucose in stool
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 9:53 pm ((PDT))

"Sonja" <ladyver@...> wrote:
>
> Lamb is really really rich....when I gave lamb to my dog (waaayyy to
early) we got explosive bloody diarrhea.
*****
"Rich" is the word one uses to describe why a meal went south, after it
went south. Yes, lamb is quite fatty and yes, a dog unaccustomed to a
high fat meal may respond as you describe. A dog may also respond, um,
moistly to too much food, or too much new food.

These are all better evaluations of the circumstances leading up to the
messy aftermath; saying "too rich" is as ambiguous as saying "upset
tummy."

Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: all these problems
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 9:55 pm ((PDT))

"Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...> wrote:
> Keep in mind, people post when they're having problems, for help. You
> rarely have people logging in daily to say "great stools, good coat,
> everything's great."
>
*****
Hey, do you think it's time to have another "don't nobody bring me no
bad news" day? Sounds like we might need a dose of uneventful.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (24)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: all these problems
Posted by: "financialcongratulatory" jess.hamway@gmail.com financialcongratulatory
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 10:56 pm ((PDT))

Hi Ty,

Just want to say that I haven't had any of those problems and my dog
has been doing great since day one. His skin is much better (he used
to get frequent hot spots and allergies), teeth are better, poops way
less frequently (he was going 4 times a day, now goes once a day),
drinks less water (he used to drink a ton from the kibble), and
dropped weight quickly (he needed to). He also didn't have any
digestive upsets when I switched him cold turkey, and he just loves it.

All dogs are different though, I would watch him closely and make sure
he adjusts. I suggest starting with frozen chicken thighs, those seem
to be very digestible. And I wouldn't feed both kibble and raw, just
switch over because they are digested at different rates.

Jessica

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "blacty" <Ty@...> wrote:
>
> I am getting a little concerned about all these problems I keep
seeing
> in these posts. I am on the verge of converting to raw when I run
out
> of the last few feeding of kibble, but at the same time am getting
> concerned about all these health problems people are having with
their
> dogs. Mucose in stool-looks like starving, hair loss, diarraha! How
> common is all of this. Am I going to have health problems to work
out
> in the beginning or are these things just rare??
>
> Ty
>

Messages in this topic (24)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. all these problems
Posted by: "Lori Poirier" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 3:51 am ((PDT))

I, too, had concerns, when I first joined this list, because a lot of the posts seemed pretty extreme. I have always fed my dogs mostly real food, some cooked and some raw...just because it seemed healthier than commercial. Then I read posts about how bad it was to mix diets, how commercial food was practically poison...how this or that method was WRONG, etc. Made it sound both DIFFICULT, potentially dangerous...even though there would be great benefits, if you got it right. My head was reeling, and it almost felt like I had landed in some kind of a cult, with language I didn't understand, problems I had never heard of, etc.

In spite of the mixed messages, and some extreme posts, I recently switched from partially raw, to almost entirely raw, and ya know what?...

NO PROBLEMS!

EASY!!!

HEALTHY DOG!

HAPPY DOG!

HAPPY PET OWNER!!!

Happy because in addition to knowing this is better for my dog, I am relaxed enough about it not to freak out if my methods are not up to the purists' standards. I don't obsess over it, but know that a diet that is closer to the animal's natural food is better than a processed diet.

I am doing it all wrong according to the purists...cuz I don't freak out or feel guilty if I feed list-banned substances now and then, when our schedule is crazy.

Go with real food, the natural raw diet, as much as you can for your lifestyle...and don't sweat the small stuff. Dogs have survived--and thrived--for many, many years, on a prey and scavenging model. Your dog will probably do just fine, too. Processed food causes more problems than the real deal, any day.

Lori

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (24)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Hello from a newbie.
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 10:24 pm ((PDT))

"rebecca_rogge" <rebecca_rogge@...> wrote:
>> FYI: Maybe you don't have any control over this, but there are
> advertisements for Purina and other "kibble" brands at the top of
> this page. If you scroll over one ad, it has people saying how much
> it helped their cat or dog. Don't you think that is not right
since
> this site reveals the problems of commercial dog food? Just thought
> you'd want to look into it. It doesn't bother me, but someone else
> might be like... "HMMM".
*****
No we don't have control over what Yahoo fills its ad space with;
because of it though we are able to use this cyberspace for free.

I figure it's like newspaper or radio or TV advertising--part of the
free speech process. If ya own the medium, you can put whatever you
want on it. You don't own it, you compromise or leave.

