[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11742

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. RMB's during a pregnancy
From: Perri Eskew
1b. RMB pregnancy colleague
From: Caren OConnor
1c. Re: RMB's during a pregnancy
From: Alan & Andrea Southern

2a. Re: Starting out
From: joan furtiere

3a. Re: diabetes insipidus
From: tobyfwest

4a. Re: poop on raw
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

5a. Re: Frogs?
From: Bumble1994@aol.com
5b. Re: Frogs?
From: Bearhair

6.1. Re: itchy dog
From: shefy gupta

7a. enough beef??
From: Terri Leist
7b. Re: enough beef??
From: costrowski75

8. HELP ME MR WIZARD :)
From: alliecaracleo

9a. Re: WOW thanks for all the great help...
From: Catherine

10a. Re: Taylor Pond Farms Was: What do you stock your freezer with?
From: Jessie

11. Newbie with question about parts
From: pelirojita

12a. Re: Standard Poodle Puppy 9weeks
From: Alan & Andrea Southern

13a. Chicken & Parts is Parts
From: mob1043
13b. Re: Chicken & Parts is Parts
From: magolin0328

14a. are the chickens at risk???
From: carolyn arnold
14b. Re: are the chickens at risk???
From: ginny wilken

15. Help Please: Stool Composition
From: cepriz

16a. Support for criticism
From: teampoodle
16b. Re: Support for criticism
From: Laurie Swanson
16c. Re: Support for criticism
From: ginny wilken

17a. Re: Kidney and heart
From: costrowski75

Messages
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1a. RMB's during a pregnancy
Posted by: "Perri Eskew" pdsq@sbcglobal.net sqbullys3
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:23 pm ((PDT))

I want to Thank everyone that responded to my post.
I will continue to feed the way I am and cut back the bone in the last
part of her pregnancy.
Perri

Messages in this topic (8)
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1b. RMB pregnancy colleague
Posted by: "Caren OConnor" cavkist@yahoo.com cavkist
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:25 pm ((PDT))

Perri -
I also have a girl, raw fed from puppyhood, who is pregnant. Her breeder is freakin' out because of my feeding practices. She says the unborn puppies are at risk of getting salmonella poisioning and can die.
I'm NOT buying that and WILL NOT switch. I'm just trying to be mindful of the need for lots of good meat and organs and watching the bones. Her poops are dark and loosely formed. Good luck with your raw fed pregnant girl and know that you're in good company. Hang tough.
Caren O'Connor
Nansemond Cavaliers

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Messages in this topic (8)
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1c. Re: RMB's during a pregnancy
Posted by: "Alan & Andrea Southern" wykham@sa.chariot.net.au seawyndriana
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:06 pm ((PDT))

We have feed RMB's to our Standard Poodles for 6 pregnancies and never added calcium and have had no problems with birthing, same with the cats.There is enough calcium in the bones that they are eating..

Alan & Andrea
KITNKABOODLE BURMESE
WYKHAM BRITISH SHORTHAIR
QUINIVA STANDARD POODLES

http://users.chariot.net.au/~wykham

Aldinga Beach
South Australia
Australia

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Messages in this topic (8)
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2a. Re: Starting out
Posted by: "joan furtiere" jfurtiere@yahoo.com.au jfurtiere
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:23 pm ((PDT))

I could not believe the response I have received from Rawfeeding group I opened my emails this morning and there were 53 there!.Which was indeed very helpful to say the least..I will start "Chase" on the diet as of today with the hope it may help her.I will keep you informed
Once again thank you all
Cheers Joan and Chase....woof woof

Cris Milam <cmilam@comcast.net> wrote: Welcome Joan,

You will find that there are lots of fellow greyhound owners on the list.
We have the best dogs in the world! Of course, it is fine with me if
everybody else also has the best dog in the world because every dog should
be.

Chase sounds to me like she has either an allergy or a mild dietetic
deficiency or both. As you are finding out, greys can be a bit different
than other dogs. Without subcutaneous fat to store the nasties, toxins and
allergens continue to circulate in a grey's bloodstream and can create more
problems than other breeds have.

You could try giving Chase a dose of Benedryl just to see if the problem is
an allergic reaction. If she gets better, it is time to get rid of the
allergen. If she has no change, a visit to the vet might be in order.
Please note that I am not suggesting you put Chase on more that one dose of
Benedryl; it is only for diagnostic purposes.

The easiest thing you can do is to go ahead and move her to a full raw diet
that has only one protein in it. Please ditch the veggies, rice, pasta and
dry food. She doesn't need them and they can cause havoc with an allergic
dog. I know she has been eating a variety of meats, but by feeding one at a
time you can find out if she has an allergy to one of them. She probably
doesn't, but being systematic from the beginning will keep you from having
to backtrack later if something comes up. You can begin immediately.

If you are feeding chicken you could feed eggs, but I would wait on the eggs
just because of possible intestinal upset. The cheese should be dropped.
She may be allergic to dairy even in small amounts. If you are using it in
small amounts as a training treat, you could reintroduce it later and find
out then if it is causing a problem.

As for the dietetic deficiency..... Well, before I knew better, my first
grey was kibble fed and daily doses of Missing Link were needed to keep
similar symptoms to Chase's at bay. My second grey is raw fed, and the
Missing Link is just taking up precious freezer space!

Hope to hear more form you and Chase.

Cris M and Duncan

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Messages in this topic (18)
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3a. Re: diabetes insipidus
Posted by: "tobyfwest" tobyfwest@cox.net tobyfwest
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:23 pm ((PDT))

Apparently the vet tried 1 medication while the dog was there and it
didn't work and all of the other meds do the same thing and won't work
either. I know, I know, just repeating what my friend told me. This
is all totally OT, so if anyone on the list feeds raw to a dog this
with condition I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks again,
Carolyn

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tobyfwest" <tobyfwest@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the link. I sent it to my friend. She didn't say the vet
> offered any treatment at all. >

Messages in this topic (9)
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4a. Re: poop on raw
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:25 pm ((PDT))

Sheryl,
Some of us find stepping on the poop and having it go to dust kind of fun, you should try it:) But if you don't like doing that you can hose it down, once it is white, it should easily hose away, or put a sprinkler on it. But sometimes it doesn't always turn white, because just like us humans, what we don't need, our bodies get rid of, and we poop it out, and it doesn't turn white, and it needs to be scooped away, but I have never had a problem with rats going after the poop in the yard. I have a compost pile, and that takes care of that.
Usually the rats go after tastier food, like the bird seed, or the dog food kibble, that used to be in the garage. Now the birdseed is in tubs and no rats. I never noticed rats at the seed anyway, they were always after the kibble, that should tell us something! Now if we just had a Hawk like that one lady, we'd have no poop problems, ever:) Where are the hawks when you need them?!
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (9)
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5a. Re: Frogs?
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:24 pm ((PDT))

I kept seeing frog legs in the grocery seafood section and, never having
eaten a frog leg myself, I kept wondering about them. Are they an Omega 3
source?

Early this week I bought 2 sets and separated them into 2 legs each, fixed
one for me and gave the other 3 to the 3 cats. They seemed to like theirs
better than I liked mine. I think we'll just stick to catfish and salmon, and
sardines when I can find them :)

Lynda

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: Frogs?
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:26 pm ((PDT))

Lynda wrote:

>Early this week I bought 2 sets and separated them into 2 legs each, fixed
>one for me and gave the other 3 to the 3 cats. They seemed to like theirs
>better than I liked mine. I think we'll just stick to catfish and salmon, and
>sardines when I can find them :)

You'll like them better if you broil them in butter and garlic.

Here's the nutritional content:
>http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c220p.html

Lora
Evanston, IL

Messages in this topic (5)
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6.1. Re: itchy dog
Posted by: "shefy gupta" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:25 pm ((PDT))

i don't have much expereince in this but maybe feed one protein for a few weeks and see how she does. snowy also got hotspots recently so i've been searching online for something 'nautral' to help him and found some good review for a homeopathic remedy on onlynaturalpet.com... i don't know which one it is exactly but you'll find it's the only one with like 5 good reviews...

best
shefy and snowy

Laurie <lhsearch1@verizon.net> wrote:
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" wrote:
>

> Um, exactly what are you feeding, how much and when?

I generally feed her chicken parts, pork, fish (weekly), small amounts
of liver, kidney, heart, occasionally egg. She eats late in the
afternoon daily. We have no new carpet or other changes in the house;
she's been itchy since she was a pup and is now 5 1/2 yrs. old. It's
all year long, not seasonal. Thanks in advance for your help!

Laurie

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Messages in this topic (29)
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7a. enough beef??
Posted by: "Terri Leist" qahri@sbcglobal.net qahri
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:03 pm ((PDT))

I know that I need to add more beef & variety in both of my girls diet; so I hit a huge score at the butcher Tuesday. I got 7 tongues & 4 hearts, for $11.00 total. Are those beef parts enough muscle meat to qualify? I also have kidney & liver too that are beef. The main part of their diet is pork & chicken, so I am so thrilled to get so much beef, now I just hope it's enough.

Terri & the Raw Fed-"Muttly Crew" Kadin & Lilly
2 more dogs saved from the Kibble disaster, see how:

www.rawfeddogs.net

www.rawfed.com

www.rawmeatybones.com

Over exposure to the SON; actually PREVENTS burning!!

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Messages in this topic (2)
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7b. Re: enough beef??
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:36 pm ((PDT))

Terri Leist <qahri@...> wrote:
>
> I know that I need to add more beef & variety in both of my girls
diet; so I hit a huge score at the butcher Tuesday. I got 7 tongues
& 4 hearts, for $11.00 total. Are those beef parts enough muscle
meat to qualify?
*****
They BOTH qualify as meat so you done good! Both are muscles.

I also have kidney & liver too that are beef.
*****
But these are organs, and kidney and liver from chicken fill the bill
just as well as beef kidney and liver do. It's nice to be able to
offer critter variety in the organs one feeds, but not as essential
as getting muscle meal variety into them. Never fear though, beef
liver and kidney are fine additions to the menu.

The main part of their diet is pork & chicken, so I am so thrilled
to get so much beef, now I just hope it's enough.
*****
Enough for now, yes indeed. And certainly enough to last for a
while. Keep looking. You just never know what you'll find.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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8. HELP ME MR WIZARD :)
Posted by: "alliecaracleo" alliecaracleo@yahoo.com alliecaracleo
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:05 pm ((PDT))

Ok here is the lowdown. two cats on raw for about 2 weeks. my other bb
wont budge so she is on evo kibble. no grain. when other two hear her
eating she is a real grazer eating a tag at a time, they come running
wherever they are. radar sensory !!!! i feel bad for them since
caramia is eating k still and she is verrrrrrrrrry resistant. offer
raw to smell etc.. she held out for 24hrs when i knew i had to feed.

how do i switch her over? i tried canned, ground and no budge. i try
to feed her in other rooms but other two come running.

have a great weekend everyone
denise

Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Re: WOW thanks for all the great help...
Posted by: "Catherine" eraser426@hotmail.com nihilumabesse
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:05 pm ((PDT))

Thank you all for your responses. I am sorry about my rudeness just
having a bad week and the comments at the dog park just about took the
cake for me. I've had at least 10 people tell me how thin she is in
the last couple weeks. Granted that those people's dogs are way fat. I
know she's thin but she is not emaciated. She's actually lost weight
in the last month and a half. She is a year and a half old. I put her
on the scale every couple weeks. I put her on yesterday and she was
down to 40lbs. She has been as heavy as 45 and that was when she first
came home to me in February. She was thin then. I can tell the
difference between a fat dog, a thin dog and those in proper weight. I
don't want her to be fat, I just don't know what to do when I see hip
bones and can feel her spine and ribs. To look at her it's difficult
to tell her weight because she's in a full continental clip and with
all the hair she looks fine. I appreciate all of your suggestions, and
I will try to add fattier foods. I don't ever remove skin or fat from
what she eats because I figure she needs all she can get. I've tried
giving her "other things" like yogurt, cottage cheese, etc... but all
she does is throw them up on my floor. She's got no health problems,
no parasites or worms. She acts like she always has happy, energetic
dog. She had a full blood panel when I got her in February. Everything
was normal including her thyroid. She does not shed hardly at all
being a poodle and if she did I would notice as she gets brushed
daily. Loose stools only occur with her when she eats something super
fatty or when she has her organs, which don't make up much of her
diet, she eats a pretty balanced 80/10/10. Again thank you for your
suggestions and I apologize for my rudeness, I'm concerned and she is
the first raw fed dog I've had.
One last question in this long long post... Her breeder was feeding
her pulped vegetables along with mostly chicken, tripe and ground
beef. She didn't feed much organ meat, if any and she fed very bony
meals from what she told me. I cut out all vegetables and added other
meats, organs, and a lot less bone when I brought her home. Would her
lack of proper feeding while growing have anything to do with trouble
putting on weight?

Thank you all again.

Catherine and Olivia

Messages in this topic (14)
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10a. Re: Taylor Pond Farms Was: What do you stock your freezer with?
Posted by: "Jessie" O_snobunnie_O@hotmail.com osnobunnieo
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:06 pm ((PDT))

I'm having mixed emotions with Taylor Pond Farms. Since I live in
South Carolina, I have them ship tripe (the only thing I've ordered)
and have only placed two orders with them.

In general, I LOVE the product and can't find it locally or even have
it shipped cheaper than from TPF. However, its almost not worth the
trouble. My first order took several weeks to ship and I couldn't
get in contact with anyone about the order. Finally got an email
like the day before I got my shipment apologizing... they had run out
of product, then got it and ran out of containers or something along
those lines. For the trouble he threw in a few bags of goodies
(freeze dried chicken feet, beef lung and lamb lung).