I think it's funny, myself. I see the ProPlan banner and I say oh,
right, sure, you bet.
Chris O
Mod Team

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Lost group info - O/T
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 10:42 pm ((PDT))

"Me" <earthmoontide@...> wrote:
>
> Hi - I've lost the details of a yahoo group I used to belong to. It
> was a group that discussed dangers of immunising, and I need to ask
> some advice. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
*****
Here are two to consider:
jstsayno2vaccs@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: jstsayno2vaccs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: jstsayno2vaccs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

TruthAboutVaccines@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: TruthAboutVaccines-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: TruthAboutVaccines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

9a. allergies?? (was - Re: Duck)
Posted by: "Katie" kcrockett@mac.com kcrockettla7
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 10:55 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

thanks for the feedback . . . but i'm a little lost . . . you say I can maybe put of "dealing
with the disease for a little while" - what kind of disease are you referring to??

...katie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, ginny wilken <gwilken@...> wrote:
>
>
> Okay.... It is highly unlikely that these are true food allergies,
> and for that reason they should do very well on the same proteins raw
> and unprocessed. What they may have is chronic disease from previous
> insults - which is to say their immune systems are overly reactive.
> If, and maybe even not if, you can find foods that do not make them
> itch, you can put off dealing with the disease within for a while.
> But it will continue to cause problems for them. You might wish to do
> some reading on homeopathy and how it works to help the body readjust
> itself after the insults of poor food and drugs. In the meantime,
> remember that their "allergies" are not to foods, really, but the
> foods are just the triggers. That's why they keep changing, because
> it doesn't really matter to the body, which will show symptoms
> paradoxically no matter what gyrations you go through with the diet.
>
> If it's from the food, they will stop itching. If they don't stop
> itching, it's a sign to you to go beyond diet. Whatever you do, do
> not use steroids or other drugs like antihistamines. These will
> really set them back.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (20)
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9b. Re: allergies?? (was - Re: Duck)
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 11:47 pm ((PDT))

On Aug 2, 2007, at 9:47 PM, Katie wrote:

> ***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***
>
>
>
>
> thanks for the feedback . . . but i'm a little lost . . . you say I
> can maybe put of "dealing
> with the disease for a little while" - what kind of disease are you
> referring to??
>
> ...katie

Homeopathy works on the premise that there is only one big collective
chronic "dis-ease", or dysfunction, if you will, of the body and mind
as a whole. This notion goes way back to the ancient Greeks and
before, and is the foundation of all medicine, even the allopathic
stuff, which has gotten rather full of itself in the last few hundred
years. That one big disease causes all of the other symptoms we see,
which are what western medicine calls diseases or illnesses. Rather
than fighting off and suppressing the symptoms we see with drugs and
goops, homeopathy show the body how to retune itself and stop showing
the symptoms.

In your dog's case, she has been made to be digestively sensitive
because her body, through inheritance or character, has a
predilection to show its weakness in the digestive tract. That
predilection has been stirred to express itself by something like,
oh, say, distemper vaccine, or ivermectin, or parvo vaccine, and so
she shows the systemic distress through it. But it's not the disease
itself, just a symptom of what's wrong with her. There will be others
- other "events", other "illnesses" - as time goes by, all related to
her systemic weakness. That is her chronic disease, and it will color
her whole life. An excellent homeopath can analyze all her collective
symptoms and predilections, and advise a homeopathic remedy which
will excite her body to respond and cure itself.

Boy, sure sounds like hocus-pocus sometimes, but when you think about
it, it makes sense. When people get headaches or allergies all the
time, they are not separate events; it's easy to see that they are
somehow weak and vulnerable. That vulnerability is not cast in stone,
and we and our dogs need not die of all the big and little symptoms
it generates.

Hope that helps some. If you need more, ask, and I'll send some
links. In the meantime, feed her well, and don't worry.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (20)
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10a. Re: How many lbs. can you fit into a standard refrigerator?
Posted by: "temy1102" tammy.a.jp@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 10:58 pm ((PDT))

I did! 100+ pounds!! I'm a little scared.... but excited. We also
have a little chest fridge that keeps thing just barely above frozen,
so I figure what doesn't fit can go in there. And if I'm left with
piles of rapidly defrosting raw meat, well then, it's an emergency
situation and I will just HAVE to buy one of those coveted chest freezers!

Thanks for the advice!

Tammy & Grover (it felt weird using correct punctuation for once.)

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. old dog and arthritis / cheap food / benefits of raw
Posted by: "financialcongratulatory" jess.hamway@gmail.com financialcongratulatory
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 10:58 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone!

I'm just wondering what the best diet is to help with arthritis? I've
been giving my sheperd mix supplements with glucosamine, chondroitin
and MSM and have yet to see any benefits, although it's only been a
month. Any ideas?

Also I mostly feed my dog whole chicken and ground beef, as those are
the most inexpensive food sources I can find. Now and then I'll give
him lamb if I see a good price, and I give him small bits of liver a
few times a week. Does that sound adequate? And where do you go to get
such good prices? It seems like I've been spending way too much on his
food, maybe about $25 a week.

Also my dog is around 70 pounds, how many pouds should I be feeding
him? I usually just give him one big chunk of food a day, and he seems
to be satisfied. He's not as skinny as I would like, although he did
lose a lot once I put him on raw, but it's really hard to get those
last few pounds off.