I had only ordered a few pounds and wasn't home when it arrived so
someone unpacked it for me... said the packing was really crappy but
it was still fairly cold. Ok.

So I decide to go for the 40lb order of tripe to save on shipping and
last me a while. Still... waiting and waiting for shipment. It
finally ships out on a Tuesday with an expected arrival on Thursday.
Come Saturday the tracking still listed the package as sitting in
Atlanta. Monday afternoon I come home to a soggy rotten package that
has leaked all over my front porch. And hot tripe on a summer's day
is NOT what I wanted to come home to. There were four plastic
containers that were all broken. They were inside of a plastic trash
bag that was ripped so all the juice was leaking out into (and
through) the cardboard box. A few pieces of styrofoam lined the box
and no evidence of cold packs (although he said he uses dry ice and
it just dissapates as its used up). There was nothing on the package
to indicate that it needed to be kept cold either.

Now, he says the issues is being resolved with DHL (shipper) and the
package was never to go to Atlanta. DHL apologized because the
package should have never been dropped off in that condition (but I
can only assume if they guy had it in his truck he wanted it out
ASAP). I told him I was unsure if I even wanted to try again unless
he could do a much better job packing and would include it in a solid
styrofoam cooler at the least.

Got a shipping confirmation from Taylor Pond Farms (ordered through
eBay) last Thursday saying it shipped... I figured I'd have another
weekend disaster. By the weekend I had heard nothing. Emailed him
again. Monday I get a response saying they *will* be shipping me a
new order... responded that I was confused about if and when the
package would go out and when I could expect it. I've heard nothing
since.

I think the orginial order was paid for on May 21st and I'm still
waiting on my product.

Like I said at the beginning... I like what he has to offer. But its
almost not worth my trouble. But if you can pick up locally by all
means go for it. I really want nothing but good things to say about
them and if we can get over the shipping issue I'll be fine. I
really want to continue buying from them but... you can see my
problem.

Jessie

Messages in this topic (3)
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11. Newbie with question about parts
Posted by: "pelirojita" kerrymurray7@gmail.com pelirojita
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:06 pm ((PDT))

Hello,

I've been lurking for a few days now and have spent hours in the
archives, though every search I enter yields thousands of messages
(this group is prolific!). I have learned a ton and really appreciate
all of the information here. I have two questions:

1 - I'm happily vegetarian and incredibly squeamish about handling
this raw food. I searched the archives for what other vegetarians are
doing to cope/minimize the repulsive part, and found many posts
referencing vegetarians but few authored by vegetarians - is this
issue (vegs who feed raw) being addressed here or on Rawchat or is
there another forum someone could point me to? I would appreciate any
feedback, offlist replies are fine.

2 - I am part of a local Community Supported Agriculture (CSA - great
way to meet local farmers!) group. Through various members and local
farmers our group also gets shares of beefalo (cross between cow and
buffalo, supposedly yielding very lean beef), organic free-range
chicken and turkeys, as well as the occasional lamb or goat. I have
normally avoided the meat offers altogether but now they look
intriguing. I am going to guess that these suppliers have various
parts left over after slaughter and would be willing to wrap and ship
them to me with the regular group shipments. I find this option very
appealing because I became a vegetarian first and foremost because I
did not want to support the horrific practices of factory farming in
this country. What should I ask for when I contact these local
farmers? I was thinking:

- turkey and chicken necks
- would I want the feet too?
- Are the heads useful? (both my dogs are powerful and enthusiastic
chewers - are these good things to chew on?)
- Would the organs be left over or are they part of the "giblets"?
- Beyond the large weight-bearing bones of the beefalo, is there
anything else I would need to avoid requesting? Neck bones too thick?

Does anyone have this relationship with a local source of grassfed
beef and free-range poultry? How much per pound would be a reasonable
price (the turkeys are being offered as a Thanksgiving purchase for
$4/lb with an average size of 16 lbs - I may just splurge and get one
for the freezer, but this gives me some sense of price at least for
the poultry products)?

Thank you in advance,
Kerry

Messages in this topic (1)
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12a. Re: Standard Poodle Puppy 9weeks
Posted by: "Alan & Andrea Southern" wykham@sa.chariot.net.au seawyndriana
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:06 pm ((PDT))

We have raised 4 litters of Standard Poodles on chicken frames, with hearts livers etc attached,wings,lamb flaps,tongues and hearts. The litter we have now will be getting turkey as well as we can buy it locally for .80 cents a kg.
We usually feed pups several times a day with as much as they want.

Alan & Andrea
KITNKABOODLE BURMESE
WYKHAM BRITISH SHORTHAIR
QUINIVA STANDARD POODLES
http://users.chariot.net.au/~wykham
Aldinga Beach
South Australia
Australia

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13a. Chicken & Parts is Parts
Posted by: "mob1043" ynotbeastar@marykay.com mob1043
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:07 pm ((PDT))

Hi all:

After some sound wisdom & much respected advice as I am a raw feed "V", I am going with all
chicken for the week.

Can I say it is safe to feed all parts of a chicken in chicken week? I bought feet, legs,
gizzards and all the trimmins.

Michele

By the way is it true that the raw egg helps with the coat and its dryness? My gf asked me
this morning and I told her I would put it out there for the pros.

Messages in this topic (2)
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13b. Re: Chicken & Parts is Parts
Posted by: "magolin0328" maggie.taylor@artlover.com magolin0328
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:35 pm ((PDT))

Here's how I feed a chicken:

Buy whole chicken. Remove the little bag of innards, open it, dump
them back into the chicken (sometimes I add a few purchased separately
depending what was actually in the bag), put chicken in dog's pan,
give to dog, let him eat what he wants, put away for next meal.

Eggs and some extra fish oil supplements seemed to help Diesel's dry
skin this winter. That and feeding him a lot of fatty meats like pork
(no, the muscle isn't fatty, but the cuts I got have a lot of skin and
fat on them).

Maggie
Diesel, SDIT

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14a. are the chickens at risk???
Posted by: "carolyn arnold" celebrationcookies@yahoo.com celebrationcookies
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:12 pm ((PDT))

I just tallked with my friend who raises gsd in Minnesota. I have been telling her about my raising my gsd on raw. She said (from one who lives on an acreage) that once dogs get the taste of blood the chickens on the acreage are history. What do you say about dogs being fed raw then attacking other animals because they have then the taste of blood??? Thanks, Carolyn

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14b. Re: are the chickens at risk???
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:46 pm ((PDT))

On Jun 29, 2007, at 7:01 PM, carolyn arnold wrote:

> I just tallked with my friend who raises gsd in Minnesota. I have
> been telling her about my raising my gsd on raw. She said (from
> one who lives on an acreage) that once dogs get the taste of blood
> the chickens on the acreage are history. What do you say about
> dogs being fed raw then attacking other animals because they have
> then the taste of blood??? Thanks, Carolyn

My dog can eat HIS chicken in front of MY chickens without anyone
getting up about it. He never bothers them, and shows no interest in
them even when I have to kill one. The chickens, OTOH, will run and
hide if a strange dog comes into the yard. It's entirely a matter of
innate prey drive, which may or may not be a product of chronic
disease if over the top.

We humans can eat raw without getting the urge to kill, after all.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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15. Help Please: Stool Composition
Posted by: "cepriz" cfpriznar@aol.com cepriz
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:15 pm ((PDT))

++++Mod note: please make sure all emails are signed. ++++++++++++

We feed our dog raw and mix up the amount of meat and bone; try for a
variety of meats, organ, eggs. He recently deposited stools in the
house; with nuggets of waste, and almost a spray of black oily drops
beyond stool deposit. Any suggestions?

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16a. Support for criticism
Posted by: "teampoodle" teampoodle@yahoo.com teampoodle
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:20 pm ((PDT))

My dogs are all on raw and absolutely loving it! They get so ecxited
for dinner, and just sniffing while I prepare it to try and see what
they are getting that day. My problem is that I live with my mom, and
while she is fine with my feeing all of our dogs raw, she is disgusted
by it. Everyday is "eww they are eating that on my floor!", or "can
they really eat that bone?" the floor is hard wood, which is cleaned
all the time, and for the standard is a door mat carpet that is washed
quite often. the bones are all eaten outside. Anyway, what are some
good responses to these? she is convinved that they will die of bone
shards, not that any of them scarf food or anything, and that these
meats are all riddled with diseases and will leave us all with deadly
diseases after being eaten on her floor. I feed them outside when its
nice, but I just cant stand out there in the rain! any good
suggestions?
~Kristin and the poodles~

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16b. Re: Support for criticism
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:41 pm ((PDT))

Hi Kristin,

Can you have a direct conversation, such as..."Mom, I know this is a
change, and it might seem gross at first. I understand you have some
(concerns? issues? adjusting to do?). If you let me know exactly
what concerns or questions you have, I will try to accomodate you. I
will (feed them on a towel or shower curtain, or find you some
information on how the bacteria isn't an issue, or try to feed them
when you aren't home, or...???). But this is really important to me,
and I would appreciate it if you would not make negative comments
anymore. Can we just see how it goes for awhile? The dogs are
loving it and doing well. I think you will see that everything will
be fine. If you really don't like watching, you can always go in the
other room." You could also show her some web sites or print out
some posts from this list if there's anything specific she wants you
to address. And you could let her know there are over 9000 members
feeding raw on this list alone!

Good luck,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "teampoodle" <teampoodle@...>
wrote:
>
> My dogs are all on raw and absolutely loving it! They get so
ecxited
> for dinner, and just sniffing while I prepare it to try and see
what
> they are getting that day. My problem is that I live with my mom,
and
> while she is fine with my feeing all of our dogs raw, she is
disgusted
> by it.

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

16c. Re: Support for criticism
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm ((PDT))

On Jun 29, 2007, at 7:17 PM, teampoodle wrote:

> My dogs are all on raw and absolutely loving it! They get so ecxited
> for dinner, and just sniffing while I prepare it to try and see what
> they are getting that day. My problem is that I live with my mom, and
> while she is fine with my feeing all of our dogs raw, she is disgusted
> by it. Everyday is "eww they are eating that on my floor!", or "can
> they really eat that bone?" the floor is hard wood, which is cleaned
> all the time, and for the standard is a door mat carpet that is washed
> quite often. the bones are all eaten outside. Anyway, what are some
> good responses to these? she is convinved that they will die of bone
> shards, not that any of them scarf food or anything, and that these
> meats are all riddled with diseases and will leave us all with deadly
> diseases after being eaten on her floor. I feed them outside when its
> nice, but I just cant stand out there in the rain! any good
> suggestions?
> ~Kristin and the poodles~

Keep doing what you're doing, and stand out in the rain if you must.
Tell her she should be glad you don't have boa constrictors and
pythons, and that the wolves don't have kibble trees. Ask her what
sort of germs are on the shoes she wears around on the "filthy"
floor. Ask her to leave the room while you feed your dogs what they
are supposed to eat.

She'll calm down eventually.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

17a. Re: Kidney and heart
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:28 pm ((PDT))

"raffiangel2" <snazgal@...> wrote:
>>anyway
> how much kidney and heart is adviseable to serve? will it act like
> meat without bone and cause some loose poops??
*****
Yes, you betcha it will.
Given the hours that have passed, I suspect you've forged ahead and
done whatever you were gonna, and will find out for yourself the
results thereof. In case you erred on the side of caution and fed
something else, I recommend you do not feed generous amounts of
either meat until your dogs have had plenty of opportunity to get to
know the food. Perhaps heart may be marginally more kind than
kidney, but I would not classify either as "safe" to be fed freely.

OTOH, the worst that's likely to happen is black squirty stools, and
if your dogs are outside when the moment strikes them, then no harm
no foul. If they'll be indoors, they may not give you adequate
advance warning.

If so, I'll just make
> the rest of the meal higher in bone...
*****
Long term, there's no nutritional difficulty at all with feeding
seriously meaty meals. The issue is "only" that such meals may be
more than the dog's digestive system has figured out how to handle.
With time, feeding heart or kidney to bowel tolerance can entail
quite large meals, but that's a "down the pike" goal for most dogs.
(Though a few have been known to eat large quantities of either
without ill effect, right from day one.)

I have no doubt that your being home will be more of a treat to them
than any food can be. Don't sell yourself short!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11741

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Constipated dog?
From: chele519
1b. Re: Constipated dog?
From: costrowski75

2a. Standard Poodle Puppy 9weeks
From: boyleygod
2b. Re: Standard Poodle Puppy 9weeks
From: costrowski75
2c. Re: Standard Poodle Puppy 9weeks
From: goinggone99

3. Re: starting out
From: Michael Moore

4a. Re: diabetes insipidus
From: Giselle
4b. Re: diabetes insipidus
From: cypressbunny
4c. Re: diabetes insipidus
From: tobyfwest
4d. Re: diabetes insipidus
From: tobyfwest

5a. Starting out
From: Cris Milam

6a. Re: This is funny! Freecycle reply
From: john payne
6b. ADMIN/Re: This is funny! Freecycle reply
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Newbie Here
From: mob1043
7b. Re: Newbie Here
From: mob1043

8a. RMB's during a pregnancy
From: Perri Eskew
8b. Re: RMB's during a pregnancy
From: Tina Berry
8c. Re: RMB's during a pregnancy
From: cypressbunny
8d. Re: RMB's during a pregnancy
From: Laura Atkinson
8e. Re: RMB's during a pregnancy
From: Perri Eskew

9.1. Re: Eating grass
From: Evie
9.2. Re: Eating grass
From: pitbullanholder

10. Trouble with my Mom's Schnauzer
From: Liz

11.1. Re: itchy dog
From: Laurie

12. Kidney and heart
From: raffiangel2

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: Constipated dog?
Posted by: "chele519" chele519@yahoo.com chele519
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:41 am ((PDT))

Thanks Chris. That's what I thought but wanted another opinion. I have
been giving her a little extra liver but I also don't want any
accidents while I'm gone so she's staying in the crate til she goes.
Michele

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> Yes, I agree. What you had fed previously doesn't strike me as
> particularly bony. Your dramatic reduction of exercise is probably
> at the root of her digestive inactivity. That's a big lifestyle
> change!