Lastly, I saw someone post about worries so I would like to say a few
good things about the raw diet. My dog seems to be the perfect
candidate... whereas whenever I switched his kibble food he would be
sick without question, when I switched him over to raw cold turkey he
didn't have any digestive upsets. One issue was vomiting because he
would eat so fast, but freezing took care of that and he doesn't get
sick anymore even if it's not frozen. He also took to it immediately
and absolutely loved it, I've heard some dogs take a while to adjust.
His teeth look marvelous and the weight came right off. He also had a
bald spot on his nose where his skin was peeling and that cleared
right up within one month. He also doesn't have any skin problems or
urinary infections anymore, which is a great relief. Skin problems
(frequent hot spots, mostly) was the biggest issue when he was on
kibble. Also when he was on kibble he pooped CONSTANTLY, it was
ridiculous, he would basically poop every time you walked him -
sometimes 4 times a day! Now he goes once a day, although lately it's
been even less, I'm not sure why although he hasn't been getting as
much bone which might be one reason. Now that he's on it and I see how
easy it is, I don't think I'll ever go back to kibble!

Thanks so much everyone.

Jessica and Toby

Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: old dog and arthritis / cheap food / benefits of raw
Posted by: "Greta Hill" GretaHill@aol.com sunstate23
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 3:50 am ((PDT))

I've been giving my sheperd mix supplements with glucosamine,
chondroitin and MSM and have yet to see any benefits, although it's
only been a month. Any ideas? >>

The two arthritic dogs I've switched to raw showed improvements around
2-3 months. The first girl was almost 12 and retained that improvement
the rest of her life. The second girl was 6 when I got her and switched
her to raw, and while the biggest improvement was noticeable at that 2-
3 month mark, she has continued to improve over the last two years :)
She also gets cosequin, chiropractic adjustments, daily exercise and is
kept at a lean weight.

HTH!

Greta

Messages in this topic (2)
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12a. dog eats grass
Posted by: "financialcongratulatory" jess.hamway@gmail.com financialcongratulatory
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 10:58 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER TO SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

Hey again,
My dog grazes like a cow whenever he's in the yard, and has done so
ever since he was a pup. Anyone know what's up with that?

Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: dog eats grass
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 11:49 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/2/2007 9:59:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jess.hamway@gmail.com writes:

My dog grazes like a cow whenever he's in the yard, and has done so
ever since he was a pup. Anyone know what's up with that?

***some dogs graze, some don't..

some dogs throw up after grazing.. some don't.
some dogs that graze poop brown grass.. some don't.

it's that simple.
Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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13. All these non-problems
Posted by: "temy1102" tammy.a.jp@gmail.com temy1102
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 11:01 pm ((PDT))

Grover doesn't throw up fish anymore.

Tod finally stopped having diarrhea after several months of eating
raw. I think it lasted so long because he's an old guy.

The puppies also stopped having diarrhea and mucus-wrapped poops after
a month of raw and some slippery elm.

Tod has been going up and down stairs this week for the first time in
years!

Grover and I were taking a nap today and I think she farted in my
mouth. :(

The girl puppy has stopped eating only every other day, and actually
SCARFS her food down when I put it in front of her! It really helped
when I stopped feeding them twice a day.

The fatty boy puppy gagged down his food, puked it up, and ate it
again. I didn't even raise an eyebrow.

Yes. At the risk of tempting fate, I want to let any concerned
newbies know that I have no problems right now. Any problems I had
just took a little tinkering, sometimes a lot of time, and a lot of
judicial "wait and see."

Tammy & Grover

Messages in this topic (1)
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14a. Re: May be dumb math question but...
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2007 11:02 pm ((PDT))

"Eventually you may find
that you're feeding a couple ginormous meals, and most days he doesn't
eat (or barely eats). Many dogs seem to find this more satisfying, and
obsess less about food when fed this way."

I get it. Let him eat the amount he wants and he'll regulate himself. Well, I'm the provider so I guess I'll give him what we have at the moment and make sure he gets enough for the week. I'm not going to give him the chance to overeat as he'll probably vomit afterwards. It's like people who have eating disorders.

Ivette

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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15a. Re: Costs of Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Me" earthmoontide@yahoo.com.au earthmoontide
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2007 3:50 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cherie Ferebee
<oceanbaylabradors@...> wrote:
>
<ship> Any info would be greatly apreciated!!
>
> Thanks BUnches!
> Cherie

My local butcher does a rough mince of chicken carcass for $1.50AUS
per kg, and my local supermarket sells intact chicken carcasses for
$1.99AUS kg.

What I like about it, is I know the meat is 'clean' without worms or
ground tumours, or any nasty bits, as it's the leftovers from human
grade meat.

Cheers,
Caz.

Messages in this topic (3)
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