> Yes. I'm not sure it's even constipation since she has shown no
> restlessness or unsuccessful squatting. Get her back to her usual
> regimen and see what happens. At that point if she is straining, you
> might want to lube her tubes with more salmon oil or liver.

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Constipated dog?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:11 am ((PDT))

"chele519" <chele519@...> wrote:
I have
> been giving her a little extra liver but I also don't want any
> accidents while I'm gone so she's staying in the crate til she goes.
*****
Um, this makes no sense.
You are giving her extra liver which you know to be a potential
contributor to loose stools yet you continue to crate her, which for a
housetrained dog is a clear indication to NOT POOP.

IMO this set-up further encourages constipation through restriction of
movement, and of course if she cannot hold it she will foul her crate
which would not be appreciated by either of you. Can you somehow
provide her more room?

Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Standard Poodle Puppy 9weeks
Posted by: "boyleygod" franvesey@aol.com boyleygod
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:42 am ((PDT))

Hi, I have just joined today and would like advise on raw feeding my
new pup. She has been reared on raw minced beef and wheetabix with
goats milk - two meals of each a day. Today I gave her a raw chicken
drumstick which she demolished very quickly leaving only a tiny piece
of bone - is this OK? A couple of friends seem to think its dangerous.
I have also tried her on very lightly steamed cod today and she doesn't
want to know.
All comments gratefully received.

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Standard Poodle Puppy 9weeks
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:03 am ((PDT))

"boyleygod" <franvesey@...> wrote:
>She has been reared on raw minced beef and wheetabix with
> goats milk - two meals of each a day. Today I gave her a raw chicken
> drumstick which she demolished very quickly leaving only a tiny piece
> of bone - is this OK?
*****
What's dangerous to your pup is mince and wheetabix and goat milk.
She's old enough to be eating real whole food now, and wheetabix was
never and never will be healthy for her. Please discontinue wheetabix
right away. Neither is dairy useful. Time to provide nutrition from
appropriate sources.

A chicken drum stick is an appropriate source. Demolishing it quickly
is a sure sign that your puppy is ready for real food. I suspect your
friends are not familiar with or comfortable with feeding a species
appropriate diet. Well, you can teach them as you learn.

I recommend you join Yahoogroups so you can access the Rawfeeding list
message archives. This will provide you with hours of reading and tons
of information on feeding puppies.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

Also check out http://rawfed.com and pay close attention to the Myth
section.

You may also wish to subscribe to RawPup
Post message: RawPup@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: RawPup-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: RawPup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

> I have also tried her on very lightly steamed cod today and she
doesn't
> want to know.
*****
Fish is often an acquired taste. I suggest you not take her disdain
seriously, but rather focus on chicken, lamb, beef, pork, rabbit and
perhaps stinkier fish like salmon, herring, anchovy or mackerel. Cod
at best is pretty bland.

And when you do feed fish--if you do--please feed them raw, not cooked.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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2c. Re: Standard Poodle Puppy 9weeks
Posted by: "goinggone99" goinggone99@yahoo.com goinggone99
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:15 am ((PDT))

Hello :) I got my latest pup at about 8 weeks.

First stop feeding wheetaix. Dogs don't needs grains/carbs. If what
you are feeding had a face at one time, you can feed it to your puppy.

Do not cook your dog's food at all, especially if there is bone
present. Cooking alters the makeup of otherwise digestible bone,
making it dangerous to feed. Raw bones = safe. Cooked = unsafe. It
doesn't matter if the food was lightly steamed. Please don't take any
chances.

You should also stop offering minced anything. Bones are nature's
toothbrushes for dogs as well as a calcium source. The only thing I
feed minced is organ meat. My older dog hates organs and this is the
only way he'll eat them. Puppies are easy to offer organs to. Their
exposure to raw anything is limited because of their age. Older dogs
usually have been exposed to kibble, making organ feeding more
difficult. The squishiness factor is also a turnoff for many adult
dogs who are started on raw at later age.

Make sure to feed a little bit of organ matter, such as livers and
kidneys. They are full of vitamins and minerals. Once a week is a
good enough frequency. They can be of any animal.

At first I did the math thing: .02 * expected adult weight. My puppy
would throw up if she was allowed to eat too much. I think at that
age (2 months), the whole self-regulating thing is not quite there
yet. Now that she is 5 months old, I let her eat as she pleases.
Yesterday I gave both my dogs, the other being 3 years old, a whole
picnic roast each. They ate until they were satisfied. The rest of
the roasts went back into the fridge to feed later today.

It's OK for some food to be left over. As long as you provide enough,
that is fine.

I thought bones were dangerous too. Just make sure to monitor the
feedings. Watch TV or tidy up something, but stay nearby. Remember,
dogs can also puke up and choke on commercial dry food. Always monitor!

Jamie Hinton

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3. Re: starting out
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:48 am ((PDT))

>>I have been feeding her on raw meat..Beef.chicken, chicken necks,bones with a little fat on them along with cooked vegies with rice and pasta.and dry food.<<

Joan -- you're going to hear from lots of folks, I'm sure. This list supports a more natural way of feeding, as wolves (I'm sure you know that our dogs are simply "house wolves" by DNA), so they have no need for veggies of any ilk. Ditto the rice and pasta. Dry food? Do you mean kibble? Most kibbles are grain-based, for which, again, dogs have no need.

>>I have bred and shown dogs for a few years and they also have been eating this diet including canned mackeral and sardines with no problems at all.odour.<<

I've bred and shown dogs for over 30 yrs., and thankfully, I found my deductive reasoning powers some 6 yrs. ago, and switched my dogs to prey model rawfeeding. I *do* occasionally feed canned mackeral, but it's rare. The diet of my dogs is based on meat, more meat, a little bone (with meat attached), some organs (beef heart, kidney, liver from various critters), and more meat. I do give eggs, raw, of course. I think you will find that while your dogs survive and appear to "do well" on this diet, their health would be much, much improved on a species appropriate raw diet. That means no kibble, grains, veggies, etc -- just meat, bones, and organs. That, truly, is what Nature intends dogs to eat. The further we stray from Nature's plan, the less worse our dogs' health will be in the long (and often, short) term.
This list is well stocked with information from folks who have fed raw much longer than I, and are well educated. You can learn a great deal here. I think that if Chase the Greyhound were my dog, I'd remove everything from her diet except one protein source (ie chicken *or* beef), start her simply and keep it at that for a couple of weeks, then slowly move on to other proteins, organs, etc.

>>What I would like to know is how to switch her over to the raw feeding,do I do it at once or wean her into it, can she have eggs cheese etc.<<

See above for my comments. BTW, I use cheese sometimes as training treats; they do not form any significant part of my dogs' diet, as they are, again, species inappropriate.

Good luck -- everyone here will help you as much as possible! We all have the true good health of dogs (ours and yours) at heart.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: diabetes insipidus
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:53 am ((PDT))

Hi, Carolyn!
Um, its possible that your friend was confused with the info the vet
gave her on her dog's diagnosis. There is NO CURE, for Diabetes
Insipidus, there ARE TREATMENTS!
With a casual Google search, I turned up the info below, from this
link;
http://www.howtodothings.com/pets-and-animals/a3356-how-to-treat-canine-diabetes.html
http://tinyurl.com/35zs6e
quoted from the text-
"The second form of Canine Diabetes is Canine Diabetes Insipidus. This
rare disease is either Central Diabetes Insipidus or Nephrogenic
Diabetes Isipidus.

Central Diabetes Insipidus occurs when the pituitary gland does not
secrete enough vasopressine, an anti-diuretic hormone (ADH).

The most common causes include:

1. Congenital defect
2. Trauma or disease of the pituitary or hypothalamus

Nephrogenic Diabetes Insipidus occurs when the kidneys do not respond
to the ADH produced by the pituitary gland.The most common causes include:

1. A congenital defect
2. Prescribed drugs
3. Trauma or disease of the kidney

Symptoms of Canine Diabetes Insipidus are:

1. The dog has an increased thirst and urinates more.
2. The dog may not drink more, but may urinate more.
3. The dog's increased urination will likely be diluted and clear.

Diagnoses of Canine Diabetes Insipidus include:

1. Testing to exclude Cushing's disease, diabetes mellitus, renal
failure, liver disease, pyomera or other disorders
2. The dog may be given a sonogram to look at the pituitary gland

Treatment of Diabetes Insipidus includes:

1. Central Diabetes Insipidus is treated using desmopressin, also
known as DDAVP. This medication can be given as eye drops, nose drops,
or injected subcutaneously.
2. Nephrogenic Diabetes Insipidus is treated with prescribed
medications such as thiazide diuretics, chlorothiazide,
chloropropamide and nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. Salt is also
restricted."
more links; http://www.petdiabetes.org/diabetes_insipidus.htm
http://www.mirage-samoyeds.com/diabetes2.htm
http://www.vetinfo.com/dencyclopedia/dedibetinsp.html

If the vet did not do any testing to rule out other causes of this
dog's symptoms, provide treatment, and provide your friend with
written materials with explicit instructions and information on this
disease, he's sadly, maybe criminally, deficient.
HTH
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I have a kibble feeding friend with a Sheltie that was just diagnosed
> with diabetes insipidus - the kind that there is no treatment for. Her
> vet has of course told her that there is no point in switching diets
> because nothing will help. I sent her a link to the K9kidneydiet list
> but since she doesn't think that a change in diet will help I doubt
> she'll even explore the possibility that it will (I have no idea what
> diets that list recommends but it's a start at least).
>
> Is there anyone on this list that has a dog with this condition and did
> you switch to a raw diet and see a difference?
>
> I've searched the archives and didn't find much other than "my dog
> might have it".
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Carolyn
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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4b. Re: diabetes insipidus
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:03 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tobyfwest" <tobyfwest@...> wrote:
>
> Her
> vet has of course told her that there is no point in switching diets
> because nothing will help.

*** We should all just roll over die right now. Why even try? Sheesh,
what an attitude.

> but since she doesn't think that a change in diet will help I doubt
> she'll even explore the possibility that it will

*** With an attitude like that the poor dog doesn't have a chance.
Switching to raw gives the dog the very best nutritional basis from
which to fight. It can never hurt to try, can it? And there is
treatment for the disease, I suggest she switch to raw and get a
second opinion. Diabetes insipidus is kind of hard to diagnose for
sure--sound more like her vet is a pessimist who always thinks the
worst, and perhaps that's rubbed off on your friend as well.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (8)
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4c. Re: diabetes insipidus
Posted by: "tobyfwest" tobyfwest@cox.net tobyfwest
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:33 am ((PDT))

Thanks for the link. I sent it to my friend. She didn't say the vet
offered any treatment at all. In fact, after 3 days at the vet the dog
is in pretty bad shape - worse then when she went in. I find it
strange that this not-to-common form of diabetes came on this suddenly
and caused the dog to go downhill so fast.

I have no doubt that this vet is probably incompetent. However, it's
hard to get this friend to listen to any advice...she knows it all and
will take this vets word as gospel. In most circumstances I need to
just shut my mouth with her but this is serious so I'd at least like to
try.

Carolyn

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Carolyn!
> Um, its possible that your friend was confused with the info the vet
> gave her on her dog's diagnosis. There is NO CURE, for Diabetes
> Insipidus, there ARE TREATMENTS!
> With a casual Google search, I turned up the info below, from this
> link;
> http://www.howtodothings.com/pets-and-animals/a3356-how-to-treat-
canine-diabetes.html
> http://tinyurl.com/35zs6e
>

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

4d. Re: diabetes insipidus
Posted by: "tobyfwest" tobyfwest@cox.net tobyfwest
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:33 am ((PDT))

I'm trying at least to get her to see that there are some options and
I think a raw diet would be a good place to start. My friend is not
so much a pessimist but one of those people who blindly follow what a
vet tells them (I'm the total opposite and I'm trying to tread
carefully with her).

Carolyn

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cypressbunny" <cypressbunny@...>
wrote:
> *** With an attitude like that the poor dog doesn't have a chance.
> Switching to raw gives the dog the very best nutritional basis from
> which to fight. It can never hurt to try, can it? And there is
> treatment for the disease, I suggest she switch to raw and get a
> second opinion. Diabetes insipidus is kind of hard to diagnose for
> sure--sound more like her vet is a pessimist who always thinks the
> worst, and perhaps that's rubbed off on your friend as well.
>
> --Carrie
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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________________________________________________________________________

5a. Starting out
Posted by: "Cris Milam" cmilam@comcast.net cris_milam
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:58 am ((PDT))

Welcome Joan,

You will find that there are lots of fellow greyhound owners on the list.
We have the best dogs in the world! Of course, it is fine with me if
everybody else also has the best dog in the world because every dog should
be.

Chase sounds to me like she has either an allergy or a mild dietetic
deficiency or both. As you are finding out, greys can be a bit different
than other dogs. Without subcutaneous fat to store the nasties, toxins and
allergens continue to circulate in a grey's bloodstream and can create more
problems than other breeds have.

You could try giving Chase a dose of Benedryl just to see if the problem is
an allergic reaction. If she gets better, it is time to get rid of the
allergen. If she has no change, a visit to the vet might be in order.
Please note that I am not suggesting you put Chase on more that one dose of
Benedryl; it is only for diagnostic purposes.

The easiest thing you can do is to go ahead and move her to a full raw diet
that has only one protein in it. Please ditch the veggies, rice, pasta and
dry food. She doesn't need them and they can cause havoc with an allergic
dog. I know she has been eating a variety of meats, but by feeding one at a
time you can find out if she has an allergy to one of them. She probably
doesn't, but being systematic from the beginning will keep you from having
to backtrack later if something comes up. You can begin immediately.

If you are feeding chicken you could feed eggs, but I would wait on the eggs
just because of possible intestinal upset. The cheese should be dropped.
She may be allergic to dairy even in small amounts. If you are using it in
small amounts as a training treat, you could reintroduce it later and find
out then if it is causing a problem.

As for the dietetic deficiency..... Well, before I knew better, my first
grey was kibble fed and daily doses of Missing Link were needed to keep
similar symptoms to Chase's at bay. My second grey is raw fed, and the
Missing Link is just taking up precious freezer space!

Hope to hear more form you and Chase.

Cris M and Duncan

Messages in this topic (17)
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6a. Re: This is funny! Freecycle reply
Posted by: "john payne" brendajohn2823@yahoo.com brendajohn2823
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:30 am ((PDT))

nope, this place uses everything they have..they make a ground dog food with the scraps. I dont buy it, but the lady across the street does for her little dogs.

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, john payne <brendajohn2823@...>
wrote:
>
> i was @ the butchers one day talking to the lady who worked there,
that had just switched her dog to raw( after coaching from me).

I would think that the last people on earth you want to convince to
switch their dogs is the butcher or butcher employees. There goes a
good source of free or cheap meat. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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6b. ADMIN/Re: This is funny! Freecycle reply
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:44 am ((PDT))

Okay, I think we've gotten as much chuckle out of Freecycle as we're
going to. Please move this thread to RawChat. Further postings to
rawfeeding on this topic are ill-advised.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: Newbie Here
Posted by: "mob1043" ynotbeastar@marykay.com mob1043
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:31 am ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mob1043" <ynotbeastar@> wrote:
>
> > (it was our first raw feed) They had beef feet, lamb kidney,
> > chicken leg and a raw egg.
>
> Woah, umm....that's kind of a lot of variety for meal number one,
> don't be upset or worried if they have digestive upsets today, ok? I
> would say that with the kidney and egg you might be seeing some,
> well, less than solid stools, and you might be treated to some room
> clearing farts. (=
>
> Then again, some dogs have cast iron stomachs right out of the gate.
> If yours do seem to feel off today, you might want to ease up on the
> variety for a little while. Just chicken for a week with the organs
> that come inside the cavity. After they are good with that, you can
> add in egg and other stuff. As it is, my boys can only really
> tolerate one egg a day, and it always makes them gassy. It's like
> having a potpourri that smells like sulfur!
>
> With your picky bichon, it might take a day or two really get that
> you are feeding him food. Don't bother mixing the raw with ki**le
> more than once or twice, that's all he needs to understand that it's
> food. You don't want to encourage picky eating.
>
> Hope your day goes well today!
>
> Andrea
>

LOL - yeah they have had those gas problems in the past. Thank you for your advice.

They are running around like crazy today and don't seem to be upset, but I will definitely
follow your advice of one protein for the week.

This morning, prior to reading your post, I gave them all beef tongue. I laughed at the fact
they were "stealing" from one anothers bowls, that is something that never happened
before.

Again, I showed the bichon the tiny pieces of tongue he licked it and looked at me like he
thought I had gone mad, but he will adjust.

Thank you again.

Michele

Messages in this topic (8)
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7b. Re: Newbie Here
Posted by: "mob1043" ynotbeastar@marykay.com mob1043
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:31 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kimberlykay1119" <kimberlykay119@...> wrote:
>
> Michele - Do your dogs have loose stools this morning? :) Usually it
> is best to start with one protein source, most often it is chicken,
> and slowly add in the others. Beef can be very rich depending on the
> dog and organs the first day may give the runs. We raw fed for 2
> weeks before introducing about 2 ounces of organ meat and I have 75 lb
> dogs. FWIW
> Kimberly
>
> I think that is just about what I gave them tonight
> > (it was our first raw feed) They had beef feet, lamb kidney, chicken
> > leg and a raw egg.
>
Hi Kimberly.

After reading the posts re my variety, I will keep a close look on them to see how they are
doing with their stools.

I have not noticed any upset in them as of yet, but the large dogs are the ones that seem
to get loose with any variance on their diets. They are very active today and not lethargic
like they don't feel well, perhaps I will get lucky this time. I will definitely do the chicken
for the week.

Thank you for your input.

Michele

Messages in this topic (8)
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8a. RMB's during a pregnancy
Posted by: "Perri Eskew" pdsq@sbcglobal.net sqbullys3
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:33 am ((PDT))

Hi group,
I am fairly new to the list and to raw feeding. I have a Bulldog that
is 2 weeks into her pregnancy. I have been hearing a lot about too
much calcium during pregnancy... my question is if she is already
eating a RMB diet do I stop feeding Bones or just no extra calcium?
I would appreciate any help on this.
Perri

Messages in this topic (5)
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8b. Re: RMB's during a pregnancy
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:14 am ((PDT))

"I have a Bulldog that is 2 weeks into her pregnancy."

No, no changes, keep feeding 90% meat, 10% bone. Towards the end she will
most likely crave organs and refuse bone, this is to soften her stools prior
to whelping. They know what to eat/not eat.
--
Tina Berry
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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8c. Re: RMB's during a pregnancy
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:29 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tina Berry" <k9baron@...> wrote:
>
> "I have a Bulldog that is 2 weeks into her pregnancy."
>
> Towards the end she will
> most likely crave organs and refuse bone, this is to soften her
stools prior
> to whelping. They know what to eat/not eat.

*** Usually they do. The last couple of weeks is the most important
time not to feed excess calcium, and if the bitch voluntarily
refuses bone during this time that's fine. Not only will that soften
stools a bit, but will also make sure the complex processes that
govern calcium deposition and uptake are in good working order. The
body is designed to store calcium in the bones when the diet has
plenty, and pull calcium from bones when the diet is deficient. Only
when there is an excess of calcium over a period of time will the
process downregulate. It is no big deal for most dogs, but increases
the chances of eclampsia in the whelping and nursing bitch.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (5)
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8d. Re: RMB's during a pregnancy
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:35 am ((PDT))

It also increases the chances of uterine inertia (weak or no
contractions) since calcium levels affect muscle contractibility.

On 6/29/07, cypressbunny <cypressbunny@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *** Usually they do. The last couple of weeks is the most important
> time not to feed excess calcium, and if the bitch voluntarily
> refuses bone during this time that's fine. Not only will that soften
> stools a bit, but will also make sure the complex processes that
> govern calcium deposition and uptake are in good working order. The
> body is designed to store calcium in the bones when the diet has
> plenty, and pull calcium from bones when the diet is deficient. Only
> when there is an excess of calcium over a period of time will the
> process downregulate. It is no big deal for most dogs, but increases
> the chances of eclampsia in the whelping and nursing bitch.
>
> --Carrie

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.saveourdogs.net
"Is that soap they're brainwashing you with environmentally safe?"

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

8e. Re: RMB's during a pregnancy
Posted by: "Perri Eskew" pdsq@sbcglobal.net sqbullys3
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:22 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...>
wrote:
>
> It also increases the chances of uterine inertia (weak or no
> contractions) since calcium levels affect muscle contractibility.
>
> On 6/29/07, cypressbunny <cypressbunny@...> wrote:
>
> > *** Usually they do. The last couple of weeks is the most
important
> > time not to feed excess calcium, and if the bitch voluntarily
> > refuses bone during this time that's fine. Not only will that
soften
> > stools a bit, but will also make sure the complex processes that
> > govern calcium deposition and uptake are in good working order.
The
> > body is designed to store calcium in the bones when the diet has
> > plenty, and pull calcium from bones when the diet is deficient.
Only
> > when there is an excess of calcium over a period of time will the
> > process downregulate. It is no big deal for most dogs, but
increases
> > the chances of eclampsia in the whelping and nursing bitch.
> >
> > --Carrie
>
>
> --
> Laura A
> Kaos Siberians http://www.saveourdogs.net
> "Is that soap they're brainwashing you with environmentally safe?"
>I want to Thank everyone that responded to my post.
I will continue to feed the way I am feeding until the last part of
her pregnancy and then will cut back the bone.
This has really helped.

Messages in this topic (5)
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9.1. Re: Eating grass
Posted by: "Evie" archie.willow@yahoo.co.uk archie.willow
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:34 am ((PDT))

Idle curiosity has me pondering dogs eating grass.
When I first got my Lurcher she was on crappy tinned dog food. I
canged her over to one of the holistic kibbles. She went through a
kind of a detox for about two months, the whole time she grazed and
grazed. Then, as her coat, general health etc improved, the grass
eating stopped. Haven't seen her do it since.... Untill I changed her
over to raw.

She's been having raw for about a month now and is always grazing when
she's out for her offlead time (inbetween racing around). I'm guessing
this will calm down eventually.

Just wanted to post this since the timing of her grazing seems to be
linked with changes to better quality food. Conicidence, maybe. But I
do't feel that's so. Just some food for thought. (Excuse the pun!)

Evie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "chele519" <chele519@...> wrote:
>
> One of my dogs is always eating grass. She stands at the fence and
> munches it like a cow. She doesn't throw up after eating it so I
don't
> think it is for that reason. Just wondering why she does this so much
> if they have no need for veggies.
> Michele
>

Messages in this topic (38)
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9.2. Re: Eating grass
Posted by: "pitbullanholder" pitbullanholder@yahoo.com pitbullanholder
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:13 am ((PDT))

Evie,
I have noticed the same with my furkids...they were eating a
relatively middle of the line kibble and grass grazing was part of our
outdoor time...changed them to a high quality kibble it seemed to
stop. Started on raw about 3 weeks ago and had grazing for about the
first 2 weeks and now it seems to be slowing down.

Angela

Messages in this topic (38)
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10. Trouble with my Mom's Schnauzer
Posted by: "Liz" tvliz24@izoom.net liztv2456
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:22 pm ((PDT))

I started my Mom's dog on raw feeding when I was babysitting him for
3 weeks. (About 2 months ago)

After she brought him home she continued with the cornish game hen
sections and some chicken liver. She said he would hesitate and not
eat, then she had to sear it before he would eat. Lots of coaxing.

She said he started getting runny poop (carmel colored liquidy) and
she switched him to cooked hamburger and chicken breasts (without me
knowing this) and he would eat that. He had kibble available to
nibble, but didn't eat much of that.

He has gotten thin and is vommiting. He eats lots of grass and
vomits.

They are staying with me right now for a few days and we need some
advice. He only wants to eat cooked food.

Any suggestions would be helpful. He's a mini schnauzer, 10 years
old, about 25 lbs. (he was 32 lbs before I swithched his diet, 29
lbs. after 3 weeks with me, and now he is less)

Thanks,
Liz T
MN

Messages in this topic (1)
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11.1. Re: itchy dog
Posted by: "Laurie" lhsearch1@verizon.net lauriescritters
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:22 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>

> Um, exactly what are you feeding, how much and when?

I generally feed her chicken parts, pork, fish (weekly), small amounts
of liver, kidney, heart, occasionally egg. She eats late in the
afternoon daily. We have no new carpet or other changes in the house;
she's been itchy since she was a pup and is now 5 1/2 yrs. old. It's
all year long, not seasonal. Thanks in advance for your help!

Laurie

Messages in this topic (28)
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12. Kidney and heart
Posted by: "raffiangel2" snazgal@aol.com raffiangel2
Date: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:22 pm ((PDT))

What would I do without this group? I'm so thankful...
I don't post much, because I generally get all my ?'s answered by all
of you...but I have one now.
I just bought 6 beef hearts and 6 beef kidneys....the hearts are normal
size but I was shocked at the size of the kidneys!!! I've never bought
kidney before nor served it...anyway
how much kidney and heart is adviseable to serve? will it act like
meat without bone and cause some loose poops?? If so, I'll just make
the rest of the meal higher in bone...
Suggestions please?
I just got home from a business trip and want a super nice dinner for
my babies..who were with a wonderful sitter while I was away...darn I
missed them....can't wait till I get them later and soften my guilt for
leaving them by giving them a special meal lol

Thanks for the help and suggestions

Phyllis in South Florida

Messages in this topic (1)
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Re: [rawfeeding] Re: RMB's during a pregnancy

It also increases the chances of uterine inertia (weak or no
contractions) since calcium levels affect muscle contractibility.

On 6/29/07, cypressbunny <cypressbunny@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *** Usually they do. The last couple of weeks is the most important
> time not to feed excess calcium, and if the bitch voluntarily
> refuses bone during this time that's fine. Not only will that soften
> stools a bit, but will also make sure the complex processes that
> govern calcium deposition and uptake are in good working order. The
> body is designed to store calcium in the bones when the diet has
> plenty, and pull calcium from bones when the diet is deficient. Only
> when there is an excess of calcium over a period of time will the
> process downregulate. It is no big deal for most dogs, but increases
> the chances of eclampsia in the whelping and nursing bitch.
>
> --Carrie

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.saveourdogs.net
"Is that soap they're brainwashing you with environmentally safe?"

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

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<*> Your email settings:
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<*> To change settings online go to:

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